StarLost
StarLost
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@Reinami said:
They buffed it for nurse players. it's now actually going to be a solid nurse perk.
Only if they want to heavy slug, which is something on BHVR's radar to change already.
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Awesome movie that nobody saw, sadly. See also:
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SOIYW1LJYBKJ/image.png
BHVR says "one perk should never be the undisputed best choice." So this means Dead Hard should be getting a major nerf, right?
The sad part?
Pain Resonance was used more than Eruption, which was at a...what? 17-20% usage rate?
(Looks at survivor perk usage rates, sighs angrily and goes back to leveling Ace).
What really grinds my grapes about this entire thing is that BHVR said that they wanted to make the killer meta more varied, as back then it was either PR+DMS, Ruin, Pop or some combination of these.
So they buffed Thana and Eruption, nerfed Ruin and Pop, nerfed Overcharge of all things (outside of the bug, I still maintain that vanilla OC was actually better than the new one), then nerfed Thana and now Eruption. All while buffing faster gen perks and adding more of the sodding things.
Meaning that the only game in town is going to be Pain Resonance. We've gone down from a stale meta of three to a meta of one.
And...what do you think happens to Pain Resonance now?
Are BHVR going to buff killer regression perks to compete, or are they going to nerf PR?
Before you answer - Twins and Nemesis addon nerfs.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341365#Comment_3341365
Yeah. I'd developed a habit of just teabagging angrily whenever I got kicked off a gen and there was another survivor to dance with because I literally could not do anything better with my time. Couldn't even open a damn chest. Incapacitation should never be applied to survivors by another means than the killer's direct attention. As a passive effect, it's not only too strong, it's patently obnoxious.
The Incapacitation also led me to a few situations where another survivor got pissed with me because they didn't understand why I wouldn't heal them or work on a gen with them. 25s is a long time.
The really frustrating part is that, running Empathy, I was actually getting pretty sharp at dodging Eruption. Like...occasionally I'd waste a bit too much time not working on that gen, but the only time it would catch me was an instadown killer.
There were much, much better ways of doing this - and people were suggesting them left right and center.
I hate to be a tinfoilhatter, but it's times like this where it's hard not to think BHVR have some sort of animus against killer players.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341371#Comment_3341371
Why are you surprised? We got over a year of BHVR telling survivors they care about the survivor experience, months of BHVR telling survivors they care about survivor accessibility issues, and now we get buff after buff for survivors, and zero anything for killers. Why on earth was anyone expecting BHVR to help with killer frustrations, when they refuse to talk about it at all, and instead just give survivors patch after patch of good things for survivors?
That Thana nerf hurt my soul, because that was just meanspirited. Not 'oh, this perk is annoying so we're changing it a bit' - full on 'we don't want you to ever use this perk again, stay mad'.
And yes, that's frustrating.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341352#Comment_3341352
It wasn't the regression part for me anyway,it was the freaking 25 secs of being USELESS 😂
Sure.
And, as I and others suggested, it should have been a gen block.
But - and you're welcome to check my post history, because yet again I frigging called this - that wasn't going to happen. Because when BHVR nerf a killer perk, the goal is to effectively remove it from the game. See Ruin, Pop, Thana, OC.
There are some very rare exceptions, but those are exactly that.
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341330#Comment_3341330
No it isn't.
It WILL be a niche perk now on like two killers IF the changes that we've only just heard about go through the PTB and onto the live servers, which is not a guarantee. The time to bemoan Eruption being a dead perk and start doomsaying about how it's a slippery slope to more nerfs is- well, never, that's never appropriate. But the time to criticise this change for being too much is when it actually happens.
That, or criticise it on the PTB feedback forum if you're on PC and can test.
When is the last time BHVR walked back a nerf to a killer perk? I'm...actually struggling to remember more than one.
Again, the word of the day is 'precedent'.
We know what BHVR are going to do because that's what they have always done in the past.
We are giving feedback. AFAIK, the PTB isn't open.
Also - why are you playing forum cop? If you don't agree with feedback, then you don't have to. But saying 'well, you shouldn't be allowed to give this feedback yet because I say so'...not sure what that's about.
Once again - it's going to go live as is. Because that's what happened to Thana, Ruin, Pop etc. despite people telling BHVR that they were junking the perks.
BHVR know their game. They know what changes will do. Take a look at Thana and tell me there was no malice or deliberate overnerfing there.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341286#Comment_3341286
Ruin and POP were changed in the 6.1 update, they nerfed multiple killer and survivor perks in that update and didn't buff any back until now, so that doesn't count.
Overcharge was buffed, the PTB version was never live, and the perk is still good, just gets overshadowed by COB, but even then has an insane synergy with it.
And thana was so bad that overtuned because of gen time increased, also if a perk is memed by both survivors and killers, its kinda of a giveway that it's gonna get touched.
Besides, Pain Res doesn't offer the big problem of passive slowdown or stalling gameplay, it's a reward for the killer for progressing the game. Unless they want to make more shake ups to regular mechanics and perks like they did in 6.1, i think PR is fine.
If a perk is strong but healthy, then let it be.
- Wrongo. Thana was buffed, and promptly nerfed to worse than it was before 6.1.0, purely due to forum QQ. Ruin and Pop...why don't those count? If the goal is to make the meta more varied, and BHVR take steps to make the meta specifically less varied by removing viable options (and now literally paring them down to 1 viable option) that's absolutely relevant.
- Overcharge is a trap. It's like self care now. It takes 12 seconds for the regression to reach the same rate as regular regression, meaning that in most situations you'd be better off with an empty slot. The only reason you saw it much was the synergy with Eruption (also CoB).
- CoB is mediocre. A single gen tap completely negates it. Again, you only saw this a lot because of Eruption.
- Thana was a little overtuned, but - and this is my exact point here - rather than tweaking it as they did with Dead Hard and the like, they basically removed it from the game. It's objectively worse than it was *before the buff*. Why would the devs deliberately make a perk not worth using on anyone if there wasn't some sort of animus in play?
- PR is a fair perk. So was Ruin. So was Pop. So was BBQ. So was old Billy and Slinger. So was those nerfed Twins addons and that Nemesis addon. These were all things that were fair, but were nerfed either because of forum QQ or simply because they were used too much - even in cases where they were used too much literally because they were the only decent option (see Twins and Nemesis addons). Being fair doesn't mean it won't get destroyed. It's all about how much people complain and how much it's used.
- Yes, I wish that 'strong but healthy' meant that a perk wouldn't get gutted. But see above.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341268#Comment_3341268
It's still a useful perk, it's just not going to completely carry players now. You still have synergy with CoB and PGTW. It's not out-of-this-world game delay, nor should be.
It's absolutely not a useful perk outside of a very specific playstyle that *BHVR have already clearly indicated they will be removing*.
Hence the baseline UB thing that, while not confirmed, definitely means that some change is coming.
How on earth is this useful outside of a high mobility killer that's looking to hard slug? The regression is utter garbage and the aura reading is going to be useless for anything else.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341243#Comment_3341243
No they will totally nerf PR. When it becomes the number one used perk alongside DMS the survivors will flood the forums once again and complain about it and the devs then will nerf it to the ground as they do with every strong overused killer perk. They did it with Thana, Overcharge, Ruin, Pop, and now eruption. If you think PR is safe you kidding yourself. No killer perk is safe if it's the most used killer perk,s unlike DH which was num one before its rework and still num on after its rework.
Mm.
People forget that Dead Hard had usage rates exceeding 70% - and was left unchanged for years. And when it was changed, it was given the most gentle of love-tap nerfs, reworked into something still really powerful.
