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@Huge_Bush said:
As long as sweaty SWF swat squads exist, so to should current Nurse. She shouldn't be touched until Behaviour decides to nerf both at the same time and not before.
I agree, although I don't play Nurse myself.
But the other side to this is that there isn't a way to nerf SWF squads in any meaningful way without also nerfing solo survivors into the ground completely. Making solos too weak to compete isn't a good solution, so a ridiculously overpowered killer that takes incredible amounts of skill to use effectively might just be the best solution.
Nurse has a 40% kill rate, lower than any other killer. No other talking point should be needed when responding to a thread like this tbh.
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3044070#Comment_3044070
Yup. It feels like it's a perk made for a different version of the game, one where map tiles are actually balanced. Most tiles right now are built in a way to where they're really strong while the pallet is up but weak once it's broken, with almost no mind game potential. So your options as killer are to either break it immediately or bloodlust until you hit them, at which point they're down and you can just break the pallet anyways. So it makes the perk have 0 value.
Damn. I was not aware of this, either. I thought it might be good on Legion, but it's not even usable if survivors get notified.
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@AnneBonny said:
with the upcoming ptb changes, endurance bodyblocking is going to be a lot more common, and that means forced penance can proc much more often. with stbfl and the lowered base hit cooldown on top of that, i'm betting bodyblocking won't be as strong as it used to be.
It's already a good perk. I just won a game because of it. Survivors don't ever seem to expect it, and it hard counters a lot of bully squad strategies. I got like three extra hooks out of it, plus some survivors were too scared to bodyblock once they realized I was running it.
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@bunnybydaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3041017#Comment_3041017
the most useless killer on earth only used by basement bubba players. it now only benefits people who can get to and from 24m quickly or indirectly camp basement. (hag, demo, trapper, dredge, nurse etc)
ive said this before but none of the killer 'nerfs' changed my killer builds, but my survivor builds will barely survive the update which is somehow supposed to be the point. bhvrs priorities are wacked out.
Kill rates are too low. That's the reasoning behind it. At high MMR, survivors will win almost every single time. Streamers have managed to get almost 400 escapes in a row. So they want things to be harder for survivors, and I'm sure that CoH didn't help. Whether or not they actually accomplished this is up for debate.
Survivors actually got a massive anti-tunneling buff. BT is now basekit with a slightly shorter timeout, BT itself was buffed, and OTR makes both obsolete by being the most broken survivor perk by several miles, maybe even moreso than DH.
Dead Hard is still almost as useful as it was. It's still OP, just not as much as it was (OTR is taking its spot in that department).
I don't know what kind of killer builds you're using, but mine are all going to have to change, with very few exceptions. Ruin didn't get the slap-on-the-wrist treatment the way CoH and DH did; it was gutted completely to the point of uselessness. NOED is now useless. Pop is an order of magnitude weaker. Corrupt is now useless. Sure, a lot of survivor perks were gutted, but killers didn't get to keep any useful perks aside from the ones that were released to recently to justify a nerf (Deadlock, CoB, and Merciless are still viable).
So... whatever. Complainers gonna complain. I hope that you are right, and killers get a massive buff with all their basekit changes.
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@Akumakaji said:
Here is a wild Trapper idea: what if all his traps start the trial automatically primed AND in somewhat favorable spots like in front of windows, around corners or patches of gras etc. and disarming them had a skill check involved or you get trapped and wounded.
This would do it. Trapper's main issue is his abysmal early game. If you could start chases right off the bat and not have to run Corrupt, it'd bump him up a few tiers.
Although I do find it somewhat poetic that the iconic face of DBD is actually the least viable killer in the game.
@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3041205#Comment_3041205
The Kill Rates don't mean anything without numbers or an actual average amount of kills per match. That would mean something but the difference between 55% and 52% is uhh............ Literally nothing?
It probably also depends on MMR. I would bet that Nurse has something like a 20% kill rate at low level, and like an 80% kill rate at higher MMR.
Some of the stuff on the list really isn't surprising, though. Certain killers are much stronger than the pseudo-meta myths around here give them credit for.
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@Sheridan_LT said:
It would be really nice if more skill-based play was added to these Killers while making them more powerful. Make Trapper's traps visually blend into the ground color of any daytime map better, let bear traps put Survivors into the dying state. Let him step over bear traps like he does with windows, make stepping into your own bear trap not drop carried Survivors.
For Clown, make the antidote cloud work faster and only for him. Let him boobytrap a generator, window or pallet with his tonic but with a stronger effect. Give him an addon that lets the map start out with some boobytrapped Totems and Generators, give him Killer Instinct whenever a Survivor gets affected by his gas clouds. Give him something to make him decent, anything.
Trapper's traps resetting every 30 seconds should become basekit. That's all he really needs.
Sadako needs her lullaby removed and the rate of Condemned increasing by a more reasonable amount, although I'll admit that I've been getting a lot more Moris with her that way lately since survivors seem to no longer view Condemned as a threat (because it isn't if they're paying attention). Alternatively, keep it the way it is, but survivors should become Exposed when Condemned reaches maximum.
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@gatsby said:
Both Killers are way too strong with their pink addons. And everyone runs the crazy addons.
They're weak Killers at base kit, but that's why no one ever runs them base kit.
Does anyone run any killers "base kit"? I assume that means "without add-ons".
I never run Pinky Finger with Clown. I much prefer extra bottles, bigger clouds, and an extra 4% Hindered when I'm trying to win. When I'm just clowning around (see what I did there? God, I'm hilarious), I'll run the add-ons that see me auras while invigorated plus another invigoration add-on with something like STBFL/NOED/Rancor/PWYF.
Fragrant Tuft on Mikey makes him an A-tier killer (S-tier if you're running it with Bamboozle and Coup de Grace), in my opinion, but Judith's Tombstone is completely useless. Most of his add-ons are garbage, honestly, but a few are completely busted, in particular Tombstone Piece (the only one that ever really gets talked about; it's somewhat overrated), Dead Rabbit (when combined with M&A) and Vanity Mirror (if run with Dead Rabbit and M&A). Scratched Mirror is overrated IMO, but it can see some use. If it stacks with the new Lethal Pursuer buff, it'll become an A-tier build.
Clown's add-ons (with the exception of Pink Finger) don't add or subtract much from his overall gameplay. Myers, on the other hand, can go from a D-tier killer at basekit with no perks to an S-tier with the right build, so he's completely dependent on his addons.
@MikeyBoi said:
If anyones ever tried to use red heads pinky finger against good survivors who constantly juke it’s actually very difficult to land a point blank bottle on those survivors, the only value you truly get with that add on is camping hooks, and then your just a leatherface at that point.. Infinite T3 myers is awful against survivors who thrive off staying injured and just use DH and vault build: iron will you’re then just an m1 killer with a tiny increase in lunge and vault speed…that’s it and that’s if you can make that add on work before all 5 gens get popped :)
You absolutely have to run Tuft with a green stalk addon, or else you're not going to get it in a reasonable amount of time, but Bambooze and Coup de Grace (as I mentioned just above) solve the problems you mentioned. Coup de Grace can deny Dead Hard completely if you're running in a straight line, and you can screw up their timing and stab people around corners before they know to use Dead Hard if they're looping. Bamboozle synergizes with T3's vault speed boost and ends chases quickly. Even good survivors won't last against that build unless they get all the gens done ASAP. Once you've popped T3, everybody's going down.
Agree about Pink Finger, though. It seems like every other bottle I throw hits survivors directly when I'm not trying, but I couldn't do it on purpose to save my life.
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@RisingTron said:
IT, based off of IT: Chapter 2, with the adult versions of the Loser's club.
Pennywise as the killer. With an ultra-rare skin that transforms him into the OG Tim Curry Pennywise
Bill Denbrough and Beverly Marsh as the survivors.
With legendary skins for Ben, Eddie, Richie, and Mike. Yes that's a lot of legendary skins on one character, but yes, I would buy all of them in a heartbeat. (And since it's based off the adult versions I left out Stanley...since...you know.)
And I'd love a map that's the sewer system beneath the town.
And this a random one, that I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't care for. But Coraline.
The Other Mother would be a sick killer and she has a dope design.
https://imgix.ranker.com/list_img_v2/1560/3061560/original/3061560?w=817&h=427&fm=jpg&q=50&fit=crop
And they could give us an adult version of Coraline. But I wouldn't be against it just being a paragraph with only The Other Mother as the killer and no survivor.
