PapaEmeritus69
PapaEmeritus69
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@survivormainwarrior said:
Pig already got an extreme buff which puts her in the top tier killers. You don't need yet another hand out. Time to look at your skills and the numerous mistakes you're making and fix those instead.
Top Tier? Sure, she's right up there with Ghost Face.
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This one time, Plague puked on me. It was very toxic. I was sick within seconds. Sad days 😔
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We're playing a game of cat and mouse. Think about Tom and Jerry. Jerry is always cheeky and teases Tom when he gets away. Survivors feel empowered when they stand at the gate and get to teabag and point. They don't know you , they just know that moments ago you were hunting them and trying to kill them. So it's not personal or anything. Honestly, its part of the game and people should just accept it or ignore it. Hitting on hook, teabagging, clicking, w and sing, nodding, pointing. They're all similes of each other and so far from anything that could be considered actually toxic.
I commend you for being chill and letting people escape or at least giving them the chance but most of the time you can't communicate that. If they get hatch, they're going to consider it outplaying you and might give you the bags or say ggez at the end of the game. You'll be ok. We all will brother.
If you're on PC, hit them with a solid GG at the end and tell them GLN and move on. This stuff isn't worth dwelling on long and you will just start to resent and hate this game.
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I generally don't care about perks and don't really get bothered by much in the game. I always try to make my own fun, whether I'm survivor or killer.
However, Ive lately been feeling like windows and 5 moves ahead (mostly this one) have been giving just so much of an advantage to lower skilled players. Skill expression should be important and it's hard to learn or get better when all you do is pre-drop every pallet and run to the next. With how many pallets are in game in some maps now, you just don't have time get much done.
On survivor, I still dislike the pain res, dms combo. It's annoying that the counterplay to one of them immediately activates the other. I don't think its OP or an issue, just personally annoying.
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A team getting 4 man slugged at 5 gens is not the fault of the killer, like ever. But any killer who maliciously bleeds out 4 people is pretty lame.
That said, you always have to take in consideration the perspectives of the players. Tunneling and camping can be pretty obvious sometimes but other times it's simply because the killer has no other good option. I'll try to spread my hooks out as much as possible, Win or lose. But if I happen to only see the injured guy that just got unhooked, I'm going for him sometimes. But it can look and feel like tunneling to them.
Either way. I'm enjoying the mode for what it is on both sides. Haven't had any 4 man bleed out sluggers yet lol.
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I think its all relative to your perspective. I don't see what the killer or other survivors see, so I base most of the perspective off my own. Anything that happens to you in the game can feel malicious sometimes but I think if you we all just stepped back and looked from a birds eye, it would be pretty obvious that most people are just playing the game the way they want and not to spite others.
Those terms are almost always used negatively, so the people that do the accusing are usually feeling some kind of way. Just GG and tip the hat. Go gettem next time tiger.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513168#Comment_3513168
If MFT gets revealed to the killer, do you think perks like Hubris, Coup de Grâce, NOED should also reveal to survivor or not? Because the situation is kind of similar, you can't really know the other player has it, until you get screwed by it...
I agree it's bad design to have perks like this but it's how it works for many of the killer perks at the moment, seen from the survivor side, and yet I bet you don't find these perks as unfair?
Totally see your point but that isn't really true in the same sense. Many perks on both sides are aura perks that only that player knows about and no one has an issue with that. Once Hubris is activated and you go down, you know. If you get hit by Coup and see it, you know, NOED too, bloodwarden, no way out, they are all revealed and not a mystery at that point. Pretty much every exceptionally strong perk can be gleamed by context clues or you at least know when it is finally used or activated. The issue with MFT is that it really can't be, other than the endurance effect and even that could be several other perks. Its really hard to tell if someone has it or not at any point and you might only find out at the end.
Not sure if giving a hint is the right thing to do but it certainly is tricky to sus out sometimes. Its almost like the subtle speed hacking. You can guess all day but you don't know until the end really. I've been hitting air on short loops a lot recently so it can be pretty sneaky.