But yeah, watch this space. The first 'PR+DMS is boring and unfair to solos, BHVR is so killer sided if this isn't nerfed by tomorrow' thread is already germinating.
@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341251#Comment_3341251
BBQ wasn't nerfed, the extra BPs didn't really affect a match.
Self-care, i guess it was stupid. But the perk was already bad in the first place, never seen a perk get complained by killers and survivors at same time.
I think Pain Res is fine. And i don't see many survivors complain about pain res, unless DMS is involved. But even that combo is fine.
BBQ was absolutely nerfed - the extra BPs were extremely healthy to the game as it encouraged killers to spread hooks.
Barely anyone ran this for the info.
Self care was a fine perk - it served a purpose. Now it's basically a killer perk.
Yes, that combo is fine.
Guess what?
Pop was fine. So was Ruin. So was PTB Overcharge.
What happened to those perks?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341251#Comment_3341251
That's kind of misleading, don't you think?
Like, yeah, those two perks did get nerfed because of high usage numbers... in the one specific update that was specifically geared towards shaking up a stale meta, something people had been complaining about and asking them to do for literal years beforehand. I don't see much evidence that the devs nerf based on pickrate alone, normally it's a perk that's picked pretty often because it's too strong and actually warrants the nerf.
They are pretty much the same thing though.
My point is that BHVR have, since the 6.1.0 PTB, deliberately junked almost all the viable regression perks.
Thana? Worse than pre 6.1.0.
Ruin? Lol.
Pop? Meh.
Overcharge? Didn't even make it off the PTB, now worse than an empty slot a lot of the time (12 seconds is absurd).
Eruption? Bye bye.
So now it's going to be Pain Resonance all day, every day. Probably with DMS. Not because PR is fun, but because it's the only real game left in town.
So...what next?
Well.
Within a month, it's going to be wall to wall 'PR+DMS is unfair to solos and boring to face, nerf please'. And, once again, the word of the day is 'precedent'.
Yeah, I'm actually pretty salty about this one, because for a long while it looked like the developers were finally going to be a little more even-handed and considerate when it came to the killer experience.
@Quizzy said:
I say good. Maybe the gen kicking meta will die down a bit. But i can honestly still see slugging killers taking advantage of this more after dkwning someone. At least there is a skill part in that regard.
This is only good if you actively hate killer mains and want them to be miserable.
There was never a 'gen kicking meta'. There was a regression meta, same as always - because a lethality meta will never be a thing and info perk get redundant fast.
Now it's still going to be a regression meta, but revolving around a single perk.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341225#Comment_3341225
You're not understanding why it's still gonna be good on those killers. Being able to down someone on Oni or Billy and instantly know where more survivors are is very powerful. I don't know why you're comparing it to surge and pain res because the regression is not the point it's the information and the regression is a bonus. It's a completely different category of perk now.
It's only going to be good if you want to go for a heavy slug.
Which is something that BHVR are actively looking to change - hence the whole 'baseline UB' thing.
Do you...really want to see more mass slugging?
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@Gamall said:
The game over the years is slowly taking a direction in favour of the killers with small changes with each update.
The change in eruption means nothing.
If a perk is sick it should just be cured
...What?
Eruption is gone. Meaning that we're now officially worse off variety wise than we were pre 6.1.0.
How on earth is that good for the game overall?
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@BlueHorkew said:
Eruption is dead, good.
Also i doubt they will nerf Pain Res, its one of the most fair regression perks i doubt they would touch it, it would be really unnecessary.
Why is anything being dead good?
Because...it makes killer mains suffer? Because basically removing a perk from the game (rather than reworking it Dead Hard style to still be good) is the exact opposite.
The problem is that now we're looking at a meta of a single perk and supporting perks - meaning that we're now officially in a less varied meta than we were pre 6.1.0, which was the thing they wanted to change.
And...'fair' has nothing to do with it.
Pop was fair, and they nuked it.
Overcharge was fair, and that didn't even make it off the PTB.
Ruin was fair, and it's not worth using anymore.
Mark my words - in a month, we'll be seeing the same volume of 'PR is boring and unfair to solos, nerf plz' threads that we did about Eruption and Thana.
@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341243#Comment_3341243
This is the same team that nerfed Self-Care because its usage numbers were too high. Same with BBQ.
It's definitely a possibility. They will nerf things for no other reason than to try and create diversity.
The really sad part?
Things were decent for a while after 6.1.0. A few things needed tweaks, but BHVR decided to go at them with a blowtorch and pliers, and now we'll actually be worse off - with a single viable regression perk, and that perk requiring basically a full build to support.
It's going to be really, really dull to play against too.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341207#Comment_3341207
How save front page. Duh.
Eruption is a dead perk. Huntress or nurse might use it but honestly I think they have better things to do than kick gens to maybe hopefully get value out of aura reading at some point. While I don't have it and I didn't enjoy playing against it, it's a shame to see killer meta options shrink.
@jesterkind said:
Not quite the point, I'm sure, but what does HSFP mean in this context?
Hyperfocus + Stakeout + Fogwise + PTS in a 4man SWF.
Not all those perks on every survivor (you'll generally see 3 plus DH or CoH) but it allows all the gens to be done in about 4 minutes (often faster than the killer can kill you) if you go to a small map, and also gives 100% uptime on killer aura reading.
It's...basically the old genrush + OoO style and I'm starting to see it more.
@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341207#Comment_3341207
How save front page. Duh.
Eruption is a dead perk. Huntress or nurse might use it but honestly I think they have better things to do than kick gens to maybe hopefully get value out of aura reading at some point. While I don't have it and I didn't enjoy playing against it, it's a shame to see killer meta options shrink.
It's going to be useful if you want to heavy slug on Nurse or Blight. So...yay, more of that I guess?
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@Entitled_survivor said:
First, Eruption will now cause the generator to lose 10% of its current progress, not total. This means the effect will be less severe on generators with less progress, but more impactful on generators that are nearly completed. Second, Eruption will no longer apply the Incapacitated effect to Survivors who were repairing the generator when it exploded. Instead, Survivors who are actively working on the generator will scream and reveal their aura to the Killer for 10 seconds. Not only will this make the perk less frustrating for solo players, but it will also give the Killer crucial information on the other Survivors’ whereabouts so they can attempt to interrupt them.
Thoughts? i was already using distortion every now and then and this seems like a solid benefit to it
It's now a dead perk.
Meaning that...we'll be seeing 50%+ Pain Resonance usage rates, so that's next.
Sigh.
I hope you're all very, very proud of yourselves.
@Gandor said:
Thank you for this change. Finally it will become possible to actually try to break 3gen no matter which killer. Very healthy. Thank you very much developers.
Now imagine you're a killer player, and are seeing more and more straight up hard genrush squads.
Welcome to the new killer meta - which is going to be more stale than the pre 6.1.0 Ruin/PR meta.
@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341179#Comment_3341179
No one is forcing you or any killer to use the perk anymore, but you know what ? i'm glad it won't carry mediocre players like old DS/UB/DH did for survivors
Except that every single one of those perks is still a very solid, very viable pick.
Eruption is now about on par with the new Pop. It's...crap.
@FMG15 said:
They finally killed that insanely unhealthy perk. The game health won once again.
Is this really an improvement to game health? I think it's the exact opposite.
We'll now have a killer meta that is basically one build. Even pre 6.1.0 wasn't that bad.
Ugh.
@Xendritch said:
I think it'll be more niche now which is fine, you don't play this on every killer anymore but I like it for Billy, Oni and Myers. It's a variation of infectious fright now with a little bit of regression.