Coraline was one of my favorite books as a kid, and I loved the movie, too. I'd go for it.
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@Firellius said:
There's, what, six baseline killer buffs? Out of the three slowdown perks that were nerfed, one wasn't nerfed in its slowdown. There's 5 slowdown perks that were buffed, some getting really strong buffs.
Outside of the OTR #########-up, the patch is overwhelmingly in favour of killers. Yet here we are, with more 'Do what I want or I'll camp!'. Camping didn't even get addressed, despite being the absolute biggest balancing problem.
I do think that OP is being a bit dramatic, but he has a couple of points. About the buffs/nerfs, not the facecamping.
I think I got more out of a Ruin/Undying combo or even just Pop on its own than an extra ten seconds per gen. That, like the 10% boost to a couple of killer actions, is pretty underwhelming.
OTR on its own could cause kill rates to plummet even if we got an extra 20 seconds on every gen and a 20% increase to those killer actions. I get that people don't like getting tunneled, but it's one of the most reliable ways to win if you're up against a good team (unlike facecamping, which is never a good strategy), and this will eliminate it as a strategy almost entirely. I don't know why they would claim to have a problem with Dead Hard's 75% pick rate and then introduce a perk that's bound to be just as popular.
BT was buffed (although no one is going to run it now that OTR is a thing), and Dead Hard is more manageable, but it's still an on-demand invincibility perk that gives a speed boost when used successfully. And I still see CoH multiple times every game, because it was never actually functionally nerfed (nobody uses Shattered Hope because it doesn't actually do much against boon totems and is a waste of a perk slot).
Kill rates will probably go down slightly unless they nerf OTR into the ground, at the very least.
My guess is that they'll see that in the PTB, "nerf" OTR from 80 to 60 seconds or something and call it good, and then gradually roll out more balancing changes over the course of the next year once they see the numbers, but always play it extremely safe.
We'll see. I do hope I'm wrong.
@VonCrow said:
Tunneling is quite necessary on high mmr due to how fast gens are.
Camping is quite good in the same mmr as players tend to be too much altruistic (also if they are premade they don't let his friend die).
So both strategies are already quite effective and sometimes necessary. However, survivors have plenty of tools to avoid it (specially body block which is the most nasty mechanic in the game after dead hard).
Also is quite satisfying to tunnel/camp a tbagger or a clicker so...that will still happen no matter the changes (although off the record might be a problem).
If you're up against a 4-man SWF, sometimes those are way too altrustic for their own good, but facecamping as the OP describes is still very bad. A team that's actually good will do gens while Dwight has a staring contest with Bubba through both hook stages, and four gens will be done by the time Dwight's dead.
So-called proxy camping works well sometimes in combination with tunneling. Hook someone, go chase someone for a second or kick a gen, and swing back around just as survivor is getting unhooked.
@ArchAbhor said:
This patch was a buff to killers as a whole. In fact I would say they didnt do enough to punish exactly what you're talking about.
Facecamping punishes itself. If OP thinks he's going to average more than 1.5K a game with that as his main strategy, he's about to be even madder than he already is.
@Nos37 said:
I do foresee killers equipping Save the Best for Last to help them deal with the many ways survivors can gain endurance.
It makes survivor builds like these more appealing if Save the Best for Last does become common:
- Empathy
- Circle of Healing
- Botany Knowledge
- (Obsession perk) Decisive Strike, Mettle of Man, etc. (For the People, maybe, but it clashes with CoH)
If you're the obsession, keep bodyblocking and healing to drain the killer's STBFL stacks.
If killers see too many bodyblocking obsessions, then maybe Forced Penance will get more value.
I get a lot out of Forced Penance as it is. Survivors don't ever seem to expect it.
@Viridyan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026972#Comment_3026972
You used the pinnacle of the DBD player base as an example. You're expecting a noob to play like that? Get real. By that logic, Wraith should have never been nerfed for stomping noobs. Maybe those survivors should've just been good to begin with. What do you say to all the people crying about Nurse? Do you post a YT link of a Nurse losing with 0 sacrifices just to say "See, she's not OP." Literally ROFL.
When I first started playing the game, as survivor, I'd always feel relieved when I saw a Nurse.
"Oh, good, it's Nurse. We're in for a relaxing game."
@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027643#Comment_3027643
Deadlock is a weak perk. It’s mind blowing you think that good killers play this. There are so many better options.
Any decent survivor will start repairing another gen. Blocked gens don’t regress.
Strongly disagree. It's a great choice when you only have a single perk slot for slowdown and need it to be passive, and it does awesome things against genrush teams that spread out and work on four different generators at the beginning of the match. Deadlock/Merciless rivals the Ruin/Undying combo because it's more reliable and can't be turned off.
There are better options if you're willing to run around the map kicking gens instead of engaging in chase (or if your killer can teleport), but Deadlock has its uses.
@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026743#Comment_3026743
Honestly I wouldn't call Otr a mistake. If you don't tunnel it won't effect you. The only part I think needs changed is it still being active during end game.
Yeah, but they said their goal is to increase kill rates, and getting rid of tunneling is an awesome way to do the exact opposite. Not all of us play Blight or Nurse every game.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026553#Comment_3026553
Then tell me all magical one. How do I stop them from constantly hiding near pallets with flashlights? What skill should I master for that? I’ve done mindgames and blocked loops with certain killers. Yet it seems to me that the only effective way is to use a single perk or to stare at the sky like a turkey.
Lightborn. You master it by putting it in your loadout at the beginning of the game when you see three Neas with flashlights and skull masks in the lobby, and it gives you free hits all game.
Alternatively, try the following:
Learn to stare at walls or at least away from open areas when picking up a survivor. Learn to avoid the flashlight when carrying. There's a small window where you can't avoid being blinded if they hit you directly at just the right angle, but everything beyond that is in your power, and you can avoid being blinded during that window by looking around for people before you pick a survivor up off the ground.
If someone is following you around with a flashlight, be sure and smack them before picking up a downed survivor. If it's especially bad, slug a couple of people first.
If you can't hear the survivors moving because of the flashlight sound, that's because the survivor is not moving. He is still standing a meter away from you and wasting his flashlight battery. When he stops, you will be able to hear him moving around. It's easy once you practice a little.
Remember that you can set down survivors if you think you don't have a chance to make it to the hook, and if you're really getting your ass beat by a bully squad, feel free to just slugging, facecamping, and just generally making life miserable for your opponents. They'll enjoy the game much less. I had a game earlier today where they just spent all game following me around (all four of them) ignoring gens and just going for saves. They took turns on the ground as my pet slug for fifteen minutes while one of them finished all the gens in the background. I only got a 1K, but I'm sure I frustrated them some. (I probably could have done better if I'd tried, but I threw the game doing that instead.)
As others have said, the more of them that are going for flashlight saves, the less of them are doing gens. Pallet camping is in your favor, because it wastes pallets, and they waste time blinding you when they should be running away. Pretty soon, all the pallets are gone, and so is their entire squad.
Also, Franklin's and Starstruck aren't bad. Forced Penance is great for punishing bodyblocking (which these squads also tend to do). The latter is becoming one of my favorite perks.
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@StarLost said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGxbmvuguM&ab_channel=MuratTekmen
It's been a lot of fun, and I'll probably poke my head back in for Halloween, but I'm starting to burn out here.
I really do enjoy playing killer, as frustrating and stressful (and occasionally demeaning) as the role can be, and the changes upcoming in the overhaul do sound rather positive for the most part, but solo queue survivor is miserable right now, with basically every second killer either cable pulling the second the game starts going sideways or hard camping/slugging at the first opportunity (seriously, both sides DC far, far too much and it ruins games).
On the other side of things, killer queues are now lurking somewhere between 4 and 6 sodding minutes. So something is definitely squiffy somewhere, and I don't think that the band-aid of bonus BP will be making things much better.
While the upcoming changes are going to make the balance between SWF and killer a little better (although OTR is going to need a nerf), it's going to be far worse for solos, especially with the newly buffed Knockout encouraging an already frustratingly effective 'anti-solo' tactic.
This isn't meant to be a rote 'I'm quitting unless you change x' post, more of a fond farewell to the fantastic forum folks that I will for sure miss, and again, this is more a 'ja ne' than a 'sayonara', because...man, I need a break from this game.
We'll see what things look like later this year - but I'm done at the first sight of any 'pumpkin suits' come Halloween.
