Omans
Omans
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It had been clear that healthy hook grabs were a terrible mechanic for years before this change.
The posters in this thread who still, even after the change, think it was a decent mechanic need to give their heads a shake. They are really telling on themselves that they never actually learned to play the killer role, but still want ed to win games by forcing super free and cheesy healthy hook grabs. Good riddance.
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Players who think hook grabs on healthy survivors are good for the game need to give their heads a shake.
It has been an issue for a long time.
And without fail, every time this topic is brought up several commenters say 'but we can't allow survivors to freely unhook!' They are not. Is it really hard to understand? That survivor who is making the unhook next to the killer is losing a health state. How in the world is that a free save?
I truly think the posters who oppose such a change (removing hook grabs on healthy survivors) are the players who get a hook and then never leave that first hook. Can't let those survivors get their 'free saves,' right?
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@Seraphor said:
The problem with hook grabs is the game of chicken that it results in. Having survivor and killer just standing there by a hook trying to psyche each other out. It's ridiculous.
We removed hatch standoffs, we removed Eruption's stalemate, and with DH now not universally used in every chase that game of chicken is also vastly negated. Same needs to happen here.
Removing hook grabs wouldn't remove anything of value from the game. Instead of grabbing the survivor, you would smack them, and with the current hit cooldown, you would be guaranteed a second whack once the unhook was made. So without hook grabs, hook trades are still guaranteed. How is that not good enough?
As a survivor making the rescue, you are trading two of your health states for one on the unhooked survivor. The killer is still in credit here.
The bonus is that camping killers would not be rewarded with double hooks for camping, they would have to make do with a "mere" hook trade.
This is the correct response to this topic.
All posters saying hook grabs on healthy survivors are healthy for the game need to give their heads a shake.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3389830#Comment_3389830
I know, right? Why are people pretending that my post is ridiculous? I feel like they need to see those add-ons in action when they play survivor against a good Blight. Maybe then they realize.
It is always the same 4 or 5 posters who vehemently argue against anything that might nerf any aspect of the killer role, acting as if we are still playing a version of the game with infinites around every corner and keys that can be used to 4-out a team. They should just be ignored.
Anyone with even a little sense and experience in the game can see that BOTH sides have things that are super busted and need to be looked at. Blight's addons, of course, are things that need to be looked at. Anyone saying otherwise isn't speaking in good faith.
Too bad the devs are busy nerfing one of the only decent addons on a weak killer like Billy.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378073#Comment_3378073
-" No, killers are absolutely not forced to play in the way you described to do well. A lot of killer players think they are better than they are. That strategy works for a LONG time all the way up to the highest mmrs. "
This is the same strategy used all the way to comp play. Survivors are efficient on gens so killers have to be efficient removing people from the game.
-"Most games, if you are actually as good a killer as you think, are easy wins at the top mmr. That's just fact."
There is a limit to how well you can play with weaker killers. If you must play trapper - no matter how good you are there is a limit to how skilled of a player you can win against. You're saying- that's not true. I'm sorry but you are not being honest or you are delusional. Nurse is massively more effective than Trapper.
-"And, maybe I am misunderstanding your point about the Nemesis game. You said you got a 3k against experienced survivors while using weaker addons, and you don't consider that a win? What? "
I am thinking English is your second language so that makes sense you might have some trouble understanding me. They were the ones who said I lost because one player of their 3 man SWF escaped.
"the players who are top killers in the game will be amazing at every killer with few exceptions. Sorry but that's just not true either."
Marth - one of the oldschool best Nurse mains ever sucked at Huntress. CMWinter used to play only pig and pretty much sucked as most of the other non M1 killers. Otz used to suck with a few killers until he did a 50 win streak to practice them and get better.
Incredibly rude, and honestly a bit strange to suggest English is someone's second language after your first post was littered with grammar mistakes, and the only reason you made a post directed at me is because you misunderstood what I was saying in the first place. Try to be a bit more considerate.
As for the rest, Trapper not being anywhere near as good as Nurse isn't really relevant to anything, so...
I've read enough of your posts to know that me replying any more won't be a good use of my time. You have picked your 'side': killer, and can't be convinced that, no, things are not dire for the killer role, even with actual top players telling you otherwise and top killer streamers showing you otherwise.
Are there things to fix for both sides? Yes. Is killer a weak role? No. Does a great killer player have the potential to win in all but the most extreme situations? Yes.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377502#Comment_3377502
"About your last point regarding the streamers you watch always having only potatoes in their games"
Check carefully what I said again - you're mixing my sentences/thoughts together.
-"But the killer role is in such a great spot right now."
Why would you say this? You think it's good gameplay that most of the killers are forced to play a tunnel/3 gen strategy or gtfo on every map? Most survivors hate playing against it. Most people playing killer don't want to have to tunnel to have a chance to win against gen tunneling.
-"I win the majority of my games while never camping or tunneling and only going for 12 hooks."
Why don't you show me some riveting games where you outplayed some top notch survivors while using a killer at least on the "B list" with weak addons (doctor, Pig, Legion, etc). I can log onto my brother's account and win every game with no perks/addons on Trapper because every round would be against complete noobs. It's not a big deal if you win unless you consider who you are winning against and what it required for you to win. People often miss this point when they say : well I played nurse with best everything and won 10/10 games tonight.
With that though in mind - one of the games I played today was against a 3 man SWF and a random. I used brown+yellow offerings and a map cancel offering as Nemesis (because it was 100% a 3 man swf if not a "sneaky" 4 man with one player on console). One player was just shy of 9000 hours, another was private and the third was about 3000 hours.
Their perks and items were much stronger than mine because I was playing a "fun" round. They were good loopers but I play Nemesis often and I hard countered what they wanted to do. Almost all of my whip attacks connected and when I did miss it was because T1 is incredibly easy to dodge if you're not a potato.
Somehow the SWF claimed victory in the end game chat because 1 played escaped through the door. I feel like you're the type to say : well you won so killer must be fine.