It's going to be terrible. You'd be better off running Surge on those killers. Or, better yet, Pain Resonance. On everyone.
@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341171#Comment_3341171
10 secs of aura reading is huge for some killers with high mobility or snipe potential like nurse / huntress/ blight / billy perhaps though i do agree it should get a slight buff like +5% regress or smth ,on the average m1 killer it has now become mediocre
It's 10% of aura reading at a time where you really don't need it.
The only thing this will enable is...yup, yet again - heavy slugging on Nurse or Blight. Which they can already do with FOR or IF.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah dead perk now.
We're gonna see PR and Joly skyrocket in use rate as everything else left is trash and they essentially just get defaulted. Then those will be nerfed because they're high in usage rofl.
Eruption is what made kicking gens worth it, Overcharge and CoB alone don't make kicking worth it.
Surge/Jolt is only really decent on instadown killers and even then...it's mediocre.
I had a game on Ghostface on Gideon against an HSFP (Hyperfocus + Stakeout + Fogwise + PTS) 4man and even with Surge going off pretty much constantly, I simply couldn't kill them fast enough. Gens just exploded.
Ugh.
Well, it was fun while it lasted.
What does annoy me though is that this is yet again another example of how differently BHVR treats survivor perks and killer perks when it comes to nerfing.
And yes, it's going to be 50-60% Pain Resonance pick rate, which - as I predicted - will see the QQ train now focus on PR+DMS until they gets gutted too.
Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed about this.
@Laluzi said:
Yeah, Eruption's dead. It's much worse now than it was in its original state, where it was subpar compared to other options but still usable. Currently, Eruption takes much more time to use than Jolt or Pain Resonance while providing less in return. Zero reason to use it over Call of Brine or Overcharge if you want a gen kicking perk.
Like, I'm happy they nerfed it, because Eruption was absolutely horrible to verse, but they missed the point. They needed to ditch Incapacitation as a status effect that could be applied on passive, non-chased survivors, and strengthen the perk in some other, less obnoxious way, not weaken it further. The aura reading is not very useful because you generally knew where the affected survivors were anyway on account of the screaming. You know, "I kicked that gen, I head Jane and Yui scream when I downed Dwight, there's two over there."
I dunno, it just always seems like they go in with a jackhammer where they only needed a chisel and leave rubble behind. Though I will say they've made a ton of recent changes to the game that I'm utterly thrilled about, so credit where it's due, things are definitely on the upswing despite this misstep.
Imagine if BHVR treated killer perks like Dead Hard.
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@bm33 said:
I'm genuinely surprised they didn't replace incapacitation with entity blockers.
See - that would have been the smart way to do this. Or, if you want to go down this route - amp up the regression!
But no, they completely removed the incap, nerfed the regression into the ground (10% of current progress is hilariously bad) and added a janky aura reading that...you'd be better off running PR+FoR+DMS.
Which is what we're going to see. Pain Resonance...basically every game.
Meaning that PR will be the next perk nerfed, because that's now going to basically be the only decent option.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341068#Comment_3341068
I think you've been playing online since before I was born.
Likely, yeah. I'm middle aged XD. My first gaming console was a bootleg NES.
@Hawk81584 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341081#Comment_3341081
you seem to be leaving out the fact that killers have the roll where they play toxic looking for the negative response intentionally, and act surprised when they get it. Of course the side that generally gets tunneled out and camped is more likely to be more pissy at the end of a match. i watch certain killer streams where the goal is to catch "SALT", then go and make youtube videos where they are shocked at the other person's behaviour. Tit for tat if you ask me. But thats apparently what stream viewers and youtube channels are looking for.
That's absolutely not true.
Survivors can basically take the game hostage and never be banned for it.
I'd rather be bled out or camped any day of the week than have 3 people hiding in lockers, never getting AFK crows and stalling the match out for an extra 45 minutes because they feel like being butts.
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@survivorsareaplague said:
why is this such a rampant problem in this community? im mainly talking about survivors, but survivors mention that killers are also toxic at times. do most of you just like being that way or are you just competing to see how much fun you can suck out of playing dbd for others?
Basically? Because BHVR wills it so.
They seem to be stuck in the early 2010's with the mindset of there being something worth retaining about the nastier sides of gaming/the internet. It's very odd, as - on the other hand - they spend a lot of energy trying to maintain an image as a hard-progressive company.
Nobody wants DbD to be Club Penguin. But I also personally don't want it to be CS:GO.
@Shroompy said:
DbD has just as much toxicity as any other game. The reason why Survivors seem much more toxic than killers is because you encounter more Survivors than you do Killers.
@Xernoton said:
It's a problem in every online multiplayer game. DBD just manages it poorly. I know of a few games that will penalize toxicity with chat restrictions and even bans. DBD on the other hand? Ehh, it's not like it's allowed but no one really cares.
@Moonman157 said:
Eh, I’ve always found the toxicity of this community overstated, I’ve only ever experienced truly horrible stuff maybe twice( things like misogyny, racism, homophobia). This kind of behaviour sounds rampant in other gaming communities, my friend plays Valorant and it often sounds like a nightmare. I will say DBD might have the whiniest community though.
Eh...
I've been playing online since Quake 2.
About the only games more/as consistently toxic as DbD is would be pre-Tribunal League of Legends, CS:GO, some of the early MMOs, Smite, EVE Online, early XBL, the original DOTA map and a few others.
This is not company you want to be in.
Yes, there's always a bigger horse - but that's neither here nor there. It's mildly annoying how people always insist on turning this into a toxicity Olympics.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340734#Comment_3340734
I've been apart of a lot of gaming communities since 2014.
DBD is by far the most toxic, perhaps only being challenged by old CoD.
The old XBL is probably one of the most uniquely horrible communities of all time, but...yeah, see above.
@Dinan said:
"im mainly talking about survivors'" tell me youre a killer main without telling me you are a killer main. Of course """"survivors"""" are more toxic because there are 4!!!!! that means the chance you get a toxic person is A LOT more likely. the thing is that toxic survivors dont ruin games only sandbagging survivors do, meanwhile the killers actually has the biggest impact with toxicity, facecamping and tunneling and slugging. it is much worse than simply teabagging, getting mad about teabagging just shows your fragile ego.
I'll take 'Things That Aren't Toxicity' for 400, Alex.
These are cheese. Much like a 6pool or spawn camper.
@SpaghettiVase said:
Anyone who says dbd is "just like any other gaming community" I think really need a wake up call. I have played every "toxic" game under the sun (League, overwatch, CoD, CSGO, Etc.) and i have never seen a community or at least a portion of the community willing to celebrate changes that are inherently bad for the game as long as it affects the other side. People were openly celebrating not even a month ago at the POSSIBILITY that Bubba wasn't going to be purchasable. DBD really attracts the worst types of people.
Starcraft 2.
But again, there's always a bigger horse.
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@Unam said:
Some Ideas to fix things:
1. Remove the Struggle phases. If a survivor gets hooked, they are able to spectate other survivors and ping/mark different locations (e.g. there is a gen, there is a pallet, killer is there, etc)
2. If a survivor is sacrificed, they can return as a ghost, and do the same. But without the fixed angle of spectating, they can now move freely. But this time, they dont see the killer or anything that has to do with his ability (like traps). They can still ping/mark or set diversions. And therefore assist their team in winning.
3. Survivors earn bloodpoints as a team. All actions get into one BP Pool and its either divided by 4 or everyone gets the same amount. (Depending on the numbers). If someone DCs, everyone (incl killer) gets extra bps.
- If it wasn't for SWF, this would be a fantastic idea.
- I actually really like this idea...but I have a feeling this will be mostly used to troll.
