StarLost
StarLost
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@lemonsway said:
BHVR how do you expect Survivors to make rescues against Knight? Did you somehow forgot he can summon Guards on top of Hooks and still be there himself?
This is the kind of thing that makes me and anyone who's sane question WHO COMES UP WITH THESE KILLERS AND WHO THE HELL TESTS THIS BEFORE COMING TO LIVE SERVERS.
VS a SWF i can see how you coordinate a rescue but for Solos!? The best you can do is just stay on Hook and let the Facecamping happen so others can do gens and MAYBE HAVE 2 PEOPLE ESCAPE.
Since when is this level of gameplay good for the game!?
Why do you allow Knight to Summon Guards on Hook repeatedly!? Why so long to do something about this!?
I have better chances of getting rescued against a Bubba....
WHY IS THIS LOW EFFORT LOW SKILL THING IN THE GAME?
You need to take a deep breath and probably a short break.
Go for a walk outside.
Get some fresh air.
Calm down.
Then, come back and read the Knight's description. You can save against his summons really, really easily. Wait for them to path away, save. This despawns them.
Also - this game is not and cannot be balanced around solo queue.
Saying that Knight is a better camper than Bubba...wat.
@lemonsway said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336546#Comment_3336546
Do i speak alien language or something? in a SWF yeah but now try coordinate that on SoloQ... People are selfish as is and since Knight can face camp with 2 characters and he can keep spamming the guard when it runs out good luck getting randoms to do that...
I can run and counter Knight in chase pretty fine, the issue is being hooked vs knight in SoloQ means 99.9% Death...
Besides why is a killer allowed to do something even more boring than facecamping with just 1 character, why is Knight allowed a second character to facecamp with!?
If i were the Knight why would i even move myself from Hook when i can let the Guard chase whoever, maybe i get it and i can still be pressuring the Hook. And if the Guard doesn't get a hit then i've wasted someones time in a failed attempt that someone else has to come for or they give me a free no effort no skill required kill.
This is a serious oversight OR IT'S ABSOLUTLY INTENDED BECAUSE IT'S BHVR...
That tinfoil hat seems to be restricting blood flow. I'd loosen it if I were you.
Think of it this way through.
Survivors can choose to play solo or in SWF.
Killers cannot choose what to face.
The game cannot be balanced around solo queue.
Facecamping is obnoxious, but there isn't much more that can be done to fix it. BHVR have tried internally and all the attempted fixes tend to be massively exploitable.
@lemonsway said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336559#Comment_3336559
4 years of experience my friend, i've seen it all and i've done it all. That's precisely why it bothers me. That's precisely why i'll keep pointing this things out. When something is wrong it should be pointed out and corrected.
I'm not ill informed and it has absolutly no impact on my health whatsoever, i enjoy discussing stuff and i enjoy writting, i'm winning actually, i get to write and i get to exercize my brain, not that it is much exercize cause i can clearly see i'm talking to bots but nevertheless i'm willing to indulge.
And if you've come here to question my knowledge or my health then you're wasting your time.
The simple fact of the matter is Knight is allowed to Facecamp with 2 Characters. My question is Why? Where is getting a killer to use 2 characters to Facecamp a good option for the game when Facecamping is so frowned upon by the community at large and represents such an effortless and skilless way to play.
Don't tell me it's to help newer players because it if is then it's very very wrong, you're off the get go teaching them that they should do something nobody likes simply because they get to kill someone they are playing against.
Now that, that's a bit of a mental health concern if you ask me, teaching that behaviour to players...
...
If you've got 4 years of experience and you still literally think Knight is a stronger camper than Bubba, then you're proving Sir Terry Pratchett right when he says that experience often just means someone else has been wrong for longer.
Also...a mental health concern...what?
Am I getting baited here?
@lemonsway said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336617#Comment_3336617
Idc what his power says, i care about what the game allows. And the game allows the Knight to be there facecamping and to use his guard to facecamp aswell, both at the same time. It's an oversight or intended which is worse.
And stop thinking you know everything when you clearly don't. I think you might have some psychological disorder.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336665#Comment_3336665
Everyone has an issue with facecamping... ITts just boring ass NON GAMEPLAY for both sides. Yet somehow BHVR releases a killer that can facecamp with 2 characters. And he can keep recycling the guards as long as he needs to.
IF you havent faced it good for you, i really hope you do not.
- If you're getting double-hit trying to save, you're getting outplayed.
- 'If you disagree with me you have a mental disability' is...quite a take.
- The Knight can 'camp with two characters' in the same way that Nemesis can camp with 3. Technically true, but ignores reality.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337178#Comment_3337178
I've actually quite found of Gideon with Nemesis. Pretty much every pallet is a guaranteed hit with Tentacle.
Depends how they are playing. You get some scarily good survivors who will fake it to make you take out your tenty, then predrop it the next time around.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337159#Comment_3337159
They can't neither balanced around 4 man swf. Blight and nurse are balanced to beat absolutly the best swf in the world but that means good player with them destroys everyone else even most 4 man swf. Supalf would not win 500 wins a game with nurse if the character is balanced versus everyone. So no they can't do that best to balance something in middle ground between solos and swf. Most swf are 2 or 3 man too so usually there is always one solo player. I do question your 50% escape rate in soloQ. Are you very good looper?
They have to. Because as long as 4man SWFs are a possibility, that has to be the balance goal. Otherwise these games are an auto-loss for killers.
Would you consider that fair?
People love to refer to Alf, without realizing that he's not an example of anything aside from 'the matchmaking system breaks down at a certain level of skill'. It's a very different discussion. If you want to see what this looks like from the other end, go watch Ayrun's solo escape streaks. Does that mean that solo queue is completely fine?
Hmm. Once we get the baby settled in, I can record some games. I'm...an okay looper, but I tend to play quite tactically. As in - if the team is getting creamed, I'm going to start playing for hatch.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337154#Comment_3337154
DH really ain't stronger in any scenario against some killers since it lost the whole DH for distance which basically guaranteed value with enough practice, now its turned into a mind game in almost every single scenario. I guarantee you the moment DH is nerfed, people will cry about Sprint Burst since it turns any single part of the map into a safe zone. Just broke 3 pallets in this one area and all thats left is a T-L? Too bad, mr Sprint Burst can make it to Asylum main building. The only reason why people use DH more is because its more fun and actually has to make you think about who you're going against. Every single use is a mind game, and adds depth to what is normally a 1 and done kind of thing to multiple scenarios. DH received the perfect rework.
