ElusivePukka
ElusivePukka
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True.
However, having both, with 4 stacks on both, after closing hatch: beautiful.
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@TripleSteal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716151#Comment_2716151
Could be this, could be that.
Generally speaking, if OP is sub 5k hrs player w/o major competitive experience, it is safe to assume that he's not hitting the roof of his region mmr rankings with his head, particularly with doc (no offense).
Not suggesting an individual's MMR here - just pointing out a flaw in the common wisdom with ELO as applied to DBD.
I'll also point out: OP didn't suggest they were top MMR, and wasn't asking other people to only reply if they were themselves top MMR. They asked: "What's your top MMR?"
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@Hippie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716138#Comment_2716138
My point is that all of these in-game actions are within the confines of the video game. Unless you're trolling your teammates or holding the game hostage, none of those actions are toxic...
Although, even then, those actions have a better basis for being toxic than someone pressing CTRL repeatedly in your direction.
I guess I really can't sympathize with people who let crouchers and clickers bother them so much. I actually laugh when someone gives me crouches because in the end, I'm not better than them, they aren't better than me, and we're all just players in the video game. If people want to gloat over their victory without actually affecting the game mechanically, they have the right to do so. It's not reportable, it's not toxic, and it only bothers you if you let it. Unlike real toxicity, which can actually physically hamper your game experience, or people in endgame chat telling you to unalive yourself. Those things are actually mentally harmful and actually reportable as well.
Someone so mauled they have to hit a hooked survivor is laughable to me, too. Someone getting up in arms about t-bags and clicks is playing into their hands, and I don't participate - I'm a killer main, and I'm confident enough in myself to not only move past but retain that every time they click or crouch they're expending the most valuable resource in the game: time. Our personal reception of these things doesn't change the received/contextually malicious nature of those actions. Malice is a communal label. Reportable? Usually not - a lot of toxic things in games aren't.
You simply don't get to redefine toxicity to fit your more selective preferences, though.
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NOED should, completely unironically, be basekit. I genuinely think training people to have to keep track of bones will be better for both sides.
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@TripleSteal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716126#Comment_2716126
That's not how ELO systems work, though.
Aven Fallen is right; if you consistently overperform, your mmr is lower than your real level at the moment. It doesn't indicate how high it is, it only shows the margin between your mmr and your skill.
The fact that we know there's a soft cap for MMR undermines this, though. Have a high enough MMR and you actually have it artificially lowered - matchmaking is bounded. There's a few people who will have high MMR in DBD's system who simply won't be being matched against equals.
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My big issue is that the geometry of the various debris piles does not synch with the visuals - hitboxes are worse than usual, being more valuable than the new validation fix, and these are the people who make maps the nurse can't blink through swathes of.
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@Hippie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716119#Comment_2716119
I actually played LoL for around four years, so I know perfectly about that community... 😛
But anyway, by your definition I guess that bodyblocking, flashlight blinding, using pallets and looping are all toxic behaviors--because many players find these things to be toxic and have a tantrum in endgame chat over it. And hooking and killing Survivors is also toxic, because it also makes players upset.
Do you see what I'm saying? Nobody intends to make someone upset when they play the video game within the means that the developers intended, but people get upset regardless. Pressing CTRL repeatedly or left-clicking someone on a hook are not toxic behaviors. Celebrating a victory over the enemy is not toxic. But things like insults and threats in endgame chat are toxic.
Bodyblocks? Theoretically toxic in some circumstances. Flashlight blinds? Not in typical use, just for getting away from a pallet break or a save, but the clicky/macro squads or bully teams? Yes. Using pallets could be if you're trolling fellow survivors. C'mon, you're probably better than the slippery slope nonsense.
"People get upset" isn't the slam dunk you think it is. Yeah, some people are irrational, but there's a difference between projection and reception - the former is internal, the latter is external, and only one is toxic. Pretending that they're the same, or that one nullifies the other: just untrue, whether you believe it or not.
