AlwaysInAGoodShape
AlwaysInAGoodShape
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@Wolf74 said:
That trade off is no where near equal.
SC is much more powerful than Ruin.
I play a lot of killer without Ruin, but I never play survivor without SC.The problem with making this Intergrated version of Hex: Ruin too strong is that Hex Ruin is already a partly flawed way of tackling the core issues of the game.
To reach the perfect balance between this trade-off together with finalised game balance would be buffing the killers through different means.
Though with this trade-off, killers already get an extra tool to defend them against being pallet looped, survivors only get it after they've been hit.
It's a healthy trade-off in as much that in order for survivors to use their new power, they need to be hit and left alone, where-as killers get their buff from this game the moment the match starts.Think about it (:
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I find this quite comical as you don't even know what my parameters for balance are, I havn't even told you. You're ego is glowing.
Then formulate them and I'll show you that I am right about them. You don't need to get into vaguery or talk about ego. Everything can be illustrated.
- I will show you how your idea of balance revolves around the initial push.
- I will show how you celebrate mechanics that make the initial push worse
- I will show that I can determine based on the fact alone of you not wanting self-care in the basic kit of survivors that I know exactly what you do not understand about game-balance in the type of game DBD is.
Your solutions show a lack of understanding.
The self-care solution shows the opposite.
The Hex Ruin solution is basically a place-holder for making this perk-trading work.But the premise of this post is sound.
Now would you be so kind and show me the "parameters of balance" that I don't know of yet that you have?
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The game shouldn't be so complicated that it takes reading a manuscript to understand. It should also be intuitive. Your ideas are the opposite of that.
When it comes to In-built ruin being unintuitive, I agree. The idea of the built-in ruin is also no the most thought out idea and I only gave it as an example to illustrate where we want to be going with this, which is opening up more perk slots.
With ""ideas" I presume you only mean 1 idea, which is the build in hex ruin.However your idea isn't intuitive either and opens up a lot of space for abuse because it's time-based, which SWF's can use as a hiding period to optimise their chance at winning competitively.
As for:
You really need to work on using less words to say what needs to be said. The game shouldn't be so complicated that it takes reading a manuscript to understand.
Since this manuscript covered the whole main issue of the game and not an isolated subject, yes, it should be that long.
Secondly, there's a Table of Contents (see chapter 1). You don't need to read chapter 4 or even chapter 3, maybe not even chapter 2 to understand it.
Chapter 1 is mainly filled with a part about stages, at that point it's just a normally sized post.That's the beauty of a Table of Contents. It's meant to be used.
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Open for suggestions (:
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@brokedownpalace said:
It's weird to see someone put so much effort into such a bad idea.The idea of keeping things the way they are is a lot worse, thus this is why economist teach you to add a second question when asking if something is good/bad:
"relative to what?"
and I'd take build variety over restricted 3 perk slots.
Preferably self-care is given to survivors > Hex: Ruin is nerfed but stays a perk > Killers gain different mechanics through which they can slow down steam-rolling survivors. But that's a lot to wish for.
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@Kebek said:
The new effect for hex ruin shouldn't be something that is already in game. Better would be to make it so that skillcheck needless go the other way around and faster.The direction thing is interesting, but this would be very similar to Hex: Lullaby, also currently in the game, when it comes to the skill-check speed.
If you'd want to try to do the different skill-check direction approach, it may need a secondary effect, not speed, to drive it more apart from Lullaby yet justifiable as a hex perk.
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@antgnstea said:
Maybe not just one specific perk but all characters could have their one teachable perk as default. Wouldn’t it be more meaningful to play with that character.this would cause the overboom of claudette, since she has one of the strongest onces, although character specific attributes inherently wouldn't be a problem.
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@Dreamnomad said:
Hell no to the default Hex: Ruin. That is an awful idea. There are better ways to fix the early survivor snowball than that.There you have the anti-snow ball.
But we're not covering anti-snowball here. We are promoting build variety via a fair trade-off between the 2 most essential perks.