For me though the endurance is the only super annoying part. The haste is wild with hope but I look at it like most end game perks, I'm the reason it got to that because I couldn't end it before the gens got done. Kind of like old DS. I personally thought it was fine that you could use it at EGC cause you shouldn't be punished for the killer doing poorly. However, stacking haste could get crazy later. It should be watched closely.
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Face camping in the early game is about the easiest way for a killer to throw. So many perks can deter this and make the tactic honestly detrimental to your game right off the get. But is it fun? With Mikey and Ghost face, kind of. They are goofy and look so adorable standing there looking up at you on the hook. Fills my heart with joy every time. Otherwise, not really. Its bad early and boring any time.
Tunneling is effective against weak players on most killers. If you have fun winning, you probably have fun tunneling. If I cared about the W every game, I'd target the weakest player and drain them dry. I'd probably be having plenty of fun still but maybe not the other guy.
Slugging is 100% a necessary tactic sometimes to have a chance to create some pressure, especially while playing particularly slow moving killers or guys with those sexy one hit downs. If the question is, is it fun to slug? Then I would say, sure, about as fun as hooking someone. A down is a down, not hooking is a choice. If you slug or bleed someone out to annoy them then yeah, bm and boring. If you do it because its a viable and fair tactic, then groovy. Lots of perks counter it if you don't like worming around.
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Killer- Zanshin Tactics. Started using it as a meme and it's actually pretty legit for planning chase paths. It is exceptionally good on Clown too since most pre-drop against him, you can predict which setups they will insta drop just by seeing the aura. Also, if you're experienced you can kinda tell what tile is spawned based on the pallet on some structures. Bitter Murmur is also great, super consistent and pretty much always useful.
Survivor- Parental Guidance + Smash Hit is so fun when it works right. Throw in some quick and quiet and you're cooking. Autodidact is a lot of fun too. I feel like a hero when it works! (when)
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5s and let it work at egc again. If I'm killer and I don't get your ds until the end, you should get to use it still.
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This would be great. Also let him start trial in 3rd tier and make it so pallets get blocked too.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409657#Comment_3409657
I strongly disagree with you. A perk system can and should ease pain points that players have with the game. Don't like not knowing where to go to get into your next chase? That's fine... run BBQ or some other info perk. Don't like it when the killer leaves you on the ground? Run Unbreakable, Tenacity, and the like. Don't like losing gens so fast you feel like you have to play absolutely ruthless to have a chance? That's what slowdown and regression is for. Don't like getting downed again without at least a chance of doing something in chase? Run self healing. Not everyone's tastes are the same. This isn't necessarily a git gud issue. Some players who are complaining probably could deal with whatever their pain point is that was dealt with with a perk, but simply don't want to so they won't. Video games are supposed to be fun after all.
Also, Pop and BBQ are actually some of the healthiest killer perks in the game bar none. They should have rebuffed at least Pop this last patch.
3 genning, medkits, and coh changes were all... at least decent. DH they took the wrong way, but it did deserve a nerf.
Sure, they should and they do to a certain degree. But wouldn't you say its better to be an overall more skilled and consistent player in your fundamentals than having to run bamboozle or windows with every build? Knowing what tiles are worth playing and which chases are worth taking is easily the strongest skill to have in this game, especially as a killer. No perk tells you which survivor is the weakest on the team, that's something you learn by playing.
I agree with you on Pop and BBQ, they incentivize multiple chases and hooks. The only problem with them is nurse and blight exist. And you can say any killer perk in the game and I'll say that right back to you. Cause they are the issue when it comes to making more perks that reward healthy play. You'd just be making those two even stronger and that's not great. They are the best at getting multiple hooks so you're essentially buffing them when you go down that lane.
To the pain points thing, I'd say we still have many ways to deal with our short comings or annoyances. In regression and gen defense we still have dead mans switch, Deadlock, Corrupt, Pain res is still pretty good, Thrilling, discordance, jolt, pop has been coming back, I've seen eruption still carry some games even. To that though, I'd really like to see them make call of brine better and overcharge, I hate having dead perks that just collect dust and they bullied those two out of the game.