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@Hippie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716077#Comment_2716077
I think my point is that DbD really is the only game that I've seen players get so offended over someone gloating in the game. I think because of some odd mentality with Killer players thinking that Survivors are beneath them, when they're actually just other players in the video game? I'm not sure.
It's never been called toxicity in other games. Because it's not. I stick with my provided examples of toxicity--they are actually detrimental to the game and very frustrating to deal with. Survivors crouching for ~5 seconds in the exit gate, something the Killer has complete control over by being able to force them out, is not toxic.
Not to mention; you've provided a definition of a toxic gamer. I've crouched at the Killer plenty of times before (usually if they're tunnelling or camping throughout the game) and I've also given some smacks to hooked Survivors. But I'm not a toxic gamer at all. I'm actually very friendly in my games, never have a bad attitude and always try to give a ggwp in endgame chat. I just enjoy celebrating a victory here and there. Being a toxic gamer and toxic actions are two completely seperate things... and you can crouch at the Killer or smack a Survivor on the hook without being toxic. Because it isn't toxic. It's purely the way people handle these actions that determines their effectiveness.
You obviously haven't been exposed to LoL or WoW players - those communities codify this issue :P
And again, like I said: impact trumps intent. It doesn't matter if you're intending to be a dick, but if you're received as malicious through the voiceless medium of the game: guess what, that's your impact; you're essentially arguing the same thing I am, but choosing to pretend objectivity exists in something determined subjectively.
Being a "toxic gamer" is being a toxic player, and vice versa, regardless of your personal definitions, proclivities, or preferences.
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My highest MMR killer is probably Pig, considering the sweat squads and hackers, but as you can imagine that's not a consistent performer in higher MMRs. Pain Resonance, Corrupt Intervention, Deadlock, and No Way Out are my go to, but if I'm feeling spicy I might switch out No Way Out for Plaything or Tinkerer.
Switching between Bubba, Ghostface, and Pyramid Head is what actually brings in pips, with basement Myers for flavour.
Cannibal: Distressing, Spies from the Shadows, Unrelenting, Barbeque and Chili. Just knowing how to use his charges is enough, he kinda doesn't need perks against the vast majority of survivors - maps are his real enemy
Ghost Face: Barbeque, Thrilling Tremors, Fire Up, and Discordance. I rarely go for marking survivors, preferring BBQ, Tremors, and Killer Instinct just tell me where people are - with Discordance being helpful sometimes, or swapped out for No Way Out if I'm having a rough time
Executioner: Distressing, Iron Maiden, Remember Me, and Discordance. A build almost entirely based on survivors screwing up, but they always seem to when I play him so I'm not exactly pressed to change it.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716074#Comment_2716074
Overcome is only really optimal with Iron Will/Spine Chill/ Lucky Break with a good Medkit with charges (speed Medkit) Good perk though
I've been sitting pretty with Botany Knowledge, Circle of Healing, Overcome, and Borrowed Time - most often with a brown medkit and no addons for setup. 2 meta perks per player typically means we're getting 3-4 escapes and minimal hooks.
It's not like looping is hard, and the dev's choice to "balance" by filling most maps with pallets means you don't have to bother with an extra greed if you don't feel confident. Killer at higher levels of play is about waiting for survivors to make mistakes: all you have to do, as a survivor, is play it calm.
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@Hippie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716053#Comment_2716053
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FJ0Q0RXPC2H6/screenshot-2.png
I'm sorry you think so, but crouching toward the Killer or hitting a Survivor on the hook are not severe enough to be labelled "toxic" in my opinion.
Toxic is telling someone to unalive themselves in endgame chat. Toxic is cheating and holding a game hostage until players are forced to disconnect. Toxic is not pressing CTRL repeatedly to hurt the Killer's feelings, or left clicking a Survivor on the hook--it may be irritating or a little frustrating, but it is not toxicity. It's only when people read into these actions and think they are reflections of themselves as a person that they start affecting them so negatively.
