ElusivePukka
ElusivePukka
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Nurse. No other killer is 'unbalanced' although some are 'unfun' to either play or play against for some people.
Nurse just ignores how the game works, though.
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It's just a traversal method, like Billy's nerfed chainsaw - though a couple addons can change that.
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This is a series of both good and lukewarm takes - one wishes a lot of it were just common sense, and yet..
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"Delete this" and "nerf this" just aren't viable ways of fixing issues of game balance in 99% of cases. Buffs, reworks, and rebalancing is important, but the carrot is usually better than the stick.
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@lufia22 said:
I never said there aren't hackers. I'm saying statements like "If I keep crossplay on, it's hackers non stop" are blatantly false.
You understand that 300 hours is a. nothing and b. probably not enough to have you experience the higher tiers of play, right?
I get a hacker a day, on average, there's streamers getting hackers (if a bit clustered) every other game live on Twitch, there's droves of videos discussing and detailing the rampant issue - your experience is your experience, and I'm glad you've not been experiencing blatant hackers. Your experience is not, however, necessarily representative of the experience of others, and your opinion/perspective is a subjective one.
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@lufia22 said:
When are you guys going to accept that it's not hackers, you just got outplayed? Currently at over 300 hours on PC and never seen an obvious hacker. Certainly not this hackfest you claim.
It's always funny to see the inexperienced get haughty.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724661#Comment_2724661
In the least aggressive way possible, I want you to know that their behavior is less childish than you calling them babies for handling emotions in a way in which you are unfamiliar or distant to.
You're chosing to be short-sighted and accept the reality of "they're childish," instead of acknowledging that there is a complex process of thoughts & emotions happening on the other side of your monitor.
No one is beholden to you or the game they are playing. We all volunteer our own time to play DBD, and a person can decide at any moment that it is not worth their time to keep playing.
You're on the forums mocking strangers for deciding they have better things to do with their time.
I don't know mate, maybe you should take a page out of their book.
Yeah, no. That's not how "childishness" works: throwing a tantrum is intrinsically more childish than acknowledging the silly and immature way certain people react to stress under certain circumstances. However, there's no real need for either to be "more" of anything - each reason you gave is inherently and individually childish, including the pity hatch one, regardless of how others treat them.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302581/how-i-feel-about-every-killer-currently
I agree with most of these, aside from feeling like Nurse needs a nerf, now. She can get nerfed in the future where more than 3 Killers can compete with SWF's, but until then, Nurse needs to remain like this imo. I see you want a Resident Evil chapter redo, well, may I interest you in my biggest concept yet, a Resident Evil Chapter Rework! Jazz Hands! It's not finished yet, but it's close, here it is: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1spM7TF3qQ4si4Kwzz4qgpRExooAiKPZejrrb2NDBT7A/edit?usp=drivesdk
I don't think it's possible for BHVR to make other killers viable for as long as Nurse exists in the state she is: most killers are actually fine, it's some fundamental aspects of the base game that need to change in order to compensate for MMR differentials and SWFs
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724708#Comment_2724708
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724710#Comment_2724710
Could of sworn they fixed that like 2 years ago, they probably just messed it up again.
They probably did - I thought it was gone, too, but while I was messing with my own rig I got the stain clipping (was unable to fix it for about a week) and I've seen it on a friend's vods
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724703#Comment_2724703
This used to be a thing, it isn't anymore
I can promise you it's still a thing on both bugged out consoles and certain PC rigs
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A tip for either side when they're learning: learn to flex your expectations. Don't go for the 'win' the game sets for you, pick out a personal challenge, make an entire build for it, and let that be a win for you - then do it all again in the next game.
Individually hone certain aspects of the game: a Breakout Sabo build, a CoH medstation build, a Lithe chase build, a CF/SG totem hunter build, all without expecting escape. It'll help cement some instincts that can carry you through the possibility that you've hit the MMR death spiral.
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Just give the killer a notification when they get a thumbs up and delete endgame chat for killers.
