FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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Self Care should just get buffed to 41% to be honest.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405721#Comment_3405721
Discordance is an info perk, not a gen defense perk.
My guy, It tells you what Gen they are working on. This is what Gen defence is. like Come on now.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405731#Comment_3405731
I just want regression to be strong enough that killers don't feel like they need to tunnel and camp to win. Those kind of games aren't fun for anyone.
That is commendable but we cannot balance the game based on a feeling of not wanting to kill that much.
Yeah, camping and tunneling isnt fun, I am myself working on some suggestions for bHVR to make those things a bit more fun, but until then its the game right now. We cannot have strong regression like that.
Discordance neither regresses gens, blocks gens, nor slows repair speed. Therefore it isn't gen defense. I stand by that definition.
I would argue that we absolutely can and should have strong gen defense even with how tunneling and camping currently are... IF and only if that gen defense doesn't function if you're engaging in those strategies.
We have perks like that. Pop and Ruin. They just suck. Buffing them, DS and OtR all in the same patch would go a long way towards a healthier, more fun DBD.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405696#Comment_3405696
Im sorry if you wanted perks to do all the work for you. But these are the options now.
I find it funny you say that but one of your suggestions was Deadlock that actually does do all the work for you.
I just want regression to be strong enough that killers don't feel like they need to tunnel and camp to win. Those kind of games aren't fun for anyone.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405696#Comment_3405696
New pain res can remove an entire gen if you split pressure (so in all technicality it adds a entire gen on its own) no way out also adds a gen basically and you can literally fufill it and pain res at the same time. Corrupt for killers with slow start up. Surge for down explosions to regress multiple gens at once. Thana with the new slow heals to force a lose-lose. Discordance to interrupt multiple survivors at once. Honestly you can make a case for a lot of perks.
New Pain Res is beyond inconsistent. Sure 25% total regression sounds good on paper, but what happens if you activate it when no gen has more than 5%? You just used 25% of your tokens for next to no gain. No thanks. I'll pass.
No Way Out isn't gen defense. It's a good perk but that's just... flat out not what it does.
Corrupt is still good but it isn't and never has been enough gen defense on its own.
Surge/Jolt has always been just kind of alright. The fact that it's now one of the best with only minor qol buffs is honestly pretty telling as to the overall state of gen defense.
Thana with its whole 2% slowdown per survivor unless you get all 4? Really? That is borderline useless on anyone not named Legion or Plague and it's a bit questionable on them.
Discordance is an info perk, not a gen defense perk.
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Unfortunately for you, the developers have nerfed most of the good gen regression perks leaving killers feeling like their only options to win is to tunnel or camp.
So... probably there's not much fun to be had.
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@Emeal said:
Since they don't have the "dead hard" the "healing" is worse, they will repair without looking back.
I mean, if only you had a perk that could stop that kind of strategy dead.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S8UMZ4VRWXA5/image.png
Oh they are still here.
Dead Man's Switch only really works for killers with high mobility or range.
Deadlock is on a licensed killer and has not appeared in the Shrine even once, making it not an option for a lot of players.
Grim Embrace has never been good.
The options you've put forward are not good options.
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You do realize that her power recovery is based on how much you use... right?
Use 1s, it recovers in 3s. Use all 5, it recovers in 15. A survivor predropping a pallet probably won't result in a 15s CD unless you tried to go around.
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Which killers? And what perks? If the killer had something giving them undetectable, then the visual TR not turning on is intended.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404452#Comment_3404452
I'll admit I didn't think of that hahaha !
I mean, I stand by it, but maybe with an added "Pentimento clause" XD
To be honest, that wasn't a criticism. Pentimento could use an activating perk that's not on a licensed killer.
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@HugTheHag said:
Shattered Hope is weird in that it is too situational to be a perk worth bringing, but it's too strong to be base kit.
I think the perk itself should be buffed to make it worth bringing even if it turns out there is no or few boons in the game, like making it be able to break dull totems to see the aura of another totem placement (making it a killer version of Counterforce) + bloodpoint score event for breaking dull totems, in Deviousness as you are outsmarting survivors by depleting their resources.