- Yes.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
- Most of his addons are much weaker. There aren't that many good addons.
- His base kit recharge of tokens is bit slower.
- Reworked colision (no more techs, etc.)
Note: I am NOT asking for such changes, I am just saying would YOU play him if he got "Billy 2.0" pass.
Probably not, no. Billy/Freddy 2.0 are awful.
The goal isn't to break Blight and make him awful.
- His basekit is 100% fine.
- There is one major problem addon and 2 minor problem addons.
- Collision is janky but that cuts both ways.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340163#Comment_3340163
for me as the killer - it's scaring survivors. like when you can tell you ACTUALLY just made them jump.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340237#Comment_3340237
I love Dredge for that! That teleport can keep people guessing on your whereabouts, and especially in Nightfall you can get some great scares in!
Scratched Mirror Myers and a Lery's offering is just cruel.
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@RaccoonInATrenchCoat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337137#Comment_3337137
The gen kick meta is the easiest killer has ever been, its genuinely mind numbingly easy most of the time
PTS only saves 5 seconds if the survivors were on the gen for the entire duration, uninterrupted.
How many Hyperfocus Stakeout built to last commodious have you really seen? Ive seen maybe one or two, and I know most people who run the perk dont even get full value due to rng and simply missing the skillcheck.
Killer is genuinely easy right now for the most part. Some maps are bad, but there are a lot of good killer maps too. Also, youre complaining about fogwise? Next youll say Resilience is too strong because it lets you o gens 10% faster when injured
Sigh.
Okay, let's go step by step.
- Define 'easy'. Compared to the game a few years ago, sure. Now watch the community cup with killers running the most evil perks in the game, slugging, camping, tunneling, on a killer sided map, against survivors with extreme restrictions on their perks and items - and still struggling to get a single kill. Easy?
- PTS...yes, 5 seconds on top of how many seconds shaved off working 2 on a gen? Now combine that with other perks.
- In my own games? Like...4? But here's the thing. A. There's always the potential of it, B. It's stupidly powerful and C. I've seen 1 'holding a 3gen from the start with Eruption' game in over a thousand, and the forums are still wall to wall with threads on it - so clearly HSFP is fair game.
- Name 5 good killer maps that aren't DDS or Midwich. And when I say 'good', I'm talking the equivalent of Garden of Joy (which can have an infinite). Because I can name you 5 good survivor maps that aren't GoJ.
- Fogwise...okay. Remember OoO? Fogwise is stronger in a 4man.
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@Gamergirl69OWO said:
Just had a game on RPD with an obviously cheating Claud named poofart32(othernumbers I dont remember), but she would constantly pick up players while teleporting around. Before I could realize what was going on I picked her up once and tried to avoid her afterwords.
Am I doomed? I Dced when it was just me and him left to avoid any looks that I was helping the cheater and I reported him at the endscreen. I play on xbox and have no evidence but I assume BHVR can look over the game and see what was going on
No, you did nothing wrong.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340031#Comment_3340031
I didn't check but other guy said it's normal. I can't believe it really they must hate killers these devs. I play both sides.
The only boons that scare me are CoH and occasionally Shadowstep.
That said - a full boon build has glaring weaknesses, especially in that if you find the boon and stuff it, they have basically no perks.
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@kjolnir said:
...and this is how I'm being matchmade. Not even P2 on Huntress yet.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/51QXJI0QR0B9/2023-02-08-281-29.png
Here's the thing.
When you play a new killer, you get matchmade at (apparently) just below the MMR of your highest MMR killer.
Don't ask me why.
That said:
@kjolnir said:
Uh huh yes please tell me how more how there's no skill gap here. Such a dumb thing to argue. Someone with over 1K hours playing the same character is going to better than me with two games under my belt with a killer that's not easy to play.
Never fails that the "time played has no correlation whatsoever to a player's ability" crowd is trampling each other to see how quickly they can opine with the same demonstrably false nonsense.
There is no other discipline, sport, or pastime where people argue this straight donkeybrain foolishness.
That's...literally not what they said.
Nobody said 'hours played'. They said 'prestige'.
I used to, for example, stick a whole bunch of killer BP into my Cheryl before I even started playing survivor.
Time played = experience. Prestige doesn't mean much, as this could easily be a killer main.
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340169#Comment_3340169
I didn't say CoB I said CoH, a survivor perk.
Pfft, haha this is me tired.
So you did.
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@Amaros said:
Me and my friends have been getting a LOT of afk killers recently, we didn't mind it at first but getting 3 of them in a row and depiping in iri 3 cause you can't be in "chase" for longer than 5 seconds with a basic attack killer gets frustrating.
"Just report" yeah, we do. That doesn't mean I don't still get them.
I saw people complain about afk killers a lot a couple of weeks ago but I didn't get them then, now it's like a huge wave.
Also, what's the point of that? Genuinely asking, there's a softcap on mmr and you don't really get a lot of bp for a 4 man escape, no chase and no downs anyway.
Yeah, it sucks - just keep reporting.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339959#Comment_3339959
Circle of Healing for Eruption is a trade I will make every time.
Yup.
Thing is - I'm not really sad to see Eruption go (I just hope they actually make it into a decent perk).
I'm sad that we're already looking at a regression meta less varied than it was pre 6.1.0. And that sucks.
@yauniqua said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340146#Comment_3340146
that's cuz you play killer.
stop acting brand new, i've seen your posts on these forums.
i remember when you had a freddy kreuger pfp
In now creeping up on 1,100 games that I've played and/or watched on stream, I've never seen this happen.
Not once.
I've seen Eruption win games and I've seen Eruption do nothing - and everything in between.
An actual hostage situation? No. Because that's actually bannable when killers do it.
@Firellius said:
I don't know if it's going to be some kind of 'meta shakeup', I think Eruption's just gonna get a change to make it not pause survivors' games for 25 seconds. I don't know if they're going to hit CoB, they might do something about its synergy with perks that damage multiple gens at once. They maybe might knock Pain Res down a little bit? I can't see them doing anything to Overcharge and certainly not to Deadlock, as, IMO, that is Pinhead's weakest perk.
Killer needs strong regression much more than survivor needs strong 2nd chances
Hard disagree. The term 'second chance' has been tossed around a lot but really only applies to DH and maaaaaybe Unbreakable. OTR, DS, BT and the like are all counterperks meant to ensure that a survivor's gameplay doesn't end at first hook, which is how the game was originally designed.
Are you sure this isn't a conspiracy by BHVR to actually secretly nerf Unbreakable, make killer regression triple the current effectiveness, assassinate the director of Valve and replace us all with a master race of robotic penguins??
@bm33 said:
Perks that are problem perks (eruption/CoH) I'm happy for them to adjust. My main concern is they'll do ridiculous nerfs to perks that are in a good spot just because they consider them to be high use and not because they are a problematic perk in need of a nerf. They did that in the first perk overhaul, perks that were in a good spot but just popular were made useless to make them be picked less not because they needed a nerf - I'm worried that will happen again.
CoB is in no way a 'problem perk'.
The only reason it sees all that much usage now is synergy with Eruption.
Once Eruption gets gutted, PR will be all you see.
EDIT: I'm a derp. You actually said 'CoH'.
Yeah, that perk needs to go away.
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@yauniqua said:
i punish killers for camping and tunneling by going try-hard on my loOp skillz.
...
How is that punishing anyone?
