gatsby
gatsby
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661172#Comment_3661172
I agree with that to some extent. But as the meta is now, it will happen every time they play. What incentive does one have to want to keep trudging through that when they are 'trying the game out'? It's not going to be a positive for the game overall, I would wager.
New players need to experience getting tunneled, yes. Its just apart of the game. But it's thick right now and basically the standard killer experience. I couldn't get some friends to keep playing. Others have stated the same. But yes. New players will get tunneled to some extent.
If you’re trying to get friends to try the game, you have to remember that your account will increase the average skill of the match for matchmaking purposes. So by playing with them you’re actually giving them harder matches.
You might notice that the Killers hardly chase you and tunnel your friends because of the skill difference which makes the game unfun. The only way to avoid that would be getting a fresh account or purposely playing badly to evenly distribute hooks so Killers don’t leave your chases and target your new friends.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/406571/tunneling-is-overblown
Interesting take. I like how level headed you are about this. Lets see if the vibe stays that way. :)
Killers take: Agreed. Now, where does that leave the issue? Killers tunneling optimally isn't exactly the problem. Its tunneling out the gate, 2 seconds into the match. If this survivor team is a top 1% SWF, ok, tunnel your heart out. BUt I dont think anyone on this forum is there, despite ego's abound.
As well, new players. I know its silly to keep hearing this, but if we're gonna hear about the top SWFS that apparently requiree the killer nation to tunnel, then the bottom portion matters just as much. And right now, I'd wager we're bleeding players than retaining due to, yup. Tunneling.
Survivors take: It sucks. Really, thats about it. Good game sense, WoO and such would be a somewhat seasoned player. New players have none of this. So I can't get totally on board, but I do like how you put it all together :)
I think something important to note is that new players will always be tunneled to an extent. If a Killer sees a really obvious weak link, they will tunnel because they know it'll be easy due to the player being a weak link. I don't know if you can ever balance the game to the point where an obviously less skilled survivor doesn't draw the Killer's focus.
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@TheSubstitute said:
If your post is meant to say that tunneling isn't a problem you're missing the nuances in the discussion. Tournaments, for example, are huge tunnel and gen rush fests and survivors do win. There are counters to tunneling. That's not the point of a lot of the discussion.
The point about the discussion is that tunneling is not fun for the other side and that you need both sides to have fun to have a healthy game. As well, it disproportionately affects newer and casual players as the skill floor for tunneling is a lot lower than the skill floor to combat tunneling. Ignoring that tunneling is more prevalent and isn't fun leads to less player retention which is unhealthy for the game and would be as shortsighted as when the VHS devs ignored how unfun the Monster role was for approximately a year.
As well, ignoring the prevalence of tunneling because of high MMR SWFs competing would be as shortsighted as balancing on the top is a mistake for any game that depends on participation instead of spectators for revenue. Players are concerned with whether they're having fun; not whether someone in a tournament or a high level streamer has fun.
The top MMR should definitely be taken into consideration as they are players as well but, if they are the sole consideration, it's not healthy for any game that grows or withers on the basis of numbers participating.
I'm not sure if that was your point (that tunneling can be countered) but that's superfluous to some of the discussion taking place.
I completely agree. Being tunneled sucks when you're learning the game, but I think people misplace their frustration at the game design or the Killer player being "toxic" when they get tunneled. A lot of times the player that gets tunneled is the "weak link" and they don't ever consider that its very noticeable to the Killer.
Because of this, I don't even think that the tunneling some players complain about is fixable or even a problem. Killers will naturally target weaker players in every game. Sometimes players will load into a game where they're vastly at a disadvantage and there's little way to know it. Because MMR is invisible, it doesn't properly discourage people queuing with friends of different skill levels or make the fact that the backfill mechanic has no matchmaking very clear to the average player, which I almost think is a bigger issue actually masked by the "tunneling" problem.