The snowmen were awesome, and I don't know why so many people complained about them.
I don't know how I missed the OTR buff. Holt #########. That's awful. That's going to have the pick rate that Dead Hard does now. I was starting to warm up to some of the killer changes, but could very well outweigh all of them.
I will keep playing, regardless.
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@fulltonon said:
fyi you'll lose 6k (or 5k) BP when they do that
Really?
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@Seanzu said:
I'm just curious is all, it happened multiple times but I feel absolutely nothing at all, I don't feel personally attacked or targeted and see absolutely no rational as to why so many people are upset by survivors doing it?
Well, I don't see it as "offensive" or "upsetting", but I do take it as a challenge, especially if you're doing it at every pallet and clicking your flashlight. Don't be surprised if you get tunneled, facecamped, slugged, or whatever else it is that I feel like doing to you. I take it as consent.
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@MrDardon said:
Not that, but Pain Resonance and Surveillance will be a good combo.
Gen regresses, turns to white and instantly to yellow because the Survivors stopped the regression.
But it doesn't stop them from working on it, does it? I thought that Surveillance only worked on actively regressing gens. I thought the new Pain Resonance would work the way Surge/Jolt works when you're working on a gen: you lose some progress, but you get to keep working on the gen, and Surveillance doesn't activate.
Surveillance/Dragon's Grip/Overcharge will be downright oppressive when the new patch drops, though.
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@Clocktower6 said:
I am sure that I am not the only player who noticed one of the quotes on the game loading screen saying that the game's best years are yet to come. It's true that we don't know everything that BHVR has planned as far as content goes, but what do you guys think? Has the game not hit its peak yet? Or are the golden days of the game long gone?
We still don't have Chucky, Pennywise, or the Scooby gang, so yeah.
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@Slowpeach said:
So annoyed they didn't nuke this thing from orbit. Ultimately it loses some things but gains others. It can still be used for distance if you use it when you are 1 second away from safety.
Scariest thing? You can use to safely unhook. Sure nice against camping but that'll basically make the perk mandatory and make bullying an absolute joy.
It will still be the most used perk by far.
Valid points, but you might not be able to perform actions while DH is active, which means that you could not use it to safely unhook. BHVR apparently confirmed that there will be an animation when it's used, which makes it unlikely that you can use it while trying to unhook (so you could still always hit them at the last second).
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@[Deleted User] said:
Current DH has two utilities: being used to dodge a hit and being used for the distance. The first part of the perk has a counter, usually by getting very close to the survivor and waiting for the DH. The second part does not have a counter.
They gutted the second part and buffed the first part, seems like a fair exchange to me. DH is way healthier now imo.
Also "without the effort"? How many people you know can use Dead Hard to dodge a hit? Because the vast majority of people I see use DH for the distance.
I run Dead Hard once maybe every couple hundred games (I'm not generally playing to win as survivor, but I sweat hard as ######### when I'm playing killer), and you just wait until you see the red stain and press the button. Or else look behind you and wait for the animation, if you really want to be sure (which does take reflexes, and I can't do it consistently playing on Stadia, but it's not hard, no).
@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017548#Comment_3017548
Does it have animation? Where was this confirmed?
I second this question. I've been pissed off about the Dead Hard "nerf" all day, but if it has an animation, I'll shut up and be happy.
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@CrowVortex said:
it's an extra 2%? Don't think that would make a drastic difference.
It's not gonna. I got excited when I saw it listed under buffed perks, but it's still going to be as (mostly) useless as before.
I'll still probably run it on Legion and still never on anyone else.
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Are teachables even gone? It was my understanding that you can still get those from a killer at level 40 and find them in the bloodweb on other killers normally, but you now also have the option of unlocking them on everyone via prestige (I do think it's funny that the guy in the anniversary broadcast used BBQ as an example of a perk we might want to use this system to unlock).
In any case, prestige will be much less painful now that you don't lose everything upon going past level 50.
It was also my understanding that (and they haven't revealed the details of this) if you've already unlocked enough perks on a killer or something, you'll be automatically awarded with prestige levels when the update takes effect, so some killers that I've invested a lot into already might immediately P3 (and then I'd just have to get to P6 to get all of their bloody cosmetics).
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@Canas said:
Call of Brine still seems better as a perk due to the 200% regression speed being applied from the get-go which is enough to fully regress a gen in half a minute after kicking it. Meanwhile Overcharge gives far less value if a survivor taps the gen after like 15 seconds.
The very first thing I wondered when I saw the Overcharge buff is how well the two stack.
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@Mozic said:
Howdy!
As many of y'all know, Dead Hard is going to be seeing some manner of revision. I figured I'd share what impact a Dead Hard-less Fog might look like:
* Sharp rise in Sprint Burst & Overcome
Sprint Burst is the true "old faithful" of exhaustion perks and many seasoned in getting good value out of it will likely return to using it as a 1:1 replacement for Dead Hard. However, Overcome has come out since Dead Hard's undisputed rise, and may be a very popular alternative to Sprint Burst for survivors who do not like the technical aspect of managing Sprint Burst's cooldown.
* Moderate rise in Quick & Quiet + Head On
While this combo certainly sees some use, the two work so well together that Dead Hard having a reduced presence will make plenty of players scoot back towards using not just one, but both perks together again.
* Happier M1 Killers, but Trapper especially
Dead Hard's power and presence is single-handedly pushing M1 killers down on the overall tier list, but Dead Hard's unique ability to cross over Trapper's traps will be a massive gamechanger for Trapper players who are going for a more zoning, defensive playstyle.
* Less happy Artists, Dredges, Freddy's, and Sadako's
If sprint burst becomes more popular, anti-loop & teleportation killers who are more vulnerable to "Hold W to win" counterplay will especially suffer.
What other impacts on the meta do you think we'll see?
Why do people think that "hold W to win" is a thing? When I try to hold W as a survivor, it usually just gets me killed.
All of that is far preferable to the current state of affairs. I actually think we'll see more Lithe and Balanced Landing than Sprint Burst since they don't require you to tiptoe across the map half the game, but that's fine since they're also not an on-demand third health state that constantly guarantee escapes all game.
As someone who plays M1 killers almost exclusively, I can't wait. I defended Dead Hard until it became impossible to defend.
I play a lot of Sadako, and I guarantee you she'll be much happier without Dead Hard. I play Freddy occasionally, and I hardly think that he'll suffer much, either.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003950#Comment_3003950
I love the survivors that are too slow and I can see their aura while they are entering the locker. Caught many off guard this way.
The trick is to know when you entered the locker too late so you can exit it ASAP and laugh as the killer searches every locker in the area, trying to figure out why you aren't in the one he's sure he saw you enter.
But this is also why I'm either going to enter the locker either immediately after I see you pick up the survivor, or else I'm just going to eat the token loss and keep working on my gen. Of course, even if I do screw it up, I just lose a token, anyway.
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3004507#Comment_3004507
I use it on Trickster a lot, combined with BBQ, PR and that Dredge perk that I can never remember the name of (auras when you search a locker). Insanely good combo - information and lethality out the wazoo.
Yeah, I thought that new perk looked like it'd be decent on Huntress and Trickster, but I don't play them. How much do you get out of it, though? I guess my main concern is that survivors don't tend to just do 8 meter circles around lockers all game.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003950#Comment_3003950
I run BBQ and Iron Maiden on some killers.
You...enjoy those lockers XD.
I don't come across Iron Maiden very often at all, and when I do, I'll often abuse it to distract the killer by waiting until I know they're far away and then exiting the locker before immediately Urban Evading away to a slightly different part of the map and letting you search the entire thing while someone unhooks the person you just got.
This is why I never run Iron Maiden as killer.
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No.
I hate them, but it wouldn't be fair, and it wouldn't be good for the game to do so.
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@KerJuice said:
I can’t figure this system out and why I get the level of players that I do… When I play survivor, I get either teammates that are new to the game, or not very good at it. Then our killer is more than me. When I die, I have more points than everyone- even when I die first. Then in the same gaming session, I can switch to killer and immediately end up facing survivors that seem like they belong in the top 1%. What the hell?? Why am I not going against the same potatoe survivors I just got 4 games in a row as survivor, to go against? Why am I vs. survivors and killers way more skilled than me? The rare times I get teammates or the opposition who are on the same level as me, or slightly below or above, is really nice. It makes for fun games win or lose on either side. But this is getting worse and more frustrating. I prefer longer Que times for more fair and quality matches. Anyone else feel this way?