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To make things clear: Here are a few things you can disagree on:
1. You believe that crucial perks should require 1 perk slot, limiting you to 3.
2. You believe that my current suggestion wouldn't balance the power that 1 gains from it, where as the other gains less from it.
3. Hex: Ruin specific, which has less to do with my post and more with hex: ruin is that it's stronger against weaker players.Ruin is a bandaid for slowing down matches since they are too fast currently and it still fails at that objective, it's just the best we have. It is also quite ineffective at high ranks, so making this passive is simply harming low ranks even more.
So this is disagreeing with 3, which has more to do with hex ruin. Since this disagreement is targeted at the perk itself, then propose whatever changes you'd like to see to it. That would carry over it the Installed version of hex ruin with X amount of skill-checks.
Not only is time an issue for killers currently, but by making Self Care a passive for all you're taking even more time away from the killers as hits become even less meaningful. This also gives survivors an extra perk slot in a game where they are already quite over performing from where they should be.
It only does 1 here not both. Either you already run self-care and your hits are already "meaningless" (cough, they buy you 32 seconds of time minimally), or you get an extra perk slot. Don't pretend that you get both.
The real problem is not that those perks are required per say. The problem is that the game is balanced poorly to where they feel that needed. The solution is not making them base, the solution is removing the need for them. You did miss the problem.
To clarify; "The problem is that the game is balanced poorly to where they feel that needed". You think this is what I'm "missing"?
Now let me clarify the problem that you are missing:
(Instead of typing it out again, Try the link below:
Solution to the Death-Efficiency Problem. Solving the game's Biggest IssueThe problem of why this game CANNOT be properly balanced is exactly due to the type of game-play mechanics and dependancy that you propose.
Instead of steering the game away from being completely dependant on the "Initial Push Outcome" + adding infinitely more tools for balance, you instead solely focus on marrying the Initial push and only get as far as: "Should we increase it or should we decrease it?".
As @Incarnate pointed out, not being able to self-heal and recover from the dying state add to the problems caused by the Initial Push.
Through your parameters of balance, balance isn't possible. That is what you don't understand.
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You like disappearing?
There are a couple of strategies:
The multiple object spin-around
Starting at 13:22
Happening at 13:30 & 13:40Starting at 5:07
Happening at 5:13-5:20You make your scratchmarks dissapear inbetween 2 places where you can crouch around. The killer has to guess which object to circle. As you see in this chase, you can do it multiple times in a row, especially with lightweight.
The Camera Abuser (Risky)
Starting at 18:54
Happening at 19:01Because the killer camera isn't exactly in the middle of the character, he hovers over the middle of himself. This allows you to stand within the killer when hit, preventing them from seeing you in any direction.
If you manage to crouch behind something after the killer starts searching in the scratchless area then you might just disappear.
The corner duck
(not present in the linked video)
This is where you keep looping in a decently small loop so that you can run over your own scratchmarks and instead of doing the loop again, when there's a corner, just crouch in it and hope that the killer walks past you following your marks. (done a lot inside of the shack)
Sensitivity Loop
(not present in the linked video)
When a killer has a slow sensitivity or often possible on console, you'll be able to keep running around the killer if you run close enough, preventing them from being able to see you as they keep turning around.
As they spin, they no longer see you and start running in a random direction. This is your window to disappear.
Confuse pallet
(not present in the linked video)
After you throw a pallet and the killer breaks it, run straight towards the killer and as they turn, run the way you came from.
If the killer is bad, you'll have lost them.
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Self-Care
Nice idea, but I am afraid you didn't understand what these perks really do:
Self-Care enables you to heal yourself. Why is that so strong and got nerfed? Because you no longer relies on other to heal you. They can work on gens, totems, distract the killer. Not half of your team loses time to find each other and heal. Faster healing won't compensate for being able to work on 4 things simultaneously.I understand what these perks really do. Let me explains what self-care(or the lack of it) really does:
The lack of Self-Care and reliance on needing others to heal you is an anti-lower survivor count mechanic. It makes healing harder for lower-survivor counts due to- Needing someone else to heal you, which requires someone to have available time to know your location decreases as people die. This makes people more dependant on the initial push.
