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Omans
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Right on schedule
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Queue the 5 or 6 nurse mains coming in and saying absurd things like she is fine how she is, her kill rate is low, or my favorite - 'no one bothers to learn "counterplay" against her' as if that isn't the first thing people having trouble facing nurse would try to do.
Don't expect a reasonable thread with nurse defenders. They don’t care about game balance.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292936#Comment_3292936
I am sorry if the killer player is not being your puppet and your not getting your 3-5 generator chases looping m1 killers.
I will never understand this way of thinking. It has nothing to do with the killer player being a puppet or not. If most people wanted that they would play in a 4-man SWF sweat squad on comms and bring the best stuff and map offerings every game.
The reason this game is popular and still relevant is its chases. Most people want chases that are fun and interactive for both sides. It has nothing to do, at all, with what you said.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292833#Comment_3292833
Uh...that's most of the game, mate. Judgement calls. Educated guesswork. Yes, there will be times when you get it wrong, or get unlucky - but what are you after here? If you could counter a perk 100% of the time reliably, that perk would be useless.
But okay. Let me try to explain.
There are 2 matchups in this game. Solo versus Killer and SWF versus killer.
If the game is balanced around solo, then SWFs can be outright unbeatable. So you need to balance around SWFs.
Also - nope. AFAIR, more than 50% of people play at least in duos. Where are you getting the 'most people played solo' stat from, exactly?
The last time they released survivor stats solo was over 50 percent, duo a fair bit lower than 50, 3 and 4 players in a group quite a bit lower than that. But I guess you play against 4-man SWF every game even though top killers like me don't see them as much as some of the players who only play killer only these forums suggest they do.
Your take on Eruption is so detached from how Eruption is actually affecting games.
There is a 0 percent chance it won't be toned down. It is not if, but when, with these devs. They take a long time to fix things. Posters like you suggesting there isn't an issue at all will look awfully silly when the change goes through. Although, by that point I'm sure you'd have been gifted numerous wins as killer you shouldn't have won just by using Eruption. Cheers.
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This thread is filled with killers relying on Eruption for wins they don’t deserve. Of course they don’t want it to be nerfed.
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It isn't just killers. Both sides have absurdly broken things they can do to make the other side miserable.
I view players who play in a 4-stack with comms, brand new parts and map offerings the exact same as Nurse players with purple range, starstruck, midwitch. They know what they are doing is imbalanced. They know it isn't a fair matchup. I don't think they care.
That being said, the devs bear the brunt of the responsibility. Those things shouldn't provide such an extreme advantage. The devs should be much better at fixing those sorts of things.
It reminds me of the old moris/keys. Both were absurdly broken and took way to long to fix. The devs don't seem to be very good at realizing how miserable one side can make the other side.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/357697/why-pain-res-is-fine-while-eruption-isnt
PR is still a good perk.
Eruption is...a good perk, but I'd hesitate to call it OP.
This game, like it or not, cannot be balanced around both solos and SWFs. And BHVR, since the rework, seem to be aiming balance at the SWF/killer matchup. Which I think is the most fair way to go about it.
That said, running perks like Empathy can allow you to pretty reliably counter it by letting go at the right time.
An 18% pick rate isn't evidence of anything besides 'this is what the meta is right now'. It's not like Dead Hard, which was something like 80% at higher MMRs. 18% means 'this fits into the game well, as it is played now'.
If you nerf Eruption, then it'll be whatever the next thing is at 18%. And then people will complain about it.
That all said, about the only thing I'd change is removing Eruption if the gen hits 0%. That is all.
"empathy can allow you to reliably counter it"
No need to lie.
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Good summary. I don't see any complaints about about Pain Res. It is a strong perk that is used a lot, but doesn't feel unfair.
Eruption on the other hand is single-handedly winning games for killers they wouldn't have otherwise won. That's not even an exaggeration.
Even if you know a gen has been kicked you have a few choices as survivor: don't do the gen (lol..), go to a different gen that doesn't need to be done and may contribute to a 3-gen situation, giving up an enormous amount of time (lol), correctly guess when the survivor being chased will go down (lol), or just continue doing the gen and get hit by eruption, losing not only all/most completed progress on the gen, but potential progress for another 30 seconds as well.
It is absolutely absurd that anyone can defend this perk. They truly aren't paying attention to the game while they are playing it if they think Eruption is okay.