What I'm getting around to is that the best Nemesis or Doctor in the world is just going to look pathetic next to an "average" blight. That is foolish from a development standpoint. There should be no more than a 15% difference in power between the best killer and the worst killer. It's almost as if you are going into a fight and your options are : fist, rock, spear, flintlock pistol, glock 9mm, Uzi and Spectre Gunship. Why would you ever pick fist when Spectre Gunship exists? The sensible answer would be because fist can only play the fair killer maps and can't play against SWF.
-"I say this as a player with thousands and thousands of hours in the game."
And the way you talk about game balance makes it sound like you only have hundreds of hours in killer. I have been playing since 2016 so my hour count is pretty high as well. I have spent time equal to my hours played watching streamers to be on top of my game. When I watch Otz or truetalent play Nemesis I hear them say : "why didn't that hit," and I know the answer. I see them go for whips that are ambitious to say the least.
You can be sure they have better mindgame mouseroll moves but I can mechanically play Nemesis better than either of them; to be fair they can probably play the other 30 killers better than I do.
Sorry if it wasn't clear. I was just doing a general reply to the original poster. Wasn't trying to reply to you. I only read the top post and made that reply.
However, now I will reply to you. No, killers are absolutely not forced to play in the way you described to do well. A lot of killer players think they are better than they are. A lot of survivor players think that too, of course. But they often die because solo queue is a scary place to be. But those killer players who think they are better than they are? They can fall back on camping the first hook, tunneling the first person out very quickly. That strategy works for a LONG time all the way up to the highest mmrs. A lot of those killer players always play that way, and think they are really good for it.
It is a real failure in game balance that playing that way is so well rewarded so often, meanwhile quickly ending chases on multiple survivors while not camping or tunneling is rewarded less so.
Most games, if you are actually as good a killer as you think, are easy wins at the top mmr. That's just fact. Watch every top killer streamer get win after win. I'm a top killer on the Korean server. I've been as high as top 5 in hatches closed worldwide, and really high on Perfect Games on the stats website.
For the games against the top survivors all together (which are so, so rare), yes, of course you will have to play optimally (doable with most killers). But, and I think this is something you need to really think about, that survivor team needs to play as optimally as possible to win against me, too. One mistake against me? I win.
If you don't have that confidence as killer, I don't know why you think you should be able to win against the top survivors? If I wasn't as good as I am at survivor or killer I wouldn't expect to be able to win as much as I do.
And, maybe I am misunderstanding your point about the Nemesis game. You said you got a 3k against experienced survivors while using weaker addons, and you don't consider that a win? What? Yes, that is a win. Like, what...? A 3k is a win no matter how you look at it. I never slug the 3rd survivor looking for the 4th, so most of my games are 3k's with gens left and the last survivor jumping out the hatch.
Just a last comment: the players who are top killers in the game will be amazing at every killer with few exceptions (for example, I feel confident I can go head to head with top survivor players as most killers except Pinhead or Pyramid Head. Those killers require a lot of time to get better at for me and I can't be bothered.) Your last sentence leads me to believe you can still practice the killer role and get better at it. Maybe that will relieve some of the tension you are feeling towards the role.
I feel like I rambled a bit...In short, yes, optimal killer gameplay is boring as heck. Yes, optimal survivor gameplay is boring as heck too. That's why I go for 12 hook no camping, no tunneling games. In the very rare games where I do get matched up with equally top-skilled survivors then yes, I do have to play optimally to win which is, believe it or not, possible on the majority of killers. If you feel like you must camp and tunnel every game to win it means you are at a higher mmr then your actual skill set is. Top killers are, factually, winning the incredible majority of their matches (easy evidence: top killer streamers) just playing normally.
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About your last point regarding the streamers you watch always having only potatoes in their games: the survivors they are going against are made to look like potatoes by the streamer himself/herself.
No doubt when you watch the streamer who is considered really good at killer you think "hey this looks really easy, I can do that."
It looks easy because of their experience and skill. They make it look easy. So, even when they are facing the exact same skill level of opponents that you are (which is absolutely true - they are, if you are as good as you think), it looks like most of their opponents just aren't very good.
I say this as a player with thousands and thousands of hours in the game. You are very, very wrong with this entire post. If you aren't having fun with the game, that's fine. Take a break. No big deal. But the killer role is in such a great spot right now.
I win the majority of my games while never camping or tunneling and only going for 12 hooks. If I included camping/tunneling at optimal times in my gameplay, "losing" would be a rarity. This is the reality for really good killer players in the game right now.
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As someone who has thousands of hours in each role, I can confidently say that the killer role is SO much better than it has ever been.
If you face an equally skilled solo queue team? You are favored to win.
If you face an equally skilled SWF? You have the potential to win if you play 'optimally'.
Unfortunately, a lot of killer players got so used to being absolutely carried by Eruption, which was an absolutely busted perk. It will take a little time for their MMR to be adjusted back to normal.
Sure, there are some things that need to be fixed. There shouldn't be 4 medkits or 4 toolboxes in a game. Period. Prove Thyself and similar perks shouldn't give such a big boost to generator speed.
But honestly, the players still complaining about killer being a 'weak role' need to be completely ignored.
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@Peanits said:
What purpose would this actually serve other than encouraging elitism? One person's opinion is no more valid than someone else's just because their MMR is higher. Both of you are people playing a video game, we should be doing what we can to ensure that both of you have a good time. To say that only someone who's among the best in the world should have a say would imply that the opinions of the vast majority of people playing in the middle of the pack don't matter, which is incredibly selfish.
I really can't begin to stress how rare it is for someone to be near or above the matchmaking softcap for MMR. Far more people claim to be 'max MMR' when in reality, there's nowhere near that many people up there.
That said, that's what the community team is here for; to take feedback from everyone, including the people who are up there.
I don't think the poster is saying that only people at the very top of MMR should have the only say in how the game is balanced.
But it is fairly clear to most of the people actually in the top percentage of players in this game that the balance team doesn't seem to have that insight from top players that the poster says LoL devs have.
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I have enjoyed the queue times when playing survivor. I like to play both sides equally, so short queue times on both sides is great.
It has been fairly equal queue times with Eruption, so I am a bit afraid that survivor queues will take longer now.
However, I'll take longer survivor queues over a single perk HARD-carrying killers who don't deserve to win as many games as they have been.