Essentially you're right, perks are crutches in some way to make up for a shortcoming a player or killer has. But if you can play without that crutch, you'll only get stronger. No hate on the crutch but some of them are almost considered staples at this point and no one likes loading into a game and seeing 0 perk diversity from either side. Lately its been fun seeing what everyone has decided to run at the very least. yeah, most still bring whatever is the best but some people have been going outside of the box and that's been pretty interesting.
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@Dennis1242 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409657#Comment_3409657
Can I ask you a question tho? What is with this randomness in matches. I played 2 matches with nurse. The first one ended in like 4 minutes with a 4k and the other one ended with only 1 hook against a genrushing squad
Randomness is always going to be an element of this game, its in fact a huge gameplay mechanic. Maps are random, tiles are random, teammates are essentially random in solo Q, as are spawns for the most part. MMR isn't entirely accurate with skill, and some metrics found that a soft cap is implemented that makes the system really no different than the old ranking system. Essentially we are either playing against New players, bad players, and decent player. New is pretty self explanatory, they have little to no experience. Bad is people who have played for some time but still hover on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of skill. Decent is people who can survive a trial semi consistently and have decent to very good looping skills and understanding of game mechanics.
The problem is that most of the player base is DECENT, which also encompasses highly skilled or great because the mmr doesn't track that difference, only major ones. So one game you could have 4 decent players that look like potatoes compared the next group you get. That's my understanding at least. So you'll face drastically different levels of players, even on the highest mmr scale. And swfs changes everything when it is competent people.
As for your games, getting 1 hook with nurse in a 4 or 5 minute game (assuming it was short because you were gen rushed) is pretty definitive that you aren't particularly good with her. She's still the best killer in the game and any decent nurse can do a lot of damage with her, even perkless. You probably played 4 easier opponents the first match , even though they were close to similar mmr. Then your next game was better players but still in that mmr bracket. It can jarring to get a 4k easy one match and lose your pants the next, I know, but that is how it works. You wont win every game, you wont lose every game. And I'd be willing to bet you win most of them.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409610#Comment_3409610
The meta on both sides changed.
Survivor went from 2nd chances to gen rush. Killers went from regression to tunneling/camping/slugging.
Depending on the person, those changes could easily make the game be absolutely terrible. We're not close to balance, we've ended up in a meta where neither side really gets to play the game.
I agree with you, its completely dependent on how someone takes the game or personally decides to play it. But my argument would be that the majority of players lack certain fundamentals because they relied so heavily on the things that were baked into the game to protect them. I feel for the people that say they aren't having fun because they lost X thing, but blanket statements on your experience being weaker as a whole don't really stand on those laurels alone. If you can't cope without that thing, that isn't a statement on the games health, its personal. Doesn't mean you're bad, just that you need to find alternatives or improve in other places.
We have this coming from both sides, meaning they're both missing this safeguard. I can relate. When the kicking/pop meta died like 4 years ago or whatever, I felt lost as a killer. I played Ghost Face with surveillance/pop/bbq/bamboozle, and I felt unstoppable and thought I was really getting good. Then they nerfed it to the ground and I realized how ineffective my pressure skills were and my game sense was ass without bbq telling me where to use pop every game. I decided to quit for a while cause I blamed the game, not me. When I could have been taking my chases smarter, or dropping bad tiles faster, stuff that I didn't have to do when I could just POP everything if I just got the smallest snowball going.
I understand why people are saying that balance isn't nerfering both sides at the same time but these were things that were both massively unhealthy for the game as a whole. 3 gening isn't particularly fun for either side, at least for me. And hitting a survivor and watching them heal back to full while in chase is probably one of the most demoralizing things that can happen while playing killer. These were addressed pretty well in my opinion. medkits were broken for way to long and coh should have never let you self heal. I think the DH change was harsh tho.
