Notionless — Comments · Dead by Daylight forum archive

@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3386251#Comment_3386251
Yes, but hypothetically what would be a reason to nerf them in your mind?

used correctly Engravings are good, and they lift up other addons (for example tuned carburator) which are useless without an engravin: to go along with them. In addition, most of his other addons are useless comparatively (survivorship bias).

Therefore, the usage rate must be high, and since good billies (who get a high killrate) know this and newer ones (who get a low killrate) don't, stats-wise it would be unsurprising if the killrate for these addons are high.

The approach of nerfing these addons is thereby dumb, since it doesnt tackle the problem at its roots, it only treats the symptoms.

In conclusion, this change is unnerving since it presents a disconnect between the dev-team and the community, making a protest justified.

in I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer. Comment by Notionless April 5, 2023

@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382424#Comment_3382424
Why does otz opinion matter more than most? He is a fogwhisperer. He actually job for behavior is keeping the game healthy, half of his recommendations have gone into the game already? That's why he is not just some streamer. If anything your just some guy on a forum.
"He is the King, so he must be right" Biggest elitism energy here mate, that is all I can say.
you shown with evidence you simply dismiss it
You mean when Im shows non credible evidence. Some Youtuber isnt a good enough sample size.
when people give valid reasons for why billy does not deserve this nerf you either default to the addons are overperforming without even consulting why that is the case( not seeing the big picture)
I am yet to see a valid reason besides hearsay about those two addons, I even addressed that in my response. But I dont think bHVR even wants it that way. Addons being essential to usage of a Killer is just a bad idea.
or simply ignore it in your response. You cherry pick what you want to argue against and your ego simply ignores the rest.
If there is something you want me to address, simply @ my name and say "I want you to address ... "
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382517#Comment_3382517
From the looks of it, it seems like they only judge add-on usage and performance relative to that killer's other add-ons. So if a killer only has a handful of add-ons that do anything, of course they'll be picked more than the rest of that killer's add-ons, and look like they're overperforming. This is the case with Billy.
You cant really have an addon be that essential. Ill bet you half a camel that isnt the intention or public policy I think bHVR is fully aware that most people dislike Hillbilly's addons, if not then they can survey for that information (which maybe they should) but keeping an overperforming addon in the game, just because you guys feel its the only addons you got is not gonna fly I think.
Nearly half of Blight's add-ons are ridiculously strong, so it makes sense that there is more variety in add-on usage rates, but it's possible the skill required to play Blight depresses their performance stats.
Now I have seen whataboutism on this forum, and ofc some systems are related. But Blight is 100% not related to Billy, and yet he has been brought up again and again. Some other killer's addons not being touched isn't an argument for not touching a completely different killer. I really don't know why you guys try that. Blight will get his nerfs for sure, bHVR isn't a hypocrite for washing the floor when the hedge needs trimming too. Those are unrelated.
They're obviously balancing based off of stats that look like outliers without asking why they're outliers, or in the case of Blight, why certain add-ons aren't outliers despite being oppressively strong after a player reaches a certain skill level.
If those addons are outliers in every billy build that overperforms, they still need to be toned down. I dont see how saying "they didnt ask why" is even a good reason, first of all you assume they dont know how those addons work and second it disregards the question if its intended for those two addons to be essential. which I dont think is a train bHVR is running on.
Idd like for you to adress if you think those two addons are intended to be essential high mmr enabler addons.
This is why I and so many others refuse to give BHVR the benefit of the doubt; not only do they not release the data, they don't bother explaining why the change is necessary, especially after Engravings have essentially done the exact same thing for 7 years. But now they're suddenly too strong? That just reeks of incompetence.
Oof thats is rough Sailor. But I actually think the engravings have just risen since the last rework, slowly becoming part of overperforming billys again and again. idk how that is incompetency. Seems like a timely reaction to me.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382548#Comment_3382548
BHVR don't nerf overperforming addons. They never did. Instead they nerf addons with high pick rates. Also let's not pretend that Engravings are overperforming. They aren't. Because Billy isn't overperforming. If they were really after overperforming addons Blight would have gotten nerfed a long time ago.
I don't see how you can demonstrate that bHVR does not nerf overperforming addons without access to the stats which you don't have. So how exactly do you know this besides your opinion? Also you might wanna look above about that Blight argument too.
BHVR are either trying to end what they started nearly 3 years ago (killing Billy for whatever reason) or they once again do random stuff that no one asked for. Have you ever heard someone call for a nerf to Billy's Engravings? Because I haven't.
Someone being mad about an addon is not required for bHVR to nerf it, like can you imagine. "Sorry, we cant nerf something because we have not received a complaint." Like come on. There is no way in Hell bHVR operates like this.
You are right that Hillbilly is overdue for some changes and I think most people agree with that.
This is why I advocate for a full Billy Rework, I think bHVR is just doing some routine maintenance on a Killer that really out to get a rework. But really they are not working hard on it, they just tweak a numbers that are overdue. I think if Billy needs some changes, but that requires an entirely diffrent campaign and as we seen in this thread. People dont want him reworked in case they lose the last 7 years of their life.
You're telling us you spoke to a former designer at BHVR? How is anyone supposed to believe that? Until you can back up that claim everyone will just take it as made up, no offense.
Yeah, its just an tidbit. This is why I believe it, I don't expect you to take that reason as justified.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382592#Comment_3382592
Addons can also be OP without overperforming compared to the rest.
OP in a certain situation are SITUATIONAL then, not OP. Even so if that was true, that means those situations happen far too often and that would still justify them being toned down. There is no way bHVR is gonna rework all maps just for one Killer to make sure those situations dont happen as much.
The "hard gameplay" we love is curving, and without these addons the survivor needs to make significant mistakes to get curved. So if we nerf the good curving addons, we wont curve nearly as much. Which is sad, because most billys and most survivors like curves.
I don't think sliding around a Car like it has butter or soap on it is what bHVR was going for. Neither with Blight. I have never had a Billy do that to me and felt, wow great design, really fair and balanced. I don't recall seeing bHVR putting out a statement on that. if you can find me one Ill accept it.
About the people and polls that are not official, I really think you ought to do a really big poll to figure that out, but I don't think bHVR will release the polling.
Why do you think he needs a rework and not a Buff?
Clunky and unwieldy to play.
Terrible addons.
Curving (which I don't think is intentional.)
it would be easier to address all this in a new Power, rather than repurpose the repurposed Power from 2016.

