StarLost
StarLost
About
- Username
- StarLost
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916960#Comment_2916960
You know the difference in exploiting and cheating? Obviously not.
The difference is academic at best. It's still a hell of a thing to accuse someone of, especially someone that plays this game for a living and especially since it didn't look like you apologized after it turned out you were completely wrong.
Anyway, I wasn't looking to beef, was just curious if that was you or someone with a different name.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916709#Comment_2916709
I mean they could just do a specific nerf to only CoH by making it only be places 2-3 times per match. That way other boons don't have to suffer because of how overtuned they made CoH
Boons are unfortunately completely krangled at the design level.
The fact that they can be present 100% of the game and cover almost the entire map when sited correctly, with almost no realistic counterplay means that they either need to be weaksauce (and thus never used) or completely break the game (CoH).
-
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916962#Comment_2916962
A game should be balanced around even averages when match ups are even skill. Nerfing or buffing something because it does well or not when one side is better than the other makes no sense.
And that's where it gets tricky. 'Skill' in this game, or even 'even' is difficult to quantify outside of extremely high end play. This is what makes balancing any sort of game a moving target, especially games with asymmetrical balance and a degree of RNG to them.
-
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916937#Comment_2916937
I don’t consider it reasonable to call something unbalanced because MMR gives uneven matches. Which ideally, the recent planned changes will reduce. If one side is better than the other, is it unbalanced they win? Or would it be weirder they don’t win? Basically that. Even matches lead to even results, showing it is balanced when the matches are even. So the goal is to make matches more even, not change the balance itself.
It's tricky - because sometimes making matches more even is going to mean changing the balance of the game, and sometimes it might not be.
-
@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/320162/the-killer-perk-meta-is-pretty-balanced
Great meta balance with 10 out of 90 perks being used always depending on the character.
Your name sounds familiar. I keep asking, but are you the same guy that accused Otz of cheating in that video? Really curious.
I'd say more like 30 out of 90. And...yeah, the fact that killers aren't all just running ye olde Undying+Ruin setups is a massive improvement.
-
@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916829#Comment_2916829
self care is broken? jfc you guys hahaha
Wat.
SC = Spine Chill. That...wasn't obvious from context?
Although I can see why the confusion arises, forgot that two perks share the same acronym :).
@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/320162/the-killer-perk-meta-is-pretty-balanced
there are more meta killer perks than the 8 you listed, and for survivors, well #########. they only have 4 meta perks lmao. sad state to be a solo survivor main
Survivors have plenty of good perks, at least on par with killer.
The issue is that survivors also have maybe 5 or 6 perks that are so ridiculously powerful that, after a certain point, nobody interested in maximizing their performance is going to bother running anything else. That's why you see Dead Hard and CoH in basically every match - it doesn't mean that Sprint Burst, Self Care, Desperate Measures and the like are weak, it means that there are better options.
Sometimes, power is relative.
-
@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916921#Comment_2916921
I'm not sure, usually killer is easy at the start especially if you have some awareness or education on the game and how its played and as you go up it swaps over.
I dont know anyone knew to killer, no one wants to play it and I stopped recommending DBD
Yep.
At the new-new player level, killers have the advantage because their role is slightly more intuitive. I think this is the reason why, when you look at gross kill rates, most killers are above 50%.
-
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916915#Comment_2916915
I’ll link you back to a comment I made in a different thread where I had answered this before:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905351#Comment_2905351
Feel free to ask if there’s anything else you want to know. The above is referencing non-competitive, but if you’re curious about competitive where god Nurses and god SWFs play against each other regularly, the average there is 2K as well with standard tournament restrictions. When all restrictions are completely removed, Nurse’s kill rate average drops to a negative (less than 2/match). However, the above post is to show on the rare cases where MMR does give even matches or high level players do a KYF or whatever together, it very clearly evens out.
Ah, I see. Yes, in those incredibly (I'd say artificially) 'fair' scenarios, then sure. But I don't think this is a good balance metric, much as I don't think gross kill rates are a good balance metric, for much the same reasons.
When I say 'even skill', I'm talking about situations more representative of the way this game is played by the majority of the playerbase at intermediate MMRs. That would be the data I'd be most interested in, and sadly - I don't think we'll ever have access to it.
-
@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916830#Comment_2916830
Hooking survivors are inevitable. If it is guaranteed to happen, why should the other side be prevented from doing their objective?
Boil Over is being nerfed because it makes hooking survivors "a little too difficult". This balancing is not considered or applied to survivor side. Survivors have to finish gens just like killers have to hook in order to do their objective.
What?
Sluzzy, as is...far too often the case, I'm not sure whether you are being facetious here.
DMS doesn't 'prevent' you from doing anything. It has multiple forms of counterplay, all of which are effective.
Boil Over was nerfed because it allowed survivors to become literally unhookable on certain maps, forcing the killer to hard slug and camp them. Why do you think this was worth keeping in the game?
-
-
@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916882#Comment_2916882
I haven't seen any official statement that they changed it, but that's why I mentioned playing at a different time because that definitely has a huge impact due to the increased player pool.
Let's be honest theres so many issues with the SBMM, my brother has yet to "win" a killer game and hes played about 100 odd lol. Hes definitely not near a top killer and he dont use meta but hes not bad either so I find that weird.
I hate the system, all of it. Only thing iv probably enjoyed due to SBMM is seeing the same people so often its turned into a meme and we just send messages like "ew its you" "go find your own lobby jeez" "hello there obi screenshot" etc. Lol
No idea if/when it was changed, I'm just saying what I observed teaching a completely new killer the game.
-
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916903#Comment_2916903
Didn't all Killers have an average kill rate of 50%+, aside from Nurse and Trickster?