- Healing by definition becomes less profitable for lower survivor count teams as it extra borrowed time in % with generator efficiency drops tremenduously for every death survivor.
- Requiring someone else's location is an SWF rewarding mechanic.
So not only is the lack of self-care:
- Pro SWF
- Anti-low survivor count teams
- Making the Initial Push problem worse
- Making healing nearly impossible at 2 or 1 surviving survivors
This is literally the opposite of what we want to see in this game. If everyone would run self-care in their basic kit than that would remain to keep healing balanced, due to perks that help you heal others give superior healing speeds to people (We'll make it), where as Selfcare would only limit the time to need to find someone else, which is obsolete at hooks and which isn't even beneficial when you don't know where they are.
Hex: Ruin
Hex: Ruin is taken to increase the action window of a killer and slow down the gen progression. You either have to power through or waste time to look for the totem and cleanse it (usually behind the gen or you spawn next to it). Your Ruin removes every counterplay from the survivors, random skill checks penalize new players and buff veterans. I read nothing from only increase the progression on a great skill check, so the game will be faster on higher level. And it will be an indirect Nerf to Freddy.
- SWF's are the most likely people to dismantle ruin and waste the lowest amount of time searching it.
- Higher tier players disable Ruin the fastest after that
- Lower tier players disable or never get to disable the hex ruin perk, which they will encounter in nearly every single of their games.
The new Hex Ruin allows you to delay the regression of the Ruin Skillcheck. Only if a high tier player is able to hit no less than 10 Perfect Skill-checks will the new ruin predominantly target lower tier players, but lower tier players who fail a lot of skill-checks will also be the quickest to no longer having to endure the effects.
Your Ruin removes every counterplay from the survivors
What you call counter play is nothing more than bad totem spawns and this too is an issue, because this basically wastes a perk or let's it have more effect on the game than it should be (and depending on maps like the swamp would incredibly increase it's power).
Or in other words: your definition of counter-play basically is the problem itself and creates very inconsistent scenario's.Other mentions
DS =\= NOED they are no brothers they are different as day and night!
They are brothers of being the most hated perks. I don't get what you're getting at? Let's take a poll and ask survivors their most hated perk? Well, that will be NOED. Let's ask the same to killers and they'll say Decisive...
Or can you name a different most hated perk?
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@Blueberry said:
You're missing the entire problem. These are bandaid fixes for the actual problems and instead of fixing those problems, you're just wanting the bandaids to be permanent.I don't miss the entire problem.
Fixing what you think is the problem would cause hex: ruin to become a problem and fixing the problem for survivors is exactly giving self-care to the survivors.
If you put more effort in defining what you "believe" to be the problem then I'll take my time showing why you are wrong.
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@NightmareReborn said:
The title says it all! The devs want to make content for this game for at least 5 more years. So, do you think it will last that long?The only way it's gonna last long and still have players is by addressing the core issues and frustrations with the game.
They need to take a second look at age-old mechanics in their game and rework them based on a comprehensive understanding of the problems they cause.Proper game balance is what helps games like League of Legends create the communities that they have. If such games used a similar mentality as We see Behaviour adopting, then League would have an infinite Assassin meta and after a while you'd see people stop playing.
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@MasonHugsCats said:
@PureHostility Living up to the name. If you dont like SWF don't play it and just leave? But if you seriously don't like SFW because it's the only time Survivors have a decent chance of getting all 4 men out alive then your silly as hell. That's like me saying I don't like Football because I have a chance at loosing.That's a terrible comparison. This is what it should be:
If you dont like SWF don't play it and just leave? But if you seriously don't like SFW because it's the only time Survivors have full control over all 4 men making it out alive then you're silly as hell. That's like me saying I don't like Football because survivors have full control over me losing.
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Your Lord and Saviour
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@PigNRun said:
I must admit I found Wally before Claudette.I meant the second picture as a response to @TheHourMan
There's no claudette in the waldo picture xDBut there is in the first one.
I don't understand why se few people can find her! She's human size too!