If i have a pc and i decide to say f it lets remove the graphics card and run games purely on cpu, only to buy a brandnew pc due to bad performance instead of putting the graphics card back in, that would be idiotic.

If BHVR destroys a killer through hiliariously harsh nerfs, only to rework him due to bad performance instead of reverting some of the nerfs, that would be idiotic.

And apparently most people really like billy, and specifically mention curve billy as their fav type of billy. So do all of the people i scanned through think at least. If you dont agree with that, find me a somewhat popular creator that disagrees with that notion.

BHVR didnt intend a lot of elements that are now staples of the game, that people find fun. If they remove something a lot of people enjoy, proof in my previous post, that would be pretty dumb, would it not be?

in I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer. Comment by Notionless March 26, 2023

@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381750#Comment_3381750
Thats why theres such an uproar about this change: instead of going in that direction, theyre removing the possibilty for players to bridge that gap with skillful application of these addons themselves.
If an addon is overperforming, I don't see what you expect them to do. Besides I heard alot of Hillbillys in this chat saying they love "hard gameplay" so that would be exactly what you want.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381752#Comment_3381752
but according to most, you are the minority. most people consider hilly billy a very fun killer to play against. you are literally one of the only people in this forum for the billy nerf
Yeah, this is something we hear a lot here. But do you have some studies to support that claim? besides your personal experience or if you are that streamer dude who only gets people coming in to throw roses as him-

If certain addons are overperforming compared to other addons, there are several possible causes. Addons can also be OP without overperforming compared to the rest. Billy has 3 good addons, 3 decent ones and the rest are situational and unnoticable.

If a billy would like to use his power in chase like bubba, he needs to use a combination of his 3 better ones. These 3 are not excellent. Thy require skill, and dont automatically make him better, unlike c33 or MDR.

The "hard gameplay" we love is curving, and without these addons the survivor needs to make significant mistakes to get curved. So if we nerf the good curving addons, we wont curve nearly as much. Which is sad, because most billys and most survivors like curves.

