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Top-tier perk, as it applies debuff (mainly a issue to track survivors in the dying state) and also a constantly radar/track tool, with practically no downside (you can conveniently open a locker without even leaving the path of your objective) and as all killers are different, high mobility which are already top -tier has even more advantage.
Needs a CD adjustment for something around 1 minute or remove blindness/work statically around the locker and not the killer position
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I ended up logging in here just to find your sugestion. I'm just going to paste what I already told you on Steam
As for the idea itself, I don't think it will solve SoloQ's problem, which is precisely around high mobility killers and the lack of coordination and synergy, making slugging more rewarding than hooking, to the point of making this "strat" a design flaw, in addition to creating some exploit problems, such as killers avoiding the obsession or tunneling the game's obsession or around specific perk builds that constantly rotate the obsession in chases and in the end rendering the auto pick-up system useless
Anyway, given the brief explanation, my idea would be to avoid this in the macro game by giving everyone the possibility to get up without being abusive like it was in the finisher mori ptb, increasing the time to recover, but at the same time only allowing the person to pick up. if there is at least one other in the dying state (2+ or more) and the killer is not close (x meters radius) to avoid the same abuses around pallets as happened, similar to what people do with power struggle buying time in swf, anyway, it will be a necessary evil to avoid non-interactive matches and abuses that killers do against soloQ.
the idea came from exactly how people complained about this system in the finisher mori ptb , as it punished the killer that legitimately tried to counter wiggle builds or flashlight/sabo teams around pallets, as it forces you to have to slug one to chase the other, but not allowing the focus to be on the strat to play focusing on speed-run and slug all 4, if the killer moves away from the area where the first person was slugged.
I left the radius being x, but perhaps the ideal would be something between 12 and 16 meters from the killer.
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UP
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@[Deleted User] said:
Says it in the patch notes that were just released.
General Healing
- Decrease the bonus on successful Healing Great Skill Checks from 5% to 3%.
Mine wasn't like that, it must be the some miss information in the translation into my language, thank you, an indirect nerf then, pity.
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The live patch notes came but it didn't clarify that, so I'm still in doubt
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some older maps have an abundance of unnecessary breakable walls, even around outdated loops.
I don't think it's necessary to add more one-sided interactions (only on the killer's part), which is a waste of time (some breakable doors are even traps in some maps), unless they put perks to rebuild broken locations, etc.
Is more easy devs replace strong windows (which are few nowadays), with pallets, like the one in the garden of joy kitchen. Most of those windows that have been strong in the past are either closed or positioned near breakable doors to turn around
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400475#Comment_3400475
Believe me I am not. I for example think that nurse shiuld be severely nerfed again - and she should not stay as indisputed best killer in this game, because it was always this way...
Sadako is not pure M1 killer either (she is, but not in a sense that she has no power in loops). Her invisibility can force you to guess where she is making her a good chunk stronger then plague without power. Same can be said about just anyone, but legion (but he has cheap injures too).
Also IMO strength of NOED is more in those 5% speed, then in instadown. The reason is, that those 5% are enough to make killers outright win all the 50/50 loops (majority of them). So giving killer instadown vs giving killer NOED are 2 very different things in my eyes...
Anyway, this is just my experience with the game - and for these reasons I don't see plague being overpowered (or weak for that matter). Feel free to disagree. You have full right to do that :)
sure, we can agree to disagree about anything, but just a small addendum still in the prior context, yes noed has the 5% speed boost, which makes several loops unsafes, but on top of that, the ping itself, hitbox and dedicated server already supply this lack of 5% speed , which makes it even more obvious why there are 2 core health states (even to benevolent emblem), on top of everything I've said about soloQ and positioning around loops and lack of comms about killer positioning to safe unhooks, break 3-gens, etc.
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the idea is good on paper, but I think it's worth not having hook skins, since they might want to change the game's sacrifice system in the future and won't be able to due to these paid skins, like replace for a respawn system. The charms at least can be hung on the map or on the killer's waist.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399899#Comment_3399899
I agree with PIPs.
Don't agree with single health state - the thing is, if you don't cleanse, her only power is basically "you are injured whole match". So the game has 2 equal things broken - killer has no power being true and pure M1 killer only, but you have just 1 health state instead of 2 (with exception to her 1 fountain or 2-3 with addons). IDK, but that sounds fair to me. Like don't get me wrong - she is very strong. But it's not like you autoloose against her without any possible counter.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399663#Comment_3399663
That's what I said. In my screen, I see that I jumped the window and went way far away from it. But even if this is the case, killer is still able to hit/down me which is pure and utmost bullshit... There's no going around this - there will always be someone that gets screwed over by bad ping.