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A 20-30 second chase that leads to a down is pretty damn good, and the only way they could have a gen done that fast is if multiple people were on it with toolboxes and bnps, which is possible of course but not likely every match. And even if that is the case, its one gen at the start that gets focused with items. If you're getting dogpiled on generators, maybe you should try something like discordance so you know if people are doubling up?
I don't know, post your gameplay somewhere and get an objective opinion from someone else, maybe having another set of eyes on what you're doing could help you improve? Like I really don't know at this point with a lot of peoples complaints. I play billy most of my games with shadow born, bbq, infectious, and lethal and still win a good chunk of them. I slug when it affords me pressure in a smart way but I go out of my way not to tunnel or camp just for personal reasons and I STILL do alright usually. Some games are going to be a wash, that's for sure. You get into a 4 or 3 man swf with bnps and gen perks, yeah it can fly. But that isn't every game.
Its impossible to say this stuff without it seeming like humble brags but its just true. And I find it really hard to believe other killers aren't winning more than 50% of their games. Makes me kind of sad that not everyone is enjoying the changes, cause I really do think they are so close to being in a VERY good place with the meta. Nurse and Blight are holding them back from making killers better though and I think that's a huge problem.
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I don't get this woe is me and mine mentality right now. If we have a new thread come up every 5 minutes from someone saying they quit killer or survivor because X thing is broken, then what is the real issue? Are they both right or is this proof that the game is actually getting close to some kind of balance and people don't really like that?
I'm a 60/40 killer pref player and I have to say, this is one of the BEST metas I've ever played in the last 4 or 5 years. All I can say anecdotally is that 90% of my survivor games start with someone DCing or killing themselves on hook. As killer, my games can range from pub stomp to sweat fest but I usually feel in control more or less. Playing with hard regression every game dulled a lot of you guys in my opinion, just like it dulled a lot of survivors when they had a 7 second self heal. You lost your comfortable tools and now you don't know what to do without them. So you're sputtering instead of adapting, both sides.
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I think it would be nice to show its activated some way for sure but I don't really agree with either of the perks being used to incentivize your teammates to do generators, unless you're being hard camped of course. I see them as a means to help you or your teammates from dying, not promoting gens over friends. I know that's sort of irrelevant cause people will use the perks how they see fit, I just find it kind of unhealthy for gameplay personally.
Overall though, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have some kind of visual so you know.
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No, it was an abomination and should never have existed in the first place.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408013#Comment_3408013
Not to be a smart arse it's like A Christmas Carol but in DBD every time a hook gets camped a gen gets done.... this would make those lazy killers actually seek and destroy rather than face camp. Or at least speed up gen times. If every survivor held that perk kill rates would go down and worthless killers would be forced to re evaluate how they play.
We already have perks that can pause and extend hook times to the point that survivors can do all the generators on the map and still have time to save the camped survivor. Yes, it would require every survivor to bring something but its possible and that alone means more perks would be redundant.
Camping is weak and extremely fruitless in MOST situations. It can be really brutal for poor or new survivors but its basically a non-issue to decent and prepared players. And that is a problem, don't get me wrong. We have a super high learning curve for new players on both sides that makes this game very unappealing in the early stages. Part of the issue is the skill disparity of some matches but that's the nature of the beast.
Just don't take it personal, its people playing how they think they have to. And I'd put some of that blame on content creators who proport the only way to win is to use those tactics. Sadly the them vs us mentality is getting even worse and a lot of people are fueling it on youtube and twitch and its really breaking us up more than ever.
Hoping the anniversary brings us a new game mode or something big so we can all have fun together for a while.
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How many actual basement Bubbas do you go against? I hardly see them and when I do they're pretty wholesome. No basement Bubba is doing it to be vindictive or even win for that matter. This argument is and always will be a silly one. I know it isn't always fun to be on the receiving end but it isn't very fun to be on the end of a syringe or a BNP team. Point is, we all deal with some BS, its basically a requirement in this game.
Go next.
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@Beatricks said:
Oh wow, yet another humblebrag thread about how good someone is, how original! Can you link your stream of 4k-ing 99 out of 100 matches with Wrath using no perks and addons? I want to learn from the gods themselves!
