StarLost
StarLost
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@NateyBoi said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6BHACSQ1UEYG/image.jpg
Please rate it. Tell me what changes I need to make.
So, you've got:
Surge: Not a good choice. It's very weak on Blight, as it doesn't trigger off your rush. Drop it.
BBQ: Great on Blight and a solid choice for most killers for BP. Keep it.
Monitor: Useless on Blight, aside from the slight FOV increase. He's an unga bunga rushdown killer, not a creeper. Drop it.
Ruin. It's a great perk, but I don't enjoy it these days as survivors know all the totem spots and it's really fragile. Your choice, but I'd drop it.
If I wanted something analogous, but strong (and more importantly consistent - that's a must for me):
- BBQ.
- Pain Resonance (Artist).
- This is similar to Surge, and just brilliant to play with. Sometimes you'll get screwed on hook spawns, but nowhere near as often as you'll get screwed on Ruin being cleansed. Plus, it's like a second BBQ. If you don't have PR, use Pop (Clown). The main reason I love PR is that it gives me regression passively, and I can get right back into the fight.
- Tinkerer (Hillbilly).
- More info is great, plus it's the stealth effect I think you want from Monitor.
- If you don't have Tink, Discordance (Legion) is also brilliant. I actually enjoy Discordance more on him, especially as it's almost guaranteed to give you a fast first chase.
- No Way Out (Freddy). This can turn games around hard, and with Blight's speed you can often pressure the exit gates very effectively. If you don't have NWO, I'd go for I'm All Ears (Ghostface). Blight absolutely thrives on info. Other great choices are Plaything (Cenobite), which will give survivors constant side objectives (almost nobody is comfortable Oblivious) and, if you want to get exotic, Agitation (Trapper). Combined with Pain Resonance this perk is a beast, totally negates obnoxious sabo/bodyblock squads and will save you tons of time during the match.
Enjoy!
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@gilgamer said:
Yeah the solution is make the game less frustrating to play so people aren't so ready to DC every game. Idk why people think things that are fun to play and not fun to play against are ok.
Here's the thing though.
'Unfun' tends to mean, to a lot of people, 'I'm not going to get an easy win here'.
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@Jeffthemainkiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759876#Comment_2759876
Since when we know how long it will take with SBMM? Probably only one who knows is that 500 wins Demo, he went all in on that.
I have seen even some streamers playing with a plan to get everyone on deadhook, then just let them all leave. I usually don't do it that way, I am where I want right now -> survivors with 500 -1000h playtime, so I usually kill two and let two leave unless they pissed me off.
Then I have killers where 4-5000h playtime is normal, but I can handle it with those (Blight, Oni, Nemesis).
I know for sure I am not going to let my Pig and Legion get higher.
It's a ton. My guess (no evidence, just an assumption) is that he automated it. This used to be pretty common (AFK bots) to farm shards.
Very bad news if enough people report you - but I don't think people really bother. I know I have the occasional butt queue (where I queue and then forget I did) and I've never been so much as warned.
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@snatcha said:
In the last few weeks i saw a increasing amount of survivors running into me at the start of the match and then kill themself on Hook and killers just afking in a corner of the map.
I saw a lot of new players playing against very experienced players, not because they're so good or not (only) because MMR sucks, but because a lot of good players purposefully derank to have easier matches.
I get that MMR isnt fun, but shouldn't the MMR system detect some of this behavior like complete afking as survivor/Killer and give them a DC penalty rather than giving them lower MMR, which is what they want?
In Rocket League for example you get kicked out of a match after afking for 15 seconds. Of course DBD Matches are longer than RL matches, so you could do it like this:
If no input was made within the first minute of the match, it gets canceled.
If no input was made for 60 seconds during the match, the player automatically DCs, get no MMR change and a DC Penalty.
Yup. Smurfs gonna smurf. Honestly, this should be bannable - it kills your game for new players.
Fortunately it's a lot more difficult under SBMM than it was under ranks. It was so easy under ranks that even some fog whisperers openly admitted to doing it.
@Jeffthemainkiller said:
So far I haven't seen survivors doing it, but I have seen and done it as a killer. (only with 2 killers that I don't want nowhere near high MMR)
It's really easy for both sides. That's one of the things I think they got worse than old system. It was almost impossible to get below rank 9 unless you went really full afk.
That's exactly what people did. Just hard AFK from the start for about 10 matches in a row.
Now it'd take quite a bit more if you are high MMR.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759739#Comment_2759739
I don't mind Nemesis on it.
Anyone with strong anti-loop and an ability that isn't negated by clutter is...okay on The Game, especially if they have a pallet breaker.
Anyone else - oh man this map can be horrible. You have exactly as much fun as survivors feel like giving you.
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@Sluzzy said:
Instead of punishing DC'ers, I see it from a different perspective, look into why people DC. I believe the easier approach has been to apply punishment instead of fixing the issues. Make every match fun, fair, and balanced and there would be a lot less reasons to DC unless there was something happening in life. Every match should have a winnable opportunity outcome so there are reasons to stay in a match.