The only fair thing that can be done is to actually split it between both sides - so each side gets screwed over a little, but none of the sides gets screwed over a lot (also if 1 side gets screwed over a lot and the other side just benefits - you get the problem of people intentionally VPN-ing into distant servers just to have bad ping=easy games)
You end up promoting a taboo-centric fallacy that systems can't be messed with because they've always been the form x y z. So, Just because plague is an m1 killer doesn't mean that she's intrinsically weak and this already works as a form of counterplay. By the game's stats, m1 killers have high kill-rates, like sadako. So, saying that the killer is m1 bc of that, is weak and using that as a basic justification, it's the same as nothing.
And her power in its basic form already does a lot that goes beyond being a mere m1 killer, so, it does not bring any disadvantage to her, on the contrary, it brings advantages of leaving everyone broken without having to aim or be physically present near the survivor, in addition to serving as a track on survivors and infecting scenery and generators, and if you using the pools as survivor, you give >>MORE ADVANTAGE<< to her, plus the ease of stacking with slowdown gen perks like thana which remains strong on her aroun 3-gen.
So, in short, all m1 killers work around loops just like plague, and not giving access to her AOE is not COUNTER, because you already find yourself at a disadvantage just by her basic power as survivor, it's like giving NOED to all m1 as a pig or trap and some way to track survivors and if they cleanse the totem, you can turn these killers into ranged ones.
Anyway, broken is not enough to describe it.
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@Gandor said:
Plague is in a good spot. No changes needed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399570#Comment_3399570
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399426#Comment_3399426
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399384#Comment_3399384
No. She is fine the way she is. It's good one of the abilities actually behaves as if it has server validation. This way inevitable "benefits" of bad ping are evenly split between killer and survivor (usually as survivor you can get hit 3 steps away from window, because vpn + worse reaction time for survivor). With plague u don't get unfair hit, but still get unfair reaction time to make up for it.
She can even be in a "good" spot between swf that has in-game communication to share her location.
But among Solo Survivors, an average plague can easily dominate the match with little effort using 3-gen strat, and there is no way to avoid being infected, since the addon combo leaves the generators infected for more than 1 minute.
Anyway, it forces everyone into a lose-lose situation, and in the best of analogies it's like playing with noed the whole game without being able to cleanse the totem, because if it's going to be worse, what eventually in soloQ do you have to do to save a hooked person with everyone infected.
2 core healthy state is fundamental in the game, specially in SoloQ, given nobody have radar on the killer to play safe and share among others basic things like correct positioning in chases, build used by the killer, etc.
it's no wonder she's in the top 5% MMR with the highest kill-rate, given that most lobbys are Solo survivors.
And I almost forgot, if by chance you dominate the match and manage to win in SoloQ against the plague, you can forget about pip (at least in silver rank and up), since your emblem in the benevolent category is practically zero.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398616#Comment_3398616
A bunch of perks were nerfed in 6.1 not because they were strong or issue, but because their pick-rate was too high.
False, there were many many posts about Spine Chill. I even made some myself. The Pickrate is just an expression of its strength not the cause of it being nerfed. Is this a new thing now, that people deny a perk being strong and therefore accuse bHVR of only nerfing because of pickrate? This Community is EPIC man.
it's not because you and half a dozen made some kind of post here on the official forum that this reflected the majority opinion, and it even seems that we're talking about statistical data for you to start refuting things as "true" or "false"
Things don't revolve around what half a dozen people think here on this forum, an example of this was self-care that people here already thought it as a meme perk and yet it was nerfed just because it was very picked used before 6.1 by most SoloQ lobbys.
And why are we talking about the old spine chill? well...
@pigslittlepet said:
There's nothing wrong with a strong perk as long as it's not overpowered. Bhvr needs to stop nerfing strong perks and only nerf overpowered perks. Old spine chill was strong but not op. Alot of perks that got reworked didn't need it. I'm happy with spine chill in its current form though there was nothing wrong with it in its old for. Changing the vault speed because it didn't fit the theme of the perk was complete bull. Does a bunny suit fit legions theme? Does a Santa outfit for clown? Themes are pointless and shouldn't effect a perks usefulness.
I have nothing against the current Spine Chill, but the perk will be >>OUTDATED<< in the next update, because the heart system will already reflect how the perk works around TR/Lullaby, so, the >>secondary<< effect of Spine Chill will be the only reason why someone would choose to equip the perk, dropping the pick rate a lot, more reasons to be reworked or even buffed, and yes, agree, old spine chill wasn't broken, just consistent and strong
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@Emeal said:
That power was why Spine Chill was nerfed in the first place.
bHVR offered to leave the TR indication on the Perk until visual TR could be developed
Spine Chill is already really strong, being able to know when someone looks at you is strong, but also it helps finish gens infront of Killer.
A bunch of perks were nerfed in 6.1 not because they were strong or issue, but because their pick-rate was too high. And the secondary effect/"look bonus" part already occurs currently, I just repeated how the perk works.