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@PhantomMask20763 said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@TheHourMan said:
Also I don't see Claudette in that either. What hell. (Also 300th comment, woo!)
She's in there.
Is she in this pic too?
No, but maybe waldo is in there.
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@TheHourMan said:
Also I don't see Claudette in that either. What hell. (Also 300th comment, woo!)She's in there.
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I want one that plays elevator music while the survivors hang in there.
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yes, I helped @PhantomMask20763 find it. He's my living evidence it's there xd
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@redsopine01 said:
Was watching a hybrid panda vid and he pointed out how odd you have to be 32 meters away from the basment which defeats the point of a anti basment perk and while I get it's to make you not camp it would be nice if it could be either map wide every 30seconds or 32 meters but not on a timer just to balence it so if people want to run a basement build or use it against over alteristic teams they can at least counter themI don't think we'll see any perk that is currently under-used due to lack of power being reworked for any other reasons than coding incentives (like BT in relation to Deep Wounds).
If it were to be changed, then that'd likely happen through a general perk-rework incentive where all under-used perks get looked at.
I completely agree that Territorial Imperative needs a rework.
Not sure if what you propose would actually be enough though. -
@Jacoby2041 said:
With just what you have there I think slugging might become a bigger thing. Since the killer doesn't want them to die and cause other people to get boosts when the killer can still disable them by downing people without everyone else getting a boost, it might be better to slug everyone.Still the idea is good and you make many very good points. All it needs is testing and some changes, as does any idea really.
If we see slugging becoming an issue, then we'd need to track during what stages exactly. If we see that the problem is stages (memoir) specific than we could use the same system to solve it.
@Incarnate also mentioned being able to recover by yourself, (perhaps at a slower rate).
Testing how the game plays out (and how differently it will), will be a lot of fun to watch, especially when it comes to slower adapting players. -
Thanks for your comment! It shows that you comprehensively read everything. Let me respond to a few points:
Pierce: I really like this mechanic and it makes a lot of sense why one who's been hooked will receive this, which is basically a limited version of Hex:Ruin. However I think the pierce mechanic should apply to any attempt that progresses something, like for instance also healing and not just generators.
As Chapter 3 sets in place the structure for solving the issues with this game, chapter 4 is nothing more than my attempt at it through the proposed solutions.
As for my solution for Pierce, it works for every progress bar! The way I mentioned it not affecting healing was in the case of someone else healing you, where as self-care would trigger the regressive skill-checks. In my mind the Pierce represented your own inability to work on things thank to the damage you received.
Thus I agree! Pierce affects every form of skill-checks: Bear traps included.
Chasing should be considered a passive Terror Action.
I also think there should be more terror actions.I agree a 100%. When creating my version of the Terror bar + terror actions in Chapter 4 I made sure to insert something that would be severely limited by the Memoirs and something that should never be affected, being the pallet-break time, because otherwise the bar would no longer have a purpose.
You got the concept perfectly! The Terror Bar will be used to relate all types of killer actions and give them variable power! I hope that if the Dev's go through with implementing the structure for the Memoir, Terror Bar and pierce mechanic, that we will see whole discussions building on top of these mechanics.
In regards to the memoirs, I think they're really interesting and it would be even more interesting if the buff that they got was depending on the actual victim, in other words that every victim had a unique memoir buff.
The memoir system would be great for that! I'm sure that Jake will get a strong tier 3 (:
It's not too unlikely that we'll see something like that implemented through this system if the Devs decided on going with it, especially so now they've announced wanting to rock this game for another 5 years! -
@BigBadPiggy said:
SO MUCH READING!!! IT HURTS!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Just press all the spoilers. Lot's of pictures! Makes things less intimidating.
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All of those perks should give bonus bloodpoints exceeding the Cap.
Weird how only BBQ & Chilli was allowed to do that while also being the best at it.
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Players (in my experience on ps4) due to the lack of end-game chat share their toxicity by DMing you. You can report them for that, because it breaks the community guidelines of Sony.