That way, it hard counters boons because anytime you go by a dull totem you can remove it as a possible boon location.
Shattered Hope + Pentimento, let's gooooooooo
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Yes it should be sort of. By default, Killers should be able to do a fast snuff or a 2-3 second break. Then Shattered Hope makes either practically instant and a bit more on top.
As it currently stands there's not enough base kit counter play around boons. Which means either they are beyond broken or worthless with no possibility of being in between.
Once permanent breaking is in place, we can go through and buff most of the boons. I have ideas for all of them too if you'd like to see.
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@pigslittlepet said:
Problem is this is how it used to be before coh. Those of us who were here will adapt and move on. For people who started after coh was added it's gonna be a hard crash back to reality. The perk held people's hand through low and mid tier mmr and now it's gone. Gonna be a rough transition back to normal for some people.
No it didn't. If you were willing to go a bit off meta.
Self Care wasn't garbage and SC and BK both made medkits more efficient. You could run those two perks and a Brown Medkit and get two fast self heals with infinite medium speed heals if you needed them.
6.1 made that not an option anymore with the Devs deleting 73% medkit efficiency off those two perks.
Edit: Hell... I ran that even after CoH's introduction because I am bad at finding totems.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404344#Comment_3404344
Those are not alternative. Those are just slowdowns.
Deadlock, no way out, jolt are still good.
Eruption with nowhere to hide is also good
Pain resonance is fine, but you can't just spam it whenever you can. You have to pay attention, I am lazy, so won't use it that much anymore.
CoB got nerfed into oblivion, but 3-gen was pain to deal with.
With medkits and CoH nerfed, hit&run is viable again, which is an alternative to tunneling.
They are alternatives. If you can buy back most the time you spent on a chase with Pop, then the need to turn the game into a 3v1 asap is much lower.
Yes... Deadlock... the one slowdown that keeps working no matter what you're doing... including tunneling and camping. That perk is suuuuuuuper healthy for the game.
Funnily enough, Eruption kinda encourages slugging now with when the Aura reading you get happens.
Pain Resonance got made to be wildly and horribly inconsistent. Some people will probably still run it but I can't imagine many will.
3 genning getting nerfed was probably a necessity. Stalling out a game for an hour isn't great. However they really should have made an effort to bring Pop back this patch.
Hit and run isn't viable. Thana is garbage for most killers and all the anti healing in the world won't do anything vs a team loaded with SB, Resilience, Prove Thyself, Adrenaline, and Tool boxes with maybe a Reassurance or two.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404325#Comment_3404325
So nothing really changed for killers?
They already liked to tunnel.
What changed is what's been changing ever since patch 6.1. That being all alternatives to tunneling are getting nerfed into the dirt.
Pop, Ruin, Thana, Eruption all heavily nerfed. Now Pain Res, Call of Brine, and Overcharge are as well. By my count, that's nearly every slowdown that rewards chases, spreading pressure, and 3 genning made irrelevant.
If they keep deleting killers' other options, nobody should be surprised when killers start playing even meaner.
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This patch is not good.
Blood web changes are good, I'll give it that.
Visual TR is almost good. It has a massive misstep with the handling of Sadako and Trickster lullabies.
The medkit changes are... fine I guess.
Don't play Hillbilly so can't comment on that.
New Dead Hard isn't anti tunnel. In fact it is countered by tunneling, camping, and slugging. Not exactly the best way to go with it.
Light burn going away is probably good.
However, something you didn't mention is that even more killer regression perks have gotten butchered... which means more killers are probably going to focus on murdering survivors asap. That along with DH changes... this patch is actively encouraging killers to tunnel, camp, and slug. Have fun with that I guess.
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@Valaryyn said:
I would rather they just disable the visual heart for lullabies since Trickster is also problematic.
Eh, they can't really do that since Huntress and Freddy do what they do.
Really neither Trickster nor Sadako should even have a lullaby.
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That's not a bug. The latest patch had a nerf/rework for CoH in it.