Makes that option actually do something, and probably half of the toxicity in the game gets much less impactful.
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We were told in the interview that we're getting something more based on the books than the films, and we're thus dealing with "smallpox Sadoko" rather than Samara from the English bastardizations.
I think various interactions with things in the trials ought to 'tier up' Samara - an inbuilt thing similar to Fire Up and progressive potential for 'infection' which starts to mess with survivor controls.
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Have fun in another game and/or community that values you and your time. May you escape this hell
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GF can stalk/expose multiple survivors at a time, Shape cannot despite the stalk aura saying otherwise but T3 hits everyone equally.
GF is better at unpredictable snowballs, Shape is better at consistency.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721123#Comment_2721123
Yeah yeah true. My bad.
I know you know, it's just that OP doesn't :P
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Two major factors: the state of the game and developmental 'vision' is causing some killers to quit/switch, and time of day can heavily influence when people are playing with friends or alone, e.g. SWF or killer.
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@GannTM said:
They're very complicated but NFTs are non-fungible tokens which basically in the best way I can explain, are artwork that you can purchase and claim you own while other can still use it or something to that standard. Pretty much, NFTs rely on cryptocurrency that takes up a bunch of energy to make that it is detrimental to the health of the environment. It pretty much has no benefits to combat the gigantic downsides they have.
Slight correction: NFTs are not the art itself, but a receipt of transaction. It's tantamount to the "I gave money to this charity" stickers that restaurants and chain stores will often give out when asking for a dollar at checkout.
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"It doesn't matter that you were chasing someone to an unsafe unhook and they dead harded through me: you still tunneled, get good or delete yourself."
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720864#Comment_2720864
Idk what cod or Tekken games you are playing but you are almost never playing on equal footing as you call it their is always someone better then you that's exactly why you lose because they were better then you
I wouldnt call getting outskilled equal footing again idk what games your playing but there's game modes in cod where when you die you don't respawn and in Tekken when you lose you just lose you can't undo your loss
Survivors doing their objective is playing against the killer that's the whole point of the game
Let me rephrase it in a way that makes sense
League of legends is a popular team based game often due to good team mates or bad team mates you either ######### on the enemy team or they destroy you guys throughout the game nobody elses fun is ever considered not the enemy team or even your own team mates and you can still be trashed or carried by team mates just like solo q in dbd
Yet you don't see people complaining about the other sides fun
CoD's progression system is a better comparison to DBD, but in Tekken if you 'lose' it's specifically because you got outplayed: the 'even footing' is that both sides have access to the same arsenal. Same goes (for the most part) in CoD - you really can't keep comparing symmetrical games to asymmetrical ones and pretending you have a point.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720959#Comment_2720959
The queue being long is caused by the toxic mindset toward killers lol I haven't touched killer since the first few days of Artist. Why? I am sick of survivors being toxic because I dare to win rather than just let them win. Maybe your queues will shorten when the toxic mindset this thread is about starts to go away. But it seems the people who have that mindset refuse to drop it. Buff killers, stop being toxic if they try to win, and maybe you won't have a 20 minute queue after the killer tunnels you out because he feels it's the only way he can win due to gens being done in under 4 minutes.
I'm a killer main, and I agree that the game is horrendous towards mid-high tiers of killer play.
Fact remains, though, it's just a bunch of self-fulfilling cycles of abuse, and neither side is innocent as long as they aren't recognizing their own negative impact.
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The two perks combined aren't 'evil on Pinhead'.
They're evil against low-mid tier survivors.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720973#Comment_2720973
Thats a healthy mindset, yet I have never, ever once experienced, that in a game, where the survivors were dominating, they left the last person to die on hook. Once the 5th gen is popped, one will go to 99% the gate, while the other two go for the unhook, and with BT and bodyblocking, there is next to nothing the killer can do, to at least secure 1K. You feel like a hare, circled by vultures.
Before MMR, I used to give my life for killers who played well or seemed like they needed a boost.