Top of what? Tierlists. Nurse and Spirit are still very much at the top despite being nerfed. Spirit how ever I think is in a much healthier place, its just her add ons that need a looksie since MDR and the DCM are a little dumb. Nurse had one of her issues looked at, which was her synergy with perks despite having the strongest power in the game. Her other issue is unlike other killers, she remains at the same strength chase wise throughout the game. Even Spirit and Blight still have to deal with pallets, and the longer the game goes on the faster they're able to get downs thanks to the number of them decreasing. Nurse on the other hand doesn't care how many resources are left on the map, she'll down you just as fast with or without them. My solution? Make her play in reverse compared to other killers. Make her strongest at the early game, and make her weaker towards the end game. This way there's a more interesting back and forth and both sides will have to think more about making plays that could benefit you more late game, other than just benefiting you at the current moment.
- It's way stronger against Demo. You cannot mindgame with shred, as an example, because it's really telegraphed. You may as well not have an ability at a certain level of play.
- That 'almost'...this is why I'm not a fan of weasel words. Because 'almost' is important.
- Yes, just like when Eruption is nerfed people will complain about Pain Resonance. That's...not the masterstroke you think it is. There are tens of thousands of posters on this forum.
- Sprint Burst is substantially weaker than DH. Are you going to contest that? Because I can prove it with a simple image.
- Bull. Crap. People don't pick perks because they are 'fun'. People pick perks because they are either A. the easiest path to victory or B. massive QOL improvements (Shadowborn, WoO etc.).
- I still don't get why Spirit is considered top tier. She has one addon combination that's strong, and outside of that she's...okay. It's like saying Myers is top tier because TSP. Plague is stronger, Artist is way stronger.
- Blossom has been bugged for months now.
- Nurse's power comes at a drawback. There's a reason her gross kill rates are so low. I...actually really don't mind facing Nurse now, because it's a really enjoyable skill versus skill showdown. Hell, nerf Alch ring and a few other addons and Blight will be okay too.
@legacycolt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337128#Comment_3337128
Yes but they’re still overpowered sadly
Says who, and what numbers?
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337189#Comment_3337189
Don't even respond to that guy. He is one of the biggest killer-bias posters on the forums. Everything he posts is only supportive of killers.
It is too bad there are so many posters like that who are only interested in strenghtening their preferred side rather than a fun, balanced game for both sides.
Except, you know, all the stuff I post in regards to survivor.
Remember: every time you lie about someone else, you get a half-inch shorter.
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SupaAlf won 500 games out of 500 games with Nurse, so 99% is maybe even understatement.
Yes, and? He does nothing but play Nurse.
If you want to see what this looks like from the other side, go watch Ayrun and his escape streaks.
These players are an anomaly.
I don't know any multiplayer game where 1 player allowed to have 90+% winrate.
Literally any game with loose matchmaking will have this problem.
4 vs 4 doesn't count since both sides need to have 4 good players to win, while in dbd one side only needs one player to win almost every game.
Then...what exactly counts?
This is going to turn into No True Scotsmen, I'm sure - because DbD is sort of it's own thing.
I mean I understand that you want to win every game as killer, while eating snacks and going for 12 hooks, but its still unbalanced.
You've...never actually seen anything I've ever posted, have you?
Also, that chip on your shoulder is blocking out the sun.
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@AnnaEliza365 said:
This is a question for killer mains. What is, in your opinion, the ideal survival/death ratio that BHVR should aim for? 50%? 60%? 75%?
Personally (survivor main), I think 70% is a pretty good kill rate to aim for.
I don't care about kill rates. Not one bit.
I care about the delta between 'this match was fair and I could have won that/lost that' and 'this match was silly, and I can't think of a way I could have won/lost that' stomps.
Stop survivors from quitting out of any match that isn't going well, incentivize them to stick it out with better scoring/BP returns on losing games.
@IronKnight55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336373#Comment_3336373
This. Why do gens if you and your teammates are gonna die anyways? It would be best to hide and wait for hatch. After reading through these comments I'm glad these people don't work on the game, lol. It would be dead.
Why would it be dead?
It didn't die when killers were horrible.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337174#Comment_3337174
Sure, but stupidly powerful loops are one thing. They don't have quite the same "well, I COULD quit this chase, but I wonder if we'll be able to do every pallet before the game ends" bizarre fascination to them.
Oh right, yeah. I know what you mean.
Man, I had a bonkers game on Nemmy like that - I'm a pallet buster and they still never ran out. Frigging Gideon.
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@Davenport916 said:
Starting to main her. I play on console and usually main blight, pyramid head, and sometimes play dredge and nemesis. Really liking her as she has a learning curve. Getting snipes on people is satisfying and just like her general feel. Although I feel like her add ons need looking at as they are mostly useless and weak. The only ones that stand out for me are the severed hands, oblivious add on, cooldown add on, and maybe the mangled/ hemorrhage add on. Other than those I can't find value for anything else that fits my playstyle. The build I like is dead man's switch, thrilling tremors, resonance, and bbq. What are your thoughts on her as a killer main or survivor main, and do you agree with me or disagree with my stance on her add ons? Would love to see a change to her add on kit but that's just me.
Love her to pieces. If her addons were more interesting, I'd main her.
Hands are her BIS. Oblivious is sort of meh, as they will just anticipate your approach. I'd say her second best is the brown 'Sticky Tar' one. And that's just...so silly.
Not a massive fan of that build, to be honest.
Artist loves aura reading but BBQ is just...butt. Maybe 75% of the time, any survivor aura I'm going to see will be completely blocked by the gen they are working on.
Following your theme, I'd go:
Pain Resonance + DMS
Discordance (trust me on this one)
Either Agitation (for guaranteed PR + DMS every down, plus a ton of free damage against folks trying to bodyblock) or Floods of Rage (massive aura reading perk).
I also really, really like Lethal on her.
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@RainehDaze said:
It's honestly just ridiculous on some maps. You can just hold W from pallet to pallet to pallet to pallet and if you can't antiloop, it's basically impossible to ever get a down. It's fascinating, in a horrifying "why is this even possible as part of a game" way. Two people, in a completely non-interactive sequence.
Oh yeah, it can be really, really silly.
Pallets are the least of it. At least those are gone once they're gone.
It's when you get the over/under loop on MD or the pseudo-infinite with 3 vaults on GoJ that the game is just...why bother?
@Sava18 said:
I mean I'm playing around majority of pallets that aren't god pallets anyway, because I play blight who actually has the capability and skill expression to do so. If people find it fun to play m1 killers who have to subject themselves to W and pre-dropping then they better really enjoy that killer. I personally can't stand being subject to such playstyles that require nearly 0 skill on either side.
...
Did you just say that playing an M1 killer takes nearly 0 skill?
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336476#Comment_3336476
BHVR doesn’t have an obsession with “ugly females” the community just has a weird obsession with female characters that have to fall into the beauty standard. I’ve never seen a community that will actively trash a character simply because they don’t find them attractive. Go outside.
That's what happens in basically every game.
People gravitate towards the 'pretty' characters/races - be it Feng here or the Blood Elves in World of Warcraft. Less people are going to idealize Jane or a rotting corpse (Forsaken).
