FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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- FFirebrandd
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Adrenaline. Hate that perk with a passion. It's not easy to kill an Adrenaline user after they've used it, but I am 1000% going to try to.
Oddly, the body blocking with bt doesn't bother me that much. I just see it like "Oh you want more of my attention? Alright, you can have it."
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I lowkey miss the DS + UB + BT + exhaustion perk meta. Why? Because it left nearly no room for gen rushing perks. Also, if you didn't tunnel, camp, or slug you frequently invalidated 75% of the survivor perks in the lobby. I planned to play that way anyway, so getting an indirect reward for it was nice.
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No thanks. Keys with old hatch rules were super stupid.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627853#Comment_3627853
I think her drones are strong enough right now, maybe after a certain number of scans it can down people or it makes the deep wounds loose time, so that someone dies faster through it.
Honestly I have no good ideas to make her far better, but her drones aren‘t weak like many say and like said, those two effects are overkill.
If she stays the same her drones should at least work like trappers traps. Picking them up, placing them and setting the drones up, after survivors disabled them.
You are completely and totally wrong about the strength of her drones. Seriously, the only traps that come close to the Drone's lack of power is Freddy's blood pools, but Freddy honestly needs help. The Drones can't down, and if haste is removed only start hindering after the survivor gets hit 4 times! That is not strong! If you did remove haste and undetectable, I fail to see why anyone would play SM over Plague or Legion.
As for them requiring Trapper levels of upkeep... are you serious? Trapper's traps are as clunky and unfriendly as they are because they're usually insta downs. They are the most lethal traps by a mile and are arguably the most lethal power in the game. To balance that, they're clunky as hell. By contrast, SM's drones are the smoothest traps in the game because they require multiple hits to do anything at all other than give SM a small amount of haste.
Edit: Your idea for making the drones able to down via reducing Deep Wound timer sound a lot like release Legion 2 electric boogalo. That got removed for a very good reason and shouldn't come back ever.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627844#Comment_3627844
Drone based power: Yes
So firstly, no. SM has always been a jack of all trades killer. Making her not that removes most of the reason to play her.
Secondly, just because I'm curious, what kind of crazy buffs would you give her to offset removing her undetectable and haste.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627834#Comment_3627834
After she broke the pallet, she just catches up in no time and then you expect me to crouch in chase to not get the claw effects, that slow me! Either way you are screwed.
The haste and undetectable part isn‘t needed, it’s overkill !
I just say we agree to disagree.
So you want her to just have the drones which are arguably the weakest traps in the game?
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Her downside for her stealth specifically is a near complete lack of followup lethality.
Myers and Ghostface have ways of inflicting exposed.
Wraith has his super lunge. (Spirit too if you consider her a stealth killer)
Pig and Chucky have their dash attacks.
What's SM got? 7% haste at maximum... and if she's got that, you all have messed up incredibly badly. But that's OK because SM is very much not a one trick pony. None of her tricks are the strongest of their kind, but she's got so many and they are all so smooth that it all comes together.
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Don't touch my friend!
When healthy and within 1/1.5/2 meter of an injured Survivor activates. If the injured Survivor would take damage from the killer, you push them out of the way and take the hit in their place.
"That was either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid. Possibly both." -Anon
Tuck and Roll
When put into the dying state, you maintain normal movement during the falling animation and for 1/1.5/2s afterwards.
"That was *not* a normal fall." -Anon
Can I strap a bell to him?
After 30/20/10 seconds of not being in chase or the killer's FOV, the perk activates. When within 2m of the killer push the active ability button to turn the killer toward you and stun the killer for 2s. Successfully using the perk causes exhaustion for 60/50/40s. Cannot be used while exhausted.
"AAAAH! Where'd you come from!?!? I need to put a bell on you." -Slightly Annoyed Significant Other
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To be honest, I'd be Ok with it essentially giving either Botany Knowledge or Self Care depending on if you are healing yourself or a teammate. However, it shouldn't ever do both at the same time.