- Boon: Circle of Healing Any Survivors within the Boon Totem’s range gain a 50%/75%/100% healing speed bonus to healing others. Med-Kits do not stack with Boon: CoH. Injured Survivors have their Auras revealed to all other Survivors when inside the Boon Totem’s range.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3403782#Comment_3403782
It's not surprise so much as disappointment. I've been playing this game too long to be surprised by player behavior--doesn't really stop me from wanting more out of the community, tho.
I'm also not convinced anyone needs to camp & tunnel to win their games. It's just low hanging fruit.
Take the Bubba in my screenshot for example.. he hooked me with 5 gens left. I didn't even get a chase out of him, because Mikaela predropped 2 pallets and I was the lucky Survivor to learn he had Spirit Fury. 30 seconds into the game, and he was fed 2 pallets instantly with Spirit Fury. He did not need to camp me--Mikaela was willing to hand him perk value on a silver platter.
5 gens left when he hooked me, yet had just one survivor brought Reassurance, he would have lost with 1k. You can't tell me the devs are pushing killers to camp and tunnel when it is the worst strategy on paper. It only works because Survivors don't want to take the game seriously.
I can and I am claiming the Devs are pushing more killers to Tunnel and Camp.
Why? Because every patch since and including 6.1 has either directly or indirectly promoted it. Whether it is drastically weakening survivor defenses against it or butchering other options so they aren't options anymore... literally every patch has promoted it.
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It's a bad patch, which is unfortunate since the Bloodweb changes look fantastic.
This patch was the equivalent of Behavior mixing up a nice tall glass of vinegar, serving it to both sides and saying "Drink up or get lost". Not exactly anything to get excited over.
In addition to that, they succeeded in adding more rewards for tunneling and camping and less options for not doing that. So that'll not go over well either.
So overall... I give it a C- because it was very close to being so much worse.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
I've been tunneled in every single game.
Do Killers seriously not know how to create pressure without gen regression?
Edit: Not going to pretend like this couldnt have all happened before the update, but... tunneled 4 games, and camped a 5th. Probably the least fun I've had playing DBD in a long time.
Killers have two objectives. Keep gens from turning on and murder the survivors. The devs are actively making the former harder and the latter easier. Including a new big old juicy carrot for tunneling, camping, and slugging in the form of never needing to deal with Dead Hard ever again.
Why are you surprised that more killer players are picking up what the devs are putting down?
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I've never seen an idea crafted so perfectly to make nearly every killer bleed you out just out of spite.
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@Jangles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401537#Comment_3401537
I got the time, Lets deep dive.
- Trapper: Trapper can close entire rooms and stairways off with traps to secure hook states and completely cut off parts of the map.
- Wraith: Can stealth behind walls and doorways, Much easier to not get light burned. Large deadzones midgame which make hit and run viable
- Hillbilly: ehhh Billy kinda struggles on any indoor map. Though the long hallways can make things alot easier than say lerys
- Nurse: Nurse go brrrrrrrr
- Myers: Great map for his stronger builds and scratched mirror on any indoor map is fun
- Hag: Same as trapper, She excels on maps with Z levels where you can cordon off entire areas, Small hallways make it much easier to have your traps triggered.
- Doctor: Impossible skillcheck build, Static blast can hit nearly the entire map with the right add ons.
- Huntress: Long hallways, Mostly low loops, Transition areas are mostly windows.
- Bubba: Bubba is just mid on every map these days. Could use some love tbh
- Freddy: Never played him, Can't really comment on it. Though i'd say being able to teleport upstairs on a whim is easier than having to walk up the stairs
- Pig: Stealth killers excel on indoor maps, being able to sneak up to someone basically right next to a door is much easier than say ormond.
- Clown: Transition areas are very narrow making bottles much easier to land than other maps. You can also predict where they're going to go based on the layout making bottles much more viable than other maps.
- Spirit: Long hallways make prediction much simpler.
- Legion: Never played them, Can't really comment
- Plague: Long hallways, Low loops, Condensed areas of fountains
- Ghosty: Indoor map, I love this and lerys on ghostface. Being able to sneak up on people makes his power so much better.