Now if only the devs could do that for SWF, too. Just as I shouldn't lose to a killer much worse than me just because he put on Eruption, I shouldn't be at a big disadvantage against survivors who aren't really that good, but just happen to be in a group. (Please take away stacking items like medkits or toolboxes for SWF...please. That would be such a good start).
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It took years to nerf the best addon from the best killer (Nurse's purple range addon).
It took years to nerf moris which were so hilariously imbalanced. (and keys).
Blight's OP addons have yet to be touched.
It took a long time to fix Legion when he first came out, while so many killer users were exploiting him.
Both sides have things that are not taken care of by the devs.
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This is the best post I've seen on these forums in quite a while.
This is one of the biggest issues in the game and it isn't talked about as much as it should be. Instead, half this forum is posters who never play the other side crying because they have been conditioned to think they should win every game (while always bringing the best (OP)) stuff in the game. Whether it is all the killer users who have been HARD carried by Eruption lately, or 4-man SWF's bringing 4 good medkits or toolboxes, the potential for one side to bring absolutely overwhelming items/addons and be at a huge advantage because of that is a big issue.
One idea I have is for only one item to be allowed in a lobby. If someone has a medkit, sorry - pick another item. 4 medkits at the start of the game makes it way too advantageous. Or 4 toolboxes. Or a Blight bringing his best addons/a stealth killer bringing an indoor map and Eruption/COB.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341440#Comment_3341440
PR complained about a lot before the eruption buff. Well PR+DMS complained about a lot. Now eruption is gone you see it come back in the forums bc 90% of killers will have PR+DMS since it's the next-best perk combo. When that happens you see survivors come on here and say things like "PR+DMS is so boring", "They need to nerf PR+DMS!" and so on. When that happens the devs do what they always do with overused killer perks/addons. They nerf them to the ground so no killer will run it again.
At that time PR was nerfed. It was quite strong as a perk. Now it is in such a good spot.
As I mentioned, if there are some people crying about PR it will be because they don’t have much experience in the game, like the occasional post about Windows of Opporunity shows.
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Eruption created arguably the least fun meta the game has ever seen. In no way was the meta 'varied' as you said. It was easily in the top 5 of OP perks ever made.
It being absolutely destroyed like this is not a big deal. In fact, it is a shame it took so long to nerf it. It ruined countless games while being active from when it was buffed until now.
There are hundreds of perks in the game. You'll get over it. You never used it before, and you'll be completely fine never using it again (undoubtedly changing all your loadouts to have the next best perk).
And you are completely wrong about Pain Resonance. There will be no outcry for it to be nerfed because it feels fair to use and is not completely busted like Eruption. Or, if there is the occasional post about it, it will be like Windows of Opporunity posts (the people who complain about it are complete noobs).
So yeah, did they nerf it too hard? Yeah. Is it a big deal? Not even a little bit.
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This Eruption meta has really given a lot of killer players an inflated sense of how good they actually are.
It really should be changed soon so that match making can be given time to heal.
Pretty predictable result - killer players finding a perk combo in Eruption and CoB that carries games super hard. Get lots of undeserved wins due to said perk combo. Go up against players much better than them and still have a hard time even with that combo because of massive skill difference, but still feel they should be able to compete in that match due to super OP perk combo.
I've been meeting a lot of really bad killers lately who have obviously been solely relying on this combo. They are going to have a rough time of it when the Eruption nerf comes..
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From survivors: a full stack SWF of all strong players bringing 4 super strong items, map offerings and trying to get out in world record time. This isn't a game that supports tournament style play very well. Calm down. Realize that what you're doing isn't balanced.
From killers: same side of the coin - best killer (Nurse, Blight), Eruption/CoB, hard tunneling the first hooked survivor at 5 gens and/or super advantageous map offering (indoor map wraith with sloppy, cob/eruption - so obnoxious). Cannibal first hook face camping. Just so boring.
There are still so many things that either side can do that makes the game super lopsided balance-wise before the game has even started. And too many players play that way every game. Super unfun.
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Too bad about the VOD being deleted.
If it happens again just say "I was such a big fan of you. So disappointing you would lie like this about me", even if you've never seen their channel. And then never think about them again.
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Players being able to stack 4 medkits or 4 toolboxes on top of Prove Thyself and Resilience is one huge reason for that. SWF teams shouldn't be able to stack items.
Some maps just kill any killer's pressure. Terrible map balance. (some terrible map spawns for survivors too though).
The solo queue update definitely helped players better coordinate. Gave much more information so they can play smarter.
Another thing that some killers these days are really feeling is many killers (not saying you) are super boosted by the Eruption cob combo, so they get put with players who are so much better than them, and just can't keep up. Feel sorry for them when Eruption gets the nerf.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337496#Comment_3337496
'Whatever you say'...mate.
Just own up to it.
'I was wrong and insulted you for literally no reason, and made a fool of myself. I'm sorry'.
Is that really so hard for folks these days to...just apologize?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337473#Comment_3337473
I find that it gets a little nutty during events, because of all the returning folks, but then it settles in.
It's not perfect, and lobby dodges or whatever causes SBMM to poop the sheets occasionally...yeah, that needs to be fixed already, but by and large my matches are way fairer.
There is one thing that seems to be a thing now - 1 really strong survivor and 3 'okay' survivors against me, which is generally a 4k. That's weird.
On the other hand, killer incentive seems to be more and more common.
Really have no idea what's going on.
LOL..what?? THAT'S how you took that response? Wow.
The only reason I responded to your posts in the first place was because of your amazing (lol) take on Eruption. Since then you've walked it back and now are just scared the devs will destroy the perk and leave nothing left (funny how so many players who never even used Eruption in the first place are so worried about that all of a sudden).
Maybe I am missing all your posts that are advocating for a fair and equal game for both sides, but every thread I read that you post in is definitely not that.
You may see yourself as a poster who is interested in a fair and balanced game for both sides, but that is not how it comes off, at all.
My brief response before was because I've realized you won't see sense. No point responding anymore.