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No. They reverted the wrong nerf.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624827#Comment_3624827
Genuine question so I can understand this POV better: In this scenario where you've downed Survivors near the same generator 8 times, how many times do you think you should be able to make a critical mistake and lose a down to a save (flashlight, pallet, etc.) and still deserve to win the match?
It wasn't my intention of commenting on whether a killer should be able to win if they've lost multiple hooks due to saves. I was merely correcting an assertion that 8 surges = 8 hooks = winning. Because that isn't necessarily true.
But answering your question directly... it very much depends on how well the survivors use that time that a successful save buys them. If they fail to use it productively at all and merely continue to swarm the killer, the killer should still have a solid chance of winning. And I personally have still won in that exact situation.
Also, I personally wouldn't call getting hit by For the People a critical mistake. If it's done properly, it's much more of a no win situation.
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624768#Comment_3624768
you don´t need 8 surges because 8 downs = 8 hooks, so you won the game
You seem to have forgotten two things. First, For the People saves, Flashlight saves, Flashbang saves, Pallet saves, Head On saves, Unbreakable, DS, Body blocking/Breakout, Boil Over, and Sabo saves all exist. So it is entirely possible to have surge go off 8 times and not have 8 hooks. Second, if those 8 hooks are arranged just wrong, all 4 survivors could be still alive which is not winning yet in just about anyone's book.
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Alright, I have three very big issues with the anti 3 gen system as proposed.
- If/When it goes off, it will feel absolutely terrible. The killer can't be in 4 places at once, which means that gen progress is going to happen. Currently that doesn't feel too terrible because killers have ways of undoing some of that progress that they could not possibly stop. However, having the game even rarely say "Nope! No more! You've already 'healed' this gen too many times. Get lost!" when that is exactly what you need to do at this moment in time is 100% going to suck. It doesn't even matter how many regression events we can use. Once they run out, it is going to suck regardless of why we hit the cap.
- This is enforcing the status quo in a massive way. Pop and Pain Res are already preferred over... just about every other regression perk in the game bar none. I can guarantee almost every killer will ask themselves "Oh hey... would I rather consume one of my limited regression events with a mere 8% total regression or would I rather get 5% total and 30% current regression?" and they're going to choose the 5% total and 30% current every single time because of course they will. So, the other regression perks like Surge, Eruption, Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Oppression are all going to feel even less worth it than they already are right now.
- Non regression gen kick perks. Most of these aren't particularly strong in the first place. I really don't think Surveillance, Trail of Torment, or even the best of the bunch... Nowhere to Hide are particularly overbearing. However, despite that... they can just... cease to work due to this new mechanic. Even though as mentioned, they aren't the problem.
This mechanic would have been far far far less problematic if instead of capping the number of regression instances, you guys had capped the total BONUS regression applied to each gen. That way the killer never feels helpless because they still will always have access to the old base of -0.25 c/s regression (which also wasn't ever problematic), we aren't somewhat forced into big bursty regression or nothing, and non regression kick perks don't get caught in the cross fire.
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@ChaosWam said:
Very well thought out changes, I approve of this mindset.
I am not a expert on most of these perks myself, but if I can make any note of your changes I really like your take on making Insidious a hex. Aside hexes being weak due to cleansing, I think your idea is a great way for beginners to understand hexes since they have the power to place it themselves and learn what happens when it's cleansed. Not to mention, it would still be an interesting undetectable perk for a few builds off the top of my head.
Thank you! I was pretty happy with what I came up for for Insidious.
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This entire thread is basically why I posted in the main feedback thread that they desperately need to make an add on that basically pushed the "undo" button on the rework. The changes were too large and varied to make everyone happy. And essentially deleting someone's favorite playable character is the fastest way to get them to hate you.
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Absolutely not. If Behavior did that I'd start hating them almost as much as I hate Blizzard.
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Of course nobody uses Hexes. The vast majority of them are inherently unreliable and not strong enough to justify it. Plaything is pretty much the only exception because it can create 4 lit totems instead of only one, so even if you get zero easy hits from the oblivious effect, it still gave some decent slowdown. Then Pentimento rides Plaything's coattails.
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@GeneralV said:
Yes, it would help.