- Demogorgan: I can't really say much, I don;t play him alot. I feel like being able to teleport between z levels gives his secondary the same kind of viability as freddy
- Oni: Long hallways, flickable transition loops. The only downside is the window transitions but if you can predict them you can make the window and hit the survivor in your power before they make the loop.
- Deathslinger: Best map for iri coin.
- Pyramid head: Window transitions, straight paths between pallets and transitions
- Blight: My mans running the hallways like a naughty schoolboy I've also seen some crazy hug techs pulled off there. I can't do it myself though lol
- Twins: Being able to completely cordon off areas. Dowsey gives a really good demonstration as to why twins is strong here.
- Trickster: I can't really comment. I feel like this is a bad map for trickster.
- Nemesis: His zombies excel on indoor maps. Running around a corner being mugged by susan is interesting to say the least. I'd also say that how the pallet set ups work make his power easier than other maps to hit.
- Cenobite: Being able to teleport Z levels, your power excels in tight areas.
- Artist: This map is bad for artist as far as im concerned.
- Sadako: Using the yellow rag add on you can make the entire map blind with TV placements.
- Wesker: Long hallways, Window transitions high travel to return. Means you can vault with the survivor and be on them before they can get back to the window.
- Knight: His power on this map is just obnoxious.
- Snore Merchant: Again, Your power being able to cover two floors is just obnoxious. If you put your power at the top of the stairs survivors will be nearly exposed before they get to the drone.
I can actually comment on Legion. It's not their worst map by any stretch, but it's not good either. Getting value out of Frenzy on the map is incredibly difficult because it is sort of larger than it's raw square footage. If you start a Frenzy on the bottom floor and someone is on the 2nd, you can't chain to them. But you can hear them on KI so it's easy to bait yourself into going for Frenzy chains you can't actually get.
Obviously it isn't as bad as the survivor sided maps, but it isn't a good Legion map.
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Anyway, my nomination is what I call Off Brand Scratched Mirror Myers.
Addons: Boyfriend's Memo. Then one of the jewelry or Glass Fragment.
Perks: Surveillance, Oppression, A Nurses Calling, Sloppy Butcher.
Basically the goal of this build is to mimic the effects of having Scratched Mirror equipped without actually having it equipped. Partially because then you aren't burning a purple add on and probably a map offering every game and partially for the flexibility of being able to react to games/maps where being the sneakiest sneak stops working.
Essentially you just are playing hit and run Myers without leaving Tier 1 until you feel like you absolutely must have the extra lethality of Tier 2 and 3.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400398#Comment_3400398
Has monitor be changed to just give undetectable because it is still shown as reducing your actual TR on the official wiki
You misunderstood.
Teir 1 Myers is undetectable permanently. He hasn't got a terror radius that needs reducing. That makes M&A a dead perk on Scratched Mirror Myers. It is useful on Vanity Mirror Myers, but that's a whole other ball of wax.
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Reads thread title.
"Nurse. Easy. No contest."
Reads second paragraph.
"Well played."
I'm going with Demo just because his teleport is the most flexible. Depending on how you use it and the add ons you bring, you can use it for info, slowdown, and stealth in addition to just mobility.
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Of those perks, Tinkerer.
Of everything they've broke... Self Care. I liked that perk. Didn't think is was OP... just comfy... and they murdered it because apparently a lot of other people agreed with me that it was a nice comfy perk.
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Blocking a survivor with the intent to down them with a power with a charge up time is not reportable.
I even had one time where I blocked in a survivor and farmed Myers Tier 3 on them. Didn't feel bad about it.
It's only reportable if you block them in with no intent to hit/down/kill with egc. If you are blocking them just to stop them from playing the game with no intent to advance your objectives, then it's not OK.
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You realize boons do the same thing, right?
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It's sweat lord sided.
Regardless of side, if you bring the strongest stuff you can and the other side doesn't, you'll almost certainly win.
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@blackfoxx_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396600#Comment_3396600
I agree. DH is pretty much only useful if you aren't tunneled, which is weird since the devs seem to be marketing the changes as "anti-tunnel". Now, its basically a perk that can only be used only twice to extend chases.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396640#Comment_3396640
I agree with this as well, why not just use OTR and SB? Any other exhaustion perk can be used very often, especially with Vigil. DH is the only exhaustion perk that now has a finite number of uses. At this point, should DH even be an exhaustion perk?