Yuppers. And yes, I'm trying to make a point here regarding balancing off kill rates and why it's silly, because these are always going to be heavily distorted by newer players.
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916903#Comment_2916903
Even skill matches actually average out to ~2K for the Nurse.
Source?
-
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I think her base kit is fine, but some of her add-ons are too much. You have allready the best base kit killer in the whole game, that ignores almost all defense of Survivors and you put on top of that good add-ons. That's just too much. I think versing a Nurse would be fine if you didn't see something like this (and it's not rare to see it).
Eh...
Here's the thing.
Nurse is absolutely too strong at certain skill levels, for sure. A big part of that comes from her addons.
However, Nurse is also absolutely too weak at certain skill levels, as demonstrated by her kill rates.
If BHVR are going to balance around gross kill rates (Wraith and Cenobite nerfs, for instance), then Nurse and Blight get to stay as-is - because otherwise you're endorsing a double standard.
If they were willing to buff the lower B and the C and D tier killers, then go ahead and reign Nurse and Blight in. Otherwise...yeah, again - double standards generally aren't a good idea.
Or - rework Nurse completely.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Some of her Add-ons need nerfs, Blight's aswell
I'd be curious to see Blight's kill rates now.
-
@Kurri said:
I am kind of disappointed that the strongest perks to choose from are all about gen control. I would like to see more variety from that.
It's sort of inevitable that the perks that slow down the primary objective are meta.
I'd love to see more offense oriented perks like STBFL, PWYF, Rancor, Devour etc. but these are really tough to balance.
@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916730#Comment_2916730
Killers get massive advantage with Ruin. When it is gone, they fall back to Call of Brine. Constant barrage of gen slowdown.
All of these slowdowns added but survivors haven't been given anything to get gens done quicker or stay alive longer.
Developers forgot that these perks are broken if 4 survivors can't all be at the end of the game. With only 2 or 3 survivors, there is no way to finish gens when killers are constantly notified of survivor whereabouts.
Yawn.
- Ruin is as powerful as the map and the survivors want it to be. It's a huge risk/reward perk.
- Call of Brine isn't all that strong at all. Just tap the gen.
- Survivors have endless tools to finish gens quicker and stay alive longer. That's what...nearly every meta survivor perk does. What?
- Yes, this game is snowbally in nature. If one survivor dies/DCs/suicides early, the killer generally wins. If 4 survivors are alive at 1-2 gens left, at least 3 will generally escape. That's sort of how the game works.
- Asserting that something is broken doesn't mean that thing is broken.
-
@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/318102/mmr-unbalance-new-player
New players arent placed at the bottom of SBMM, unfortunately you will have to endure losing a bunch to find your place
You could end up in high mmr in time, and jeez is that a fun filled adventure!
All in all the SBMM sucks, sorry
That used to be the case, but there is definitely a 'new player' bracket.
Got my wife to try the game recently, and her first...maybe 5 games were absolutely with other newbies.
The problem was that she had me telling her what to do as a killer, meaning she won - and suddenly she was facing meta squads.
-
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916801#Comment_2916801
Myers can struggle with Spine Chill a little, but:
- He's one killer out of 27. If I was calling for Calm Spirit nerfs just because of Doctor that would be ridiculous.
- He's not bad because of Spine Chill, he's bad because of a lot of other reasons.
- He can still get a bit of stalk from a survivor with Spine Chill, and they're still vulnerable to 99s if you use the same strategy as Ghostface.
Some perks are just naturally going to be more effective against some killers, that doesn't mean they need nerfs.
'A little bit' is downplaying how hard this counters him.
- Yes, and? Calm Spirit is a silly example - nobody runs it because it's terrible. SC is a great perk against all killers and devastating against a few.
- It doesn't help, and if the devs aren't going to buff or rework Myers (they've said they won't be), then this perk needs attention.
- Not really. Unless they misplay horribly, you're just wasting stalk juice and in T1 you're going to get crapped on.
Sure. But where that perk is already powerful, and absolutely devastating to a few killers - that means it probably does.
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916840#Comment_2916840
Sure, like I said it’s obviously really good against Stealth. I think it’s one of the best survivor perks personally, in part because it not only helps with Stealth but the alerts also help against mindgames in chases.
In fact I’d be all for removing that vault speed buff it has, I think it would still be a solid perk without it and that speed boost seems kind of like a spurious addition that has little to do with the main point of the perk, namely alerting you to when a killer is coming.
A couple months ago someone posted 400 games worth of data and kept track of how many survivors used specific perks every match. It was pretty interesting because you could pivot out escape rates versus how many people had Dead Hard for example and see a really strong correlation. Unfortunately the data didn’t include a column for Spine Chill and I would have loved to have seen how much of an impact Spine Chill has on escape rates, particularly if there was enough data in it to get good averages for individual killers.
I could probably hack something together from recorded matches, but I can tell you:
- I see a lot of SC.
- I run SC almost every game, and it helps me immensely almost every game.
I like the speed boosts but yeah, they could be removed. However, I'd rather just make it not work against stealth, as that's sort of the area where it becomes unfair. It's sort of crappy to have something this out of your control negate your kit so effectively.
-
@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916840#Comment_2916840
I would never use it.
I guess just like keys after the nerf, according to this forum still amazing with aura reading, yet I played 500+ games and saw a key once
Really? I see plenty of keys, and with the right addons they are amazing - but some of them need a duration buff.
I'd still run SC for sure.
@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916850#Comment_2916850
After Dead Hard, Spine Chill is next.
I'd hope that boons are next (nerf CoH, buff DT and Overcome) but yes, SC needs a look.
Are you implying that Dead Hard doesn't need a nerf? Otherwise I'm not sure why you even mentioned it.
