StarLost
StarLost
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
It's something in the game, the devs deem it viable and more killers mains agree that it has to be used at some point or another.
So what else make it toxic?
"It'S unFuN" well unfortunately the game is unbalanced and tell me how many thought of that when using the meta perks that has gotten stale as hell ,bm the killer and private message the player to harass them.
They aren't toxic.
I think people have forgotten the word 'cheesy' though. That word is far more accurate imho.
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@Sakurra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768368#Comment_2768368
And if you are winning without tunneling, camping etc they will force you take DS stun just to troll (spamming in lockers) then when his dead hard failed they will usually DC. Yes, please DC. Punish yourself for being a scum. 💁
One of the stats I'll be tracking is how often people DC. I'm guessing it's about 20% of my games.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768364#Comment_2768364
Yeah, I don't think he is wrong, even taking into consideration those are still probably the best, but personally I enjoy more consistent but slightly weaker perks. I just don't like the RNG of sometimes having matches that I slam in, and some matches where I lose all my perks.
Mm.
I think there's also another factor at play - due to the MMR cap and Otz being an 8000 hour monster, he can more frequently get streaky perks like Ruin, Devour and the like to shine.
I enjoy perks that minimize my downtime (Surge, Pain Resonance, Agitation) or give additional pressure to survivors (Plaything).
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@Pizzasauce said:
I mean, I'm all for a challenge but I think I'll more or less play like normal and just observe certain stats. I like the idea of cycling through your killers til you get a win, but I'm curious about...different things.
Interesting. Please post your own experiment after you are done. It's always interesting to see these things.
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One of the things I want to test is how this interacts with SBMM, which might be interesting to you.
If it's working correctly, I'll lose quite a few games initially, then stabilize.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/306538/do-you-agree-with-otz
It seems like he is rating them off of the potential they hold. NOED can be useless, but it can also win you the game easily. Same with Ruin, Ruin can give insane value, but could also not. I can see that pattern looking down through the list as well, the lower the perk's higher potential, the worse they are ranked.
I can agree with NOED being a top perk, a perk that can be really hard to get rid of when the killer is actually good, and gives insane value in the situation where the survivors still finish gens is a good perk. The only time NOED can really faulter is when the killer is really bad, and survivors are really good. If any of the situations are more even (both sides bad or both sides really good) than NOED has huge potential.
Bingo.
Otz is going for potentially insane but streaky perks.
I'd probably value more consistent perks higher.
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@Canas said:
I think it's about time dear Adiris received some love. Do you have any stories or screenshots to share about her or maybe even some fanart? Put it in here, I'll gladly check it out.
Here, have some pretty vommy mommy renders for a start.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TYL5S1QFBD4T/vommy-mommy-232.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0U13JQRQ2KTB/vommy-mommy-233.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BIPD7NSS61RO/vommy-mommy-236.png
Honestly, I consider Plague to be sleeper top of A tier, if not S tier. She doesn't have the top end power of Blight or Huntress, but she's so incredibly consistent. I almost never have a Plague game where I go 'well, there was nothing I could do there', barring some really bad starts on Pantry or Haddonfield.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767698#Comment_2767698
Agitation is very good, I would put it behind deadlock in his tier list. It counters :
- survivors bodyblocking (will happen often at high mmr)
- sabotage
- secure pain resonance hooks
- allow basement hooks (which are very strong)
- combo with starstruck (for nurse)
It’s very underrated.
As for noed being S tier, I am not surprised at all, my main build is noed + no way out giving me another full minute to kill them all while they are exposed. It’s very strong with tunneling also.
I use Agitation+Pain Resonance on almost all my killers right now, and Starstruck on about half. It's a brilliant combo that far too many sleep on and tons of people have absolutely no idea how to play around it. It causes absolute havoc.
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@Junylar said:
Just had a game in soloQ. Started doing a gen with one Cheryl in the shack. Spine Chill goes off, so I go into a locker, while the clueless Cheryl remains on gen. It was Ghostface, he starts stalking her, and she doesn't see him. She gets exposed, runs towards my locker and tries to open it to show to killer I'm there, and then gets downed. Of course the killer doesn't ignore it and accepts the help from the opposite team, like a good sportsmanship-like champ, grabbing me. I guess you can't blame be for DCing here.
The worst part is that such ######### is not addressed by the devs in any way. The problem does not exist in their worldview. Those icons (that probably will eventually get cancelled because it's BHVR) won't do crap against soloQ teammates who only play to ruin other teammates fun. The report system is a post-ironical joke, which stopped being funny 4 years ago: no one is going to record dozens of GiB's of footage and pass the e-bureaucratic hell just for occasional reports which will be ignored anyway. The devs don't see any problem and are not even going to start "working on it™", because two ruling classes of DbD society (killers and SWFs) are not troubled by this. No one ever cares about the third estate of soloQ.
So what can you do when your teammates are enemies more fearsome than the killer, other than leaving the game of course? Is it just the curse of soloQ that will never be lifted?
Granted, I play maybe 2 games of survivor a day before I go back to killer max, but from my experience teammates run the gamut.