It sort of just is what it is.
@Piruluk is putting it inelegantly, but I think they're trying to say that at the end of the day, people generally want to play their idealized character - be it a character they can identify with as an idealized version of themselves, or an idealized version of a partner.
You may view that as problematic, but...it's never going to change. Because that's just how people's brains work from an evolutionary perspective.
@Desteriaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336471#Comment_3336471
more attractive?... this is inherently racist.. this is straight up fetishization. weird
What did I just read?
...Weird indeed.
(For the record, that's not what fetishization means).
@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337098#Comment_3337098
Tbf both Yoichi and Sadako have cosmetics in the mobile version
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TQUKJEECUZYG/maxresdefault-281-29.jpg
Holy crap that Sadako skin.
@K_Nottie16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336993#Comment_3336993
Lol. So Elodie might not be relatable FOR YOU. She is for me and many other black people who play dead by daylight. For me and many others there arent many good black representation in games. We're just in the game to say hey look everyone heres our black character.
Sure...but here's the thing.
You sort of have to cater to what people want. And, while yes I'm sure black folks playing DbD would like more characters to identify with, I'm not sure what the proportional breakdown of people playing this game looks like by race - but I'd guess it's predominantly White, then Asian.
This is probably why you see mostly White and Asian characters. It's also why you predominantly see Black characters in Kenyan media and Asian characters in Japanese media. It's not good or bad...it's just how things work, I guess.
You also have Claudette, a character that's not only extremely popular and has a good amount of cosmetics, her pigmentation actually grants her a substantial in-game advantage.
Hence the term 'Blendette'.
Elodie, Tapp and Adam also have some great cosmetics.
@K_Nottie16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337073#Comment_3337073
So shes the only attractive girl? There are other attractive characters too
Yes - but Feng fits a certain 'waifu' archetype that people are just going to gravitate to.
Meg is the 'girl next door' archetype - also popular.
Nea is the 'bad girl', so also quite popular.
Mikaela - kooky 'hot girl in nerd glasses'.
That all said - I see a ton of Elodie.
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@calem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336960#Comment_3336960
Mate you're mad now, there didn't even used to be an end-game timer. You should be extremely thankful you didn't play in those times. Just accept the bleed out, go on your phone for 4 minutes, watch something on a 2nd monitor. The game is progressing and that is not hostage taking. No amount of you whinging about it taking too long is gonna change anything.
Eh...in all fairness bleedouts suck and we should get that mori thing ASAP. It's just silly as it is.
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@Piruluk said:
These 2 killers are miles above any other and can't be beaten by SoloQ even a good SWF would have trouble, the only way to escape comes down to the hatch.
Honestly dbd is the only multiplayer game where a single player allowed to roflstomp and pubstomp 99% of their games
Bonus, there is no MMR, capped at low level, so its almost guaranteed that survivor team will have average or bad player, which is autolose vs Blight, Nurse if piloted by a decent player.
Okay...?
Here's the truth. And it's one of those unfortunate truths that people don't like to hear.
This game has to be balanced around SWF versus Killer, not Solo versus Killer.
When I play survivor, I can choose to join an SWF or play solo.
When I play killer, I have no choice in the matter - and the next game I play could be against a 20,000 hour comp squad. So I need to go into every match anticipating that possibility.
Balancing the game entirely around solos would be massively unfair to killers.
Now...that all said, I'm escaping maybe 50% of the time as a solo survivor. That number cannot and *should not* be any higher.
As to the rest:
Honestly dbd is the only multiplayer game where a single player allowed to roflstomp and pubstomp 99% of their games
Hahaha what?
Basically any team based PvP game will allow pubstomping. Heroes of the Storm? League of Legends? Go queue up as an organized group and you'll roll.
Now, I'd love to see SWF get some sort of MMR adjustment (as a lot of other games do) so they'd face stronger opponents, but BHVR have said that they won't do that.
99% is a silly hyperbole, not even going to engage with that.
Bonus, there is no MMR, capped at low level, so its almost guaranteed that survivor team will have average or bad player,
...Huh?
No seriously, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
There is MMR.
The MMR 'cap' could probably stand to go up a bit, but it's definitely not low.
Survivor teams will have a mix of players, generally grouped together to form an average MMR close to that of the killer. If the killer is low MMR then yes, you will likely have low MMR survivors.
which is autolose vs Blight, Nurse if piloted by a decent player.
Define 'decent'.
I've seen Otz lose to solos on Nurse and Blight (you can go watch his streak videos). And if you're going to turn around and say 'well Otz isn't a decent player' then...yeah, that would be very silly, wouldn't it?
Hell, I've beaten Nurse and Blight as a solo queue survivor.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337113#Comment_3337113
Gold kicks in at 8 points, that requires a 3k (2 points/kill) with 9 hooks (1 point) and all individual survivors hooked (1 point)
Sadly I'm capped for the season, but if you remind me later this month I'd be happy to record a video of my pipping, at gold ranks, off 2 kills.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337128#Comment_3337128
They also nerfed Dead Hard
At the end of the day, doesn't really matter considering they're still at the top. I personally don't have an issue with any of them other than Nurse. Only way I see her being balanced is giving her a complete rework.
Yes, but barely. DH is, now that survivors have a feel for it, near-as-dammit as annoying as it was before 6.1.0, and straight up more powerful against some of the weakest killers in the game (Demo immediately comes to mind).
Top of...what exactly?
Gross kill rates? Nurse sucks. Blight and Spirit are fine.
Tip top MMR? Then sure, nerf them. But then we're looking at a lot of stuff that needs a nerf.
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@Ithiria said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337137#Comment_3337137
Is it cold today?
The average killrate is about 60% and streamers are 4king about 80-90% of their games, and so am I.
Frankly, if it's cold, it's cold for everyone because there's a lot of things the other side does that's absolutely irritating, but I pretty much refuse to play survivor these days and just play killer except with my friends because I loathe the kick + tunneling metas that exist rn. Killer is way more relaxed for me these days.
That killrate is misleading.
In a dataset of...around 1,000 matches now, about 15-20% of games have either a suicide or a survivor going AFK (not counting DCs, as the kill rate stats exclude them).
This means that the kill rate against solo queue is likely higher, but substantially lower against SWF.
Yes, streamers with 8-10k hours are going to melt faces, but that's more due to the MMR softcap and the changes made.
Do you stream? Because outside of maybe folks like Supaalf and a handful that almost certainly derank offstream (not naming names), I don't think I'm seeing a 90% kill rate.
Eh...solo queue can be maddening but I don't mind it, aside from how badly designed survivor BP/emblem scoring are.
- 'Kick meta'...so, what? You don't want killers to run regression? Eruption is getting nerfed, CoB is the only remaining 'kicky' perk worth a damn and it's not amazing without Eruption...yeah, not sure what else you could possibly mean? Yes, killers run regression. Gen speeds are, against certain comps, faster than 6.1.0. What exactly do you expect them to do?