At the very least it shouldn't work against undetectable. This one perk is a large reason why Myers can be so frustrating to play - this one perk alone can ensure you stay in T1 for ages, and there isn't much you can do about it.
-
@WaveyTrey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916760#Comment_2916760
Ruin? Gets destroyed… Survivor decides when totems stay. Players remember the spawns and go straight to them. Brine is okay, but it’s like ToT. You gotta look around before leaving it alone to regress. Wasting more time. The only good perk gen slow down is new Dead Man’s Switch, and I suggested this change many times! It’s balanced because it requires catching AND hooking survivors. Saying DMS is broken is like saying Pop is too. It’s simple to prevent. Stop getting caught so fast! 🤣
I played both sides enough to know that survivor is about as hard as playing killer IF YOU SOLO. Find a competent group to survive with, and you’ll stop losing altogether. The devs have to always work around the later because that’s what the community wants to do.
Ruin is a high risk/reward perk. If survivors find it, it's useless. If they don't, it's basically GG. This depends a lot on luck and a fair amount on survivor map knowledge.
CoB is amazing, but you need to pair it with either extreme mobility (Wraith and Spirit work well with CoB) or another regression perk (Pop is good). Not only do you get regression, but you get excellent info.
PR is incredible.
DMS and blocker perks are good, but have a serious drawback - the 'dam' effect.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916661#Comment_2916661
Spine Chill partially counters Stealth but not completely. Like I said above, I catch Spine Chill survivors pretty commonly just by sidestepping toward generators. It’s obviously a good perk against Stealth but it’s not a complete negation.
You can attempt to mindgame it like that, but even if you do - it's still a powerful early warning system against killers who rely on sneaky approaches.
I know that even as a beginner survivor, it's strong. If I see it light up and then go dark and nobody else is being chased, I know to be on my guard - even in this scenario it's basically Whispers that also gives me a pretty powerful speed boost, with zero cooldown, at times when I need it the most.
Then add on the fact that it blind counters Myers (against savvy survivors, you can find yourself stuck in T1 for ages), at the very least soft counters a bunch of other killers...any perk that requires you to play as if it were present even if it's not probably suggests that this perk might be on the OP side.
It would still be amazing even if it didn't function when a killer was undetectable.
-
@gatsby said:
Ruin, Undying, Dead Man's Switch, Deadlock, Pain Resonance, No Way Out, Corrupt and Jolt are all viable right now depending on the Killer and the build.
We probably have the most variety in the Killer perk meta in years right now. More people should acknowledge this because its pretty rare that the Devs actually balance perks so there's competition between them.
You can also add Pop, CoB, STBFL, BBQ, FoR, HG, MYC, Devour, Plaything, Pentimento, Retribution, Thana and probably a few others I'm forgetting. I think the killer meta is better than it's ever been.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I wish I could say the same about Survivor meta.
You have just few S tier perks, then few A tier perks (that are weaker than S, so why would you run them anyway), and then the rest 75% of perks are somewhere between B -> F (aka why would you EVER run them unless you do fun builds).
Here's the problem with the survivor meta.
'Tier' is relative.
Survivors have a lot of good perks, and a few that are so strong that not using them is almost playing the game wrong.
DH and CoH are probably the best examples. BT and DS are also crazy strong, but are sort of required to be strong.
There are plenty of other great survivor perks, but they are just overshadowed by the power of ridiculously fast teamwide heals and a third health state.
@Sluzzy said:
Power creep. The killer meta is actually a huge problem.
I'm...not sure if you understand what that means.
Both sides have experienced a lot of buffs as of late (DH 'fix', CoH on the survivor end).
The handful of nerfs doled out were mostly because the stuff nerfed was straight up unhealthy for the game (keys, BO, OoO).
@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916706#Comment_2916706
Spine chill is OP now? oh my........................
@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916759#Comment_2916759
There are daily topics about SC to be nerfed
Because SC has been quietly broken for years now, it's just not as visibly impactful as DH and CoH.
It shouldn't blind counter Myers for starters.
@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916770#Comment_2916770
People on these forums want everything nerfed, so it's not like a lot of threads wanting something to be nerfed mean anything imo.
When there are a sufficient number of feedback criticisms about an aspect of your game, it definitely demonstrates that a lot of people are frustrated by that aspect.
-
@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916719#Comment_2916719
Exactly. The last time sc appeared as a must use perk for me, a brilliantly played ghostface snuck around me and stalked me from an unexpected angle to full before i could get away from the gen and i was downed while vaulting 2 seconds later. Spine chill lit up and i spun my xamera to see where he was. Too late. Now i use it when goofing around only. It just isnt THAT strong
Yeah, it is.
The fact that you got outplayed by someone doesn't mean the perk isn't a problem. It just means that someone was a bit more skilled than you.
'This perk is fine because survivors sometimes make mistakes' isn't a good argument. I saw the same damn stuff trotted out to defend CoH auras stacking, old OoO, old DS etc.
@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916680#Comment_2916680
To be honest I would stop playing solo survivor at that point.
When I am in 4 SWF I dont need Spine Chill because at comms I get all the information I need about where is the killer, not so in solo, the way I see it Spine Chill almost a must have to survive in solo.
And I am the same I dont want to be jumpscared or pay extreme amount of attention, just want to play casually, destroyed by stealth killers in solo, I would just abandon solo
Spine Chill is amazing in SWFs, almost as good as old OoO was. And that's before we get into the bonus speeds.
It's also great in solo.
The fact that you are so dependent on this single perk probably means that it needs a look, in and of itself.
I agree that solo survivors need some help - and they are getting it. My guess is that the new statuses will be coming in a few months for the anniversary. But this one perk and the way it punishes specific killers with zero realistic counterplay isn't good for the game.
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916717#Comment_2916717
You don't, but it takes like 2.5 seconds to fully stalk while leaning. That's not really much time to react at all.