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337308#Comment_3337308
You have to be joking, are you some kind of us vs them person who genuinely thinks that people have to take sides in this game. Like dude you come up with the worst takes constantly that only benefit one side Starlost at least has reasonable takes for both sides unlike you. If the game was balanced by you I wouldn't even bother touching it again so get out of here with your "don't bother posting" because if anyone shouldn't be reasoned with it would be you.
Basically every single one of my "takes" have been, or are being implemented into the game and are praised by the player base as great balance moves. I'd like you to specifically mention one of my "takes" because from your first sentence asking if I am an us vs them player I seriosuly doubt you know at all what you are talking about as basically all of my posts are advocating for balance on both sides. Get out of here with this.
@foxsansbox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337333#Comment_3337333
This, I'm not gonna waste airspace engaging with him but I don't mind hopping in to let you know I see the exact same pattern with his behavior that you do.
Months later, even. At least he's consistently awful with his takes.
Still upset you were so out of touch in regards to Nurse, I see. Just because you were wrong doesn't mean you need to get upset about it. It's a really bad look.
Funny how none of you can even mention one of my terrible takes. Yet I can for yours. You actually thought Nurse was in a fine state before her nerf. Literally one of the worst takes in all of DBD..
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337308#Comment_3337308
Except, you know, all the stuff I post in regards to survivor.
Remember: every time you lie about someone else, you get a half-inch shorter.
Sigh..sure..
Whatever you say.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337159#Comment_3337159
SupaAlf won 500 games out of 500 games with Nurse, so 99% is maybe even understatement.
I don't know any multiplayer game where 1 player allowed to have 90+% winrate.
4 vs 4 doesn't count since both sides need to have 4 good players to win, while in dbd one side only needs one player to win almost every game.
I mean I understand that you want to win every game as killer, while eating snacks and going for 12 hooks, but its still unbalanced.
Don't even respond to that guy. He is one of the biggest killer-bias posters on the forums. Everything he posts is only supportive of killers.
It is too bad there are so many posters like that who are only interested in strenghtening their preferred side rather than a fun, balanced game for both sides.
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If you are good at killer you can reach rank 1 easily playing a 12 hook playstyle game with no camping and no tunneling.
Not sure if the Eruption meta has made much of the killer player base think they are better than they are, but that is my theory.
There are loads of boosted survivors, and just as many boosted killers.
I reach rank 1 in under a week as killer with that playstyle.
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Eruption is easily in the top 5 of perks that have been most unhealthy in this game's lifespan.
The posters in this thread saying they think Eruption is fine (the same posters who have been defending Eruption all this time) really need to rethink how they view game balance.
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I played games today and yesterday on the Korean server. About 20 matches as survivor in total. One, single match didn't have a killer using Eruption. The killer was using plaything and pentimento.
Every other game had Eruption. Most had Call of Brine (which isn't really an issue on its own).
On my server eruption not being used by the killer is much rarer than it being used.
It is a huge problem.
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Instead of that how about we make it so you can automatically and randomly fill bloodwebs.
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Eruption will one hundred percent, absolutely, be nerfed. As it should be. Quote me on that. And it is as clear as day why it needs to be nerfed.
Anyone who tells you Eruption is fine for game health is either lying or is completely oblivious to what is good for game balance.
It is as simple as that.
@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360395/do-you-think-eruption-needs-a-nerf
It doesn't need a nerf at all. Never got problems with eruption, and for everyone who complain about it: get ######### good. It's a skill issue. It's like pain resonance: oh I know the killer has pain resonance, I don't want my gen to be blocked with dms, so I stop doing the gen, wait for the hook, let the gen pop and continue with it. Eruption is a little different, because in solo q can possibly be lethal but because the communications is absent. I play only with my swf, and we say "I die" like 2 seconds before the killer can hit us and bring us to dying state. So we prevent eruption.
Get good instead of crying for nerfs where aren't needed. And for soloq, I'm sorry, but this game can't be balanced around you all, and you can't cry for a nerf where isn't needed.
So incredibly wrong.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310113#Comment_3310113
I love this player base.
Survivors on Strong Perks for Killers:
- They are getting wins they 'don't deserve' and using 'crutch perks'.
- They are 'carried' by the perk, as if it somehow plays the game for them.
- Some perks 'reward losing' (This is Survivors claiming Killers lost at 5 gens popping, as if the exit gates are a suggestion and not a goal. Yes, some Survivors are literally demanding NoEd be nerfed based on their concept of a win, and not the game's actual win-state).
- Perks showing up every match is a sign they are OP and 'the META should be changed' because Survivors are 'bored seeing the same perks all the time'. Yes; Survivors think their opponents' choices should be changed based on how much fun THEY are having.
Survivors on Strong Perks for Survivors:
- Perfectly fine. Killers need to stop whining and 'git gud'.
- And 'learn to play'.
- Perks showing up every match is a sign they are fun perks.
- Did we mention 'git gud'?
Oh yeah, and Killers should never, EVER tunnel, camp, or slug. All those things somehow give Killers 50 billion kills per match and ruin the fun for Survivors. So, none of it is allowed and all of it should be punished by the game uninstalling itself and setting their SSD on fire.
Or at least giving Survivors mechanics they can abuse at-will to screw the Killers out of kills and get free unhooks all day long. Because only Survivor fun matters.
Yet another player blinded by their desire for one side to be much better than the other.
It's too bad so many players only want one side to do well.
Before you launch into another rant, I often and repeatedly say that the best (OP) things on the survivor side need to be looked at too.
Prove Thyself.
Map creation, in order to lessen the number of super strong pallets/windows that can be linked together.
Item/perk stacking in swf (removed)
But every post you make is complaining boo hoo killers.
I would even suggest that if you are in a group of 3 or 4 then you should only be allowed 3 perks instead of 4. But that might be too radical an idea.
Why are there so few players who want both sides to have equal fun? I don’t understand it.
The biggest issue in the game right now is Eruption. That is undeniable. Of course there are issues on both sides. But Eruption is by far the biggest right now, no question.
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Wesker - fun to play as and against
Huntress - frustration from playing as her is due to current map creation, frustration from playing against her is slightly large hitboxes, but that doesn't take away from how fun it is to dodge hatchets well
Nurse - she has a great design. Too bad she is super OP. Hope this patch goes to fixing that.
