StarLost
StarLost
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@PassarinoT said:
I've been away from DBD since the NFT issue, and am happy without it. But! I still follow along to see what new stuff is coming, and this chapter seems very... not horror. I want to say this new killer seems a lot more like a Fantasy/RPG character, but I also have not played it or anything. Am I understanding this correctly, or is there any aspect of horror to her? The combo of her sci-fi-ish appearance, horrible voice acting, and huge crow heads really makes me feel like DBD just took another leap away from whatever horror was left in it's title.
People who have gotten more involved with this, what do you think of it? Is this chapter anything remotely related to horror?
(This said, I realize dbd is only a horror themed strategy game. But this just seems like it's a feeble attempt at making something interesting that only had horror as an afterthought.)
She'll be nerfed horrifyingly fast.
There will be some genuinely horrifying fanart of her on certain sites.
Honestly though - yeah. She feels like Trickster - like she belongs in another franchise.
Still really like her mechanics though.
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@Leatherface1990 said:
Is this intended by the dev's?
Shrug.
It sucks, I can imagine. But no more than a group of survivors refusing to end and playing endless hide-and-seek on 1gen. I've also literally never seen it in the wild outside of situations where someone has been BMing the killer (in these cases, I'll usually proxy camp the offender out but I won't punish the whole team).
It also sometimes (see: usually) happens by complete mistake. I'll down someone, down someone else, down a third person and hook them.
By then survivors #1 and #2 have crawled off over the horizon (or into one of the spots where you can't pick them up) and you can't find them/hook them.
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@Arbmos1998 said:
I personally don't play Survivor simply because I just don't find the gameplay interesting however I'm after the Rift stuff this time around so I start doing the Survivor challenges and back to back I just keep going against very good Killers with 4k+ hours who use whatever builds no addons but teaming with insanely weak Survivors who run perks that make zero sense who just go down every couple of seconds.
I can see why Survivors say X Killer is OP, this isn't reality it's just this level of play is insanely low. If you spend 75% of the game just running around not doing anything and first gen pops 10 mins into the match of course the Killer is going to dominate and i've seen this now. I never ever get this luxury as Killer my games are just click squads who afk gens in 5 mins, bring maps that massively favor them regardless of what I do, these Killers i've gone against today have undeniably had very easy wins handed to them.
People say "Buff Solo" I don't think doing that will actually suddenly make solo's do their objective or make them suddenly better.
Honestly It's sad to say but I am so jealous of these Killers having such free games where they barely have to pay attention, I would love to have this luxury for a day just to experience It.
Is it working?
The answer is - it's complicated.
Sometimes it works like gangbusters and I'll get mostly even matchups all evening. Usually 1-3 outs, but I never feel overwhelmed.
Other times it'll put me up against literally whoever.
A few warning signs:
- Instant queue - you've been thrown into a lobby that another killer dodged. Either dodge yourself or load up on your best addons and prepare for pain.
- Multiple instant queues - it's not working right now. Probably worth taking the evening off.
- Full lobby of fancy skins - probably a smurfing SWF. See #1 Often has a .TTV in the lobby.
- Longer queues - it's probably working.
@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/294249/is-mmr-actually-working
Honestly It's sad to say but I am so jealous of these Killers having such free games where they barely have to pay attention, I would love to have this luxury for a day just to experience It.
Let all of them escape and you'll get those type of matches.
Sweat for the 4K = teams that sweat for the 4man escape.
That's how it should work. It often doesn't. I'll have multiple games against teams that roflstomp me sometimes.
Again - instant queues are always the #1 warning sign that you might be in trouble.
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
For me:
- Dwight would be an owl.
- Meg would be a cheetah.
- Claudette would be koala.
- Jake would be a raccoon.
- and... Jeff would be a yak, lol.
I prefer to compare survivors types to animals.
You've got the turtles, who sit on gens and hide in a locker the second they hear a terror radius.
You've got the rabbits, who will hold W and zoom into a corner of the map.
You've got the chickens, who always stick together, run around and bump into each other before trying to take the same vault simultaneously.
You've got the monkeys who will teabag and flick you until you down them, then they'll AFK and hoot angrily at you in postgame.
Finally, you've got the platypuses who you have no idea what they are doing but still somehow manage to have 4 gens done before 3 minutes.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I feel like he is still weak. I mean it could be because I play him badly but he can still be easy looped (I don't play add-ons or good add-ons on him). I mean mainly base kit. Also that 0.25s shorter speed boost after uncloaking kinda hurt him. I can feel it on short loops as well.
It depends.
- Low MMR: He's strong. You'll constantly get survivors who don't notice you until you decloak and run away in a straight line.
- Intermediate to High MMR: He's weak-ish. Boons give him a lot of trouble. If survivors loop aggressively you'll spend so much time trying to down people that you'll lose all your gens. Survivors will notice your 'blur' and call it out. He does okay on some maps, but maps with a lot of safe pallets (RPD, The Game) or with a lot of vaults/gyms (Mother's Dwelling, Haddonfield, Badham) he can be miserable.
He's a C-D tier killer. He needs something - if I was balancing him, I'd give him 3 seconds of Undetectable after he decloaks.
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@dbd_dev said:
Relatively new player but love the game as both survivor and killer. Play more survivor. Lately (past few days) Wraith is demolishing every squad I play with (not SWF). Did he change at all very recently? I like the role of trying to save other survivors but against him recently we don't get 2 gens done and 2 people are dead already. I don't think in over 10 matches I've seen any escapes yet against him and it seems he is coming up every other match. Guess I'll have to play him soon to see if it feels any different.
Anyway, I play no matter how the killer plays to the end but have to say not that fun when the match is over and nothing has been accomplished outside of hiding and unhooking survivors until they get the 3rd hook.