This would make sense if those DCs didn't occur at the very start of the match - the second someone goes down or at times, even gets spotted early. And it's not even necessarily the person getting hit - it's not terribly uncommon for a survivor to make a mistake at 5 gens, go down - and two of the other survivors DC.
That shouldn't happen.
@Snow_Lep said:
Nope because the moment they bump up any DC penalties then most survivors will just get themselves killed immediately in games they don't want to play. Killers will just sit and probably load up some game on their phone, check their emails or whatever while the match plays out.
DC penalty always has been and always will be a dumb idea in a game like DBD. You can take yourself out of the game easily on both sides without getting a DC penalty, why make it take longer?
An APPROPRIATE solution would be to make it so that if anyone DC's in the first 15-20 seconds of a match then all offerings and add-ons would be returned to players that burned them. Then doing what a few other games do and try to match those who DC with others who DC. But no outright penalty of 5 minute, 10, whatever.
Except that this happens already. And - believe it or not - is actually bannable if you get reported a lot. Not so DCing.
The thing is - if someone DCs, I don't get rank points or BBQ stacks. If I go AFK, at least the survivors can get boldness points.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759589#Comment_2759589
I get near-instant survivor queues in the mornings, then it swaps around in the later hours.
Presumably, the evening is when a lot of people get home from whatever they're doing and queue up with their friends.
That's so odd. Mornings are when my survivor queues are reaching 'half an episode of American Dad' in length.
I wonder if it's a region/MMR thing.
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@jarjargist21 said:
It's honestly dumb that it doesn't.
It would be a touch too strong if it did. PR is already a brilliant perk, just...perfectly balanced and satisfying to use. I would hate to see it nerfed.
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@cantelope said:
I feel like they are on my server. I used to be able to get survivor matches after work in about 1-2 minutes tops, it now takes about 5-10 once I get home.
Whether or not they are quitting elsewhere or are all using VPN to change servers I have no clue. All I know is I used to play some survivor and wait till after 6pm to play killer. Now I can really only play survivor on the weekend unless I'm willing to wait.
I can attest to this to.
In November, my survivor queues ranged from 4 minutes to 15.
December, it was more like 3-8 minutes. Likely due to the snowman shenanigans.
Now it's back up, possibly longer than even November - 5-10 minutes minimum.
Killer has been 2-3 minutes at the outside, but since the New Year, it's been basically instant at all times of day.
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@legrosporc69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/305914/no-killer-shortage-over-here
That call a killer shortage at least in your mmr you have the time to do all that and they are still waiting for you to get ready. The other killer are probably to low in their mmr to face them or they quit or they do like you they dodge them. If they were in the queue for maybe 2 minute longer they would have got a lower mmr killer. Ofc that is asuming the mmr work and all your queue were instant that the other proof
The thing is - there are plenty of other groups also looking for killers.
The fact that I've been getting literally instant pops even at silly hours (5am!) while my survivor queues are long enough for me to clean the lounge while I wait is quite something.
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@GuyFawx said:
Let qued players join a game with a dc but using the chars build they had and give the person that joined a bp bonus for trying
It would be complicated to implement fairly, but I actually really like this idea.
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@Oiry said:
Basically the title. A team that does not get at least 3.5 escapes is basically playing terribly, committing a large number of crucial mistakes. You can technically tunnel the person with the trap on their head, and then everyone will exit to give a chance for the hatch. So basically 3.5 escapes. It doesn't matter the map, it doesn't matter the addons.
You load up into the game. Start a chase asap. On every map, there are enough pallets and structures to loop you for at least 3 gens done. This is where your first trap is placed. If you are lucky enough, you may maybe get 1 more trap, but that's it. You can't really use all your traps, it's impossible against any team that does gens, and knows basic looping. I'm not even talking about efficient looping, no. Just basic, do 1 or 2 rounds, and then drop the pallet. They will still have enough resources to do all the gens without problems.
At the moment it feels like she is INCREDIBLY, and I mean, INCREDIBLY perk dependent. You basically need corrupt or you are busted. I also think you need STBFL, but even with these perks your best strat is to chase the non-obsession survivor for 3 gens. Hook them, then literally facecamp them with your crouch to try to hook trade and pray that the survivor who comes is not your obsession. Then you get more tokens and start being somewhat scary (but not really).
Ohh, and let's not forget you have to hit survivors 3 times to get them, because of DH. Or they just DH to the vault. Everyone runs DH.
I know I'm ranting. But I'm legit interested in how is this fun. Literally, every team that consists of at least "okay" survivors, even the ones that make small mistakes in looping, can eeeeeasily get 3 escapes guaranteed. I think when a killer is so dependent on perks and even with perks you only get a kill, if survivors do major mistakes, maybe it'd be nice to get some base kit value? Like 1 trap starts on a survivor or smth. Am I missing smth? At this point I feel like Clown is 3 times more powerful. [BAD WORD] Clown!
Please share your thoughts, guys.