Don't just take my word for it:

Kyto did a community poll, in which Billy came out as the second most fun Killer to verse,
Demi and Scottjund made a video each where he placed him in S-tier of theirfun to verse Tier list,
AZHYMOVS made a community poll where Billy was also Second in ranking, He provided this graph as well.

Now I want to ask, why do you think he needs a rework and not a Buff?

in I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer. Comment by Notionless March 26, 2023

most good reggression perks got obliterated, this isnt one-sided. Although i do agree that for altruistic healing 24s is ridicoulus.

Healing someone else should take 16s, and only self heal should take more time, which was the frustrating bit for killers. as long as they add that little caviat i think it'll be fine?

in The final nail in the coffin for Solo queue players. Comment by Notionless March 25, 2023

@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381180#Comment_3381180
lmao. Dark souls is the worst example you could use cause I know that game like my own hands.
First. hard is not a synonym for bad, but it certainly depends on how hard. Hillbilly certainly is outside any standard at this point.
Seconds. Dark souls have incredibly easy mechanics, there are no slide around a bush to get increased damage.
third. We certainly have to rework a Killer at some point. Besides like so many have told me in this thread, you can just play a different killer when that happens, yourself.
Should we keep Twins like they are forever cause it makes a few people happy? No this is a game, for many people and if the power is just too bad or too old. Just can it and move on. Its so simple. I used to Main old Freddy, I didnt bat a eye over that.

with Twins sure, a rework probably wouldnt make anyone that mad. Her kit is flawed in concept. But twins was never really as popular billy as was. Eventhough she's rarer, most players are more excited to see billy than twins.

The foundation for a great killer is still there, it was built upon poorly.

If, in theory, dark souls was too strict with its inputs, it would also not be as good as it is currently. But wouldn't you agree that instead of saying "bad game, change concept", the best solution would be to make them less strict to hit the sweetspot of difficulty?

Thats the situation were in. Make billy less punishing, and it's perfect.

Thats why theres such an uproar about this change: instead of going in that direction, theyre removing the possibilty for players to bridge that gap with skillful application of these addons themselves.

in I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer. Comment by Notionless March 25, 2023

@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380904#Comment_3380904
Im certain if CS made a gun and people didnt get kills with it until after using it for 100h, then they would admit they made a mistake. but in DbD land you guys think that cause for celebration. (its not)

have you heard of the deagle? the gun thats celebrated for requiring a lot raw skill along with good gamesense? I personally still suck with it, eventhough i regularly use it., and i already have 1.8k hrs invested

Its objectively mediocre balance wise but fun as hell to use, prolly due to the potential lethality. Kind of reminds me of a certain killer.

hard is not a synonym for bad.

Billy is the darks souls killer, dont like dark souls, thats fine, there are a ton of other great options. But why would you want to take dark souls away from the few veterans it entertains?

in I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer. Comment by Notionless March 25, 2023

@AyyLmao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379941#Comment_3379941
Literally who? Ah yes it's irrelevant when the things you used as justifications and validation are called out for being bs. Love that approach.
What interaction? Watching the billy waltz back and forth on the spot then saw 180 degrees around a tile he shouldn't be able to?
Snore.

My god. The 11k hours even imply that he has seen most of the games developement.

The number of matches against m1 killers, all of which use the same mindgames, wether its pig, trapper, legion, etc...

Prefers if Killers are less variable, in essence if his experience ingame stands out less with each passing day...

By interduction, I assume you find most killers with variable mindgames boring.

After 11k hours, he prefers Killers to feel more similar, instead of hoping for variable experiences.

This absolute menace of a survivor likely prefers m1 on gens over actual looping.

Magnificent, this has to be the most successful trolls of this entire website.

in I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer. Comment by Notionless March 24, 2023

@Remedicist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377230#Comment_3377230
My idea for Shadowborn is to, given its name, spawn in the match with the undetectable status effect:
Shadowborn
Begin the trial with the undetectable status effect
Effect lasts for 60/90/120 seconds
(Maybe make it disable upon downing a survivor, depends)

bro dropped the hardest stealth drift billy perk and thought we wouldnt notice

in Why do Survivors get accessibility and QoL changes but Killers can’t even get an FoV slider? Comment by Notionless March 24, 2023

@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379400#Comment_3379400
Well I'm glad I can introduce you to a different point of view, but its beyond weird you say you never have met anyone who didn't like playing against current Hillbilly. Even so how you say he is insufferable to play yet say its a "my problem" when I played him for 5 hours and quit.
Yes. Any killer you have to play more 5 hours with to do anything with really bad way to treat a product. Nurse too.