Not all perks that activate when you get unhooked are anti tunnel. Renewal and Resurgence are countered by tunneling after all.
And yes. Dead Hard should 1000% still be an exhaustion perk after its nerf.
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Are you talking about tunneling, camping, and slugging? If so, I'm not surprised. They've nuked all the incentives killers had to not do that and most of the survivor defenses against those behaviors as well.
Also they're about to make it even worse.
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My pick for "I'm super salty and am going to make people suffer." is Pyramid Head. Caging bypasses so much stuff, and the fact that his wave doesn't stop on hit can make body blocking a non issue. Just line it up and hit both people.
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Welcome to DBD where the balancing is done via spreadsheet and the focus is to ruin anything that is meta.
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This is part of why I want the devs to slide the permanent broken effect from No Mither to Dead Hard. One of David's perks is strong enough for that downside and it isn't No Mither.
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Survivor hate: I personally don't. I'd guess it is because of how fast he's capable of downing people.
Killer hate: I personally used to love him. Then they made him better where he was already good and worse where he was already bad. I didn't play Huntress anymore because the map decided if I was going to get to have fun, and Trickster was getting thrown in that boat so I stopped playing him.
Comparisons to Huntress: This is pretty obvious... yeah? 4.4 killer with projectile attacks who reload at lockers and have lullabies? They're very similar, so of course they'll be compared.
What would I change: Make it so his meme add on memento blades basically reverted his kit to how it was at launch. Except the Main Event changes he got.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397132#Comment_3397132
Well, yes, if you shift the goalposts from "there's no slowdown left" to "there's no gen slowdown specifically for players who don't have very many DLCs", the situation is worse, but that's not the argument I was initially responding to or making.
Still though... we've got...
Jolt, but only for M1 killers.
Corrupt Intervention arguably for only setup killers.
Deadlock.
Eruption if you can get over the Aura reading coming at an awkward time.
Plaything + Pentimento.
That's not a long list. We had way more options before 6.1 happened.
Edit: I already held the opinion that Pop needs to be brought back, but this discussion has made it so much more obvious that that is the case.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397106#Comment_3397106
A quick and contextless list would include Deadlock, Eruption, Jolt, Corrupt Intervention, Sloppy Butcher, Plaything + Pentimento (or I guess any Penti build but Plaything is the best for it), and Dead Man's Switch. Plus, not quite slowdown but still relevant, all the endgame perks are as good now as they were before.
As I said above, which of those (+ which other options) are going to be best will now depend far more on which killer you're playing and how you intend to use them, but that's not a bad thing and it doesn't mean there aren't any options.
Sloppy Butcher isn't gen slowdown. It is slowdown and a good perk, but unless you can somehow force survivors to heal, it'll do nothing.
I did forget about Corrupt, but let’s be honest, unless you're playing as a setup killer, it's nerf in 6.1 made it a much less attractive perk.
Dead Man's Switch has no business being on your list. A max of 30s block that you ( basically) have to manually trigger is not good. I guess maybe it'll be viable for a camping Artist.
Also this is ignoring the fact that two of Cenobite's perks are on your list and they've nearly never been in the shrine (Plaything once, Deadlock never) so those aren't actually an option for a good chunk of the community which also kills Pentimento because it doesn't really work without Plaything. Same story for Eruption actually.
So... arguably just Jolt with Corrupt for Trapper, Hag, Demo, and SM. And Jolt isn't strong enough to be your only slowdown... and... it only works on M1's.
Huh. A killer player who hasn't paid real money for DLC and likes M2 killers really has no options for gen defense. That's a mixture of funny and pathetic.
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@jesterkind said:
The obnoxious and ridiculous gen-kick build was far from the only valuable slowdown. Pain Res being nerfed is more of a hit, but if you're a moderately decent killer player there's plenty of perks you can use to make openings for natural pressure.