Sadly, Pig's addons make her a killing machine at low MMRs, and with BHVR balancing around gross kill rates in isolation, she'll probably never get the buffs she needs.
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Killer: NOED.
Survivor: Literally a coinflip between Dead Hard and CoH.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759099#Comment_2759099
Shouldn't be any decay imo. Any leniency will be used against them when possible and you even have to consider people could have multiple accounts they play on. A heavy hand is truly necessary to get people playing who actually want to play and not leave just because they lost a chase.
You have to have a decay, otherwise someone has a bad run of internet issues - plays for a year without issues then has to DC because a hacker is taking the game hostage and gets permabanned.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Killer mains are a sensitive group of individuals, I suppose. Low self esteem that survivor mains take advantage of at every turn. I feel bad for them, I genuinely do. But it is up to them to solve this problem they have.
...
You know, I'm honestly not sure if you are serious here.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759066#Comment_2759066
I shouldn't have to say that a lot of stuff in DbD should be server sided anyway... but I also understand maybe not everyone can afford that level of effort.
In either case if we ignore the potential hackers in the game then we can just bump up the leaving penalty because that's going to hurt players the most.
And no I dont mean make sure they can still play but get less BP... no, make sure they cant play at all if they're just going to leave their teams behind like that.
No one deserves to have to deal with that.
DbD is a little indie game that exploded, and the devs are still playing catch up. I don't think they can make it server sided.
LoL completely fixed the DC issue with LeaverBuster. A pretty simple system - if you DC once in a blue moon, you won't even notice it. If you start DCing a lot proportional to the games you play out (that's the key) - you start getting warned. If it continues, you get banned for a day. Then 3 days. Then a week. Then 2 weeks. Finally, you get permabanned.
If you manage to play a decent amount of games without DCing, this penalty decays.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
There's a lot of perks that require no skill to use. Ruin, Undying, Endfury, Sprint Burst, Inner Healing, PGTW, NOED, Lithe, Balanced Landing, Brutal Strength, Agitation, the list goes on.
In fact almost every single perk in the game doesn't require any skill to use, despite it's strength. I don't consider getting a down as a killer a skill, it's just natural progression of the game.
Until they start making perks that pop up math problems before you can use them, there's little to be done in the way of any perks requiring any amount of skill to use them.
Firstly, whataboutism always means you concede the original point.
Secondly: Ruin is fragile and unreliable.
Undying isn't even that common these days (a lot of killers have moved over to Pop or PR based plays).
Endfury?
Sprint Burst requires a fair amount of skill to use and is nowhere near as oppressive as DH can be when people abuse validation.
Inner Healing...actually requires some decision making. Ditto Lithe and BL.
The issue isn't that DH 'doesn't require skill to use' - it's that it's just too powerful. There is a reason why you see it on every survivor starting at intermediate MMR, and why you don't see much Lithe or BL these days. Having a defacto third health state that can also completely negate killer powers is ridiculous.
@Bigbawi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759070#Comment_2759070
I don't mind Decisive Strike and you're right, this was a defacto extra life a year ago lol. I also noticed Iron Will being used way more often these days. As a Jake main who's been playing since the game was in BETA in summer of 2016, I find it funny to see so many people jump on the Iron Will bandwagon 😄
Iron Will got a huge buff recently, and now it's one of the most stealth-OP perks in the game. As you get better as killer, a huge amount of information comes from audio. Iron Will completely negates this and has zero counterplay. At higher MMRs, it's a ridiculous advantage.
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@ActualPainedFrog said:
This is by far my biggest pet peeve in the entire game. I get that most people do it with good intentions, but the select few people who make me walk to them and bm me as I force them out really get to me. So typically what I do is afk in the basement, but of course, the survivors being the lovely individuals they are, will sit there for the entire 2 minutes and hold me hostage in the match. If you want to hit me hook, fine, if you want to teabag me after dropping a pallet, that's fine too, but when you literally waste my time, that's when I get upset, and the justification that "the killer can end it when they want to" just simply doesn't work when some killers don't want to deal with needless toxicity.
I don't think that most people do it with good intentions.
Nearly all the time it's done to be BM and gloat at the killer. It's always teabag teabag flicky flicky pretend to give a last courtesy hit and then Dead Hard out of the gate.
These days I just ignore the gate, or I'll wait just outside (if I'm playing a small TR or stealth killer) - about 50% of the time, a survivor will be so desperate to taunt me that they'll pop out and get a surprise...
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@Bigbawi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759052#Comment_2759052
That's very accurate - in every game I play as if every survivor has Dead Hard + Decisive Strike + Burrowed Time (aka The "I'm Skilless" Build). It's become very predictable and it's also getting a bit boring because of that.
I don't see DS as much as I did a year ago (back when it was a defacto extra life), but I still see it a fair amount. I don't mind DS for the most part, unless people are abusing lockers to force it.
