FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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I enjoy taking perk combos or killer + perk combos that most people don't think are good and making them work anyway. Obviously some things will be so bad that almost nobody can make them work, but finding the off meta but pretty good stuff is fantastic for me.
One thing I don't enjoy is any strat, perk, or killer that is very Boom or Bust. Either you win hard or lose hard with hardly any in-between. I know some people do like those sorts of mechanics, but I very much do not.
If you're familiar with the MTG player types, I am firmly a Johnny.
Between way too many of my little pet builds getting deleted from the game or nerfed so hard they may as well have been deleted and the current meta for both sides of Snowball or Lose... I am not playing the game and not planning to come back. Part of me hopes you guys can fix it, but honestly won't be surprised if you never do.
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They severely nerfed most gen regression perks and Decisive Strike. This has had the effect of massively speeding up the game because Survivors are more likely to be running efficiency perks and killers are more likely to tunnel.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434258#Comment_3434258
not really? the killer tunnel, camp and slug is killer decision. you can equip jolt and do all those 3 actions. The change with pain res recently has made killers more campy because if your first hook is a pain res hook, you can purposely camp hooks because 2nd hook is another 25% from hook trade. even more annoying when the perk is paired with deadlock that passively blocks gens.
Yes really.
A killer who feels like they're in control of the game is less likely to feel like they need to engage in those behaviors. Most killers know that those tactics aren't fun to face, so they won't use them unless they need to or survivors drop a perfect opportunity into their laps. But if the gens start spiraling out of control, then they'll reach for those strats because they don't want to get stomped. Regression helps them stay in control.
The only real exception to this is Deadlock, which does its thing no matter what.
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You are wrong.
Fact of the matter is that usually regression perks being strong is healthy for the game. For one very simple reason.
They make killers less likely to tunnel, camp, and slug.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430194#Comment_3430194
Why should they get a free kill for Deliverance not working right though? In this case the survivor gets robbed. And if the killer hooks the survivor near exit gate isn't that a mistake of the killer?
Killer is not entitled to a free kill which hooking someone with no hook states is. Let alone someone with Deliverance. And this didn't always use to be the case. It got changed so killers are not bullied, but nothing's been done about slugging for 4 mins either out of spite or for the 4k. Why don't you complain about that? Getting robbed even if he played well all game with a perk that should be working because it has conditions to meet to be activated.( deliverance isn't active unless you rescue someone first, if you get hooked first it's a perkslot wasted). A killer who's been making mistakes all game can still end up with one kill over 1 tiny mistake or more. And if someone having Deliverance and using it in end game is no issue then why are you opposed to it? It might only save 1% of the people running it, but flashlight locker saving also got removed when probably a small percent also did. Why should I be ok with a killer who played bad all game, having even more power end game?
And if you're still a strong supporter about Deli being a time waster, then I expect you see you supporting the same for slugging for the 4k. Just take your 3k and if you're lucky you get 4k. No need to waste people's times (or is time not wasted then because it's the killer's own decision?)
Someone using Deliverance in end-game has hardly any effect on you. You just trigger EGC and if they don't make it they don't, if they do well perk was useful. Just cause it might happen 1% of the time or less should not affect you. Flashlight locker saving also got removed despite a very small portion of the playerbase doing it continuously in one match.
Deliverance is working right. If you are the last survivor in the trial, all your remaining hook states get skipped. Since your first hook stage gets skipped in that very specific situation, you can't use Deliverance.
It isn't a free kill. Firstly, they downed you and hooked you. That alone makes it not free. In addition, all the other Survivors are either dead or gone. Since 99'ing gates is a thing, that's not free either since the killer at minimum spooked your teammates into leaving. Or you have bad teammates.
I don't talk about slugging for the full 4 minutes because that ptb with basekit unbreakable and the finisher mori happened. That tells me that it's on the Dev's radar and unless I have a solution, there's no point talking about it. And I don't have a solution.