The issue isn't just marking - it's catching the marked survivor off guard.
But it's hard to talk accurately about Ghosty right now due to his rework, and how much depends on whether the changes to reveal come out to a nerf or not.
Let's talk about Myers.
How does a Myers play around Spinechill?
-
@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916688#Comment_2916688
You can stalk while a survivor flees, you can stalk for a few seconds while the survivor realizes what is going on and relocates. Survivors cannot teleport with spine chill, all it does is provide knowledge early. This does reduce the effectiveness of stalking or stealth killers in general, and that is its point. It is literally made to do this function.
To talk about nerfing its primary function, when all of the meta perks are stronger against stealth killers is misguided. All perks should be buffed to this level of potential use. Strong in some situations and weak in others. Or the perks should be clearly fun, like headon. Clearly the weakest of the perks but can sometimes be hilarious.
Barely. Particularly on Myers, stalking slows to a crawl as you make distance and all he's doing is burning through 'stalk juice'.
Teleport? No. But I think you're underestimating just how much a few seconds advantage makes in a chase.
'Just buff everything' is often a fine sentiment, but is also unrealistic. Sometimes it's easier just to apply a small nerf to the outliers - and in this case would be good for the health of the game, as it would also be a small defacto buff to several killers that are struggling.
SC is a meta perk. Hell, I'll note down how often I run into it (generally at least 1 survivor every game, sometimes as many as 4).
But you do put your finger on a key point here - perks should be strong in some scenarios and weak in others. Generally this means that they need to have counterplay.
Tell me - what is the counterplay to SC as a Myers or Ghostface?
-
@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916652#Comment_2916652
It is only 6% while being looked directly at. So for the 7 seconds it takes the killer to close the distance to the generator, you would have gotten the generator done a whole 0.35 seconds faster.... whoopdy f-in do.
That extra speed can make the difference between finishing the gen or having the killer put a Pop+CoB kick into it. But the gen repairing is probably the least powerful aspect of it.
Here's more powerful scenarios.
- Killer is approaching, you are busy healing. Spinechill allows me to finish the heal, killer then baps the person and rather than being dead, they now escape.
- We're both on the shack tile, doing the whole silly mindgame thing. I see SC lighting up and going dark, and using it I can roughly guess where the killer is and even have an idea how far away they are (quicker light/dark means they are further away, slower means they are close) and can win the mindgame.
- Killer is right behind me. I vault and narrowly avoid getting hit and can make it to a safe tile. Without SC, I'd be downed.
SC is a banger of a perk - but all of the above have some counterplay. The problem is when you add the following:
- There's a Ghostface or Myers stalking me. Without SC, I'd be instadowned. With SC, I immediately know what's happening and am on my way. Both of these killers are wrecked by this perk.
There's literally no way for the Myers or Ghosty to prevent this - it's just a blind counter.
@Mat_Sella said:
No one is "complaining" about spine chill.
It is an objective truth that stealth killers are weaker than most of the killer roster and one singular perk can ruin the entire premise of their gameplay; be scary and sneak up.
I'd also like for someone to explain to me how Ghostface and Myers can "avoid" spine chill when their power revolves around staring at survivors.
Please enlighten me as to why certain killers need to be butchered because of one perk and that asking that stealth killers that are Undetectable be actually undetectable is too much to ask for in a game where advanced knowledge and communication can completely turn a game around?
This. And BHVR can't just buff the hell out of stealth killers, due to how difficult they are for newer players to face.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916673#Comment_2916673
Nah, it would join the other "ok" tier perks that would just few people run.
I would rather face Spine Chill players (that you can soft counter by your camera) than another Adrenaline, Iron Will, etc.
IW is another problem due to it hard countering Spirit unless she brings a specific addon.
I disagree that SC would only be 'okay'. I reckon I could make a good case for it still being a top tier perk - it's just so damn versatile and helps everyone from brand new players to veterans.
@Hawk81584 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916670#Comment_2916670
doesnt change the fact.....no matter what if a survivor uses it....its time to nerf it...from what i can gather the only way to truly make people happy is just to take perks completely away
Don't strawman.
'x is badly designed because it hard counters several killers and strongly soft counters another 3' is not 'nerf everything'.
Sometimes things need a nerf, for the good of the game.
@cburton311 said:
Use resilience for speed boosts, use spine chill for stealth, the fact that it sometimes has side benefit is good, it means its not useless when you don't face a stealth killer. But let's not pretend that side benefit works miracles
It does though.
I'm a pretty bad survivor, and SC has already won me games essentially single handedly. That Myers got stuck in T1 for an extra minute. That GF couldn't mark me, and instead got revealed. That Pig wasted her approach. That Wraith got lightburned rather than hitting me. I got through shack window another time without a hit. That person who was getting tunneled got healed and made it to safety.
-
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Nerf it and you can trow it into the endless abyss of worthless Survivor perks that almost no one runs.
I love Spine Chill because I don't like being scared jumped and it helps with also different situations (like Nurse is blinking towards your direction, etc.)
If this perk is nerfed I will have to replace it with meta perk I quess.
SC is already a meta perk, frankly. I see it almost as much as I do Dead Hard and I probably value it as much as any survivor perk I can think of.
The issue is that it hard counters two entire killers (which is a bit silly for one perk) and substantially negates the kits of 3 other killers, all of which are already on the weaker side.
If you made it not work against killers when they are undetectable, it would still be an incredible perk - it's one of the few perks that has incredible utility both in chase and outside of chase.
-
@HungrySnek said:
Spine chill is a great perk and I love it myself when I play survivors but when I play killer and any stealth killer it's a absolute nightmare. I thought there are stealth killer to Well...stealth... Also the effect called on these killers is basically called Undetectable...so it doesn't make sense for spine chill to tell you that a invisible wraith is coming in your direction.