The perk in my proposal has nothing to do with the killer looking in the direction, it's more like the killers whispers perk, only instead of working by TR (like the heart system, nothing to do with looking in direction), it will work by proximity, the Whisper will become more audible or less audible depending on how close the killer is.
yes, precisely because bhvr said that it's time to rework the perk to not be redundant, and still offer some utility without changing the concept of the perk
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they should put another hit-stun-grab validation system in the game (if the game currently have one?), because there is no way to trust the dedicated server 100% (the situation is worse than in the p2p era without some ping indicator on lobby) there has to be a comparison between the survivor and killer ping and whatever have lower in relation to the server is validated, that is, what happened on the screen of the person with the lowest ping among both
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I like her chase music, it's the coolest thing in the whole chapter, it sounds like horror pop, very different from the washing machine that was the ghost face in the rework in all TR sounds (specially chase one).
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already had other suggestions around here about the perk.
It was supposed to be an anti sabotage perk, and as such, it should make the sabotage action on the killer's TR longer or completely counter the sabotage action on the hook closest to the killer, which will have its aura marked in yellow (countering boil over toguether)
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@Princesse_nico said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397423#Comment_3397423
Why is that ? I am saying shes bad, she never kills people with traps. Ive almost never died to head trap. I wish the traps were stronger so we could have more fun searching the key before the timer ends
it's official forums, don't expect an interactive or rewarding conversation from the majority of people here, most will just distill us vs them against you and make biased "arguments" (is more to distort conversations, change subjects and use fallacies), with the "like" at the bottom working as a disqualifying tool
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396923#Comment_3396923
There is no way you can justify that BNP+Hyperfocus is good for the game.
Having a way to make a 90 second generator take 40-45 seconds breaks the game balance.
The only way this would be "ok" is if killer could make you die in half as much time on the hook with the right perk+addon. Just imagine how mad survivors would be if that was part of the game.
If killer doesn't get to kill you 50% faster then you don't get to do generators 50% faster.
but I didn't justify anything, I just said that the problem is the bnp, which must be removed at best scenario.
And I gave the arguments for not messing with the perks, specially hyperfocus.
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I don't think the problem is in the perks, but in the BNP itself. Hyperfocus, in addition to requiring skill, still shares the same base bonus between repair and heal speed, and a nerf on the perk, would harm both, the most I see is removing the possibility of synergy in builds (removing bnp you already cut synergy with hyperfocus and removing the Stakeout bonus itself), and prove thyself wouldn't be so overused if most of the gens in the match were Solo gens, at least 5 out of 7, forcing swfs to make at least 3 solo generators and time-sharing the matches between SWFs and SoloQ
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@Tsunderechan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394283#Comment_3394283
That really shouldnt be a excuse anymore with the new UI. If you dont hear the terror radius and if you see the chase tentacle wiggling around anybody thats not you, its time to hug the nearest gen. Also you know where all the completed gens are and the progress of any gens survivors are working on which means you get a better idea of where the killer is the more the game progresses. Decent survivors know this which is why the best counter to Legion/Plague is to remain injured. Being injured is like healthy state but with more noise as long as the killer cant actually down you.
ui often doesn't mean anything (this system didn't work miracles even when eruption was broken around SoloQ.), killer can be using stealth perks or still can be in a war of attrition around 3-gen eating resources around, you won't leave of the gen by simply because you're listening to killer's TR and often due to the location of the gen, you can't 100% relying on the UI bc it's saying someone is being chased when easily the killer can turn around and change focus with UI still points chase with another person.
2 health state is a core game design in game for SoloQ to a lot of things, and shouldn't be so easy to bypass it without even having to aim or be present at the location of the survivor or some delay timer (at least against legion you can heal, SM have delay to proc expose, same for GH, Wesker, Sadako, etc) but plague is perma in the whole game and work to track things too, and add to the recipe trying things like save in hook with everyone infected, that in SoloQ you are practically obliged to give free power to her , and even if you play perfect against a decent plague medium~high MMR in 3-gen war after 30 minutes, the points you earn on the benevolent emblem nullifies almost any pip chance just because it prevents everyone from healing. It's like play against a uncleansed NOED totem in the whole game without comms to anything.
It's no wonder to be one of the killers with a high kill-rate since most lobbys are SoloQ
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396033#Comment_3396033
-"and the few pallets it has, most are unsafe"
Do you know what an unsafe pallet is? It has a long side and a short side. The "car" loop going anticlockwise around the main building of Badham is an unsafe loop. It also happens to be a fair one.
Most of the loops on WY are safe loops with Jungle Gyms. You can sand over a pallet and the killer can't hit you.
If you want to make the arguement that Nurse and Blight should never play this map then I might agree. But this map is actually pretty fair to a killer like : Pig and all the old M1 killer cast.