And I am being extremely honest in my take. I don't appreciate undermining and insulting my opinion, no matter how much you disagree. If you want people to see where you're coming from or understand/agree what you're saying, it's best not to insult them in the process.
Contextual and connotative definitions exist, sorry to burst your bubble. Impact trumps intent in interpersonal actions, whether you want to admit that or not. Your opinion is yours, but sorry: not all opinions are valid.
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Overcome is friggin nuts. Outright denying chase viability in most circumstances is big, and I've been timing it - it's a bigger value than DH for me and one other friend in roughly 87% of our chases comparatively. If I get a few more people in on that experiment, I might properly collate and release recording data.
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Meg/Bill.
I'm a killer main, but I've had a soft spot for Meg since beta and Bill's my main man. I make sure their P3/50 inventories are full of perks and items for when my friends want to play. I do switch it up if I'm asked to by challenges, fellow survivors, or a need for BP offerings, though.
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@Hippie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715913#Comment_2715913
My point is that BMing someone in the video game is not toxic, as it does not affect the mechanics of the game in any way, shape or form. And besides that, are the same Survivors crouching at you or the same Killers hitting you on the hook game after game? It's always different players, therefore it isn't ongoing, therefore it is not toxicity. It's literally just people being rude... like people are when they're pleased with themselves in every single multiplayer game.
Not to mention that every other multiplayer game in existence has teabagging... on your body. Heck, people on R6: Siege shoot your body repeatedly after they kill you when the round is over. Same on Halo Infinite. Survivors crouching at a Killer from the safety of the gate is nothing compared to people actually killing you in the video game and then teabagging your corpse. And even that is only done to get a rise out of the player, which if you're not bothered by it is useless. At least with Survivors in the gate, you can walk toward them and make them leave, which only takes a few seconds. And even with the Killer hitting you on the hook, you can either let the Entity take you or watch some YouTube.
In-game actions that affect mechanical gameplay and actually impede someone's ability to enjoy the video game are toxic, as well as endgame chat. Survivors celebrating in the exit gate or Killers celebrating their victory with some smacks is not toxic. It has no bearing on your actual gameplay.
This is one of the most dishonest, myopic takes I've seen on the forums. Well done.
BMing, by definition, is toxicity. You can't pretend otherwise when BM is "bad manners, esp. intentionally obnoxious behaviours" and toxicity is "interpersonally abusive behaviours" - they don't have to have a mechanical effect, their entire point is to irritate the other player or gloat.
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Because to them it's not about participation or skill, it's about beating someone else - which is understandable, because that's the mentality Cote's vision dictates.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2712962#Comment_2712962
So that's where they all learned it from...
I play a lot of training rounds with the volume off, so I can fidget and streamline my thoughts during calls. It's led to some weird insights into their programming.
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The training AI is worth losing to, at least once, just so you can marvel at the weird pathing and emergent behaviour BHVR put in - the Dwights actually T-Bag in a lot of my games, because of how they interact with some loops.
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Just give BT recipients no killer collision for the 12 seconds. It'd make the thing more effective while neutering emergent use.
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I did some tests - it seems to be every time Nemesis punches, at least for me
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@Seiko300 said:
Depends on how good you are with chases, if you're struggling in chases nobody would hold it against you if you ran Windows of Opportunity- hell, even if you are good with chases- WoO will still have a positive impact in that your chases far more efficient, simply because you know exactly where to run, which tiles have spawned with pallets or windows and which haven't, which windows are blocked off and which are open, etc.
If you feel you're getting tunneled too frequently however, you'd obviously probably consider DS instead.
The end all comparison is this:
WoO will consistently improve your chases, (and thus perhaps your games as a whole) since it is active in every match at all times. Whereas Decisive Strike has the potential to have a greater impact on a specific match- but you may not get the opportunity to use it most matches.
So at this point it's really a question of value- which do you value more, consistency, or impact?