As a killer main, I view upping MMR as a punishment, though: I pretty quickly stopped sacrificing myself because I don't want killers to be forced to sweat just to participate.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721012#Comment_2721012
If it were the heart of the game, it would be balanced around SWF. They are constantly adding new features, perks, balances changes, and killer nerfs based on solo performance.
It's like I said: you cannot successfully balance Solo and SWF in the same breath. The Devs refuse to make a buff to solos that SWF does not benefit from. So every attempt to bring solo up just makes SWF even better, widening the gap. The CORRECT answer would be separate queues, but they don't want to slow down queue times. Hence: bot killers for SWF. Killer players would be able to queue for either, but if SWF gets bot killers that scale in difficulty based on MMR, you can split the queues without affecting wait times.
Your logic is based on BHVR being competent. They're not.
SWF and streamability are the heart and breath of this game. Without both, DBD would easily join the other failed games in this niche - BHVR refuses to properly acknowledge the advantages of exploits in geometry or graphical settings, they're definitely not going to 'address' the elephant in the room of SWF being so advantageous; people playing with their friends is their primary means of coordinating, retaining, and gaining new players.
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@BubbaDredge said:
The problem is, the rules specifically allow facecamping.
Like I said in the other thread: The devs (and what seems like the majority of the playerbase) are fine with proxy/soft camping, but facecamping has been specifically called out by design and development teams as something BHVR wants to discourage and remove.
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Executioner and Cenobite, on release, were the most balanced killers of their respective eras, even including their addons.
Demogorgon is currently the most balanced - but not super fun for either side if you and your opponents are decent - it ends up feeling grim.
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@Adjatha said:
The game needs to be easier for new players and harder for pro players. There are two solutions:
- Flesh out killer bots and make SWF a Bot-only format, where numbers can be tweaked up or down according to the team's average MMR. Then, the core game of 4 solo vs 1 killer can be balanced correctly and MMR will stop being such a wild swing back and forth.
- Make each survivor's skill checks easier or harder based on their MMR. If you're a new player, it should be easy to get Great skill checks. If you're a pro player, it should be difficult to even just get Good skill checks. This way, newbie survivors finish gens faster and don't give away their location to the killer by botching checks. And pro players actually DO risk botching checks constantly, slowing down the gen rush with passive regression.
I like option 2. Option 1 just reads as salt from someone denying the reality that SWF is the heart of the game.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720949#Comment_2720949
Good idea I like it but I would like to ad some tweaks.
Relocation can't happen if: other survivors are in x meter range the killer should have the right to defend a hook and survs can't abuse leading the chase around the hook.
The hook the survivor gets relocate to can't be near a gate so legitimately camping in egc isn't just gone.
OH and I think 3.5 sec is a good time but if I have to kick a Gen or totem pallet etc the timer should reset when I do cause that's not camping in my mind
I agree. An inverse camaraderie mechanic is ideal.
However, I think the range and timer cover potential abuse despite this: like I said, this mechanic is in the game, and thus far the (tweaked since release) numbers aren't super abusable. Having both isn't overkill, though, so I like your tweak.
Maybe "can't relocate near a survivor" is a good one too. Theoretically exploitable, but guaranteeing survivor time investment so probably worth it on the killer end.
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@BubbaDredge said:
"How do we fix this action that's specifically allowed in the game?"
The devs (and what seems like the majority of the playerbase) are fine with proxy/soft camping, but facecamping has been specifically called out by design and development teams as something BHVR wants to discourage and remove.
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If it's such a problem, open the door yourself.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720938#Comment_2720938
Oh heavens not 2 whole minutes on the hook! Can I start hating console players now for making me wait 2 minutes at the loading screen while their ancient console loads? Many PVP games have you dying early, eliminated, no respawn, and that's that. This is the only one where people expect hand holding, probably because they don't actually want a PVP game but a co-op experience with their friends vs an AI.
"I have to spend like a minute on the hook before I can go to my next game so it's bad if the killer tries to win."