WY have a lot of tiles outdated, I'm not talking about the classic 4 walls that now can't even be repeated in atuohaven maps I'm talking about the structure of labs/tiles in which the pallet is easily circumvented by either side (don't have long wall in one side, it's open, i think its called lame walls), which no longer makes sense with anti loop and fast blood lust killers, plus of course high tier killers, specially in a tiny open map
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395920#Comment_3395920
-"Pretty sure small maps with 8 pallets like Wreckers' Yard are not balanced at all and very killer sided"
Wreckers Yard is pretty much the definition of a fair map.
You have plenty of space to run loops.
You have the Shack as the "main building" which has always been a strong tile.
You have plenty of vaults located around the map to delay the use of pallets.
Almost every pallet in the map causes the event: "break this or the chase is over."
Most people don't want "fair" they want it to favor their side. Hawkins was an incredibly fair map overall but most people won't be able to tell you why : it had many pallets that gave the killer the chance for a mindgame.
The problem with a map like "the game" is that it has 25 pallets that usually end the chase if the killer doesn't break the pallet.
Otz did a challenge where he was not allowed to break any pallets on that map. But what if he tried the same challenge and people realized mid game he wasn't allowed to break any pallets? The path to the basement would become a "free" zone where the killer could not go.
sure, unsafe pallets can be used to balance large maps too if you don't want to do a pretty good and safe tiles distribution correctly with pallets, which would solve the problem of gideon (as a kind of compensation for having more usable tiles)
But Wreckers Yard is far from being the definition of a perfect map, it's exactly the opposite of gideon, you have a tiny map in which the central build will also always be the basement and the few pallets it has, most are unsafe, including the horrible tiles (that do not compensate), devs even remade some of the bad ones that were on autohaven maps, like the u tiles. I would only find this map balanced, as I said, if there were more pallets at least usable tiles, or open the shack windows again, since it functions as an main building too, allowing a loop that can be both time consuming and super risky with the basement there, accessible to killer (more or less the same as with hadonfield main building)
Well, at least the clone of the Wreckers yard cornfield version has the tractors and the tiles connected in small area, and it still has the plantation that doesn't allow a good view of the map
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395864#Comment_3395864
If you use addons that change the number of traps, it adjusts the number of searches accordingly.
By default it's 12 searches across 4 traps, or an average of 3 searches per trap. So with 5 traps, this becomes 15 searches, 6 traps, 18 searches. With Amanda's Letter (which takes 2 traps away), then there's only 6 searches total.
Source: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/325314/regarding-the-pigs-five-box-update/p1
yeah, I had read that at the time, I just hadn't realized about the addons, my mistake, and thinking here wouldn't make sense 12 attempts when you use the addon that leaves you with only 2 rbt.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395183#Comment_3395183
But those simply weren't designed to be uncounterable and the devs later found them to be too unfair and oversighted some things
Killer Instinct was created with distortion (hiding aura reading) in mind as another way for killers to track survivors
But that's exactly it, there is no taboo on any aspect of the game that cannot be tweaked or linked to some perk
@Crowman said:
If the devs only buffed and never nerfed, then killers would have all their stuff on the same power level of OG Moris (can straight up kill a survivor in dying state without needing to hook them once). And I don't think survivors would find that fun.
you are just going by the literality of what was said, when it was pointed out that what is most used does not always mean broken, so, of course there are absurd things that needed/need to be nerfed, which does not delegitimize buffing weak perks as a correct way to shake up the game meta perks, to make at least some weak perks enter in the pool of medium-picked perks.
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@DBDVulture said:
You're talking about Rancid Abattoir. First let me say : maps where multiple three gens are possible are potentially fair maps.
Maps with only one viable 3 gen location are not fair maps. Let's talk about Dead Dog saloon. That's a fair map right? No it isn't. Why not? Because everybody knows there is always a three gen on one side and as soon as the killer loses that they are going to lose the game. Azarov's is another clearly broken map because you lose the second the three gen is broken on both sides of the map. In one sense nothing really changed when they redesigned the map.
What makes a map fair?
- They need to be small - around 9000m²
- They need to not have tons of interlinked tiles (this is what disqualifies Coal Tower from being fair)
- They need to have a fair number of pallets (which disqualifies "the game"). As a point of reference Abattoir has about 9 pallets overall. That's a very fair number considering every one is basically : break this or the chase is over.
- The main building needs to not be completely busted (Garden of Joy and Badham are perfect examples of what is broken)
- There needs to be multiple generators that are "close enough" where the killer can legitimately patrol them. Most of the maps fail in this aspect but it is also a direct result of map size.
Could you imagine for example a map that was 11,000m² but all the generators were in a small concentrated area? The killer would never leave the "gen zone". That's a perfect example of what would be broken in favor of the killer. RPD on the other hand is a pretty good example of what is broken favoring the survivors.
well, that's your idea of what you think is balanced. Pretty sure small maps with 8 pallets like Wreckers' Yard are not balanced at all and very killer sided (which will change a bit with the addition of more pallets in 6.7), and still have the accessible basement in the middle of the map practically serving the killer any time.