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Dramaturgy is a good perk but it has a skill cap sort of like current Dead Hard. It can get a lot of value but if timed wrong it can sabotage you or be utterly useless. Either making you exposed or being caught in a scenario where it won’t give you enough distance to get anywhere useful. Also, the requirement to be healthy limits its use in tunneling scenarios as it won’t get the same value off hook as most other exhaustion perks.
Basically, all of this makes it pretty inconsistent. People might try it and have a bad experience that makes them drop it from their builds and never bring it back. Its good but not as easy to use as other options.
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Probably something to do with the perks being coded to appear in the bloodweb as default perks.
My guess is that now that they're not default perks they simply can't spawn because you don't have the chapter and never "bought" the perks by either owning the characters or shrine of secrets.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659979#Comment_3659979
Madness IS considered a status effect. You can see its icon on the right side of the screen, not just your HUD profile picture. I think you forgot about the biggest status effect this perk would prohibit, which is exhaustion. This would allow unlimited sprint burst. Would also allow unlimited DH, and even if the killer hits... deep wounds is ALSO a status effect that wouldn't proc.
Its Killer inflicted only. If you inflict it on yourself it still works, hence exhaustion perks, deliverance are still balanced.
Deep Wound is a health state status it never shows up on the side of your screen, so it would still presumably work normally. Doctor's madness isn't actually categorized as a status so they could just remove the de-buff from the side of the screen and tell you in a different way. There's already different survivor profile effects for each tier of madness.
Obviously, this perk would need to Devs to tweak it a little bit and come up with some logic behind what works and what doesn't but the core idea behind the perk is you're Oblivious for the whole game and that prevents you from being statused by other effects that Killers can place on you with addons and perks.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659979#Comment_3659979
Well not Freddy because of his lullaby.
Freddy has a lot of issues in general with his design. Probably one of the most needed Killer reworks
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@kin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/406395/noice-cancellation
the part where this peru prohibits the killer from applying statistic effects is too strong, because it makes the abilities absolutely useless: Unknown,SM,Chostface,Shape,Clown, Doctor and possibly Plague,Artist,Trickster,Freddy, Knight, Singularity,Sadako (I don’t know, they count whether the effects are status effects, but if so, then this is some kind of horror) potentially this perk would beat too many killers to exist
Killer specific power interacts (the ones that change your survivor profile icon) aren't categorized as status effects by the game. Hindered, Mangled, Hemorrhage, Broken, Exposed, Deafened, Exhausted and Blindness are what I am talking about.
The only Killers that would have unusable powers would be Freddy (if he's using blood snares), Ghost Face, Myers and Clown. All of which are 115 movement speed Killers so they're basically just M1 stealth Killers against this perk.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/406395/noice-cancellation
This just sounds like an Idk myers perk
Some Myers go for full stealth builds
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652758#Comment_3652758
Yeah but Wraith, Freddy, Pig, Ghost Face, Demogorgon, Dredge and Skull merchant have 32 meter terror radius.
And it invalidates stealth perks on every other killer too.
It'd be like Distortion. A perk that's strong when played against the right killer and build but sometimes gets very little value. I don't think everyone would run it and like I said if it got crazy popular then Killers could just run Monitor and Abuse which is a stealth perk thats completely immune to this reworked Spine Chill
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652367#Comment_3652367
Okay i probably shouldn't have said that. It wasn't really the main point.
Main point is the ability to retain terror radius against stealth killers and perks is game ruining.
They nerfed original spine chill because of it allowed you to anticipate any killers approach from 36 meters but only if they were looking at you. That allowed for the awkward counterplay of killers looking where they aren't moving to counter it. But mainly it negatively impacted stealth killers the most, their power is a hidden approach and spine chill would reveal it. Only the vault speed boost was problematic, 6% extra on actions wasn't really that impactful.
This rework makes it completely nullify stealth powers and perks. 25% within 16 meters would feel unfair with how the maps are layed out. With 2 floor maps, buildings like coal tower and borgo and maps like hawkins where there is long walls in between generators.