Look at this for one example of what my games constantly look like (I’m at the top with the gen meme build):
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KV0ECZKT6PXZ/image.jpg
This Plague’s build was NASTY. Something out of high MMR. My teammates were ALL too scared to go for saves for half the game, even though someone had Kindred. I had to keep leaving my gens to go for the saves and ended up in a few chases. Ultimately I died on second hook because I wanted to give the last person a chance to find hatch. We had 2 gens left to do. This was on suffocation pit.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CQB8OWNCLTLA/image.jpg
Almost hit IRI for both Evader & Benelovent. Again, my matches have not been fun as of late. More than usual.
‘Btw, don’t lynch me for being THAT guy who didn’t bring a cake 😛
That's exactly what I came here to do.
Why did you not bring a cake? And you blame them for not helping you out? Not gonna lie, I'm not sure if I'd have saved you, either.
Seriously, though, I don't play Plague, but what's wrong with that build? Half of those perks really aren't that great.
I do agree with you in general, though. I had five killer games last night. Four of them were on Coldwind, all of them were against survivors who knew how to play, and Stadia was acting up, so I had to play using GeForce Now. And if Stadia being awful to play on is a bit of a meme, GFN is utterly unusable, with 0.5-0.75 input lag. I had a horrible evening.
@KerJuice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003372#Comment_3003372
Lmao I have an aura blocking meme build with Distortion, on Jeff. Sometimes it does come in handy for killers with aura reading add-ons. It gets you a pass for a moment or two then all your tokens are gone. Needs at least 2 more imo.
I usually run it with Iron Will, Urban Evasion, and Spine Chill. Killer ain't finding me.
I can only play well with this build. If I switch to anything else, I get my ass kicked game after game.
@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003381#Comment_3003381
You definitely need some goofy way to earn more, 'cause like
90% of the time your tokens get burned, it was in a situation that wouldn't have mattered anyway.
It feels more like, 90% of the time, you never lose a single one, and the entire perk slot was wasted. (This is probably the case closer to 50% of the time in reality, but it's a lot.)
However, it works very well in a stealth build, and it's great for information. Once you know a killer has BBQ, you can start hopping into lockers whenever a survivor gets picked up, which will save your tokens for situations where you don't find yourself within easy reach of a locker, and then the perk will last all game (and killers who run BBQ are generally relying on it, so you throw their entire strategy off). If they have Bitter Murmur, you're gonna have a bad time, but who runs Bitter Murmer?
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@Vyne456 said:
I need help. What's are you good tips and how do you play as them? Also what are some good perks for legion? Please help me out...
I'm a Myers main, but I also play a lot of Legion.
I recommend Thanataphobia/Hex: Ruin/Hex: Undying/Hex: Pentimento.
Most people won't heal against Legion under normal circumstances, but Thana will cause them to do so, especially in combination with the aforementioned perks, and if they don't, you're looking at anywhere from a 0-50% gen slowdown, depending on how many survivors are injured and whether or not Pentimento is active. If they do heal, that's extra slowdown, but usually, if you're facing a solo queue team, half the team will want to heal, and half won't, so you get both healing slowdown and gen repair slowdown.
The Ruin/Undying combo needs no introduction. It's great on every killer. Combined with Pentimento, it means that the survivors are screwed by 200% auto gen regression if they don't go totem hunting and 30% extra gen slowdown plus however long it takes to fins and cleanse two totems multiple times if they do decide to go totem hunting.
It's a win-win build, and survivors hate it. I was getting consistent 4Ks on survivor-sided maps before Legion's buff, and with some of his new addons, it's even better (I recommend the one that inflicts mangled and the one that keep gens auto-regressing even after Ruin is cleansed).
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@GreyBigfoot said:
I never understand these types of players. On both sides, really.
You only want to blind when the killer is breaking a pallet or picking up a survivor. There's no other animations worth it. If ya miss the save, then oh well, that's it. Any other time, the killer can simply look up and completely avoid the flashlight.
Why people bother using them at inopportune times, OR why killers decide to use the perk Lightborn. I guess when both of those players clash, it's pretty funny.
I find that I'm very glad when someone uses their flashlight at a pallet, because that's several seconds that they should be using to move away from me. As an M1 killer main, I find those few extra seconds invaluable in hooking them a few seconds later, especially since they don't realize that I can still close the distance even when I can't see them, because I can usually still hear them (on rare occasions, I even manage to get a hit while blinded).
Lightborn isn't worth running against one flashlight. Against two, I might run it, especially if they seem to be in a flashlight-dependent SWF or their usernames and cosmetics indicate that they might be annoying (four Neas with flashy cosmetics and names like Boon: Flashbangsave or any amount of vanilla Dwights are immediately suspect). Against three, good chance that I'll run it, although I had a game yesterday where I didn't bother and none of them even tried to use their flashlights - 4K. Against four, they probably don't realize how bad of a strategy that is, and Lightborn is going to be fun.
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It's a great perk, especially combined with Botany. There are a few very popular and very strange but very wrong pseudo-meta ideas that get taken as gospel by people on the forums for some reason, and the idea that Self-Care is worthless is one of them.
Of course, if you're in an SWF and you can coordinate a heal as soon as you're unhooked, perk slots would be better used on other things, but I only play solo when I do survivor, and I get a ton of use out of it on the rare occasions I do run it. (I'd run it more often, except I don't take playing survivor very seriously, and I usually run meme builds that require all four slots.)
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@Slowpeach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2989250#Comment_2989250
Survivors hate it because it cheats a health state. The irony is of course is that killers hate Dead Hard for the same reason. Both should be removed or changed to an entirely different effect. At the very least NoED should be told to players when last gen is done rather then when someone gets hit.
NoED also makes camping very hard to deal with because being healthy and having borrowed time isn't enough. Sure sometimes the totem will be out in the open and be fairly obvious but some spawns are just nasty. It just encourages very unhealthy playstyles that anger people which isn't what a game should be about. Sure some people will get angry no matter what at perceived slights like 'gen camping' or 'gen rushing' as if that's not what both sides are supposed to do but at least in those cases they aren't frustrating by design.
From purely a balance perspective NoED is not an issue and it's much easier to counter overall then Dead Hard for distance but from a gameplay/fun perspective? Nah. It needs to go. Sure the game needs to be slowed down a lot too, but NoED is a band aid fix to that at best.
The difference, of course, is that NOED is counterable and doesn't appear until survivors have already practically won the game. You can (and good survivors do) shut it down immediately once it becomes apparent that a killer has it, so it works maybe once, if that (3/5 games I've run it on recently, I haven't gotten to use it once).
I wouldn't complain about NOED if it was a Boon totem, or if it only activated once per trial, or if it only activated once the killer had gotten six hooks or the last survivor was the only one alive, or all of those things, which would make it on par with NOED.
Dead Hard just gives survivors a third health state all game, every game with no counterplay or drawbacks. I can't agree that the two are comparable.
NOED is purely opt-in. If you know a killer has it and you go for the unhook instead of leaving the trial or looking for the totem like you should, you have no one to blame but yourself.
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@DrDeepwound said:
Because in a healing meta where no one does totems and gens fly, noed is a reasonable choice. I sometimes run noed instead of any gen slowdown just for faster games, I hate ruin. I will run noed before ruin any day.
whydontwehaveboth.jpg
@Mekochi said:
Anyone else deal with a recent upsurge of people running NOED? I ask cuz I play the game every once in a while and we plan on playing more with the new changes being implemented. But this week it feels as if every other game killers are running NOED, maybe it's just me.
Funny you said this. I usually run NOED maybe 1 out of every 10 games, and only on certain builds, but I decided to give it a try for a few matches today, and I only got anything out of it (turned a 1K into a 3K) in the match I played just before I read this post earlier.
It's a decent perk when it works, but it seems like it's gone within 15 seconds of activating in a lot of games I play, before I even get a hit.
It's way overrated and only works against newbie survivors or if you actively protect it (which often means running away from a hook and two 99%'d exit gates and getting to the totem just as it gets cleased, leading to a 0K).
If I absolutely can't think of anything else to run in my current build, I might throw a NOED in there. It's a good generic perk for that and also a staple of endgame builds, but I have no idea why survivors hate it so much. If you're not cocky and you don't start playing badly during the EGC because you think you've already won, I get maybe one down out of it. Zero if you know how to counter it (memorize bones during match, find NOED when it activates).