As a survivor I always thank the killer who lets up when it is obvious he has the upper hand early on. I see people saying teabagging and I assume that is the crouch action? As a survivor I do that as a thank you, like a bow.
Nice to see other player's thoughts on this. Have fun. Good game.
A few things to consider:
- Wraith is a very tough killer to deal with as a new player. Once you've got a feel for him, he's one of the easiest killers to deal with. Play him for a dozen games or so and you'll figure his tricks out fairly fast.
- Haha, please, do not 'thank' people with crouching. They'll assume that you are taunting them and will do their level best to kill you.
- Try to select a handful of good perks to start with - Kindred, Dead Hard, Inner Strength and Spinechill are very good, very strong perks for solo que.
- Good luck and enjoy your stay!
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@Wampa1 said:
I play equally killer and survivor and find some killers are easier to go against than others.As a killer I find the ones I find harder to go against are more fun to play,without giving any checks would love to know your guys opinion.
When I play survivor?
I enjoy playing against: Pyramid Head, Pinhead and Spirit.
I don't mind playing against: Wraith, Pig, Hag, Trapper, Deathslinger, Nurse, Billy, Doctor and Bubba.
I don't like playing against: Trickster (it's like death-by-spitballs), Huntress, Blight (always jumpscares me).
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@Rogue11 said:
If you're playing pyramid head you could try drawing a heart with his power ❤
I...may actually try drawing an arrow in Hag traps. XD
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@Rey_512 said:
Uhh just drop them over and over? Pretty clear you’re letting them go at that point.
Haha I've tried that. I think they think that I'm being BM, and often DC.
@jubjub said:
Down them, smack the hook to show you're not going to hook them. If they continue to wiggle out, corral them toward the hatch.
I'll try that for sure.
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@RaSavage42 said:
@StarLost I would've said 28m TR for Pig but 24 sounds better... LOL
24 feels fair. She's pretty weak and a sneak-oriented killer and this fits well with her theme and will make it a bit easier to start chases on a more favorable footing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631564#Comment_2631564
Indeed. That one isn't on BHVR though. These sites have been around since 2009-ish and Microsoft/Sony haven't done anything about them.
This new issue of nabbing IP's from the game is totally on BHVR though and it makes getting info and getting more way easier.
Yeah, would love to know how this happened. It's such a bafflingly huge mistake to make. Sony Credit Card leak huge.
It's times like these that I'm really damn glad that I set up my VPN back when I was in Japan. It's a sad fact, but I'd almost consider a VPN mandatory these days.
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@vinaversace said:
Everyone can post counterplay for the new killer here so she doesn't get nerfed! I'll start: you can blind the crows, dead hard the crows, and jump into a locker. Any new ideas welcome! She's like pyramid head and the twins combined kinda. Weaker version of the twins in terms of using Victor (can't do gens with him on, can't escape, etc. but with the crows you can) And like pyramid head (or any other range killer kinda- maybe even closer to huntress) in terms of hitting from afar.
All counterplay facts or ideas for her are welcome! Just don't want to see another killer nerfed into the ground. Remember, this game is supposed to be a CHALLENGE! It was not intended to be easy for either side, and it is not easy for either side. Personally, I think it is way harder for killer (coming from a survivor main who plays killer too- mainly wraith and spirit.)
Honestly, juke her. Much as you would Nurse. Watching a few streams of people playing against her, and she's far from unbeatable.
She's good but not unbeatable.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631560#Comment_2631560
Yeah, I've become increasingly familiar with those sites.
One of them charges $75 a month, but hey, they got my router, so I hope it was worth it.
That is certainly unnerving.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631518#Comment_2631518
Unfortunately not.
There are also "legal" sites that log your IP if you play on Xbox or PS. They hold it for the expressed purpose of allowing people to DDoS you, but don't worry! You can stop them for just a small fee, you can block this from happening!
Totally not extortion or anything...
I...was not aware of this.
Fortunately I game on PC, but will have to warn the missus.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631542#Comment_2631542
"Why not"
There are copious other threads on these forums you could bring that up in.
This isn't about game balance, though. This is about personal data protection and possibly saving people's lives, because swatting has been proven to be, and still will be, fatal to some people. This is so much more of an issue than game balance ever actually will be.
That's why it wasn't the time nor the place for that. Wrong thread, wrong topic.
Sigh.
It may be a cultural thing. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term 'gallows humour'.
Regardless - yes, this is a very serious problem and I hope that it gets straightened out (and that whoever this slipped by gets a month in the office dungeon).
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631503#Comment_2631503
Is this the time to bring up the us vs them bullshit?
Why not? :)
I was being snarky at the corporate-speak. Gallows humour and all that.
*Coughs, serious voice*: Yes, this is a big problem and needs to be fixed asap. I hope that it is and that anyone who isn't on a VPN takes steps.
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'The values of sportsmanship and inclusion'.
Sportsmanship? As survivors teabag their way merrily across the map? Hah!
But yeah, hopefully this gets fixed fast.
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@ManOMaker said:
A lot of killers haven’t been looked at in a long time. Some have but poorly. So I ask, who needs to be changed the most and why?
Oh man.
Honestly:
- Pinhead. He was heavily dependent on his addons for viability in intermediate/advanced play, and they gutted those. His chains need to be less janky. Solution: Make his yellow 'turning speed' addon baseline. See where he stands.
- Wraith. Oh Wraith, you poor poor man. You had a few months of viability, and now you get laughed at and your lunch money stolen by anyone with a boon. Honestly, they need to make his stealth harder to see and give him a few seconds of Undetectable after he leaves it.
- Billy. Other people will likely explain better than I can, but he needs something.
- Pig. Stop tweaking her addons and help her more in chase. Start by reducing her terror radius to 24.
- Trickster. Have no idea how to fix him. His kit is just too hard to balance.
