StarLost
StarLost
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/295601/stop-asking-for-everything-to-be-nerfed
The only way to buff various perks so they are used is to make them as strong as the meta perks, thus initiating extreme power creep where every new perk needs to be even more and more broken.
This is the other side of the issue, and it does feel like it's slowly happening to both killers and especially survivors when something new is added.
CoH was a mistake.
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@IsMmrReal said:
I ask this because I am a FIRM believer in NOT cleansing against Plague. Without her corrupt in which she has only one fountain without addons she is simply an M1 killer which leaves he weak as heck imo. Why do people cleanse if you are a cleanser that is. You only give her more power by doing so. Let me know I am super curious as to a reason for cleansing. Also each game where randoms cleansed the Plague won but every match where they dont we get a good number of us out.
As someone who's been playing a lot of Plague recently:
If in doubt, Cleanse. If you feel safe, hang on. If not many people have been cleansing for a while - cleanse.
It's easier to dodge my red vommy than it is to avoid my perma NOED. Plus, unless you are coordinating, I'm getting my pools anyway and then you are really in trouble.
I'll also fairly frequently run the iri that gives me auras on anyone vomiting, because so many teams refuse to cleanse. It's...incredible.
@Maliken said:
You shouldn’t cleanse at all unless all generators have finished, it’s better to take a down for what is effectively m1 killer as opposed to turning her into a super huntress that can easily snowball with infectious fright and down your whole team.
Got to love those survivors that feed her that power by cleansing, only to get sick again seconds later because they have to unhook an infected survivor or repair an infected gen.
Don't cleanse/always cleanse both give me a lot of free wins. It usually isn't a big deal to reinfect you and perma red is very strong.
You have to be aware of how many infected people are playing and how many pools I have at my disposal.
Where I start running into issues is groups that know roughly where I am and always run to the furthest pool to cleanse. This can completely nullify me.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648663#Comment_2648663
Same if I see 2-3 flashlights or toolboxes I dodge. I see a grouping of all Dwights I dodge.....if it's a Team of all Ace........I will get my best sweatiest killer and make sure anyone who uses Ace dies a slow and painful death on the hook............DEATH TO ALL ACES SHALL THIER SMUG FACES BURN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!
Flashlights I honestly welcome, unless I'm playing Wraith.
Aside from the occasional 'wut' stun, most of the time people end up giving me free hits and chases with the things. The only time they really get on my grapes is when you get the flicky flicky macro types - for a company that bills itself as 'inclusive' they certainly don't have much regard for us photosensitive types, and that strobing...welcome to my 'now you die' list.
Toolboxes? Yeah, that's scary. I'll usually throw on Franklin's+Hoarder and let shenanigans commence. Sometimes it's a PTS comp and I lose 4 gens before my first hook, but there's no real helping that.
What frustrates me though is people who switch to addons just before the timer goes red, meaning I can't counter it. Honestly, changing items should Unready the killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Why do I have to sit through a 3v1 at 5 gens or eat a d/c penalty? Nobody wants to do that on either side. Matches already void themselves if someone disconnects at the loading screen. You already know nobody wants to play a 3v1 because you made that change a long time ago. This is a massive QoL feature that the game is sorely lacking. Let players take a one-time vote on whether they want to continue the match or not.
I'd rather have a stronger DC penalty, especially for repeat DCers.
Of my first seven matches of the day, 5 had DCs. That's ridiculous. And not 'the killer is camping me' or 'I'm having internet issues' DCs, it's always either when I first down or first hook them.
What I'll usually do is let everyone else get a few gens done, 2 hook them and then let them escape. Maybe I'll kill 1 more at 1 gen.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
But I bet you didn't complain about the prior matches where you 4k'd...
One odd result of the SBMM system is that, at least at my MMR, everyone seems to be conscious of 'managing' their MMRs.
I'll generally try to give the last person the hatch, or sometimes even 2 people the gates (if they've been fun). I've had them decline and a hilarious stand-off ensures, with me trying to physically carry them out and them running back into the map to die to the collapse.
Sure enough in postgame: 'Thanks, but I'm trying to shed some MMR'.
Then...then you get the smurfs. Entire 3-4man groups AFKing, or suiciding on their first hooks. People with thousands of hours.
It's an improvement over ranks for sure, but it has it's ideosyncracies.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648696#Comment_2648696
i did because they were boring as #########..? mmr when im playing someone new takes me from sub 20 hour players to 5k hour players with no inbetween, its a curbstomp for either side and it's really unfun lmfao
I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with some of my matchups. I'm 50% sure it's due to lobby dodges. I'll get a crazy hard match, a crazy easy match and then a match with one scarily good survivor that plays far above my level and 3 potatoes in an SWF together.
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
Pinhead as whole seems to be underrated. I seen people claim he is "weak".
Watch Otz's recent streams with him. He's...rough. Relies heavily on addons (most of which are getting nerfed) and a gimmicky playstyle involving finding the box early using Lethal Protector. If this fails, he's only really good for crushing newbies.
His anti-loop tool is weak. Easy to dodge, often barely gains ground. Almost useless indoors.
He has to try and either find the box, or reclaim the box. Without hunts, he's bad.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
We know Pinheads best addons are the Engineers fang the box solving addons and Wire and the glasses. But there’s one addon that gets slept on a lot that I think is his best addon. That’s Slice of Frank, in case you don’t know what it does
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O2U9HGBYLB8H/f25e4939-9614-4200-9f20-8f15692e4325.jpeg
That’s the effect and the reason why I think it’s so good is because this addon is a big ######### you to Dead hard and Sprint burst. I saw a video of Otz playing as Pinhead showing Lethal Pursuer and every time he tried to down someone with the box they always dead harded prolonging the chase. But when I ran this addon I didn’t get dead harded once This addon is very good and I recommend running it more
I actually find that one to be mostly 'meh'. I'll probably have to run it post patch, but that's more a matter of a lot of his addons being nerfed to Freddy/PH levels.
My issue is that savvy survivors, by the time you reach them, have already ran the box to an ultra-safe loop or pallet.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
4x Prove Thyself, Dead Hard, Iron Will, Borrowed Time, each with matching clan tags, a Commodious, BNP and Wire Spool, as well as Badham offerings should be enough penance for your sins. Because making the jump from sub 1k hour players to over 4k hour players makes perfect logical sense, right?
The second I see matching clantags or themed names, I know it's dodgy dodge time.
Win or lose, these games are such a sweatfest that I never have fun.
What really scares me are the 4man SWFs that you don't realize are a 4man SWF - until you see a bazillion further hooks offerings on Haddonfield/Badham/RPD offerings and 3x Brand New Parts.
Woof.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646620#Comment_2646620
The wonks are just failures of the game not registering DH. Previously, you got screwed out of your perk activation even though you definitely used it at the right time. All this does it fix that. It's not survivor sided. It's server-sided. The server is what makes the final decision on a hit or not. If they didn't do it in time, you get downed. If you do it before the hit actually goes through, you get denied the hit. No matter how we feel on the matter, this is balance for a perk that was worthless for a long time due to bad ping killers who you don't know have bad ping.
(Edit: Replaced registered with registering to make it correct)
Sure.
But DH was balanced around these 'wonks'. It was still the most meta of the meta perks.
Now the 'wonks' all go against the killer. Whether you call it a fix or a 'fix' or a 'validatation issue', the net result is the same. It's a buff.
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@The_Krapper said:
Having hope we get a winter solstice event got me thinking, If any of you could create your own event in the game what would the objective be? How would you create an event to keep everyone entertained while rewarding the grind at the same time? The forum has been filled with negativity so I'm trying to spread a little positivity while giving everyone a chance to express their interests on what would make an event worth while for them let's hear what you've got!
I just want a flat % BP bonus. Maybe some stuff to pick up for extra BP.
I don't care what event - call it Guy Fawkes, call it 'get your perks' month. It's batty to me that I've been playing for going on 250 hours and I haven't unlocked all the perks I want, let alone on all the killers I want. I've barely touched the survivor perks at that.
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@Prex91 said:
Like title, I hope people that doesnt like some aspect of the game partecipate with their ideas, and maybe some of that can arrive to devs consideration. I start.