I've had Megs who attempt to unhook me in front of the killer, while injured and cost us the game.
I've had Megs who bodyblock like champions and run the killer for 2 gens.
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@Sakurra said:
What's the point of this?
Just an experiment, and something to encourage me to play more killers and get better at the game. I'm also curious as to how kill rates will shift when tunneling and camping are removed from the equation.
@AngyKiller said:
Good luck trying to 12 hook with 5 minute gen speeds and the Survivors whopping 16 second-chance perks.
It's certainly going to be challenging. I'm planning on a lot of side objective/downtime minimalization builds.
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@fblurbg said:
So, I can either choose to play how I enjoy the game, be it sweaty or casual or with a niche or an oppressive build and get told to kms in the post-game chat by Survivors who feed me free wins with their terrible plays, or I can choose to actively gimp myself and go out of my way to play nice... and get told to kms in the post-game chat by Survivors who ffed me free wins with their terrible plays.
I think I know with what I'm going with.
Up to you mate.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Sounds like fun, count me in, tho I will probably break the rules and start as Demogorgon, hope you don't mind
Go for it.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
Good luck with that.
We'll see how it goes. I'm hoping that it'll be fairly enjoyable, and maybe I'll rediscover killers I've ignored for a while.
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@SilentShepherd said:
It's become abusive at this point to go Bubba and then ruin everyone's day with toxic gameplay. Every single Bubba I see, is an abusive toxic player. Face camping, etc.
I think a fair nerf to Bubba would be, once you use your chainsaw, add a cooldown of 20 seconds before Bubba can revv it up again. So Bubba's can stop spamming it. Or, if not a cooldown, then change it from AoE, to you can only down 1 person at a time with it.
There is no looping when it comes to facing Bubba. Every single one of them just do their special ability and get to lunge forward with an insta-down AoE (area of effect) attack that downs everyone and anything in it's path. It's easy to control, unlike Billy, who has to charge in 1 direction. Bubba can change directions during the entire special.
Why does it last so damn long? He gets to swing about 10 times with that thing and insta downs everyone.
And forget trying to save your teammates. He can facecamp everyone 1 by 1 and even if you come 3 strong to try and get save, he will just AoE everyone in a couple swings and insta-down EVERYONE from healthy to dying.
Bubba needs a nerf bat. really hard. Shorten the time his special lasts.
I'm at the point now that if I see another Bubba, I will intentionally kill myself on first hook and move on to another match.
I'm honestly not sure if you are serious.
By your own logic, the problem isn't Bubba. It's facecamping. Facecamping is something the devs will be removing soon, and their systems change is currently undergoing internal playtesting.
Bubba is honestly on the weaker side if he doesn't camp. He's predictable, gets destroyed by vaults, tight loops and clutter. There's a reason Bamboozle is basically mandatory on him.
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@Mandy said:
The buttons are not "dummy buttons" first of all, they flag the match so that we can see it really took place.
The video evidence for hacking/cheating is definitely required, and we do not ban unless there is very clear evidence of the cheat.
(edit to add: could also have found a key in a chest on the map, this will not show in the end screen).
With the stance you confirmed recently on endgame 'smack talk' being an essential part of online gaming and not bannable, some of the reporting guidelines likely do need to be updated.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767990#Comment_2767990
but I don't see how you can nerf that add on, that's a lot of stalking which can chew up time. I never use it.
If you run it with faster evil gain, you can get it up pretty fast. And once you have it, you destroy people. Especially if you build around it with NWO and Tinkerer.
@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767326#Comment_2767326
You say Myers is unfair, and you mention Ghostface is fair.
What about Bubba? He instadowns you even though you never seen him before either. And yet Bubba does NOT need to charge up to Tier 3, nor does he need to stalk you. He just runs at you and starts swinging right off the bat.
Tell me how Bubba is fair. Beucase he is too strong imo
No, he isn't. Bubba is another killer that only really works well when you camp, or are facing newbies.
- You can pallet stun him between sweeps, and he won't break the pallet.
- You can DH tech him at the pallet.
- Vaults destroy him.
- Tight loops destroy him.
- Random clutter destroys him.
Bubba is incredibly predictable. Myers is predictable too, but has a lot more versatility.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767932#Comment_2767932
wasn't there a dude that streamed himself openly and obviously hacking for years
The Russian dude that popped up on Otz's stream a bit back? AFAIK he's still around.
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@DoritoHead said:
Realizing I literally have never played a single game of Pinhead, I decided to play a match tonight.
However, there is a problem: I stink.
I really just need some advice on how to play this killer, whether it's very basic or really advanced. Thank you!
He's a killer that's very easy to stink at, and very difficult to do well with.
A few tricks:
- If you are facing a console player, chain them as they are dropping a pallet. The button for 'remove chains' is the same as the pallet vault button (and I'm betting that 10% of his inflated kill rate is due to this oversight alone!). Cruel, but funny.
- Initially, aim your portal directly on top of survivors as they run. The faster you chain them, the more ground you'll gain.
- Aim chains at feet. The hitbox is bigger and if you miss, your chain vanishes faster.