Demo - simple, easy to understand. His addons and portals could use some QOL adjustments.
Dredge - if Wesker didn't come out right after Dredge I would have much more time on Dredge
Worst 5 (in no specific order):
Artist (Dead man's switch gameplay is so, so boring.
Knight - such a shame to make a killer like this after such a great killer like wesker
Trickster - enough said
Hag - boring to play as and against
honorable mention to Legion when they first came out (worst character design decision I've maybe ever seen).
Also, Cannibal is a great design, but he is still able to face camp with impunity, so until that changes he is down at the bottom
All of the above 5 worst killers have the potential to basically remove any interactivity between players.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310459#Comment_3310459
As I, and a bunch of other folks have suggested - make Eruption work on hooking rather than downs, meaning that it would be easier for solos to counter.
Now, let's say that do that. Will this:
A. Get people to stop complaining about it?
B. Not put a dent in the QQ?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310261#Comment_3310261
CoH is a problem.
WoO is not only not a problem, but it's absolutely essential for those of us who either have crappy eyesight or play in a room with a lot of screen glare. It's not a massively strong perk, but it's a really, really comfortable perk to have because of how stupidly dark this game can be.
Honestly, on the survivor end of things, Fogwise in SWF is ridiculous - almost as good as prenerf OoO. And we're now starting to see straight up genrush squads emerging again with some of the insane 'do gens faster' combos.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310404#Comment_3310404
The WoO chap was another PH avatar, not him.
No, Eruption doesn't do that. Eruption is annoying against solo queue, but it's balanced against SWF.
Think of it this way.
Survivors can choose to play in a SWF or play solo.
Killers cannot choose not to face SWF.
BHVR have categorically said that they will never balance SWF and solo differently.
Therefore, the only fair route is balancing this game around SWF. Because this game doesn't have 2 sides - it has 3. With two possible match-ups (killer v solo, killer v SWF), meaning that if you balance this game around killer v solo, killers are absolutely borked against SWFs.
I'm glad the devs aren't swayed by how you think the game should be balanced.
Perks have always been adjusted when they greatly affect one of the 'three groups' of players.
Object of Obsession was a huge buff to SWF, and in many cases detrimental to solo. Ruin+Undying was almost as 'annoying to solo' - quite the under statement - as current Eruption is to solo, while just being okay against SWF (sound familiar?). And it was nerfed.
I'm not sure why you think players who choose the killer role should be spoon-fed free wins in the vast majority of their games against solos(which is what you are advocating for).
There are lots of balance issues in the game, but the fact is as a killer unless you are facing the absolute best tournament level survivors on comms then you have the potential to win every game. Facing those survivors, however, is a statistical rarity. I am a top player on my server and the number of times I have had to face those kinds of survivors (all in a group on comms, all tournament level) is vanishingly rare. It happens, of course, but very, very rarely.
It sucks that if four of the best survivors on comms face one of the best killer players, the survivors will have an advantage (unless the killer is full-loadout nurse/Blight). But it is much better than the alternative of what you are suggesting, that solo players just be lambs to the slaughter against equally skilled killer players.
Let's just leave it here. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours.
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@DashMonsta008XV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310113#Comment_3310113
You can deny it all you want, but it is absolutely carrying killers to easy wins they don’t deserve.
That right there, is the mentality of survivors and what killer mains are against.Getting value from a perk because you only have 4 vs 16,1 vs 4 .You certainly had to put the effort in chasing the survivor,mind you possibly fully healed but you played to the best of your ability won the chase but you shouldn't be rewarded against three survivors running prove thy self with one gen left on the board,but you as a survivor should be rewarded for stacking perks together sitting there waiting for a prompt so you can immediately run to the gate and leave if not already have someone waiting at the gate when last gen got rushed like the others?Using speed boosters such a lithe to dart to the middle the map wasting more time, while you pre slam a pallet and use your anti septic to fully heal.
Hypothetically if I just slug you and try to get back to the gen on the other side of the map only for the gen to go off in my face because the one survivor jumped in my face and that was enough time to finish the gen, and have you and your fellow teammates jet away with adrenaline or sprint burst?it's okay to have these perks stackable for survivors but let's make them not stackable for a Nurse who runs a perk that reward's them for locating a player or a greedy survivor who insta saves , because they camped nearby and got caught after unhooking and their chase didn't last long enough for friends to finish the gen under 40's
Wow no perks should ever give the killer value even though most likely two of the perks the killer ran didn't contribute to the match 2 perks vs 16 fully functional perks is something a killer main shouldn't be rewarded for, That is hilarious
In your next post you said Windows of Opportunity is carrying people to wins they don’t deserve. Lol. Enough said.
Of course there are things on the survivor side carrying people to wins they don't deserve (WoO is absolutely not one, and I don't even use it before you say I do). The most serious of which is just playing in an SWF. That is beside the point right now. Just because one thing is broken doesn't mean another thing isn't.
SWF gives easy wins. So I don’t play SWF. There is almost no challenge if all 4 players are good.
SWF should be nerfed - no stacking perks, no stacking items, probably some other things too.
However, eruption also gives super easy wins in the vast majority of games played. It absolutely hard carries. You can deny it all you want, but it is true.
Take a step back and think about what is good for both sides, not just the one you play the most.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360042/blight-still-needs-nerfs
And here we go again. Chalk another on up for the 'called it-s'.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310073#Comment_3310073
It's more that it's very annoying being a killer main, because whatever killer or perk meta is in vogue, it will be bitterly complained about until it's gutted.
See: Thana and Ruin, and almost certainly Eruption.
While it is true that the devs swing the nerf hammer too hard at times, it is very easy to see if one perk is extremely overtuned. Currently it is Eruption. You can deny it all you want, but it is absolutely carrying killers to easy wins they don’t deserve. I've been telling players for months not to rely on it because it is obviously a busted perk. If you are disappointed at that, it's also on you.
Same with Nurse. This has been coming for her for a long, long time. Players who knew that, and didn’t rely on using a killer who gives too much power to the user, aren't terribly disappointed.