I have had multiple cases where it gave me 2 notifications:
1. Thank you for sending the report.
2. The report has been dealt with. (in about 80% of the cases) -
@yolistenup said:
This goes for both survivor and killer. I'm more comfortable using the controller and I'm having a hard time getting used to using the mouse and keyboard.I'm not entirely sure, but I think the handicap of using controller is mainly that on console the max sensitivity is too low.
But besides that, a mouse is more accurate in tracking precise movement. -
@DwightsLifeMatters said:
AlwaysInAGoodShape said:I liked the older look of Red Forest better ):
Which older one? U have some Screenshots to compare?
The one with the Blue filter/lighting. It gave this rain-forest kind of feel to it. Idk how to explain.
The older maps had an movie-esque atmosphere to it because all the colours were affected by this 1 filter.
In the newer ones, most just look grey. -
I liked the older look of Red Forest better ):
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@iTz_KilLaZ_x said:
Im only making this thread to discuss potential ideas to mix up the core gameplay. Currently, pallet looping is the most ideal way to stay alive and waste the killers time. I’m not against it, but what if they were to remove some pallets and add new features to the game where there’s lots of way to defend yourself? Maybe you need another teammate near to stun the killer or something? And yes I know flashlights exist... lol. I haven’t thought of any specific ideas that could be potentially implementedMaybe they could add a separate game mode for this type of idea. I just think it’d mix up things and make survivor more interesting to play. In last year the nightmare, you’re pretty vulnerable without your teammates and you heavily rely on them. Granted, that’s a totally different game but it’s an idea. What do you guys think of potential ideas?
I've thought about and am working on solutions for this problem.
You want something else than looping? Well, what about this gameplay-style?;
These are some of the varying play-styles I can come up with that you can already do.
1. Looping (Requires solo or more)
2. Teamworking Gens. (Requires 4 man SWF; you all stay hidden and gather around 1 gen with leader. Wait for the killer to pass and you'll most likely finish your first gen before the killer has even found anyone) Run away with lightweight and repeat)
3. Premonition Stealthbuilds. (As Shown in the video, but instead of 1 teammate doing it, all teammates are doing it)
4. Item hunting
It's all about escaping. Don't save your team where you don't need to! -
The Emblem system is a custom system the developers made to try to evaluate how vital your role was in the escape of the team.
However, it's just that; custom. And it's full of flaws with it's evaluation.
1. It concludes that if you specialise in 1 thing, then it will not reward you for everything you've done as you've already exceeded the max emblems in that category.
2. It also believes that being hooked and rescued is worth more for the survivors then never being hooked in the first place.
3. etc. etc.That is why you depipped. It's a custom and flunky system.
Though there are a lot of upsides to it as well;
If you don't escape, you can still have the feeling that you've won (through pipping).
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@George_Soros said:
There's... too many words here. You saying survivors is evil, yes?Huh, here did you get that from?
This post is non-partisan.
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What about the "I'll pass"?
I'm just kidding I'm just kidding xd
I think the Devs are fine regarding their financial model though. -
Ruin only takes one totems to cleanse while NOED takes 5 dull totems to cleanse.
There is a somewhat unfair comparison here:
NOED as a HEX is weaker than any other hex
Hex Perk that has a delayed activation:
Normal way: When a Hex Perk is active, there'll be 1 Burning Hex Totem that needs to be cleansed to disable it.
Extra way: Cleanse all dull totems to prevent the effect from ever becoming active.Normal Hex Perk
Normal way: When a Hex Perk is active, there'll be 1 Burning Hex Totem that needs to be cleansed to disable it.NOED falls in the delayed activation category, meaning that you just disable it's effect like normal, but you can also prevent it's effect being active for even a single second, through the Extra way!
To add to that, the Normal way in delayed activations isn't the same either. A Hex Perk that spawns from the start has the advantage of you not knowing where the totem spots are. The Normal way for delayed Hex Totems can have the survivors know EVERY POSSIBLE SPAWN-LOCATION for the hex totem.
Of course with NOED we are lucky that the Perk's effect makes up for this significant weakness..