- The box will usually spawn as far as possible from both you and survivors. If you know where everyone is, you can often find the box quite fast yourself. Some high level Pinheads run Lethal Pursuer for this reason.
- Do not run Franklin's, as some people suggest. Something was shadow-nerfed, and if you obtain the box using Franklins it respawns almost instantly, rather than the usual 30 seconds.
- You'll learn how to judge box distance as you go. Essentially, if it's really close - start moving towards it and chase that person. If it's at mid range, you can try to interrupt it with a hook. At long ranges, unless you are already in a winnable chase, teleport to it.
- Pinhead's whole game is 'escalating pressure'. Your goal is to keep everyone so busy that they get overwhelmed trying to do the box. Always be doing something, and I recommend 'downtime reduction' perks like Agitation or Pain Resonance, or 'side objective' perks like Plaything and hexes on him.
- Your portals can pass through walls. As you get better, you'll find chances to annoy people with this. Pressure the gen directly above you on RPD! Scout!
- If you can get a hunt to activate, go ham. It's the one time he actually feels powerful.
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@Astral88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768065#Comment_2768065
My argument is not pathetic. I'm lining up a point which is pathetic. Crying about something cause you lack the skill and knowledge about it. I have had good matches on this map as killer and as survivor. It's all about putting enough pressure and do correct micro decisions which puts you in advantageous position. If you fail on it, then it's not a reason for a nerf. It's more likely, improve your own gameplay and do better the next time.
The issue isn't skill.
The nature of the reworked Game map means that either you are playing a killer with the ability to deal with a ton of safe pallets and you crush, or a killer that isn't good against safe pallets and you lose at the selection screen.
That's poor design.
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@DyingWish92 said:
His kill rate is definitely inflated from people using his tombstone add ons and infinite tier 3. Please buff this killers base kit and do what you want with his crazy add ons but he needs a buff!!!
Nothing has been done to improve this killer minus a couple add on buffs recently.
I agree. Tombstone and his infinite T3 iri are inflating his numbers. These need a nerf and he needs a buff baseline (and let 'stalk juice' recharge).
That said, there are killers that need more help first. At least he can be strong.
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@Gigante said:
Why is the game still the way it is? 200 million pallets at every turn, how is that fair to any killer? Why the hell did Behaviour come to the conclusion that it would be fair to both sides?
This map is ridiculous and depressing to try to loop, because the survivor just drops the pallet and runs half a meter and he already finds 10 more pallets to loop.
I wanted a logical reason why Behavior left it that way because it doesn't make any sense to have this absurd amount of pallets on a map.
Yeah.
It needed a change, but as it stands it's a frustrating map on a lot of killers.
@Sepex said:
Apparently the influx of pallets is due to very few window vaults...so I hear.
Not that I'm arguing the map is just downright obnoxious against competent players.
The issue isn't really just 'lots of pallets'.
It's that almost all the pallets are stupidly safe, so you're not just getting them out of the way - you're being run around them forever while trying to force the drop.
It also has pretty predictable gen spawns.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768018#Comment_2768018
Uhhh, actually yes. BT/DS are kinda required to beat a camping and tunneling killer. Like the killers who start the camping at 4-5 gens left with a mori ready to go so they can ignore the DS after camping someone to half. Those are exactly the people who you need it for, especially if they are playing a top tier killer on top of it all.
If I don't bring BT into a game as a solo survivor I basically accept I am willing to let my teammates die if the killer starts to camp. Bodyblocking and such only gets you so far, especially if the killer is straight facecamping and you are the only person in position to make the save.
That's like saying 'CI and NWO are needed to beat a stacked SWF, so we need CI and NWO baseline'. You can't make sweeping balance changes because of a worst case scenario.
It's best to just remove the possibility of that scenario - which BHVR are going to do (the mechanic change to eliminate facecamping is now at the internal playtesting phase).
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@brokedownpalace said:
I had enough time for a couple matches before work so decided why not?
First match is an insidious face camping Bubba with NOED. He gets a down within a minute and hooks them in the basement. For some reason another survivor runs straight into the basement and obviously gets downed. That survivor kills himself on hook while the other survivor sits on the hook for 2 minutes so we can get some gens done. The Bubba finds and gets me then proceeds to dance around the hook and hit me repeatedly. I kill myself to get out of the match and give the last survivor the chance for hatch.
The second match is a Huntress. Somehow a Bill goes down within about 20 seconds and then when he gets unhooked rights straight to the killer so she can hook him again and he can kill himself. Another survivor runs around the map blessing totems until the Huntress downs and hooks her. The rest of us just give up and give ourselves to the killer to end the match ASAP.
Truly thrilling stuff today and not a complete waste of 20 minutes of my life. Why do I even bother?
Yup.
My games on Friday:
- Stacked SWF sabo squad, complete with triple further hooks offerings and a Haddonfield offering. I was on Pig. Good times.
- I play Hag and get a lag switcher on Ormond.
- Wraith on Asylum, I get an early down and two people DC.
- Cenobite, into a 3man SWF of almost complete newbies.
And so on. I ended up taking a break until the next event.