But the main problem with the idea is that it brings back it's problem that was already addressed in a worse form. It does not take into account the past.
Killers like Myers and Onryo already have a small terror radius by default and Monitor and Abuse can still give Killers completely un-counterable stealth. Also the red stain hiding and inability to be aura read while undectable would remain.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652361#Comment_3652361
I know how far 16 meters is. It's onryo's TV distance. When there is walls in the way and multi floors and elevation like stairs it would come into effect fairly frequently. And it would also allow survivors to rush gens in front of the killer which isn't fun and it's something that they've attempted to address with the removal of gen tapping.
But finishing tasks in front of the Killer was one of the things old spine chill used to allow survivors to do when it had a long range and was easier to activate. So I'm trying to channel that into the rework. Maybe the numbers could be dialed back a bit but if they're too low it feels like it doesn't do anything. Maybe like 10/11/12%?
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@OrangeBear said:
This is extreme...
Nullifying killer power and perks is already too much. That's just game ruining
Then increasing action speeds by 25% if the killer is within 16 meters? That's overpowered and even more so on 2 floor maps.
Really not sure why you would look at spine chill's history and think this is reasonable
16 meters isn't actually that far: it's hag with monitor and abuse range. The reason its 16 meters is because that's the range where the Killer can hear generators, grunts of pain, healing noises so you'd likely only be able to use it if the Killer knew you were there and would be quickly interrupted generally. As for the percentage, it's unlikely you'd be able to get very many seconds of it being used because of the range. For context, toolboxes are +50% repair speed and this reworked spine chill might not even be active throughout entire match as long as even a brown toolbox lasts.
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@Selfpreservated said:
The repair speed buff its still too little for it to ever have an impact on the match
Quick Gambit stacks with other instances of itself you have to remember that. So if its an endgame three gen and the killer keeps trying to chase people off gens by starting chases they won't commit to you could have instances of 16% boosts if two people have it
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@Caiman said:
I would gladly trade the meager cleansing/blessing speed buff for a buff to the aura-reading.
My favorite suggestion was to add exit gates, and reveal the auras of any survivors interacting with generators, chests, and exit gates.
I like that. Boon: Wake Up
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@Firellius said:
A boon, which innately requires you to find totems, with an effect that highlights totems?
That still doesn't sound good. I think it was just such a tragically worthless perk that even BHVR was like 'we can't ship it like this, we have to give it -something-, even if it is a survivor perk'.
Maybe but that effect is so oddly specific. The last time they did something like that was Empathic Connection and that 10% boost specifically relates to the design of the perk.
Not saying Empathic Connection is amazing. Both perks are pretty tragic honestly
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@Krazzik said:
How am I supposed to know if my solo queue teammate is using Plot Twist or if they're just getting slugged and have Calm Spirit equipped?
Calm Spirit doesn't make them dead silent when they're on the ground it only suppresses the scream from being downed, so you can tell its Plot Twist when you get there
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Early on when someone Plot Twisted near me I would heal them but never finish the heal. Isn't altruistic healing faster than the time to get yourself back up. Not sure why anyone would waste their Plot Twist when I'm standing right there.
Its a lot less risky after an unhook to split up and heal with plot twist than let the unhooker heal you under hook
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550724#Comment_3550724
blindness definitely does make aura perks ineffective. blindness is anti-soloq status effect because soloq uses aura perks like bond and window of opportunity to not sandbag to avoid sandbagging teammates. that is what @gatsby is talking about. without bond, survivors when looping will just run into teammates that work on generators accidentally sandbagging them. when your swf, your not really doing that because it is losing strategy. free gen pressure. without window of opportunity, survivor will run into pallets that were once there and now became broken creating dead zone effect.
the perk-tax that soloq has to deal with to be as semi-competent swf get turned off by blindness. I had discussion with @BlueBerry789 at one point regarding blindness and why it is not given to killers. soloq is too reliant on aura perks to be fun to play.
