ElusivePukka
ElusivePukka
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2622053#Comment_2622053
A difference without a distinction, the game treats them both the same way.
No, it doesn't. When an M2 has a cooldown or charges that get used, or a miss animation that takes longer, it's an empirical loss of resources for a killer even compared to M1 'misses'
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2622038#Comment_2622038
Value is irrelevant, they're both validated by the server in the same way.
Being very sure of yourself doesn't make you less wrong. Value isn't irrelevant, you literally asked what the difference was - rejecting the answer makes it clear you're not here in good faith.
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@[Deleted User] said:
What exactly is the crucial difference between a server rejected m1 hit and a server rejected m2 hit?
Cooldowns and charges used. M2 hits are more valuable, and often more punishing when a 'miss' animation plays.
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@Beaburd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620971#Comment_2620971
Very stylish.
But whose butt am I staring at?
That looks like the new Feng outfit
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To quote a wiki:
- Superhuman attributes
- Near invulnerably
- Immortality
- Brute strength
- Pain immunity
- Murdering skills
- Police weapon usage
- Other police skills
- Fighting skills
- Intelligence and planning
- Stealth
- Teleportation (possible)
- Intimidation
- Leadership
Seems like a Myers/Jason type, as far as powers go. Not sure of what power to derive, but he apparently can ram through walls: maybe he can bust through terrain on a cooldown and the terrain reforms behind him.
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To be more complete: if NOED was basekit it'd never be a surprise. The most irritating thing about the commonly complained about perks (DS, DH, NOED, et al.) is that there's no warning - you're expected to play around them in mid/high-tier matches even if they aren't in play. NOED also has an easy counter in 'doing bones' which I think would be a nice secondary objective for survivors; a deliberate gamble to just M1 gens, or taking a little time to make sure the bones are down for end-game plays. Learning totem spawns is also just good knowledge to build on map generation.
No more feeling like your time's wasted as a totem hunter, either, which is kinda my biggest point.
I also feel BT or something similar should be basekit, o'course.
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Since the list you provide already doesn't stack: git guud
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No. What happens for every update since the switch to Unreal, including ptbs, is that every separate game file needs to be individually validated/replaced - technically, it's more overwriting itself than really installing much of anything new, but that won't change the effect on your download time.
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Any detriment to "facecamping" beyond 'Kinship' based on range should be rendered null by the presence of an unhooked survivor near the hook, by about +5m compared to the killer, otherwise survivors could just hook-dive to abuse the system.
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NOED needs to be basekit.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2620545#Comment_2620545
Lady D was alright. Not worthy enough to be in DBD though.
"Large creature that stomps on you" is enough for me - I more want it for variety than anything else - but by your logic, the disrespectful travesty that is Nemesis in game really shouldn't be in DBD.
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Just give us Lady D :P
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Killer main - but when I play survivor, my primary build is a heal/safe unhook build. I mostly put on WGLF for the heal boost, and frankly it's pretty good.
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Delete the game from your library if DH gets you this riled up.
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@Artick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619018#Comment_2619018
And the killer's build is not frustrating in the slightest, right?
Tinkerer, Discordance, and Pop on a Bubba?
Just keep your head on a swivel and split up, or are you playing on a level lesser than monke?
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@Underdawg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/292939/what-would-useful-data-look-like
Ever since the start of SBMM I have been keeping data on my games as killer and survivor.
As Killer I keep:
Killer Name, Match #, Map, My Killer Perks, Survivor Names, Survivor Perks, Outcome of the Match in Kills/Escape/Hatch, and random observations of what happened.
As Survivor I keep:
Match #, My Perk Loadout, Map, Killer, Killer Perks, Outcome of the Match in Kills/Espcae/Hatch, and observations.
I plan on plugging all of these numbers in a spreadsheet to be able to examine my experience in data form.
That's pretty dang cool!
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/292939/what-would-useful-data-look-like
As I mentioned in another thread is that BHVR have said (and demonstrated) that:
- They 'don't balance around high levels of play'.
- They'll nerf a killer (Wraith) because he was too easy for new players to do well with, and too hard for new players to deal with, despite him being fine at high levels of play.
- They won't, however, buff a killer (Nurse) that is seemingly impossible for new players to do well with, and is seemingly very easy for new players to deal with (hence her hilarious kill rate in that dataset), probably because she is strong at high levels of play.
3 demonstrates a pretty crucial inconsistency. BHVR only care about the new survivor experience. I wish I was being hyperbolic - but that's what these statements and design decisions boil down to.
By their own logic and established precedent, either Nurse needs a buff or Wraith needs his nerf reverted.