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@IMhereRUN said:
Before I get to the reasoning I intend to, that is sure to cause some players’ heads to blow up. Quick background on my DBD stats. Normally, this isn’t needed, but for this topic it helps.
Been playing since November 2016, I have 7200 hours. I play both roles, but killer more than survivor just to have faster que times for the time of day I play. I dont really have a killer “main”, I play them all. Obviously, I’m better with some than others. I don’t use crutch smallPP perks on either side (NOED, Adrenaline, DH, BT, DS, Unbreakable, Deliverance, etc.). Im not a fan of being outperked instead of outplayed, so I won’t be the hypocrite that does it to others.
Why did I rant about all that info, and why is it important? Here’s another stat, most players are survivors. Survivors outnumber killer players quite a bit. I don’t know how much, only the Devs do. Obviously, 4 survivor players per each killer player would be ideal.
Because I am so experienced with killers…ALL of them, when I’m playing against them, I know what is going to work and what is not going to work, under the assumption that my killer opponent knows what they’re doing also.
Bare in mind, I would wager a good 75% (not a quoted stat, just my best guess) of all players do NOT know how to play as/VS every killer competently. We’ve all watched streams of a killer chasing someone, and the survivor is throwing so hard that we’re just like “#########!?”. I don’t know my MMR, as no one does…but as survivor I probably escape 3 out of 4 games, so I’m willing to bet it’s pretty decent. That’s just solo que stats, SWF will vary depending on my team’s goal in the match, some are intentionally thrown to have fun.
By this math, and this just on AVERAGE, and ONLY my perspective…3 out of the 4 survivors in games don’t play killer often. Which makes these 3 people unaware how to effectively play VS whatever killer I am playing.
People rate skill differently, for me…it’s chase. If you can’t hold your own in a chase, I won’t consider you a good player. Notice how I said “chase” and not “loops”. There’s a reason for that…looping isn’t effective vs. every killer, many require you to be chased differently.
Because of my opponents’ lack of knowledge/experience, I still win (3-4K) the mass majority of my killer matches. I don’t run metas, I don’t have to focus on winning, I just let them make the mistakes and I capitalize on it.
Now, when I am playing survivors that know what they’re doing, it’s a much sweatier experience, but I can still get the job done.
Wrapping up my extremely long novel, I’ll leave you with this basic analytical summary: If I was my strongest killer facing 4 survivors that play just like me, my survivor team is going to win…every, single, time. Period. Regardless of killer strength, regardless of map, regardless of items, add-ons or perks ran.
This is my perspective, and hopefully it brings some clarity to others when I, or the many others say:
“The game is survivor-sided when all players in a match know what they’re doing”.
So it’s easy for me to see the “this game is killer sided” argument…because there are just way too many survivors that don’t know what they’re doing!
Now that you know my perspective, here’s the subtle tip that you should have taken away from today’s reading: if you want to improve as survivor, improve as killer. Yes, they go hand in hand.
Rant over, happy DBDing! <3
Otz did some interesting experiments on this topic and his conclusions were pretty illuminating.
- Balance in this game is impossible, because it's innately unfair. If the killer brings the strongest perks and most powerful addons/offerings and the survivors don't, they get flattened - and vice versa. And this is completely blind and changes from match to match.
- MMR should be helping with this, but has problems. The MMR 'cap' feels too low and matches are still too volatile. Part of this is the system prioritizing fast queues over match quality, especially in lobby dodge situations (which is going to be fixed eventually). Throwing people with 8000 hours against people with sub 100 hours is ridiculous.
- At a very basic level, it's not really killer versus survivors. It's 'are you facing an SWF with stacked perks, or a bunch of solos with meme builds?'.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
A is bad at game, he can not even finish generators. B is bad killer, he can not take even 2 hooks and generators are flying. So MMR will make match between A & B. This will be fair match.
C is love to use non-meta perks on killers but for this full meta survivors punishing her. She will get survivors who are not using meta perks either. They will not sweat and they all will have good time.
D is god at loops. He is good survivor. He will face some killers who good at loops and mindgames.
E and her team are SWF, they are so fast at generators. So they will face someone who is so agresive at game and using full regression perks.
F played so well but he died. He looped killer so long. He is solo-q player. He will not get punish for this. He is clearly good player, so he will not get worse teammates at next games because he died.
Etc.
I can list more but it is enough.
But what we have? Don't die or kill everyone. That's all matter. SBMM really had great chance to make this game better. But end of the day, most of us just hated it. Because it is not looks your skills. It is just looks your kills and escapes and this is just not makes any sense. I am just wanna give last example:
G is killer, and he is playing fair (no camp or tunnel). He gone for 12 hooks and end of the game he had 3 or 4 kills. Everyone have +20k BPs and +pip. So this was not fast or dominition game. But after this game, he will face SWF who will bully him. I can say same thing for solo survivor version too. This is not they vs us topic, MMR is punishing everyone. Maybe except SWF.
While it's definitely got problems (one of the biggies will be fixed eventually at least), I'm a fan of SBMM because I have seen a much higher quality of game on my end since the release.
It's still a bit volatile, but I prefer it to ranks.
I do understand the complaints of high MMR folks...but that's high MMR in basically every game. It's sweaty and has a rigid meta.