Also, somebody tell me what the hell CoH stands for, because I don't think I've ever seen anyone use that acronym. I even looked into the wiki and the only perks in existence that start with the letter C for survivor are Calm Spirit, Clairvoyance, Corrective Action, and Counterforce. Now I'm left wondering if I've missed something for the past five years.
Circle of Healing - the perk that with 2+ heals in its area of effect becomes an exponentially good value to survivor time investment.
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710215#Comment_2710215
As long as I get a notification, it's fine by me!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710169#Comment_2710169
Thanks, I'm going to check them then. And thanks for the additional tips, I'll make sure to use the right addons while learning.
Slight warning about my recommendation - Panda's been getting burned out of playing killer, like a lot of people. She's been upping other games on her schedule, and playing more SWFs.
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People don't bother to learn RPD, and it was designed with some semblance of knowledge of current chase issues, while Haddonfield (even after its shadow nerfs) is still eminently abusable.
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Map value. Less map size, though traversal time is an issue, but pathing and isolated/clumping spawns of map elements is what makes traversal truly terrible and makes the Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, Overcome meta oppressive for killers, which becomes a self-serving cycle of abuse from game to killer to survivor to game.
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The Entity, if we were forced to go lovecraftian, would be closer to YogSothoth or Shub-Niggurath than Cthulhu.
They enslave mortals, feed on psychic energies, and create worlds and homunculi to serve their purposes.
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LittlePandaTTV is a mid-grade Spirit main.
I agree with most of what Gann said, of course, with a small addition: by and large, the lower rarity addons are better for learning any killer, but the uncommon (yellow) addons are the best for learning the flow of Spirit without sacrificing your ability to participate against potentially meta builds.
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DS is decent, definitely the meta choice, but I'm against its use for two primary reasons:
- if it's getting 'value': you're being tunneled, so it might be better just to do a minute on the hook and get to a more productive game.
- it has the chance of getting no value
Windows will always have some degree of value, especially after its buffs.
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The thing is, the devs won't accept the reality that MMR that functions correctly needs to be forward-facing - we're going to continue to have a lack of transparency as long as the devs feel compelled to ignore balance issues in their game.
Three things are required for a functional MMR system that aren't in DBD:
- Clear win conditions which compliment participation: something we do not get with the kill/escape system
- Sides in a fight being treated as a team rather than as individuals: something we're explicitly not getting, with devs treating DBD as a 1v1v1v1v1
- A visible MMR bracket: something the devs are actively against doing due to the possibility of players abusing the system, despite MMR being abusable even without that information.
Without those three things, there's no intracommunity verifiability or accountability, and the system is left exposed to as much abuse (if not more) than the old rank system.
So by that third point, yeah, we should definitely get ratio stats. We needed those for the rank system too. The devs are too egocentric and/or scared to give or even process real data, though.
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People still touting the "indie company" lie when BHVR's the biggest game studio in Canada.. :P
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"my-ther" is the US and British pronunciation, not much more to it
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@Nathan13 said:
Yeah they’re strong but I don’t use them because I can’t waste time blessing totems and then healing.
FYI - if all you get out of a boon is one heal, I agree with you. If you get your heal, and at least one other survivor also gets a heal, you've had a net benefit to time costs on the survivor side. 2+ heals is where CoH becomes valuable, not the first one.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630895#Comment_2630895
My threads are very important because they raise important issues with balance. Survivors are usually at a grave disadvantage. My posts are not all the same. Even if they were, why is it ok for a nerf Dead Hard post every day?
Whataboutism doesn't make dishonesty okay.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631153#Comment_2631153
right, I meant minimal verticality, sorry, I was being overly hyperbolic.
I almost said cramped, but that wasn't the right word.
I'm thinking a spaceship or a submarine.
Give us an Among Us map, BHVR! I'd honestly love a ship, whether for deep space or deep water, and do hope it gets added eventually.