Spine chill can work for the Oblivious effect and like always to any other moment, but the moment the killer has the Undetectable effect trough there basekit, addons or perks spine chill shouldn't show that the killer is coming.
Completely agree.
It's unfair how hard Spinechill counters Myers and Ghostface.
...How?
Are stealth killers overpowered without SC? Because I don't think a single one of them is above 'C' tier.
Wraith, Pig, Myers, Onryo and Ghosty are all pretty crap against survivors that know what they are doing, with or without this perk.
SC is an incredible early warning system that also gives you hefty advantages in chase (that vault speed has saved my butt so many times).
@dugman said:
Like other people said, the whole point of Spine Chill is it’s a tool to use against Undetectable killers. That’s not a bug, it’s a feature. Also, as a killer, I often can get ambushes on Spine Chill survivors simply by staring directly at generators they work on while I move toward them. In fact it feels like there are quite a few survivors who use that perk and watch that icon and it distracts them from just watching the surroundings so if a killer sidesteps towards them they don’t see it coming.
That said, I never really understood why it also gives survivors extra vault speed. It probably is a solid perk without the speed boost, but that’s just a guess. 🤷♂️
The issue is that stalking killers are straight up blind-countered by this one perk, which is pretty unhealthy for the game. The entire point of stealth killers is that their terrible kits are somewhat balanced by better approaches. SC completely negates this aspect.
@ReverseVelocity said:
We really don't need to nerf Spine Chill.
This wouldn't be so much a nerf to SC as it would be a small buff to Myers and Ghostface, and a smaller buff to Pig, Onryo and Wraith. Which is not a bad thing - all of these killers need buffs.
@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916640#Comment_2916640
They want to see flip-flop or power struggle level perks on survivors.
Anything that is useless.
When you strawman, you concede the argument.
I enjoy playing survivor as well as killer, and I'd be happy to see SC not work against stealth killers, especially Myers and Ghostface.
One already very powerful perk shouldn't hard counter two entire killer kits, on top of being excellent against everyone else.
That's a bad design oversight.
@Trickstaaaaa said:
There is nothing people don't want nerfed in this game lmao. Like a turning one of the decent perks into a useless perk. It's not OP, it can be countered. Would you guys rather see more spine chills or DH/BT, since that's the perks I see you guys always complaining about. If anything you guys should put more energy into asking for weak/useless perks to be BUFFED instead of nerfing decent perks.
See above.
The issue isn't the overall power of SC, it's that it completely breaks two killers and makes 3 others a lot weaker - all of which are already weak killers.
Even if it didn't work against undetectable killers, it would still be a five star perk.
@cburton311 said:
I'm sorry you don't like survivors having tools to help them, but spine chills only purpose is to help against stealth killers. The speed boost is largely irrelevant except in chase where stealth is also irrelevant. And against normal heartbeat killers, you don't need it at all.
Try approaching generators looking off to one side 30 degrees.
...Wat. SC is an amazing perk against basically all killers.
SC would be crazy good even if it didn't work when a killer was undetectable. It's never left my bars and probably never will - the early warning aspect is amazing and the vault speed alone is massively powerful. On top of this, it makes mindgames much more difficult to execute (you can use SC as a compass to determine roughly where the killer is).
-
@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
(Almost 700k hours killer main here) So i decided to switch from killer main to survivor main for a week and dbd has been much fun lately. My heart isn't pounding through my chest from the stress of playing killer, 4 people aren't taunting me, i'm not irritated of the second chances survivors get, it's been a much chill experience. Hell even losing as survivor is fun, cuz atleast i don't get 4 people rubbing it in my face "hey you lose, we win". Now the problem is, i don't wanna go back to playing killer at all, why stress my ass off playing killer in this survivor sided game when i can actually have fun as survivor? Gaming is supposed to be fun anyways. So to the killers mains who switched to being survivor mains, did you guys go back to playing killer? Or stuck to survivor?
700...k? That's impossible lol.
If you mean 700 hours, that's interesting - because I very recently decided to start learning survivor with a similar number of hours on killer.
I found that both roles have their own stresses, but in general I still prefer the killer role.
Survivor:
- Less stressful, but also less control over how the game plays out (and it's entirely possible to lose and depip for things outside of my control).
- Long periods of boredom followed by sudden panic.
- Far too many killers who facecamp or slug and bleed-out with Knockout at 5 gens.
Killer:
- More demanding, but I only have to rely on myself.
- Survivors are often BM, but I can generally do something to punish the BMers.
- I control the narrative of the game for the most part.
I honestly both love and hate both roles for different reasons. I will say though that learning to play survivor is making me better at killer, and also a bit more appreciative of the frustrations of survivor players.
-
@Kurri said:
Yeah most likely backfill, or they had other Killers with high mmr so the new killer was an average rating.
Honestly think they should just remove the backfill. I don't mind the extra wait, since the backfill system only hurts players by the end of the day.
Killers should have their own MMR, and your first time playing a new killer shouldn't be based off the average of your other Killers.
Apparently they are going to fix the backfill thing eventually.
@GenJockeyNance said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2915361#Comment_2915361
According to some people, if you can't run the killer for 5 gens and do all 5 gens for your incompetent teammates and still escape then "you're not as good as you think you are." 🙄But that is true. Those are the types of games I've had as well. The icing game on the cake for me that has made me quit playing for the day was this match against a Bubba and Claudette got hooked in the basement. I waited until I knew for sure he was in chase, no one was going to get her so I go, injured. I have BT. Instead of making it a free escape out of the basement, she goes into a freaking locker, Bubba comes back and I'm screwed because Claudette didn't bother to take the BT hit to get us out of basement. So naturally I go down and hooked, she threw the game.... for one... head on stun.... that failed. He gets her before she even gets to the basement steps and she dcs.