- Tunneling is weaker than it's ever been, aside from a handful of killers who can break endurance (that should be fixed). But yes, again, removing one person from the game ASAP isn't just how killer feels like it needs to play at a tactical level, at a certain level of play it can be straight up the only way to even contest a match.
Yes, it's cold today. Yes, there are things wrong with the survivor role too - but whataboutism is always worth avoiding. This isn't that thread.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I don't see anything specifically about "hostage situations" here, but here are the official game rules reference: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/139-game-rules
The official responses from BHVR basically boil down to this: 'holding a game hostage' occurs in a reportable way when the game no longer progress after an extended period of time for some reason. The exact definition of 'extended time' is intentionally vague because a lot of factors can come into play. There is some nuance to this, which is why I suspect BHVR wants a report with video evidence rather than just a text report.
The most common forms of confirmed 'hostage taking' are:
* Stalemate scenario: Remaining 2 or more survivors are hiding from the killer, without attempting to touch gens, for an extended period of time. (Survivors focusing on the survival objective, but completely ignoring the complete gens to escape objective)
* Stalemate scenario: Killer is using perks and power to secure an area (usually 3gen), without attempting to down or kill survivors for an extended period of time. (Focusing on gen regression, but completely ignoring the kill survivors objective)
* Hard bodyblocking is a gray area. This is where a survivor is held in place by the killer or other survivor(s) in a small area and can't leave until the other player(s) move first. Usually, if a survivor is hard body blocked in a corner by the killer or survivors, the game might still progress (the remaining survivors can finish gens, open the doors, and escape, while the bodyblocked survivor dies to EGC). However, if all remaining survivors are body blocked by the killer who isn't taking the free hits to continue the game, this is considered a hostage situation. Especially if the killer just goes afk.
Most common complaints people claim are "hostage" really aren't. They might be unsportsmanlike, bad mannered, and/or toxic, but not an actual hostage situation as far as BHVR reporting is concerned. Things like: tunneling, camping, slugging, or teabagging at the exit gate all end with normal gameplay of the survivor dying or the EGC ending the game. Hiding during a "slug for the 4k" scenario is not a hostage situation, even if the "last survivor standing" does nothing but crouch in the corner while the slug bleeds out (a 4 minute timer).
I just want to mention this.
WIthout naming names, a very popular survivor streamer who knows basically all the Fog Whisperers has gone on record recently as categorically saying that even if you abuse the 'item' glitch to never get AFK crows and hide for the entire match, BHVR *will not* ban for this.
His exact words were something to the effect of 'I do this all the time, they don't care'.
He does this, live on stream, almost daily. To thousands of viewers.
Never even been warned, but likely reported constantly.
So...yeah. It's very, very clearly not bannable.
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@Dbdfan398 said:
Or is this just how it is now? Playthings for the survivors?
Any word on this, or is killer in a good spot in bhvrs opinion? I dont care what the killstats say. Killer isnt FUN / SCARY anymore. I feel like its my job to just entertain 4 people.
Eh...
On one hand - yeah, it's a bit silly.
On the other hand - half the killer roster is in an 'okay' place, barring an addon pass or two.
@Ithiria said:
I s2g modern killer players have no idea how good they have it
It was -50 yesterday.
It's -30 today.
Is it still cold today?
@RaccoonInATrenchCoat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336386#Comment_3336386
Are you.. just.. ignorant of the changes?
Eyrie nerf, basekit bonus regression, a buff to generator regression, a buff to hit speed, survivors lost half of the speed they got on hit, maps were made generally smaller with realm beyond, a lot of killers have been touched up, more slowdown and build maneuverability than ever.. Killers get buffed a lot recently. Most 'nerfs' are stupidly broken stuff, like 7 blink nurse.
Yeah, but let's look at those.
- Eyrie...still a strong map. But you've also seen Borgo added, which is horrible on the weakest killers in the game and Garden of Joy which can have an effective infinite.
- Basekit bonus regression and gen speed means diddly squat - because they also buffed 'faster gen' perks out the wazoo, left PTS as is and then added the abominations of hyperfocus and fogwise which...why? Gens, under certain conditions, can be faster than they were before the chances.
- On top of this, nearly all killer regression was nerfed. So you've got (potentially) faster gens and less options for dealing with it.
- The 'hit speed' buffs were a mixed bag, because they only changed M1s. Meaning that some killers that were really struggling, like Demo, were effectively nerfed.
- What other killer buffs were added 'recently?'.
- A realm beyond was ages ago.
- Most...nerfs...ugh. The issue isn't the stupidly OP stuff getting slight tweaks (which is...generally reserved for survivor perks - see Dead Hard), it's mildly OP stuff being nerfed into complete uselessness. See: Thana. Ruin. Overcharge. And almost certainly Eruption.
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@Pulsar said:
I'm genuinely seeing it every other game at this point. It really sucks that so many people just exploit things because they can.
I haven't been playing at all because I can't stand Legion or Doc right now, which seem to be a fair amount of my games. Their builds just center around making matches just absolutely miserable.
Case in point, this Legion match.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Q9IA90NXJPQK/funny-build.png
Hopefully. I've been deliberately avoiding running any Mangled stuff on my killers until this gets fixed because cripes is it annoying to face.
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@legacycolt said:
Dead hard is needed against killers like nurse, spirit and blight. They would have to nerf killer powers too sadly.
They nerfed Nurse.
They nerfed Spirit.
Blight is the only outlier.
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@Jholla31 said:
Am I the only one noticing Distortion in a lot of survivor builds recently? It's gotten to the point that when Shadow Step or Off the Record is in play it catches me off guard because I think it's just Distortion again.
I do think it's a pretty good perk now, considering you can recharge the tokens, but I feel like I only started seeing it a lot in the past week or so. Anyone else? Which content creator made a video that counters my full aura reading builds? 😭😂
Because it's a really, really good perk that - as nearly all killer info perks are aura based.
@Firellius said:
Honestly, with extremely powerful intel perks like Darkness Revealed and Nowhere to Hide, you can't stealth at all anymore without Distortion. I don't think it's to do with any content creator, it's just a natural conclusion to most killers bringing at least one big intel perk.
Darkness Revealed?
You can stealth versus that easily. Just...keep an eye on lockers.
NTH is only good because survivors love to try and be sneaky, hide and then jump right back onto the gen you just kicked - before NTH there was literally no way to reliably check for them on some maps without wasting a lot of time.
But no, it's not either of these perks.
It's Lethal Pursuer. People don't like to be the first one chased, as that's often the person expected to 'carry' the team, with the importance of that first chase. It's a lot of responsibility and Distortion basically ensures that you won't.