I agree partially, but that isn't the consequence of gentlemen who're able to land absolutelly rancid curves, it's a result of problems that bother the beginner more than the expert IMO.

Overheat is mostly a non-factor for experienced players, newer player constantly get put on cooldown.
great billy dont bump into objects nearly as often as beginners, who suffer from 5 sec stuns every second stride.
players aware of what objects have good and bad collision know where and where not to chase, inexperienced billy players will undoubtedly have to learn that bushes = danger the hard way.

The overheat one is addressed a little in this update, which is nice.

Overall, these have nothing to do with "pro-billys", rather, they're somewhat of an inspiration, showing that one can overcome these problems. If those stop playing, we wont see the really fun sides of billy anymore. the amount of mindgames that occur at one filler pallet is peak survivor chase gameplay to me.

in I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer. Comment by Notionless March 24, 2023

I think the thought process was:

"Billys with the highest killrate always use these addons! We should nerf them, they must be too strong"

without taking a closer look as to why they're used in the first place:

"Billys with the highest killrate always use these addons! Why? hmm, they like curving eventhough it isnt the most optimal gameplay option. It must be just that fun. Let's keep it."

Also: this fine gentleman has already suffered from the tragedy that was skybilly's removal. Another thing that is inherently off meta and enjoyable to play look at and watch unfold for any side, sepctator, survivor, and killer.

in I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer. Comment by Notionless March 24, 2023

Boy are you gonna be happy reading the patchnotes

in Why Does The Lightburn Mechanic Exist? Comment by Notionless March 24, 2023

If i play optimally (proxy camp, tunnel, forcing 3 gens), im bad, and if i dont, im not playing optimally -> poorly.

When are killers good? Only when its nurse, who can commit to chases other killers dream of and finish in 10 secs?

in This game has a serious problem Comment by Notionless March 9, 2023

i think a lot of trapper mains would cry tears of blood if that update ever happened.

in DH, replace the endurance Comment by Notionless February 14, 2023

I agree with your primary point, and this plagues nearly every killer and their playerbase.

this has happened to me with dredge. When i started toying with him, i thought that unless you go full meta you don't have a chance, but looking back i realized that i simply sucked (and still do) at any macro level decision making. I only play billy, deathslinger and sometimes huntress or nurse, all killers who rely heavily on their micro, so this doesn't really come as a surprise to me.

However, I cant tell if pain res is really a healthy perk. It can enable camping, since trading is really good at a scourge, and it gives a bit too much value for next to no effort. I think the pre nerf pop was a lot more healthy since you had to meet more requirements.

i'd change it to only getting 8% gen damage, that would also bring it in line with the other scourge hooks and regression perks.

in Eruption: a Monkey's paw. Comment by Notionless February 11, 2023

one way I'd love for the nerf to have happened was just by massively reducing the time you have while pop stays active:

for the next 20 or 25 seconds for example.

This would reward skilled gameplay since it brings value the faster you get the down and the less a survivor was able to run away from the active gen.

Like other ppl mentioned, the problem arises once you consider how well it stacks with other perks. IMO pain resonance & co need to be adjusted first before they can consider buffing ruin and pop back up to having some utility.

in Can I please get my Pop Goes the Weasel back? Comment by Notionless February 11, 2023

I think any killer that cannot atleast in theory down survivors really fast needs a teeny bit of slowdown just to keep the game under control. nothin too brutal but maybe surge or NWO. Billy, huntress & co can just snowball quickly so i don't think its as needed when it comes to winrate.

in Frustrating to play killer without Slowdown Comment by Notionless February 5, 2023

The concept of the dreamworld so the OG freddy seemed interesting to me, i just hope they find a way to bring it back with better execution.