Basically: stop being carried by only the most OP stuff, just let yourself fall back to the mmr you should be at. You'll be much happier.
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@H2H said:
exactly what I thought, the instant nurse gets nerfed the blight whining starts
So many people on these forums have been consistently saying for a long time that Blight's best addons are troublesome.
In what way, shape, or form is this the start of 'Blight whining'?
I don't agree his basekit should be changed. But it is a pretty consensus opinion that his addons give the already second most powerful killer in the game a huge boost in power.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306979#Comment_3306979
- Shrug. This weird attempt at an ad-hom fails...mostly because I have no idea why you're even trying it.
- Why would the Korean server have a different meta to the rest of the world? And no your claim of 12 games doesn't trump the actual data we have available.
- 'I don't believe your anecdotal evidence. Now here's my anecdotal evidence. Believe it!'.
- Your story: Killer gets a down. Killer kicks gen. Killer blocks unhook. There's a missing step in this, unless he's just leaving people slugged - in which case, BHVR have a change to slugging in the works. If he's kicking the gen after the hook, that's time enough to unhook. If the killer is kicking the gen before hooking, that's time to sabo or set up a save. Either way, you know that gen is Erupted now and have plenty of time to let go before the next down, then just get back on it.
- Community Cup...absolutely new players...I'm going to let you Google a few things and you'll see why this gave me a chuckle. (Hint: There's nobody absolutely new to the game in this tournament, it's as close to an official tournament as DbD has).
- Eruption is fine against SWF. I'll stand by that, 100%. It is a problem against solos, but only because it's difficult for solos to tell when someone is about to go down. So...make it work like PR does.
- No, because...reality? Survivors can choose to play in a SWF. Killers cannot choose not to face SWFs. You thus cannot balance the game around solos, because that makes SWF almost unbeatable at the same MMR, which would be...massively unfair to killers, unless you give them the option to not play against SWFs.
- He's talking about a killer that can mysteriously reapply Eruption to gens while also tunneling someone off hook. You're talking about a killer that can mysteriously hook someone while reapplying Eruption.
- That's not a counter argument to...literally anything I said. Remember - when you have to resort to a dodge or an ad-hom, you concede the point.
1) That is not what "ad-hom" is.
2) The data from the unofficial site, which as I already showed you does not account for even close to a majority of the players. Sigh..
3) Based on several of the posts you have made. It is pretty clear you don't understand DBD very well.
4)...lol...? Like, sorry. It's just funny.
5) Not going to bother.
6) You were quite clearly saying Eruption was completely fine, no issue, for quite a while. Now it should work as PR does? Soon you will be saying Eruption is actually an issue.
7 - arguing with yourself. 8 - again, arguing with yourself. 9 - please, just stop. If you look back in a few months at your posts from these eruption threads you will be quite embarassed..
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306807#Comment_3306807
Uh...what?
- Yes, I play survivor...about 60/40 in favor of killer.
- Going off Nightlight, PR is still more common than Eruption.
- That's absolutely not the most common playstyle, either in my own games or watching streamers.
- How is the killer automatically hooking folks in your equation?
- Watching the community cup, killers ran Eruption, slugged, tunneled, camped and still had close/losing games - on killer sided maps against survivor teams that had strict restrictions on what they could bring.
- Is Eruption overtuned? Against solos...I wouldn't say 'overtuned', I'd say 'annoying'. It's fine against SWF.
- We cannot balance this game around solo queue.
- What you're describing isn't what the OP is describing, and that's what I was responding to.
- Does Eruption need a change? Eh...maybe. Let it work on hook, rather than on down so it has a bit more reliable counterplay. But we both know that it won't put a dent in the complaining.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306725#Comment_3306725
No, that would completely gut the perk.
Keep it as is, make it work on hook rather than on down so folks can counter it in solo a bit easier.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306855#Comment_3306855
Yeah, this stuff grinds my gears a bit.
I hook someone, but there's a survivor following me like a puppy and immediately tries to unhook in my face. So, okay? I let them unhook, down them and hook them.
5 seconds later, the person who got unhooked is sitting on a gen about 2m away and gets grabbed. They then DC and call me a tunneler in postgame.
1) 60/40 which actually means 80/20, and that 20 is SWF. Sure.
2) I played 12 games as survivor today. Not a single killer was without Eruption. These players are on the Korean server. None of them are using whatever site Nightlight is. Without exaggeration, easily 95%+ of the killers I go against have Eruption.
3) it is almost the only playstyle used on this server. If you don't experience it you are either low mmr or very lucky when you do happen to play solo queue.
4) what..?
5) Of these strange tournaments I've seen there are always players who seem to be absolutely new at the game.
6) this point tells on you so badly
7) ah, because you said so
8 + 9) you really should think more about your strong bias before posting.
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It is actually shocking that the devs haven't made this very simple change to SWF's - no stacking perks or items.
That would eliminate 4 toolboxes or 4 medkit games. There wouldn't be four of the same exhaustion perk.
I'm sure there are some other changes that could reduce the power of SWF in a fair way while also not nerfing solo queue which is in a dire state right now. Devs don't seem too bothered, though.
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@Marik1987 said:
Its fascinating. I read complains about the game in every thread, its unreal.
For the most part I love the game and say: Thanks BHVR for this awesome game.
Issues? Definitely! But still my favourite game over the last year.
A perk that was meant to help combat one of the least fun playstyles isn't working as intended. That warrants discussion.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/359567/eruption-encourages-tunneling
Killers tunnel because if you try to two hook everyone before killing anyone, you've probably already lost. Against decent opponents, you have to try and eliminate someone early. Yes, it's not especially fun for that person, but you can't exactly blame the killer for approaching the game like this.
Eruption is popular because it's the most effective form of regression killers have access to at present.
Once the forums get it Thana'd, it'll be PR+DMS every game until that gets nerfed too. Then probably CoB and Overcharge. And on and on we go.
That said - Eruption and tunneling don't really go well together, because once it triggers you need to reapply it. And why is the tunneled person sticking around while they reapply? I'm...not seeing it.
Sorry, but your comments read like you actually don't play survivor at all.