So for me, and probably for a big part of players, the fun part of the game is the interaction between players, especially when from both two side (chases etc). However for many reasons, especially because balance problems, that are in total very low in a game for me, and that is the real big problem of the game. Making some game killers beggin for secure a kill from tunneling or camping, because even with good Time efficency and chase skill objective go to fast, survivor can prolong chases with second chances and even fast reset with healing builds. That, with gigantic maps, make almost impossibile for killers to even left a hook and try to get to a gen to make it regress with perks before it pops, and make them left the idea to even try. Devs said they will "buff" Solo (ping system? ) and "nerf" Killer facecamp (something like camaderie or buff to other survivor speed while one on the hook), and I think are good idea requested by Years. However when have to see if they will compensate for killers, cause now is clear like a decent swf with broken survivor stuff can one side dominate a game, make killer experience bad, begging to play.
So, clear waiting for these solo improvement and hope devs will nerf survivor broken stuff, I think an healthy solution for the hold w problem, that reduce interaction between two sides, can be make something like blight serum (using another button, not the power one) BASE KIT. It rewards you for win a chase and get and hook with a speed Boost and I think, if make that only usabile for like 10/20 seconds, you can use it to left the hook and go patrol a gen or apply pressure to survivors, incentivazing a safer rescue. Instead, for killers that already can use their power to fast travel the map, but have chase problems, they can have another bonus, like a bloodlust sprint usable in chase, to get a few pallet down faster. That are my ideas, hope you can suggest yours there guys.
In Summary: map controll killer= base kit add-on one time usable immediate temporany bloodlust to help in chase.
Killer chase based killers= base kit blight serum, to suggest left hook and pressure.
Changes:
- Add a gap to the 'House of Pain' infinites on Badham and Haddonfield.
- Revert Wraith, Cenobite and Slinger nerfs.
- Give solo survivors better tools to communicate.
- Change Pig's terror radius to 24m
- Split RPD into 2 maps
- Add a 'Recruit A Friend' feature - so long as you are both actively in games at the same time (doesn't have to be the same match), you both gain double BP for 1 month (it's really hard to convince new people to try it, due to the grind required).
- Buff underperforming perks for both survivor and killer
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@GannTM said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DK1YAGRKQ9E7/screenshot-28108-29.png
Do you mind explaining this? How in the world did RNG let two pallets spawn so close together like this? It's OG DBD all over again apparently.
It happens.
From my understanding, maps have a 'pallet quota'. Sometimes this results in some very weird spawns. I more often see it in the 'Autohaven' maps.
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@shalo said:
Easily the worst, especially now that it has a built in Killer trap. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646028
What in the...
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@k0reant3a said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648520#Comment_2648520
I agree with you 100% they shouldn’t be looking at low play to make balance changes look at the high level of play 👍
See, that's the thing.
I'm fine with them balancing around low MMR.
I'm fine with them balancing around high MMR.
What I'm not fine with is the double standard.
Nerfing killers because they do too well/are too easy to play for new killers at low MMR, without concern for their performance at high MMR and also refusing to buff killers that do terribly/are too hard to play for new killers at low MMR with the implication that you don't want to mess with high MMR balance is very, very frustrating.
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@lauraa said:
Rpd and midwich are objectively the best maps in Dbd
Objectively 'worst', certainly.
RPD is a confusing, convoluted mess that worked fine in a SP game about gradual exploration and expansion. It's abysmal in DbD.
It's not the objective 'worst'. I'd say Haddonfield is - simply because of the never fixed (and thus never likely to be fixed) infinite. But that's just on the killer side of things (survivors all seem to love Haddonfield, they certainly bring enough offerings for the bloody place).
But there are fortunately only a handful of survivors that'll exploit it extensively (at least at my MMR) and in those cases I can usually try to pressure elsewhere.
I can't think of a single fun game I've had on RPD. Win or lose, it's a misery.
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@FlameGNG said:
yes im good at making titles :)
anyways going against bad killers and bad survivors EVERY SINGLE GAME, yes i win most of them but half the games are trolls and sweaty killers tryharding when 2 or 1 survivors disconnect at the start because they go down "to fast". Have had a few games against hook campers. now u mught think yea ez win for u they are doing gens...
NO my teammates are watching me behind a hayball or a wall and trading hook stages instead of doing gens... they drop god pallets like they are filler pallets... I am FAR from perfect i make some mistrakesdont get me wrong. but im outclassing the mmr im in rn and even tho i win 90% of my matches i never get to play against better killers / survivors. isnt the point with mmr to match you up against players with the same skill level.
and yes im typing this a little pissed off :) how could you tell
when we had rank 20 - 1 and the old matchmaking system it was fair matches they were hard and rough now its either slaughter or troll matches where they trade hooks unhook infront of killers without BT etc... no one is running team perks at all. but at the end of the day im soloQ so what should i expect.
OBS! dont comment about spelling errors i believe yall are competent enough to read with some minor spelling mistakes
I'd love to know what is going on myself.
I haven't been winning or losing any more than normal, but all of my games this afternoon have been against crazily sweaty survivor groups, two of them streamer premades.
Have had to play crazily sweaty myself to get 2-outs, which I don't enjoy. I'm fine with 2-outs, but we're talking 4000 hour whales with legacy skins here.
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@Sluzzy said:
I don't think the game designers are aware at all how weak survivors are. Survivors have gotten so discouraged from the lack of hope and oppressiveness of killers such as Blight that nobody tries. I just played against a Blight with the same meta build and everyone fell to the floor because they knew they couldn't win. From a distance all I saw was 3 on the floor near a hook. I left my gen and of course it regressed to nothing.
MMR is partly to blame because killers treat the game now like a critical job rather than a fun game. If they don't get a 4K, the world is going to end. At 5 gens, the killer stood there and watched me on the hook in case I kobed while another person bleed out on the ground. I proudly wasted his time by not trying to kobe. The survivors clearly gave up but this killer showed no mercy at all.
MMR is not working, matches never feel like a 2E possibility. It is too difficult to get 5 gens done against the killer meta.
Another thing that would help survivor morale is to always allow a survivor to escape without a killer outright denying it. Why do killers have ability to slug and prevent the hatch from appearing? How was this even allowed? If this was fixed, there would always be "Hope" and the survivors would try to see what happens in what might be impossible wins. There needs to be more incentives to try to survive in matches that seems to be completely lost.
I don't know but this should be the highest priority of the game designers. A match should always have a possible win outcome. Matches are not a game when one side doesn't try because the match is so lopsided in favor of killers.
I totally agree!
I mean, why do we even need killers anymore in this game? Honestly, put a few Nemesis zombies in for people that want a challenge in an optional mode and otherwise just let it be a race to see which team can do 5 gens fastest.
What do you mean this is supposed to be a PvP game, fun for both sides? It's 2021 people!
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648444#Comment_2648444
Well if he has the second highest kill rate, how awful can he honestly be?
It's the Cenobite problem.
These killers are very strong against extremely new/low MMR survivors, which likely represents a lot of the playerbase and these numbers are throwing off the stats. They are mediocre to weak in higher MMRs.
How do I know?
Look at the Nurse kill rates.
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@Marigoria said:
Literally, there is always a thread asking for this or that to be nerfed. When something gets nerfed, people start going down the list on what they want getting nerfed next....
If anything, there are a lot of perks that need a buff so they aren't dogshit and people can have more variety in their builds.
Same goes for killers, imo, no killer needs a nerf right now, but there are a lot of low tier killers that surely could get a little buff or at least some quality of life updates.
Can we stop asking for everything to get nerfed? One day everything will be dogshit and nothing will actually be worth playing as/using.
This is known as a Slippery Slope fallacy, and it's...well, a fallacy.
There are plenty of things that need to be nerfed/fixed.
- The Haddonfield House of Pain.
- The Badham House of Pain
- DH eating killer powers and giving fake hits.
- CoH when combined with other healing perks/addons.
There is simply no defending an infinite where a competent survivor can lead Nemesis (of all killers) on a chase for almost 5 minutes, in the hands of one of the best killer players in the world
@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648166#Comment_2648166
Thoese people don't want balance. They just want to one side to completely have total control and power over others
And a Strawman. All I need is a whataboutism and I'll have fallacy Bingo!