All that said though - stealth is awful and even with aura reading perks, it's far too easy for survivors to take games hostage by perma-avoiding AFK crows with a few tricks and just spending the majority of the game in a locker somewhere.
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@LibidinousPsyche said:
Ok so now for awhile now I when I check every now and again, I'm still on bronze 1. I'm piping and I thought it would be gold, but I usually could careless and don't check it that often because when I pip it pips I'm not obsessed with it. I know I should be higher and progressing more than this bronze 1 though, especially since I saw it 4 days ago at bronze 1. Any clues?
Are you AFKing or DCing?
One will depip you, one might double depip you.
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@K_Nottie16 said:
Feng Min gets way too many cosmetics. I get it shes a fan favorite but i feel like others would get a chance to be a fan favorite too if they actually got cute cosmetics as well. Im a girl so obviously i want cute clothes for my main. Theres a lot of girls who play this game and the only one who really gets girly cosmetics is Feng. So it only makes sense for girls to gravitate towards Feng. My main is Elodie and she doesnt get the recognition she deserves. For me when Elodie came into the game it made me really happy to see someone who looks like me in the dead by daylight world. But her outfits are just ugly. Her cosmetics age her up. There are so many different styles they could do with her and they waste it. The only good outfit she has is the afro punk one that was made by a fan. Its not just with Elodie its with other characters as well. To me Haddie is good representation but sadly not many people main her because she doesnt have a good selection of cosmetics.
It's a bit of a fait accompli now.
She's got the cosmetics, so she has the fanbase. They don't want to add more cosmetics to, say, Jane or Jeff because those might not sell.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336333#Comment_3336333
They did gen rush me at beginning but 3 genned themself. The match overall however lasted around 20 mins. Letting the last 2 go just probably took points away from gatekeeper and malicilous category.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TTS5E8L7CLW2/screenshot-20230204-134647-gallery.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZENYQP810NWL/screenshot-20230204-134725-gallery.jpg
Uh...
Yeah, no idea what to say. Those emblems make no sense from what you're describing.
9 hooks would be gold Devout.
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335356#Comment_3335356
we are talking about survivor builds here because I want to talk about survivor builds here
I do not care how "vast" survivor meta perks are, that's not the point, the point is: survivors have many, many, many perks we'd love to run to have fun in the game, but we have to choose either we Queue to win or to have fun.
Either we sit on generators the whole match or we kiss that hook until we're out of the game. End of story.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VHRLIYSO6A9H/runthis.jpg
If I want to run this build there will be 10 topics the next day here about how people don't do gens and how useless survivors are...
The hypocrisy is REAL!
...
No.
Just...no.
- You don't get to hijack a thread about one thing and then say 'well, I want to talk about something else now so sod you'. Make your own thread if you want.
- Do you...not know what 'varied' means? It doesn't mean 'vast'. It means that you have far, far more viable builds than killers do in the current meta.
- Do you think it's fair to focus on buffing a handful of crap survivor perks when killers have far more crap perks?
- Plunderer is a perfectly fine perk. As is Pharmacy. They aren't top tier, but they don't have to be.
- Yes, doing the gens is what survivors are supposed to do? That's like saying 'well, killers need to be chasing and killing survivors to win'. It's not wrong, but also...duh?
- I spend a lot of my survivor matches interacting with the killer. I still win a goodly amount, and that's in solo queue. I like being chased.
- That makes absolutely no sense. No, seriously, what on earth are you on about?
- What hypocrisy?
Not sure if I'm being baited here or what.
@rysm said:
It's kinda annoying seeing "Otz says this", "Otz says that" lol there are better, less known DBD players whose opinion I value a lot more than his
...Okay?
It's not me agreeing or disagreeing with his video, it's just using it as a springboard for a discussion.
-
(duplicate, bug?)
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@shogoaluni said:
I always play survivor so therefore I have no idea how it is to play killer so I wanted y'all's perspective on tunneling. If you do tunnel, why do you do it? I am not asking out of saltyness, I'm genuinely curious if it is such a needed game strategy. Do you always tunnel, or is there something a survivor does to influence it? If you do not tunnel, why don't you? What do you do instead of tunneling to still have a productive game? I want to understand what's going on inside killer mains minds so it will help me get less frustrated by getting tunneled out some games. I also want your perspective on this type of stuff since I never play killer, i have no idea how it feels to be on the other side so I don't think it's fair to judge until I get some knowledge from the other end.
Tunneling is like eating a puppy.
If you're going to starve, then pass the ketchup.
If your first thought when entering a restaurant is 'I wonder what the puppy menu looks like' then you're the problem.
It depends on the game I'm going to play, or more likely - on the game I predict the survivors will put me in. If you're an SWF, or I suspect you are - no holds are barred as you aren't going to show me mercy either. If you seem a bit more chill, I'll probably ease up.
Sometimes getting rid of one player early is the only way not to get 4o'd. An organized team can do all the gens in sub 5 minutes while also having someone run the killer.
@shogoaluni said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336019#Comment_3336019
okay, by tunneling i mean going after someone right after they get unhooked. dropping chase with another survivor to go to the unhook, and go right after the unhooked survior. ive had a point where they downed whoever saved me, left them on the ground to go directly for me. i wonder for people like that, what's exactly going on their minds and why they decide to do plays like that. i understand instances where you don't keep track who you hook, or you run into the same survivor. i can usually tell whenever that happens and i don't get annoyed. i just wonder what is the strategy behind dropping everything your doing to tunnel out one survivor.
Eh...you've already confused the issue.
- Yes, going after the freshly unhooked dude is annoying, but unless you're one of the killers that can completely ignore BT (that needs to be fixed) at least they get to play and aren't being camped.
- Dropping chase with survivor to go back to the hook - that's fine. For example, I'm playing Ghostface on Garden of Joy. I hook the Zarina, but the teabagging Dwight I chase next immediately runs to the main structure and I see that the infinite has spawned. So I head back to the hook. There's no way I'm catching that Dwight in a reasonable amount of time, so I'll try to force a trade.
- What's generally going through their minds? Probably a game like this one. I go out of my way to build something fun and bring a flan on Christmas on Demo. I run into a comp team with about 26,000 hours between them. I can't do *anything, I get destroyed and mocked in postgame. Yeah, you'd better believe that I'm not playing nice for a while.
- Generally the idea is to get rid of one player as soon as possible. At the highest levels of play (comp, generally) this is essential.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330728#Comment_3330728
Can still do that without bringing one yourself. You bringing one yourself doesn't benefit you at all once you get your 10 unlocks.
AFAIK you get triple BP from lunar hooks/gens.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335954#Comment_3335954
I actually tried now wraith with 2K and 10 hooks I maxed every other category expect sacrifice one and still no pip. I had probably like 100 hits and downs yeah I keep going for 4K:s. Worst thing was I let the last 2 escape.
That's bizarre. Wraith is probably my strongest 'pipper'.