The most common playstyle these days is for a killer to get a down, quickly kick the nearest gen to set up eruption, go back to the hook to block the unhook, and it's all just going through the motions from there. Do you think the killer is going across the map and back? No. He is staying as close as possible to the hook while not instigating other chases, just kicking the closest gens which could absolutely be part of a 3-gen which basically secures the win with one perk.
It's certainly not how I play when I do killer, which is about half the time I play. Maybe it isn't how you play, but it is by far the most common playstyle to face right now.
It has also been explained to you how overtuned Eruption is, so please don’t pretend you don't understand exactly how OP it is.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306508#Comment_3306508
Or... and hear me out. They don´t want to make decisions only based on the current opinion of the day. Like they did with the original Freddy release. Where they nerfed him 1 week after his release, because people disconnected against him.
Having the lowest kill rate on average and no particular high kill rate in the top 5% also plays a factor here. As her being unbeatable would reflect in the statistics.
Yeah, you’re right. Let's give them another 5 years with Nurse as she is just to make sure the decision isn't too rushed. /eyeroll
@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306508#Comment_3306508
Or maybe it would mean they know better than some Survivors who are angry they lost again?
There are some posters who, even after reading only one thing they post, it is very easy to see they have no understanding of the game.
This is one of those times.
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@Tsulan said:
I wonder what would happen if the devs actually came out and said: "nurse is fine, no changes planned"
It would just be further confirmation that they don’t really know what they are doing when it comes to balance.
-
When the devs inevitably nerf Eruption, as they will because it is incredibly overtuned, I urge the posters who are saying Eruption is fine to reconsider your thoughts on how this game should be balanced.
Your views on what is and isn't balanced is incredibly flawed.
Maybe it is because you only play killer while using Eruption, and it has carried you to an MMR you don't deserve to be at so even with Eruption you are having trouble. (i think this is the most common)
Or maybe it is because when you do play survivor you only play in a group that does callouts, so you have no clue why Eruption is such a big deal.
Or maybe your MMR is so low that even a killer with no perks or addons is a struggle to go against, so whether or not any single perk is strong or not is hard to determine.
Whatever it is, please, reconsider how you think about game balance after you are shown to be insurmountably incorrect.
-
Seeing all these posts from people saying Nurse is fine is really disheartening.
It is clear they have no idea why Nurse is not a balanced killer, which is fine - whatever. There are always lots of bad takes on game forums, so that in itself is not a big deal.
But, the thing is, I have a feeling the balance team thinks the same way these players do. The balance team has a history of simply mind-boggling balance decisions, and seem to buff and nerf things for no rhyme or reason.
I'm still perplexed at their decision to nerf Billy the way they did, only to make a killer (Blight) better than Billy was in almost every way. Billy's biggest issue was his strongest addon combo, and yet even Blight has several addons that are more powerful than Billy's best stuff was.
The fact there is always two to three perks on each side that are way, way, way overtuned is another sign they don’t know what they are doing. Like, how are Prove Thyself/stacking perks as an SWF team, and Eruption/Call of Brine allowed to stay the way they are for so long? It is mind-boggling. Truly.
Their balance team is just really bad. Unfortunate, but true. That's the only reason Nurse hasn't been nerfed. Or why Eruption is still busted. Or why SWF hasn't had some restrictions added like no stacking of perks/items. Or why solo queue is still in the worst state it has ever been in.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297159#Comment_3297159
Amazing as always, lord commander of the anti-nurse crusaders, coming here without argument and choosing to dismiss me in person instead my arguments. Truly astounding you found your way into a nurse related thread where all the nurse
defenderscrusaders flocked to. You can also spare the effort to call me a nurse main or defender, I never played nurse due to hating her fatigue.In your words: lol
I remarked on one thing you said - your argument, which I put in quotations.
That one thing you said, if you actually believe it, shows you have very little understanding of what would be a good choice for game balance/health.
---
There are definitely posters on these forums who are firmly on the side of survivors, and their bias very clearly blinds their judgement and reasoning. Same thing can be said for posters who blindly defend everything on the killer side, too, though, not caring whether or not it negatively affects game health/balance. I think it is quite clear which way you lean.
There, now I actually did what you suggested I did.
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@Donleov said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297159#Comment_3297159
But he's right, there is people that consider nerfing Sadako, how can you even start to talk about balancing nurse, when people think that Sadako is in a good spot?
Everyone talking about Sadako suggests she probably needs a buff, with her one extremely unfun playstyle needing to be altered.
And nurse needed to be looked at before Sadako was even a killer, so..
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297137#Comment_3297137
Oh, boy, where do I start here?
- Eruption isn't old moris and keys, which I've never defended.
- Eruption is strong against solos, but completely fine against SWFs. And this game cannot be balanced around solo play.
- Let's be honest here though. BHVR nerfs Eruption due to the forum QQ, as they always seem to with killer perks. Do you think that this stops the complaining, or will people just move on to whatever the new meta killer perk becomes? We both know the answer to that.
- Mass DCs/suicides/AFKs are absolutely the biggest problem in the game - they cause a ton of losses that should not have happened and inflate kill rates to an insane level. I run weird perks, play weird killers and generally bring flans. I don't tunnel or camp outside of EOGC. I still see a suicide or a DC in...honestly, maybe 30%+ of my games. How is that not a problem?
- Wraith is a 'C' tier killer. He's incredible at stomping newer players, but experienced teams can run rings around him. With the right flashlight addons, you can burn him before he decloaks.
- He's not Trapper or Knight levels of bad, but he's still very mediocre.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297155#Comment_3297155
- Yes. But that's been the game since it's inception, and probably not something you can change. Like...how would you even fix that? Let survivors see killer perks/offerings and vice versa?
- Maps...sure? But I'd say that for every time I lose because I got sent to Badham, I win 3 games because the first person I downed either suicides, goes AFK or DCs.
- MMR will never be perfect, but it's a million times better than RBMM. Yes, there are some weird matches here and there - but these tend to be a product of a long queue time or lobby dodges.
- Dodge any 'full' lobbies you get dropped into, or lobbies where someone leaves and you'll see what I mean.
- MMR was a little bit more consistent before the changes, but people were complaining about queue times.