@ThanksForDaily said:
Pretty much all the threads are nerf Dead Hard when over 50% of the player base doesn't know how to use it btw.
If they nerf it sometime, next on the line for "nerf threads" is Sprint Burst, 100%.
DH, as it was, was strong.
DH, as it is now, is broken.
The fact that it gives fake hits and futzes with killer powers in a way that is unlikely to be able to be fixed means that the perk will have to be balanced around this now.
@Verconissp said:
I dunno bout that,
The game hands alot of Second chances for survivors..
Soloq? not so much, But swfs? 100%
hate to tell ye but, Survivors needs more nerfs than killers,
This.
And - believe it or not - the power of certain loops and certain perks is actually going to be detrimental to survivors after a certain point.
We are already in an arms-race with killer and survivor powers, and it's only going to get worse from here. Currently BHVR seem to be trying to creating killers with more and more powerful anti-loop abilities, which is eventually going to end badly.
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@aknitus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/295574/is-rpd-the-worst-map-in-the-game
When players start playing this game for competitiveness and not for fun, that is when RPD starts getting all the negative votes it can get. I have a lot of fun playing RPD, and after 4-5 games, you can get a basic sense of the entire map.
Ideally, this game should be competitive and fun.
I understand the layout of the place.
I still don't have fun on RPD, either as survivor or killer.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
Welcome again, survivors of the Fog. It's time for another developer update, this time with our most anticipated patch yet-- 5.5, the long-promised "Game Health" update. We know that you've been eager for us to look inside and focus on what's really important, and we're more than happy to deliver. There will be no killers this update, no survivors, no boons nor buffs, no perks nor even our legendary pristine cosmetics. We're here to help you really feel like Dead by Daylight.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TU52GLCSEZO5/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/68HV8SOD59YK/image.png
the exit gates
Ah, the exit gate. Part and parcel of every good match. The survivor's main objective is to power these glorious golden gates and leave through them, but as we've noticed, many people have issues with this. Not technical issues, of course, but worse-- moral issues.
Opened exit gates seem to create a feeling of safety for which bad manners seem inevitable, but we've taken several steps to ensure good manners and create a feeling of danger again.
- When all living survivors are gathered within the exit gate, the Endgame Collapse timer counts down 6 times faster, until only 5 seconds remain.
- Survivors within the Exit Gate are inflicted with the Incapacitated, Oblivious and Exposed status effects, and for 5 seconds after leaving the boundary.
- Survivors within the Exit Gate are unable to crouch, to prevent them from developing proper leg muscle with squats.
With these changes, we hope to bring just a little bit of civilization back to the Exit Gates and create a culture of mutual respect. And encourage people to just please get out.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DQVQLNECY5PM/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MG3OD7NA3L2O/image.png
Slugging
We've said it time and again, and we'll say it some more; slugging is a fair and valid tactic. It's no less allowed than doing generators and hooking survivors. But we realized that players being essentially immobilized until further action by another player may cause issues, so we implemented the generous four minute bleed-out system to make sure things eventually end, assuming that this would be the end of the issue.
Unfortunately, we have severely doubted the power of some socially maladjusted individuals, for whom we gave an inch and were subsequently and violently robbed of every centimeter in our pockets.
Some players are unfortunately forced to wait the whole 4 minutes to bleed out for reasons we cannot possibly fathom, and so, we have taken steps to combat this.
- Should all players be downed with no possible way to recover (Unbreakable, No Mither, and Boon: Exponential are not in effect), after 30 seconds, players will have the option to bleed out 10 times faster, ensuring that no one is forced to wait more than a minute.
- All downed survivors' auras will be revealed at this point, to allow killers with the intention to hook easy ability to do so and end the game.
- The faster bleedout option will persist through pick-ups, and the wiggle counter will not decrease over time if the survivor is dropped, preventing killers from "dribbling" to keep survivors from bleeding out faster.
With these changes, we hope to severely reduce the number of players forced to bleed out, as well as take a little pride in taking something away from previously aforementioned genetic aberrations.
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https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/I55C2OFCHO7R/image.png
Hide and seek
We make no bones about it-- Dead by Daylight can be scary sometimes. We've all been there, hiding from the killer under shadowed tree, hoping he doesn't see your ankle sticking out, heart pounding as you wonder if he'll look your way. Hiding can be an extremely fun and tense playstyle!
But as we all know, some people can take it too far. Some poor killer's games have gone on for up to 50 minutes, looking for survivors that know all too well how to exploit the AFK crow's spawn conditions. Survivors refusing to do generators and simply hiding away to stall for as long as possible reaches the level of thrill commonly found in waiting in line, so we've come up with good ways to prevent these scenarios.
- We have implemented a hard 20 minute cap on a game. After 20 minutes have passed, all survivors are sacrificed by the Entity. At this point, the game is fully over, and the "leave game" button will be replaced with "view results" to skip the animations and leave without consequence, if something prevents players from exiting.
- After 10 minutes, if a total of 10% of generator progress per living survivor hasn't been completed every minute, every Survivor will scream and reveal their location. If this persists the next minute, all survivors will have 3 AFK crows. If this persists one more time, all survivors will have their auras revealed. This persists until a survivor has been downed.
With these implementations, we hope to inject just the smallest bit of excitement back into the lives of those clearly needing the help.
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Body blocking
Every good Wraith's best friend. A Billy and Bubba who manage to corner survivors with this ingenious trick will find themselves greatly rewarded, but unfortunately, this is another unintentional feature with an unintentional side effect.
A survivor who finds themselves body blocked, especially by the killer, will find themselves completely at the mercy of outside forces to be able to exit the game normally, which could take any number of minutes between one and one hundred. A survivor misfortunate enough to be body blocked by a killer all alone would have absolutely no recourse, and could be kept there forever until the killer's bizarre, deviant desires are satisfied.
With the following change, we hope to completely eliminate sad situations like this and give all players an out other than the "leave game" button and a DC penalty;
Standing still for 15 seconds removes all collision with other players for one second.
You don't need to body block anyone for longer than 15 seconds. That one's firmly under wants and desires.
And finally..
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https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8XO4ADX67KRC/image.png
map offerings
We've removed them.
You're welcome.
Happy hunting!
I'm...genuinely surprised.
I have literally no objection to anything here. Well done.
A few other thoughts (see: wishful thinking)
- In order to lessen the grind and make the experience for newer players substantially more pleasant, the BP gain aspects of BBQ and We're Gonna Live Forever are now baseline on all killers and survivors. We will rework these perks at a later date to give them some more power to compensate.
- We have limited the number of times a flashlight can be activated and deactivated in a short period of time, as we know that the strobe effect of 'flick macros' are prone to give killer players actual headaches and are abused by certain players.
- It's long overdue, but we have removed potential window spawns from the notorious 'House of Pain' loops on Badham and Haddonfield, as these amounted to infinites when used against certain killers.
- RPD has been removed from the game temporarily. We will be splitting this map into two separate maps and adjusting the layout to be less frustrating.
- We are deploying a bugfix to resolve the issues with Dead Hard providing 'fake hits' to killers, and eating certain killer powers.
- Snuffing a boon will prevent any boons being summoned for 60 seconds.
- Snuffing a boon will destroy that totem.
- Circle of Healing no longer stacks with other healing effects.
- Additional emotes have been provided for survivors, allowing solo survivors to communicate more effectively with their groups.
- The Bloodpoints gained when ranks are reset have been doubled. This can exceed the cap, but no more BP can be earned until this has been spent.
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@KblokoBR said:
How did bhvr realeses a totem that is even stronger then hexes (that btw have a ton of PERKS and ways to find them) and when the topic become survivor perks the counter is *Just hear it* and gl. This must be a joke LMAO.
I have some luck using Plaything liberally. The issue is that you have to build in expectation of boons on some killers, which results in very little room to use other perks.
@Labrac said:
Thrill of the Hunt could be decent, but it's a Hex, so you'll probably lose it in less than a minute anyways. Imo it doesn't deserve to be a Hex anymore.
Yup. This and Lullaby should really just be passives. They are too weak to be hexes.
@Sakurra said:
I think killers should see aura of totems with these new boons.
This would be my best solution. Auras of boons visible within 8m. Killers are time-starved as it is, and they can be a massive pain to locate in some spots.