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Think of it like a video game. The more you grind at it, the more EXP you gain, and the better you get at it. Just keep trying.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2988355#Comment_2988355
Sadako isn't really a killer for me per say, Moreso when i'm used to playing other killers that can use their power effectively, However i've been running the good ol' Surge / PR combo on acouple of my killers and it's been.. rather nice per say to not run ruin with it,
Hell PR by itself is also good when you wanna be on the move after each hook, (till they break the damn hooks with sabo..) Haven't been a big fan of Brine despite it being Ruin on kick, I just don't see how it's good when they can just run back and tap it quickly to reset the gen, especially if you're either mid-loop or stunned on a pallet, not my Cup of Tea..
Also on the Subject of Ruin / Undying, Combo can still be decent, the only downside is Rng favoring you or not on good actual placements, (I'm looking at you Haddonfield rework =_=) Only ran this combo a few times, not really worth to have 2 perks out of the game almost 30 seconds in if they spawned on it, still not a bad combo though!
Tbf, i Really wanna like Deadlock / Merciless, but the downside is if you got like Ruin or something with these, it won't affect it if it gets locked, that's the only part i really hate about it, Despite it having a good upside, Surge and PR can still affect the locked gens i believe...not fully sure however..
I have a pretty high kill rate with Sadako when I run Nurse's/Brine/Pop/Dragon's (sometimes, I replace the latter with PR or BBQ). The Pop/Brine combo is actually stronger on her than Ruin/Undying because of her high mobility and the fact that she can check most or all of the gens on the map before Pop deactivates.
With Michael, both combos are a crapshoot, but Ruin/Undying works much better in most scenarios (especially if you're not running BBQ), just because Michael has no way to get to faraway gens in a reasonable amount of time, and if you didn't set up a 3-gen, the late game could ruin everything just as you're starting to put some pressure on survivors.
Sadako's gen regression game is extremely strong, and I feel like people would get more out of her if they were more aggressive about that. Also, she gets a lot of hits out of Nurse's, despite her stealth being crap.
But running Deadlock or Merciless with Ruin (with Undying) is definitely worth it. It keeps the survivor off of gens for 30 seconds or so, but, in practice, a lot of them will run off to do another gen or explore the map when DL activates (or else get chased off by you when you see the white gen), and then Ruin has a chance to work for a while. In a lot of cases, you'll still get something out of it even if they start back immediately, because, in that case, you weren't going to chase them off the gen, anyway, and Ruin wouldn't be working, so you still get slowdown out of it.
Running Ruin without Undying is almost never worth it, because it will be gone immediately. And yeah, there are some games where Ruin and Undying will both be gone in 30 seconds, but there are also games where both will last the entire game. Neither of those scenarios are nearly common as both of them going out halfway through the match once you've had a chance to put some pressure and they've done their damage. But running Ruin alone gives you a 50% chance of it being gone before it sees any play at all.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984607#Comment_2984607
Streamers and a lot of people throw Myers into the trash because they dont really understand his basekit and believe he is dependant in Tombstone addons, most bad Myers I see play him like a regular 32 TR M1 Killer, that is using the patrolling routes on the center of the map, which usually have very few LoS obstacles while as Myers you should walk the middle and outer rings of most maps because those almost universally have the most walls and obstacles, guys we can see you walking in the middle of the map, you are not tricking or surprising anyone with those lazy moves even if you went full TR reduction...
Having a 8 meter TR is a power on itself and well used on decent maps is deceptively strong, as a 32 TR Killer you dont care much about LoS since everyone and their mother will know you are getting close and start running away with a nice headstart, the TR will always warn them but as a 6/8 TR Killer if you walk the outer rings from wall to wall Survivors will have a much harder time detecting you because they dont have the TR warning and walking behind walls blocks their view, once you reach them its too late to get a headstart and a lot of times they dont even know what route take to escape because they literally dont know where you coming from and they have 2 seconds to react once they start hearing the hearbeat (8 meter TR means you are 1,75 seconds away from stabbing them in the butt when they start hearing the heartbeat).
I agree you need some sort of stall on him because his early game is extremely slow unless you manage to yoink someone from a gen at the start, I usually run PGTW and it serves its purpose well enough, Ruin is a gamble and since Myers doesnt have that much pressure it may not give enough value before it goes away unlike it does with high mobility Killers like Spirit or Blight.
Yeah, staying hidden while you move towards survivors is a must, although Spine Chill can be annoying, especially if the whole team's running it.
I've tried Pop with Brine as a replacement for the Ruin/Undying combo, but I wouldn't run it on its own, just because his mobility is such crap. Running Brine with Pop usually means that you get at least an extra 10-15% on top of Pop's 25, but it's still as much of a gamble as Ruin/Undying, since bad generator placement can mean that you aren't easily able to keep kicking enough gens and still keep chasing people. On the other hand, consciously employing a 3-gen strategy with that combo can be absolutely devastating.
Surveillance also works really well with Ruin/Undying on Michael since it gives you great information.
@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2985073#Comment_2985073
Technically, Oni Needs to atleast get A hit, it won't go up to 100% fully by itself, so you still need a hit reguardless,
also survivors won't release blood orbs if they haven't been injured yet,
Plague is still a basic m1 killer though, people tend to forget this, yes she Does prevent healing but doesn't mean you can cleanse, and if you're already broken, you'll be already pre-running before she gets close to you so you can make it to another loop and whatnot,
Pig is pure rng, you can get more cucked than useful with it almost all the time, (that or rng is a hassle)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984679#Comment_2984679
Personally, never was a big fan of undying, i haven't tried merciless, deadlock works wonders but it doesn't affect multiple gens at once which is a huge downside, since it only locks One that's "Close" to being done, ffs...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984874#Comment_2984874
Pfh, 4 claudettes in the wild hiding in bushes that blend in would like to have a word with you,
Combining Ruin/Undying or Brine/Pop with Deadlock/Merciless can be brutal.
Against excellent survivors who can hit every great skill check with surgical precision, you might not get anything out of Merciless, but even good survivors will usually miss at least once if they're surprised. Which is why it's a terrible perk on Sadako, since almost every Sadako player runs it, it seems like, and even I'll manage to get through a couple of gens without missing a check if I know it's coming.
If two survivors are working on the same gen when it triggers, there's almost a 100% chance that it's going to activate.
Also, you don't necessarily have to rely on them missing the checks on their own. If you run it with something like Tinkerer and manage to time it right so that you're chasing them off the gen while it's active, it'll give you the extra slowdown regardless.
It can be outplayed, but it's not like Overcharge where you've got a 75% chance of it never activating once against decent survivors. If every survivor misses one out of the 20 skill checks thrown at them, it's done enough to make it worth it.
Also, while we're on the subject, Brine with Dragon's Grip can be really effective, just because DG scares some survivors into waiting a while before trying to work on a gen again. I usually run that combo on Sadako.
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Nah.
If you're not an idiot survivor, it gets the killer ONE down. If that. It's gone within 30 seconds of activating in most cases when I run it, which is why I've stopped running it for the most part.
It's the glue that holds together endgame builds, so you'd be ending an entire playstyle.
As survivor, I see it maybe one out of every 10-20 games. As a killer, that's also about how often I run it.
It's not something to complain about, really. It's not unfair in the way that Dead Hard and CoH are unfair; those perks remain unparalleled by anything on the killer or survivor's side.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984645#Comment_2984645
The main Perks i use on Michael are as Follows: Ruin (if this perk even last 30 damn seconds ffs) Pop Bam Monitor, with DR and J Myers, has been my go-to build, unless im bored and wanna mori everyone, then it's: PWYF Noed Corrupt and a random perk of choice, =D
That's not bad, but I'd replace Pop with Undying. Because, yeah, Ruin won't last 30 seconds otherwise, and Myers has no map mobility, so it's better to have passive slowdown than having to go chase down a gen every time you hook someone.
Merciless/Deadlock also works really well on him for passive slowdown. Merciless gets unfairly maligned; it's not as bad as something like Overcharge. People expect it on Sadako, bust most survivors will miss at least once if you run it on any other killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984607#Comment_2984607
I hope I am not high MMR Survivor considering I haven't won a game in a week.
Weren't you the one who had 20 bot games in a row the last time that happened?
I'm just saying. My survivor MMR is low, and I've never seen those once. (Mostly because I can't loop for #########. I'm not easy to find, but if you do, I'm just going to run in a straight line away from you until you down me. "Holding W" is a meme strategy if I've ever seen one.)
