Aeiga
Aeiga
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- Aeiga
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950881#Comment_3950881
survivors can emote to stop you from grabbing, yeah, it's really stupid and i hope it gets fixed tomorrow.
That’s also true actually!
I forgot about that one, in most cases the grab just doesn’t trigger sometimes when I press the action to trigger it (I’d have to pull a clip as an example in a match to show what I mean) because in some cases I’ll hit a survivor with an axe even at a close distance and close in pretty quickly but the moment I press the grab prompt the moment it shows up you will visibly see springtrap stop for just a second and then keep moving as normal.
I do hope the vast majority of his bugs get ironed out (including the invisibility bug) but I’ve still been enjoying him in spite of the bugs that are rampant around him.
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Honestly, the only issue I have with the grab is that sometimes when given the prompt to initiate the grab sometimes the game will reject the grab, causing you to pause your movement and prevents you for swinging for a second which has caused me to not get a survivor because they just manage to reach a pallet or window in time, it’s a bug but I’m not sure how to consistently get it to trigger in order for me to explain how the devs can fix it but if you have tried going for axe grabs often then I’m almost certain you have ran into this bug every once in a while.
Sometimes to stop it from bugging out (if I can) I try to get almost as close to the survivor before trying to start the animation but that kind of defeats the purpose when you could have already lunged at them from that point and already saved time by immediately picking up, nonetheless I hope the grab bug gets fixed so you can consistently get a grab from the intended distance that was given.
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@danielmaster87 said:
All of his abilities are garbage. I feel completely powerless playing as him. His mage hand especially. You lift/hold the pallet to get them, but the delay especially in lifting the pallet is so much, they just get around anyway. Even without the magic boots. Even with the Haste add-on for mage hand. I legitimately don't understand how people get survivors at loops thanks to mage hand. It feels similar to Wesker or Kaneki vaulting over stuff, where it doesn't actually advance your position in relation to the survivors. It's kind of just breaking even on distance.
His skeletons I think are his best. But unless the survivors let you point-blank skeleton hit them, that ability doesn't do anything either.
Fly is cool for mobility, but I feel it's not actually as much distance as the sound/visual effect would have you believe. Feels kind of deceptive. And we could have had it to where he could fly through survivors to block them, like Ghoul can do now, but no. The devs changed that so that you can't even get around body blocking survivors. And you can vault windows with it, but it then insta-cancels, and the survivors can vault through you most of the time. The cooldown of coming out of his fly, in any event, just lets the survivors get away. It's why people call Ghoul's cooldowns OP, because they're used to killers being basically immobile for multiple seconds after using their mobility move.
His orb/sphere is alright, but all it's there to do is counter the stupid magic items, which in turn has its own counter as one of the items. Magic items give survivors a completely unnecessary advantage vs this killer. I get that it was put in to keep his power in check, but after his nerfs, they basically serve no purpose but to make him more bullyable. I hate this concept of items given to the survivors that are free counterplay to the killer's power, like Singularity and Xenomorph.
So what you've got is a killer who can do all these flashy things, but is absolutely toothless. The fact that he has multiple abilities doesn't make him stronger than the average killer, and that should be shocking. Imagine Doctor with like 2-3 other abilities. He'd probably be a threat. But this guy, Vecna? He's a chump. A survivors' plaything.
To get value out of his mage hand you have to lift your hand up when the survivor is just between the pallet so they have little time to react to you having mage hand ready to be casted as they’re running through. If they throw the pallet down, you then quickly react which will lift the pallet fast enough to get a hit, I have even had times where I managed to reach survivors even with magical boots because of lifting the pallet with fast reaction. It’s an ability you have to be quick on your feet with and slightly quicker if they have the mage hand magical item (unless it’s disabled by dispelling sphere).
I actually do agree that his duration on the fly spell should be extended because you are correct that the distance you gain is very mediocre at best and distance you make with fly while rabid brutality is active is far better and is an example of how it should feel when using fly. I’m grateful the devs made Vecna’s fly cooldown 20 seconds though considering the distance you travel isn’t that great.
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@ad19970 said:
Are you sure this invalidation counter is always possible?
I played Vecna for quite some time after he released, and what I found is that you can prevent this counter by using Mage Hand early enough. You have to use Mage Hand right before the survivor starts dropping the pallet. That way, your cooldown starts earlier, while the survivor is still in the process of dropping the pallet, and this allows you to hit the survivor after Mage Hand picks up the pallet, and before the survivor can drop the pallet again.
Pretty sure that's how I was able to get hits against the few survivors that did know about this counterplay. Simply using Mage Hand early enough does the trick. This of course forces you to use Mage Hand on prediction instead of reaction, which means if you predict wrong and the survivor doesn't drop the pallet you might have wasted Mage Hand, but that's how Mage Hand should be in my opinion. If you could just react to pallet drops Mage Hand wouldn't have enough counterplay.
You still have to primitively charge mage hand before only then casting it on reaction because if you predict wrong then you are still slowed down and allow them to loop more. Having to pre cast and guess way more/before any killer with a chase power in order to get to get value would feel horrible, (and this won’t work unless you’re really close to the survivor) you’d then suffer a 40 second cooldown after potentially guessing wrong each time which would feel horrible to play on when you can play Dracula and get value out of your abilities consistently within matches even when making a mistake because his short cooldowns make up for misplays.