- Doctor. Turn his useless 'shape' addons into something worth using, give his shock validation and he's fine.
- Slinger. Increase his base movement speed a bit. Rework his addons to be less...terrible.
- Freddy. Addon buffs.
- Pyramid Head. See above.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631190#Comment_2631190
Pinhead was also nerfed, also deathslinger got more or less gutted.
Boons were nerfed because you could literally heal faster than the killer could hit, but I guess thats balanced?
Ah, the aura stacking. Yes, I remember Sluzzy defending that...talking about hexes being too strong years ago.
How anyone could think that literal invincibility was fair I have no idea.
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@eloise said:
When I play killer I'm rank 2 orange I play against rank red 1 and against a toxic team swf everytime I'm not main killer also when I played survivor I'm with rank 1 red killer (huntress everytime) and my team was very best so fix or erase the mmr, it's not come back it's juste comeback for good
Hi!
A few things:
- Grades are not ranks. Grades are just a scoring thing you earn over a season. MMR is what is used for matchmaking, and it's hidden.
- When you start out, your MMR will be set to 'average', which means you'll probably have a dozen or so really rough games before it stabilizes at the right spot for you. Hang in there.
- MMR/SBMM/Matchmaking can be hinky sometimes. If you ever have an instant queue into a full, ready lobby - dodge. Someone else dodged and you were the next killer in line. Some SWFs also deliberately sandbag their MMR to 'smurf' - stomping less skilled killers to earn grades faster, or just for the giggles. 'TTV' lobbies are notorious for this. Dodge those too.
- Sometimes the system just seems to be offline, and you'll get matched with whoever it finds first. Again, if you are persistently getting instant queues, that's usually a sign to log off for the evening - or to bring your absolute best killer and addons.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631223#Comment_2631223
"If you queue up in an SWF, you get a stacking, temporary and proportional increase to your MMR. Say 1.1x for a 2man, 1.4x for a 3man and 1.7x for a full 4man. This would mean that SWFs would face proportionally more skilled killers to counteract the incredible coordination and information sharing bonus."
The issue with this idea even though it sounds good on paper is that it wouldn't matter because of how unbalanced the game is at high mmr. IE you can put them against as high an mmr of a killer as you want and he's still getting destroyed. SWF is just too much of an advantage to add onto an already extremely unbalanced game. If the game was actually balanced at top mmr then yes your idea would work.
I agree I'd also wait triple even the current wait times if it meant I never had to play against SWF. I care more about a "fair" match than I do a fast queue. I want to lose because I was outplayed, not because of balance issues. I can do something about being outplayed (improve), I can't do anything about balance issues. Feeling helpless to an outcome isn't a good feeling in a game.
You won't get rid of or nerf SWF, sadly. BHVR have been emphatic about this - they don't want to 'punish people for playing with friends'.
The best that can be hoped for is a system to detect smurfing (if a player is AFKing or suiciding multiple matches in a row, they may need an audit), the various weirdness that happens with SBMM to get fixed and for SWF to be put up against better killers by default.
That said...a lot of SWFs, especially 2-3man groups are fine. It's the smurfing ones (or however I'm getting matched up against 4000+ hour stompcomps) that cause grief.
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@DangerScouse said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631183#Comment_2631183
Good tip, thanks.
A few other tricks:
- Run Plaything with Retribution. It makes this pretty mediocre perk actually decent.
- Don't try to run Nurse's or Sloppy - these really don't do much against CoH. You'll turn a 4 second heal into a 5 second heal, and even if you see them healing you'll usually not get there in time.
- Don't snuff unless you know exactly where the thing is, or get lucky and spot it while patrolling. You'll almost always waste more time than you'll save.
- Avoid playing attrition killers for the time being, unless you love Wraith or something.
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@PB_TORCHer said:
It works = myth. Reality is in the picture this is a brand new account on a new platform. On ps4 I’ve been playing a year before devotions and I’m Devo13
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T2WXXUDK35W4/84ca00e2-9d76-4de7-b4cb-b505b6d34fd1.jpeg
As I've said in other threads, MMR has some problems.
The 'floor' and 'ceiling' do not seem to be working properly sometimes (crazy matches like this) - likely either as a result of SWFs smurfing their MMR down to farm grades/stomp or because another killer dodged their lobby and it grabbed the nearest available one.
A good idea is, usually, to dodge any lobby that is full and ready the second you join. I've been doing that more and more recently and I've only had one or two baffling matchups since.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631197#Comment_2631197
"Do you mean that it makes winning easier so your MMR inflates"
^ This.
It allows you to win matches that you aren't necessarily winning threw skill but more artificial advantages. IE gen efficiency as one example. The group can be completely terrible loopers (<15 seconds) but as long as they don't waste time and sit on gens holding m1 they can still win because of how imbalanced the objective times are on each side.
MMR is supposed to represent your skill level, but using SWF doesn't allow it to do that accurately.
Ah.
Frankly, what BHVR should do is what other games do with premades.
If you queue up in an SWF, you get a stacking, temporary and proportional increase to your MMR. Say 1.1x for a 2man, 1.4x for a 3man and 1.7x for a full 4man. This would mean that SWFs would face proportionally more skilled killers to counteract the incredible coordination and information sharing bonus.
The elephant in the room though is the fact that clearly the 'floor' and 'ceiling' for matchmaking break down sometimes, and that sometimes the system seems to be offline entirely.
I don't mind waiting for a minute or two extra for a good match. I don't want to be pooping on newbies and I don't want to get skunked by a crazy TTV premade.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630866#Comment_2630866
Killer voices are definitely louder. They do. This is very true. The boons getting nerfed hard from PTB and not much was said.
What?
Where are boons getting nerfed on the PTB?