Loop me all you want - the most fun part of this game is chasing. It's when survivors spent 3/4 of the match sitting in a locker that it bothers me.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339518#Comment_3339518
i wouldn't go so far as to say killed. flashlights - even instablind flashlights - are pretty useless with how most players use them. because the game is like 90% sound to begin with. if you blind me while i break a pallet or while i'm doing an animation - unless i actually get stunned i can still hear you and orient myself in your direction. sometimes even hitting survivors in the process.
lightborn is a pretty weak perk to bring when you could bring enduring or brutal strength. i'm not even sure if it protects the wraith, nurse, and other similar killers. it definitely doesn't benefit the hag. so 🤷🏻♂️ idk.
like... i'm not going to bring sloppy butcher just because i see 4 medkits in a lobby. i'm going to bring sloppy butcher because i think it is better than the alternatives
because like... even if i did it's not like i can determine rarity on most items or predict chests in the match.
If you're really sharp with flashlights, Residual Manifest is crippling to a lot of killers.
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@PowZapBamWoofMeow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339516#Comment_3339516
This.
Not to derail, but Why do Survivors get last minute swap and killer doesn’t?
As far as win rates, no one likes being tunneled and camped. Why do killers do it? Because the game is unbalanced. Because weak killers. Bad maps. Bad RNG. Bad loops , double window vaults, etc
Killer should be the power role. Does that mean killer should always win & stomp? Absolutely not. But agsinst competent survivors or 4 man SWF Killer especially the weaker ones don’t stand a chance many times.
Since the core mechanics of the game won’t change, something else has to.
Because MMR, essentially.
It stops killers from tanking the MMR on one killer, then queueing on it, then swapping to their best killer and roflstomping newbies.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339815#Comment_3339815
it's not a new conditional
What other game function uses this?
Hook states, I'm guessing? Like...this isn't rocket surgery levels of coding. It's pretty much just an IF/THEN/ELSE condition.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339753#Comment_3339753
You're picking up the wrong razor, I'm using that one.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339777#Comment_3339777
I think people aren't thinking this through.
If they really -only- wanted to address the 'perma-hook' issue, why add the 'once per hook instance, per survivor' stipulation? That's a new conditional that didn't exist yet in the game, so it's not some numerical adjustment, which would've worked, nor is it a pre-existing condition that could be copy-pasted from another perk.
Why put in -extra- work to make a -less- tailored solution?
I think that you're being ridiculous and seeing the Loch Ness Monster instead of a bunch of sticks.
Not going to get into the coding here, because neither of us know exactly how this is coded, but intuitively speaking, it's not a new conditional - it's something that already exists in the game.
You don't know it's extra work, unless you are now about to claim you work at BHVR.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339728#Comment_3339728
So if BHVR said 'We want to buff No Mither' and the first and only thing they do is remove the sound reduction on it, would you still believe that they actually intended to buff it?
Words speak louder than actions, I suppose?
Are you familiar with Ockham's Razor?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339632#Comment_3339632
I don't mind the first idea, but I was there for the reass 'nerf', and it wasn't 'killer mains' demanding the nerf, it was survivors worried about being griefed.
No, it wasn't. I know that's what BHVR claims it was, but the nerf they chose says different. They could've opted for any number of measures to make the perk not keep survivors on the hook indefinitely, which is a scenario that would require all three other survivors AND the killer to cooperate for that, so that would still be incredibly unlikely to occur, but they went for the absolute most crippling nerf, inventing new conditionals to make sure this perk would be as weak as possible against camping. If it was once per hookstate, it would've worked. But they made it once per hook -instance-, per survivor. It cannot produce more than 30 seconds now under any circumstance. Even if multiple people bring the perk, it's still locked at 30 seconds and no more than that.
So where before, counterperks like DS would be largely useless unless the killer specifically played that one particular strategy, now we have a counterperk that may not even work, even IF the killer is employing the strategy it is supposed to counter.
You could maybe argue incompetence, but let's be honest: It was harder to make Reassurance as ineffective against camping as it is now, than it would've been to just give it three tokens. This would be the weirdest incompetence I've ever seen.
So I'm just going to say it: BHVR lied. They nerfed Reassurance because they wanted to protect camping.
And yes, there were people on the forums adamantly arguing that Reassurance was punishing camping too much.
(Does a quick search). Nope, not finding anyone credible. For the...fifteenth time? - Do you have any actual examples or are you making stuff up again?
Also...wait, are we really back in 'BHVR are secretly conspiring to fudge over survivor players in favor of killer players despite that making zero rational or financial sense' land?
If you aren't going to believe the developers when they literally come along and say 'this is why we did a thing' - then what's the point of even giving feedback? Clearly they're all just out to get you.
Again - I was there. People said 'oh, this is going to be used to grief people'. BHVR said 'yes, we're going to change it'.
And then they changed it.
Now, you're welcome to your tinfoil hat here, but you need to realize that it makes you (and your alts) look a wee bit silly.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339449#Comment_3339449
DS basekit would be a disaster. DS is already really damn strong when it comes to giving a massive and completely free bodyblock, which - especially if it's done in a coordinated manner when you're carrying a survivor can turn games around.
At that point, it's the coordination that's the problem, not DS. DS isn't a free bodyblock because if the killer doesn't pick you up, it does nothing. You'll still be slugged out.
But don't worry, I've still got you covered: Anti-tunnel mechanisms should be dependent on an effect called 'Desperation', which persists for 80 seconds after unhook, or until conspic action, and Desperation also removed survivor-killer collision for the duration.
There, no more bodyblocks.
Uh...Reass works twice per survivor, right? Not once a trial.
It's once per hook instance, so if the killer camps the hook and prevents an unhook, it can only be used once. The nerfs it got were tailored to make it as weak as it could possibly be against camping, especially for solos.
I don't mind the first idea, but I was there for the reass 'nerf', and it wasn't 'killer mains' demanding the nerf, it was survivors worried about being griefed.
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339570#Comment_3339570
You shouldn’t surrender on hook because even though the game may be over for you and you’ll de-pip, earn fewer bloodpoints and drop in MMR (all tangible measures of loss), you’re helping other players earn more bloodpoints, pip up, and increase their MMR by escaping the trial—which may well come on the back of your loss. We call it ‘sacrifice’ so it doesn’t sting as much. But for some reason DBD is the only game where you’re like expected (mostly by killer mains) to basically give up your enjoyment of the game you’ve purchased so that other people have a good time.
If I had one wish for 2023, it would be that anyone who says 'x mains did y' without substantiating or bothering to specify loses their DbD account.
There are tens of thousands of people on these forums. You can find someone who fits nearly every crackpot opinion you can name. They aren't representatives of anything.
The issue with hook suicides isn't that folks do it when they're being camped.
The issue is that they'll do it on first down, at 3 gens, because they challenged the killer to a chase at shack and lost.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339449#Comment_3339449
I think most people can agree 3k-4k is a win for killer. conversely, that means that not getting 3-4k is loss, so 0-2k is loss.
Survivor is unfortunately team game. Its the nature of asymmetric games. for me, 2 or more people escaping is the survivor winning. Survivor a lot easier to win as but the caveat for survivor is that sometimes your team winning means you dying which can feel bad at times. For example I dislike looping a killer for 4 gens then getting facecamped then dying while my team escapes. that kinda sucks but I understand it is part of team game dynamic.
I don't think depip or piping means anything. When I look at this emblem system, it seems that it was designed with the idea to punish killers for optimal plays and punish survivors for optimal efficiency. Its like someone looked at the game and tried to punish camping/tunneling/slugging/mori/instant downs and someone looked at survivor and tries to punish gen-rushing & encourage farming with the killer. at face value, its just weird. That is why when you play killer, certain killer are really bad at getting their adept because their power punishes them in emblems and survivors in general often depip/safety pip if they gen-rush without farming with the killer. it makes it somewhat challenging to go to rank 1 as survivor unless you play a lot and get potato teammate+bad killer. it is meaningless system.