Flashlight locker saves got removed because some Survivors were abusing them. Two Survivors with flashlights and lockers shouldn't be functionally immortal... but they were. Which is why locker saves got removed. It didn't happen often, but when it did it caused so much of an issue that it couldn't stay.
I personally don't slug for the 4k unless I know exactly where the 4th person is. Do I think it's poor form to try and force the 4k like that? Sure, but again, how do you fix it without breaking other things? I don't know.
If it only might result in an escape 1% of the time, why bother enabling it? It probably won't do anything and allowing for it just wastes time on nothing.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427872#Comment_3427872
That's really silly, the survivor took a perk (say Deliverance) and he also managed to activate it. Why should the game rob him of this. Not to mention that the killer skipping two stages for last survivor has been a buff for a long time. Killers play this strategy where if a person has not being hooked they just hook them last to avoid hook states being used as resources.
Imagine Blood Warden only working if you got at least one kill before EGC, but being inactive if all 4 are alive by EGC. That would be a huge nerf to killer end game. Having Deliverance should grant the user the possibility to unhook themselves even if they're the last one remaining. If survivors have to play safe during end game out of fear for Blood Warden, killers should also play cautiously over Deliverance and not forgoing someone's hook stages just because. It would only buff solo survivor. SWF doesn't benefit from it because they a;ready have the co-ordination to use their hook states as resources for each other.
Killers can already tunnel and camp.
So you addressed exactly zero of my points about why this wouldn't be a good change. Cool.
However I'm not you so I will still engage with your points even though you didn't with mine.
If Deliverance gets changed to be usable in end game all that will happen is the killer will face camp you. That's it. Full stop. Then waits out your free BT effect and downs you 10s after you get off hook. That is a WASTE OF TIME. For everyone. Or you'll get out and it'll be seriously stupid and rob the killer of a deserved kill. THAT is why you are "robbed" of using Deliverance when you are the last one left. You had an entire game before this point to use the perk and force it if necessary. Why didn't you?
That example you gave for Blood Warden is a false equivalency. Sometimes killers don't get kills before end game. Why should they be further punished for that. Especially since the methods killers have to "force" a kill are generally hated (for good reason mind you, but they are). We don't want to further encourage that behavior more than the game already does. Also your assertion that it would be a massive nerf to killer end game is laughable. Blood Warden is not a strong perk. It very rarely gets run, and all nerfing it would do is make the few people who do meme with it just stop.
I fail to see what tunneling and camping have to do with this discussion. In fact, Deliverance can potentially be used to bust up a tunnel. After it is active, body block the killer, force them to down you, and if they hook you, you can get off the hook no problem. Seriously... if you have an active Deliverance and you're the last one left... one of two things has happened. Either your teammates left you to die and that sucks, or you failed to run interference for several death hook teammates.
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Allowing that to happen will result in 1 of 4 things happening.
- Survivor doesn't self unhook and wastes another minute of the killers time in a won game. This helps no one. This getting removed is good.
- Survivor does self unhook but fails. This is hardly different than how it currently works.
- Survivor self unhooks successfully, but gets caught again. This accomplished exactly nothing other than wasting time in a game that's over. Nothing is lost by this outcome getting deleted.
- Survivor self unhooks and by some combination of luck and perks, they manage to get out an open gate or hatch. This outcome is absolute garbage. If you are the only survivor left in the trial and are downed or on hook, why should you not die when you are in a terrible spot and have no teammates to help you. Trick question. You should absolutely die in that situation. Any perk that could potentially rescue you from that fate will 1000% feel like the killer got robbed. Because they did.
There are literally no good outcomes for allowing this. Only bad. It sucks that your teammates literally killed you, but that's how it be in a team game sometimes. In fact, they should make the Yellow Mori base kit.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423952#Comment_3423952
Do you not agree that SM and her ability to hold games hostage is bad design?
Or are you just arguing the point?