Even at iri, maxing 3 categories should be enough on it's own that, if you killed two survivors, you'd pip. 4k (all maxed) would be a double pip at iri (afaik).
The only thing that's possible I guess is that you're camping or spending a lot of time around hooked survivors as that will bleed points from you via a penalty.
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@CheesyBabyBoi said:
gottem. roasted. dog slammed. obliterated. demolished.
Huh?
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335793#Comment_3335793
You're probably better than me but for me it very easy to depip in gold grade as well. All it requires is one bad chase or very effient survivors on gens. I have tried to decrease my mmr now though so my games are better but I don't think you're pipping with 1K maybe with 2K but I go for 4K as that gives +2 pips. I always aim for that 10+ hooks but just today I did that and only +1 pip even I played almost perfectly.
Hmm.
Okay, I wonder if this might be a playstyle thing. Let me explain how I'm almost always pipping at gold/iri by slightly gaming the system.
- Play the right killers. Instadown killers are an absolute no-no, as you're only getting 1 hit event. You want killers that can get a ton of hit events and short chases - Wraith, VMR Myers, Hag, Sadako and a few other hit and run killers are really great. Basically, you're pumping up your 'short chases' and 'hitting' numbers.
- Don't loiter around hooks.
- Surge and Pain Resonance are great too, as they'll count as 'kick' events, which also pump up your score.
- Try to get 2 hooks on everyone at least.
Doing this, even if I'm not 'winning' all my matches, I'll never depip and get pips pretty often. On a win, I'll often straight up double pip.
Give it a try.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
- Slugging kill (bleeding out) doesn't work
- Mori someone doesn't work
- If someone DC at any point, even when it is the last person and you won the whole game, it doesn't work.
I would allready have my last Adept on Wesker if any of these 3 things didn't happen. I got someone DC as last person when they got downed just in the end game, gg whole achievement ruined.
Wait, moris don't work?
Dammit that's stupid.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I finally got around to watching the game. Yes, the survivors were efficient, but how are players eating these Dead Hards? I think one of them wasn't blatantly obvious. There was no reason to swing at every other DH when he did. Are players struggling that much when it comes to reading movement?
I understand the headspace.
Either there's a lot of survivors who can hold their DH perfectly and only release it on a hit, or there's a lot of auto-DH in the wild right now.
So either I get to waste ages trying to bait it out, not knowing if they even have it or I can just swing, eat it and chase.
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@Deathstroke said:
You can pip with other playstyles but there are much bigger risk to depip so getting one survivor out of the game early is the best play. After that next play is to hook everyone else twice and then finish them off and slug for 4K. That is reliable way to +2 pip most games. If depip was removed killers could play more fair cause there would not be fear of it. Depipping is single most frustating thing in the game.
Not at all.
I've actually done a lot of testing on this - and you can pip all the way up to Gold without killing a single survivor.. At Gold you can pip off killing 1, but 2 makes it easier.
At Iri, you'll need to kill 2, preferably 3.
However, what really matters is the number of hooks you get and the number of hit events.
Also - before Iri, it's almost impossible to depip.
Keep in mind: I seldom intentionally tunnel and I never intentionally camp. I generally hit Iri 1 on killer around 8-10 days after the season starts, and that's with me playing some survivor in between those games.
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@crogers271 said:
The thing I found interesting about the video was saying that camping was less viable and tunneling more. If true, that's a trade I'd gladly take. When I get tunneled I at least get to play the game.
I really don't see a way that you can ever make it so a killer shouldn't tunnel (i.e. an unwise strategy decision), barring making this something other than an elimination game. Getting a survivor out will always be the most obvious strategy. Really the only reason not to as the killer is to try and make the game more fair outside top ranked MMR (which is a weird thing to ask someone to do, but that's were we are). They can make it harder (such as giving a speed boost to whichever survivor has been hooked the most), but it will always be powerful as you are taking out 1/4th of the opponent's power.
It does surprise me though that survivors on death hook don't play more cautiously, especially with the new hud. If you get hooked twice before anyone else be really cautious until you see that someone else is being chased.
The first paragraph is my exact sentiment.
I do wish the 'distraction' BP/emblem points were a bit more generous, but if I'm getting tunneled - unless it's a killer that can just ignore/negate the BT effect completely (Clown, PH, Cenobite and a few others) at least I can play.
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@Slaughterhouse3 said:
That's it.....that is the discussion that I am starting. lol
Love him too, basically main him on and off.
What always annoys me is that he's insanely reliant on map RNG - some maps just...do not have lockers anywhere useful whatsoever.
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I have not seen tunneling nurse in months so I doubt.
I haven't seen as much of her recently, probably because of the nerf.
BHVR has said if kill rates drop clearly they buff killers again
BHVR say a lot of things. I prefer to look at what they do.
I would suggest ds basekit with 80s timer and with the perk it could be 5s stun.
So long as it completely disables if it's a protection hit...sure? Otherwise this is going to be obnoxious to face as...ugh, the bodyblocks.
Survivor should also have 110% movement speed for 20-30s after unhooked.
So...ridiculous speed for an absurd duration, so they can basically sit on a gen in your face and be uncatchable, or just guarantee a bodyblock with your baseline DS?
Just - no.
It also should disable killer power for 5-10s so blight does not instantly catch you
We aren't playing Dead by Dayblight.
They should bring killer buffs in same patch starting with basekit corrupt and grim embrace.
Will never happen. Not in a million, billion years. Not a chance. Also - baseline GE would just mean one survivor hiding behind a wall and picking up their item over and over again to avoid crows.
Killer should also get 130% movement speed for 20-30s after hooking survivor but it would also get disabled sooner if you hit another survivor or use power because it would be bit too unfair I think.
This all sounds like a mess.
If I really wanted to 'fix' tunneling:
- After being unhooked, survivors are invulnerable for 20 seconds (extended by BT and/or OTR).
- Any conspicuous action ends this effect.
- Protection hits will end this effect.
- Being healed to full hp in any manner ends this effect.
- Toolboxes, medkits and HFSP nerfed.
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@RiskyKara said:
In short, I need a real thick lad and it feels funny that we don't have one yet.
I've always been a huge (huge) huge fan of Pyramid Head and one thing that's always been absolutely awful about him is the length of his power. Sure, it satisfies, sometimes, but so often (As I'm loathe to admit) it falls just an inch short, and a little too late. Of course as most people would readily agree to our wonderful Pyramid Father has two range add-ons that help close the deal. It does come with the tragic side effect that for most use cases it means you wouldn't want to bring anything else. When dealing with that style of power, length is King for my King.