Yeah you're right. I am generally a solo queue player and the value of most of the aura perks is allowing for more coordination instead of having the unfortunate sandbagging solo queue messy moments.
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@Maverick_74F said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/348435/the-boon-exponential-rework
With the right squad that would be the most broken perk in the game
Still think that award goes to Power Struggle because with Flip Flop SWFs teams can threaten the pallet save long enough for the Killer to reach a lose/lose scenario where they can’t pick up at all.
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@dspaceman20 said:
I feel like this would be too strong. I say just increase wiggle speed by 100%
I wouldn’t mind that actually. Keeping the perk similar to how it is on Live servers but adding the wiggle speed increase. Could be really interesting and give it a niche over Unbreakable
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
If it would heal mabye half or even 1/3 of a health state i think it would be fine. very strong but its a boon so it SHOULD BE. but a full health state is 2 much
No one uses Reactive Healing or the Jane perk that grants partial healing progress whose name I can’t remember.
Partial healing sucks because it requires a med-kit, self-care or circle of healing to finish the heal, which kinda defeats the purpose since you’re now using two perk slots or a perk slot and an item slot.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Ow no i don't like that.
That's just insane in swf. Imagine chasing someone and suddenly they heal a healthstate out of nowhere cause another teammate called out to them that they will start healing in the boon area
Would also make it harder to pick up on hackers. Survivors should never just heal out of nowhere without there being a clear sign why the heal happened like medkit dissapearing or being broken first or all gens being done
The problem with exponential isn't that it doesn't bring enough vallue (not less then before anyway) but that unbreakable gives the same passively with no setup or whatever.
Nerf unbreakable to a reasonable state and exponential will be fine again
Well the Boon is the giveaway just like current Exponential. It’s usually pretty obvious when Exponential is in play cause Survivors start getting up way too fast for it to be Unbreakable and the Boon totems can be heard from pretty far away relative to the size of their effect radius.
As a downside to my reworked Exponential, it could have an Aura reveal effect for 8 seconds to every Survivor healed (including the one that activates the perk). This would also give it some synergy with Shadow Step bringing another Boon into more widespread usage.
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Legion is the Killer that it would be strongest against. They’re the most likely Killer to leave multiple Survivors injured at the same time without chasing them.
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@thenegativone said:
That would be way too OP especially since people are going pair it with the healing boon... why not have a new boon effect like vigil or leader while youre in the boon
Even if people use Exponential with Circle of Healing. It’s giving them a reason to use another perk slot on a Boon which only leaves two slots left to bring other perks.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
Usually I'm open to the people's idea's for reworks, but this just ain't it, the only thing it has in common with current exponential is that it only benefits SWF's.
Thematically its similar because it can affect multiple Survivors at once and still has a health state recovering effect.
It has a big potential snowballing effect once it gets started hence it still fits the name Exponential
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199608#Comment_3199608
"Normal" would be whatever happens 51% of the time. 51% of all games with Killer X or Y doesn't involve an Iri add on.
Addons are cheap nowadays since the reduced bloodpoint cost and a lot of those Killers are generally unpopular and only used when players have challenges so they break out the good addons
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199584#Comment_3199584
If you stop lying to yourself by thinking there is a "normal", this gets easier to understand.
A "normal" hag has rusty shackles. A "normal" clown has pinky finger. A "normal" bubba has award winning chili and/or iridescent flesh. A "normal" myers has a tombstone or tuft of hair. A "normal" wraith doesn't always run crazy addons but they pretty much never leave hook cause they think being undectable is an excuse to never leave its not even strong its just annoying.
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Billy. His chainsaw feels so clunky it seems like I have to fight the game mechanics to hit Survivors with it.
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- Hag
- Bubba
- Wraith
- Myers
- Clown
None of these Killers play the game normally. They always camp and bring the strongest addons
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
I just did the challenge with Nurse since she's rarely pallet stunned and doesn't need to break anything. The most punishing aspect for her is the missed hit cooldown.