Obviously we cannot expect Decisive Strike to stop every single tunneler out there, but it would put an end to the sheer wave of tunneling we are currently seeing.
Many killers were hesitant to tunnel because of this perk, but even if they aren't it helps you buy more time for your team. If they are effective on gens, you might even survive the trial.
However, DS shouldn't be disabled at the end game. No perk should be disabled at the end game.
DS should get a small buff, but it should 100% still get disabled at the end game. End game DS makes a 4 out way too free against a lot of killers if the Survivors are a smidge coordinated and the person currently on hook has it. The killer literally doesn't have enough time to play around it.
Also... I would like to point out that every single generator related perk is essentially disabled at end game regardless of which side it's on because the gens can't be interacted with at that point. Heck... Freddie even loses his teleport during end game. So, if we're going with no perk gets disabled at end game, a LOT of perks are going to have to... I don't know... get a secondary effect at end game?
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I think the only map that does breakable walls well is The Game with an honorable mention to Midwich, because they open up new paths on those maps. On almost every other map they end up being either a complete waste of time to kick or necessary to kick to weaken a really strong loop. Neither of those uses for them is interesting.
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@jayoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617642#Comment_3617642
I'm sorry, I highly disagree that it's on the same level as Kindred and resilience puts a survivor at a disadvantage being injured. I would agree with you that once it's known people can take care of it, if it didn't rely on finding a totem. There has been plenty of times everyone is running around looking for it.
Sure you can see the Aura after awhile, but only after a certain amount of time does it increase until it's at max distance range. It never becomes map wide range for the aura.
It happened three times in a row where a killer got NOED and was able to slug everyone over time and proxy camped the totem and the hooked survivor next to the hex totem because they used agitation and/or iron grasp. It doesn't get rid of it right away if you do find the totem, you have to cleanse it and then when the killer chases you off it, the cleanse time is back down to zero.
It is though. Kindred is arguably the strongest survivor info perk in the game. Getting info on where the killer is going post hook is very strong because that's when they are least predictable because they don't have an active target. The only thing wrong with it is the same issue all info perks have that info doesn't do anything if you can't capitalize on it.
Resilience is at minimum meta adjacent because healing is so bad. Gen rush with Resi, Prove, and Adrenaline is a pretty darn strong game plan. It is also one of the few perks that is going to give at least some value no matter what.
Noed on the other hand has an incredibly strong effect, but it also has an insane opportunity cost of being offline for the majority of the game. Also it has a tendency to merely confirm 1 extra kill at end game because the rest of the survivors just nope out once Noed reveals itself. It can only do way more than that if the survivors mess up badly.
Lastly, I think I see the problem. "was able to slug everyone over time". That tells me that you and your teammates tried to be heroes and still force the 4 out in spite of Noed being in play and messed up. Pro tip, the killer cannot proxy camp a hook, a totem, and both doors... so just leaving vs Noed is usually the best option. Also, survivor hooked next to Noed basically means cut your losses and leave. Because you ain't getting that rescue or cleanse.
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@jayoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617632#Comment_3617632
That's your opinion, not a fact about me being wrong. Just like I think you are wrong, it's my opinion. But that's rude to say to someone so I'm not going to say you're wrong.
People said the same thing about MFT and I agreed, it needed to be reworked. But people said it was one of the perks worth running as survivor. Just like WoO on survivors. I also think that perk is unhealthy for this game. It's okay to think perks on both sides are unhealthy.
A single perk shouldn't be that strong that it's a must to run. Perks should give you a slight edge, not a huge advantage. I would equate NOED with MFT and Hope combo. Or for the people and buckle up. Unhealthy perks that need to be reworked.
Noed isn't a must run though? I'd estimate that it's in approximately the same boat as Kindred and Resilience. Really really good for a newbie because their options are limited and still a decent option for veterans if they want.
Is it a bit of a gotcha? Sure it is. But it gives the Killer 1 easy down at the end and then you know it's in play and should be able to play accordingly. The survivor side has so many gotcha perks that can ruin a killer's tempo that I don't think Kilker having this one is such a big deal.