The major issue though is that finding it and snuffing it feel like the wrong play a lot of the time, as they can just be resummoned and the time of 1 survivor is significantly less at a premium than the killer.
@KblokoBR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647909#Comment_2647909
This is great isn't it? Like, killers where to damn strong to suvivors now be able to counter every thing they could do
What?
Yes, if something has no real counterplay, or the counterplay requires a set of specific perks to be selected blindly in advance then there is a problem.
@KblokoBR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647896#Comment_2647896
Thrill of the hunt is the most decent one, the problem is he only works in hex totens, so dull and blessed aren't included.
The problem with Thrill is that it's a weak perk that serves absolutely no purpose unless the enemy is running boons, which turns it into a coinflip selection. It is also prone, like most hexes, to get cleansed really early on a lot of maps because it spawned right in the open, on top of a hill, next to a gen.
The only answer I've found to boonplay (CoH is the big problem here, Shadowstep and Exponential are mostly fine) is Plaything. And that's a problem.
Honestly, CoH is going to have to get nerfed eventually. It stacks way too well with other healing perks and flat-out hard counters attrition based killers.
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@Pizzasauce said:
There seem to be plenty of threads on why players are leaving the game, but how about some on how to get some to join? I play because my best friend talked me into it. I hated it at first. I don't like stealth games. I like shooters. But this game really drew me in. And then, as a horror movie buff, oh god the killers! And survivors! Laurie! Ash! It was heaven. I eventually talked my other friend into finally hooking back up his Xbox console and getting the game again from constant never shutting up about how great the game is-ness. And now, I'm trying to get my cousins to play. They say they will, on one condition (*TW*): if a FNAF crossover happens.
What else do you think we can do to bring more people into the game?
Trying to get the missus to try the game, but it's actually sort of a hard-sell.
I'd do the following if I was in charge:
- Make BBQ and WGLF BP gains baseline on all killers and survivors. Even with these, the grind can be ridiculous at times.
- Take more steps to combat in-game toxicity.
- Rework annoying/one sided maps on both ends.
- More advertising.
- A more robust set of tools for solo survivors to communicate.
- Some sort of training mode/bot-match, especially for killers. This role takes a long time to get to grips with.
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@anarchy753 said:
Rarely.
Usually it's if it comes down to two survivors and I can see one trying to do the gens and the other hiding and waiting for the first to die. I'll actively hunt the immersed one to make sure they die instead.
What really grinds my grapes is SWF groups where you have two left, one goes right to hatch, the other leads you off and deliberately DCs.
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@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647752#Comment_2647752
You pick the side that is easiest to defend, then you start getting downs. Ideally you picked a 3-gen to defend from the start and didn't let Survivors finish any of those gens while also forcing pallets down and getting as many hooks as possible, but that requires planning and thinking ahead, which most people can't or won't do.
In other words: Why did you let yourself get in that situation in the first place? if you have 2 gens left to be done and two sets of 2 gens on opposite sides, you ######### up and deserve to lose.
This isn't always possible, smart groups of survivors will make it very difficult to 3-gen. Plus, that's a really unfun way to play for both sides.
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@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647705#Comment_2647705
Because it's a maze and I like indoor maps. Also, I took the minimal effort to learn the map and I rely on prediction to find survivors, so...it's not a maze to me.
RPD is further proof that people are too lazy to bother trying anything that requires even minimal effort.
I understand the layout.
The issue is the time it can take me to get from 'A' to 'B', and sometimes this applies to hook placement too. I've had multiple situations where there is simply no hook within range that doesn't go through an obvious 'stun me' pallet.
This also applies to pressuring gens.
Which killers do you play, if you don't mind me asking? I only find this map tolerable on killers with excellent traversal abilities.
@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647731#Comment_2647731
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Learn the map and it stops being a problem and becomes an advantage. That's called self-improvement. That's called developing skill rather than relying on favorable mechanics to carry you. That's called...
getting good. Try it some time.
Again, I know the map.
On some killers, it doesn't help.
For example, you have 4 gens remaining. You are playing Bubba. You are in the main hall. Two of the gens are off in Narnia to your right and the other two are on the other side of the map to your left.
Which way do you go? Because if you pick the wrong one, both could be finished by the time you pick the right one.
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@Pizzasauce said:
I'm still fairly new myself but this is what I'd say:
Please don't cleanse a totem while a teammate lies dying beside you.
Mm.
@Myla said:
-Run kindred
-Stay away from the generators getting worked on and away from the hook
-You have massive sprint burst from getting injured that can take you from across the map depending on size
= win.
This is good advice, especially #2.
Grouping up on gens is how I win games as killer. Survivors that split up however give me a lot of trouble.
A few more:
- If someone gets chased off a gen, get on that gen yourself.
- Always, always be doing gens unless you are unhooking or being chased.
- On tall killers, you can give them a lot of trouble by running into them and crouching.
- Spinechill is an insanely powerful perk, but learn how to 'read' it right.
- Don't teabag or flick your flashlight at the killer. This is commonly accepted as a taunt/gloat/BM and is likely to get you tunneled and camped.
- On the other hand, if you manner up, killers (well, at least me) will sometimes let you escape.
- Learn the difference between a safe and unsafe pallet and a safe and unsafe vault. Drop unsafe pallets in advance. Be very careful of unsafe vaults.
- When you drop a pallet, keep running. 90% of the time, people that try to go back-and-forth over pallets end up giving me a free hit.
- Don't bodyblock the hook unless you are sure it'll result in a drop. Otherwise it's more likely to result in me snowballing as I'll hit you, hook them, then chase and down you.
- Learn to recognize killer perks and start listing which ones they have. If there is an empty spot, anticipate NOED. If there are two, anticipate NOED+NWO. These situations will likely require you to sacrifice an ally.
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@AnObserver said:
Flashlights (and Flashbangs/Firecrackers) for the most part are rarely used outside of when the Killer is in an animation lock (as well as being countered by Headphones if it's not a pickup animation lock) as they only take effect when shining it on the Killers face, outside of a few edge-case Lightburn features of Killers Powers.
How annoying would they be if they applied a Hinder when shown on the Killer in general? If they were to do that, how long would it take to apply the Hinder/how much battery used? Should the Flashlight keep the pickup-stun as a base-kit feature if they could Hinder as well, or should that be moved to an addon (or the Hinder as an addon)?
I see quite a few flashbangs. They are very powerful if you know how to use them, and sometimes result in nearly inescapable blinds/drops.
But...no.
If I recall, there was a period where flashlight stuns were guaranteed and almost instantaneous. It was absolutely miserable for killers.
Flashlights are a problem item and could easily be removed from the game without much effect on either side. They are mostly used to BM. In maybe 90% of cases, they do nothing and the other 10% are the 'wait is this guy hacking, how on earth did I get blinded?' moments.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
I love playing against her, as her, I literally love almost everything about her except one thing:
She's incredibly add on dependent, making her unfun without them.
Her base charge speed for haunting is unfun to play with, I bring at least a common every game to combat it if not 2 add ons. Faster charging encourages actual gameplay instead of holding W, It's a drawback that was meant for old spirit, not new spirit.
Secondly is her recharge rate. Once again, a long recharge was meant for old spirit who had a much stronger chase power. Currently she feels as though - due to slightly slower downs - she lacks in the 1v4 department.
I find it odd that Blight can have a miniscule cooldown and be 115% and spirit has a weaker chase and a weaker 1v1. Both of these changes would help her out and at that point Id argue she'd be literally perfect.
Id just build in a yellow recharge add on, yellow activation add on, then nerf the speed add ons by 2 or 3% and rework MDR to do something else.
Thoughts?
Unfortunately this is true of a lot of killers. I'm really quite tired of having a killer live or die by their addons (see: Cenobite, yes I'm still salty about that).
Honestly, Spirit just needs a top-down Plague style rework.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
I'd be open to a Spirit buff provided they do something about facing her without Iron Will, which is still an incredibly frustrating experience imho.
Fix that then you can even gut IW for all I care, too.
Again, yeah. She needs a teardown rework. When I play her, the game feels almost entirely decided by what addons I bring versus which perks they bring, which isn't fun for anyone.