I've got no problem with SM being capable of using her power to slow games down. However she does seem to be too good at it. So from my pov, she's more of a balancing problem than a design one.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423880#Comment_3423880
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421405#Comment_3421405
I appear to have not gotten the notification that you replied, apologies.
Fact: Her lore is bad. I've not seen a single person defend it and it's been meme'd to death. Even her Tome isn't looking good. I could've wrote something better for free.
Fact: Her power is only good at holding down specific areas of the map. This leaves her with two "viable" styles of play. Totem defender and 3-gens.
Fact: Her power allows her to use Overcharge, Call of Brine and other gen kicking perks to their fullest potential, meaning she can effectively hold games hostage.
Fact: Her power cannot be buffed without it buffing her aforementioned playstyles, I call this, Legion-syndrome.
Fact: Her optimal playstyle (3-genning) is only able to be beaten by coordinated teams willing to waste half an hour of their lives.
Fact: Without her 3-gens or totem defending, she's almost useless. She has a tiny amount of stealth and some of her add-ons make her function like Knight. Place Drone at loop, leave loop, repeat.
Fact: Her chase music is a 1 second loop.
She's the worst designed Killer overall. If you enjoy playing her, that's completely fine. I enjoy playing Legion, but that doesn't mean that I don't recognize that they are also poorly designed
I would like to point out that those facts only prove that SM is a badly designed killer if the person you are talking to agrees with the opinion that a killer who heavily specializes in territory control is bad for the game.
One could in fact argue her design is very good since she's arguably the best territory control killer we've ever gotten. Our other two main ones are Trapper and Hag who aren't exactly amazing.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423686#Comment_3423686
To preface I'm not judging you or anyone who does this, but I am curious what keeps people around on here if they qre done with the game
For me it's a mixture of probably misplaced optimism and the vindication if/when things get even worse.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423396#Comment_3423396
I don't really think camping should be straight up removed just bc that just doesn't make much sense. I just think it shouldn't be as effective as it currently is/can be, for example with bubba or stbfl or deadlock etc.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423435#Comment_3423435
I'm fine with that but it should always have counterplay, but with again bubba as an example, it just doesn't
Sure, but against most killers it does have counterplay. Playing around hook grabs is possible.
So then it becomes a question of how do you make Bubba, Trickster, and maybe a few others worse at camping without messing things up for anyone else? Or for people attempting to play those killers without camping?
I don't have an answer, and I doubt the devs do either.
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I was with you until the us vs them crap.
Yes tunneling and camping are issues and are too prevalent.
But did you somehow miss the fact that the Devs are playing wack a mole with killer regression perks?
That's half the reason it's as bad as it is. Killers are much worse at slowing down gens than they used to be and survivors are faster because they aren't filling their builds with 2nd chances... so... killers are slowing the game down by yeeting a survivor out the match.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423375#Comment_3423375
Making killers less able to defend hooks and more able to defend gens is the way IMO, I'm not saying I agree w this exact idea but to say that camping should straight up be a viable strategy...I wish we'd just get real sometimes
So... here's the thing.
I do think that the game should not be encouraging camping and tunneling nearly as much as it does. Pop and DS both desperately need to be buffed.
However making those strats not an option is also not a good idea simply because the end game exists the way it does. At that stage of the game, the gens are done so defending them isn't an option. Exit gates go too fast to be defended vs more than 1 survivor and can't really be changed because of the post hatch stomp situation. So what's left? Defending a hook if you've got one.
That's why camping has to stay at least semi viable. It is literally the only card left for a killer to play in the end game. The game should never get to a point where the killer might as well open the gate and stand in the corner/basement once gens are done because they have no chance once that happens.
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@Wowie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420867#Comment_3420867
every meta is called the least fun meta
wonder what the next one will be
People have been tunneling, camping, slugging and gen rushing and complaining about it since I started the game. This is the first time there's not been a particularly viable alternative.