I don't know about that. There's no official rule or even consensus. It's just a sort of assumption - 3k+ is a win, 2k is a draw, less is a loss.
I play for pips because, again, there's no binary win/lose state and I find it to be a lot more enjoyable on killer.
On survivor...the emblem system is terrible.
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@jamally093 said:
What killer makes you want to face literally any other killer then face them for me simply Wraith.
I would rather face a P100 Twitch Nurse then face Wraith for one reason. There no counters pallets can't counter him because surprise he can slowly uncloak but since he let go at 99.9% nope he doesn't and destroys the pallet in a second. Seriously I would love face any other killer then face a single Wraith because I can no find a single counter to him and no windows do not counter him because for some reason I still get hit over them.
...Wraith?
Okay.
The counter to him is really easy. If he starts decloaking, drop the pallet and run. Get to a vault. Now he sucks - because if he starts decloaking you just vault.
Wraith isn't that scary at all. Just don't play around unsafe pallets - loop him to pieces.
@Snowflake_Syndrome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339306#Comment_3339306
It's funny when survivors complain about mending simulator because for some reason people just can't help the need to heal against Legions.
Simply put if you don't want to mend don't heal then.
Yeah, you...don't really want to be instadownable. That's turning him into infinite T3 Myers. Not a good thing.
I don't mind playing against Legion, but I do see why it can get tedious.
@TheWheelOfCheese said:
In solo queue, Pinhead. There's always a Meghead that beelines for the box and goes down with it.
For me it's a Dwight.
Pinhead is one of those killers that's just really annoying for solos. There needs to be a way to set a status of 'I'm going for the box'.
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@chadbeastofprey said:
what the ######### is the point of the killswitch if you don't use it???
Mangled is obnoxious, the problem is that AFAIK that's not just one thing to KS, as a lot of killers have addons that do it.
Lullaby? Just leave it as is, honestly.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339421#Comment_3339421
Devs attempted to fix tunneling and camping but the killer mains defended these strategies so in the end any anti tunnel and anti camp perk got nerfed to the ground.
As stated above, rebecca's new perk released as useless, so doesn't affect camping outside of comp level 4 SWF.
Wow. Just...I don't think you said a single factual thing here at all.
It's almost impressive.
But yeah, okay. Let's try this again. Because I asked you this in the other thread and you kept dodging - so let me ask it here.
- How did the devs 'attempt to fix camping and tunneling' exactly? AFAIK, outside of the emblem penalty and the 6.1.0 BT changes, it was all internal and whatever they were working on was too exploitable.
- Which killer mains? You keep saying this, but you've yet to actually name a single, credible 'killer main'.
- Which changes were these 'killer mains' against? Be as specific as you can.
- Which perks? DS certainly isn't 'to the ground'. Are you defending stuff like the old(est) DS or release BT? Because those were stupidly broken.
- Reassurance...oh boy. Mate, I hate to break it to you, but Reassurance got nerfed on the PTB because *survivor mains* were complaining about it, as it could let griefers essentially keep you in a losing game forever.
From the wiki.
You were saying?
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@KingDeathly said:
Hello everyone. I have about 1k hours in DBD, and most of that has been playing survivor. I only recently started being more active playing killer.
I wanted to talk about my experience with DBD lately. Everytime I try, and play survivor I end up getting teammates that don't really do well in chases. Normally I can loop a killer for 1-2 gens on a good day 3 gens, but my teammates can never do the same. I can't even do gens now cause I feel like I have to play with the killer, and carry my team or else we won't get anything done. The new HUD system indeed made a difference, more survivors are doing gens, but it didn't help them in chase, and I still have to sacrifice myself for my team to escape.
So I started playing killer more. Now I'm not as good with chases in killer cause as a survivor your normally the one dictating where to go in the chase so I'm still learning to mind game as a killer, but the problem is when I play killer I actually get the opposite from my survivor games. I get survivors who know what the hell they are doing. I'm talking hyperfocus + prove thyself with green toolboxes with brand new parts. I feel like I just don't have enough time to do chases by the time I complete a chase 2 gens go by. If they bring dead hard the chase last so much longer, and there just not enough time for me to do anything as a killer. It's not like I'm not breaking chases, and causing pressure cause I am, but what's even the point of kicking a gen it barely does anything ,and as soon as I go back into a chase the survivor taps the gen so no regression is even made.
In conclusion lately I find myself playing less, and less of DBD. My matches in both survivor, and killer is just not enjoyable anymore. In the past it didn't feel this way. I don't know if it's just the direction BHVR is taking DBD, but the game just isn't as fun anymore. It feels like ever since the knight DLC the game has just become so much worse lately. I find myself looking for other games, and that's sad cause DBD has always been there for me. It's always been that game I swap back to inbetween other games. I hope something is done to make the game better, cause I just see the game getting worse with each update. I've also noticed a lot more people been making post about how they too don't enjoy the game as much anymore. What is your opinion on DBD? These are my thoughts ,and feelings lately :/
Yeah, HSFP (Hyperfocus+Stakeout+Fogwise+PTS) genrush teams are probably the #1 thing that scares me in this game, because they are just stupidly easy to play (you don't even really need to loop much, just be stealthy and have folks constantly call the killer out with Fogwise) and can feel nearly impossible to beat when they'll have 2-3 gens done before you even see them sometimes.
Unfortunately, the only way to really counter these groups is to play an absolutely bonkers Blight or Nurse and slug like crazy.
Fortunately they aren't common, but I am starting to see more of them (if you see 3x toolboxes and 1x medkit, get ready for pain) and dammit are they stupid unfun to face on weaker killers because you'll barely have time to even really play the game.
As to your experiences:
- Survivor is unfortunately a team coordination role, and solo queue is always going to be insanely volatile. But it does cut both ways. Sometimes I'll be the one that loops the killer for 3 gens, sometimes I'll be the one getting carried. If you want stability, you'll need to run with a stable group.
- Killer is a lot more 'stable', because it's all on you, baby. But yes, this is also what makes killer such a sodding frustrating role at times. My advice - pick 1 or 2 killers (decent killers, mind) and master them. Not someone really funky like Nurse, but not Demogorgon either. Artist, Wesker, Cenobite, Legion, Doctor - all good choices. You'll learn as you go and get your instincts right.
Also - don't worry about mindgames for now. Focus on learning how survivors will run a tile and where to be.
One last thing - forums for any game tend to be negative, because people who come to the forums are often people with an axe to grind. Happy players are busy playing.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339428#Comment_3339428
Oh, don't worry, there's already been two great deterrents to these strategies, it's just that both got axed.
DS basekit, Reassurance buffed to three times per trial per perk, instead of once per trial total.
DS basekit would be a disaster. DS is already really damn strong when it comes to giving a massive and completely free bodyblock, which - especially if it's done in a coordinated manner when you're carrying a survivor can turn games around.
You'd have to give killers a pretty enormous buff to compensate, otherwise we'd probably be in a worse state than pre 6.1.0 kill rates were.
Uh...Reass works twice per survivor, right? Not once a trial.
@Raptorrotas said:
A) dont give bp for messing up or I will demand killers be given bp for missed attacks "for giving a chance" and bp for escaped survivors.
B) does anything in the game treat survivors as a team? No score for making sure others get out. Currently zeamply, despite swf, is still optional.
Huh?
A. What? Okay, I'm not sure if you understood what I'm saying. Right now, the best option if you're being facecamped is to sit there getting hit on the hook for ages so your team can do the gens and get out. You get 0 BP for any of that and you'll depip.