What you bring is going to depend on your killer and playstyle more now, there's not really anything every killer can use equally well (except maybe Deadlock, that's pretty universal), but that doesn't mean there aren't options.
I am wondering which gen slowdown perks exactly you think are still good.
Ruin isn't really worth the risk anymore since 100% regression is very little. Pop got hurt a ton when it got switched to current progress. Thana is garbage for anyone not named Legion or Plague. Overcharge and Call of Brine are getting heavily nerfed to the point that CoB is almost not a regression perk anymore. Oppression's CD is a bit too long. Dead Man's Switch isn't very good. Dying Light has basically always been a joke. Pain Res got heavily nerfed.
The closest thing we've got to viable gen defense is Jolt, Deadlock, and the now rather awkward version of Eruption.
And... I suppose one could pair Jolt, Eruption, Knock out, and Sloppy to make a nasty slugging build... but do we want killers playing that way? I don't think we do.
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Yes, DbD should have an FoV slider and rework Shadowborn. It's dumb that they haven't done that yet.
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So funny thing. I finally realized why Self Care got butchered during the 6.1 patch.
It's because the -15% gen stacking penalty exists.
Because of that, it was actually more overall efficient to heal yourself with Self Care then joining the gen as opposed to the other survivor healing you then both hopping on the gen. To the tune of saving 4.8 charges. Which is honestly a lot higher than you'd think.
So... Behavior slapped it with a -15% nerf.
Problem is that DbD math is weird. That nerf actually flip flopped it. So now if you compare those two situations, Self Care now loses those same 4.8 charges which makes it absolutely terrible.
What they should have done and should do asap is set SC to 41% because that happens to be the spot where SC then double up and Altruistic Heal then double is closest in efficiency. Less than 0.15 charges different.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394929#Comment_3394929
And I want killers to be no quicker then 105%. Is it unreasonable? Sure it is. So is your proposition.
Anyway it's besides the point. DH usage will steeply go down over next month. Ppl will soon start to complain about sprint burst anyway
Not if you do it right. Like say give it No Mither's no blood and 75% quieter while injured. Then make it more consistent by making the endurance MoM's super endurance (but still cause deep wound), lasts 0.75s, and if you aren't deep wounded after that 0.75s, you gain a 50% haste effect for 1s.
Also your counter "proposal" is not even in remotely the same country. At worst my suggestion would ruin a single perk. Yours would ruin the entire game.
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Yes. This should be an obvious thing to do, but it's harder than just nerfing the top.
Occasionally nerfing or reworking the top is necessary like in the case of release MoM, release Undying, and release CoH. But that should be the tool of last resort or for new stuff that came out just... way too strong.
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That's why I want the Permanent Broken downside to move from No Mither to Dead Hard.
Now it announces its presence, and it being uncounterable sometimes is much less frustrating and game warping because DH isn't a 3rd health state... it's their 2nd.
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Your first mistake was thinking that DH was an anti tunneling perk.
It's not. Anti tunnel perks usually have a maximum time limit on their use and deactivate themselves on doing a conspicuous action. Dead Hard doesn't have either of those stipulations.
It'll function exactly as it does on live except that it won't be available during your first chase.
The reason it is still an exhaustion perk is so Survivors can't have both Dead Hard's 3rd health state and Sprint Burst because that'd be broken.
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Lot of good suggestions so far.
To add my own, pressure is just a fancy way of saying "Doing stuff that causes as many survivors as possible to not be on gens." In that light, if there's ever two Survivors in one spot, that's where you want to be. Doesn't matter if it is a gen, a heal, or an unhook, if you can manage to show up you'll have 2 survivors running from you instead of just 1. Another good tactic if you can pull it off is to steer chases towards gens. Especially gens you know are getting worked on. If you can stop somebody else's gen progress for 10s while the chase barrels through where the Gen is, that's great for you.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394652#Comment_3394652
Right, sleepy-brain got me thinking fuzzy on that post and likely meshing it with Corrupt.
So I agree that the Perk itself isn't horrible, from a time-efficiency standpoint (though I don't like it for other reasons as well).