Small maps should have exactly more connected tiles and pallets to suppress the killer's ability to easily supervise generators, even more so when dealing with high mobility killers, while large maps should have fewer pallets and fewer connected tiles (and you can merge windows with pallets to try to balance the small amount of each other, exactly where gideon went wrong).
This story that all maps must be small or open completely takes away the game design creativity from the game, forgetting that there are killers who manage to benefit from specific scenarios (open, indoor, medium or small)
And I also totally disagree about generators.
If you do the math and somehow manage to standardize the average gen repair time between Soloq and SWF, then you have more opportunity for chasers to occur naturally over a longer period of time.
Keeping that in mind, since the game mixes SoloQ and SWF, the best fix I see is to make 5 of the current 7 gens >SOLO GENS<< (50%+, precisely 70%), which would force 3 SOLO gens to be repaired by survivors, and separates the gens correctly on the map more (specially the solo ones from each other), in addition to rework bnps (or remove)
So you create more space for the killer to invest in what is the intended game-design, the >>chases<< that will be much more worthwhile from the middle to the end of the game, even more so because the initial focus of the survivors will be to try to repair soon these 3 gens, which will take some time, and if they are left for the end, it will be easier for the killer to capitalize on the flaw
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I already answered you there on steam, so I'll just repeat
yes, you will have the 12 attempts globally distributed by the amount of rbt's you have with the addons that allow you to load more than 4, so it's not really worth it because more traps will be removed in 1 try
I miss the old pig with the 4 boxes and a certain one (and not these 5 boxes grouped together), I felt that the 4 searches were more common than now, nerfed in >>Basekit<< because of game design abusers with the video tape addon ("strat" afk pig) and could be fatal (than mere delay tools like actually with only 4 traps)
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yeah, I think just waiting for the patch notes really, too bad a dev didn't come to answer, but thanks anyway, hope they reverse it
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I don't think it's healthy for the game for a perk to have more than 1 condition to only active (with a situational effect) , even more so when it comes to an exhaustion perk
I see that at best people may start using DH with another exhaustion perk, but save DH exactly for the EGC using it as a kind of Mini Off the Record, but still very risky and not worth spending the slot.
I think that at this point it's more worth reworking DH, but keeping the perk concept, and as I won't repeat myself, here's my proposal:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/306524/just-one-idea-about-the-dead-hard-rework
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The self-care value was tweaked in 6.1 to give the meta a shake-up at the time, as it was one of the most used perks (probably in SoloQ to cover the lack of coordination) even when it was agreed that the perk was meme set to 50%. So, to decrease the usage, the new value was decreased to 35% and increased botany efficiency for people use 2 perks together which before was equal to one bad
I don't mind nerfing botany to reverse the 6.1 buff to it, but self-care should never have gone beyond the minimum of >>45% which took 35s for a full heal (taking into account the 16 ticks for a full heal). At 35% it takes 45s, almost twice the base value of self-heal with med-kit, and I don't think the perk needs a token system just to go back to what it was before the nerf, which WAS BAD, not to mention that this value can even double with effects like mangled and hemorrhagic
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An easier way to fix all these problems around tunnel, camp and slugg would be remove the hooks and replace it with a respawn system, instead of just band-aiding/especific changes to the current hook system with more perks or killer powers around bad game-design (obviously you will need to review how the perks that works around hooks and dying state will work in the new system, and give some compensation to the killer in the EGC since the survivors will be transported to respawn points after down, so this compensation would be something like noed base kit)
Gen rush can be fixed if you would be able to level the average generator repair time among swf and solo survivors, and the best way would be to have more Solo generators on the map, giving more time from the middle to the end match in the chases, and I believe that 4 of the 7 generators being Solo gens would be pretty ok, (so swf would need to do at least 2 full Solo generators)
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395193#Comment_3395193
OP is complaining that killers have a perk that does something effective. Can't have that in DbD! Every killer perk must be completely nonfunctional, or else someone might actually be affected by it.
and now with 3 tokens as killer you don't give the survivor time to gain enough space to position well in the loops and gain space after the hit, something that before would only start to be felt with 5 tokens
Their injured speed boost is plenty to get them somewhere, if they know where to run. If they can't position themselves somewhere to loop, it's because they put themselves in a terrible location to start with, which is their own fault. Or should 100% of the map be loops, now?
And now you have the nerf in the average healing time, with the people living injured for middle to end-game (when there's no more med-kits), which will make it possible to tunnel easily, and just because other high-tier killers can do this without needing the perk doesn't mean they don't need tweaking
You know survivors can heal each other, right? The altruism healing nerf was reverted, there's nothing stopping them. And once again complaining that killers being able to hit survivors encourages tunneling. More non-arguments!
i know about the changes, and you ignored all points of how the perk worked >>>>BEFORE<<<<<<< the base-kti buff of the killers in the previous mid-chapter.