Getting facecamped isn't 'messing up', nobody can loop every killer for 5 gens every game.
The issue is that, in solo queue, you have zero reason to sit there and take it. Much faster to just cable pull or suicide. And that's a problem.
B. Uh, yeah? The...mechanics of the game? There is even a 'Distraction' system where, if you're being chased while other survivors are doing stuff, you get partial credit for that stuff. The problem is that this partial credit is A. pitiful and B. doesn't apply to sitting on the hook getting slapped by a Bubba.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339428#Comment_3339428
I think your talking about the video game loser video game paradigm. The paradigm is that everyone wants to be a winner in video games but only few people are true winner in video games. most player are losers in video games and a big part of video games in general retention is making losing not feel bad. I think that is huge secret to making successful video games. you want to make losing not feel bad but make winning feel good. This makes player want to play games to win but they do not feel bad from a loss. You want player to keep playing the game even when they lose. Making players feel good about wins is not difficult. Most games provide dopamine hit when you win. Making losing fun is a lot more challenging I think.
Here's an interesting thought for you then.
What is 'winning' as a killer?
Is it a 4k?
A 3k?
A 2k?
There is no formal win state whatsoever.
On survivor? Is it escaping personally? Getting a majority out?
For me, on both roles, by win-state is pipping. That's honestly as far as I can take it.
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@Pulsar said:
If I got more BP for being camped or tunneled and didn't de-pip, it would help lessen the sting.
However, I do not think it would do anything to actually make people feel better about it. It's still a very strong strategy and while receiving BP and not de-piping is nice, if I'm getting tunneled or camped multiple games in a row; I'm just gonna find something better to play.
We should absolutely be looking to fix tunneling and camping. This means re-balancing the entire game and I just don't think BHVR wants to do that, even if it would be the better choice.
I'm not sure how much further we can go, really.
I mean, yeah. Fix the killers that can bypass BT or those that are nearly impossible to unhook against. But beyond that...mm, it would be a complete teardown of the entire game's mechanics and I'm not sure that's viable.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337180#Comment_3337180
This.
I don't want any kills after the first survivor DC'd. They've already lost their value.
There's nothing worse than getting into a match and knowing in the first 60 seconds that it's either:
A) I'm going to lose no matter how hard I try
B) I'm going to win no matter how little I try
Honestly?
I'd rather face down the most dangerous SWF comp squad in the world than a team with a DC on the first down.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337848#Comment_3337848
What it's there to do is allow you, if you escape, to potentially gain a nice item, at the expense of a perk slot. It does that fine.
But it does nothing to help facilitate that escape. Its only function even requires you to soft-throw the game because chests are, 9 times out of 10, not worth opening. They take too long to get to, take too long to open, and if it's a map or key, it's all been a complete waste. If it's a toolbox, it can recoup a fragment of its loss because you can shave 5 seconds off a gen. If it's a medkit, it might break even. If it's a flashlight, you're going to have to pull off a save, which is pretty tricky.
Either way, if you are actively using this perk, your escape rate is likely to go down, rather than up.
In an SWF, you could even give your allies items.
Yeah, I've run a build like that. Plunderer, Ace in the Hole, Appraisal and another item related perk.
It's funny.
It also has a 0% winrate. Plunderer is a sandbag perk.
I'm not saying it needs some kind of drastic buff or anything, I think it's fine where it is as just a 'for fun' perk. But it's not a 'good' perk. If you bring it, you're not playing to win.
...How is it a sandbag perk?
It's not No Mither. It's just a fun gimmick. It's not worse than an empty slot.
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337836#Comment_3337836
LOL..what?? THAT'S how you took that response? Wow.
The only reason I responded to your posts in the first place was because of your amazing (lol) take on Eruption. Since then you've walked it back and now are just scared the devs will destroy the perk and leave nothing left (funny how so many players who never even used Eruption in the first place are so worried about that all of a sudden).
Maybe I am missing all your posts that are advocating for a fair and equal game for both sides, but every thread I read that you post in is definitely not that.
You may see yourself as a poster who is interested in a fair and balanced game for both sides, but that is not how it comes off, at all.
My brief response before was because I've realized you won't see sense. No point responding anymore.
Mate, you accused me of...I'm not even sure, honestly. Something something massive liar wants a 100% kill rate I'm guessing.
Do yourself a favor and...actually look at some of the stuff I've talked about before.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337419#Comment_3337419
-At max distance its reactable, other than that its unreactable. What a Survivor is reacting to at that moment is movement, cancelling Shred will more than likely make them use Dead Hard, unless they make the correct read that youre cancelling Shred.
-The "almost" is because there are some killers where it is a lose lose. Such as Huntress with some distance between her and a Survivor, or Demo at max distance.
-People will quite literally complain about anything, the complaints that should be listened to are the loudest and most common. Yes that includes Dead Hard. This game is meant to be different and fun every time you play it, and a perk with a pickrate thats WAY above the rest that a majority of people have an issue with should have a look at.
-Sprint Burst is not weaker, its just not as fun to use and doesnt feel nearly as rewarding. Dead Hard is just more fun and adds an extra variable to the game that can only be achieved through an interaction with the killer itself. Does the mean the perk is bad? No of course not, but the fun factor is definitely a big reason why its being used, it being viable is just the cherry on top. Think of it like Nurse and Blight. Nurse beats Blight in almost everything, but for some Blight is much more fun to play.
-See my previous point
-The only thing thats changed about Spirit is her add ons, in competitive she still has the same counterplay which is predrop a pallet and attempt to win the 50/50 (which is still heavily in Spirits favor since she still has more information on you than you have on her). The only time this doesnt work is at a REALLY strong pallet, such as the ones by bathroom on Gideon, or the god pallet on Lery's
-How is it bugged?
-Nurse has a drawback which means almost nothing with just a little bit of experience, her power more than makes up for it. You may not mind versing her, just like how I dont mind Dead Hard, doesnt mean they should remain the same. As for Blight, Alch Ring needs a downside. Id make it take 50% longer for token regen while also keeping its current effect. This way youre still rewarded the same way, but punished MUCH more for missing.
- No, it's pretty amazingly telegraphed. If I can DH it without issue, with my crappy old man reflexes and mediocre ping, most people should.
- My point is that the 'almost' you're brushing off is quite important.
- So...nerf Windows? Nah. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's OP. It might just be a comfy perk (WoO) or a straight up accessibility issue (Shadowborn).
- SB is absolutely weaker. It is a lot more fiddly to use, requires you to take some risks and is much simpler to counter on most killers. Nurse and Blight...not a good analogy. Killers are not perks and don't really work the same balance wise.
- Here's the big flaw though. Fun is subjective. Most people are willing to sacrifice a lot of 'fun' to win, because to them, winning is fun. It's why there is a meta.
- How on earth is it a 50/50? You have directional audio now - which, to me, is the biggie.
- Go give it a try. KI doesn't activate properly after the first time.
- Yeah, we can go back and forth on 'Nurse is more OP than Blight is more OP than Nurse is more OP than' all day, but it's a bit pointless. Let's see how the balance changes work out numbers wise. I can already say that not having to deal with Starstruck is a massive help.
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337109#Comment_3337109
still you followed
so what's the point? did we or did we not talk about survivor perks? So? did the world end? Did I make your life a little more miserable?
"hijack a thread"
LOOOOOOL what a drama queen.
And yeah, of course you found the best way to play the game and your idea of "fun" definitely is the absolute one, so we should follow, right? Interesting.
Good for you!
🙄
No, I have no idea what you're talking about.