I tend to see:
Dead Hard+CoH+Iron Will+BT for the most part. Sometimes replace CoH with Kindred or BT with WOO.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/305767/the-dc-epidemic-is-there-a-solution
Well first they have to fix all of the hacker issues with EGC and instantly escaping a match when all the conditions aren't properly met... but when they do that they can up the penalty for leaving to 10m. I doubt very seriously anyone wants to wait 10m before they can queue up to play survivor again. 5m is a slap on the wrist basically.
There are some fixes to vulnerabilities coming in 5.5, which will hopefully help.
That said - you'll never prevent hacking. Hacking has become so sophisticated and such a big money industry that even games with expensive, proprietary anti-cheat systems tend to have hacker epidemics. The only ones that manage to avoid this tend to have almost everything serverside (LoL) or incredibly aggressive penalties for hacking (Overwatch MAC bans on a first offense - you'll never play the game on that PC again).
If you can afford 80 bucks a month, you can probably buy a hacking suite for the game of your choice.
It...sucks, but you can't balance your game around it.
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@AngyKiller said:
Because some Survivors feel they have a right to write and enforce made-up rules that allow them to win. If the Killer wins; they clearly broke these rules, and the win does not count. Oh, and the Killer should be shunned. 🙃
Bingo.
@lauraa said:
Had a ttv lobby so I decided to put on my Sunday Best. I had a feeling I'd get out gamered with Iron Will so I took preventative measures and slapped on Dried Cherry Blossom even though I suck with that addon.
Sure enough, a Claudette tries to make cheeky Iron Will plays. She was a good looper but she relied too much on her perk to carry her which is the reason she died.
I watch the stream and Claud was L I V I D the whole match. The Feng streamer was all like " This Spirits a decent looper! I sure wish I knew how to play against Spirit!" but Mr. Iron Will is just going on and on saying "addons. Addons. ADDONS. SHES RUNNING THE ADDONS" and said "This Spirit is cringeworthy at best"
I feel like this kind of a double standard here. I dont fault anybody for running IW, but why is it ok to have a crucial part of my kit invalidated, but when I choose to do the same thing, I am Hitler Reborn?
You weren't meant to spend the whole game injured with Dead Hard ready to go, but that exists so I just have to deal with it.
The only reason I feel compelled to use this addon is specifically for Iron Will. If people didnt run IW, I would never consider this addon. Spirits kit was designed around audio tracking, so all this addon does is force you to loop me normally. And plenty of people do just fine looping me with no Iron Will.
I'm not saying Survivor Bad, I'm just tired of constant double standards.
This addon does tremendously change how Spirit functions, but why do people obsess over this addon and say its busted, broken and shouldn't exist when the other side can just flip the script on you and do the same thing?
If knowing where people in Phase is is such a huge deal, then let's remove all Survivor audio and visual cues in Phase so all survivors are equal and perks are irrelevant during the phase.
Shrug.
Get used to it.
People will complain if you don't let them heal.
People will complain if you run meta perks or play a meta killer.
People will complain if you don't 'play normally' ie. don't run meta perks or play a meta killer.
There is an expectation at the back of every survivor player's head that they will escape, and that anything that happens to make this more difficult is the killer being cheap/cheesy/abusive in some way.
It's Dunning-Kreuger syndrome personified.
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@Bigbawi said:
New to the forums but I had to make an account to post this.
I'm someone who plays regularly as both survivors and killers - not the best but not the worst with either and quite impartial when it comes to both camps.
Not sure if anyone mentioned this but Dead Hard has got to be the most overused, overpowering and broken perk in the game. I'm sure you could maybe say the same about 1-2 perks but, in my opinion, this is it.
While I like the idea of Dead Hard - basically being able to duck a hit in the last second, I say the perk is broken because it removes any skill associated with using it. If anything, it promotes being bad at using it as that's when you get the most out of it and what makes the perk be so overpowering - having a hit connect yet not doing any damage because the survivor activated it too late (whether on purpose or not) and therefore 1. it defeats the purpose of the perk (i.e. ducking a hit as you're basically TAKING a hit) and 2. the perk is overpowering and takes no skill to use (I'm saying this having tried it out - it's very easy to get away with not being injured by a hit if you trigger it late).
I just had a game where I landed 5 legit hits and none of them did any damage because of how this perk is being used these days.
Again, being impartial to killer and survivor, I think survivors do have an advantage overall but perks like Dead Hard make it even more obvious and ruin the overall balance of the game so I hope this will be nerfed to the point where Dead Hard should only do one thing - duck a hit if used properly. If you trigger it late, then you should take damage.
Much like CoH, if it was going to be nerfed - it would have been.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Dead Hard was just made basekit at some point. It's already used so commonly at even intermediate MMRs, that killers play as if it was present at all times.
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@Minecraft said:
it's kinda surreal seeing killer mains complaining about this. after all you think camping every single game is a strategy.
i used to stay thinking the killer would be happy about it, but since you feel that way then i have no reason not to dc against annoying killers
If I had a dollar for every example of whataboutism I've seen on the forums today, I'd be able to buy a pizza.
But okay.
Yes, it's a strategy.