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@Unam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290589#Comment_3290589
In 10 Games i get around 2-3 Hook Sabo plays.
Coordination? Alexis Toolbox gives you a guaranteed sabo even if the killer hits you. no Counterplay possible. What kind of coordination is required here?
Even Flashlight saves have been made so incredibly easy that there is no Coordination required...
OtR: Oh well the perk, that doesnt require any active doing from survivors besides equipping it (which is hard, i get it...) is terminated in endgame? Oh how ######### unfair if it carried you through the fkn game bcs otherwise you wouldnt have reached endgame... Oh and you dont get the speedbuff of BT when OtR is equipped? really? Check your facts! What the heck do you want? Endurance stacking like on PTB? Where survs could have 4-5 Health States? Are you really trying to justify that? Just open up a forum post requesting an AutoWin Button bcs the killer dared to look at you... Thats just a joke rn...
BT-Still gives you distance. For what? A skillcheck. You complain about a perk, that takes effort to consecutively apply on all gens, yet all the perks you mention as "nerfed" still work and require little to no effort and still provide massive value... Double Standard!
Survivors are not "OP". I never said that.
I said, the Game is heavily survivor sided. That is a HUGE difference! The more stuff you write, the more I understand that you dont get this difference, which makes any Balance discussion with you obsolete...
Your thread is crying about a perk that is carrying killers, while the other side has tons of perks carrying. It is about balance. You cannot strip one side of all their possibilities to play efficiently while the other side gets handhold and pampered all the time. Its about balance. But again, following your argumentation, you lack the game knowledge to understand.
I wrote a post about that. Again, you dont read, you dont understand. This is going nowhere...
After reading through your posts, I'm going to have to say its a skill issue.
Eruption is wreaking havoc in a large percentage of games. If you are not feeling its effects you may need to play more and get your MMR a bit higher. At lower MMR a decent killer could win perkless and addonless pretty easily, so Eruption wouldn't seem like much of an issue.
It reminds me a bit of console players saying Nurse is fine. Like, no, she isn't, but they don’t understand why.
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I got matched a few days ago with a survivor who died to a Myers still in first stage on an outdoor map within the first minute of the game. That player was not AFK.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291404#Comment_3291404
I did, and it still says that people consider slugging for 4k to be fine because they want "easy wins"
What..? How in the world does that make sense?
The exact same people saying Eruption is fine in those Eruption threads, hoping it doesn't change because it is carrying them hard and giving them 'free wins' are also in this thread saying slugging for the 4k is not an issue of game health. They don’t care about the other side's point of view. Those exact same posters are also in many threads about Nurse saying she is completely fine. Posters like that need to be called out because they aren't arguing in good faith.
Not sure why you are saying slugging for the 4k has anything to do with 'free wins', but it is weird. Stop please.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291305#Comment_3291305
How in the world is "slugging for 4k" a "free win" lol
Do you not see the contradiction here
Read what I said again.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3275293#Comment_3275293
Agreed to disagree
They can't be reasoned with. Best not to try. The same people saying slugging for the 4k is fine are in the Eruption thread(s) saying that perk is fine. They don’t care about a healthy/balanced game for both sides, they just want free wins.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289048#Comment_3289048
That's dangerously broad, what you're saying. I think it's very obvious that people defend stuff that they use. But if we invalidate their argument just because of that, then what? No balance discussion at all? "Wins they maybe didn't deserve" is pushing it. If anything, that describes the survivors. I don't know if you've seen teams who are efficient on gens, but they can pretty much get owned in chase non-stop yet 3 get out.
And I would absolutely say that there are many survivors who have escaped even though they probably didn't deserve to just because they queued up in a group. I'd rather those extreme advantages be lessened for both sides. I don't want to have to face a strong SWF using the Crow map just as much as I don't want to face Eruption. Both give undeserved advantages and wins.
Obviously there are some things the devs can do to weaken SWF without weakening the already super weak solo queue, like making items and perks not stackable, or even restricting the number of perks a 4-man can use. I hope they do.
The thing is, I don't see any pushback when people say SWF is too strong. It is fact. It should be fixed. But in these eruption threads, and in nurse threads there is a fair amount of pushback which doesn't make much sense. Both sides have broken things. The sooner people accept that and try to alert the devs the better for game health.
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Hag, Trickster, Twins.
Three absolute misses when it comes to killer design. Better off without them on the killer roster since the devs don't seem too interested in reworks.