Edit: Also saying someone's opinion is wrong is only rude when talking about matters of taste. I am perfectly justified in calling you wrong if you're trying to claim that perks like Unrelenting, Distressing, and Deer Stalker are good.
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Then you are wrong. It's basically Noed, Sloppy, and a few decent tracking perks. Everything else is bad.
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Absolutely not.
As it is, Noed is one of very few general killer perks that are actually worth running.
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So... your teammate had 2 ways to prevent this. Did neither of them. And now you're mad at the killer?
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@botwhisperer1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615483#Comment_3615483
How is the winter/christmas event poorly timed when it releases at christmas?
So you took a lengthy break from the game, came back a few days before a holiday event and are upset that people who havent been gone from the game for any length of time are looking to kick back with goofy fun during an yearly event, (that is not new to DBD), and its everyone elses fault? The event is not poorly timed, your return after a long hiatus is. How can it be surprising that during any holiday event, that most players will be looking forward to goofing around and taking the game less seriously for a week or two? There 365 days a year, even after you subtract the durations of the various holiday events that happen in dbd, there are more then enough days to play normal matches.
I feel like you merely skimmed my post instead of actually reading it.
I get why they started the holiday event when they started it. However, FOR ME PERSONALLY the timing sucked. And no this wasn't my timing being bad. The end of my break happened specifically because MFT got nerfed, which obviously isn't something that I personally have any control over.
Also, at no point did I say that the event shouldn't have happened. Merely that I was excited for normal DBD... but normal DBD got temporarily replaced by silly event DBD, so I'm not going to partake. I really don't know why you're coming at me so hard for my personal feelings on this matter.
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Scratched Mirror Myers
Trying to do that without a map offering is just asking to have a bad time.
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I very strongly agree. I wrote up and was going to post what I'd do to every free perk on the killer side but haven't because of their AMA response. I legitimately don't understand how they can be ok with the current state of free perks. Killer is way worse than Survivor, but even they have a distinct lack of anti tunnel or anti camping perks.
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For me personally, this event was just poorly timed. I'd been on a lengthy break from DBD and wasn't going to play killer until something happened with Made For This. Something did a few days before the event started, so I came back and was enjoying SM's rework and normal DBD.
Then the event comes around and my first game with the event ends with the Survivors complaining that I took it too seriously and didn't give them a chance to do event things. Well... guess I'm not playing for the duration of the event too because I'm in the mood for normal DBD and not snowball fights in DBD... oh well.
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Play as Legion, Skull Merchant, or Demo. All killers who get info that isn't dependent on auras or screams.
Use perks like Whispers, Surveillance, Discordance, Thrilling Tremors, etc.
If you want additional info, you still have options that rely on neither auras nor screams.
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For me it's less a lack of innovation and more them being OK with leaving garbage in their game for years.
As such the thing that really got me was the dismissive attitude towards the general perks being terrible. That "New killers don't need regression" bit is baloney. New survivors start with 3/4 different and good options for exhaustion perks. Are they just expecting every new killer to rush getting Clown or Artist, shell out for Demo, or get lucky with the terrible Shrine of Secrets or something? Because I can tell you right now that they won't. Their first few shard purchases will go towards whichever killer seems most cool, fun, or interesting. Not which one actually gives them borderline necessary perks for later.
When I started, I got kind of lucky that Thana was decent at the time and I was most interested in Legion who can use it incredibly well. If I hadn't been in that boat, I probably would have quit before I got very deep into things since I wasn't interested in Clown or Hag and Artist didn't exist yet.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609392#Comment_3609392
I'll agree we have different views, to me the game is designed around the idea of each survivor on their own. While I think the idea of DBD being 1v1v1v1v1 has never been true, the idea that each survivor is on their own is a central concept of the game design. Overall play has to do with the idea that a death hook survivor will be more cautious in how they behave and that the survivors overall don't see each other as a team.
Things like ghost would go in a different direction making the survivors a clear team. It might be a better game, but it would be a very different game requiring adjustments to the concept of the game design. 7 years in that would be very hard to do.