It's a cheesy strategy that isn't much more fun for the killer, and that the devs have said they want to change - but it's difficult to do so without breaking the game.
That said - again - don't whatabout.
The issue isn't 'survivors DC when killers camp'.
I don't camp, outside of EOGC with 3-4 people alive (which I don't think anyone would complain about) - and I still see at least 1 DC every 4 games. Sometimes as soon as the survivors see that I'm playing Artist, Hag, Doctor or Cenobite, sometimes the second I down or hook them. And if it's not a DC, it's just suiciding on hook.
The issue is that survivors DC too much *overall*, and that it seems to be pure BM or sulking because they found themselves in a situation where winning might be challenging. It's not even always aimed at the killer - sometimes it's because they feel like their teammates are less skilled than them and that they might need to carry.
I'm astonished that you are trying to defend this.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758952#Comment_2758952
But all of it makes it, objectively, harder than Survivor...
'Harder' is, in and of itself, a subjective term when taken out of context.
I'd certainly agree that it's more difficult to 4k on killer than it is to escape as a survivor.
An interesting question is - is it more difficult to escape 50% of your games as survivor than average 2k as killer?
@ActualPainedFrog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758854#Comment_2758854
I'm surprised you don't think killers are saltier considering you have been on the forums for so long, maybe it wasn't this bad before but as far as I'm aware, killers have been constantly complaining for years.
A good example of a Kafkatrap.
You use the term 'salty', to deliberately smear killer complaints as being unjustly whiny.
I'd prefer to parse this as: the killer role is more frustrating than the survivor role, which is compounded by BHVR applying a different balance standard to the killer role, and survivors being disproportionately nastier to killers than vice versa. This sets up the very 'us vs them' that you and yours like to complain about in turn.
Rather than trying to poke killer players, maybe walk a bit in their shoes and try to understand why they are so frustrated, particularly at present.
Could it be the bizarre nerfs to Nemesis and Twins in 5.5, with no reasoning or apparent logic behind it?
Could it be that CoH and Dead Hard, two perks that basically everyone and their mum agree are ridiculously overpowered aren't changed - and Dead Hard actually received a defacto buff not so long ago?
Could it be that certain killers (Freddy, Ghostface, Legion etc.) have been left to moulder for years, without even a small buff or adjustment that doesn't come to a wash or a nerf?
Nah, couldn't be. Killer mains just be salty.
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@TruffleTurtle said:
It was the only way to really be able to hit people with victor who would continually circle around objects because the charge isn't fast enough. Now it's even harder with the nerf
I'll tell you what the 95% likely answer is - and you aren't going to like it.
BHVR changed it because it was used far more commonly than other Twins addons. Ditto Marvin's Blood on Nemesis, and I'd wager dollars to donuts that a certain Artist brown is going to get nerfed in 6.0 for the same reason. Not because these addons are too strong - but because the other addons aren't all that attractive, or it gives a huge QOL boost leading to it being chosen more by experienced players, which would also correlate with a higher kill rate.
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@Kurri said:
Or casual players are just stating the fact that the Killer role is unfun and unfair to play.
What kind of backwards toxic manipulation is "We all have seen our fair share of these "us vs them" threads, we see them every day, but many of you might have already noticed that such threads made by killer mains are greatly prevailing". You start off talking against "us vs them", and then lead into just assuming every person who has a problem with the killer role to be a killer main.
Bingo.
Again, if one side in a game is balanced differently to the other side - then you don't get to clutch your pearls when that side becomes annoyed at the other side. Double standards tend to annoy people.
Killer complaints are more prevalent on these forums than survivor complaints. You can look at it and go 'well, killers are just whiny' - but if you apply a tiny amount of common sense, you could also go 'there is something about the killer role that makes players unhappy with the game compared to the survivor role'.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758966#Comment_2758966
I never said DCing were not a problem. I just told someone to be a man when they tried to claim camping & tunneling were valid reasons to DC.
That's like a Killer saying 'Doing gens with toolboxes is toxic! Stop doing that I'll stop DCing!'
I was agreeing with you mate :).
I'm saying that - yes - if someone wants to make this an 'us vs. them' issue, then I'm perfectly happy to - because rage DCs are overwhelmingly a survivor thing.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758952#Comment_2758952
You also forgot 'Random Survivor buffs hidden in quality of life changes' like the 1 second (6%) wriggle speed buff in the changed wriggle mechanic.
Never happens for Killers, however. It's like the devs literally can't push an update without giving Survivors something to ensure they don't whine.
Dead Hard validation is another.
The perk was already omnipresent in any game from intermediate MMRs and up to the extent that killers subconsciously play as if it were there - and then they 'fixed' it, which amounted to a huge buff to an already strong perk, particularly in terms of it's ability to negate certain killer powers (Twins, Demo, Hag, Trapper, Nemesis etc.).
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758342#Comment_2758342
OUR valid tactics vs THEIR toxic behavior
US vs THEM, here it is again
Sigh.
There is a difference between a tactic leading to easier victories and acting like a jerk in a way that has zero benefit besides flipping a middle finger to the other side.