Legion when he first came out was their biggest miss. What a tragedy of the a character concept.
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@Freddan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289545#Comment_3289545
That was back when i wasnt a working man, now i have a job and i feel like i can play survivor and just chill instead of playing killer, i used to main nurse before her big nerf. They did her dirty...
Obviously a troll thread so I'm not sure why I'm posting. Just curious why you think the consensus top killer in the game, a killer that is still much stronger than almost every other killer even if she doesn't use addons, and a killer who is almost universally seen as needing nerfs got "done dirty"?
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Can't get incapacitated if you never touch a gen!
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@Sycamore said:
I don't use it. I don't see it. It's not killing the game. Is this like a region thing?
Once you finish the tutorial the killers you face will start using perks. You will see it then.
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It is oppressive and requires every survivor in the match to greatly outplay the killer.
It is single-handedly carrying games for killers who rely on it.
I already see posters saying what about strong things on the survivor side. Does anyone say otherwise? We know 4 toolboxes in a match or 4 medkits in a match shouldn't be a thing. We know there are things survivors can do that are too powerful.
Both sides have absolutely busted things they can bring to make the other side miserable and start the match with an unfair disadvantage.
I wish the devs would do something like limit stacking of items/perks to weaken SWF. I wish they would.
But right now the thing affecting the greatest number of players is absolutely Eruption. It needs to be looked at desperately and those who say otherwise aren't interested in game health/balance. Simple as that.
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In this thread: the very killers being talked about trying to defend the OP perk giving them wins they maybe didn't deserve.
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It is sad when posters like this let their bias cloud their view on balance.
Too much wrong with what you said, so I'll just say - anyone who actually thinks Eruption is fine in its current state has no idea what a healthy/balanced game looks like.
I say this as a killer who always runs 1 to 2 antigen perks, please play the game a bit more on both sides before you post again.
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@Sycamore said:
Sounds like a good idea to me. Killers are in desperate need of buffs.
That's a joke, right?
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I wouldn't be surprised if they don’t change it. After spending thousands of bloodwebs it is incredibly tedious, but I think the devs enjoy having a long grind. I think the prestige changes they did a few months ago proved that. Those changes didn't help the grind nearly as much as they suggested.
Either that or they think it gives the player something to do if there are long queue times.
Many players play one role and level up another, though, which is something you can't do with this system.
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I think a lot of the people responding to you are completely missing the point (par for the course for a lot of posters on this forum).
There is no expression of skill in playing every match the same way - get the first down, tunnel/camp the first hook, suddenly start alternating hooks after the first survivor dies and you have an extreme advantage. Yet that happens so often.
I don't know why there is so much pushback to what you said. It is a simple fact. Players who play that way aren't as good as they think they are because it is a 'tactic' (according to some posters in this thread) that requires very little skill, yet is greatly rewarded.
Many players would rather killers who are the 'type a' be greatly buffed and 'type b' be greatly nerfed.
Never should I, as a 'type a' killer, have to think 'I should have stood next to the hook and secured the next hook state'. Yet more often than not that is the most optimal way to play.
Sad thing is the type B killers in this thread will see this post and think I am suggesting a nerf to killers. Nah, I'd like to see skilless 'strategies' nerfed and the actual mode of skill expression in this game (quickly winning chases) buffed.
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Feels bad for the devs that there are so many players who aren't interested in a balanced game for both sides. The first page of posts in this thread are...grim.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277707#Comment_3277707
Yeah weaker players shouldn't be the stronger players... that's kinda how any games goes. If bad players can beat better players that makes no sense.
And you dont need to be swf to be a good survivor and make most killers obsolete, the difference between the 2 is you have to pick nurse or maybe blight if you want to compete at a high level while survivor you can compete at base you just have to actually learn high level play.
If you cant see or understand how survivors can become insanely strong too it's clear you arent close to that level (which is okay, not everyone is as competitive) but you cant moan about the strongest killer in the game being played well beating players as you said "weak players"
If you looking at high level nurses you have to look at high level survivors, and if we arent looking at high level nurses then theres definitely no need to moan as nurse is only so strong in the hands of a good player.
This argument doesn't take into account reality.