I think verticality like what we see in Temple of Purgation or Eyrie of Crows is ideal, and I hold Disturbed Ward as one of the most balanced in the game for size, verticality, and pallet distribution. I do like the idea of the verticality in RPD - having what feels like 4 levels is neat, even if i's just two with small areas of additional height, but the map's size and pallet spawns just make it all unwieldy.
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Keep in mind there's 7 gens in total, and should be spaced far enough apart so even ranged killers ought not to be able to pressure 3 at a time without moving.
My answer was no. Map sizes should be around 10,000 m^2 - for context, Gideon's is about 9,000 and Disturbed Ward is about 11,000. Minimal verticality is fine, but a complete lack is just more Shift+W promotion.
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Why are you arguing that killers should tunnel? Because that's what you're doing by saying killers should do the equivalent of a survivor doing bones.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The issue has escalated into DDoSing, doxxing, and swatting. So hopefully soon.
Someone got swatted? Because that's a crime with teeth in the punishment.
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What's the irony?
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I mean, Mike and Amanda had a semi-canon kid: Shape + Pig = Ghost Face
More seriously, I'm pretty pleased that there's little canonicity between the various characters. I think too much interconnection might lead to some questions and less than pleasant commentaries seeping into the game.
Doesn't mean I don't appreciate Wraith and Nurse finding solace in one another.
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Billy, Twins, Deathslinger, Clown, Pig, Ghost Face, Myers, Trapper, in no particular order.
Hitbox regulation and validation fixes to their fixes, geometry meshes actually matching what's on screen, and a sound equalization quality control pass is honestly slightly more urgently needed than an individual killer change.
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@LiquidSoap said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630875#Comment_2630875
I literaly have 60 hrs in this game why did I got matched against them?
Hours and grade are both not factored in when it comes to matchmaking. The only thing that currently matters is kills vs escapes: they may have had a hook streak, or you may have had a kill streak, or both.
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You literally cannot post a screenshot of MMR gaps, because MMR isn't displayed in-game.
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@adirgeforthedead said:
I decided to try the PTB for a day and played as much as I could, but I do have to agree the Artist is very strong in her current state in the PTB and could use some tweaks... in her current state, I expect her to become the new Spirit where people will just DC when facing her because there is no counter play to her spamming her power around loops and getting hits from across whole sets of structures. I don't think she is essentially overpowered, but she does need some changes.
In an unrelated note, I had the honour of facing @Sluzzy last night when I was on the main build.
The counterplay is to Shift+W away from where she sets up. She slows when she's putting up dire crows, and proximity is what really poses a danger - just go to the next loop, rinse and repeat.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630585#Comment_2630585
Yes. That is correct. And yes they congregate at the top mostly. It's also not coincidence I keep getting them. It's not coincidence people like Coconut keep getting them.
I only point it out because hackers can pick an MMR and killer to face if they so choose, with a pretty high accuracy rate to get certain content creators if they like - it's not a coincidence you get them, I get them, or a content creator gets them, but so too is it not inherently indicative of high MMR.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630464#Comment_2630464
Efficiency is dependent on the end result is it not, is it the most effective manner... no slugging everyone and 1 hooking is the most efficient manner to win, but that isn't always a viable option either and is also dependent on survivors flaws.
I don't know if you understand the concept of macro decision making and game sense, but there are most definitely times where camping, tunneling, slugging and all that are the best and proper choices to make; showcasing ones skill in the game. You call it barely playing the game, but people don't need to take the most difficult strategy to play the game, actually meta gameplay usually is all about using the easiest, most efficient and optimal playstyle to win. Believing that one side shouldn't do it, while the other side can do it is one of the main reasons of the challenge I set out.
Camping most definitely requires skill, as 2 survivors can easily save if you mess up. It might not be a skillset you acknowledge or deem being good at the game... it doesn't mean it requires none at all.
The fact that you call tunneling no set of skills required, while the act of tunneling is chasing a survivor... means that according to you nothing requires skill. If you tunnel and are effective it even indicates that you are ending the chase so quick that even with no pressure being applied to the other members of the team, that it results in you winning.