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@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
I love RPD. Don't get the hate for it from everyone else.
If you don't mind me asking - why?
What is it about the map you like?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but this is like hearing someone say they enjoy the occasional cat food pizza.
@Pizzasauce said:
Um...my least favorite, by far, most confusing, too-dark too see, impossible to-find-your-way-around map is the Silent Hill map. LOATH it.
Midwich?
When I first started, I struggled.
You just need to know the layout.
It's basically a big square. At two corners (diagonally) there are stairs. At the other two there are breakable walls to open passages up and down. There is a drop into the main square and a drop into the 'red room' on the upper floors.
As survivor, avoid running into the classrooms unless you know there is a safe vault or pallet in there. Don't do all the gens on one level first, this makes it very easy for me to pressure the other one. The central square is excellent for hiding and the red room is a decently strong loop if you have to break chase.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647655#Comment_2647655
I use Ruin, Pop, Tinkerer, Discord but Im thinking about trying Corrupt, No Way Out, Dead Lock, Pop
I'm not a fan of the Ruin+Pop combo. It feels like it helps me 'win more' in games where I'm already ahead but doesn't help me if I'm struggling. I'm starting to lean more towards Pop+Oppression if I want slowdown, or simple aggression.
NWO is okay, but you need to pair it with NOED for consistent results.
Nemesis thrives on information, especially early information. Discordance and Lethal Pursuer are excellent on him.
Deadlock...I ran it for awhile. It has the same problem as Thrilling Tremors, in that it can frequently backfire and result in a lot of gens being finished in quick succession later on.
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@Laluzi said:
Another thing you forgot to mention is that it's the epitome of Hold W gameplay. You can't cut off a survivor by moving in diagonals/more favorable routing between your distance and their location. You're all stuck with the same tight corridors.
And several killers just can't use their power in that map.
Edit: Literally just loaded into this map once I hit submit. Against a Billy.
Fortunately the only ranged killers I play are hybrids (PH, Nemesis, Plague) and I can only imagine how annoying playing Huntress would be in there.
It does seem to have been tweaked slightly, there was a 'House of Pain' style pseudo-infinite in the office that I haven't seen since the last big patch (could also just be confirmation) but woof, just too many safe pallets, vaults (especially the vaults into little cubicles with no other entrance on your side) and absurdly safe gens.
@dugman said:
I dislike some other maps more than RCPD personally. (I still hate 🌽🌽🌽🌽🌽 with a passion!) But RCPD is certainly the most confusing layout. The Game and Midwich and Lerys are relatively simple to get around in comparison.
I love Midwich. The place just oozes atmosphere, has some fun jumpscares and feels like a nice balance between survivors having chances to outplay me and vice versa. I am aware that it is slightly killer favored though, probably due to the ease of defending both exit gates.
The Game...if it wasn't for boons being an 'I-Win' button on that map (seriously, they shouldn't project through floors) I wouldn't mind it. Once I know where the stairs are, it's just a matter of unga-bungaing through a billion pallets.
Farm maps...depends. I really hate the corn though, yeah. Fortunately I run very info/stealth heavy builds, which can help and even sometimes make the corn backfire on the survivors.
No arguments here.
It feels like they went for perfect accuracy without considering the actual gameplay.
If I could veto a single map, it would be RPD. I'd rather lose on Haddonfield or Badham.
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@Anara said:
I loved playing Nemesis, he is fun.
But against high mmr survivors its a nightmare.
Against average survivors I had no problems getting tentacle hits and getting my mutation. Sometimes it was harder but it was possible.
I think I tryharded too much my Nemesis and I got matches that are too difficult for me.
Its almost only swf with BNP. But its not my main issue. The real problem is getting my mutation.
Against very good survivors its almost impossible for me. They are corner hugging so hard, they avoid vaults and pallets at all cost because they know I will tentacle them. They prefered to be downed by my M1 rather than allowing me getting my mutation.
And it is an effective play against Nemesis.
Im clearly not the best Nemesis and I only use my tentacle when they vault or pallet because Im too bad to hit them with my tentacle, they just avoid hits even if they are in the blue thing.
So how do you play Nemesis against these kind of survivors ?
Nemesis felt funny against average survivors, but now Im almost leaving him for Plague because im not effective enough and my mmr dont want to go down 😕
It's...tough. Especially against groups that know how to abuse the DH 'fake hit' tech (see: exploit) to negate his tentacle completely and prevent it breaking pallets.
The big issue is his zombies which can almost arbitrarily win or lose you games and he is very map dependent.
Otz really struggled to do his 'Nemesis streak' and that was before the DH thing.
His addons are also rather mediocre, with a few that feel almost entirely useless.
I play him on and off and I find that I need early pressure (LP), some sort of slowdown (Pop+Oppression or Ruin+Undying) and info info info (BBQ, Discordance, Tinkerer etc.).
If his addons were tweaked (I'd love a third zombie, for instance) he could be pretty fun though.
@GrayEyes said:
You don't it's that simple
Eh...he's not the worst. Wraith, Piggy and a few others are way worse than him. He can be pretty streaky though.
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@k0reant3a said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647423#Comment_2647423
i remember the devs saying they want to change the ‘meta’ why not nerf some survivor things I’m so sick of seeing dead hard i use it all the time when I play survivor it’s busted. No other exhaustion is near that maybe overcome when that comes out but that’s even more problematic
It's very difficult. So many things need a buff, some need a nerf, but the various interactions are so incredibly complex in terms of the 'meta' that even a small tweak can make something busted OP (Dead Hard) or suddenly non viable (Wraith, Slinger).
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@Beaburd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646879#Comment_2646879
The Dead Hard validation gives killers false positives for hits, similar to how pre-validation Dead Hard gave survivors false positives through exhaustion.
It's fine and dandy to say "it was just fixed, no preferential treatment was given." But while it was fixed in the sense of having the server make the call, it did shift the burden of false positives to the killer side.
On the subject of fixing issues, one could also mention that killers have been waiting for grab validation to be a thing since pallet hit validation. They've also been waiting years for the sound bug on downed survivors to get fixed.
So to be fair, it's understandable to have some thought of preferential treatment towards survivors overall and even in this case in some regard, even though the change itself was justifiable.
Regardless of semantics/technicalities - DH was one of the (if not the most) commonly selected perks for survivors. It was crazy strong despite the validation issues.
This 'fix' amounted to a buff.
Buffing something that is already strong creates a problem.
@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646800#Comment_2646800
If you paid 'attention' in stat class, you wouldn't miss out of factors, such as killers having more variables which increases the likelihood of changes being direct at killers over survivors.
As a killer, you have killer perks, you have a power and you have killer SPECIFIC addons.
Killers in the game have the most influence in how a game swings because the killer role literally demands the player to play around the specific killer they are running against - so why would the 'passive' side be nerfed more?
Nobody is saying 'nerf all survivors'.
We're saying:
- If the 'fake hit'/'power eat' issues of DH can't be fixed, then the perk needs to be adjusted to compensate. It was strong before the 'fix', now it's just silly.
- CoH forces about a third of the killer roster to build specifically around the potential for CoH, or risk getting hard-countered. For one perk out of 16 to have this much power is bad design.
- There are still infinites that have never been fixed (Haddonfield 'House of Pain' as an example) despite existing for years. Survivor players, even at intermediate levels, are starting to play around these. Since these would be easy to fix and have never been fixed, you can only assume that this is deliberately being left in. Why?
- The arms-race between the anti-loop tools of newer killers and the increasing ability of survivor players to abuse strong loops leaves older killers in the dust.
- The Cenobite, Wraith and Slinger nerfs should not have happened, and the fact that they did - without a corresponding buff to killers with low gross kill rates - suggests that BHVR are operating under a direct double standard.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/295516/bhvr-favoritism
They already showed this openly a long time ago during a Q&A just before the doctor rework.
They had reworked/changed a killer (can't remember who, sorry) where 1 of the devs said "now that we have changed this killer i started thinking. Who do i also hate to play against?"
That being the doctor and the announcement that they were gonna rework him.
After that comment of him i started to get worried even more for killers, and it definitely proved to be something to worry about.
But hey, the more survivors, the more money the make right? 😉
Mm. This is always my thought.
There are more survivors than killers, even factoring in the 4v1 nature of DbD.