@ElusivePukka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631167#Comment_2631167
Whataboutism doesn't make dishonesty okay.
Yup.
@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630895#Comment_2630895
My threads are very important because they raise important issues with balance. Survivors are usually at a grave disadvantage. My posts are not all the same. Even if they were, why is it ok for a nerf Dead Hard post every day?
Because Dead Hard is overpowered, was balanced around it's former quirks, and was still meta.
Plus most of the threads aren't 'nerf Dead Hard' as much as 'fix the fake hit bugs and stop it from messing up killer powers'.
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@Blueberry said:
Grades don't make any sense to exist, especially seeing as we already have a Devotion system to show play time. All it leads to is confusion for players.
What should have been done from the beginning is to show MMR, attach ranks to MMR and apply rewards for that instead of grades. The game is currently basically showing you systems that are meaningless and not showing you the systems that do matter.
I'd love to be able to see my own MMR and the MMR of my opponents.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
This game has never been this NOT fun before. Every match is so lopsided and filled with total try hards
On console I initially thought GOOD this will put all those insane PC players and streamers in a league of their own. Did BHVR realize this was basically like giving console the crossplay filtering options we've been asking for and then back out? Sure seems like it
Why is me a random solo player on console being put in a match with a 4,000 hour Huntress main on PC. That makes absolutely no sense.
Killer? Just as trash. Feels like 1 kill increases your MMR by 5,000 while getting 0 kills decreases it by 10 points. Not to mention balancing the game around 2 kills is the dumbest thing of all time. What killer who isn't new is going to feel like that is a win? Playing a match wehre they get outpaced and only manage 2 kills. Doesn't that also encourage ohg IDK...camping and tunneling? 2 kills isn't so hard when thats ALL you do. Why should anyone try to play normally?
Yeah, this happens.
SBMM is actually a great idea - when it works. It's supposed to assign you a 'floor' and 'ceiling' to your matchups, so that regardless of wait times, you'll never be matched with people far worse or far better than you.
However, sometimes you get bonkers match-ups regardless of your own MMR. Then you spend some time reading around and realize that the system often just...doesn't work.
- If you are inactive with one killer for 3 weeks (if I recall), the MMR of that killer resets. However, when you play with that killer next, it assigns a new MMR, pegged just slightly below your best MMR. Why this is the case I have no idea.
- If a killer dodges a lobby, it grabs the next killer available. I'm not sure if the 'floor' or 'ceiling' applies here.
- A lot of SWFs smurf their MMR down, usually to either farm grades more easily (you can't lose grades, so you can push it until you hit a point, then smurf down, then push it again) or to look better on streams. Sometimes they just want to stomp. If you see an obvious SWF with fancy skins, dodge that lobby immediately.
- BHVR seems to sometimes take the system down entirely, probably to make changes or fix a problem. You'll have a day where you just get insane matchups - signaled by instant queues. This is usually a sign to go do something else for the evening.
@Blueberry said:
That's why (among many other reasons) balancing around kills is a terrible metric to use. Most the other options all have issues as well don't get me wrong, but kills is probably the worst one to use as it has many more flaws than the alternatives. Pips for survivor and hooks for killers would yield much better results even with their flaws. Hooks at least somewhat allows us to distinguish between camping kills and actual kills for example. A killer that plays like garbage but just stands there face camping for his 2 kills all game looks "balanced" by our current system even though he did awful, while he would look terrible by a hook system. You'd see a similar result using the PIP system as well.
Something else that artificially puts people at a higher mmr than they should be is running SWF. It boosts you up much, much higher than you could have normally acquired threw solo queue.
What do you mean by it boosts you?
Do you mean that it makes winning easier so your MMR inflates, or that simply playing in an SWF increases your MMR?
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@DangerScouse said:
Boon Bones are infinite. Bubba will save us all.
Bubba and other instadown killers/builds soft-counter this, but wow do people hate playing against instadowns.
The good old cheesy NOED+NWO also works well.
I run Plaything on the majority of killers (I just really, really like this perk despite it being a bit meh) and this also helps with boons.
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As the person above mentioned, this doesn't always work.
Unless you can reliably and immediately locate the boon, it's very easy to waste more time snuffing it than survivors did lighting it. And 15 seconds of killer time is worth exponentially more than 15 seconds spent by one survivor.
This is particularly true of maps like The Game, where it's entirely possible for the boon you are looking for to be on the floor above or below you - you'll never find it.
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@Bran said:
boon totems are strong if you let them use them. you'll know whn one is active so play against it. simply put
It's not that simple.
The scratches one isn't too bad, but CoH can be amazingly strong even if you know it's around.
It's so overwhelmingly strong against attrition based killers that you almost have to build to counter it every game, which is lame and boring (and probably not much fun for survivors either).
The major issues are:
- Healing effects stack too well with other healing effects, leading to almost instantaneous healing.
- It can be difficult to locate on some maps, and killers are always time starved as is.
- It can be instantly re-lit elsewhere.
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@glitchboi said:
This can be anything: a rework, buffs, nerfs, visual changes, leaving him the way he is, or even going as far as suggesting to delete him.
Honestly, I have no idea.
He's one of those killers with a kit that makes him impossible to balance.
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@Silvine said:
So we got serveral validation updates to dead hard/pallets (dont know about windows) but i think doc shock should also have the same deal arround it.Look doc is probably one of the killer with the most bullshit arround is power survivors can vacuum windows from quite a distance and there always the classic drop the pallet even when shocking.
So i wanted to sugest 2 things:
1º-Shock validation so its more consistent
2º-Like trickster when hitting a knife, doc should have a way to know if the survivor is still debuffed (because the scream animation seems kinda inconsistent)
Yep.
I've been asking for this since...basically forever (ditto Nurse teleports getting stuck on random doodads).
It's either too hard to fix, or there isn't sufficient motivation to fix.