I'm not anything special friendo, I probably 3-4k about 3/4s of my games and my point is so do you and most other people. The annoying part is acting like losing 2 or 3 games out of 10 is indicative of your entire killer experience.
And this claim is mostly aimed at the content creators (which I'm not) in regard to their rhetoric about the state of killer. I've seen some people make claims that the game is wildly survivor sided now and that gens go to fast. Yet, I'll watch these same people sweep 4 or 5 games in a row and then then the next day they post a video about "the reason people are leaving killer" its plain silly.
Winning is great but that isn't as memorable as a hard loss, especially in games you never had a chance at winning. (4 swfs, bnps, Erie of crows, ect..) Makes you forget the last game pretty quickly.
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I thought they data mined this a while ago and found that theirs like a soft cap that most "decent" players can reach. Cause when they had a number that could go higher than the majority of players, it took like literal hours to find suitable matches for people. Isn't it safe to assume that most people that could consistently get to iri ranks in the old system are probably around the the soft cap? Like, its basically the old system hiding behind the title MMR.
I could be very wrong, I just always heard that was the case. So if we could see ranks, a lot of us would be maxed out and it would be kind of pointless. If that isn't true though and theirs enough diversity, I suppose it would be good to see it.
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My cuties
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Its a fun and silly idea but it somewhat defeats the point of benevolence if you personally get rewarded for it. At that point, you're basically doing it for yourself. For me, It's more impactful and appreciative when a killer does it at their own detriment, cause it proves they don't give a toss about about the 4k or anything else, they're just having fun. No real stakes or reason not to let the last survivor go either, it becomes fruitless and I think you'd get even more survivors that would be angry if a killer didn't let them have the hatch because you would for sure get plenty of killers that would deny it still. "Come on! It doesn't have any negative to your score!" flame ect.
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Camping isn't a problem. If someone camps someone to death then all the gens get done. Is it fair and fun for the the other player? Obviously not but trust me, the killer isn't having a great time either just sitting there. Which is why it doesn't really happen THAT much. Especially with reassurance now, survivors can literally do every gen and the person that is being camped could just barely be making it to struggle phase.
Camping at certain times or near a 99ed gen or something is an important and viable strategy, It punishes survivors for their positioning. Its all about how the teammates react that make it useful or not. I feel your pain though, face camping can be pretty lame.
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Pretty sure it was a flat rate as long as you kept the tempo correct, the way it is now should be technically more consistent and less intense on your keyboard. But I feel ya, its probably pretty jarring for someone after the old method for so long.
What are you trying to hide from your teammates that you don't want them to see?
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This isn't that deep people, the circles spinning here are kind of ridiculous. I did a speed read and it seems like you're all on the edge of giving ground to the others argument, you're just too prideful to admit fault on either side of the fence. Not addressing anyone cause all the quotes are cringey.
First off, camping one target on the hook is a very bad and fruitless strategy at the start of the game, especially now that we have perks that defend against it so well. You can knock out every gen and the person can barely be getting to struggle phase. Is it fun for that person, nope. But it doesn't reward the killer with anything other than a 1k or sometimes nothing. However, this does require teammates to be efficient and have anti camping perks and it also requires that the one getting camped doesn't struggle and die or just DC. So in most cases, its a pretty inferior strategy for killer and can be quite annoying and unfun for the the survivor but I wouldn't say the playstyle is problematic because it isn't efficient on its own to secure a win.
Tunneling however is way more efficient and consistent and almost impossible to combat in the solo Q. Tunneling needs a concise definition in an argument, way to many people have different opinions on what is and isn't tunneling. For instance, my definition for tunneling is chasing the same person right after they have been pulled off the hook, with the intention of downing them again so I can get them out of the game. However, if I hook someone and leave and down and hook another player, then I'm for sure going back to the first person I hooked because I know they had plenty of time to get saved but their teammates chose to pump out a gen instead. That isn't my fault, I left to find someone else. So When I get back and see you injured then I get to make the judgment call. Down you again and hook you, ignore you and look for the one that hooked you, or just down you for pressure so I can force someone out to come save you, but I also give you another chance to reset. Whatever I choose to do with you isn't tunneling, your teammates didn't prioritize you and gave me the chance to come back, I shouldn't have to turn a blind eye, I gave them ample time. You have to be punished if you prioritize your objective, that is how games work. Tunneling with the single intention to get 1 player out before gens pop is VERY strong though and does need to be made into a weaker option, I don't have an answer on that though.