What is our problem then?
Our problem comes from, as you mentioned, predominantly solo survivors not being able to deal with NOED, because they cannot communicate the totem spots.
So before I'd continue this analysis;
Would you consider the current NOED balanced for Solo's if all dull totems and hex totems found were shared as a permanent aura between all survivors?
(For this example, just completely do away with the thought of whether it would be fun, whether it makes sense, but purely view it balance-wise. With the . underlying question; would this solve it, according to you? And if yes, then we've found the origin of the problem.)
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You still use premonition??
Honestly one of the most fun perks in the game!
I switch it out sometimes:
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@Incarnate said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape - This also illustrates quite well why Killers can be struggling to keep up as more generators are done and less survivors being dead.Exactly! It creates problems on both sides!
Either then killer gets victimised and steamrolled or the survivors become hopeless and hatch dependant!
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I think the First Person for Killers and Third Person for survivors is one of the Best design decisions in the game.
No need to change anything here.
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i recently got my 59th skin in fortnite.
Social Engineers and Scientists are organising and planning out your behaviour. Stop buying Fortnite skins. Show them that you're a free human being with a free will!
Be free!
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The Struggle-Phase issue is one of first things my friend mentioned that was super boring and frustrating about this game.
You kind of get used to it, but even people without muscle-issues see it as a problem. It was an un-fun mechanic to begin.
What if, just like in the first hooking phase, you have a bar that you can fill.
Instead of having to press a button to stay alive, you press a button that fills the bar that'll kill you. (slowly decreases when not being pressed.
You'd have to press about 10 times in a decently quick succession to fill the bar and die to the entity.
This solves: reflexes issues, when having to hold it (solution)
This solves: Accidentally pressing it when only needing to press it once (solution)The topic of this post is great! Thanks for bringing it up.
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Something funny I noticed when I recently started using Premontion is that when you have to look around to know where the killer is, you are a lot more likely to fail skill-checks because your eyes ARE actually focussed on something else, which was what the whole point of skill-checks was about!
It'd be super cool if you could only hear the heartbeat of the killer when they're within Traditional Terror Radius Range + in your FOV, for longer than 0,5 seconds. (meaning you can't spin around)
Just the trills!
sidenote:
Would cause problems with already weak terror-radius-condition based perks like caulrophobia et al.
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If in gta5 you can sell cars and keep them with a bug (called bug 1) and there's another bug that allows you to sell your house while keeping it (bug 2), then solving the car bug (bug 1) is not "shifting the problem". It is pure and simple the elimination of bug 1.
At least you are interested now
So you seem to be interested in my superior design philosophy of having the game fix issues instead of using bans. At least you seem to distance youself from Kaelum's idea about proper game-design.
Intended gameplay; A survivor should not be allowed to survive for longer than 60 seconds during the struggle-phase. Kaelum: Ban them after the match if they keep struggling for longer than 60 seconds! Shape: Make the game automatically kill them after 60 in the struggling-phase. Intended gameplay; Players should stay inside of the map. Kaelum: Ban them after the match if they leave the map! Shape: Place walls around the map preventing them from leaving the map. If they still manage to get to an illegal position, teleport them back into the map to the closest legal position.