If you want to make a thread about buffing crap survivor perks, maybe go and do that. Like...if you're going to sulk, I guess you can keep bumping this one, but I have no idea why.
@RaSavage42 said:
Ok... so a couple things I re-read
1) Gen regression isn't ruined (pun intended)... all that got the nerfed was Ruin (from 200% to 100%) and Pop (25% to 20%)
And Gen regression got a small (not good enough) of 2.5% of progression lost for every kick
2) And Gens went from 80 charges to 90 charges... which means Survivors that want the Gens done will bring Gen progression perks and not getting off of Gens to do nothing
And new Gen perks being released and Survivors are trying to make them work (with experiences ranging from "it's garbage" to "it's to powerful"
- Hopefully you aren't trying some sort of sneaky semantics but: Thana is now worse than pre 6.1.0, Overcharge is potentially even worse too (12 seconds...that's just silly). Ruin, Pop, yes. Eruption? Going to be nerfed out of existence in less than 2 months. Then we'll have an even less varied regression meta than pre 6.1.0. Tan frigging frastic.
- I think you might have completely misunderstood what I said. One of the stated goals of 6.1.0 was to slow down gens, nerf the strongest regression options and allow killers more variety. Except now, regression is worse and gens can potentially be faster than before, thanks to the new perks. Hyperfocus is too powerful when combined with Stakeout and Fogwise, especially in an SWF. I don't think many folks are going to disagree with that.
BHVR seem 100% set on adding in crazy strong gen perks - so killers need to run deeper regression to stand a chance.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337109#Comment_3337109
Plunderer is a perfectly fine perk
It is absolutely not. Chests are predominantly a waste of time and Plunderer doesn't fix that. It's a funny perk to run, but it's absolutely atrocious, basically a trap, like Autodidact and No Mither.
It absolutely is - but I think you're misunderstanding the perk.
It's not a 'meta' perk. It can't be, unless you want to rework it to do something completely different.
What it's there to do is allow you, if you escape, to potentially gain a nice item, at the expense of a perk slot. It does that fine.
In an SWF, you could even give your allies items.
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Okay, going to respond to parts here. You're...close to being right on a few things, but I think you're way off base on others.
Killers running regression is fine, but regression should be limited.
With gens getting faster and faster, regression honestly needs to be better. HFPS is brutal to face.
Killers shouldn't be able to hold 3-gens as potently as they can now where they rarely have to commit to anybody.
All I hear right now is '3gen' '3gen' '3gen'.
In the last...maybe thousand games I've watched/played, there was 1 game where the killer squared off a 3gen to start and never chased anyone.
You have tools to avoid a 3gen. If you 3gen yourselves, that's not the killer's fault. If the killer is not chasing anyone and just holding a 3gen to stall the game, then that's a hostage situation and a moderation issue, not a balance issue.
Something to let solos tell each other what gens to do? Sure. But I don't think that'll do much. You can't balance around solo queue.
Comps that do gens much faster are very much
Huh? Very much...what?
PT is disadvantageous to use in most circumstances
You cannot possibly be serious.
PTS is an insane perk, even if you just have a duo. 1 gen being finished is often more valuable than 3 gens at 50%.
But yeah, I do want nerfs for some of that.
Good. Let's get that changed, then we can have this discussion. Because you can't touch regression without doing that.
How much weaker tunneling is is very debateable
Outside of the killers that can abuse certain mechanics to cheese BT...is it?
OTR is a pretty bad counter to it when many killers, esp. a lot of new ones, are good at getting back to the hook quickly and hitting you during the BT endurance
OTR is incredible.
A killer coming back to try and tunnel - you have allies for a bodyblock or if need be a trade, you also have OTR and other tools at your disposal.
But - here's the other thing. Your 'win state' isn't 'I escape'.
Your win state is 'we got more than 2 people out, even if one of us sacrificed ourselves'.
You used to have to deal with decisive strike and dead hard both providing extra chances if you tunnel them, but now decisive is quite bad.
Decisive is so bad that I see it on...I think every single comp squad I've seen recently.
Decisive is amazing.
And at the same time, tunneling is much more encouraged than before. BBQ and the pip system used to do a lot to encourage you to spread the pressure, especially BBQ
And yet I can't think of the last time I saw a 'fix tunneling' thread even mention BBQ in the OP.
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337333#Comment_3337333
Basically every single one of my "takes" have been, or are being implemented into the game and are praised by the player base as great balance moves. I'd like you to specifically mention one of my "takes" because from your first sentence asking if I am an us vs them player I seriosuly doubt you know at all what you are talking about as basically all of my posts are advocating for balance on both sides. Get out of here with this.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337383#Comment_3337383
Still upset you were so out of touch in regards to Nurse, I see. Just because you were wrong doesn't mean you need to get upset about it. It's a really bad look.
Funny how none of you can even mention one of my terrible takes. Yet I can for yours. You actually thought Nurse was in a fine state before her nerf. Literally one of the worst takes in all of DBD..
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337412#Comment_3337412
Sigh..sure..
Whatever you say.
'Whatever you say'...mate.
Just own up to it.
'I was wrong and insulted you for literally no reason, and made a fool of myself. I'm sorry'.
Is that really so hard for folks these days to...just apologize?
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337152#Comment_3337152
This is very true. The devs want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to matchmaking. They really needed to combat the bizarre culture around DbD early on.
Players think a 50% win rate on killer is a balance issue, not a sign of good matchmaking. But they've let the "power role should be powerful because the player clicked the power role" mindset linger, and people freaked out when SBMM first came out with good matchmaking.
Then they dialed SBMM back a ton, which really just punishes anything less than a 4 stack because there's almost always a super weak link on the team now. Factor in the soft cap, and we're almost back to where we started before SBMM. I shouldn't be winning as many games as I am on killer. I shouldn't be getting instant queues to proceed to 4k at 3-4 gens. It's BS. I lose games when I'm matched appropriately. Sometimes I get dumpstered if I get survivors who also have my experience level. It shouldn't be a once in a blue moon occasion.
There has to be a better way here. Solo queue is miserable because weak links are introduced to ease the killer experience. A good 4 man is fine, but you're either sweating your tail off or 3 hooking a poor killer way out of their depth. Killer is all the over the place with zero consistency. 4 games will be the easiest games of your life, and you're severely punished for not bringing a good build because the game is randomly going to match you well once every 5 games, and that loss will feel completely contrived otherwise.
I find that it gets a little nutty during events, because of all the returning folks, but then it settles in.
It's not perfect, and lobby dodges or whatever causes SBMM to poop the sheets occasionally...yeah, that needs to be fixed already, but by and large my matches are way fairer.
There is one thing that seems to be a thing now - 1 really strong survivor and 3 'okay' survivors against me, which is generally a 4k. That's weird.
On the other hand, killer incentive seems to be more and more common.
Really have no idea what's going on.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337424#Comment_3337424
Oh really Ayrun has a recent SOLO survivor escape streak?
Really surprising if its true, I thought that impossible to escape as solo, because the killer can just slug for 4K, and as a survivor you have 0 agency over that
Yes, he does. Sadly he didn't save VODs, but he does them fairly often so just keep an eye on his Twitch.
I think he got up to around 40 escapes in a row at one point.
@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337431#Comment_3337431
Hide and Seek. In my soloq, I escape a lot thanks to Ego-Builds like Clairvoyance, Wake Up, Sole Survivor and Deadhard.
Some games he hides.
Some games he literally loops the killer for 5 gens.
@Roaroftime said:
Solo Q is autolose against any decent killer*
And yet I've seen Otz lose to solos.