@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984526#Comment_2984526
That's why you dont pop it off the bat, you do it when you're up their back, no way they'll dodge it =D
Also, in my experience, survivors who think that they're denying you stalk typically think they're being more effective than they are. You can sometimes stalk them at weird angles or (in rare cases) obstacles that they're trying to hide behind, and, no, trying to run me in circles around a pallet doesn't affect me - the closer you are, the more stalk I get, so this is still as effective as stalking you from a distance without interruption even if I'm only getting stalk 50-75% of the time we're running around in circles.
They still haven't fixed the spots you can stalk through =D they were bugged at first but it's fixed now
When it comes to stalk, there really isn't much the survivors can do once you've found them. Your enemy is RNG. If they all spawn next to the farthest two gens with toolboxes and they're the last ones you check, it could be a rough match.
Tis why corrupt also helps with this,
I never run Corrupt. Maybe I would on Trapper or Hag, but in effect, it's 15 seconds of slowdown while the survivors find a different gen to do (assuming they don't just all go hide in the corner for a minute and a half, which doesn't help me stalk), and then it's a wasted perk.
It's probably better in general than I'm giving it credit for, but every perk slot counts on Michael.
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This bait is relevant to my interests, so I'm taking it.
Your loadout determines Michael's tier. Basekit with no addons (or with any of his worthless addons, which are plentiful) can make him D or C-tier. Tombstone Piece + stalk addons is an S-tier build if you focus on hooking 2-3 survivors and mori the other 1-2, but you are not going to get many bloodpoints with that build no matter how well you play it. Scratched Mirror build is at least a B-tier, maybe A or S with a Lery's offering. Stalk addons + Hair Bow can be B-tier.
Michael also has more perks that synergize with his power and addons in massive ways than any other killer:
M&A + Dead Rabbit + Vanity Mirror is an S-tier build, and I don't know why nobody else has picked up on this one in particular. M&A + Dead Rabbit is A to S-tier on its own, as it means no terror radius with no speed penalty or reduced lunge, and with the right perks and addons (especially VM and Nurse's), it can be almost impossible to win against.
Infinite T3 with 25% stalk addon is A-tier on its own, but add Bambooze (which not only blocks windows, but increases Michael's already speedy T3 lunge) and Coup de Grace (which can deny Dead Hard in T3 due to Michael's already massive lunge, which I recently made a post about, and also throws off survivors' timing to such a degree that it ends multiple chases early per game), and it's an S-tier build.
Yeah, there's a reason why they rarely buff Michael despite people constantly saying that he's weak, and the reason is because he's one of highest-performing killers statistically.
@[Deleted User] said:
I agree he's pretty underrated on tier lists. He's often put below killers like Sadako, Pig and Clown. I just can't agree with that.
I also think he actually is secretly S tier. No other killer can do this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NMLYJ06CBCEL/z-tier-killer.jpg
I believe that with tombstone piece he is truly unbeatable, best killer. Once you kill 2 survivors quickly you can just camp the third one.
That is an F-tier build, though. Infinite T3 mori is objectively worse than basekit. If you're actually trying to win games consistently, Tombstone Piece is much better, but the tradeoff is that you can depip with 5K bloodpoints despite getting a 4K (or at least it seems that way).
@Pulsar said:
I will have to play Survivor on Mondays now, I'd like to win 30 games in a row.
Yeah, but aren't you at super-high MMR, to the point where you only have instawin bots as opponents whenever a new wave of them gets unleashed into the game?
The fact that you still see Michael enough to have an opinion says everything. Back during the old matchmaking system, he was one of the only M1 killers who could perform well at red ranks with sweat enough play.
@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983682#Comment_2983682
Oni regains his powers hitting people
Plague either regains her powers when people cleanse OR she gets a secondary power where everyone is now permanently injured
Trickster can reload his power
Huntress can reload her power
Pig also is hot trash but even she still at least can go stealthy and do the dash attack
Mike runs out of stalker juice and now it sucks to be him. He has no secondary power. He has no way to reload his power. When he is out of stalker juice, Mike is now out of power
Pig's dash attack sucks. I agree that her basekit is stronger than Myers, but when all builds of both killers are considered, Mikey is stronger.
Trickster just sucks in general, and Myers will outperform him consistently.
The other killers you listed are stronger than Michael on average, but he still has builds that are stronger than anything they can do.
I almost never run out of "stalker juice" on Michael unless I'm running something ridiculous like a Tombstone Piece build, and then half the team is already dead by the time I do. It's almost impossible to completely stalk everyone while playing another build; game's over before you even get close.
@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983564#Comment_2983564
I agree, Myers has one very strong thing that almost nobody has, a 99% EW3+8 meter radius can put down the best looper in the game if you manage to surprise him, a chase that could last minutes can be sorted in literally seconds.
The whole "you can run out of power" thing is true, without taking Addons on account you have 40,4 stalk points, 5 are needed per tier so you have 7 EW3 activations per trial, but as a Myers main I rarely need all EW3 uses to skew a match into my favour, I usually down around 1,5 people per EW3, 5 activations would be around 7-8 downs, by that time you have already won the game, I honestly never felt gimped by the number of EW3 uses like "If I just had 2 more uses I would have won that match...".
Myers problems come from his lack of mobility on big maps and people playing him like he had a 32 TR radius not from EW3 having a limited number of uses.
If you use DR+M&A, your TR is even lower.
I don't know if I've ever run completely out of stalk while there was more than one survivor left in the game while running a normal build. If you have Hair Bow, it's not even an issue.
@Notionless said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983682#Comment_2983682
once all survs are red you literally cant get t3. huntress can always reload, oni can always injure survs to get it, etc, you get the idea. the only other killer who can effectively run out of power is pig. Now i agree with @HectorBrando that its not the main thing driving his weakness, but i dont like your representment of killer powers.
Good thing this never happens in real-world scenarios.
@Norhc said:
Myers' strength is highly dependent on the build he is using. Tombstone is straight up A+ while Scratched Mirror is like C. Also, any person seriously believing that there's such a powerlevel gap between killers that D tier even is a thing is a testimony of their lack of credibility.
This.
However, Trickster was at least D-tier when he was first released, and Trapper is D-tier. When taking other factors (like build and platform into account), other killers can also reach this low. Old Legion was D-tier with the wrong build (B-tier or above with the right one). D-tier is a thing, but Mikey isn't on it unless you're running him with no perks and no addons (and then ut's debatable).
@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983969#Comment_2983969
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984025#Comment_2984025
First off, If you're versing Actual survivors and not pub survivors with -100 hours, They can deny your power for a good while,
Which means if you're versing 4 really good loopers, Kinda net impossible to get Your power unless they make One singular mistake, even then, they can always just hide out oni's power still making it useless and wasted,
Plague can also suffer the same thing, + yall forget her power can be TAKEN away if she gets pallet stunned, so buh bye red vommy buff, and back to being a basic 115% m1 killer,
i already stated that if huntress / trickster dont reload, they lose it entirely, as stated here
...Trickster runs out of his power afteruse, (can still reload but still)
...Huntress runs out of her power afteruse (Same thing with trickster)
Which clearly nobody looked at,
Piggy is also 115%, ambush can be nulled if survivors are smart and run away from the loop into another loop, making it still a bad power altogether,
So again.. gotta take into account what survivors you'll face, 95% of my mikey games i barely get anyone into the pure red unless its the only person i found to gain EW3
Yeah, but if you have more than 100 hours yourself, you're going to realize that when they start trying to deny you stalk, you either use the opportunity to get a free hit and/or hook, find someone else, or... just keep stalking since the math still works out in your favor if you're close enough.
Also, in my experience, survivors who think that they're denying you stalk typically think they're being more effective than they are. You can sometimes stalk them at weird angles or (in rare cases) obstacles that they're trying to hide behind, and, no, trying to run me in circles around a pallet doesn't affect me - the closer you are, the more stalk I get, so this is still as effective as stalking you from a distance without interruption even if I'm only getting stalk 50-75% of the time we're running around in circles.
When it comes to stalk, there really isn't much the survivors can do once you've found them. Your enemy is RNG. If they all spawn next to the farthest two gens with toolboxes and they're the last ones you check, it could be a rough match.
@Crowman said:
Idk why people take tier list placements for their favorite killer so personally.
Myers is just a weaker than average killer when we compare all the killers together. Yes Tomestone Piece is broken, but that doesn't really change Myers without it.