So now you agreed with my post and we can state that body blocking is COMPLETELY legal, we will go to your separate post;
I, twisted monkey, want to see all possible ways a killer and survivor can keep the game hostage solved. So what is keeping the game hostage? Keeping the game hostage means that the killer/survivor has no ability to defend themselves against the opposite faction in their attempt to near infinitely or infinitely extend the game, while neither side making any strategic progress, forcing them to disconnect. Ways a killer can keep the game hostage: 1. Through Bodyblocking 2. Through the abuse of frequently picking up survivors and letting them go, with the ability to catch up to them. Ways a survivor can keep the game hostage: 1. By not working towards an objective and using the hiding mechanic to have the killer near infinitely search through the map, while not having a way to make progress in their search, as the survivor can move. **solving bodyblocking**: *inserts my code * **solving killers-grab loop**: For every time a survivor escape's the killer's grasp, they lose Y=30X-30 seconds in their dying state bar upon being downed again. With X being the amount of times you escaped the killers grasp and Y being the amount of seconds depleted instantly from your dying state bar when being hit. (Y get's ignored when it's smaller or equal to 0). (Yes, this means that if you managed to escape the killers grasp for over 3 times and your dyingstate bar is low enough, it's possible for you to be smacked to death!) And boom, we haven't only solved near infinite killer-grab-taking-the-game-hostage-ing, but also "sabotage" meta's without damaging normal sabotaging. Combo! **solving survivors keeping the game hostage:** When the exit gates are powered, the killer has the ability to destroy exit gates and the power-surplus by Attacking the gate handle X amount of times. If you reach X, all the gates will close (reverse open animation). The hatch will be closed and can no longer be opened by a key. The game will end automatically and all living survivors are counted as dead (because there was no longer a way to escape). X is the amount of times you have to smack the Gate's handle, before all the power will go off again and can no longer be powered back up. The amount is decided by what we deem reasonable: Since the killer has to be stationary in order to damage the handle, the survivors should have the time to make their escape during the amount of time it would take the killer to destroy the power. (Hitting the exit gates also works when the hatch is opened) **emergency code** In case we missed anything, which we'll be able to solve later we have the emergency code take care of cases that we are unaware off: When the game's timer is over 20 minutes, players who disconnect gain a minimum of a neutral pip and keep their bloodpoints. And now we have everything solved. The end. Thanks for listening to my (twistedmonkey's) discussion about obliterating the concept of keeping the game hostage.
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If the game would be left-centered, we would likely see mechanics such as:
Survivors can be heart screaming from a wide distance from the hook. (As hook notifications would no longer be communicated by the game)
Thanks for letting us know your vote (:
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@twistedmonkey said:
AlwaysInAGoodShapeNo I understood fine and if you had read what i wrote I acknowledged it only solves one issue, blocking is only one scenario nothing more it also need adapted to suit different killers like the pig.
As I said what is to stop a killer at the basement downing someone, letting the wiggle so they can fall onto the stairs getting stagger, downing them again rinse and repeat, there are many ways to hold a game hostage maybe not indefinitely but for a very very long time, and your way only fixes one small problem, players will always find a way and in no way does this solve the OVERALL problem so the rules for banning will need to stay in place.
Just because you think it's a great idea does not mean it is, shifting a problem does not fix it, it simply creates another, in time hopefully you will learn realise this.
The issue: The problem is that by stating that a form of bodyblocking (keeping the survivor hostage) is a reportable issue
Try again. You just keep mentioning other topics.
There's also no "Shifting" of the issue. There is only elimination.
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@Avariku said:
that one simple addition to the code only possibly fixes ONE of the other potential issues that could pop up from this.
thus pointing out that more and more coding would be needed for each additional potential issue. doesn't sound "simple" to me.and that doesn't entirely solve the issue of banning people for breaking the rules which happens with every online game and SHOULD happen.
You're arguing way too hard for a solution that has already been proven to be ineffective, through nothing more than common sense I might add.
you stated yourself that the intention of this was to stop erroneous claims/reports by survivors, something else that banning will teach a lesson about.
and no, a 10yr old could not code something like this reliably, thats why we don't have 10 yr old kids designing complex games like this.
but ultimately I guess it's up to bhvr if they want to employ the usage of in-game coding to potentially solve this issue or not, as it could technically be done. with that said, acting like it's the most efficient and proper way to go about it is nothing more than opinion. (no more or less valid than anyone else's opinion on it, save for bhvr)
Name 1 case where the code doesn't solve the issue. So far you have nothing. The rest of your argument falls apart quickly after that.
Also,
something else that banning will teach a lesson about.
Why should they be taught a lesson for a crime they can no longer commit?
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After rereading I understand where your misunderstanding comes from.
In the beginning of the post you failed to understand that we were talking about killer exclusively. Thus you started to mention irrelevant topics such as survivors keeping the game hostage.