Lol... apparently the differences in our views on this game just keep going. In my view, the game is already highly team focused. After all, a 3v1 with more than 1 maybe 2 gens left is nearly impossible.
I do very much appreciate your posts though. While I don't agree with how you view the game, I do understand it and how my suggestion would break some of the aspects of the game that you value.
I'll need to see if I can come up with some other method to encourage not tunneling that doesn't involve removing eliminating survivors.
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Unironically the best way to slow gens right now would be to buff DS.
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Agitation.
I like that it always helps at least a little, but occasionally being faster than the survivors while carrying ends up carrying the game.
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@crogers271 said:
The best reason to not tunnel is the first one: it's boring. Yeah, the survivors might be jerks about it and you might lose some games, but if I'm bored playing a video game why am I playing it?
@FFirebrandd idea of ghost survivors - I feel like the amount of balancing that would need to be done to adjust for this would require a new game. Right now, for example, a 3v1 can be pretty interesting if its down to 1 gen to go, throw a ghost in there and the killer has very little chance.
I also think it changes the feel of the game. It's an elimination game where players are supposed to dread the third hook. Going to ghost form would alter what makes DbD exciting.
You and I have very different views on the game apparently. I personally don't find it exciting to have to be on high alert because I'm on death hook. That just means I'm really close to not being allowed to engage in the game anymore. That's not fun, that's not exciting... it's just lame and boring. Maybe it's different for solo queue survivors because they can just go next, but if you die early and you're in a swf... well... congrats. You get to just sit there and not play the game you signed up to play.
So... in my opinion, getting rid of that would be 100% worth it. Your point of balance needing to change some if they did that is almost certainly accurate, but again... I think that we'd end up with a much better game at the end of it, so it'd be worth it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608354#Comment_3608354
I'd suggest somehow adjusting the strength of Survivors in the 4v1 and 3v1.
You shouldn't have a big advantage in the 4v1 and you shouldn't be doomed in the 3v1. Then we can go about actually punishing tunneling.
That's essentially what my suggestion does. The survivors start off stronger with a 4v1, but a single hook essentially drops it to a 3.9v1. Two hooks drop it to 3.8v1. But then if the 3rd hook happens to the same survivor, the game doesn't abruptly drop to a 3v1... just a 3.5v1. Which is still good for the killer but shouldn't be insurmountable for the survivors.
On the flip side, if the Killer gets 8 hooks but no kills they're still rewarded and the Survivors are repairing at 3.2 total efficiency.
But along the way I've addressed tunneling because the killer can't fully boot a survivor out of the match anymore. They can still do it, they aren't punished for it, but they're not nearly as handsomely rewarded for it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608286#Comment_3608286
Allowing Survivors to continue to progress the game after they have died is a pretty big change to the core gameplay, yes.
Then how on earth would you fix it?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608233#Comment_3608233
You'd be completely redesigning the core game mechanics.
One of the big things in DBD is, well, Dead means dead.
So... by not touching how any of the following work: movement, gens, getting hit, healing, windows, pallets, lockers, or saving, merely allowing Survivors to keep interacting with the game... that's somehow redesigning the core game mechanics?
No. No it's not. I'm changing exactly 1 mechanic and the way it currently works is terrible for both sides.
Would this change the meta? Absolutely it would and that's literally the point. We don't want killers tunneling, so let's reduce the reward for doing it, but increase the reward for those who aren't.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608087#Comment_3608087
It's a nice idea, but ultimately, that's almost an entirely new game.
How do you figure that would make it almost an entirely new game?
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I'm on board with the M&A non FoV effect is fine as is train.
What I'd like for Shadowborn is this:
You are at home slinking through the shadows, unseen and unheard. While Undetectable and at least 16m away from a survivor and not in chase, gain 3/4/5% haste. This will not reactivate until you've been at least 16m from all survivors and not in chase for 3s.
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@Pulsar said:
There can only be a punishment for tunneling.