As a top killer the number of times I have faced the absolute top tournament level players on voice chat is incredibly small compared to the number of killer games I have played. That's not to say a 4-man SWF isn't OP. They are. Absolutely. And the devs should do some things to restrict players who play in large groups like not allowing stackable items (no 4 toolboxes or 4 medkits in a game), not allow stackable perks, bonus bloodpoints for killers who had to face the SWF, etc.
As a top killer though, I must say, unless you are facing those top Discord-using SWF's then you absolutely can use most killers and compete.
Nurse is another beast entirely. You only need to get good with her and then you will win the vast majority of games with her just for playing her.
I am not saying SWF at the top doesn't need to be toned down. They absolutely do. But it is so insincere to say that Nurse is fine how she is. Even in tournaments Nurse is restricted more than any other character (even more than survivors) and she is still the best killer after those restrictions. It is absurd people still think she is okay.
Finally: as a top killer and top survivor, the number of absolute top level tournament SWF that made me feel like even a 2k wasn't possible is so vanishingly small in the killer games I've played. They are so, so rare.
The number of games as survivor in which the killer used nurse and just won is multiple magnitudes higher.
The devs need to look at things in the game that allow lesser skilled players to beat players better than them. Swf of course is one, Nurse is another. Eruption, absolutely.
Once you reach a certain skill level as nurse you have an extreme advantage.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279794#Comment_3279794
If you are talking about this : https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350586/stats-kill-rate-by-killer-and-mmr-september-2022#latest
Top MMR
- Nurse : 6,12% pickrate - 61,22% killrate
- The Mastermind : 25% pickrate - 65,82% killrate
"No counting Wesker", yep I wonder why. She is not a problem. For reference, her killrate is close to Dredge, Cenobite, Spirit, Oni, Wraith. Yes, I said Wraith. She is not a problem.
So short-sighted.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278068#Comment_3278068
you do realise that the grab can be baited?
Lol..
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@RainehDaze said:
I have basically never grabbed someone going for an unhook unless they were being 100% potato about it. Like, grabs of people exiting lockers? Slightly more common (ignoring open-locker-find-survivor grabs).
The only reasonably normal grab in the game is running into someone who doesn't pay attention, has oblivious from plaything, and tries to do the totem in your face. Anyone else just cancels their animation, whatever it is, and only gets a hit. Grabbing people as a Killer is super hard.
Also? It's meant to work from safety because it's there to discourage recklessly doing actions in the Killer's face and then speedboosting off.
It is actually super easy to grab as killer.
What the people defending hook grabs on healthy don't seem to understand is that a large percentage of killer players try to force the next stage on a hooked survivor. It is a skilless 'strategy', but it works.
'just do gens'... Um, how about lets make it fun for both sides without skilless things like healthy hook grabs.
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Healthy grabs on survivors trying to unhook is a terrible mechanic. People who think it is fine don't understand what a healthy game would look like.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276976#Comment_3276976
So... you are saying that Undying Ruin was doing absolutely nothing while 1 survivor was being tunneled out and the others could do gens freely?
I'll give you some more time to think about that.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276945#Comment_3276945
Which... has the side effect of the killer not camping/tunneling a survivor.
Don´t know about you, but thats something good in my book.
Except that's not what happened at all. While one survivor was being tunneled out of the game the other survivors had to choose between doing gens but still having Ruin/Undying up, or finding up to five totems and then having nowhere near enough gens done by the time that first survivor died.
Ruin/Undying at its worst was easily as bad as current Eruption.
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It will be months before they fix it. They are so slow at fixing huge balance issues like this.
It took them so long to fix Ruin Undying when it could take 5 cleanses to get rid of ruin.
They are probably busy discovering why Knight is so lackluster to play as even though they have been testing him for months now...
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@Sycamore said:
There is so much in the game that penalizes the Killer for actually "tunneling" and "camping" that they are weak strategies for the most part. If you play survivor well and know what you are doing you will succeed most of the time. It's down to the survivor if they are good or not at the game enough to survive, even when the Killer performs their job perfectly.
I am also sure that regardless how a Killer finds ways to win games the other side is going to complain that it was unfair and too easy for them, and just give it a different name.
Being so confidently incorrect is actually impressive.
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While nurse being OP is definitely a problem, in my opinion the bigger issue is how these people defending nurse on the forums are not just laughed off the forums for saying something as ridiculous as nurse is fine.
Nurse is OP is common knowledge, just like keys/moris were OP, lampkin lane was a busted map, Legion when he first came out was terribly designed. Saying Nurse is not an issue is like saying the Earth is flat.