It's also far easier to develop cosmetics/skins for survivors as you are only dealing with one 'rig'.
There is a direct financial interest in making the game enjoyable for survivors, even if that makes things unenjoyable for killers. And yes, this tinfoil hat is rather comfy.
@anarchy753 said:
My favourite part was:
"Oops, we added super overpowered perks, and didn't even check that the mechanic to snuff them actually worked, so we're making it work but YOU BETTER BE GODDAMN GRATEFUL WE BOTHERED TO EVEN TEMPORARILY FIX IT."
And taking Dead Hard, realising it had a server-based issue for survivors and going "well, let's just move all the issues to the killer players instead of fixing them. Done!"
Anyone who plays both sides knows Dead Hard is still as broken as it was before, except now it's the killer player that has to deal with the bugs, and apparently that's their idea of solving it.
Yeah this grinds my gears.
Dead Hard was a meta perk (honestly, the meta perk) before the 'fix'. See: buff. It was crazy strong despite it's validation quirks.
Now it's just oppressive. It constantly gives killers fake hits, which almost always results in a dropped chase AND it eats some killer powers due to the new validation. This is likely impossible to fix, as it's the old DH quirks, just now on the killer's side.
Their response?
'This is always how DH was supposed to function. It wasn't a buff'.
Wut.
@Beaburd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646853#Comment_2646853
Yeah, exactly.
It took me a few years to accept this direction in terms of balancing, but I do think fun is important for the reasons you stated and eventually just agreed with it.
---
Though, ironically, I would argue that tunneling and camping are becoming more common because of this balance direction and is counteracting their efforts in making games more fun and carefree.
I say that because I myself used to actively avoid tunneling and camping even when infinites were a thing in 2016, but now I advocate them as a killer to be as efficient as possible because of the time handicaps I feel subjected to lately.
Which is funny because you'd think I'd have been under more pressure when infinites were a thing and generators technically went faster. Maybe the skill level in players has just increased that much, or maybe I've just finally cracked under the pressure.
It's even more comical when you consider that when I get tunneled as a killer I still can't help but think to myself "oh a crappy tunnel killer" even though I do the same and understand very well why some would do it.
Thinking on it I'm actually really curious what, if anything, they'll do about camping and tunneling in the future. They'd have to throw killers a bone somehow to relieve the in-game pressure that's on them that motivates them to do it in the first place.
Or maybe they'll just leave it alone and hope everyone gets used to it.
You only need to watch Otz's 'streak' videos to see this.
If you don't slug and proxy-camp, you are going to be stomped and teabagged all the way to the exit gates.
The only way to be consistent as a killer at high MMR is to engage in tactics that are considered 'toxic'.
That's not healthy.
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@MrsMaliciousX said:
Idk I really don't have a problem with boons, ive been trying to play more killer, but at the same time you win some you lose some. But the amount of camping and tunneling I get in survivor matches is UNREAL, not to mention this "hit validation" ya its a joke. I throw a pallet, killer breaks it then swings and I get downed, ya no thanks, but stuff like that doesn't happen when I play killer.
Every side is gonna have problems no matter what, no one is ever going to be happy. I guess just take the game with a grain of salt, I JUST got back from a 6 month break. It was refreshing to play something else, and I have actually been SORTA having a fun time again, this isn't a game you can just play every single day.
You gotta take breaks, I see where you're coming from tho, But survivors did get nerfed to the ground the past 2 years. So Im not sure what they are trying to do.
This is pure whataboutism.
The problem with boons (well, with CoH) is that a team playing around it hard-counters attrition based killers. One perk can make about a third of the roster much weaker. That's ridiculous.
Then take the situation where a killer takes 10 seconds to locate and snuff a boon (that's being generous, on some maps they are much harder to find). It takes barely longer to rebless it. There are 4 survivors and 1 killer - thus it's the equivalent of wasting 40 seconds of killer time.
Boons just weren't a good idea.
@Drag0n100 said:
Before I even start this, I'm calling out all the people that will read this and respond "ur just salty cuz ur bad lol." See, you aren't original, I did it first so you can just chill with all that.
I was having a conversation with a buddy of mine the other day about why it always seems like Killers get the short end of the stick. Yeah Survivors are constantly complaining about it, but playing Killer genuinely feels harder and harder to do ( we each play both roles 50/50). We determined that while Survivors (who outnumber the Killer and therefore shouldn't be getting as many 2nd chances) are getting more and more second chance perks, Killers are constantly forced to play at their best or risk immediate loss.
We statistically analyzed the past several updates, patches, and bugfixes, and what we found was honestly revolting. BHVR simply doesnt want you to play Killer. After running these numbers, it was immediately obvious to us that BHVR simply prefers the Survivors over the Killers, and aren't ashamed of showing it.
Now we're not sure if this is because the Dev Team is made up of more Survivor players than Killers (this is true, we checked the gameplay of as many Devs that stream the game as we could find), but it's a glaring hole in the blind balancing that a dev team should maintain in a multiplayer game of two distinct sides.
When you as the developers select a favorite, it will influence game balance and overall game health, even if unbeknownst to you. Think about the biggest things that were recently added or changed and you'll see exactly what we're talking about.
The Developers added Boon totems, a new perk type that is supposedly "shaking the meta." But the laughable over-poweredness of these Boons is staggering, which even my most Survivor-mainiest friends agree upon. And what was Killer given to combat these new perks that will continue to be produced? A nerf to Thrill Of The Hunt, an already underperforming perk.
The Developers adjusted the hit validation, specifically preventing hits through pallets and enforcing Dead Hards. Now i'm all for making sure that things work as intended, but Killer players will tell you immediately that almost half their hits result in them getting "dedicated" (a term used to mean getting screwed over by the dedicated servers). Survivors can Dead Hard at killers to consume their Killer powers and drop pallets on killers heads, all while running away scott-free as the killers are told their hit connected and are given a scream and blood to wipe. And what did Killers get to ensure the playing field remained fair? Tea-bagged at the exit gate. (Though how bullying is being treated as part of the gameplay at this point is a conversation for another day).
There are so many other examples, but I'm just going to end it here. The long and short of it is this:
BHVR if you somehow read this, whether you know it or not, you have statistically proven to Killer players that it's you against them. You try to win them back over each time you hurt them with a flashy new chapter, but you are hurting the health of your game, and alienating half of your player base. Survivors have 4 players to a Killer's 1, so they should NOT be given as much power as they have, let alone more power than the Killer does. I do not think Killers should 4K every game, that's not my point. But I, personally, have noticed more and more Killer players uninstalling the game, or playing Survivor instead, and if BHVR wants to keep this game alive for as long as possible, they either need to rid themselves of this bias, or idk, maybe hire more Killer players or something.
(or hire me, I'm in the market for a job I suppose).
Please leave me some feedback, or just simply upvote if you think any of these points are valid. Maybe we can get BHVR to see it and try to make a positive change!
~~Also pay attention in Stats class, I wouldn't be able to spout this balance knowledge without it!~~
<3
Want to be really depressed?
Consider this:
BHVR recently nerfed Wraith (and Slinger, but that's a different discussion). Their reasons? He was too difficult for newer survivors to deal with at their MMR and 'too easy to do well with'. Cenobite just had most of his addons nerfed to PH/Freddy tier for the same reason. Wraith and Cenobite were 'B' tier killers at best at high MMRs - you only need to watch Otz trying to do his Cenobite 'streak' right now to see that Cenobite actually needs a buff. He never managed it on Wraith before the nerf.
They are balancing based on gross kill rates. They've said before that they don't balance based on high MMR games.
Okay, fine.
However some killers (Nurse, as an example) have abysmal, meme-worthy kill rates. They are too hard to do well with, and too easy for newer survivors to deal with at their MMR.
So - by this logic, Nurse needs to be changed to be easier to do well with, right?
Wrong.
BHVR stated that Nurse wouldn't get any changes with the implication that she'd be too strong at high MMR.
What this means is that they are operating with a direct double standard. If a killer is too good at low MMR, they'll nerf it - regardless of how this impacts the killer at high MMR. However, if a killer is really bad at low MMR - they won't buff it, in fear of breaking high MMR games.
It's stuff like this that makes people go 'BHVR are survivor biased'.