After I pointed this out to you, you refused to understand it.Then you failed to understand the definition, clarified in the Original Post at the literal beginning, which would cover what we would be trying to solve:
(headline) WHAT IS KEEPING A SURVIVOR HOSTAGE?
(text) Keeping a survivor hostage means that through bodyblocking, you prevent them from moving. This prevents them from doing anything and if you don't attack, then you stand there infinitely, thus forcing the survivor to Disconnect.Just as with many terms, across working-fields and topics, words have a slightly different meaning. Some words within 1 working field can have been mentioned with over 120 different definitions all optimised around the exact topic they cover. They are clarified and defined at the start, before ever uttered, thus allowing the reader to understand.
You either refused to understand or did not read the original post.
If you understood the definition, knew we were not talking about keeping the killer hostage, and knew we were discussing keeping the base hostage (through) body blocking, then your comments would've deviated a whole lot more from the epitome of illiteracy:
Kaelum said: I’m not sure what game you are playing, but it certainly isn’t DbD. Body blocking is not bannable, unless it is being used to take the game hostage, thus taking the game hostage is bannable. However, this is NOT the type of game hostage that everyone is talking about. Survivors remaining in the game AFTER the exit gates are open, is what pretty much everyone is talking about. Nice troll post though. AlwaysInAGoodShape said: I already made clear what is meant by the terms. This is about the killer holding the game hostage through bodyblocking (forcing a disconnect), which Not_Queen has responded to is bannable.
However, this is NOT the type of game hostage that everyone is talking about.
^ This is what WE are talking about. What others talk about is irrelevant. But let's assume that you have better reading skills then the person quoted.
What you fail to see.
I created code that solved 100% of illegitimate bodyblocking, thus completely removing it as a bannable offense.
We achieved our goal here;
The problem is that by stating that a form of bodyblocking (keeping the survivor hostage) is a reportable issue
It no longer is.
Here are your attempts at showing this was untrue:
1.
In a basement it wouldn't work. (It does. Just don't linger around in the basement and push the killer. If he walks backwards you walk forwards. The timer doesn't reset when not colliding. It only slightly decreases.
This code would allow a survivor to bypass/push back a killer in an infinitely long hallway.)2.
You mentioned the pig timer. This wasn't even really a case of it being untrue, but rather that you want me to reconsider what the maxBodyblockTime should be.
And I said; if you want the number increased in specific scenario's you can easily do so. I asked you to name a second exception and you failed to do so.
But since you already gave up on providing cases where my code wouldn't solve infinite bodyblocking to keep the game hostage, things will only get more fun:3.
You switched out the definition provided in the start of the Original post to have 2 definitions running at the same time.
Then you tried to inflate Carrying-based keeping the game hostage with our keeping the game hostage (through bodyblocking).The problem is that by stating that a form of bodyblocking (keeping the survivor hostage) is a reportable issue
Why did you even mention basement-dropping off the stairs? Could it be that you fail to understand this post?
What does this have to do with bodyblocking? What does this have to do with the difference between Legal bodyblocking and (currently) Illegal bodyblocking and completely abandoning the separation between them and making them both legal through code?
The code solves the issue 100% and you agree
You kept stating that this code didn't solve the issue, but you never mentioned where it didn't.
The only things you mentioned were a suggestion that you wanted the maxBodyBlockTimer increased during the pigs RBT and you gave your opinion that you would also like to see code for carry-based keeping the game hostage and survivor based keeping the game hostage, but then again, never did you show me how my code wouldn't solve the issue a 100%.
There is 0 way a killer can keep the game hostage through bodyblocking, even in the infinitely long hallway that I mentioned.
Do you want survivor based stalling, yadda yadda fixed? Well, that's a separate topic, but we too can address this with code and it too wouldn't be too complicated. There would not be an infinitely amount of ways. Especially not since we already took out about 80% of the ways a killer could infinitely extend the game.
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As a "plunderers Instinct Main";
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THISS!! Pressed upvote so hard that it broke.
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Increased Communication
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Blindness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7vG49IiNQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR-9oXiytsk&t=1271s