Idk about you, but I'd say that makes it the least fun.
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So... basically you want people to give you ways of countering this while saying every way of countering this situation is invalid.
Got it.
I suppose if you hate it that much you could play Legion. As Legion it is likely that most survivors will be injured and therefore unlikely to go for a pallet save. If someone healthy is hanging around you can usually pop Frenzy and stab them to get them to buzz off and let you pick up (which you can do mid power btw).
Edit: You also seem to be missing that the killer is in a far stronger position when compared to the old locker save situation. In that situation, the Survivors had all the cards as long as they had flashlight juice. In this situation, if nobody gets the survivor up, they die in 4 minutes. If the killer does chase the would be rescuer, they still have 3 survivors not on generators which is still pretty good.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421315#Comment_3421315
There's no way you're seriously suggesting EC, BP, SA, keys and maps.
A big issue with the game currently is that both Killer and Survivor have perks that they def need to have some sort of consistency to their games. This restricts builds so much.
I was giving all the options I could think of. Not claiming all of them were good. Also SA is actually quite good. You as the user just can't really see its effects.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421315#Comment_3421315
Because it should be basekit, it's already so easy in swf
And what would you be willing to give killers in return? And how would you make it not make SWF even stronger too?
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421308#Comment_3421308
Would u consider solos having an easier time finding each other to get healed butchering hnr? jw
There's already a ton of tools to do that though.
Bond, Empathy, Aftercare, Empathetic Connection, Kindred, Blood Pact, Situational Awareness, keys with certain addons, and map with the beacon addon all exist. Why do you feel like you need more?
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421295#Comment_3421295
That's cuz dbds balanced in a way that just so happens to make the douchiest strats the most effective. I don't complain about the ppl who use them but I wanna see the devs make the more interesting and engaging strats meta
Or... and hear me out here... DBD is set up the way it is so that killers don't have to play in only one way. Because that'd be hella boring.
Behavior probably should make taking chases more appealing by buffing the perks that support that, but doing it by butchering hnr is not the way.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421270#Comment_3421270
"Outside of the strategy survivors don't hate survivors seem to hate every strategy"
For ~12 of the killers in this game, looping simulator is not a viable approach.
For the rest, most of them have been complained about heavily because they "cheat" the looping process through either antiloop or in chase mobility.
The only killers and playstyles I've seen not gather ire from survivors are ones that aren't effective.
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Welcome to the least fun meta dbd has ever seen. Maybe they'll fix it... maybe.
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Revert the entirety of Deathslinger's nerf he got a while ago. Instead nerf how fast he can walk backwards with someone on the chain.
Modify Trickster's meme add on to basically revert him to his release stats + old knife pouch.
Buff Pop to 30% and Ruin to 150%.
Buff SC to 41%. Change Botany Knowledge to be 40% heal speed and axe the medkit efficiency penalty.
Rework all boons to function without the killer present. Give the ability to break boons base kit. Make CoH give the ability to self heal and +50% heal speed for altruistic healing.
Nerf Prove Thyself to 10% instead of 15%.
Buff Decisive Strike, so it is still a 3s stun, but it also locks out power use for 3s after the stun.
Get rid of that dumb action speed penalty that Calm Spirit has.
Kill switch Garden of Joy until it can get reworked.
Mostly for fun: make the Yellow Mori base kit.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420332#Comment_3420332
They did; They're not taking away Killer player agency just because some Survivors have decided they can dictate how and when Killers try to win.
Don't know how else to say it. 🤷♂️
One could argue that they did in fact do that. They've nerfed gen regression so hard that trying to win without tunneling, camping, or slugging is a fool's errand.
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It's dead. Bhvr killed it.
What I used to really enjoy is trawling through the off meta perks looking for interesting and fun ways to use them.
Two "meta shake ups" later... all the stuff I was using is meta, which makes me not interested anymore and the previously meta stuff pretty much all got axed so hard to be not worth it.