I'm honestly so done playing this game in my free time. I've made up my mind I'm only playing during events and rifts solely for the challenges because I do like this game but the only truly good days I had was during the MMR testings and it's gone and I'm back to just pure unfun matches. And I was very excited about the changes to but it doesn't feel like nothing's changed or it's gotten worse, I can't tell.
Yes and no.
Here's the thing. If you can run the killer for 5 gens, that means you are pretty good compared to the killer and thus you are at a lower MMR than you should be. That skill will amount to more wins overall, and your MMR will rise until you can't run the killer like that.
The only major issue is pipping, which - yes - can be very unfair on the survivor end.
@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2915051#Comment_2915051
This is exactly what happened with resident evil. The license brought in a massive influx of players, only for those players to be met with some of the worst glitches the game has ever seen. Not to mention the map itself being pulled for over a month certainly didn't win over the new resident evil fans. When you throw in SBMM on top of all of that, it's no wonder that the game hasn't seen a surplus of players ever since.
It's concerning, but I also see it as a somewhat old game experiencing a sudden rush and then gradually returning to the status quo. All games will eventually peak and begin to decline. We'll see what happens this anniversary.
-
@MrPeanutbutter said:
You’ve discovered the unfortunate truth that the SBMM system simply doesn’t work. Most players don’t want to go through the stress and misery of playing killer, so most of the time there aren’t enough killers to allow the SBMM system to function well (especially true during peak times when there are more sweaty SWF squads playing together). In order to keep survivors from waiting in 20+ minute queues, as killer you’ll be matched against whatever survivor group is waiting next regardless of their MMRs. As survivor, you’ll get matched against next available killer regardless of their MMR.
That's...not what's going on.
There are sufficient killer players that my survivor queues are nearly instant outside of peak.
What's going on at peak is that there are more groups, and thus more chances to be caught in a backfill situation - which is the one thing that causes SBMM to break down. Apparently this will be fixed soonish.
@CptCaptain said:
Firstly, I have about 80 hours in this game, roughly 60 hours or so I've spent playing killer, then I started getting unfun matches against people far above my skill level so switched over to survivor.
Yesterday, I played 19 games, of those 19 games I escaped 4 times with two of those being pity hatch escapes (as I understand, hatch escapes do not affect MMR) - so, that's 15 losses and 2 wins. Today I've played 14 matches, I've escaped twice and lost 12 times.
Virtually every survivor game I've played has been against killers with over 2,000 hours, some as much as 10,000 hours.
It's incredibly frustrating, unfun and completely demoralising to have back to back games where you stand little to no chance of winning and often barely get to actually play as it seems everyone with a ridiculous amount of hours just hooks someone then stands there until you die.
At what point is the MMR system in this game going to go "you know what, maybe this guy with his 80 hours isn't quite at the same skill level as someone with 2,000 hours??" How much must I lose before I start to see remotely balanced games?
Something is hinky here, because I played a good amount of survivor yesterday and something was definitely up - early morning matches were bonkers - but it seemed to be fixed by the afternoon.
-
@Souplet said:
I played through like the 4 last days of test. Havent had this much fun in the game for a while, the very reason i uninstalled DbD when they added sbmm
After the tests i was "okay lets keep playing, see how it goes"
Oh boy...
Getting matched with only 3-4k hours people running DH, CoH, map offering, looping gods
And here i am playing non top tier killers like clown myers legion
I will just stop playing (again) since i don't have anymore fun. I have to try so hard to even get one kill its not fun.
I really hope the player base still goes down the rabbit hole. Maybe THEN BHVR will stop being such smartasses about a mmr system in a casual APvP
How many hours do you have?
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2915360#Comment_2915360
There’s nothing wrong with slugging.
Eh...
Like a lot of things, context is king.
A bit of slugging here and there to secure another down or damage state? No issue.
Slugging everyone at 5 gens and letting them bleed out - that's really irritating to be on the other side of.
-
@P3ToxicLaurie said:
I have played 5 games tonight far, 4 of which were farmers. I was also queued for like five minutes for all the games. Nobody wants to play a game where nobody actually plays. BHVR needs to do something about farmers, or else more people are gonna start quitting more than they already are. Not saying you need to ban farmers, but ruining 4 other peoples experience cause someone wants to AFK to be "funny", or a pig, who sits in front of one box so you cant get a trap off, or a killer who is afk, but has a macro making them swing every couple seconds. I could go on and on. I have been playing for so long, and nothing is more annoying then waiting sometimes 10-15 minutes for a match late at night just for it to be a farming/afk or any other variation of not playing correctly killer.
You could literally just make it so DC penaltys dont stack up to an insane amount of hours after a certain amount of DC's- which is a whole other ridiculous issue. What if your internet is crap and goes out a couple times a day? You can literally get a 12-48 hour dc penalty just for trying to play the game, which has happened to me a couple times. It makes no sense for the dc penalty to be any higher than 5-15 minutes. Completely absurd. Just adds another reason onto the list of why people are quitting.
Or...we fix the grind, removing the need to farm like that?
@P3ToxicLaurie said:
Notice how most of the people on here joined recently, and probably havent had that much experience with farmers. After 6 years, it gets pretty boring. Nothing you can say can change that. Sorry you guys havent experienced it enough to be bored of it. I liked it at first too.
What does join date have to do with anything?
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2915112#Comment_2915112
1600 hour survivor
900 hour survivor
13 hour survivor
So was the 13 hour survivor in a swf with the others? If so the system just takes the average MMR of the group to find a killer so the killer could end being somewhat low rated.