I did the orange glyph challenge with Nurse and didn't even know what its drawback was until I read this thread
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@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197120#Comment_3197120
I feel like If they want to use a character like Julian or Haddie's brother they'll probably just save them or a future chapter, it makes more sense
But that might take years. The Devs usually only make two original chapters per year and, unlike the licensed chapters, they don't do double survivor releases.
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@Dito175 said:
From a business standpoint, A Re skin will sell way more than a character mentioned in another character's lore. But anyway, I'd rather when original chapters are more self-contained, I like when the cast backstory is diverse and not just: Spirit, Spirit's grandpa, Spirit's dad and etc
Thats literally what I'm trying to say. We can have unique new chapters, while adding in extra content to expand the older ones. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
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@SMitchell8 said:
Ghostface really needs a survivor counterpart (Sidney) or even Doofy 😅
BHVR doesn't have the license for Scream they only have the license for the Ghost Face costume.
They don't have a contract with Wes Craven's estate and probably won't be able to get one because of the way they skirted around the rules with getting Ghost Face and Freddy into the game.
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It's just a thing with thrown projectile Killers. Trickster will hit Survivors around corners too its just less upsetting to people because he needs multiple hits to down and at least some of those are gonna look fair.
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
The reason for that is that fans of those franchises are more likely to get into DBD if they can play as their favorite RE character or let's say Lisa from SH, it's easier for Devs to just make those skins and call it a day
When it comes to the original characters, sky is the limit, but people who know about them are already fans of the game and have the characters.
I am all for expanding the original universe by adding more original survivors, but not as skin but as new survivors who are connected, Felix/Elodie stories and connections are among my favourites in the game and I would love more stuff like that
Behavior seems more interested in creating entirely new Characters and Maps instead of expanding on the existing lore. Most original chapters feel self-contained and we rarely get anything added to them except maybe some tome lore. This is sort of a loophole for the Devs to continue lore and loose ends from previous chapters without committing to a sequel chapter.
For example, I want all five characters that are part of Elodie and Felix's group and it seemed like the Devs were setting up a series of connected chapters, but that never materialized. My hunch is that the Devs like to use their original chapters to experiment with new mechanics and killer powers without being constrained to making them fit a pre-determined character. They make a mechanic they like and create lore to explain the mechanic, which is why chapters feel so disjointed
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@Brokenbones said:
It would still be weak if it didn't have an activation condition, but it does for some reason
IMO it would be cool if the perk gave survivors the 'all seeing/fuming mixtape' effect on regressing generators (As in they can see how much progress a gen that is regressing has from the aura)
That would make it much better and fits the perk thematically very well
That would just buff it to the power level of Buckle Up lmao
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If a Killer wants to tunnel, they will hit the Survivor while they have Endurance to prevent a Dead Hard later on. It's the easiest way to guarantee a quick chase. Because the Devs reduced the individual and stacked power of second chance perks, Killers really don't feel scared of them anymore and will largely just burn through them because even the worst case scenario isn't that bad.
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@kisfenkin said:
Gearhead
I really like Gearhead but it has a massive flaw because the generators hide the Auras half the time.
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@Tranquil_Blue said:
I'd genuinely be interested to see what a 112.5% (4.5 m/s) killer would feel like for both sides.
Of the killers you mentioned, MAYBE Blight could stand to be slightly slower.
I do think its strange that everything is so standardized. And my entire idea of about distinguishing Killers and making them more unique. maybe a 112.5 speed tier (for blight) or a 117.5 speed tier (for sadako) would be interesting.
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@Crowman said:
Pyramid Head already moves at 110% speed when dragging his sword. You wouldn't be changing much on his power for a nerf to his normal speed.
Not that any of these killers really need to be nerfed this way, but with PH it really just shows a lack of understanding of their powers.