Michael has several incredibly broken builds (see my first couple of paragraphs). Most people just don't think about those because Otz doesn't ever make videos about them. (Every tier list, he talks about TP and nothing else and then dismisses Mike as the worst killer in the game.)
As a Michael main, I'm not very likely to run a TP build because of the low BP you get out of it even if you win. Also, the other S-tier Michael builds are probably better, anyway, because you have to get a lot of stalk to get just one kill out of TP.
@Straker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984499#Comment_2984499
That is only a problem if you have played poorly and wasted your tier threes. If you have played properly then you should have won the match when you can no longer expend your evil.
This. Don't pop your T3 unless and until you're about to get a hit. They'll occasionally manage to get away from you somehow for a few seconds, anyway, but if you didn't 100% your T3 until you were on top of them, you still won't have wasted it.
@Tryharder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2984515#Comment_2984515
And if survivors are against Myers, they loop him for 60 seconds and force him to eat several pallets because he a m1 killer. Spine chill hard counter his stalk meanwhile plague get free info and her addons are more busted then Myers lol 247 wallhacks and free corrupt purge from gens being rush meaning she can still benefit from her power even if survivors never cleansed.
Yes, you will be eating a lot of pallets with Michael, but if you know the difference between safe and unsafe pallets, and you destroy the safe ones immediately instead of trying to play around them (also remember to stalk survivors who stand at dropped pallets), the entire map becomes unsafe pretty quickly. You only have to deal with that crap for one or two extended chases, and then it's a survivor slaughter factory.
Slowdown is very important on Michael, though, yeah. You're going to want to be running Ruin/Undying and/or Deadlock/Merciless and/or Brine/Pop with most builds, especially ones that rely on addons that increase his stalk time.
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@RenRen said:
If auto aim works correctly then yes.
Does DBD have auto-aim? I found this comment: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1965285/#Comment_1965285
@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2982417#Comment_2982417
from the PTB to live it was nerfed yes. Similar to original gearhead implementation
@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2982417#Comment_2982417
It was 100% on the twins PTB but was nerfed to 60% before it hit live.
Then a little while ago they split the difference and buffed it from 60% to 80%.
Yeah, 100% would be good on any killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Time to nerf Coup again.
Was it ever nerfed? I know it was buffed not too long ago, from 60% to 80%, but it doesn't seem like it would be a viable perk on anyone but Mikey, as I don't think this particular trick would work on any other killer (haven't tried it). Maybe it might be fun on Clown with a full anti-loop build.
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The first English LGBT horror story (that I'm aware of, anyway - there may have been one before it) was written in 1872, a quarter centory before Dracula.
It's been one of my favorites since I was a kid. It's a little over a hundred pages, and I highly recommend: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10007
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
Yeah.
I mean, if you're moving, doing gens, in chase, or anything like that, you're obviously not ragequitting.
But if they implemented code that didn't activate the DC ban if you were doing gens or halfway through a chase, then all you have to do is hop on a gen or fins the killer in order to get a free DC.
I see survivors disconnect halfway through chase all the time, anyway.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2978972#Comment_2978972
Shouldn’t the same apply to blight then?
No. For one, Blight is much stronger than Artist or just about anyone other than Nurse when played correctly. Blight also feels like more of a traditional horror character in a lot of ways, and I think some people dismissed Artist for being less traditional.
I assume that you were referring to Blight and not Trickster.
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@Zarathos said:
Recently i picked up trickster and was genuinely supirsed how different and exciting it was to play him. Addons like his ricochet and piercing daggers whilst situational is refreshing and cool. His exposed addon feel like an actual technique and dramatically changed up my build for trickster it was a breath of fresh air from the rather generic add on modifiers I'm use to seeing.
I was initally wary of bothering with him because of all the depipster meme's and his initial release. I wanted draw attention to this because I do think behaviour needs to make better first impressions with there killers. Sadako dropped and even if she gets buffed the community is gonna always have the image of an underwhelming killer. Nothing short of overtunning her is gonna make an impression and thats just not ideal.
I know its not intentional to ever want to disappoint but I find a lot of releases are playing it way to safe. Bar michalea and pinhead. The introduction of COH dramatically made an impact it was admitadly overtuned but it actually shook up killer builds and alter at least one survivor perk slot (a better safety valve woulda been nice). Pinhead added In a whole new objective with a power that stands out espicially when you look at his iri and purple addons which again affects his builds.
For comparison many chapters like the crow chapter did really nothing to impress and I think a chapter gretest failure is being bland. Don't get me wrong a safety valve should be ready to tone back oppresive perks or killers powers but the default should be to take risks.
Trickster's aesthetic is still awful, and that's the reason I'm always going to look down on him, even if they buff him to S-tier. I tried one game with him and didn't have fun, and I probably won't try him again until I'm going for his achievements. A lot of people feel similarly about him, and that's why his reputation has such staying power even after they made a good effort to turn him into a competent killer.
@Phasmamain said:
Tbf artist is one of the strongest releases to date yet still garnered no attention. It’s not all about how strong they are it’s about what new thing they bring to the table
I think Artist didn't garner as much attention because of her high skill ceiling and her aesthetic. She's a great killer, but she also takes a lot of practice to learn. When there are multiple killers that take tens to hundreds of hours of playtime just to feel competent, you can't focus on all of them at once, even if you want to. Right now, I'm practicing with Cenobite alongside my mains, and once I feel competent with him, I'll look at Artist, Nurse, or Blight...
I also feel like some people didn't enjoy her aesthetic, although personally she's one of my favorites in that regard. Eyrie is awesome, too.
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Also, (and I say this with some irony), play Myers or Ghostface. Myers with Dead Rabbit and M&A means a 6m terror radius at EWII without being in a chase, which is just large enough to let survivors know that they just got hit. They'll also be confused and jumping on and off of gens all match (Ruin/Undying helps here) since your TR is randomly going to jump around from 6 to 40m, depending on what your EW level is and whether or not you're in a chase.
Ghostie's buffs help him a lot, but the increased ability to reveal him can be annoying (but also function as a poor man's survivor finder and can be a serious boon in the late game).
In general, with any killer, just adopt M1 tactics. The way you counter "hold W" when you're a Michael, a Sadako, or a Ghostface (and got spotted from far away) is to loop mercilessly. Eat those pallets, cycle through those windows a dozen times until the entity blocks them, and then take your kill. Sometimes, there isn't a better or easier way, and you'll thank yourself when the survivor is hooked and half the pallets in the map are gone in the process.
It also helps to know which chases to engage in. In every team, there is usually at least one god-level looper and at least one weak link. You're going to have to go after the god-looper eventually if you want to win, but pick them as your first real chase and you'll spend 5 gens playing with them at the jungle gym. Instead, find the weakest link and commit to that person. When they're gone/incapacitated, it drags the entire team down, and the decent looper(s) will have to leave gens to come and rescue them, putting them in a vulnerable position where holding W can't help...
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@BenOfMilam said:
I play a lot of Deathslinger, and he gets bodied by Hold W. At a certain range (about 10+ or 12+ meters), survivors can juke your shot on reaction to the sound of you firing. So you have to hold W to catch up and get in 8m or so range before you can land a shot.
Takes about 10 seconds or so to get into 8m range if they start holding W at exactly 12m, and a whopping 40 seconds to get into 8m range if they start running at 24m. Keep in mind that we're just talking about how close you have to be before survivors can no longer juke your shot on reaction.
Any tips, perks, or strategies for making Hold W less viable?
Edit: Play XYZ killer is NOT a helpful tip. There's a reason why the devs don't listen to us, and it's because it's very clear most of the community lacks any sort of capacity for critical thinking.
>There's a reason why the devs don't listen to us, and it's because it's very clear most of the community lacks any sort of capacity for critical thinking.
Clap.
Clap.
Clap.
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@AnchorTea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2954968#Comment_2954968
Pretty sure the removal was entirely out of their power. It would be an incredibly foolish move for a comapny to abandon an IP like that.
We're talking about Stranger Things, right?
I always assumed that Netflix came along and said something like, "Yeah, getting 60% of the profit for letting you use our character is cool, but you know what would be cooler? 75%. We're one of the biggest franchises in the world right now, and you have to have us." And then DBD rightfully told them to go play with themselves, knowing that if they caved, word would get around, and they'd have to cave to the next company who asked.