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@solidhex said:
I haven't played killer for a while because since SBMM every game is stressful, in fact i haven't played Dbd much, maybe every 2-3 days for 2 hours, but only survivor with friends. Now i played killer (my main Wraith only) for a whole evening because of the halloween challenges. It was not a fun experience...
I played him only once after his nerf and thought it's not that much of a change, but now i feel his big lunge was necessary to keep up with all the power creep ranged killers the game got lately. The new boon totems basically counter the hit&run playstyle and chasing with Wraith against good players (i can't see my own rating but everyone had like >1.5k hours) will make you lose the game immediately if you're not running a chase build. The only 3k-4k's i got were on indoor maps or when someone threw (DCing etc.) in the beginning or when i was running best add ons + Ruin + Pop.
I don't want to run the strongest possible builds every game, one of his main assets was his versatility when it comes to builds, but i feel he is very weak against decent survivors because you can easily counter him. Now people will say "everyone is weak against 4 decent survivors" but i feel that the ranged killer meta can hold up if you know what you're doing (seen from my own survivor experiences), while the m1 killers have a hard time when everyone is sweating. You can just throw every pallet and you won't get punished for it because everyone with a decent SBMM rating will do gens whenever possible.
A few thoughts:
- Wraith was indeed overnerfed, for the same reason that other B and C tier killers (Pinhead, Slinger) were/are being nerfed. Even though they have trouble in mid-high level play, they can be difficult for newer/less skilled groups to deal with. They should have been compensated elsewhere, but...it is what it is.
- Wraith in particular is in a very rough state, as CoH boons are essentially a blind counter to him, and other attrition based killers.
That said:
- Being an M1 killer is a rough job at present. Boons are just...not well thought out, and a lot of maps are extremely bad for M1 killers, with a ton of pseudo-infinites, ultra safe pallets and freebie gens.
- If you want to play an attrition killer right now, you'll need to run a dedicated 'anti-boon' setup. Either instadown capability (DH+Undying, NOED+NWO, Starstruck+x carry perks) or pressure (Plaything+Retribution is a favorite).
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@Clowning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630568#Comment_2630568
You're right, however if they're making the same thread, with a slightly different wording, several times a week, to the point they've become a running joke on the forums, it surely cannot be surprising if people see these threads for what they are.
At this point you might as well have a Sluzzy thread pinned to save everyone the time.
This.
I wasn't intending to be mean to someone honestly providing a controversial opinion. As my own posting history will attest, I will always try to be civil even when I disagree with someone.
This isn't that.
Sluzzy is infamous on these forums for suggesting/saying patently absurd things.
@Rizzo said:
Just a quick reminder to be respectful to other users, just because you don't agree with their opinion it doesn't mean they are either a troll or their thread is bait.
So, please, if you want to discuss the topic, be civil, thank you.
I understand and will try to tone it down in future. But please keep in mind the above, and the history of the person in question. They are, in fact, known for making...that sort of thread, usually reformatting another recent thread on the forums.
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@LiquidSoap said:
Can someone explain this to me?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GQH4ZDL2GT1W/download.jpg
If not I would like a refund on my game!
It happens sometimes. There are supposed to be 'floors' and 'ceilings' to the matchmaker to ensure you don't get horrible matchups because an SWF was waiting for a long time, but...yeah. It evidently doesn't always work as intended.
A few possibilities:
- A high ranked SWF team got to the grade they wanted, then smurfed their MMR down (you can't lose grades) to easily farm the next one, to look better on stream or just to be jerks. There isn't much you can do about this aside from dodging obvious SWF lobbies with fancy/legacy skins (these are also often hackers if they are PC players - just dodge).
- Either you or your opponents have been waiting for a long time, and the floors/ceilings didn't work.
- You are playing a killer you haven't for a while. From what I understand, the MMR of your killers resets after 3 weeks of inactivity, and the next time you play assigns you a new MMR pegged slightly below your best killer. If you're really good with one killer, you can wind up getting slaughtered on your others.
- Lastly, sometimes SBMM just seems entirely disabled for the period of an evening or so. You'll notice that suddenly your queues are instant. If so, you either get to enjoy a trip to the Wild West, or you take a break.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630433#Comment_2630433
It's not just kindred.
They know where the killer is at all times, they have all the kindred information for free without needing a perk, they know when someone is 99% on the floor ready to be picked up, they know when someone is under a pallet, they know if the gates are open, etc.
Yes, kindred basekit would buff swf slightly, that's why the killers would be buffed after to compensate.
That's the problem right there.
How exactly would you buff killers? Or more importantly, how would you *persuade BHVR* to buff killers? That's like trying to persuade a cat to eat a carrot.
BHVR just nerfed Pinhead, Wraith and Deathslinger (solidly 'B' and 'C' tier killers) specifically for the sake of uncoordinated groups, and I cannot think of a single time they've reverted a killer nerf.
There is a reason why killers fight so passionately for their role on the forums - it feels like, if they don't, then everything that is remotely powerful or fun to use (see: Undying nerf basically destroying all hex play for the sake of Ruin) will be taken away from us.
So, how about this. Get the devs to buff the weaker killers and revert a few nerfs. Then we can talk about buffing the baseline kit for survivors. Sorry if I sound cranky, but it is what it is.
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@Thunderfrog said:
I mean, most teams already breakdown pretty evenly with 1 or 2 runners, someone with gen perks, and someone with unhook perks. I could see comp teams adjusting now to make boons a anchored part of their gameplay. If you have two full boon sets in play on opposite sides of the map, or the middle + the side you guys are working, it could be really slick.
Survivor 1 -Booner-: (Circle of Heal, Shadow Step, Exponential), and 1 utility perk. (Dead Hard, BT, Totem Tracking, W/e the comp needs)
Survivor 2- Runner: Standard runner stuff. DH, Lithe/SB, etc.