Even if the devs do nothing about it because they want to satisfy players who want to role play as a "dominating killer", at least if the posters who defend nurse would stop pretending, that would be much better. Like, SWF is super OP and no one denies it. I don't understand why Nurse players can't do the same thing.
I think it is because SWF is a group. It is much easier to blame the teamwork SWF allows as being OP, rather than it is to suggest nurse players aren't as good as they think they are. If they don’t 4k as much as players on the forums suggest they should with Nurse, then they might have to admit they aren't as good as they think they are. Ego issue/skill issue, perhaps.
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Yeah, pretty much correct.
The sad thing is how much potential this game has.
So many games as survivor you face a killer who is only interested in making the game a 1v1 until he can take that first survivor, and then suddenly the killer is all too happy to spread hooks when he is in an extremely advantageous position. It is so boring. It also ruins MMR. No one is where they should be. There are SO MANY players who get carried by their SWF who have no idea how to loop, take aggro, make a good play. And there are SO MANY killers boosted by first hook tunneling the first survivor to death and then relying on busted perks like Eruption to win against survivors they shouldn't be beating.
For years moris and keys were super OP. And using them gave such a ridiculous advantage to the side that used them. It taking the devs years to fix those thing should tell you all you need to know about the balance team.
Final thought: when I as killer am skillfully spreading out hooks and quickly winning chases, it should not be true that rather than what I am doing the more optimal play is standing next to the hook and denying the unhook, then promptly chasing the unhooked person.
So often when I am going for the 12 hook win I know that had I just camped a hook stage I would have won with the 4k. It is so skilless, yet it is the best strategy.
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Good killers never worry about how many flashlights there are in a game. There could be 4 in a game every single game and I wouldn't care as a killer with lots of hours in the role. But 4 medkits or 4 toolboxes? Nah.. Those are the real actual good items survivors can bring.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271348#Comment_3271348
what mistake is the killer making when using eruption? Downing survivors? Kicking generators? Furthermore, how is the killer less skilled then their opponent when his opponent is losing chases? The killer perks are suppose to be carrying the killer to victory when their opponent is not successful at the chases.
The benefit far, far, far outweighs the effort put in. It is troubling that so many people don't understand this.
It would be like if Decisive Strike was given a 30 second stun, and also no deactivation timer.
Right now Eruption is absolutely hard-carrying killers who use it (especially when paired with call of Brine, which gives the survivors such a lose-lose choice in how to play if the killer closely guards 3 gens).
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It is clear that some players do not want a balanced game. They just want their favorite role to be more powerful than the other side. Anyone who has played more than a few matches can easily see how OP Eruption is.
Same with old keys, old moris, old Spirit, SWF, Nurse, the list goes on and on.
If you are sincerely defending the current state of Eruption you are not interested in the game becoming more balanced. It is as simple as that.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270189#Comment_3270189
You said your complaint was that it affects solo q and SWF differently, and I made a suggestion that fixes that. If you only want suggestions that involve the perk getting nerfed, it means you are just using solo q as an excuse, and you really don’t care if it affects SWFs equally.
Doesn't matter how many times you suggest it, it will always be a very bad idea.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269973#Comment_3269973
When it comes to broken stuff, it takes one to know one, and so no, I haven't once felt that when I was playing killer, "Hmm, this thing I'm using is definitely broken." It hasn't happened yet. And it won't, Y'all have seen to that.
Really? I've felt that plenty of times through the years. So much so, that I deliberately don't/didn't use the following: ruin/undying at its peak, huntress when her iri was so much stronger, mori when it was ez win just for using it, Spirit when she was busted, many of Blight's addons, Nurse (then, now, and until the devs decide they want a game that starts to show some semblance of balance), current eruption, Legion when he was absolutely busted - i still remember how many streamers on the server I play on (Korean server) shamelessly exploited Legion before he was fixed.
Those are just off the top of my head.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270041#Comment_3270041
Like I said, if you ended up on all the same maps you ended up on, but without knowing offerings were played, you wouldn't care.
I'm not sure how you think you're disagreeing with me.
Read his first sentence again. That is the issue.
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So often used by survivors or killers who stack the best stuff for that map and have an extreme advantage before the game even begins.
Crow map from survivors? Midwitch from nurse? Indoor map against call of Brine/eruption/sloppy wraith? So, so boring.