@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758931#Comment_2758931
Where did I us Vs Them? I just told someone to suck it up. But whatever; tilt at windmills by putting words in my mouth.
Honestly, DCing is something of a survivor problem. Killers, at least from my experience and watching a number of streams very seldom DC outside of specific contexts (someone holding the game hostage, multiple further hook offerings and a Haddonfield offering etc.). I've also seen at least a dozen 'there should be no DC penalty because killers camp/tunnel' threads in the last few months, but not a single similar thread from a killer perspective.
Beyond this, when a killer DCs - the other side gets a bunch of BP and can immediately move on to the next game. When a survivor DCs, then everyone else is stuck in a miserable game, especially with the hide and seek shenanigans that inevitably follow.
It's not exactly relevant to the problem, but it is what it is. This game has too many DCs, and it's not a good thing.
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@GeneralV said:
Because it is harder than survivor, so there are more complaints.
I don't think it's necessarily harder - it definitely has a higher 'skill floor' (it took me maybe 100 hours to get to grips with the basics of killer, while survivor is very easy to pick up). The skill ceiling for both factions is pretty high.
I think it's a combination of:
- Repeated nerfs of killers/addons that literally nobody was asking for (Nemesis and Twins in 5.5 for example).
- Rapidly nerfing aspects of killers that were mildly problematic at low MMR, completely gutting them for high MMR play while moving very differently on survivor perks/addons that are even more problematic/overused.
- Overnerfs of killers to the point where they become unfun to play (Freddy, Wraith, Twins).
- Very slow/no nerfs to survivor perks that are seen in maybe 80% of games (Dead Hard is the biggie) while nerfing killer addons/perks for literally no reason besides 'these are used too often'.
- Survivor attitudes and behavior ingame (general nastiness, extremely common rage quitting).
- SWFs not having any sort of MMR adjustment, leading to a lot of one sided stomps.
- Map design being overwhelmingly survivor sided, particularly after the removal of Hawkins and the addition of Eyrie.
When you balance your game in this way, you shouldn't be surprised when one side is irritated and bad feelings develop towards players on the other side, collectively. Nobody likes a double standard.
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@Junylar said:
(Just in case, before I begin: I myself play both roles almost equally, and I'm not a "main" of any side. I usually play as whoever has the fastest queue time at the moment.)
We all have seen our fair share of these "us vs them" threads, we see them every day, but many of you might have already noticed that such threads made by killer mains are greatly prevailing. Every day you can see them complaining about toxic survivors, demanding to nerf survivors, etc, while the opposite kind of threads created by survivor mains don't appear every day, sometimes not even every week. Comments defending the killer side and attacking the survivor side gain more popularity and agreement than the opposite.
You can create, as an experiment, two threads with identical form but opposite content, one saying something about poor weak killers and toxic teabagging survivors, the other about poor weak survivors and toxic camping killers, and you will see a great difference in responses: the first thread will get an overwhelmingly greater support. It seems like killer mains constitute the majority of the community, at least judging by the forums, even if we include that humble minority of players who actually play both roles.
Why is that so? If the killer role is so hard and frustrating, why is it the most popular and represented then?
Look at it this way.
When one side (the minority side) of your game is making nearly all the complaint threads - what do you think that indicates?
To me it indicates that there is something about the role, whether it be mechanical, balance related or to do with the attitudes or behavior of the other side that makes that role frustrating.
@ActualPainedFrog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/305859/why-are-killer-mains-more-numerous
This is a forum for salty people, and killers have always been the saltier side.
I really disagree.
My best example: If I don't give someone hatch or gate, I'm going to be QQ'd at in postgame.
I've been given a 'pity kill' on exactly 2 occasions in 400 hours.
I've seen maybe 5 killers total rage DC outside of people holding the game hostage or bringing really abusive offering combos. I see a survivor rage DC or suicide maybe 1 in every 4 games.
Survivors, by and large, tend to have an attitude of entitlement that killers don't tend to. I think this stems from survivor being the 'power role' in DbD. Everyone expects to escape.
@YOURFRIEND said:
I prefer survivor, but I play both roles and it seems to me that killers frequently get the short end of the stick. Seems to me they need advocacy, so I advocate for killers.
This is also partially true. The devs approach balance very differently for both sides - which sets up a situation of 'us vs them'.
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@Minecraft said:
can't be, there are penalties preventing people from dc'ing
Evidently they aren't strong enough.
There needs to be a backup system preventing people from DCing multiple times a day.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758783#Comment_2758783
I have never seen anyone use that perk lmao. That’s awesome tho neas today have been angels from heaven
It's one of those 'interesting but useless in the current meta' perks.
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@xxshyguyxx said:
It's apparent swfs abuse COH with medkits but if you need a reminder at how much bull crap coh is go against a 4man with medkits and 2 or 3 boons and watch the fun.....
And by fun.... I mean at your expense. It's a pretty great time when the survivors swarm you like flies and you hit one of em and the other bodyblocks you so they can heal in your face again.