@KateDunson said:
Never liked the idea of having a sbmm in a casual game
Why not?
Even a casual PvP game needs to be fun, and getting absolutely stomped multiple games in a row isn't fun.
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@buzzaman said:
I know giving survivors a meta perk for free is quite controversial, but lets be honest, the survivor experience is built around this perk existing. Much like the killer experience is reliant on some sort of early game regression due to big maps and survivor spawns. I think this would be a good trade
I don't mind the idea, but I think both would need a nerf. Half the CI duration (as it stands, it causes a lot of players to just stealth it out, leading to longer, more boring games) and something to remove BT's offensive ability, while keeping it as an anti-tunnel tool.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
We have this perks, so if you need them use them. They don't need to be basekit.
The issue is when a perk is so necessary that the situation becomes 'you either have 3 perk slots and this now, or you're playing the game wrong'. BBQ feels like that for killer, and honestly Kindred for solo survivor (Dead Hard is another offender).
@Gwinty said:
I do not think that one should be given out as a compensation for the other. They address different problems and should be evaluated on their own.
A different version of Borrow Time would be a good option. Maybe a Borrow Time that removes collision from the survivor so that he can escape for sure and does not abuse it for Borrow Time bodyblock-plays. The goal here is clearly to remove camping and that goal I support.
I feel different about Corrupt Intervention however. While this is a good idea to slow down the early game this can quit easy push Killers like Hag over the edge, not to mention it would benefit Nurse, Blight and Spirit just as much and those Killers do not need help. If we introduce a basekit mechanic to slow down the early game we should think about Killer specific abilities or a Killer specific stat.
This is more about the delta between 'good' killers like Blight and Nurse and 'bad' killers like Pig and Wraith.
@Ryuhi said:
I really hate to even type this, but I feel like if anything kindred should be the only perk that would become basekit for survivors. Unfortunately most of my reasoning is because too many bad survivors think they're too good to use it, then they turn around and complain about how awful solo queue is.
One of the worst parts of having it is being able to see those same people crouch in place doing nothing when the killer is on the other side of the map, nobody going for a save when its safe but divebombing the hook when the killer comes back, and so on. Basically things they would have to be completely stupid to do with that same info.
It would have to be nerfed. The killer aura aspect of it is what takes it from a QOL perk to a five star monster. Survivor auras only? Maybe. Killer aura? Nope.
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@Travis_Bateman said:
When he says that Noed is a S tier (5 stars) perk ? Is it really that good ?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6D0YP4TLYVX0/screenshot-20211221-004559-youtube.jpg
Yes...but keep in mind that Otz is using a different axis for 'good' than you are.
Otz is putting value on how these perks operate under *ideal conditions*. Maximum power. Which is likely due to the fact that he's got 8000 hours into this game, and is thus most likely to be able to achieve those conditions more frequently.
It's why he overvalues (in my opinion) fragile perks like Ruin, super contextual/gamesense ones like NOED, Pop and NWO etc. For most players, these perks will be 'streaky' - they'll be amazing one game and useless the next. For a high end player playing at what is likely the MMR cap, he's good enough to make them consistent.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767043#Comment_2767043
Yes because Solos are stupid and that's not a reason to willingly hand buffs to. You should want them to be better players not because they're so dumb that you hand them buffs? And I'm saying at the very top of Survivor play where four random actually good survivor can contest just fine with most 4 man swf.
There is a 15% gap between escape rate for solos and escape rate for SWF.
Now sure, some of that you could attribute to different players (more serious players will tend to look for any advantages, ie. SWF) - but there is a reason for that.
If more serious players go for SWF, that is another indication (besides...simple common sense) that SWF confers some serious advantages. Otherwise they wouldn't bother.
The simple fact that you can share information and coordinate perk selection is massive.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2742599#Comment_2742599
In game comms would do basically nothing for EU players
Asia too.
Which is why, I suspect, they are attempting to do it in a more universal manner - with icons.
@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767043#Comment_2767043
Also if you want to use stats so much when it's convenient for you then game would go horribly wrong? Lots of weak killers would get nerfed
Or lots of weak killers would get buffed.
I'm saying that there is a significant difference in escape rate between solo and SWF, which means that a system to bring solos up closer to SWF level is a good idea.
Just as I want to see underperforming killers buffed.
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@dugman said:
Had to pop in and say I still love Vanity Mirror Meyers. 😄 Just finished a match with the loadout
- Add-ons
- Vanity Mirror - Makes Meyers unable to get to Evil 3 but he can see auras out to 16 meters while stalking and earns bonus bloodpoints
- Dead Rabbit - Reduces terror radius by 25 in Evil 2 (i.e. from 16 to 12 meters)
- Perks
- Save the Best for Last - Faster recovery from basic attack hits but lose tokens if you hit the Obsession
- Dying Light - Increasing penalties on action speeds for survivors every time you hook someone other than the Obsession
- Whispers - Detect if survivors are in 32 meter radius
- Stridor - Sounds increased
So basically I just use Whispers to get in medium range of Survivors, then Stridor or auras to find them and chase them down. (The auras are extremely handy in looping as well, it makes mind games and jukes and hiding against Meyers extremely difficult.) If it's not the Obsession I down them if possible and get a Dying Light token. Or if it's the Obsession I injure them to distract them then just switch targets. Worked great, got a 3k with the Obsession escaping at the last minute. (They just managed to finish the last gen and escape while I killed the last other survivor.) If my Meyers had every perk available I'd probably swap out Stridor in this since it's a little redundant with the auras, but either way it's a fun time. 😊 (If I wanted to improve performance, I'd probably stick in Scourge Hook Pain Resonance. But what's more likely would be I'd lean into the Obsession thing even more and take either Play with your Food or Rancor.)