And how will the person have a crystal ball to position themselves well if they don't even know if the killer has the perk, only after the hit? Even more so when it was removed from a hook located in deadzone. This is not an argument at all, it just threw a hypothetical situation in the wind.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395199#Comment_3395199
Tunneling and camping have been in the game from the start. They are valid strategies that survivors need to get over. Killers are under no expectation to spread out hooks and not take advantage of any situation where they can get an early kill.
Asking for STBFL to be nerfed, because they can help aid tunneling and camping is a bad reason to nerf the perk.
valid strategy yes, but that should not be encouraged, even more when used to the extreme, requiring perks and team with comms to counteract these game design exploits.
In the best of analogies, you as a killer won't want to be supervisor of popping gens just because you didn't come prepared with the correct perks against swf gen-rush build + bnps
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395168#Comment_3395168
In my short time on this forum I've noticed that nearly everything killers do is complained about with "it makes tunneling/camping worse!" I've heard it said about so many things that I've started automatically dismissing any argument that uses it.
Anything that makes it easier for a killer to down a survivor can, theoretically, make it easier to tunnel or camp. It's a non-argument, it only exists to pretend it's a valid criticism of anything a player wants to gripe about. They won't be happy until it's literally impossible for a killer to hit someone.
I understood perfectly what the OP meant, even though didn't express himself well
He didn't play in the air that "increases" tunnel and camp and ended the argument there, if you read everything, you understand.
STBFL is quickly allowing the chases to have their average time reduced, with little investment from the killers, since they won 2 STBFL basekit in the last mid-chaper, and now with 3 tokens as killer you don't give the survivor time to gain enough space to position well in the loops and gain space after the hit, something that before would only start to be felt with 5 tokens.
And now you have the nerf in the average healing time, with the people living injured for middle to end-game (when there's no more med-kits), which will make it possible to tunnel easily (and camp against killers who defend the hook well, i.e, Bubba, and who need the double save technique from survivors), and just because other high-tier killers can do this without needing the perk doesn't mean they don't need tweaking
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394697#Comment_3394697
Killer Instinct is meant to be uncounterable with perks, thats the way it was designed
Giving distortion the ability to negate this destroys the entire point of the mechanic as its meant to be a way to track survivors without aura read
well, there were several concepts in the game that didn't have a counter, like perma sabo hooks, insta mori on firist down with iris memento, infinite loops, etc.
What I mean by that is that it's not because the game was developed with an innate design that cannot be changed, even more so when that design has no counter, which is not healthy in a long run.
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30s or less of chase is what blight and nurse and the most top-tier killers can do, especially in tournaments, but the maths around it in macro game only work if you take into account teams with builds (perks) in synergy and comms and help after downs (even with some perks not allowed), which it's not the reality of most game lobbies, but as for the question of the changes themselves, it was the best they could do from all of our feedbacks since you have three roles togheter: killer, survivor and solo survivor.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394693#Comment_3394693
Timing one button hardly requires what I would call skill. That's just me though.
when skillchecks get faster from hyperfocus with 4+ tokens, yes, I would say it requires skill, even more so with things like doctor's madness and perks like Unnerving Presence
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powercreep is a situation that is already happening in the game, mainly in the last contents released before SM (skull merchant), you had COB (sadako), you had pain res (artist), you had deadlock (pinhead), eruption (nemesis), etc. And the last mid-chapter practically made the use of certain perks worse compared to others, increasing the powercreep
And I agree with you, OP, to create a healthier meta, it's not always going to be nerfing the most used perks, because they don't necessarily indicate that there's something broken or OP, like nerfs in self-care (used a lot just to cover SoloQ issue), ruin, calm spirit, pop, etc.
The devs saw that this wasn't very well received in the last mid-chapter and yet they wanted to risk again the same forced meta change, which now ended up affecting the killers role more and now they are feeling how it was.
Anyway, the correct way is exactly trying to put more consistency in the other perks, and it doesn't matter if they are 200+, the work must be well done to precisely create more varieties instead of doing it in half by nerfing about 10 and thinking that's the rest left is fine and people will be satisfied.
And I would say that the survivors meta is the one that is more static than compared to the killers. To this day survivors have so few hide aura perks (OR and distortion), the same varieties of end-game perks, no hide killer instinct perks, nothing to hide sounds of running footsteps, running exhaust sounds, etc, and that's it, everything could be implemented in existing perks like lightweight, bite the bullet (hide aura), distortion (proc. by killer instinct), etc.,
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I believe they want to reduce the use of the two perks, because both have high pick-rates even though it is not an "issue" perk individually, but when they stack and around 3-gen which is more a game-design problem of how the generators are scattered across the map
For me, I would have just removed the track from the cob so that it no longer warns if the generator was touched with skillcheck, decreasing the synergy with overcharge and giving Surveillance a new air to be used again, since it has the sole purpose of giving track in a niche build.