Survivor 3- Runner/Unhooker: Runner perks + maybe Deliverance. (Other runner or a booner runs interference if he's targeted before he gets his first unhook.)
Survivor 4- Booner.
As someone already said, from what I understand, boons are just outright banned in tournament play. In a coordinated group, they are just obscenely strong and blind-counter a lot of killers.
Of course, some killers/builds can work against boon play, but it's gets really tedious to build around one feature of the game because it's so obscenely powerful.
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@Marigoria said:
In 5k hours, since SBMMR has been implemented I've had at least 1 obvious cheater everyday in my matches.
A lot even admit to cheating in end game chat because they know they can just keep on hacking with no issue whatsoever.
I started playing when Legion first came out, I'm at 5k hours and I havent seen this many hackers before.
Not only the amount of bugs that keep on being unfixed, the shitshow that is solo q, the inbalance between SWF, Killers and solo, and now we need to deal with hackers everyday too.
When are devs going to even mention anything about this? I've seen countless of threads on the forums, yet no dev has commented on them that I am aware of.
At least give us a replay thing in game so it's easier to report them, instead of us having to go out of our way to get a recording software to do so.
I see them sometimes. If I see a survivor gaily soaring over the roof of the map popping gens or running around with perma Sprint Boost or being impossible to down/hook, I just AFK.
What really scares me though is the subtle cheaters, those survivors who are just a bit faster than they should be, seem to know exactly where you are at all times or pop gens long before they should be able to. Those are the ones that make you go 'is someone hacking, or am I just bad at this game?'.
That said - even massive companies like Epic and ActiBlizz struggle to deal with cheats. Hacks are now so sophisticated that even proprietary anticheats fold like wet cardboard (and these are actual Esport games), and the only games that are mostly spared do nearly everything server side (LoL) or employ extreme levels of moderation combined with MAC bans (i.e. your PC hardware is tagged, and you'll never play the game again on your system).
I'm not sure what BHVR can really do. Yes, EAC is a joke but...why invest in stronger measures when it's just going to be beaten anyway?
As to the rest:
- Yes to bugs. Holy crap is the 'fake hit' bug annoying. Twins, Nurse and a few other killers still have crippling bugs (like frozen Victor).
- SWF was a mistake. I get that people like playing with friends, but it's just impossible to balance around both solo and SWF. Either solo, SWF or killers get shafted (see: Pinhead nerfs).
- The answer is exactly what you said. Replay feature and moderation - the only way to get rid of cheats is MAC bans, Overwatch style.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630189#Comment_2630189
That last line made absolutely no sense. How does buffing solo affect swf in any way?
Killers struggle against swf.
Let me explain.
You are assuming that all SWFs communicate perfectly and telepathically, to simulate the effects of Kindred.
If you make Kindred baseline, you give more 'free time' to SWFs. That's one thing less they have to communicate, and removes the possibility of someone giving bad info, making a mistake or at least clogging up coms for a bit.
While it wouldn't be as big of a buff, you'd still be buffing SWFs considerably. You give them a ton of free 'communication cycles' to coordinate other stuff.
Now - I have no objection to letting survivors see the auras of allies (that part of Kindred) in solo - if and only if this effect is removed when any SWF is present. But that's far too nuanced and surgical a solution for BHVR to ever implement. They've stated that they won't have stuff that works differently in solo/SWF - so...yeah. DOA.
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@EntitySpawn said:
So this is a discussion, and yes it is possible. I shall explain low and high skill for each role and then explain the changes. Its gonna be long, changes at bottom.
Low skill survivor: doesnt massively understand loops, would not run them efficiently and can quite often just wait at a pallet or drop the pallet quickly without really using the tile. Cannot link tiles, does not understand every counter to killers, dont tend to keep track of killer perks and what they can use. Not efficient on gens.
High skill survivor: understands tiles, will use the whole tile for a decent period before using a pallet, can chain tiles together, will understand killer counters and limitations, efficient on gens and knows the killer perks through elimination. Knows when to loop or hold forwards. Knows points of loops to stand at removing mindgames
Low level killer: not the most observant, doesnt usually juggle survivors, doesn't know what loops a survivor is running too, doesnt know the best way to loop, often wont mindgame, haven't mastered the killer, doesnt know which pallets have to be broken or can be played around. Usually dont drop chases.
High level killer: aware of tiles spawned, know when to drop chase, can juggle, tracks survivors around the map, understands speeds of actions, mastered the killer, knows which pallets are unsafe, knows the best way to push a survivor on a tile, will track deadzones
So, basically the biggest difference is the chase and understanding of loops with gen efficiency for survivor. And for killer multi tasking, game knowledge on who to chase where with the killer they're playing.
The changes:
-map size, because some maps are so big it stops the ability to juggle survivors and cause pressure while the survivors can optimally work on gens. So shrinking the map would help the high level without impacting the lower end, this is because the killers less likely to juggle or cause pressure meaning the survivors will still be safe enough to work on gens.
-tiles, some tiles are too safe. The main ones I would argue are jungle gyms and the killer shack. Good survivors know how to run these wasting huge time not to mention knowing places to stand to be safe. The FIX? Reduce the width of the tiles, for the JUNGLE GYMS reduce the distance between the pallet and window (like the one on the game map) this creates less safe spots and more chance to mindgame. as for KILLER SHACK, reduce the distance from the door (one without the pallet) and the window, this gives more room to mindgame and less safe places to stand. These changes wont affect the low level, as these survivors often dont maximize the loop or know the safe places to stand changing them wont be as impactful, theres still a pallet and window for them to use against a killer who isnt going to be the most knowledgeable.
Sorry for the long read. In short, shrink the size of some tiles and shrink the larger maps (redforrest).