It's super cool when you get a million hits and 3 hooks total bc they all just take turns body blocking and healing around you while 1 dude does the gens.
It's crazy how fast they heal. But what's crazier is the fact they know a simple bodyblock from a friend gives them enough time to heal, and then keep starting the chases over.
Sweet. Love playing against survivors I can't keep hurt. Keep it up guys.
Coh and swfs that abuse healing speeds and ganging up on killers rock!
Thanks devs! I'll go snuff another totem for the 10th time. Maybe this time it won't be relit.
CoH is overpowered. I know it, you know it, even streamers who seldom opine on balance issues have commented on it.
It'll get a nerf eventually - as it really does artificially restrict choice and variety right now.
Boons overall need a look.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758721#Comment_2758721
And sandbagging too
Haven't really seen that much out of Neas.
Megs are the ones who always sandbag unintentionally (often via a 'Three Stooges' routine at a vault).
Aces and Dwights tend to be the ones deliberately being nasty to their team, sometimes Claudettes.
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@TWiXT said:
People on these forums and Reddit are often seen complaining that killer mains are giving up and dropping out, which is increasing queue times, apparently ever since SBMM was released, and even more after the Hour of the Witch (boons) Update.
Personally, I don't really think that's the case, because honestly I believe the reason for longer queues has more to due with how the SBMM system is matching up players, and not for lack of players. Still, this game has been bleeding players on the steam charts since August, totaling about 18,000+ dropping off between August and the end of December last year, and lowering the average players online from 51k to around 40kpe day for just this last month.
What I would be interested in seeing more than anything, is if the complaints that killers are dropping out is substantiated or not. Anyone else want to see a statistic sheet that shows the Avg Killer vs. Avg Survivor population vs. Overall player avg ever since SBMM was released? It would also be nice to see how many players switched roles over that same period of time as well, but that might be asking too much.
I'm betting the statistic will show that, No, killers aren't dropping out anymore than survivors, and that it's only the general population of players that are lowering due to either the seasonal average or if any recent updates have had a negative impact on the game experience overall.
Hopefully the devs already have a few statistic sheets like that, are already working on solutions to stop this bleed asap, and get the games population health back up to where it was.
Either way, It's a statistic I'd love to see to put an end to all of these complaints once and for all. Even more than that, the devs giving us that statistic through their transparency of the issue, would also reassure us, the players, that the devs know where the problems lie and are working hard to fix it.
Would Anyone else be interested in this?
Nobody knows.
I will say that my queue times on killer have been literally near-instant recently, while my survivor queues are long enough for me to watch half an episode of Bob's Burgers.
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@Mandy said:
Nea's are the best! (yes I play Nea)....I pretty much will always sacrifice myself to save a team mate especially if that team mate has been super helpful throughout the match - ran the killer, healed people, gone out of their way to be helpful for example.
Oof...Neas. One of the 'wild cards' - they can be incredibly good or amazingly derpy. Nice as all hell or the sort to teabag, turn, walk directly into a trap and DC.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758559#Comment_2758559
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TQLAHHNOT8CM/image.png
Judge me by my nostalgia, do you? Hmm?
And well you should not.
For my ally is Old DBD, and a powerful ally it is.
In all seriousness, 15 months is not enough for you to have seen...No, not seen... experienced the best DBD ever had to offer. I started over 3 years ago, and it is almost unfair the game I played back then with the disgrace we all know.
I've watched a lot of videos from ye olde golden days, and I see a lot of stuff that would have made me quit.
- Infinites.
- Oodles of exploits and 'you can't pick me up from here' spots.
- Bonkers OP stuff like old MoM, insta flashlight blinds, old keys, old moris etc.
- No crossplay.
- Endless smurfing making the game a misery for newbies.
- Substantially less accessibility options.
Everyone has that 'golden era' of a game they enjoyed and pine for, but you have to be realistic. What is it, specifically, that you miss about 'old' DbD?
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@[Deleted User] said:
Probably not new. I've had very suspicious moments where i get disconnected with "you need a internet connection to play this game" even though my internet was connected the whole time. Ever since i started playing in May.
This is exactly what happened. Yeah, this feels like a drophack of some sort - the timing was just too sus.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758526#Comment_2758526
Everyone is terrible and we should delete it all and start again? Agreed.
Politics...yup.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758484#Comment_2758484
It once was the best APVP game out there. Heck, I dare say it once was one of the best games one could possibly play.
Now...now it is nothing but bad things after bad things, in a an endless pile of trash that downright insults the masterpiece DBD used to be.
In all seriousness, there's a lot of things that annoy me about modern DbD (boons, bizarro killer nerfs, DH validation, Dwights) but as someone who started maybe 15 months ago, this game feels a lot better than it used to.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LOUP4R6JO4KP/image.png
Sponsored by paint 3D, snipping tool, and w i d e Laurie.
If I missed anything out feel free to yell at me.