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@BaschFonRonsenburg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647308#Comment_2647308
Don’t leave legion out of this lmao. Not to mention the only viable killers in tournament ignore core game mechanics. At the top level of play. You literally have no not play as intended to win. As seen in Hexys BOTB tournament, tunneling, camping with nurse and spirit are your only options at the top level of play. That isn’t fun for any player, killer or survivor.
Tourneys are weird because they often have entirely different rulesets. I'll admit that I haven't seen a ton recently - but if I recall, certain maps, addons, perks and killers are banned.
@XLbuff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647308#Comment_2647308
This game never was and never will be balanced. Because of this, I've never understood why some players take this game too seriously. I would like fun game at least. Fun is subjective, but in my opinion holding W is not fun.
Fun to me is when I feel like both sides have an equal chance to win, regardless of skill level. This is what SBMM is trying to do, but it's really difficult.
@RaSavage42 said:
The shake up is when a streamer or two (or three) come up with what's the best (minus the 6-7 "meta" perks) on both sides
Or not directly Buffing/Nerfing perks but changing Maps, Spawns (Survivors, Killer, Totems, Gens and Tiles), Gen Regression
I do have a few ideas to get the ball rolling... but I'll keep that in mind (Unless someone asks for them)
If I was in charge of balancing the game:
Rework maps.
This is the biggest problem right now, imho. About half the maps are at least moderately 'survivor favored' and there are several tiles that are just too strong vs killers without good anti-loop tools (House of Pain on Badham/Haddonfield, the 'barge' infinite on Swamp, certain spawns on Gas Heaven etc.). There are also a few (DDS) that need to be easier for survivors.
The reason that a lot of killers are considered 'good' often comes down to their ability to shut down these loops and/or traverse large maps easier.
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@kingsparda97 said:
We all know by now that DBD MM isn't the best, but ever since they added MMR it seems like all u get matched up with is ppl with barley a 100hrs on the game. I swf with my bf and even with both of us carrying the team it's still not enough due to our teammates being newer players. How has your MMR experience been so far?
My experiences have been...weird.
What I think happens a lot right now:
- Killer queues are lightning fast. If I'm waiting for a minute on offpeak hours, that's a long time.
- Survivor queues can be really long.
- Survivors may end up with quite different skill levels in their groups because of this - the system starts expanding search parameters.
- If a killer dodges a lobby, the system grabs the next killer in-line with significantly relaxed parameters. This is where you get the really one-sided games.
@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647313#Comment_2647313
Not sure how you thought I was referencing you and not OP.
But, after reading your post I'd say old system was just as bad. Smurfs were everywhere.
The problem with this game is everyone thinks it's competitive, instead of a party game. And the comp scene doesn't help.
The old system was a million times worse.
After a while, red rank survivors complained bitterly about their admittedly ridiculous queue times. BHVR compensated by removing all killer matchmaking protections.
I started right after they did this and it was a bloody nightmare. A killer with less than 10 hours up against full SWFs with 7000 hours between them, who would stomp me and then tell me to uninstall in postgame.
SBMM has it's quirks, but it's just so much better.
@noctis129 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647229#Comment_2647229
Well.. I'm saying the game is lop sided. Either killer gets bullied, or the killer annihilates scrub Survivors. And the lop sidedness is extreme.
Putting a 1000 hour survivor w a 100 hour survivor needs to stop.
That's what I'm saying.
I see this a fair bit. It has to do with the sheer imbalance of people playing survivors vs. killer. Survivor is a far more relaxing experience and is thus more appealing. I know that I'll sometimes switch over when I'm having a particularly frustrating session.
If the system was to wait and match you more accurately, a lot of people would be waiting for ages.
@noctis129 said:
Idk what it is. I felt like it worked for the first few games when SBM first went live.
I was surprised I wasn't carrying the team anymore, and gens were popping fast. However we annihilated the killer.
After a day or so. Now I'm stuck w scrubs and we all end up dying.
I saw a ally player w 8 hours. At that moment, I felt like I didn't want to play DBD anymore.
I'm back to carrying my team and end up dead trying to save the noobs.
90% of my games I have the most points. The other 10% is when I get tunneled and/or camped.
Please don't tell me I'm playing w scrubs becuz the game thinks I'm a scrub. This game MMR is broke. And we all know it.
What's worst is they got rid of the hatch. I really don't care no more. I just play and die.
I saw my wife play who only has a few hours in, and she was playing against the pig w 4000 plus hour. The pig brought OP add ons ready for a sweaty game. Once it was realized Survivors were scrubs, she let everyone go. This game was prime example of extreme lop sided match.
I wish I would of saved that game. But it was on the Xbox and Xbox video recording mechanism is broken.
We need to bring back the old ranking system. The devs can keep their puny points they're giving out now.
No.
Ranks were just too easy to smurf and red-rank survivors end up with silly queue times and killers end up suffering when BHVR inevitably removes matchmaking protections for killers again.
SBMM has it's quirks, but it's so much better.
@RaingerPlaysDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/295528/mmr-is-broken
It's functioning as intended. It's just poorly designed, so your experience is poor. Additionally it should be taken into account that Dead By Daylight is an A-Sym game, and there haven't been really any mainstream A-Symm games with massive success like DBD so It's not too big of a shock that the MMR isn't great.
My MMR experience is that it's lackluster.
For Killer; Characters I enjoy, I drop quickly because I tend to play pretty well and then it becomes a stressful competition. It isn't "slash the Survivors" anymore, it becomes very much a time trial. If my scheduling in a match is off and I'm not exactly where I need to be, I suffer heavily as Killer and it's very disheartening.
For Survivor; I consider myself a hardcore veteran and only really get razzed if I were to face back to back to back amazing Nurses who remove all my skill (once you hit that level, It just becomes a game of hoping they make a mistake). So MMR isn't really that much different. Been running No Mither every round for about 4 weeks, and matches are no different or even better (IE Survivors are strong at high Elo).
I find that, when I reach this point, I need to start easing up. I mostly like playing around with funky perks/addons, and playing ultra-sweaty isn't my idea of fun.
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@Meg_Survivor said:
Sometimes during the game i do see most not all give hatch to at least one survivor at the end of the game, sometimes it happens if they see most of there team DC, or most times they just stop mid game and start Farming, <<< this esp has happend to me in alot of pig games, ghost face, trickster, Freddy, ect . So my question is what has to be the reason u mainly give that last survivor hatch? and not gone lie sometimes they give hatch to the wrong survivor, like someone who hides all game and never get caught - ive had that happen plenty of times as well
If you dont give hatch at all then this discussion is not for you lol .-. I know its alot of killers who would say "why would i give hatch to a survivor"
I do it quite frequently.
If a really good survivor has had a potato team, I'll try to give them hatch or gates.
If a team has been particularly enjoyable to play against and (more importantly) hasn't teabagged or flicked me, I'll sometimes even let two go.
If I get a sense that I'm against an SWF just trying to have fun, I'll attempt to play the same way. If I can, I'll let you go on two hooks.
@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647217#Comment_2647217
happens super rarely but I tried to once and the killer carried me to the gate.
I do it a fair bit.
What determines it is:
- How much fun did I have? If you've given me a really great game without using cheeseball loops/annoying offerings etc. I'll probably try to let 2 of you go on 2 hooks if I can manage it.
- If any member of your team has been BM/abused pseudo-infinites excessively/brought an offering for RPD, Badham, Haddonfield or further hooks - no mercy for any of you.
However:
@Tsulan said:
Counterquestion:
How often do you see survivors give free kills when the game is about to end with a 0k?
This.
It's happened once - and that was an incredibly BM SWF smurfcomp just out to make the killer miserable. I think one of them felt bad at the conduct of his mates.
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@XLbuff said:
It seems safe to say that BHVR decided to make anti-loop killers frequently. Boon totems and Overcome is "just run away" (and heal) type of perks already. It feels like devs want to make this game less fun for both sides (yes, even more than usual). Among other questionable decisions this disappoints me the most.
BHVR have an impossible task balance wise.
SWF vs. solo is hard enough to balance in a way that is fun for killers, solos and SWFs.
Then you watch some very high level gameplay, where survivors know how to abuse pseudo-infinites and safe pallet loops - and killers without anti-loop can barely get hooks.