At least be accurate when being pithy.
"I have to spend two minutes on the hook before I can go to my next [2-15 minute queue for a game which seems a 50/50 shot at being another camp session] so it's bad if the killer tries [a logistically bad tactic that's only successful if my teammates play poorly]"
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Better fix: make hooks use the same mechanic Pyramid Head's cages do.
- Relocation Trigger radius: 5 metres
- This refers to the radius within which The [Killer] must remain of a [Hook] to trigger the Relocation mechanic.
- Relocation Trigger timer: 3.5 seconds
- This refers to how long The [Killer] must remain within the Relocation Trigger radius for the [Hook] to relocate to another part of the Trial Grounds.
- Relocation "Hook Stage" Cool-down: 10 seconds
- This refers to how long the game pauses the Entity Progression on a [hooked ]Survivor after their [Hook] relocates.
The mechanics are already in the game, and there's more hook locations per tile than are currently used per trial. Just copy/paste/polish/print
- Relocation Trigger radius: 5 metres
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720837#Comment_2720837
Again, if you smurf and "cheat" the system, you are disguising that issue.
We want it to be fixed, right? BHVR loves to go off of data, so show them that the system is dumb.
There's no realistic way to show BHVR that the system is dumb, because while they love going off data they've proven time and again that no one in any of their departments (of the largest game company in Canada) has any clue how to collate, sort, extrapolate from, or suffer the basics of reading comprehension regarding their data. It's been pretty consistent that twitter drama has more of a real effect than in-game protests or coordinated actions.
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It's a good map. Tey just should have made it square rather than rectangular. Same area, different dimensions: I think it had the potential to be the most balanced map so far save Stage 2 Gideon's, before the pallet invasion.
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I'm usually down for a dance battle, and Bubba can have some nice moves if the player knows how his animations work.
Plus, he's getting denied the hook, not the kill. You did fine by securing some extra BP for yourself.
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BHVR hasn't done anything. You're just lucky.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720360#Comment_2720360
Tbf asides from that metaphor he has a fair point
I mean think about it for a second this is the only pvp game where the other sides fun is ever considered and I find that odd
In call of duty when I get shot the other guy isn't thinking damn I ruined that guys fun
In Tekken when I'm stomping someone and stealing their rank I'm not considering the other guys fun just like he's not considering mine
So it begs the question why is this game different?
In CoD and Tekken you're both fighting from ostensibly even footing and equal loss potential - if you "lose" you can also pick yourself up and hope for a comeback, and all while just doing your objective.
Survivors doing their objective aren't fighting the killer, unlike similar games like White Noise, F13, The Hidden, VHS, et al. Games like DBD or Propnight are objective-based on one side, PVP on the other, which creates an inherently asymmetrical playspace but also mindset for the game by introducing both types of play. Objective-based games trend toward consideration of both sides, as they're usually a metaphorical tug-of-war: even if you're denying the other side, you have to consider the other side's 'board state'.
The vacuum of skill on the objective-based part of the game (mindless M1 and hooks) on both sides created a chase meta that wasn't intended when DBD was released - this was supposed to be a stealth objective game, and now it's an action slasher hybrid. These hybrid gameplay setups are why the game is different, both in mentality and survivability compared to a lot of its peers.
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@Pulsar said:
I win, it just isn't fun.
It's a lose-lose scenario. You either smurf and get fun games for yourself (like you suggest) but you also ruin games for other people. However, if you stay at your "correct" rank, you get more unfun matches but you don't ruin other people's games.
Get a low-tier killer you enjoy and "smurf" if you want to call it that, but memeing in the basement and playing hide-and-seek as the stealthy bois can be fun, relaxing, and if you're not a tool you can ensure that both sides get points, pips, and satisfaction.
MMR as implemented in DBD (half-assed and missing key components) isn't a good system. That doesn't mean it has to suck. It just means grade-ups aren't coming from my mains.
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I'm a killer main, and they're right. You don't need a 4k. You don't need anything in the game.