In Theory, calmly working on a gen, to hearing some weird lullaby and then be summoned to some hellish fake out dream world getting chased sounds fun and scary as heck. Especially if you cant know wether or not he is after you when you suddenly fall asleep.

in Freddy is in such a sad state atm Comment by Notionless February 5, 2023

I agree. To me, the best solution is to make it not 100% precise, just show 20,40,60,80% and thats already good enough info, and doesnt lead to any decent survivor recognizing tinkerer.

in Please Add a Healing Progress Indicator to Injured Survivors in the HUD Comment by Notionless February 5, 2023

@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336934#Comment_3336934
There was an experiment - supaalf - one of best nurse players doing his incredible 550 winstreak on nurse vs Hens's group one of best SWF groups there are against each other. You guessed it, supaalf won (at 3 gens to be done).
The game is slightly killer sided at all levels. Like don't take me wrong - the game can be very survivor sided at specific instances taking into account builds, maps, RNG, etc. But overall, it's killers that have the upper hand right now - not the SWF

no it is SWF. I watched both videos and you can tell that Hens team is refraining from using Bnp/antihemorragig syringe, any perk more than twice, stuff like that.

If a SWF wants to win against every killer that isnt a nurse or a really good blight, they need to just bring the strongest stuff and its easy sailings.

Best part, even if its a good nurse/blight the SWF can still destroy them if they use all tools available. There is a reason for tournament rulesets after all.

in Why is the game leaning killer based when there are 4 other people trying to have fun? Comment by Notionless February 5, 2023

listen, blight was certainly a sociopath, but pig is type to put razor blades into halloween candy, no? i think I'd put her above him.

in Made another tierlist Comment by Notionless February 5, 2023

I hate DH as much as the next Killer, but the new dead hard is certainly easier to deal with than the old one.

old DH let you just straight up ignore a grave mistake, while the new one can only correct smaller errors.
some killers got destroyed by old DH, like trapper or slinger.
the distance it buys you to and in loops is nowhere near as often uncounterable. (goes back to 1.)
the only situations where it gets you far more value than previously is a successful DH in dead zones, the only place where you can actually solidly wait it out.
the only killers where the new DH is a lot more annoying is blight, nurse, huntress, and some other, already more powerful killers.

For the record, i still dislike the perks core design, because im forced to sniff the tail of every survivor that hasnt shown me a different exhaustion perk, but i would rather have to put up with old DS (with the 5 sec stun) than old DH with "nice Mindgame, E"

in Dead hard got a huge buff and i still don't know why Comment by Notionless February 5, 2023

Love him. Although some of his addons are busted like nothing else in the game, he still requires knawletsh. Only worry i have is the abysmal hygiene some of the lunatics that main him maintain.

in Talk about blight with me! Comment by Notionless August 30, 2022

I think theyre about equal, but in high mmr, ghostface is alot more reliable and myers tricks dont work as well bc most people are aware.

Both can be strong in their own right, myers just needs a bit more than ghostface in either gamesense or addons.

in Who is better Michael Myers or Ghost face? Comment by Notionless August 30, 2022

While they are on the topic of patching up some collision i hope billy and blight get some love in that departement, some maps feel awful to play.

in Alright time to start betting on whats in the midchapter. Comment by Notionless August 30, 2022

@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104979#Comment_3104979
I'm not on the "fk nurse" train. I have no issue against any killer at all.
I was comparing you saying that I should "help myself" by playing SWF because solo will always be weaker.
Sure solo is going to be weaker, but there are a lot of things that the devs can do to make it more equal to SWF. A lot of these ideas have already been shared here, and even that HUD thing the devs HAD planned was going to help.
People shouldnt have to "help themselves" by playing SWF instead of solo, same goes for people who prefer to play weaker killers.

I think nurses and blights abuse addons that are grossly overtuned. But thats another tangent.

I made a thread a while ago abt basekit swf, i looked into it and i agree completely that they can change a lot for the better.

I think a conclusion we can both end up agreeing on is that while the changes in this patch were good to an extent, the sequencing of putting this out before soloQ improvements is terrible since soloq just got significantly less fun than it already was.

I thought you were another butthurt dude who got mad bc he cant just play dh ds ub bt alongside his mates with medkits and flashlights anymore and win 80% of the time WHILE bullying the killer if its not an omegablink nurse.

Sorry for my prejudice then.