I would definitely increase Pyramid Head's range substantially
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3187758#Comment_3187758
The comparison with Demogorgon was to Pyramid Head. Both have extremely small ranges.
I would buff Pyramid Head's range probably double it and plus the main unique point of the Killer is the prediction hits through walls, which has always distinguished him from Demo at loops. Increased range would just let Pyramid Head go for wilder trick shots like hitting a Survivor vaulting a jungle gym tile from the pallet.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3187757#Comment_3187757
If you remove the movespeed penalty and give a 16m attack, that is literally uncounterable the second he catches up.
Not really. It still has the animation cast time which Survivors can dodge even at close range. Pyramid Head always requires some prediction. Even hits on pallet drops and vaults only go through if you correctly assumed what the Survivor would do ahead of time.
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@Jago said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3187733#Comment_3187733
by this logic, Demogorgon should be 110% ?
No Demo doesn't have charges like Blight and Wesker so there's no way to "correct" if your first attack misses or get around structures.
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@Laluzi said:
The only one I think you have a point on is Artist. Blight and Wesker don't have nearly the amount of versatility in loops that you think they do. And Pyramid Head is not a ranged killer any more than Nemesis or Demo are ranged killers.
Increase Pyramid Head's range from 8m to 16m. Remove the movement speed penalty while setting up Punishment attacks. You could make him something unique instead of a reskin of Demo/Nemesis.
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@SuzuKR said:
Wesker and Blight cannot use their powers on every single area and tile and are also melee, so they are 115, because they have to walk normally.
Pyramid Head does not have the range of a ranged killer and walking as a 110 is utterly awful, so he is 115.
Artist is 115 because her power requires pre-placement preparation, can only fire in that placed direction, and cannot be immediately fired the second she’s done winding up the initial charge up.
Blight is strong enough that the 110 nerf without compensation buffs would probably only drop him from SS tier to B+ tier because of his map pressure and his potential at loops where his power is effective.
As for Artist, Wesker and Pyramid Head. I think that 115 speed is a cop-out to make them easier to learn. If the Devs leaned more into their power with some compensation buffs for the 110 nerf, I think they could be more unique and distinguished from the other Killers.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3187733#Comment_3187733
He does not move at normal speed while charging his bound, he moves slower than survivors.
Yes, but nurse can go through walls, her power is usable at loops. Wesker's power is not usable at most loops, just try it.
I'm literally saying that he would move at normal speed while charging his bound as a compensation buff if he was changed to 110. Every post says that
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A Wesker that moves at normal speed while charging his bound attack is better at loops than you're thinking.
And Wesker definitely is a ranged Killer he just launches himself instead of a projectile like Nurse and Blight.
Artist and Pyramid head both have extended range from their power so they're obviously ranged.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
I don't see what information it really gives by itself if the killer doesn't appear around the gen, the gen turns yellow that's it. There are at least 4 perks i can think of off the top of my head that turn a gen yellow for survivors with one of them being wiretap. There's also blast mine itself, better together, and the forgotten trail of torment. A dev has also been quoted as saying it was a bug that has been in the game since blast mine's release, why he felt the need to fix it I don't know, but that is the information he gave. It had nothing to do with wiretap specifically, let's stop theorizing.
The only generator trap setting perk is “fixed” when the second generator trap perk is introduced. It’s almost revisiting the generator trap mechanic prompted the devs to make changes.
Even its not for the reason I mentioned, Blast Mine’s nerf is extremely likely to be connected to Wiretap’s introduction.
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@Config said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3183781#Comment_3183781
Lithe u need to vault, and sprint is stoping to do it mid chase, unless u 99 it. It's basically "gain a sprint burst every time u drop a pallet."
Kind of but the Killer has to choose to break the pallet, so it's only gonna be unavoidable at god pallets. And the perk is weak against Killers like Nurse, Hag, Spirit and Artist who generally ignore pallets in a way all other exhaustion perks aren't