In addition to that, they giga nerfed some perks even though they weren't meta in the first place. Like... nobody was asking for turbo nerfs for BK, SC, and calm spirit but... they did it anyway.
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You haven't heard any complaints about Deathslinger because nobody plays him anymore because he got nerfed to be super clunky and just not fun. Instead of nerfing the thing about him that was actually pretty busted.
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Release Trickster. Might get some confusion on this but I don't really care.
Old Deathslinger.
Old Freddy. I wasn't actually around for him, but everything I know about him sounds fanastic.
Hawkins should come back as a reskinned All Kill map.
Old Self Care. Old Botany Knowledge.
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If your Demogorgon isn't Prestige 1, it isn't turned on for him yet. All characters work like that. Can't start using the automatic bloodweb until the character is at least P1.
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Sloppy is mostly fine the way it is.
It's interaction with Resurgence, Solidarity, and Reactive Healing might need looked at, but no other aspect of the perk is a problem.
In your OP you called it Free so many times. Sloppy Butcher is applied via basic hits. In what universe is the killer landing an M1 on you free? Is it something they were going to do anyway? Yeah probably, but the actual act of getting a hit is not free.
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Could be the circle obscuring the auras, could be distortion.
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Yes. At one point I put forward the idea that it should turn into more of an anti tunneling perk. But it didn't gain much traction.
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The only grab I'd be ok with having removed is healthy locker grabs. Not the pull mind you, just the mid animation grab. And glyph grabs because that's just dumb... the survivor finishing a glyph doesn't hurt the killer at all.
Every killer in the game should have the ability to defend an objective even/especially if a survivor tries to do it in their face. That's what healthy grabs allow. The 1 in the 1v4 to overpower 1 of the 4 no matter what.
On my opinion healthy locker grabs can go because they aren't objectives. They, like vaults, are defenses so should probably follow the same rules as vaults.
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So... you're at least partially able to admit that one side has a distinct win/loss state (escape/dead) then don't realize that that alone creates an implied win/loss state for their opponent?
If one side has a distinct win/loss and the other doesn't, it is a very tiny logical leap from "All my opponents achieved their win condition." to "I lost". Similarly, it is easy to go from "None of my opponents achieved a win." to "I won". Then it's just a question of where the line in the sand is drawn between those two extremes.
To get the win condition to go away from kills, the game would need a massive overhaul.
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@leviivel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410968#Comment_3410968
yes indeed, I enjoy running weird stuff because I am confident in my skills and enjoy variety instead of running the same things over and over because it makes me rely on them too much.
I like variety and off meta stuff too, but I have no interest in perks that basically require the stars to perfectly align to get value. Which is where most of the boons are sitting right now. And they can't really get buffed out of that spot because boon spots on upper floors exist that killers don't have reasonable ways of dealing with.
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@leviivel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410948#Comment_3410948
while this could work, i think that partly kills the fun of Boons (for me personally), I think making the blessing faster at base but putting a temporary speed penalty for blessing after a totem is snuffed would make them more enticing (or maybe make snuffing a full second longer to give survivors more distance).
also base-kit totem breaking might lead to a pentimento meta, and god knows nobody wants to sit through gens with 27 extra seconds.
You like playing with perks that are useless outside of incredibly niche circumstances? What?
Also I don't see a problem with Pentimento becoming better. It's a good effect, but highly counterable since somebody on your team is guaranteed to know where it is. Killers being able to break a boon then light Pentimento without another perk isn't that crazy.
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Here's a better idea... make the other boons more like CoH then give killers the ability to break boon totems base kit.
Let's be clear here... with a 14s setup time, your team need to get multiple uses out of a boon for it to be worth it. You will basically never get that on boons that need itself, a survivor, and a killer all in the same area. It'll just get snuffed. Or it's abusing elevation differences which is bad for other reasons.