I enjoy VM Myers myself, but it's essentially a pure M1 killer. You have exactly as much fun as the survivors and the map want to let you. If you are against a group who just predrop pallets and hold W, or a map like Red Forest or Eyrie, you're going to have a bad time.
I usually run:
- Surge (dumb perk, but I enjoy it)
- Pain Resonance.
- BBQ (VM is a surprisingly excellent BP farmer)
- Either Agitation (synergy with PR) or Monitor (even smaller TR with Rabbit, something silly like 8m at the end of the day).
I wouldn't run Stridor (you have your aura reading, which is sufficient) and while I used to love STBFL, once they realize they have it the obsession will be in your face constantly. I now only use it on killers with excellent ability to locate people really fast (Doctor, Wraith) or the ability to hit the obsession without losing stacks (Pig, Demogorgon).
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2764933#Comment_2764933
Solo doesn't need to bridge the gap since a group of random actually experienced players can play at the level of 4 man SWF. Might not be as efficient as the very top 4 man SWF team but it is enough. Killers can't realistically chase 4 survivor across the map. Just follow the golden rules of. Last one minute in a chase then drag the killer away from the generator getting worked on and don't give unnecessary free hits because that's pressure for the killer then just do generators. That's it you win most of your games. You literally don't need to be on discord to do this.
You also have three chances to do this and never mind the fact that second chance perks exists or medkits. Imagine if survivor actually know how to buy time for everyone? That's it. You don't need information 24/7
That's not what the stats say.
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@Lat0 said:
It's 0 fun going against those killers. People that think otherwise either main one of them or are low mmr
@LL123 said:
Nurse, Blight, and Spirit need to be nerfed.
Many killers have a way to deal with them
However, there is no way to deal with Nurse, Blight, and Spirit.
Sock puppet account?
Also: no. Blight has one addon that might need a tweak, but the rest are completely fine. This is a definite issue of l2p.
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@LL123 said:
North America has a variety of gameplay including breaking totems
No tunneling, no camping.
But Korea is different.
camping, tunneling is basic
Therefore, the game starts from that point on killing one person.
Inevitably, the solo player has no choice but to use the strike puck.
But if the team members don't help, death doesn't change.
Whenever this happens, the solo player gets annoyed.
Until quite recently I played from Japan, so I think we were on the same servers.
There are definitely some differences between the servers (Asian servers seemed to have a lot more blatant hacking) but I don't think I saw any more camping.
'Tunneling' is such a nebulous, subjective term that it's basically meaningless.
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@LL123 said:
On Korean servers, Chinese use various hacks. Koreans use hacking like Chinese do.
However, the development team did nothing about the hack.
Users should report it as a playback video.
This game doesn't even have a replay feature.
Even if you report it, you have to wait 2-3 weeks.
How long are you going to let hacking go?
I am very stressed about it.
Keep reporting. Most companies ban in waves - and it looks like BHVR have started MAC banning for the first offense (excellent).
They are also moving to make hacking more difficult in 5.5.
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@GannTM said:
And I will never run it again, same thing I felt after running Alc Ring for the first time. My oh my was that game so unfun because of how easy it felt. This add on makes no sense whatsoever. I think I must go and play perkless Clown to make up from that.
Fang is stronk, especially when you pair it with another strong addon.
What is scary is that, even with Fang, he can't really hold a candle to the big three.
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@brokedownpalace said:
Wraith is 4% below the highest kill rate. How is that very low?
Consider the power that Wraith has against new players.
Then consider how much these stats are offset by newer players (Nurse kill rate and Cenobite kill rate would be my first pieces of justifying proof for this being true).
If you took very low MMR play out of the equation, I'd bet Wraith would be 40% or lower.
@Lat0 said:
I think a smart way to do buffs or nerfs would be aiming at the unnecessary strong or frustrating things a killer has.
If i had to nerf Wraith because he was too strong at lower rank, i would have probably reduced his mobility..not the uncloak part which made him playable at high mmr.
For Blight, i would probably reduce the power charges to 3 or 4 so he would stay the same but wouldn't be so damn strong. He has that power way too often.
For Trickster ane Twins i would simply do quality of life changes.
Make the Trickster throw knives automatically already...you would only have to hold m2, but the delay stays.The constant switching he has to do feels as bad as the old Doctor(for those who remember how frustrating he was to play).