What are your opinion?
A few thoughts from someone happily in the 'intermediate' skill range. Which is the area you sort of forgot, and I'd reckon encapsulates far more players than 'high' skill.
- Map size isn't the problem, in and of itself - outside of some specific killers. It's more a matter of complexity (RPD, Haddonfield), the amount of 100% safe pallets (The Game), the presence of pseudo infinites (Badham, RPD, Haddonfield), the amount of 'freebie' gens (RPD, Haddonfield) and verticality.
- Overly small maps (DDS) tend to be killer favored at most levels, taking Game pallets/interaction with boons out of the equation.
- Shack is fine. It gives you one totally safe pallet, then it's basically done. The problem is pseudo infinites (the office on RPD is the big offender, as is the 'basement' house on Haddonfield and some Badham tiles) and overly prevalent safe pallets.
- The other big problem is killer balance. Right now, killers either need crazily high mobility (Blight, Spirit), excellent traversal (Nurse, Hag, Demo sort of), independent pressure (Pinhead, soon to be nerfed into obscurity) or anti-loop (Artist, Nemesis, PH) to be viable. M1 killers are sort of dead without abusing one or two really strong addons.
- If the infinites and freebie gens were fixed on Haddonfield, RPD and Badham and the safe pallets/nearly map wide boons on The Game were changed, killer balance would feel a lot better. These maps are the big offenders.
TL/DR - your observations aren't wrong, but your fixes need to be a bit more nuanced. I'd say that:
- Fix pseudo infinites by either removing 1 vault from these locations, or adding a gap in the barriers.
- Remove a few doodads near pallets from The Game.
- Move some of the 'freebie' gens on Badham, Haddonfield and RPD to somewhere you can actually pressure.
- Split RPD into two maps. It's just too big for it's level of complexity.
- Lower the 'roofs' on Haddonfield slightly, so that you can't reenter windows from them. This allows 'scouting' behavior, but stops the houses from being so oppressive against some killers.
- Stop boons from projecting their effects through floors (The Game).
- Give CoH a balance pass. It's just too strong in SWFs that build around it. It shouldn't stack with other healing effects so aggresively.
- Revert Pinhead, Wraith and Deathslinger nerfs, or compensate these killers elsewhere.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630189#Comment_2630189
Base kit totem counter that everyone can see instead of forcing a stupid perk that only one can see. SWF already have kindred through coms so why would it be too op?
Because it's an enormous amount of free information. More than even SWF provides.
If it only gave survivor auras, that would be one thing - but the ability to see exactly where the killer is going is pretty damn strong.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629655#Comment_2629655
You can buff just solo's and then buff killers to deal with the fallout. Kindred base kit, ping system, chat wheel, totem counter. not hard to implement, but they stupidly refuse to do it and just keep tacking crap onto perks that just hurt solo players to run instead of the meta perks that swf run every single game.
Kindred is way too strong for a basekit. You'd have to give killers Deerstalker and BBQ baseline to compensate.
Ping system and emote wheel? Yeah, that should be a thing.
You have a counter to totems. It's called Small Game.
If you buff solo Q, then buff killers - now SWF struggles. You can't just make huge sweeping changes to balance - there is always a knock-on effect.
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@Vyne456 said:
You can destroy totems by just snuffing them. Is it hard for your eyes, then contact your eye doctor.
The issue is that boons can be reignited almost instantly, can be too hard to find in a timely fashion on layered maps and CoH is just too powerful when stacked with other healing effects.
@ColonGlock said:
3 gen strat is baby killer thinking. Nobody wants to spend 30 minutes in a match with you. I have given up on gen slowdown perks and focus on having fun. That is the point of this game right?
Play to win, and to have fun.
@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630100#Comment_2630100
Sometimes you have to ignore. Midwich & Racoon are those special map. For Swamp map that there is always a Totem spawn at a corner, if killer take a lap around the map boundaries for that one Boons, he's already lose.
Midwich isn't too bad. Knock out the routes up as a priority. Badham, Haddonfield and RPD are nightmares.
@ColonGlock said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630087#Comment_2630087
A survivor messing with boons is a survivor that is not on a gen. It only hurts you when you ignore the boons.
15 seconds of 1 survivor's time is worth significantly more than 15 seconds of the killer's time. And that's assuming you can find it and snuff it within 15 seconds, and it's not on the floor below you, behind two walls and under a duck.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629620#Comment_2629620
I didn't answer with any ill intent or sarcasm
I just gave serious answers since you made a thread asking questions!
Oh, not you mate. The guy under you. Unfortunately that's how forum quotes work.
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@HealsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629639#Comment_2629639
Hag is arguably S Tier, her skill ceiling is much higher than people giver her credit for. She's slept on bc she's so different from the rest of the cast (even Twins and Trapper, the Killers that resemble her most, are more focused on the chase), but an insane Hag can destroy the best teams arguably as fast as pre-nerf Spirit or Blight.
Eh...I keep seeing this said, but she really isn't. She can be lethal on some maps, but good teams will play around her and the new CoH meta really hurts her.
I'd say the only true 'S' tier anymore is Blight.
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@GoshJosh said:
BHVR, help me understand this one. For years there's been request after request to buff solo queue, so it will be closer to par with SWF. If you do this, you can better balance the game and make a more pleasant experience for solo survivors. We're talking about real simple changes: seeing each other's perks in the lobby, items, add-ons, indication of when various perks are in play in the game, any of these.
Instead, you've made boon totems: extremely strong perks that only one survivor needs to bring to benefit an entire team. One blessed totem brings all the benefits of every boon perk - two, about to be three. Solo survivors don't have the coordination to tell others to not cleanse totems, so they can be blessed instead. And soon if they cleanse totems, they will run the risk of being hit with Hex: Pentimento.