Anyway, people are seeing how that thing of mid-chapter is bad by forcing artificially meta changes, messing with the most used perks, because being more used doesn't always mean being broken or op even more so when one side is more affected than the other, which happened in the last mid-chaper of July, with perks like self-care being nerfed (just used a lot for soloQ), calm spirit, spine chill, IW, etc, instead of just changing only the problematics and buffing other non-meta perks to increase the viability of usable perks to compete with the most consistent ones
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394327#Comment_3394327
No, best way is to always punish people in this matter, even at worst those kind of "bad" people stops playing which improves game drastically.
No matter how things change people throws tantrum on slightest of things, anything beside actual punishment doesn't work at all.
Most people rather just play than staying afk, and suicide shouldn't even be a thing from the beginning as it is literally just a DC without any penalty.
Sure, you have every right to disagree and take the extreme shortcut, but I guarantee it won't do the trick, which will lead to more burnout, including those who say they never do that behavior.
If this weren't a mass phenomenon, people wouldn't complain about the same things across multiple games, and guess where they occur? all in team pvp games, which makes things pretty bad here because it's asymmetrical. I can't prove it with stats, but just go to forums for games like ow, paladins, lol, smite, etc,
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The best way for you to resolve behaviors, even more this specific type in online pvp games >>>phenomenon<<<, is to try to discover the reasons behind it, which are obviously linked to the fun of the person/match, instead of punishing even more, since if the person doesn't wants to play anymore, will simply resort to other methods like afk or suicide.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393735#Comment_3393735
yeah , some people dont feel confident to do gens or to be useful whatsoever when they arent healthy. i feel your pain...
it's not really a question of not feeling confident or when or not to heal, but question of SoloQ issues, you don't have free discord/radar to pass to others the possible location of the killer and with that playing safe, either to save, make gens or start a loop properly, that's why 2 health state is a core game design and killers like plague have a high kill-rate even on top precisely because bypass it, it's like playing with noed and third seal all match in SoloQ with uncleansable totem since if you clean yourself to try to save someone, you release her true power (lose-lose situation), starting a cheap snowball
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like the others said, if you really do the maths around, it's worth wanting the altruistic healing to be more worthwhile than self-heal, since it will be -2 or -3 people in gens to move, group and heal to try to nullify the hit and run tatic (16s ~8s if 2 or 3 people), which will lead to generators being made in more time, up to 30s more.
As for the coh issue, maybe the values are a little inflated, I think something around 80% to take the well to heal altruistically to be a little smaller than altruistic healing time of med-kits (not counting the time to bless, and both move to the radius, which already balances even at 100%), but let's see the comparison videos on healing speeds when the update goes to the live server
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it started to be a problem after the last mid-chapter update on last year, as the killers got a StBFL mini base-kit cutting 10% of the animation after hitting a survivor (3 for 2.7 seconds), it's basically 2 free stacks, not counting the sprint cut in 10% of the survivors (2 to 1.8s), and others like the base-kit mini BS (brutal strength), etc
Returning to the subject, I believe that StBfL starts to be problematic with 3 tokens, when the perk would only start to be reasonable with 5, and finally, there was never a nerf in the perk to compensate for the buffs in the killers' base-kit, and I believe that yes, the perk must be touched to reduce it's power in the amount of stacks or reverse the 10% cut from the cd of the hit in killers and sprint of the survivors, is the reason for the explosion of use on this perk
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/371303/thoughts-on-april-developer-update
Can you please explain to me why just self healing was the problem and not altruistic healing, if you don't mind?
Because I hear everybody saying those exact same words, but not a single one of them have given any reason or explanation for this "fact".
because it took 8 seconds for you to heal without needing the team's help with med-kit and stacked with coh, denying the pressure of the killer at any time of the match, specially against mid-tier killers (which will start to be felt more now in the middle to the end of the match)
Taking 16s to heal altruistically (or more, if you take into account mangled, hemorrhagic etc) or around 10~12 altruistic with coh/med-kit, is ok for you to take the focus off from the gens (-2 or 3 survivor healing each other), then you differentiate self-heal from altruistic for both to be used correctly and tactically
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393390#Comment_3393390
It will be slightly, just slightly better than what it is now, but ultimately nowhere near usable.
And healing speed itself hasn't really been nerfed either, as altruistic healing has been buffed to "compensate".
Please do note I never said anything to gen regression or whatever, it's just that they failed to achieve their first intended goal while making gap bigger between those two side of survivors.
objectively analyzing it, yes, I can agree with you that they might have failed , which may have increased the gap but that's precisely why I said there in the 1st answer to you, it was the best they managed to do to plesure the 3 roles of the game (killer, survivor and >>solo survivor< <), managing to capture the feedback of everyone, the gap/hole could have been deeper if changes were not reversed in base-kit heal and thought only balancing around swf
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393376#Comment_3393376
But then people really didn't used self heal, most of the time they used it for extremely quick healing through altruistic healing which exactly they brought back.