- Again, most of the time you can't blame DCs on anything besides players sulking and being BM. Again, I'm probably the nicest, fairest killer you'll run into all day, and I still get DCs, AFKs and suicides out the wazoo. This is a matter of there being either only really petty penalties or none at all for quitting and spoiling the game.
Eruption is the biggest issue in the game right now, and it isn't even close.
D/C's do not count towards kill rate. Suicides are very rare in my games, with AFK's being almost nonexistant. Maybe it is a region thing, but I don't even think that is true. I watch streams from other regions too and they rarely happen.
You would fix the extreme imbalance by nerfing the things that are too strong (top killers with best addons, SWF ability to stack perks and addons) and go from there. Also, buffing things that are too weak (weakest killers and solo queue). There doesn't need to be such a huge gap between the best and the worst. I hate facing a killer who I am just as good as, and yet having absolutely no chance to escape because that killer chose Nurse with her best addons and I am solo. I would say the same the other way around, too, but I don't play SWF.
Again, sounds like a region thing. D/c's, AFK's, Suicides are such a nonissue on the asian server. If they are a huge issue on your server, I'm sorry.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Once all Killers are in that "Blight" range of power, she just doesnt stand out enough anymore to warrant changes. Nurse is only a problem because the low tiers are so much worse than top tiers.
We dont need to hammer down the nail sticking out when we pulled the rest up to its height. It's stupid this stupid metaphor doesnt click for Survivor Mainsᵀᵐ when its applied to killers.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296232#Comment_3296232
"sloggingly braindead follow a survivor and then blink over the pallet they try to drop" . Your idea for a nurse change just describes the Huntress strategy many people loathe: "sloggingly braindead follow a survivor and then chug a hatchet in melee range".
"Nurse is only a problem because the low tiers are so much worse than top tiers"
Please tell me you've just been trolling this whole time. That would be so much better than you actually believing what you just wrote.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297137#Comment_3297137
And which would be the real problem instead?
The ability for one side to choose to have a decided advantage before the game even begins (OP killer with best addons, strong swf team with map offering, 4 toolboxes/medkits, etc).
Maps (mostly favor survivor, but some configurations favor killer too)
MMR being absolutely terrible. I have over 6k hours and I was recently matched with someone who went down in under a minute on an outside map to a Myers who hadn't yet powered up to stage 2 (was not grabbed off a gen).
Hackers (the asian server is absolutely littered with hackers.)
Maybe I'm missing another big one, but the reasons listed above certainly contribute to any D/C's that may happen.
No one has fun in games that are already all but decided before they begin. I don't D/C unless I meet a definite hacker, but I don't completely blame players who do. The game, even after all these years, is in such a sorry state.
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Even when Wraith was at his strongest he was fine. What isn't fine are the perks mentioned (Eruption being the main culprit). They give wins to killers who perhaps didn't deserve to win the game due to how oppressive they are.
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/358341/is-wraith-to-strong-for-the-current-meta
Wraith?
Wraith?
Ahahaha...no.
Wraith is one of the most painful killers to play against people who know what they are doing. Just prepare to move to safety the second you hear his murmuring, he's basically an M1 killer.
You can also melt him with flashlights.
Wraith is criminally underrated. It is becoming more and more apparent you don't actually understand the game as well as you think you do. And please stop saying Eruption is fine. It is as foolish a thing to say as if you had said old moris and keys were fine.
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297128#Comment_3297128
Imagine how those people would feel playing back in 2017 with omniblink Nurse, insta kill Moris (no hook required) and the old Ruin that required perfect skillchecks to continue with normal repair speed.
It really looks like people ran out of things to complain about.
Wraith being OP... i can´t even...
Sort of like posters pretending mass D/C's have been the game's biggest issue rather than its real problems.
@Beatricks said:
I guess you could make that arguement in low MMR where stealth killers are disproportionately successful , but he is an F-tier trash killer when survivors know what they are doing, so I can't agree in general.
Not even remotely true. Like, at all.
---
I'm rather tired of posters who don't know what they are talking about being confidently incorrect. Like, if you aren't sure then just don't say anything. Why make things up?
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I said it at the time that the reduced movement gained by survivors after being hit was possibly the biggest buff that patch to the already best (OP) killer.
Wonder when devs will come to their senses.
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@DBDVulture said:
We need item reform.
We need a map rework for almost all of the reworks.
We need 90% of the killer roster to be viable.
We either need to nerf SWF or buff killer/solo queue players.
We need fundamentally different pallet formations (or reduced counts on all maps) so that killers without an instant pallet break can compete.
We do NOT need a thread talking about this one time one streamer took 4 people hostage for an hour. It's against the rules to play and not try to win.
You missed one:
"we need posters like this with a clear bias to only one group of players in the game to relax their bias and think of the other people playing this game too."
Like, it's not even that what you said is wrong. Just completely one-sided.
Item reform? Yeah. Agreed. There are also a fair number of killer addons that are super unhealthy for the game. Just item reform, though? Ah, okay.
Map and pallet reform? Definitely!? Oh, looks like you are saying every map is only survivor sided, when many times maps form with absolutely nothing in many areas of the map.
So nice that you tacked on "and solo queue players" at the end though.
Come on. You've been around long enough to know how busted the game is for both sides. Stop with the one-sided bias (and don't pretend you aren't in many threads solely advocating for buffs to killers, all the while denying killers like Nurse are an issue).
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@WesCravenFan said:
"If a killer loses all five gens, he's lost the game."
"It's unfair if a killer defends a 3 gen."
Hmmmm.
But that's not what is being said at all, and you know that.
A playstyle which will obviously be patched out in the future is being used to delay games and is completely against the spirit of the game. I had a game a few days ago, facing this exact strategy. The game lasted 45 minutes. 45 minutes of the killer never commiting to a chase.
And since that YouTube video of the hour long match came out it is going to happen more than it is now.
Can you say that keeps the spirit of the game?
It reminds me of how goalkeepers in soccer used to be able to pick up balls passed back to them with the player's foot. So some teams would just do that and there was nothing the other team could do.
Are you be the type of person who would say that is fine?