Can someone please clarify for me?
Yeah, it's tricky.
On one hand, you can't just 'buff' solos without somehow nerfing killers.
As the poster above me pointed out, BHVR has already made numerous changes to survivor perks to help solos, almost all of which have made it harder for the killer in all matches. They've also nerfed the everloving hell out of Pinhead's addons purely for the sake of solos. And Pinhead was mid-tier, at best.
The problem is that the game can't be balanced around both solos and SWF, and in that scenario, you have to balance around SWF.
There isn't really an answer to this.
And yes, boons are just a problem on many levels. They should never have been added as is, and will likely get reworked heavily as the game moves forward.
@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2628395#Comment_2628395
I have seen clips of VHS and I'm not hopeful.....because we thi k survivors have gear now to mess with killers......in VHS you get actual weapons to fight back....
VHS is...interesting. It's very different from DbD, and looks pretty janky too. Honestly though, competition is always good.
@Nos37 said:
This is on top of the constant "just do bones" rebuttal in every Nerf NOED thread
Shrug. NOED is strong, and a pretty annoying perk to face. It's nowhere near as strong as people make it out to be and only really good on some killers and combined with other perks (NWO is the biggie).
At worst, you'll have to sacrifice someone. If you already had 2 dead before NOED, you would have lost anyway if they'd brought different perks.
One thing that survivors need to do more outside of high level games is to learn to figure out which perks the killer is running. If he has 1-2 'blank' spots, anticipate NOED.
@Johnny_XMan said:
For years there has been a request to buff solo and for years, time after time solo players have proven how terrible they are making decisions.
Reliability is not found in solo Q, even with kindred they stand around crouched looking at each other. No gens done, no saves… farming off hook without BT doesn’t count.
So if Kindred can’t force them to take action I don’t know what can. No type of buff will change selfish playstyles which many solo players choose to follow.
You won't force players to be better, or to work better as a team artificially. This is something that has to come from time and practice.
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@ukenicky said:
I only really have an issue with face camping the first survivor you down and trying to force them to die on hook.
Sorry but if you do that you're rude and lazy. I play both sides, as Killer I use perks that reward me for hooking different survivors and encourage me to leave the hook and I do just fine managing everything, patrolling gens and spreading out the pressure amongst everyone.
Tunneling and slugging are fine since they are high risk high reward but someone who face camps and runs NOED to secure an easy down in the end game gets no respect from me.
Honestly, I've never seen a killer do this outside of someone teabagging/flicking him.
What often happens to me as killer though is that I'll see a survivor near the hook and chase them, down someone after they tried to bodyblock, patrol back past the hook as I patrol gens or catch someone running to the hook as I leave - and get called a camper.
The only times I'll straight up camp is when someone is using a flick macro or teabags me, and generally it'll still be a proxy camp.
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@Kebek said:
When I was thinking about our much beloved meta killers, nurse, blight, hag, spirit. I remembered their PTBs (the ones which had them) and realised, all of them were pretty bad in their early stages and got buffed to be meta afterwards, expect nurse, she's the fist DLC made to counter long gone infinites so she's got special pass.
Og hag as far as I remember, had extremely slow teleport, longer trap settinging, possibly smaller TP range. Eventurally she got buffed and became as good as she is now.
PTB blight had terrible hitboxes, you literally could not use his power anywhere and everyone agreed should he relase in a state he was on PTB, he would be at best mid tier killer. Luckily for him, his hitboxes got ironed out when released on live so people slowly began to get good with him, making everyone realise how strong his power is when it is allowed to work.
PTB spirit wasn't necessarily terrible but she was one of the weakest versions of her we've seen. If I remember, you could very clearly HEAR her exact position on her PTB and she was also somewhat slower (I might be misremembering that). Nobody was tracking via sound on her PTB, just doing their best with scratch marks which is pretty hard and even after her post PTB buffs, she rose to popularity (and became as hated too) almost like a year later from her release out of nowhere.
Any other killer released was either considered just very good but for the most part not S tier due to things lacking in their kit.
I get the feeling that if killers wants to become S tier, they first need to have design with a lot of potencial but at the same time have to be quite ######### in the execution of that potencial so they can be later fixed/buffed without anyone beiing able to argue they were good before or even wanting to nerf them.
I find it rather odd that the best killers we ever got don't seem to be designed to be the best from the beggining but rather brought to that point because they were mediocre in their first iterations.
I wouldn't bet on it.
The only 'S' tier killer that isn't pretty OG is Blight, and he comes with a bonkers skill-floor and serious jankiness. And I'm sure his nerfs are coming.
She seems a little strong at present, and her crows probably need to be a little easier to dodge.
That said, she'll probably be Pinhead 2.0. Mediocre on release, good addons - which will then be nerfed into obscurity within a few months.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629565#Comment_2629565
Aye I love to see more people are going to main the Artist <3
@Tr1nity said:
Ok new Tier list
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/131PLJ6VQXY3/image.png
Im am loving artist, you could say shes a masterpiece.
Still gonna play mostly executioner, theres no way shes making out the PTB like that
I wouldn't hold your breath.
There is no way a killer as fun and powerful as her will go live as is. Not after how dirty they've done...well, every new killer that isn't Blight. Well, Nemesis too when his zombies decide to work properly.
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@ukenicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629620#Comment_2629620
I totally understand, I hate it too because you CAN'T avoid the blind and don't we all hate things we have no control over lol
That being said, you do technically make a lot more distance by running from a pallet stun and I recommend that if they can make it to another safe area. If they're in a dead zone though, blinding can buy them much needed time to get somewhere safe.
Ah, that does make sense.
I just catch someone after doing this maybe 2 times in 3, and then they have to deal with full on no-mercy mode for the remainder of the match, as I now have a nark on.