Whether it's temporary or not doesn't really matter, early fast heals can negate most of "pressure" through injuries so more or less injure doesn't matter now.
even if it is a coordinated team, maybe in the early game, yes, it will negate your hit and run tactic, but in the middle to the end, it will definitely be worth it much more than now, it's more a matter of valuing whether or not the chase is worth to down someone.
changing the subject, I think people are overreacting to the nerfs in gen regression, as if 3-gen and other game design exploits were going to disappear, tunneling will continue to be profitable much more as it is now, and 3-gen will continue "usable" with the cob and overcharge combo together and pain ress has now been "improved" (what I and others are still trying to improve, like giving suggestions for pain res to stop being a scourge perk and improve everyone's experience)
Not that I agree with all the nerfs, but as people have been talking about since the previous mid-chapter, it wasn't just x or y role perks that were nerfed, both had over-nerfs, i.e, centuries ago resurgence, solidarity and other non-meta -survivor perks are dead, in favor of shaking up the meta to reduce usage of some non-issue perks (and other many due to ignoring feedback)
edit: if you had a flat 100% value and allowed self-heal on coh, sure it wasn't used for altruistic healing in most matches, but for self-heal, since by logic, solos are the majority of the lobby in the game (making a presumption since neither you nor I have this data)
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393350#Comment_3393350
You really don't need to "analyze" it as we HAD that exact thing in past, and it was problematic.
? But back in the day (when Mikaela launched), even though it was 100%, it also allowed (as it still does now) self-heal, it's not comparable (the new one will be 100%, but on altruistic heal and can't stack with items, you can't heal yourself anymore on coh)
One thing I forgot to point out, med-kits' altruistic healings are >>temporary<<, so however much you might want to spend on a teeamate, you're going to be "sacrificing" yourself in their place later on, since the main purpose of a med-kit is heal yourself, and since the charges are right for 1 heal (with a little more than 16 precisely because of the penalty in self-heal all rarities), then it's kind of a choice to bring niched builds around built to last (which can still be easily countered with franklin and other anti-heal perks)
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393314#Comment_3393314
-2 people on generator rather than -1, but then it's like -90% healing time.
I doubt it will matter much as long as survivors can coordinate together.
Then there is survivors who can't coordinate very well..
i mean, sure, we can see the COH situation as a point to be analyzed in the long run, since it allows altruistic healing to be very fast and people have to move and group in the radius, maybe the values have to be reduced or reworked for something new, but remembering that this is a boom, which at first would have to be a second objective in the game for the survivors, working as a time-sink and being worth it in exchange for something valuable.
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there's actually no way you can balance the game very well without definitely separating Solo and SWF, so it was the best solution to not hurt SoloQ even more, so they did a good job taking into account the current situation and the feedbacks.
I mean, they keep the base-heal ticks at 16 charges and nerf exactly the problematic point which was being able to self-heal in 8 seconds using med-kits and coh, so, avoided having to mess with various heal/anti heal perks, addons and effects around macro game, puts a debuff on the med-kit's self-healing and thus just tries to force people to group and heal (-2 people on generators) , but still being able to heal yourself with med-kit, but in 20 seconds +- taking into account max potential from med-kit addons (since not stack with coh anymore) with less charges in all rarities.
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pain ress woul be very greatfull if they remove it from the scourge perks, just by hook normally with the regression values buffed now, since have 4 tokens.
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if it was before the rework on the perk that devs buffed it, giving infinite UB, I would even agree, but now that would already be 2 effects together, even though with "infinite ub", the perk is very under-used because it is difficult to have value outside swf.
I prefer a rework on the DH itself, since currently for an exhaustion perk, it already has many requirements. This is my proposal:
@randonly said:
well, like developer Q&A said, dead hard will be reworked, so, this is my ideia for the new dead hard:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CV7LRQC9B4A7/dh1.png
whenever you suffer an basic attack or special attack when in a Healthy State that puts you direct in the Dying State, Dead Hard activates automatically, putting you directly in the Deep Wound stateDead Hard causes the Exhausted Status Effect for40/50/60 secondsDead Hard causes the Broken Status Effect for 40/50/60 secondsDead Hard cannot be used when Exhausted or Injuried
The idea here is basically to rework the perk to be useful when we have killers that naturally manage to put the survivor directly in the dying state (bypassing Healthy state) through special attacks (Bubba, Ghost Face, Myers, etc) or through perks/a-ddons (Iridescent Head, Iridescent Blight Tag, Starstruck, NOED, etc.)
So Killers that are essentially m1 would not be affected and as they are still the majority in the game, many survivors would waste a slot for nothing with this perk that may not even be used in the game, and at the same time, only activates if the survivor is fully healed and not exhausted
edit: Add broken status effect