But what isn't good design is that it is the meta pick, and not just a step down for the personal preference of simplicity.
A passive stall perk like that being meta is either overtuned in comparison to other Perks, or there is an issue with the core gameplay loop negatively impacting other perks that would otherwise be statistically better when used decently.
You say other Perks suffer from not being able to get a Survivor at the start, but why does 50 seconds of 4 Survivors not being in chase impact these Perks so much?
I have an example for your ending question.
Say I have Pop Goes the Weasel equipped. Match loads. I find someone decently quickly. Chase is rough because it's the beginning of the match and all pallets are available. Eventually I down and hook the survivor. DING! DING! DING! Three different generators are now finished repairing. I have a Pop charge ready to go, but zero good targets for it. Geez, wish I had the perk that could prevent that from happening instead of Pop.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AC83HG8TT7Z8/image.png
I was going for the four Undetectable hits while Tinkerer was equipped challenge and ran into this Mitherite running a Broken Key and these add ons. Qua?
I see what he was going for... but all of it was undone by picking 1 wrong addon. So sad.
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394802#Comment_3394802
Nope, not the response type I'm looking for. If you did not understand, I'm not looking for a bunch of arguments why you do not believe the facts. ALL sites which tract the game's results show killers routinely get the most points and less than half the time a survivor escapes. Those are facts. You can ignore them in your own head, but facts be facts. The discussion is what ideas which are routinely ignored but continuously come up would you like to see in the game. I gave two examples. Looking for more.
The point discrepancy is not the result of game imbalance but is instead a questionable design decision to make the survival category very difficult to get points in. The devs probably should fix that eventually, but it isn't urgent and isn't a game balance problem.
As for the kill rate discrepancy, there's a very simple explanation there too. It's real difficult to get a 4E. Even if the killer is having a bad game, it isn't too difficult for them to camp somebody in end game and get at least 1 person. Sometimes more if the survivors attempt the 4E and mess it up. A 4k on the other hand doesn't have that extra difficulty bump. Due to that fact alone, a 50% escape rate would actually be very survivor sided despite that not making sense on the surface.
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Logically speaking it should work that way.
A skill check represents something very wrong happening with the repair process. If you don't take steps to fix it right now, boom. You took your hands off the Gen, so why would you be able to do the thing to prevent the explosion? Survivors don't have telekinesis.
Honestly Overcharge should *also* work that way. It's kind of silly that a killer perk that looks like it should be anti gen tapping gives the Survivor temporary telekinesis to bypass that aspect of it.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O7I3JPAHR8XV/image.png
Here's me pouring one out for Pop. It was unfairly destroyed and it was a good risk/reward perk that encouraged the killer to chase. You got good value for the perk and that's why nobody uses the current version (or eruption).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393775#Comment_3393775
-"They're complaining because it isn't a big win for killers anymore."
Let's look at the big picture since the 6.1 patch.
-What got better for killer: you get 2 stacks of STBFL.
-What got better for survivor: You get free base kit tunnel protection with BT (to the point where BT is a dead perk that nobody takes). This free +10 seconds of protection gives more time than the +10 seconds required to finish a generator.
What killer perks have been obliterated? Pop, Ruin, PR, and Eruption are all effectively deleted.
What survivor perks got obliterated? Iron Will+ Spine Chill.
What survivor perks got nerfed but are still usable in certain situations : DH, DS, CoH,
Medkits will be nerfed but toolboxes are still OP (looking at you hyperfocus).
The meta shift overall deleted instant regression from killer. So now regression is kicking generators. This meta encourages camping and 3 gen tactics.
Just as a reminder: Pop encouraged chases and so did Eruption.
Eruption could have been changed so that when it went off it made generators regress for ~35 seconds and nobody would be able to interrupt them during that time. That would have been fair AND encourage the killer to have the safety to commit to a chase.
Pretty much this. However I don't think we're heading to a 3 gen meta because Call of Brine and Overcharge are also getting heavily nerfed and base regression isn't enough on its own.
Honestly I think Behavior has us on a path to a meta where killers make no attempt to defend gens at all. I don't know if this patch will quite get us there but it is taking us closer.