As to useful data, I'd want to see a graph with killer kill rates on one axis and MMR on the other axis.
Agreed.
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@lavars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619097#Comment_2619097
Basically everything, literally raw data.
but like i said, this data is useless, even if we know what perks are used in high MMR and which gives the most escapes or kills, it useless data.
I played a game called "GTFO" even was mod and tech-support for them, and i saw raw data, which was useless as we didn't had "finish a level per person" and "escape per level".
Let me give an example. Imagine we play with two friends, we all take dead hard, ds, bt and lithe, doesn't really matter what perks...
and you loop him for 5 minutes, we get all the gens and we all escape. This data is useless if we want to know which perks are useful. We would need a ground-data-set. What that means is basically a control-group. But that only says so much and from their we could work our way up to know WHICH data actually is useable.
EVERY data-set that has a use, needs to have an already existing data-set we can somewhat rely on. And with changing perks, maps and killers it's not useable data, no matter what data we have. The amount of data we WOULD need includes stuff that is impossible to get.
In that case, it would seem your answer would be data which is impossible to get - which falls within the parameters of my prompt. What would some of the impossible data be?
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@lavars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619090#Comment_2619090
No, i used bad phrasing, sorry for that, let me explain:
To know what would be useable data for them, for us, for the game, for... whoever... We would need data we don't have right now. The most informations or data we have is from what others say. And even this is falsify data.
as long as we don't have data, there is no answer to begin with.
To reiterate and paraphrase something in the first post: "what would you like to see as far as data goes, even if the ability to gain that data weren't practical or available?"
It doesn't matter what we currently have access to, because the question is about what you'd like access to and what you'd do with it.
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@lavars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619081#Comment_2619081
Same, we don't have the data in the first place. And my answer is the same. They would need data in the first place, to know what data is important. We don't have this data, and they only have a very tiny spectrum of data that is useable. they prooved it more than enough.
at the moment we rely too much on what content creator say or what we experience. From a pure data-point, we have zero information about perks and any data that would be useful.
We would need data in the first place to know what is useful data. And we need to know that this data is reliable "killers have more than 50% winrate" says literally nothing if in 2/10 games someone trolls or disconnects. Or if people are new to the game, they got lucky etc.
If YOU get the data or BHVR doesn't matter, they need the same amount and the same data. And to be honest do i think they don't have it.
You not understanding the point or intent of the thread is no longer my problem - have a good evening, morning, night, or day.
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@lavars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619057#Comment_2619057
The data IS incomplete, but like i said such data-sets need way more info than you can give. If you are a very good player and only play super high MMR, you have no control group, you would need the reason WHY someone takes certain perks, for example: what if windows of oppurtunity would be the most used perk ever if it would be a normal perk? many people don't evne have it unlocked.
same with other perks on killers, you would need to unlock every perk for everyone and then run the data in every "elo" and with every player, plus against the data what happens if certain perks would be blocked off. What are alternatives and what makes sense. we all know that two exhaustion perks don't make sense, but running "lithe" and "balanced landing" could be useful in 1 out of 100 games. We would need to set up every natural combination against every synthetic combination, that means "what is acutally the real data in every MMR area, and what is the best theoretical scenario"
Please reread my first response if this doesn't clarify enough: I'm saying "what would you like BHVR to release?"
I am in no way saying "What should I, personally, try to gather data on?"
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619043#Comment_2619043
The issue isn't so much that I want to.
If I had my way, I'd be able to run funky perks and play chill. However, I seem to be at an awkward spot in matchmaking where every second game is against a super sweaty SWF team that I have to play really greasy against to win, and no amount of crushing losses because I didn't immediately annihilate someone seems to change this.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619044#Comment_2619044
Something seems to be weird with MMR on my side.
For a while, I got to enjoy playing a more chill game, and still getting 2 kills regularly. Sometimes 3, but usually 2.
Now...it's not like that.
I'm up against 1 of 4 possible combinations of opponents.
3-4 intermediate players like myself: usually a fun game.
1 super high-tier player and 2-3 potatoes: not usually a fun game.
3 man 5000 hour SWF team and 1 intermediate player: not usually a fun game.
4 man 5000 hour SWF: I get destroyed.
I see a lot of toxicity in postgame. It might be when I'm playing, or just my MMR. But I've been cussed out for 'not playing a normal game' when I pick Pinhead and run Plaything.
I hear you, and I'm not a fan of MMR as shown in-game. I trend toward two extremes - the crossplay 4-man SWF who gets destroyed, and the PC 4-man SWF who typically get two out the door. Maybe the crossplayers are where DBD stores all the toxicity against me so I just don't experience it - recently ran into my first 'in the wild' accusation of racism for using Bubba's chainsaw.. without even having the theoretically problematic cosmetic. That was maybe my first toxic moment in a year.