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@PapaEmeritus69 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410241#Comment_3410241
Sure, they should and they do to a certain degree. But wouldn't you say its better to be an overall more skilled and consistent player in your fundamentals than having to run bamboozle or windows with every build? Knowing what tiles are worth playing and which chases are worth taking is easily the strongest skill to have in this game, especially as a killer. No perk tells you which survivor is the weakest on the team, that's something you learn by playing.
I agree with you on Pop and BBQ, they incentivize multiple chases and hooks. The only problem with them is nurse and blight exist. And you can say any killer perk in the game and I'll say that right back to you. Cause they are the issue when it comes to making more perks that reward healthy play. You'd just be making those two even stronger and that's not great. They are the best at getting multiple hooks so you're essentially buffing them when you go down that lane.
To the pain points thing, I'd say we still have many ways to deal with our short comings or annoyances. In regression and gen defense we still have dead mans switch, Deadlock, Corrupt, Pain res is still pretty good, Thrilling, discordance, jolt, pop has been coming back, I've seen eruption still carry some games even. To that though, I'd really like to see them make call of brine better and overcharge, I hate having dead perks that just collect dust and they bullied those two out of the game.
Essentially you're right, perks are crutches in some way to make up for a shortcoming a player or killer has. But if you can play without that crutch, you'll only get stronger. No hate on the crutch but some of them are almost considered staples at this point and no one likes loading into a game and seeing 0 perk diversity from either side. Lately its been fun seeing what everyone has decided to run at the very least. yeah, most still bring whatever is the best but some people have been going outside of the box and that's been pretty interesting.
The problem with your stance is that there are a ton of pain points in this game that can't get solved by getting good... but can get solved with perks. If Behavior decides to kill the perk(s) you used to solve your pain point, you as a player are now in a terrible situation where your choices are: you quit the game, or play anyway... hoping you don't run into your pain point, suffer if you do... and probably quit after getting absolutely fed up with the game.
Combine the above with the fact that Behavior has been on an absolute war path against any perk that is meta AND a handful that absolutely aren't, they have created a ton of player resentment. That's literally never a good thing. Especially since they've made the least healthy meta I've ever seen.
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@notJustDante said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410702#Comment_3410702
A few things...
-This is already something that she can do;
-She is still an M1 killer at the end of the day and pre-dropping just ruins this playstyle, for the killer to do this and still get the down they would have to lose all gens in the process;
-Simply getting someone exposed with this playstyle, even with this change, would take longer than old Legion would take to down someone with their power.
Making the drone activate immediately doesn't make this strategy any more viable, just makes zoning a little bit more viable. Either way, with or without this change, what's going to happen is probably the survivor will hold W, and the killer will catch up before they get to another loop, this change does not affect this situation at all.
It's not something she can currently do.
Drones have a radius of 16m and a power on time of 3s. Survivors can cross that amount of distance in 4s. Since SM can't actually put the drone directly over a survivor because of collision, SM will get less than 1s of lock on time every time she does this on live. Having to go through 10+ deployments to make this happen is way too slow.
Instant power on means that instead of survivors getting 12m of distance on the drone before lock on starts, they get zero. So, SM getting 3s or more worth of lock on every deployment is likely. Getting Lock On in that amount of time is probably fast enough to make this work.
Throw in that only a fool would try this without Readout, Brutal, and Bamboozle... that's looking a hell of a lot like an uncounterable situation for the survivor.
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@notJustDante said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410679#Comment_3410679
So all you do is say my update is bad because more nerfs than buffs then don't say anything about why these changes are bad in your opinion. Not only that but you put a hostile tone in your text.
We are trying to find solutions here, not fight. DaddyMyers_Mori is having a really healthy discussion with me, pointing at what they think are the issues with my update, presenting arguments, etc.
Please if you are going to say my ideas are bad at least add something to the discussion.
I did contribute.