Anti-loop 'skillshot' killers seem to be their answer - which essentially encapsulates almost all the new killers after Blight. I don't like this, as it turns the entire game into an arms race between looping and anti-loop tools, and leaves more traditional killers (Wraith, Pig etc.) in the dust.
The solution...I have no idea. It's going to take a complete shake-up of the meta for survivors and killers.
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@shitman said:
When they tell me that the game is not for me, I really want to delete the game. I came to the game to have fun and I get so much ######### addressed to me.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646149#Comment_2646149
Yeah, turn off post-game. If it's really getting to you that much, you'll be happier with it off.
I've had some...really awful people in postgame before.
It's not the sore losers that annoy me - I understand.
It's the 'GG EZ uninstall scrub' gloaters that get to me.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646661#Comment_2646661
Actually killers don't lose BP when survivors heal, it's just one of their emblems loses some points
You actually slowly gain deviousness BP from survivors who stay injured, that's why when they heal - you get a score event in the top right that says 'bleeding'
Huh.
I...learned something today.
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@Brokenbones said:
From my POV the killers who get the least amount of points overall are typically ones that suffer in the deviousness category, those would be:
- Oni - blood orbs and dashing barely give you that much and using your power only gives you like 250. Hitting people WITH your power only gives you brutality points I'm pretty sure
- Legion - Feral Frenzy's deviousness output is pathetic - you get a small amount for using frenzy and 250 for inflicting deep wound on someone. To put this into perspective: In order to get 8k deviousness with legion on just feral frenzy hits you would need to hit survivors THIRTY TWO TIMES. Obviously you get bonus in deviousness for other things like hatch closing and nobody escaping but yeah
- Myers - You get points for stalking and tiering up. That's it. No points for downs using T3 or grabs in T1 or anything like that. Outdated as heck
- Pig - Assuming you set all 4 traps, that's 2000 BP in deviousness now the rest relies on you either doing other things or landing a bunch of ambush hits which can be quite tricky
Yeah, Pig has always been a killer I'm reluctant to play for this exact reason.
@bjorksnas said:
It all depends on the killer and the power
chainsaw killers usually get less brutality bp when they get 8k devious
Nurse and plauge are pretty much get bread crumbs for deviousness points, with nurse getting 250 on a successful hit or 150 when you start a chase with a blink, while plague gets 200 for m1ing a fully infected survivor or 300 for hitting a survivor with corrupt purge, the only way to really reach 8k with them is to get 5.5k and have a 4k
Oni takes a while to max out deviousness but a few power hits and he is already maxed out on brutality
And then other killers like blight and demo are just thrown handful after handful of bp, demo gets 800 bp per shred and blight gets 300 bp per hit, 500bp on a down, 50 bp on every rush, 25 bp per second spent rushing (you get the idea)
I think that Bubba and co do quite well in Brut because people can't heal as much vs them. I have no idea why killers actually lose BP when survivors heal.
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@botrax said:
Power play a massive role in BP gain that why some of the best farmer are doctor and legion.
Before we had BP event and during those period survivor could face only doctor during those week end and this was old doctor so he was a nightmare to play not because he was bad but because he had 2 stance he was really a hard killer to use.
Doctor!
Damn, I'd forgotten him. Yeah, always rolling in the...blood (??) with him.
Really need to dust him off. Haven't played him for weeks.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646575#Comment_2646575
DH is behaving as it should. You click DH and you shouldn't be hurt while its active. That's its only job. It will never be changed farther.
Yes.
But consider this.
Before the 'fix', DH had it's quirks - in that sometimes you'd get a wonky moment where it should have worked, but didn't.
It was still one of the most powerful, most meta perks in the game. I'd guess that it was the most popular survivor perk.
Now, that quirk has been fixed. DH is guaranteed to work 100% of the time.
This amounts to a buff to an already very strong perk.
The big problem comes in when this 'invulnerability' is validated not on the killers end, and provides fake hits/incorrect power cooldowns/failures (Nemmy failing to break pallets on DH use is a 'tech' I'm seeing more and more often now from survivors). It's just the old problem in reverse - except that now, a strong perk has been buffed, and buffed again.
There is probably *no way* to fix this, anymore than the original problem could be 'fixed' at BHVRs end without changing the validation.
DH is probably going to have to be nerfed.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646557#Comment_2646557
DH used to make you have invulnerability frames. I believe its now just a normal dash but validation is there to make sure to sort it out. It would be hard for the server to check invulnerability frames with server desync, lag and just bad internet as factors. This was a much easier fix and the sound bug was a bug with the sound. Not something that they did on purpose. You cannot compare a bug to something that they added in on purpose. They'll figure a way to make the sound match but it'll take a bit. Maybe next patch. Invulnerability frames use to be you became hollow. Now it just ignores the damage.
Tomato tomahto.
It functions much the same.
I honestly believe that the bug is what happens when you validate DH on a different end, and thus cannot be fixed.
DH is going to have to get adjusted.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
It shows on my screen I hit them there’s blood and a scream. But, no according to the devs with their extremely fair hit validation. I’ve lost a game because two hits were rolled backed.
Yeah.
Whatever 'fix' was introduced for DH, it amounted to a buff. It was a meta perk before this 'fix'. Now it's pure, deep fried hell.
@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646431#Comment_2646431
again, dead hard now is working as used to before servers. so now since you have validation u dont get exhausted on the ground that often as before... the perk is just working as intended.
No, it isn't. When it constantly lets people auto-escape from chases because it told you you'd downed them, it's bugged.
When it puts killer powers on cooldown without them going off, it's bugged.
That said:
@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646491#Comment_2646491
Definitely will. They just have to find a way to do it without screwing it up. They can't just activate the scream at the end of the hit for DH because it would make it sound weird with normal hits sounding delayed for the server to catch up but its very possible. Just might take a little bit.
The 'silent survivor' bug has been here since...honestly before I can remember. This fake hit bug is so annoying that if they could fix it, they probably would have.
When bugs that can outright change the outcome of the game exist, without being fixed, for any length of time - then the game needs to be balanced accordingly.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
The Spirit deserved every bit of nerf handed to her, and so she's not as cheap to use as before (why it took a year for them to fix her, i don't know). However, her addons are still disgustingly overpowered in my opinion. A common addon combo I encounter from Spirit players at reasonably high MMR is the purple amulet and ring (25% speed increase with 3.5s longer phase) and purple cherry blossom with the ring (40% speed increase with killer instinct triggering at 4m).
With the latter, it is pretty much impossible to escape from a chase when she can just phase for a few seconds and catch up to you, and you'll definitely be nowhere near a pallet. Retracing steps to mindgame scratchmarks won't even matter, and walking/crouching is just silly as the Spirit moves 4 and 5 times greater with the ring respectively, thus killer's instinct would instantly trigger anyway (4m is a pretty big deal).
What do you think? Her basekit seems fine and fair now, no more easy 4ks with minimal effort, but these addons... they pretty much negate the nerf to her. Here's a video representing what I'm saying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwETFQiAeHw
p.s. I strongly believe the devs should change the difficulty label on her, she is most definitely not "hard" to play when compared to blight and nurse. maybe intermediate if I'm generous.
No.
Spirit is now solidly 'A' tier, which should be the balance target for all killers imho.
Iri and UR addons should be powerful. Far too many killers have addons that are useless or worse.
It may sound whatabouty, but with how long it took BHVR to buff Trapper or nerf OoO, I'm not especially sympathetic to 'it took too long to nerf x killer' arguments.
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@playhard said:
Definitely after midnite game SBBM is terribel and not working for killer. I almost get lost on 5 consecutive match but always match with skilled and experience survivor.
This game no fun for killer after midnite. You basically try to learn /adept one killer but you always get a SWF and experience survivor with a good team work. Damn fix this
It's not just midnight. Sometimes SBMM seems to be offline.
@dugman said:
If you play at off hours you might be running into a situation where the system is deciding it has to give you whatever open matches it can find in order to not have you waiting forever for a closer match.
When I start getting the Kafka matchmaking, it's usually accompanied by instant queues. Either that, or there are a lot of killers dodging games and I'll getting dragged into one nightmare lobby after the next.