There is NOTHING the Devs can implement that will be stronger than removing a player from the game in the first two minutes. Therefore, there is no way to encourage spreading pressure. Even if you made PR basekit and 25% for every Survivor not hooked twice in a row, people would still tunnel because removing someone from the match is STILL STRONGER
What if it didn't then?
What if dead survivors came back as ghosts with the ability to do all their normal things except exit gates at 50% efficiency. No collision and taking a hit will banish them for ~30s.
But to balance things out a bit, getting hooked inflicts one stack of "serious wound" that reduces repair speed by 10% which can stack.
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I generally don't camp, but if I end up in a situation where I'd be a fool not to... then I will.
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Why are you expecting killers to run terrible perks?
Edit: Also I am giving survivors side objectives. What do you think deactivating SM drones is? Lot of them don't seem super keen on doing it though.
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Clown and Wraith could probably be made better via number buffs pretty easily.
If a revert to old Freddy is off the table, I'd like for him to be able to use both snares and pallets at the same time and rebuff how many of each he can have out at a time. Also the man desperately needs an addon pass.
The others... the problem with them is that their powers all can inflict more than just a health state if not properly countered. Which means they need to be easier to counter than most other killers. Which means they fall off hard once Survivors know what's up. And buffing them to be harder to counter can cause serious issues.
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The human brain is much more likely to remember negative experiences than positive ones. It does that in an effort to learn from mistakes and do better at keeping you alive. Unfortunately that isn't a particularly useful thing when you're gaming.
But that's all that's happening. You're just remembering the times you got countered better.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604308#Comment_3604308
When I was reading OP I thought they were talking surv perks until I read it again (Just now having my coffee). New killers will take a small hit with Surge and Minbreaker going behind the paywall, as they are some of the better free perks. I used MB often just for the exhaustion effect. Not having quick access to Surge (and it's synergy with another general perk Sloppy) is also something they will have missed. I don't use it often due to being screwed by RNG Gen spawns in the past, but I know it has appeal to others.
Not a fatal blow, just adapt and grind it out as always, but def a void in solid utility/gen defense solid perks since they're taken out of the free rotation.
If I were a new killer starting today and doing F2P, i'd probably still unlock Nurse and then Billy's perks first and save up shards for either Artist or Plague for a gen defense ASAP. Probably Artist for PR over Corrupt, but that's just me. Both are great at what they do.
Try a large hit. Surge/Jolt is a really good perk assuming you're on a M1 Killer. Meanwhile the next best regression perks available for free are Huntress Lullaby and Thana... which are pretty terrible and requires new players to prestige their Huntress/Nurse to use them on anyone else. AND using Thrill of the Hunt to protect Lullaby doesn't even really work anymore because they binned the notification part of it.
It's bad. It's real bad.
Edit: Actually with how bad Thana and Lullaby are now... Unnerving Presence might actually be a better option. Which is not something I thought I'd ever say.
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Yeah... they desperately need to buff up a lot of the free killer perks.
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Lowkey thought you were going to complain about Red Herring and Pebble. Which are both honestly stupid fun perks. It isn't easy to get a killer to chase a ghost, but it's so satisfying when you do.
Honestly, I'm surprised that this hasn't happened sooner. Especially since 3 of the top tier killers have powers that actively make default tracking harder.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602725#Comment_3602725
don't worry, there's no plans to remove him being 4.6m/s!
Then I implore you earnestly, make one of his addons essentially revert him to before this change.
It doesn't matter how well you guys are able to tune him, his knives are almost certainly going to need to be weaker to make room for him being 4.6. The Trickster players who love him as he is now don't deserve to lose him like I lost release Trickster.
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I came back post Chucky patch. I've played 3 games as Skull Merchant so far. Not had anyone DC or give up on hook. I have had survivors inform me that facing SM is boring to face in 2/3 of those games... but still. No free wins so far.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601650#Comment_3601650
I think it’s more a blight main thing, and the 1 in 500 survivors that know how to do it. Why it’s called the Pluto tech, I have no idea.
Dbd techs have a tendency to either have semi descriptive names (window, dumb, hug techs) or are named after the person who discovered them (CJ tech). I'm guessing it's the latter. I'd never heard of that tech until just now though.