If you allow SM's drones to instantly activate, somebody will 100% use her to just drop them on a survivor's head over and over and over again, which she'll be able to do because 1 stack of haste + geographical readout gives +5% haste. Eventually the survivor will get exposed and get insta downed and there's next to nothing the survivor can do about it.
That'll probably be more unhealthy than her 3 genning.
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So... let me get this straight.
Your title says fix without ruin...
Then you proceed to throw a kitchen sink worth of nerfs at her. With only 2 buffs.
One of said buffs is nearly irrelevant. The other will probably turn her into the equivalent of 120% movespeed Ghostface who can't get broken out of shroud and basically doesn't slow down to stalk. Which will be incredibly obnoxious to play against for an entirely different reason.
Well. Done.
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@PapaEmeritus69 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409626#Comment_3409626
I agree with you, its completely dependent on how someone takes the game or personally decides to play it. But my argument would be that the majority of players lack certain fundamentals because they relied so heavily on the things that were baked into the game to protect them. I feel for the people that say they aren't having fun because they lost X thing, but blanket statements on your experience being weaker as a whole don't really stand on those laurels alone. If you can't cope without that thing, that isn't a statement on the games health, its personal. Doesn't mean you're bad, just that you need to find alternatives or improve in other places.
We have this coming from both sides, meaning they're both missing this safeguard. I can relate. When the kicking/pop meta died like 4 years ago or whatever, I felt lost as a killer. I played Ghost Face with surveillance/pop/bbq/bamboozle, and I felt unstoppable and thought I was really getting good. Then they nerfed it to the ground and I realized how ineffective my pressure skills were and my game sense was ass without bbq telling me where to use pop every game. I decided to quit for a while cause I blamed the game, not me. When I could have been taking my chases smarter, or dropping bad tiles faster, stuff that I didn't have to do when I could just POP everything if I just got the smallest snowball going.
I understand why people are saying that balance isn't nerfering both sides at the same time but these were things that were both massively unhealthy for the game as a whole. 3 gening isn't particularly fun for either side, at least for me. And hitting a survivor and watching them heal back to full while in chase is probably one of the most demoralizing things that can happen while playing killer. These were addressed pretty well in my opinion. medkits were broken for way to long and coh should have never let you self heal. I think the DH change was harsh tho.
I strongly disagree with you. A perk system can and should ease pain points that players have with the game. Don't like not knowing where to go to get into your next chase? That's fine... run BBQ or some other info perk. Don't like it when the killer leaves you on the ground? Run Unbreakable, Tenacity, and the like. Don't like losing gens so fast you feel like you have to play absolutely ruthless to have a chance? That's what slowdown and regression is for. Don't like getting downed again without at least a chance of doing something in chase? Run self healing. Not everyone's tastes are the same. This isn't necessarily a git gud issue. Some players who are complaining probably could deal with whatever their pain point is that was dealt with with a perk, but simply don't want to so they won't. Video games are supposed to be fun after all.
Also, Pop and BBQ are actually some of the healthiest killer perks in the game bar none. They should have rebuffed at least Pop this last patch.
3 genning, medkits, and coh changes were all... at least decent. DH they took the wrong way, but it did deserve a nerf.
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I used to tunnel keys any time I saw them, but that was back under the old Hatch rules. New keys are just whatever. Medkits and tool boxes are stronger than keys now.
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@PapaEmeritus69 said:
I don't get this woe is me and mine mentality right now. If we have a new thread come up every 5 minutes from someone saying they quit killer or survivor because X thing is broken, then what is the real issue? Are they both right or is this proof that the game is actually getting close to some kind of balance and people don't really like that?
I'm a 60/40 killer pref player and I have to say, this is one of the BEST metas I've ever played in the last 4 or 5 years. All I can say anecdotally is that 90% of my survivor games start with someone DCing or killing themselves on hook. As killer, my games can range from pub stomp to sweat fest but I usually feel in control more or less. Playing with hard regression every game dulled a lot of you guys in my opinion, just like it dulled a lot of survivors when they had a 7 second self heal. You lost your comfortable tools and now you don't know what to do without them. So you're sputtering instead of adapting, both sides.