Get rid of map offerings or make them ban the map you use them for.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269111#Comment_3269111
What does it do vs 5-minute gen teams?
So strange that so many killer-only players on this forum think they should be able to hang with the best survivor teams. So, so strange.
Everyone can admit things on the survivor side (like swf stacking things like that) is broken. I don't understand why so many killer players can't accept that yes, the killer side too has absurdly broken things.
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If you play both sides you will quickly see how broken it is. It is even more of an urgent issue than Nurse right now.
More than that, though, is there are some people on the forum saying it should be buffed to effect SWF too by adding an AOE or something. It is truly baffling how out of touch and how little some people understand balance.
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Too many things that both sides can do to sincerely say this game is even close to balanced.
Better balance than years ago. Still pretty bad.
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Nurse is the killer that allows players to role-play the role of a dominating, too-strong killer.
In a game that strives for balance that kind of character doesn't exist. Sadly, the devs seem to enjoy that kind of character being in the game.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267385#Comment_3267385
I think that there is a definite level of double standards in play. As an example, I've never seen any of the more virulent Nerf Nurse posters ever post in any of the threads suggesting that SWF is OP. They may say they think that but actions do speak louder than words and I don't see any calls to balance survivors around Hens coming from the same people who say Nerf Nurse around the theoretical god level Nurses.
Some people also can be stuck in their opinions and that's why they're so deaf set against open discussions. As an example, in my original post in this thread I stated that I think the Nurse complaints stem from more than just the 'I think this might be too strong' or the 'I just want an advantage for my side' which are the most common reasons for Nerf threads. I was accused of telling people what to think, being condescending, being unskilled, etc but I never said people shouldn't think that Nurse is too powerful; I said these are other factors that might be affecting people's perception of Nurse and that they had an opinion but opinions are not necessarily facts.
My position on all of these threads has been:
(a) I think Nurse is fine and I enjoy versing her. This is an opinion. It may or may not be shared by specific individuals and it may or may not be right
(b) The data to determine if Nurse is fine or not is not held by any member of the community and only BHVR has it. The only limited data we have suggests there is not an issue but it is not a full picture. The people saying to nerf Nurse have no reliable data to support their view because anything they present (eg selective tournaments) are too small of a sample size and the subset of players is too restricted. Any conjecture on whether or not Nurse is OP or not is a matter of opinion
(c) If a game relies on participation to be healthy the game should be balanced around all skill levels so as to maximize enjoyment. While small subsets such as tournament players and total beginners should be considered since they should have fun as well they are not the sole groups to be considered.
As a corollary of that, if people want to balance Nurse around SupaAlf as an example then they should also be calling for survivors to be balanced around Hens and Team Oracle. Anything else is a double standard.
I would say a lot of these calls to nerf Nurse fall under the 'I want an advantage for my side' if it weren't for Nurse being so distinct. As an example, if a Nurse is charged up on a second floor building I rush the Nurse and I steadfastly avoid pallet throwing and window vaulting as much as possible unless the Nurse is in fatigue. That's the opposite of nearly all other Killers; I'm never going to rush an Oni second floor or not and throwing pallets and window vaults normally helps me in chase instead of hurting me. That's why I posted those reasons there because I think Nurse's mechanics affect the discussion around her.
How many times must things be explained to you before you stop repeating things that are not true...? Calling for changes to nurse is the same as calling for changes to swf or map balance.
The thing is, the latter two don't have fierce opposition. While all three are obvious changes that need to happen for the health of the game, only Nurse has a few posters fiercely defending her despite how her being OP is obvious.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267058#Comment_3267058
No, I'm just pointing out your statement that 'no skilled player thinks Nurse is fine' is demonstrably false using someone who is well-known to be very skilled at the game.
You have an opinion that Nurse is too powerful; there's no issue with that. However, you may be wrong and other people's opinions may be correct or you might be right. It's just a video game anyway; nothing to get worked up about.
Except in that video he doesn't say she is fine...?
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267051#Comment_3267051
Your second paragraph makes your first paragraph where you used condescending an extremely ironic statement. I'm not speaking about any person in specific but rather on general. If Otz is saying that Nurse in her current form isn't that bad that can also serve as an indicator that perhaps old perceptions are still coloring people's impressions.
He also said Plague was one of the best killers not too long ago which has never been true.
I guess appealing to authority is fine when it is your opinion, though.