Twins probably needs a full rework. Make the switch instant, Victor's jump attack instant like Demogorgon. But remove his ability to down people so slugging wont be abused
I wouldn't have nerfed him at all, to be honest - not unless you want to significantly rework him to be harder to play well (reduce the 'width' of his lunge to be more like Pig's Ambush or something).
Very low MMR play isn't something to balance around much. It's chaotic and not really representative of how the game is played by anyone else.
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@RakimSockem said:
Bruh just chase them. you're faster and you WILL catch them eventually XD
It depends what walls are broken.
There's one specific loop in the main structure that may as well be an infinite. If they have the right perks, you could essentially stall a match out forever.
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@Oiry said:
This is why balancing while relying solely on statistics can be very dangerous.
Here are 2 killers I hated (and against 1 still hate) to play against: Wraith and Bubba.
Why? Because They seemed too strong, especially when I was very new to survivor. As a killer main I did understand that they are not OP and their potential is actually very limited (especially Wraith). So how I see it: Unless the killrate is some crazy %, like 70%+, you have to not care about and focus on the higher Mid-high MMR. When I constantly loose against Wraith and Bubba, it's my job as a player to learn how to counter them and how to get better against them. Same against harder, more teamplayer testing killers like Twins, Plague, Cenobite or Hag.
Me learning how to play against them and getting much better results is what makes this game satisfying to play. And this is where listening to low MMR data may be very misleading. Now obviously, if you lose against Plague for 50th time in a row, then maybe BHVR should look at the aspect of "how do we make it easier for newer players to understand the power of the killer". And also let's be fair, to actually meet Plague 50 times you'd need a large number of hours in dbd.
This game is heavy with info. But if you want survivors to learn and actually enjoy. Remember, a person will meet Twins less than 3 times in 300 games (I'm pretty sure most of the 1% pick rates is on high MMR). YOu won't learn how to play against them even if you have a few hundred hours in the game, yet you can actually already be at mid-higher MMR.
Sorry for ranting. Just to summarize: blindly relying on stats to balance your game is EXTREMELY dangerous. Stats is a great tool, but you have to be cautious, how you use it. Imo, obviously.
Cenobite is especially weird in this regard.
Against good players, you may as well not have a power.
Against new players, you'll just roll them over because they'll constantly be letting hunts go off and giving you the box.
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2764938#Comment_2764938
Interesting. I watched it whole and this is the first time hearing this
It was in the Japanese section.
"Do you plan to give Killers more BP for facing SWF?"
There's nothing currently planned, despite internal conversations. It's more likely it's better to look at it from a view of 'how do we properly compensate and deal with this', through solo buffs then killer buffs, instead of just bloodpoint rewards. The idea is to close the Solo/SWF gap so it's not something you need a reward for.
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@Jukenobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2764929#Comment_2764929
That's hilarious. And also was probably mimicked from Demi on You tube who has an entire video of them doing that on Freddy's map. They did the gens as well though, so not AS toxic.
Their purpose was to get killers to DC, or to go AFK so they could mass report them.
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During the QnA, they said they want to bring solo up closer to SWF level, and then to buff killer.
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@Myla said:
This particular case.
"One feature we are experimenting with is a status icon next to each Survivor’s portrait in the HUD that lets you know what they are doing. This way, solo Survivors can base their decision around what their teammates are doing, and partial groups get a better idea of their solo teammates’ contributions, making everyone feel like more of a team. This is something that can already be easily conveyed with a quick callout over voice chat, but is currently not available to solo Survivors. Once again, this is a very early preview- so early that we’re still discussing this internally. Feel free to share your thoughts, but please keep in mind that none of this is final or confirmed. Depending on how things go, this feature may be changed or scrapped entirely before it ever sees the light of day. We wanted to be open about this and keep you in the loop: The gap between solo Survivors and groups is not going under the radar, it’s something we’re actively working on"
I think the thought process behind is disastrous. This coming from someone who has been playing Solo queue for years. I don't think Survivor should be hand held because they have the game sense of a potato. I want the average survivor to improve not because they're spoon fed every information in the game on a magical hud. I don't care if this closes the gap between Randoms and SWF. Go use Kindred or rely solely on game sense.
If some killers can figure out Survivor movement without any information perk at all WITH a first person perspective you can too with Third person camera and I have been doing so with enough accuracy to get consistent 3-4 man escapes and this is with randoms. My best memories in this game is clicking with randoms like we were navy seals and getting out alive
Map awareness is a skill and they're destroying it with this hand holding.
Also keep in mind this isn't final but I'm just putting my thoughts out there. I don't want this in the game.
The idea isn't necessarily to make survivor easier, it's to simulate something of the coordination of a 4man SWF to close the gap between SWF and solo, and then to buff killers accordingly.
Whether the final part ever happens is going to be the interesting part, but we'll see.
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@Jukenobi said:
That's a new one. "Survivors aren't doing gens" Never thought I'd hear a killer complain about that.
I've had a similar experience to the OP - a Russian TTV and an SWF who 99%'d the final gen and then kept two hooks sabo'd on Haddonfield, making an entire area unhookable. They used Exponential and bodyblocking and just memed on me for 30 minutes, during which time I managed to hook someone once.