And I should've honestly added some more PFPs to the not bait side, there are some real nice ppl here. I would've added nurse, WGLF, bubba, Freddy, and plague pics. Sorry if ur PFP didn't make it :L
Okay, this is pretty great.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758475#Comment_2758475
The few things that make it worth it are already way too surrounded by countless layers of trash.
Eh.
It's far from perfect - but it's still the best APVP game out there.
It's Xeno's Paradox. The better something is, the more it's flaws become apparent.
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@IsMmrReal said:
Unbreakable.
There's no telling who has it and it costs killers so many 4ks its disgusting. I've seen games that would have been won with 5 gens but one unbreakable ruins it all. Make a counter to it and I will be happy. I know its not going to happen, but one can dream.
The counter to Unbreakable is not to slug excessively, and if you're going to - to ensure you remain in the area.
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@Actionjacksn said:
If killers will not be hard nerfed finally, RIGHT AWAY!
...Wat.
Care to elaborate? Which killer is giving you trouble and why?
Right now, at most times I play killer queues are all-but instant and survivor queues can creep up on the 10 minute mark. I don't think survivors are quitting this game, but there certainly seems to be a proportional shortage of people willing to play killer.
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@apathyinc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758406#Comment_2758406
That gen kicking build is great! I am so lazy when it comes to kicking gens and there are a lot of fun perks I miss out on because of it.
It works like a charm on any killer that isn't M2 focused (don't run it on Nemesis or Huntress, for example).
On those killers, replace Surge with Retribution and Starstruck with Plaything. Trust me on this, it's lethal.
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@dictep said:
do not camper and tunnel and you see less dc. Easy
I don't camp outside of EOGC and I don't tunnel unless I'm getting rolled or you keep running into me. I still see a DC in maybe 1/4 of my games, often more.
@Lx_malice said:
Overwatch makes it so you only earn a small percentage of exp for a set amount of matches after leaving too many games. Why not do this in dbd but with bp?
What better way to punish DCers than making the already terrible grind even worse?
I'd rather go the League of Legends route.
The system tracks how many games you DC in proportion to how many games you play out. Once this ratio reaches a certain point, you get a warning. Then you start getting escalating time bans.
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@apathyinc said:
Here are some builds I've been using to keep the game interesting for myself when I'm tired of the same old stuff. These are designed to irritate survivors more than kill everyone. Do you have any builds you run when you are tired of something in the game or am I the only one who has reached this point?
Tired of Dead Hard: Fearmonger, Blood Echo, Unrelenting, Brutal Strength
Tired of 4 man escapes: Furtive Chase, Rancor, Nemesis, No Way Out
Tired of Circle of Healing: Sloppy Butcher, Distressing, Coulrophobia, Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain
Tired of Flashlights: Lightborn, Agitation, Starstruck, Brutal Strength
Tired of High MMR: Monstrous Shrine, Unnerving Presence, Stridor, Beast of Prey
Tired of kicking gens (my personal favorite build): Agitation, Surge, Pain Resonance, Starstruck.
Tired of getting looped: STBFL, Zanshin, Bamboozle, Brutal Strength.
Tired of losing 2-3 gens before your first chase: Lethal Pursuer, Ruin, Undying, Devour Hope.
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@Pandamonium31 said:
Just wondering if survivor mains/players have a conscience when playing DBD?
Like, let's say you just destroyed a killer, wait at the gate to teabag and make noise notifications by spamming pallets, and then you see in the post-game section that it was the killer who gifted you with Bloody Party Streamers, do you feel bad? Do you have a heart?
I got Lery's as Blight, which is not ideal in any way at all, so any kills wouldn't have been bad. I ended up getting 7,000 base BP, and the survivor with the most BP got 17,000 (for their gen rushing efforts)
I swear, the more competitive games I play, the more I realise that humans are the scummiest animals on the Earth. I know I've made a similar post like this, but now I'm starting to think that I need to make a post like this every day just to make sure every survivor player on this forum knows how easy it is for them to be horrible, horrible people.
(P.S. Hope the 34K BP was worth it)
(P.P.S. I had given a Claudette hatch in the game prior because I felt bad for their team, and I know this doesn't do them any favours in relation to MMR, but I still thought it was a nice gesture. Then I get the aforementioned game thrown in my face. I'm honestly just in disbelief more than anything.)
Yeah, welcome to DbD.
I had an even worse game, honestly - I brought streamers and played Mirror Myers. When I bring streamers I typically 2 hook everyone and then injure only until EOGC, so that everyone gets 30k or so.
I find the Ace early, down him - and he DCs.
Then the Leon DCs and the Jane and Claudette go AFK in lockers.
Sigh.
The only time I've had a 'conscience' player was maybe 3 months ago. Incredibly toxic premade, abusing the Haddonfield infinite (before it was fixed) every time I chased them, spamming flashlights, teabagging and just being jerks. Apparently they'd smurfed their MMR down.
At the end of the game a Meg gave me a kill and apologized for the Dwight - apparently her IRL friend who gets bullied a lot at school.
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@ShinobuSK said:
What if all 4 are Jane?
He...goes to bed with a headache?