I've recently explored the delights that other Killers may have to offer to scratch that itch and I've stumbled on the inspired Carmina. And boy let me tell you she has no issues when it comes to launching those bad boys to the end of any realm and beyond. But here's something I've been struggling with. More whiffs! I know, crazy right? Sure I more regularly get that satisfying hit with a noise of success like a Pavlovian dinner bell telling me it's time to eat. But I still find myself regularly salivating over nothing but a vague throb of the heart. Foul business.
Now what I was lacking for in length is exchanged for an incredible lacking in width. These birds are much too tiny. Let's be real here, if someone threw a rock at me the size of a bird, or a bird the size of a rock, I could reasonably step out of the way at a snails pace and be just fine. But feed that rock (or bird) a few french fries, and it's gonna be like Indiana Jones against a boulder. Even if you get away, you're still worse for the experience. And what's worse, there's more McCrows right after that one.
A lot of Carmina's add-ons are cute, but they don't seem to change a whole lot. I feel like Carmina based on her lore has a lot of love for the world and the creatures within it, even in the entities realm. Looking at her Mori we can absolutely see that holds true as she's actively denying the Entity a sacrifice to feed her precious babies. (After all, what is a Dwight but a piñata full of fries.) So it would surprise nobody to have a "French Fry" add-on that implies she feeds them as if they were ducks at a pond and she were the entire bakery.
In conclusion, girthier crows are what DBD needs. Give me a real beefy boy. It's good for the artist, and it's good for the birds.
Eh...
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335401#Comment_3335401
Really? I saw plenty of shrugging and being willing to eat the DS if it wasn't that urgent.
Yeah, you can't use DH now if BT comes into it. Not having to deal with DH is probably just one of those minor things that makes tunnelling a better strategy.
I could swear you can stack OTR and DH, and the endurance of OTR won't prevent DH.
I'd argue old DH had more anti-tunnel potential considering it worked while deep wounded. The fact new DH is useless while deep wounded is something a lot of people forget
I may be going nuts, but aren't the endurance effects of OTR/BT non-exclusive with DH?
Killers never hesitate when picking up a survivor anymore unless they are under a pallet or know a FL survivor is close by. Those are the only time I ever see killers wait before picking up
Not because DS is weak - trust me. It's because survivors think DS is weak, and don't really run it as much. Note - part of this is also because survivors have new perks to bring that are way scarier - Hyperfocus+Stakeout+Fogwise is just...so gross.
A survivor who isn't running that specific build can be easy pickings when it comes to tunnelling. In the same vein that killers who don't run gen perks will lose gens very quickly if that makes sense
Sure.
But they were easier pickings before.
Tbh, that isn't why Killers tunnel. I don't think Tunnelling is a taboo, its a tactic that works and wins games
That's why I do it in my games, I know if i make the match a 3 v 1 my chances of winning increase exponentially (no pun intended)
Think of it this way.
I play for BP, so I'm mostly concerned with getting my BBQ stacks and then 2 hooking. Winning is secondary.
-> BBQ nerfed.
Yeah okay, still playing a bit chill. Not going ultra sweat.
-> Get roflstomped by a HSFP squad who are insanely rude.
Nope, no more chill.
-
Eh...
I think the DS and DH nerfs made tunnelling a lot easier because before DS got nerfed, if the killer wanted to tunnel somebody they had to take a big gamble; either eat a long DS stun and then have a long chase afterwards or slug them and leave them on the floor.
Not really.
DH was no more/no less an anti-tunnel tool than it's new incarnation is.
DS - 3 seconds and 5 seconds aren't that different if you use it carefully. Again, I thought this perk was butt now, but it's actually fairly decent. You just need to go down somewhere that will allow you to get to safety in 3 seconds.
Now typically if you're going after someone who was just unhooked, if you hear grunts of pain then you just wait a bit and you're basically guaranteed an instant second stage, unless they have either DH and can time it well or they have DS which I will say is sitll a decent perk since it can allow you to keep a chase going.
Watch Ayrun's solo survivor streak.
It was batty how strong OTR, DH and DS can be when you layer them.
It is kind of a circular argument though, like what you said about survivor chaining multiple second chance perks is true as mentioned earlier but survivors say "well i run these perks because I get tunnelled by a killer with 4 slowdowns" and... Yeah you see the problem.
You misunderstand me.
I wasn't complaining.
The only perk in there that I have a gripe with is DH. I'm fine with people running stacked anti-tunnel stuff.
The people who scare me are the ones who run in a 4man, send you to Gideon or GoJ with some combination of Stakeout, Fogwise, Hyperfocus, PTS, DH and COH on everyone - who'll do gens in about 4-5 minutes maximum and will always know exactly where you are at all times.
Want to know why killers generally tunnel?
They got stomped and told to uninstall by a group like this at some point, and are trying to never repeat the process.
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@VoidOfMe said:
- 'Nice guy' killer builds are less viable/useful, due to the nerf to BBQ, Pop etc.
We can say the same for survivor perks
If you don't run the same meta perks you have no chance to escape
Whataboutism.
A. The survivor meta is more varied than I think it ever has been. Killer...not so much.
B. We aren't talking about survivor builds here.
C. The issue isn't people running stuff like BK or DH. It's the HSFP 4man SWFs that can blow through 5 gens in less than 5 minutes and know where you are at all times.
@Brokenbones said:
I mean
They made tunnelling really easy, like I know basekit BT, OTR etc. DS still helps, a bit.
But if you know OTR isn't there (There is a VERY OBVIOUS tell if a survivor has it), why wouldn't you go after the survivor who goes down in 1 hit instead of the one who takes 2 hits and can use the first hit to prolong the chase etc
Killers aren't scared of tunnelling anymore because it's way easier to deal with the consequences you might face for attempting it. Before you had to deal with the DS 5s stun on top of stuff like old DH. DH is still good, obviously but I think old DH was just unmatched.
...
How did they make tunneling 'really easy' as opposed to before?
Tunneling is only really an issue against solos, and now you at least have baseline BT, which you can chain into multiple second chance perks.
Tunneling is weaker now, on average, than it was before 6.1.0.
The difference is that killers have fewer options now - gens move faster, Eruption is going to go bye-bye, regression got nerfed hard, Garden of Joy is an abomination.
DH had no influence on tunneling.
DS...eh. It's fine at 3 seconds. I thought that it wouldn't be, but I was actually straight wrong on this.
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363237/otzdarva-on-tunneling-being-worse
If you want my opinion on this whole things.
Generators are only faster because Survivors feel more inclined to bring Generator-Speedup because of Generator-Slowdown. Killers feel more inclined to bring Generator-Slowdown because of the increased Generator Speeds. Killers feel more inclined to Tunnel and Camp because of the Generator Repair Speeds.
I personally think the game will be more healthy if Speedup and Slowdown were nerfed or had diminishing returns when stacking. DBD has a lot of fun perks, but both sides feel as if they cant use them because matches are either too quick or too slow without meta perks.
Huh?
I don't...think so.