I think the 1600 and 900 hour were in a SWF, but not the newbie (arrived separately and didn't appear on friendlists).
-
@nixtunes said:
This is me all the way right now. Hardcore surv main, over 3k hrs. I *want* to play killer, but everytime I even try I get paired up against survivors wayyyyy above my league. It completely sucks the fun out of the game. I've made do with survivor for 4 years now, but it's starting to get a little stale. BHVR needs to deal with matchmaking before it kills this damn game.
Yeah something's off this morning.
@dugman said:
Probably a backfill situation.
My second game (the second one I linked) was a fresh lobby.
-
@VanitasRyuzaki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914927#Comment_2914927
You think so? I'll send a report and see what happens. Thanks.
Yeah, the only time I've ever seen a queue that long was ultra early morning on survivor during the Christmas thing.
-
@Starrseed said:
So I am confused. Is this the truth?
I often see people saying this but at the same time I see people often say the killer failed when all gens get done. Often when they talk about neod or anything late game related.
How can it be a fail if the game is balanced like that? Since the hatch rework 2 escapes can only happen if the gens get done.
BTW yesterday a dev said its a draw when the killer gets only two kills wich means the whole balance for 2k/2e would be weird
Think of it more like this.
Ideally, you get paired with/against people that the killer has a 50% chance of killing - averaging out at 2k a game. Not 2k every game (this is rare due to the snowbally nature of DbD).
-
Must have been.
@WalterBlack said:
SBMM has sucked all of the fun I had out of this game.
Ranks were way worse.
-
@deKlaw_04 said:
Just went up against a nurse two games in a row. Same build same username. How does that even happen? lmao. She slugged me on the floor and didn’t really care about 2 people dcing early. She was mad about a random bill tbagging at her in the first game
I had this during the tail end of the MMR testing - and just my luck it was an extremely BM hard camping Bubba.
-
@KateDunson said:
Sbmm bad? Nothing new
Trust me, RBMM was way worse.
@VanitasRyuzaki said:
Sbmm isn't loading me into any matches as killer. I sit for like ten minutes and go play another game. Come back in the afternoon, still the same result and at night. So sad.
10 minutes!?
That sounds like a bug. I'd report that.
-
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
The faster my Survivor queues, the longer my Killer queues, and vice versa.
That's what I've been experiencing
That makes sense, because the side that's 'needed' will have the faster queues.
I also get why survivor queues can be fast sometimes - as there are 4 spots available in a game for every 1 killer spot.
Where I get confused is how this seems to correspond to time of day, where off-peak sees faster survivor queues and prime-time sees faster killer queues.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
It does not matter how much events, rewards we have. If game is not fun, they all are pointless. And game is not fun. Why?
Balance issues, toxic people, cheaters, grind etc.
I can play game without rewards but i can not play with those issues.
Shrug. I'm still finding the game fun, but yes - it has issues.
I'd reckon that if the community was less radioactive and the grind was less obnoxious, this game would have twice as many players.
-
@Ryan489x said:
that's my one complaint about NOED it is an end game perk. Killers who run it 98 percent of the time don't even let the game get close to the end. So why run it at all. in case you come up against a team that outplays you?
As one of the feels like few who do bones in a game I hate seeing it. You'd also be surprised how mad killers get when you take out their instant down perks, be it NOED or Devour Hope.
If they find who did it they get really campy and smack on the hook A LOT
The same principle as carrying a contraceptive in your wallet.
It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it :).
-
@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914141#Comment_2914141
Annoying doesn't mean OP. @oskar0ch even said he isn't OP. Did you read the thread at all?
Also the survivor queue times have been debunked a million times. It has to do with time of the day and region. In the EU pc it's 2 seconds during the day even with crossplay off.
Survivor queue times have dropped dramatically - for a while they were extremely long.
I'm not sure why, but the more people playing at any time = longer survivor queues. Once the number of active players drops, survivor queues get faster.
-
@Slaughterhouse3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914478#Comment_2914478
You also know that this game may not be for everyone right? Mechanically it is a different kind of game. Elden Ring is dropping numbers also but that don't mean it is still not played by a lot of people!
Elden Ring is essentially a single player game though.
Ockham's Razor this one. Why wouldn't other platforms have seen a similar falloff to Steam?
-
@Rokjer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914318#Comment_2914318
4,000 hours.
Simply. 4,000 hours.
You will find no excuse for me to pair a 700h player - and I am not mentioning that another survivor in the game had 400h - with another having as much time spent on a game.
4,000h.
I don't know if you realize the enormity of this.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2914344#Comment_2914344
A single tryhard build.
A survivor at 3 perks.
A single DS. Two DH. A single BT.
No offering/item for gen rush.
All SoloQ.
You have a very broad definition of a sweaty team.
@Rokjer said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WYYLZ50TTBAY/20220421181042-1.jpg
Three games in a row with these results.
Three Nurses camp/tunnel/slug.
Three suicide of the first survivor on the first hook.
He is well your game, BHVR.
I wonder if this is the top MMR level thing coming into play. Extremely experienced opponents will be seeing a lot more variety, which will generally go one way.
-
@Pulsar said:
He is simultaneously incredibly unfair to both sides.
Solo's are going to be in for a bad time against Pinhead's but Pinhead will be in for a bad time against SWF's
Yeah, he's got the 'Pig problem' - his kit is designed in such a way that it can be a hassle if the survivors are potatoes and basically do nothing if survivors are good. He probably needs to join Pig, Onryo, Clown and Trapper on the 'we badly need a rework' heap.
-
@Ricardo170373 said:
I a little worry about numbers on steam charts, this game still lose players every month? Why? BHVR do you can explain that? A lot of people doesnt matter about that, but, other people like me, be worry, because i love this game, what’s happening?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/INBY7H2ELKZP/5efb497a-dc24-4ffc-a7c3-cc3cc6979d3f.jpeg
The numbers are fine. APvP games are niche as hell anyway, and it's astonishing how much of a cultural touchstone DbD has become.