Slugging is fine in my opinion, unless its done incessantly or excessively to annoy or deride someone. I slug for pressure a lot when I don't want to hook someone because I feel bad that I found them early or the game is going slower. Slugging can be annoying, especially when killers treat it like a win condition and try to end games at 5 or 4 gens but its still a pretty fair system that has a lot of risk and reward associated with it. Plus, slugging before the end of the game is the only way to counter Unbreakabill, otherwise you're basically just waiting until stuff gets bad enough to a certain point and you lose to a perk you had no chance of countering, which feels very bad and unfair. That's why I'm in favor of bring back old DS. If you can't get someone to use DS until EGC, that's your fault, not theirs.
A double standard does exist for the community in terms of effort a killer should be allowed to exert vs survivor. Especially as someone who plays the game with the fun of everyone in mind, you get a very big picture. I can only use my anecdotes from the last 4 years of playing but it happens consistently enough that I think its at least fair as evidence for the opinion. Their are some caveats though, namely the perspective that solo survivors have in a match. They see everything from their own POV, they aren't monitoring the big picture like the killer so it can be hard to determine if something was done in "fairness" or not. I'll list a couple things that highlight this, but in no way am I saying that this attitude doesn't happen with killers either, just that it is highly prevalent.
Body blocking with a third health state or dead hard on the first few hooks of the game- You could easily make the comparison to doing this akin to slugging or tunneling at 5 gens. Its an effort to stop the killer from completing their objective and requires you to do something that is not very fun for the killer.
Using toolboxes or Perks that complete generators faster than 90s at the start of the match- This is like exactly the same thing as "trying hard" or using cheap tactics. In context of the killer, you should wait until you're done with 2 or 3 gens before you do this. Though, that would usually be a better strategy anyways lol still, it applies.
Holding W to the corner of the map before you get downed to waste the killers time- Same as the others. A pretty efficient technique that could be used to waste a good amount of time. Wait until you're on your second hook or death hook to do that. Sounds pretty dumb, right?
We can do this all day, its clearly the same argument. Survivors have to concede that they are being redundant when they say its not the same and killers should agree that some techniques they employ are way to strong right now to be considered fair or sportsman against the solo Q. The important thing to remember is that each person can play however they want. We have one game mode that everyone shares and no real rules that anyone HAS to follow.
Fence sitting or not, everyone is right and wrong, that is how this silly game works. And yes, its silly, they nerfed Billys engravings while nurse exists and blights addons have hardly ever been touched. Tag with monsters and angry salty people! We're the same!!!
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382201#Comment_3382201
OG Freddy also had the disgusting part of the lore too, it was just more subtle and vague.
Yeah, its pretty much the same story. They toned it down a lot in the actual film but the context is there the entire time and even Wes said that much is the case. He wanted Freddy to be the "worst thing" he could think of. Robert England's Freddy is very much just as disgusting as Jackie Haley.
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I do recognize that stress is powerful and it is more than capable of causing these things but I just think its so weird that when I started out I wasn't nearly as good as I am today and I would get way more stressed out from it admittedly. Then I learned how to cut loops off and do some head games and yadda yadda red ranks blah blah and now I feel pretty capable in 90% of my matches. I never got headaches before buy it could be a subconscious thing like you're saying. Either way, I guess I will take a killer break. Thanks.
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I know how you feel but that isn't what I'm experiencing. The game doesn't bother me that much, win, lose, I just try to enjoy it. Sure, I get a bit frustrated now and then but its not an emotional response for me, it feels sensory.