- Generator-Speedup wasn't that much of an option pre 6.1.0. You had PTS, toolboxes and crap.
- Now you've got HSFP which is pretty decent solo and evil in SWFs.
- Generator slowdown was gutted in 6.1.0, with the only exceptions being Eruption, Thana, PR and PR+DMS. Thana was nerfed to complete uselessness - worse than it was before the buff. Eruption is going to be Thana'd. PR+DMS will be next, watch this space - the second Eruption goes bye-bye, the QQ train will pull into PR+DMS until that gets nerfed too.
- So now, gens are potentially faster than pre 6.1.0, and killers have weaker regression to deal with this. Now, with Eruption going - what do you expect them to do?
@VideoGameMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334340#Comment_3334340
I mean, it wasn't just killers. I think when the perk overhaul was announced, everyone went in having expectations (including me).
You'll note that @Firellius claimed this multiple times in the thread, but dodges every time someone asks him who 'killers' are. Because this is objectively not what 'killers' as a whole, wanted.
They wanted more viable choices and perks. Not less.
They wanted slower gens, not faster gens.
But, BHVR nerfed Thana, Ruin, Overcharge, PR, DMS and soon Eruption. Which means we'll soon be at a point where the killer perk meta will have less variety than it did before the meta shakeup.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334763#Comment_3334763
Tournament level of players should not be how the game is balanced. But if tunneling is nerfed lower tier killers will need to be buffed as that what is carrying them and keeping kill rates high. It's actually problem now killers can't be buffed until tunneling is nerfed. So nerfing tunneling would be just best for everyone lower tier killers could be actually made more viable to win other way. Only blights would probably not like that because they do it most in my experience. Probably next viable strat after that would be focusing your hooks between two survivors or target one over others.
- No, but it does demonstrate how the game plays in 'perfect' environments. Of course, most SWFs aren't comp, but neither are most killers.
- Kill rates are thrown off massively by the ridiculous rates of suicide (20% or more games have one).
- Lower tier killers weren't buffed for years. What makes you think BHVR are going to suddenly buff them now?
- How do you 'nerf tunneling'?
- Nurses tunnel more than Blights, and Clowns/PH/Trickster can tunnel harder than either.
- Here's why it's a problem. I start out, get an early down, hook them. Then I leave the hook. There are 4 Claudettes with similar skins. How do I avoid tunneling?
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@PowZapBamWoofMeow said:
Doctor and Plague got nerfed not because they are Nurse but because “oMg! tHeY aRe SoOoOo aNnOyInG tO pLaY aGaInSt!”
So that’s what they did. Well not a nerf per se but changed their powers and such.
Well guess what? I’m tired of going up against survivor groups who have 3 health states with all these protection perks.
Wait, Doctor and Plague got nerfed?
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334742#Comment_3334742
Then why do I hardly ever see it used? It's only useful if you have a full communicating team. And even then it's risky.
Same reason you don't see reassurance much, but you'll see it in every tournament game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334766#Comment_3334766
No, they didn't say 'it's a viable way to secure kills'. They said 'it's a valid strategy', or 'it's the only way to win'. It wouldn't make sense for them to say 'it's a viable way to secure kills', because everyone that complains about these tactics -knows- they're viable strategies. That's part of why they were complaining.
And while no, they didn't say they wanted them to be the most efficient tactics available, if anyone brought up the concept of nerfing those tactics, there would be more than enough pushback, ranging from 'it's just the killer doing their job' to 'they tried a single thing 6 years ago and that didn't work so no'.
Even in this thread there's a couple of people that are stating that tunnelling and camping should not be nerfed. The result is that the game is now balanced around camping and tunnelling being in the game. Killers aren't having fun. Survivors aren't having fun. But at least camping and tunnelling are still around.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334785#Comment_3334785
We at least agree on wanting the same end goals though.
Amen to that!
For the...ninth time now - who exactly is 'they' and why are they representative of all killers?
I keep asking this and you keep dodging.
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@jinx3d said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334874#Comment_3334874
i dont know, but it would have to be VERY strong. Old bbq sort of did it, but if people wanted to win, they didnt care about bp. its a nearly unwinnable battle
It would need to be at least a BP doubler like old BBQ with a powerful other benefit yeah.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328660#Comment_3328660
I want to add: reverse the Pharmacy and Botany Knowledge nerfs too
Yes, BK nerf. 33% of speed was enough and it didn't ruin medkits.
Nobody ran pharmacy.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I was waiting for the first Thread a la "Killers are leaving the game!!!" once the bonus is on Killer more than once a day. But if Survivors had the Bonus all the time, they needed to adapt.
Classical DBD-Forums.
...
Uh...how many times have we seen 'well survivor incentives therefore survivors are quitting' posts?
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333728#Comment_3333728
It was 100% nearly all day Saturday.
It's about half and half for me.
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@jinx3d said:
the only way to fix tunnelling is to heavily incentivize going for someone new. You could chase the full health Feng Min with 2/3 health states, or you can cut your time spent in half, and go for the injured Ace, wait out his bt, repeat this a few times and now the survivors are one person less. Its the best strategy for any killer.
Whether its a perk or a base ability, they need to make it equally or more benefitial to go for someone new. Either increased gen kick/regression (a base kit pop you only get when hooking someone different than the last person), or something equally strong. Until that happens, tunnelling will be the best strat, and with the nerfs to camping, hit and run especially, and the fact that adrenaline is meta making endgame builds harder, it will remain the best
Here's the thing though.
The meta trickles down from the top.
At a certain level of play, killers need to tunnel to even stand a chance of contesting a game. Now, this isn't representative of all levels of play - naturally - but if you force killers to 2 hook before killing anyone, you'd completely break comp or high MMR.
A perk to incentivize it...what would that even look like?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334244#Comment_3334244
Literally EVERYTHING the devs do that isn't hard-buffing killers 'will lead to unbridled tunnelling/camping', because it's the killers' beatstick. It's their answer to literally everything.
with the gen progress indicator allowing accurate timings
Like what does this even mean? Does this person think that people hit better skillchecks now because of this gen progress indicator? What the F are these 'accurate timings' supposed to be?
But no, this minute change is enough to go 'tunnel and camp' some more.
Because literally every change is.
You really need to be stripped of your toys if you're just going to ruin the game for everyone else the second anything happens that you don't like.
You seem to love referring to 'killers' as if one low-credibility account is representative of even a loose majority.
Also - that wasn't even what he said.
@IronKnight55 said:
Oh please! Most of you tunnel and camp already (especially since it's much easier to do). We see killers posting this crap after every update, lmao. Just go ahead and do it instead of telling us about it.
Define 'most'.
I'm now creeping up on 1,000 games in my dataset.
Camping games outside of it being a desperation move (and I don't think even you'd be so petty as to get salty with a killer for trying to camp out a single kill) are barely even double digits (12).
Tunneling games...not even 10%.