That said:
@jesterkind said:
The game saw a gigantic spike in players during the Resident Evil chapter, leading to an all-time-high of players that slowly started to trickle away because a lot of the time people just don't really stick with new games for all that long.
If you're worried about the game's overall health, you'd have to check the numbers from the last 30 days compared to the same time last year, not only six months ago. That's a better indication of how the game's doing, since those numbers would go far enough back not to be affected by the Resident Evil chapter.
This is the first year though that has seen a return to the numbers of last year, suggesting that DbD might just have peaked.
This anniversary is going to be telling.
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903826#Comment_2903826
It's the only info we have.
All you're doing is telling us to not think logically and simply assume the game is fine elsewhere, despite the fact that the game performs significantly WORSE performance-wise on consoles
It's really tricky. I'd say that numbers have certainly stagnated. Was last year a fluke of RE, anniversary and lockdown? Has DbD just peaked?
Again, this anniversary will probably be the best test.
-
@Zachcjjj said:
For a long time i would of personally said nurse but ive come to realise that nurse really only has a high skill floor rather then actually having that high of a skill ceiling and i think nowadays id personally say billy is the hardest killer (including skybilly, curving, etc) but i would like to know who you think is the hardest whether that be blight, billy, nurse or someone else.
There is literally only one answer and it's:
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Hillbilly
Yup.
Put 50 hours into Nurse or Blight, you're stomping faces.
Put 50 hours into Billy and you've just scratched the surface.
-
@AcelynnBen said:
seriously its an end game perk
doesn't help you early or mid game, and it can be easily countered by doing bones
which can be revealed by Detective's hunch and Small game
like honestly if i as a killer could cleanse a hex that gave survivors dead hard i would do it every game, screw killing survivors i will roam the whole map looking for it just so i can get one kill without having to deal with bs
and even with noed a killer can lose, because you know, DS exists and unbreakable and flashlights too
so please for the love of the entity stop f*cking complaining about it, when you as a survivor is running the most toxic build in existence and yet SOMEHOW u still think that killers having ONE clutch perk that works END GAME not middle not early, END GAME, compared to what, boons, dead hard, ds, that can be triggered at ANY TIME is very unfun and unbalanced
Because it's just a frustrating perk to go up against and synergizes too well with certain killer kits.
That said:
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Survivors think they won the game once 5 Generators have been finished, which is wrong
This is also true. I wish there was a middle ground between 'teabagging in the exit gates' levels of 'gens are done, let's go home boys' non threat and 'yay, I played that out perfectly, but got nailed at the wrong moment and now I'm getting camped out of a pip because we can't find that one totem spawn on Midwich' obnoxiousness.
Like...maybe a 2% speed boost for every survivor alive once 5 gens are done?
-
@GamerEzra said:
If you worked at BHVR, what would be the first thing you would change about DBD?
For me it would be:
- Investing more money into a better anti cheat system and an improved report system.
- Removal of SBMM (MMR).
- More focus on QOL of the game.
- Yes
- No.
- Yes
- BBQ and WGFL BP bonus baseline for both sides.
- Useless addons removed from the bloodweb.
- Each level of Prestige further increases BP gains by 15%.
- Tweak maps. Larger ones get smaller, smaller ones get a bit bigger, The Game completely reworked.
- Buff all lower tier killers.
- Give survivors pings and better communication tools.
-
@oskar0ch said:
In my opinion, Pinhead is the absolute worst killer to face in the game currently. If I hear the chain hunt noise at the beginning of the match, I now just immediately DC, I literally couldn't care less, I'd rather move on to another game and not have to endure that torture. Everything about his power is extremely boring and irritating to face, the chain hunts are horribly designed and can completely screw over any team that isn't on comms, and the chains are just annoying. His chase music is annoying and repetitive and the box is just frustrating to handle.
I know there are people who like him for some reason, so I don't think anyone will agree with me, but I just can't stand him. All of you killer mains and swf players, you can't criticize me if you haven't experienced him from solo queue.
He's actually not too difficult, even in a solo group.
- His chains are incredibly telegraphed and easy to juke.
- If nobody is getting the box at about 3/4 full, go yourself.
- Solve it on a ledge or raised platform and teleport won't do anything to you.
- When you solve the box, wait for and dodge the first wave of chains. Number = number of alive and not hooked/slugged survivors -1.
- You can break other people's chains instantly by passing through them.
- Don't mindgame him - just drop the pallet and hold W.
@[Deleted User] said:
I agree. He has the same issue as pre-nerf Freddy. The killer isn't OP on their own, but they synergize ridiculously well with stacked slowdowns. Having even one less skilled teammate will totally throw the game for the entire team against a killer who can make games take forever. Plus there are quite a few things that make him downright annoying to face.
I'd rework Engineer's Fang. His power isn't hard enough to land to warrant that reward.
We know they can make trial items not replace survivor items (VHS tapes and Sadako). The box shouldn't make me drop my item. That's incredibly annoying.
Franklin's and Hoarder shouldn't interact with the box at all. A box chasing forever chain hunt Pinhead might be the most annoying thing in the game to face.
Let me solve the freaking box. I know I've said the word a lot in this post, but it's ANNOYING when you're trying to solve the box and it keeps spamming chains at you.
The only things I'd agree on are making all 'interactive' items not replace carried items (massive QOL) and Franklins...maybe. Hoarder is completely fine.
Yes, he can troll a bit, but that's not unique to him.
Cenobite needs a buff to his kit if you're going to nerf his passive, he's already at the lower end of 'B' tier and we don't need another crap killer.