Needs and wants are separate, and thinking otherwise is literally entitlement.
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Here's one that's really unpopular: nerfs are the dumbest "idea" anyone can ever bring to the game design table. It is always a better idea to try to buff other things to compensate and balance any reductions from a place where all sides are strong.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
Whoever says X role is braindead either never plays the role they're trashing or has an absolutely bizarro vendetta.
I'm glad you're branching out.
You're right. Both roles are braindead - the whole game is, or it's at least trying to induce that in players :P
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It doesn't get punished, because survivors feel secure making unsafe unhooks.
In theory, camping should not be effective. It's entirely on the survivor team to see that bear fruit, though.
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Anyone who's saying they think slinger should be nerfed is either disingenuous or extremely ill formed in their data collation and perception.
However, yeah, he can still be fun. I have my Iron Grit Agitation build and it's pretty fun even if I lose.
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@Edilibs said:
What exactly raises your MMR? Does anyone know?
Is there any way to measure it at all?
Why would the devs put something like this in the game?
Why dont they just take it out and go back to match making via ranks?
Base MMR for a killer without previous data is currently said to start at 1100, though you can lower it further, and the soft cap is 1900 although you can go higher despite matchmaking locking at 1900. Killer players with a high MMR killer who start a new killer will have that new killer's base MMR raised to just below their highest MMR killer.
The killer has the opportunity for 4 MMR raises/losses per game, 1 per survivor, with the value of that change (thought to be a low number regardless) being dependent on whether the survivor has a higher or lower MMR than you.
Lastly, each killer's individual MMR can reset to just below your top MMR killer if you spend enough time not playing them.
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SWF comms essentially doubles the perk capability of a survivor team capable of capitalizing on that information, by mirroring most info perks in the game, making their loadout effectively 32 perks to the killer's 4. Yeah, it sucks, and killers/SoloQ should both be buffed to compensate.
I disagree that it "ruins" anything, or that it takes the skill out of an intrinsically low-skill game, though. Most teams can't or won't manage to capitalize perfectly on that info. I think the steady changes in Cote's mission from creating a stealth horror game to an action objective game have hurt the 'suspense' far more than anything else, and I think BHVR continuing to bill this as a horror game is deceptive advertisement.
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@FFirebrandd said:
Legion is a fun and well-designed Killer who's power... while slightly more limited in scope than some, does what it is supposed to do very well. They do not need any kind of massive overhaul. At most they could use some minor buffs and QoL.
Related: Most people sorely underestimate Legion and run bad perk setups for them.
A lot of "low-tier" killers are only low-tier because people don't want to adjust. A lot of those "low-tier" killers do, however, frequently perform better than they might otherwise because the survivors also don't respect them enough.
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If only to see how he gets bungled.
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I slightly disagree.
I think the totems should spawn away from both killer and survivor, and I think totems should be generated after player spawn generation.
The first point is because it would be easy for survivors to predict totem spawns based on killer location in early game if it simply spawned near them, and the second is a method of guaranteeing some distance from both sides.
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I face Bubba, Blight, Nurse, Spirit, Nemesis, in descending order of commonality. It wasn't until the new update and sound glitch that Nemesis got so popular in my region, I swear
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716152#Comment_2716152
Hmmm, if you cant measure your MMR then why even have it? Its the most dumbest thing to me! So i have to "lose" to raise my MMR? lol its so crazy. The dev's should just take MMR out and just pair up people based off they're rank. So by me winning constantly your saying my MMR isnt raising but doesnt any kill over 2 raise it? Im so confused and it honestly is mindboggling i'd prefer that they'd just take it out bc to me it doesnt mean anything based off some of these answers. Can we get a dev in here! lol
No, your kills raise your MMR, and if survivors escape it lowers your MMR. The amount it raises/lowers is dependant on their MMR compared to yours.
The thing is, you might have a low MMR to start with, which would mean your tier of play isn't at the top even while your MMR is rising.