I can see how casting mage hand very early could stop the “invalidation counter” however then you have to guess correctly every time someone goes under a pallet which it’s realistically impossible to guess that even 30% of the time during a match and that counter only works if the distance between you and the survivor is very short so you can only then go through the pallet while their pallet animation has not completely finished yet. If you guess wrong, (more often then not you will) you would have to wait for a cooldown that lasts over half a minute and the pallet you used mage hand on is still an obstacle in your way. If that is your most common result to a part of a killer’s power then it is best to gravitate to another killer by that point.
So if they pre drop from a distance then mage hand still has no value and the only counter to the “invalidation counter” is being at a short distance from the survivor and casting it very early but every Vecna knows casting mage hand early will almost always lead to them making another loop and that would definitely happen if they don’t throw the pallet.
The only way to avoid the “invalidation counter” (pre casting) will lead to you guessing wrong most of the time or not getting value at all because of pre dropping from a distance, holding W, and the backpedaling counter. The rate of you making a mistake or not getting value out of mage hand is increased to 80% or more if the survivor knows those 3 counters and the “invalidation counter”. Thus, making it a useless ability. I should also note once more that in order to stop the invalidation trick, the pre cast has to be a close range otherwise you won’t make it through in time, so even the pre cast option is situational, and not always reliable.
So if that counter remains in the game, a Vecna would be playing a killer where they’re constantly mind gaming themselves to get value out of one of their chase abilities that has a 40 second cooldown they will suffer after every mistake, at that point it would be best to play a killer that doesn’t put you at a constant disadvantage like that and that’s more fun, like Dracula.
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@PolarBear said:
Not only is it definitely not an intended counterplay, it doesn't make any sense. How do I know? Because it's not even consistent. I am not sure what the cause is (ping or something completely different), but sometimes Vecna has enough time to swing before the stun.
Predicting the pallet drop should almost always result in a hit considering other killers with similar chase powers and the immense cooldown on mage hand.I noticed that too actually. It’s very weird. On rare cases, you actually are able to get the hit but on most you’re not. We can only hope the issue gets addressed by a dev at some point. Hope is all I got.
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@crogers271 said:
The first two you list come with downsides. Hold W Vecna can fly towards and pre dropping weakens the value of the loop. You aren't using Mage Hand, but you are still getting plenty of value out of it.
The third is an issue of counterplay. Survivors should have counterplay of some sort and this guessing game/risk is fine.
The fourth I haven't seen but I don't see Vecna frequently, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned by a streamer, but if true should be fixed.
Vecna suffers a big cooldown after using fly which is a combination of the cooldown for when his spell ends and the cooldown for when he is recovering after the spell ends which is also when he can’t cast spells or swing. If a Vecna uses fly before or after a pre drop he won’t have enough time to cast mage hand to get value from it because of the cooldown it has.
I wouldn’t say the third is an issue of counterplay because it’s good back and forth gameplay between the killer and the survivor, the survivor either continues to greed, thinking the Vecna will prematurely use mage hand or abruptly stop looping at random and go for a stun which leads to a massive reward, but if the Vecna makes the right read and calls the action, they get rewarded as a result. I like the back and forth in gameplay when making the correct decisions at the right time.
Which is how Vecna’s kit functions. It’s entirely based on using certain spells at the right times and getting rewarded for doing so.
I can’t say why the fourth isn’t talked about either however, there aren’t many who play Vecna and that might be why but there’s not much I can say on that which is why I finally made a post about it.
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@SeriousRain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919099#Comment_3919099
Yea Vecna has that magical theme going on and extra chests (that make him weaker a bit but fine). Dracula is just pure power.
Both of these are very true statements. Vecna is more is gimmicky and weaker while Dracula is a little more straightforward and powerful. I wouldn’t mind if the devs made Vecna’s lethality on par with Dracula but if there’s one thing I really hope they do is fix the problem where survivors can make one of your chase spells almost completely useless
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@Blueberry said:
I've always felt like Vecna was a bit undertuned and could use some improvements. I don't see him much either.
I learned to get used to his cooldowns but I do see what you mean as well. Vecna is one of the few killers where you have to play him perfectly against survivors that make minimal mistakes because making just a slight misplay as Vecna leads to 35 or 40 second cooldown with no benefit which is why not many play him.
A killer like Dracula, for example can make a misplay but still get his abilities relatively quickly to make up for it despite being closely similar to Vecna in terms of functionality but more powerful in leathality so more gravitate towards him.
To put Vecna on the same scale of lethality as Dracula or at least almost on the same scale, the devs would have to heavily reduce his spell cooldowns to be close to Dracula’s cooldowns, not too long but not too short.
An example would be, fly is a 15 second cooldown, flight of the damned is a 20 second cooldown, mage hand is a 22 second cooldown, and dispelling sphere is a 15 second cooldown.
I don’t see something like that happening however but one can only dream. And I have been playing Dracula as a replacement for Vecna because of mage hand being able to be completely invalidated but it’s very noticeable how much more lethal Dracula is in comparison to Vecna even though both function similarly.
Despite that I have still enjoyed playing Vecna until I went through a continuous amount of games where survivors knew about the “invalidation counter” I mentioned and I haven’t played him since.