Is the W survivor meta, pre-dropping pallets, pallet camping really all that skillful or also a showcase of barely playing the game? Like I can acknowledge the survivor that manages to get additional value out of a loop being a better gamer, but does that mean that the one that doesn't loop in the same manner is barely playing the game or doing it incorrectly?
Not all strategies are equal when it comes to skill cap or skill floor, but they are still valid. Why should killers not use the easier to execute strategies, while survivors use theirs?
Efficiency != Effectiveness
You're talking a lot of theory but have presented little in the way of practical game-sense yourself, especially when you're still self-deluding that camping requires skill, coupled with a continued pretense that "what survivors do justifies what killers do, regardless of personal stagnation of either side" - that's a lack of decision-making or personal culpability, not an honest assessment of what situations you find yourself in. If you rebut with something in good faith, you'll be worth talking to - till then, ta.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630522#Comment_2630522
We should be able to check it. I agree
But currently. That's how you compare it, yes. It's not "going off a hunch" It's just logic. Is it not ?
What do YOU think it says about your MMR. If you're getting a constant parade of hackers that can't lose ?
Hackers can and do manipulate MMR - they're at all strata of play, they just collect more frequently at the top. Keep that in mind.
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I genuinely think having a cumulative blessing reduction per bless action is the way to go - per totem, that is, rather than per survivor.
First blessing? 14 seconds. Second blessing on that totem? 18 seconds. Blessing on a different totem? 14 seconds. Etc.
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As even-keeled as I try to be about DBD and gaming in general, excitement and fun can become rage if you get denied satisfaction - the bubbly anticipation of something good can quickly boil into anxiety and frustration given the wrong stimulus. It helps to find in-game methods of self-soothing, especially interactive ones with button presses and audiovisual feedback, so that what's already directed at the game has somewhere to go.
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Just give us back our "by daylight", meaning pre-dawn lighting. All the golden hour stuff just looks like Call of Duty hero missions.
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I faced this one, in the before times, who kept me on his shoulder past the EGC kill event. I had looped a Deathslinger for 4 or 5 gens, and then POP: I was one-hit down, and on his shoulder. We spent the rest of about 20 minutes flying around in the skies of Springwood. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't wasn't annoyed, but it was interesting.
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Let yourself recover, we can wait for More Bush.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630357#Comment_2630357
If you facecamp and it is effective you haven't been outplayed though... if it is effective it caused you to win. Just as if you play stealthy and your team escapes. There are more than one way to approach a game, there isn't one specific way to play as it is about the efficiency of it and whether or not it works. It is contextual, because there is no blanket strategy that always works. If you are capable of turning a single face camp into a 4 man kill streak, you most definitely outplayed the survivors. You did not apply the skills necessary to do better? You have been outplayed? No you used a different strategy that requires a different set of skills, good survivors can save get all out or at a minimum get 3 out. If the win condition is loosely defined, does it really matter how you got there?
There is no point in playing the end game according to you, but unless the game actually concluded... it is part of the trial. If you snowball and pull it back at that point it is just as valid as slaughtering everyone with 5 gens left. It might have been a more challenging trial, but isn't that the point of a game?
Who are you to define what skillset someone needs to develop or how good they have to be at your way of playing? If they want to play in a different manner and achieve the victory... that sounds to me like a valid manner of playing.
A facecamp's effectiveness is entirely dependent on whether survivors give you kills - you're not doing anything, you're barely playing. Getting carried to a survivor escape is, similarly, not your doing: you're not being effective, you're just given opportunity through privilege. At this point, I can't tell if you genuinely believe the nonsense you're saying or if you realize you're just lying about what's necessary and have to stick with it.
There is no "set of skills" to a facecamp or tunnel. Saying there is leans this toward the "you're just dishonest" idea, much less basing an entire self-deluding ideology about a video game around it.