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@Crowman said:
It just seems like they really just want to cater towards survivors and alienate killers. Like I don't think that is their intention (at least I hope), but if killers keep seeing everything they have getting nerfed with no compensations anywhere, then like why would killers want to play?
Not to mention they want to give solo survivors more info to bridge the gap between solo and swf. Which is fine, but I have no hope killers will see any buffs to help them out.
I'm not sure if I'd go that far - even though, yes, there is a definite financial interest in catering towards survivor players due to how easy it is to make cosmetics for them.
I just think that their balance philosophy is headed in a very bizarre and pretty awful direction.
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@Peanits said:
The results showed that bloodlust being disabled on average* didn't have a significant impact. The difference in kill rates for that weekend, for example, hardly changed and could not be distinguished between the difference between any other given weekend (everything can fluctuate a tiny bit from one week to the next in spite of nothing changing).
* This is considering all matches a whole, not individual cases where bloodlust could be used to get a hit and prevent someone from getting to the next loop, for example.
I think that Bloodlust as a whole is a necessary mechanic (due to the fact that there are still some loops that amount to pseudo-infinites against some killers), and can't really be removed until these are tweaked.
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@GiveMeBoops said:
Yeah, they first nerf killer because of low MMR survivors and then nerf another killer because of high MMR.
Just pick one and stick with it...
Your user name makes me smile.
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@Munqaxus said:
I don't know why the Nurse isn't getting nerfed if this is their philosophy.
It feels like this is an inevitability.
@Tsulan said:
Thats correct. On top of that, the pick rate also is influencing the overall kill rate. So the Twins kill rate, that have an abysmal low pick rate, gets dragged up by a few mains (he said it himself during the stream). Which also means, that the kill rate would drop drastically, the very moment the 2 Twins mains stop playing.
This also means, that the Cenobites kill rate might actually look completely different, since he has a fairly low pick rate but those few mains really drag him up.
Now add, that their own stats showed that SWF had a 15% higher escape rate over solos. With a plan to bring solos to SWF level. Which would then result in an overall kill rate of somewhere between 34% and 43% (taking the current stats for this example).
@GodDamn_Angela said:
I'm mainly confused by the fact that they don't seem to take into consideration that the Twins are partially doing so well at high levels of play because they are the least used Killer and rarely encountered so many high level survivors have little practice against them and many of their usual tricks just don't work.
Seriously though, when was the last time most of us actually encountered the Twins?
This is also true (ditto Cenobite): it's very difficult to make any accurate balancing decisions when your sample size is likely so small.
Really quite concerned about this, as it feels like it's going to disproportionally punish rarely played killers without accounting for why they are so rarely played.
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@EntitySpawn said:
So I assume at low mmr the killer wins, mid mmr is split and high mmr is a loss.
I honestly dont see this as a balanced map just because overall it averages 2k tbh and I think that's a bad way to balance maps
Thoughts from you lot?
Bingo.
This is why I'd love to have the actual stats to play with myself - because as anyone who knows how this sort of data works, you have to exclude numbers from the low and high end, otherwise things go all sorts of wonky (and far too many stats IRL are presented without doing this, leading to serious misinformation).
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763006#Comment_2763006
The vast majority of the changes to those Killers were good, healthy ones. Yes, they still have problems, like Hag's ability to camp without camping like Twins can, or Wraith's overreliance on an uninteractive hit-and-run playstyle, but overall these Killers have received changes that make them feel better and/or buff them without making them game-ruiningly obnoxious. It's the exact opposite in the case of Twins.
But this absolutely was not always the case. Wraith himself received so many changes before, and hardly any of them were effective at making him better and not add-on reliant. Then he got that old-Windstorm (lunge after power) made basekit, and then they gave him that current-Windstorm basekit buff which finally pushed him into being good. Before that, he got meaningless buffs and a couple really stupid nerfs. A bit like Twins, really.
So while I don't think they will fix all of Twins' issues I do have some faith in it.
What I do not have faith in, is the length of time it will take to make these changes.
Thing is - Wraith had a few weeks of being really enjoyable, but then ate a one-two-three punch of nerfs that dropped him basically back down to his old 'weak killer' status.
The only motivation around his nerfs was seemingly that he was difficult for new players to deal with, and his new numbers - factoring this in - probably mean that he's one of the worst killers at intermediate and higher MMRs. Combine this with the logic of the Twins nerf and...yeah. I don't like that. You have to pick one or the other I think - balancing around gross kill rates, or balancing around a handful of crazily good high MMR monsters. Doing both at the same time is going to result in a lot of killers being crap at both.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762946#Comment_2762946
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Victory_Cube
Here you can read everything about the cube.
@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762946#Comment_2762946
A set of changes to the game released in 2017, focusing on the way killers ranked up.
Ah, I wasn't aware of the term.
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Victory cube?
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@katoptris said:
It to get your attention that why. If a survivor does it don't bothered with them. I like to assert my dominance on them tho.
Keep in mind that some people have photosensitivity issues (me included) and if you do this to excess, you can make it very difficult for us to keep playing.
I know that if I get a really aggressive clicker, I end up with a migraine and nausea.