Either that, or Netflix plans to bring back the characters at some point, but wanted to take them away for a period in order to artifically inflate their value and create interest in them for when they drop Stranger Things Season 19: Jesus Christ When Will This Story End So I Can Stop Reading About It In My Goddamn Facebook Feed And I Don't Know Who Needs To Hear This But Stranger Things Doesn't Hold A Candle To Any Other Licensed Franchise In DBD It's Really Not That Great Watch Something Else.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Camping and tunneling is a major issue, but if the survivors are rushing the hook before you can leave and then using BT offensively, that’s on them.
I also try not to camp and tunnel, but if I see you before I’ve even left, I’m not going to pretend you’re not there.
I will. And then I'll turn back around just as soon as you think I'm leaving and smack you as you run up to the hook.
@Anara said:
Dont get me wrong Im not speaking survivor side. Im speaking as a killer in this discussion.
I had so many games when the survivors forced me to camp or tunnel.
For example I hook a survivor. I dont have the time to kick the generator or the pallet near the hook and leaving it, that all the team is already here for the save and they call me camper in endgame chat.
Same example, I let them hook in front of me. The survivor freshly unhooked try to take a hit with BT. So I wait 12 second and down him. I try to pick up so I get a DS and I can leave him, he dont have DS............ they call me tunneler at the end.
Still same example, I decide to leave the hook so they dont call me camper again. They are all in same area doing the generator near the hook. I kick it, down the survivor doing the gen and go back to the hook. They are still there healing themself...... so they call me camper.....
What should I do ? Pretend to not see them ? Pretend to be a baby killer ?
The problem of this game for me its designed around camping and tunneling. Yes I know in this case its survivor fault but yes I camped and tunneled because I had no other choice.
When I tell the survivors they said : your choice is playing better.
I really dont get it....
Yes I dont care about endgame chat and what people think but Im sick of being forced to camp or tunnel because the game is designed in a way sometimes, when survivors playing bad I had no other choice.
And no I dont have fun as killer because the game told me to play that way.
You just need to learn to love it. You're playing as a psychopathic killer; it's not your job to be nice. Revel in every display of frustration and desperation that they give you. Laugh as you slug that Claudette who's trying to bodyblock the Meg she just unhooked and savor the knowledge that there will be three people not doing gens when somebody comes to save her. Feel the euphoria as that Jake who sabo'd every down you managed to get flails his hands helplessly in front of you as you tongue-kiss him on the hook. There is nothing wrong with it.
Now, I'm not saying you need to take that attitude with every friendly grind squad that you come across, but they wanna play ball, play ball.
Camping shouldn't be an attractive playstyle, and if it is, it's because the survivors are playing badly. That's on them, and you're only doing them a favor by butchering them all as quickly as you can and ascending to a higher MMR where they don't have to see you again and the survivors who replace them know how to deal with you. (I also fully support facecamping survivors who follow you around like a puppy with a toolbox or a flashlight all game, but I would still classify this as "playing badly" since they're not getting a gen done no matter how many saves they manage to get.)
Tunneling is just a necessity these days if you want to win. I'll eat the BT and the DS and all those pallets if it means you don't have time to recharge your Dead Hard and go for the CoH somebody conveniently placed ten meters from the hook. If you can manage to get one survivor out of the way before more than a couple of gens are done, you've done well.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I particularly like equating DH to the other exhaustion perks, as if they are all equal. The thing about SB is that you have to sit on it until the right moment. If you want to save it for that right moment, you can't run, or you have to nurse that 99%, which is not optimal in chase. Most of the time, you can see that SB coming from a mile away. Lithe you can only use if you fast vault. BL you have to find a sufficient drop. Etc, etc. There are offsets and requirements that keep them from being OP; they are limited in application, and I have ZERO issue with any of them.
DH you can use at any point to bail you out of being downed, often (usually) after you've just been badly outplayed. It's an on demand mistake eraser. In golf, it'd be a mulligan. Imagine being a survivor, beating the killer to a pallet or vault, dropping it/vaulting, only to have the killer hit a button and instantly jump to your side and hit you. DH (especially for distance) is that level of BS.
People can create all the false equivalencies to other perks they want to justify it, but DH stands alone on its own tier as a survivor perk. It's OP.
100%.
@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952691#Comment_2952691
Yes, they are uncounterable. But, they have to be earned by doing what you're supposed to do, which is hook survivors.
They also aren't very good. You only get a Scourge Hook every 2-3 downs (assuming you're not facing a toolbox Saboteur squad), and while the 15% is nice, it isn't enough to justify the perk slot except in specialized builds, and 45 seconds of slowdown isn't that much, especially since good survivors will just stop working on gens for a few seconds every time you down someone after they see it for the first time, and there are far better perks that give you almost as much slowdown for free and even more uncounterable (Deadlock).
I only use Pain Resonance as an extremely risky information replacement for BBQ on my Call of Brine/Pop Sadako builds. If you hear a scream, you know that survivor will tap the gen to stop the regression before running, and you now have that 15%, plus Pop's 25%, plus Brine's free 200% regression that warns you if a survivor is working on the gen again. That can be really nasty. The downside, of course, is that you don't get a Scourge Hook every time, and if hook placements are bad and survivors are fast, you don't get anything out of it. (And then I put Dragon's Grip, Deadlock, or Eruption on top of it. I find that survivors expect Merciless on Sadako, so I don't run it on her.)
But the PR/DMS combo is overrated. And it's not completely uncounterable. It's actually very easy to counter after your first screwup.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953969#Comment_2953969
But not to the extent of changing the perk at its most basic level, is my point.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953967#Comment_2953967
Your definition of "fair nerf" looks more like "hoping to completely negate the existence of the perk" (Overcome, too, come to that)
A perk like that would be better at just a few seconds, like Fearmonger. If they manage to get that down mid-chase and then use Dead Hard, you at least can't deny that you were outplayed.
My idea of a "fair nerf" is "I can waste a perk slot to counter a perk that denies me multiple downs every game and is so OP that more than 50% of survivors pick it". Yeah, that's fair.
If survivors want to keep it the way it is (and this seems to be common consensus among them), then it shouldn't be without risk. And if killers want to counter it, it doesn't have to be free. It'd be even riskier to run than Lightborn since you can't see survivor perks in the lobby, making it a gambling mini-game between killers and survivors. Run Dead Hard and you might get free escapes all game, or you might have wasted a perk slot, and vice-versa for killers.
It would remain useful. Ironically, it would be more useful the less survivors spam it, but the counter perk still wouldn't be run in most or all games, at least not after the first few weeks.
And it wouldn't be free for killers to negate. It would cost a perk slot, which is far more than one should have to waste to get rid of multiple free hits every game.
My idea could be reworked to exclude other perks somehow. The perk could also be fixed by "When you've been outside of a chase in the injured state for 15/12/10 seconds, Dead Hard activates" and "after activation, Dead Hard deactivates", but survivors seem to want the possibility of infinite free second chances to stay viable.
Yes, the Lightborn formula is perfect. Lightborn directly negates an entire class of survivor item and multiple perks with no cooldown or limitation, and it works entirely as intended. It doesn't generally see play outside of lobbies where four people are all running flashlights (and some killers still swear that flashlights are so easy to deal with that they'll never run Lightborn, just as some killers would with an anti-DH perk).
If you as a Doctor main aren't having trouble with DH, then maybe you would just be one of those killers who doesn't run the perk. Mikey needs it.
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@Name_Unavailable said:
Then nerf anti-loop killers too. Would you agree? Asking to nerf DH when we have Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Artist, Nemesis. etc... Is not fair.
Also spoiler alert: After making DH useless, You all will complain about that everyone is using Spirt Burst.Use Sprint Burst, then. It's not a free, infinite health state that is usable on every build in every situation.
If you would be just as happy with Sprint Burst taking its place, then, cool, change Dead Hard to something else entirely, and we'll call it good.
As an M1 killer main, how "fair" is it that survivors get to prolong the chase for an extra 20-60 seconds every single time I manage to catch up to them and that they get a free second chance every single time they screw up their timing? Maybe Dead Hard could be used to block damage from M2 attacks, but no effect on M1 attacks and no distance/speed gain.
You know what actually would be a fair DH nerf? Keep it the way it is, but give killers a generic perk that causes the Exhausted status effect for 60/75/90 seconds after being injured. We'd have to waste a perk slot, but there would be a hard counter to an overpowered and infinitely abusable perk, and people would only run it as much as they see four Dead Hards every other match. Lightborn for Dead Hard.