The meta on both sides changed.
Survivor went from 2nd chances to gen rush. Killers went from regression to tunneling/camping/slugging.
Depending on the person, those changes could easily make the game be absolutely terrible. We're not close to balance, we've ended up in a meta where neither side really gets to play the game.
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Remove exposed and lean a heck of a lot more into what her addons currently do where her Drones are little buff/debuff stations.
I don't have any specifics, but that's the direction I would go.
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@liamdicaprio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408320#Comment_3408320
jrm uploaded dead island 2 cause he thaught it was more fun then dbd rn if that does not say alot idk. even ayrun joined him....
Or Dead Island 2 threw a bunch of money to sponsor various content creators including Otz and Hens and probably JRM too.
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So... your overall point I agree with. The Devs should not be encouraging tunneling and camping but they are.
I do however do not agree with your assertion that buffing DH is the solution. I'd much rather they buff up DS, OtR, whatever Camaraderie is called now, Pop Goes the Weasel, and Hex: Ruin. So they do a mix of making tunneling and camping harder and not doing that be more rewarding.
As it stands right now, Dead Hard is too problematic a perk to be a solution for anything.
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The devs went on a warpath against most good Killer Gen defense perks.
So... now a decent amount of killers feel like defending gens is impossible... so they don't bother and just try to win by making the game a 3v1 asap.
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@Adagio_InDminor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405904#Comment_3405904
How is this different from Overcome? in fact it's worse because getting hit gives deep wound, and Overcome happens even on first chase at the start of the match. I can't tell you how to think, nor would I try, but it just seems to me like you are overvaluing the perk. If you factor in how many times people screw it up, or miss-time it it has way more ways to be ineffective than any other exhaustion perk.
Overcome isn't a third health state. All it is is making the post hit burst of speed longer. It's strong, but it does not and cannot warp the entire game around even its potential presence.
It's raw power is not as high as Dead Hard's so while it doesn't have any telegraphing, it doesn't need it.
Pre nerf Dead Hard on the other hand was so powerful and changed the dynamics of the chase so much that any killer who didn't try to play around it vs a survivor who hadn't shown an exhaustion perk was a fool. A perk that powerful should give hints that it’s in play.
Post nerf Dead Hard still has that potential level of power.. just only 2 times instead of 3+. That's why I like neither Behavior's change to it nor yours.
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@Adagio_InDminor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405834#Comment_3405834
Agreed. Going against the perk is just waiting or baiting them to waste their use of it. That hasn't changed since ever...
I'm more referring to the fact that the effect it gives now is potentially insanely strong. To the tune of lengthening a chase by +50%. That's way too strong to not have any sort of Telegraphing.
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Your suggestion doesn't fix the issues with going against the perk.
Granted neither does Behavior's change, but still.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405775#Comment_3405775
Why 41% specifically, as opposed to rounding one way or the other?
Short answer: DBD's weird math makes that be the spot where Get healed, then double up on a gen vs SC, then double up on a gem is pretty much the same efficiency.
Long answer I've posted earlier:
So funny thing. I finally realized why Self Care got butchered during the 6.1 patch.
It's because the -15% gen stacking penalty exists.
Because of that, it was actually more overall efficient to heal yourself with Self Care then joining the gen as opposed to the other survivor healing you then both hopping on the gen. To the tune of saving 4.8 charges. Which is honestly a lot higher than you'd think.
So... Behavior slapped it with a -15% nerf.
Problem is that DbD math is weird. That nerf actually flip flopped it. So now if you compare those two situations, Self Care now loses those same 4.8 charges which makes it absolutely terrible.
What they should have done and should do asap is set SC to 41% because that happens to be the spot where SC then double up and Altruistic Heal then double is closest in efficiency. Less than 0.15 charges different.