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@dugman & @lavars : I'll not be able to collect all that on the whole of DBD, but I'm not sure how to more eloquently word "Dangit I'm a curious person, think the dev team's previous data is incomplete, and my own experiementations won't amount to much: I wonder what other people are curious about and wish BHVR could shed light on" - I'll try to edit the original post to reflect that better, though.
I'm typing under the pretense that BHVR would be the ones releasing the hypothetical data dump, so they'd have access to MMR and other relevant bits. If I wanted to do that I'd have to enlist a hacker since they can view MMR, which I'm not quite willing to do.
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I get thanked for playing nice -shrug-
It's fairly rare for me to get toxicity in post-game chat. I'm at a place similar to the same "realization" as you, but my own epiphany was akin to 'it is okay if you don't 4k' - when I stopped pressuring myself I started to get fairly good as a killer. Even in games with a BNP squad I'll usually get a kill before the 3rd gen gets done, and I let myself get visibly silly in-game if the survivors see me mess up.
If I'm smiling, I'm winning, and often I think the survivors can intuit if you're getting pissed or having a good time, which I think carries into the post-game experience.
Yes on your points about Nurse, data collection, and the state of nerfs/buffs, though.
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He's just a mild adjustment from "Hold W for win" to "Hang tight to corners for win"
A lot of Trickster players, including myself, can also be juked with some serpentine/jagged movement if you keep your fluidity going - semi-strafing can get you to a lot of loops with minimal knifage.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619018#Comment_2619018
Ahh that is true, but he got a 4k, so I dont get why hes complaining.
I mean, it's a frustration build squad and according to the post they got toxic in post-game: I have a guess as to why OP's complaining.
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@Tr1nity said:
Also you were going against 3 no mithers.
It's a No Mither sabo squad, they're not exactly there to escape. It's just a frustration build.
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I'll not tunnel in most scenarios, preferring to slug and preserve at least some pressure if I really can't find anyone else.
I want my 8 hook minimum. I vastly prefer being able to 3-hook everyone, because doing that means I can say I performed well throughout - but I understand those that feel they need that extra bit of pressure, or who have a sense of 'justice' for the other team.
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@jesterkind said:
Quick clarifying question- useful for what purpose? Just general-purpose data collection for monitoring the state of the game from a developer perspective, or for something more specific?
Useful according to a game-centered metric of your choice. A couple of my own (survivor pick and offerings per match) are fairly superficial as far as game design goes, unless the other ones got more concrete stuff to pair with that info - but I think they'd be interesting as far as "what do people want to play" queries. The others are more focused on balance - but I'm genuinely interested in pretty much any direction others would want to see represented in some idyllic dev data dump.
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https://youtu.be/smYQfAFGaGk
I'm gonna start posting this on hacker threads.
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GeneralV for Creative Director, CEO, and Generalissimo of Development Oversight: may the General change the glassdoor description of "Not the best games and most exciting projects"
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@ImBlissful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2618831#Comment_2618831
what makes a game engaging and fun to you?
A subjective experience wherein interest is captured by ways some may interact within the game, and amusement or entertainment is derived therein.
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As long as we keep the weighty punch. It's one of the most satisfying things in the game to actually punch something and have a fluid animation that feels hefty.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2618889#Comment_2618889
The difference is a max of 200 MMR, which isn't much when players can earn up to 40 each game, especially killers.
The difference when a fresh killer first gets played is a max of 200 MMR, but it doesn't stay there. The difference can get much higher if there's individual data, and most people who play multiple killers had data going back a few months before MMR was officially implemented.
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MMR is disparate among killers - your Pig is either higher MMR than your Cenobite, and/or you're running into some bad RNG on the RNG dependent Pig.
That said, I still feel my Wraith's MMR ought to be getting higher considering my 4k rate, but I'm getting potatoes too.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2618861#Comment_2618861
I may have worded it incorrectly. But my point is. While that mindset is fine for them. It is NOT good for the game.
They can have what they think is fun/good chases and have all 4 escape with 2 hooks all game. And that's great for them.
But it is NOT good for the game. And is not a mentality that killers should just "adapt to" Because it can be borderline impossible to catch survivors without forcing them to come for hooks and exchanging.
Where did OP say it was "good for the game"?
All I see is 'good for their personal enjoyment' here - there's not even a recommendation that other killers adopt the same mentality.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2618838#Comment_2618838
It is one dimensional because people only think about the game and how they think it should be with zero regards on what the devs have to go through and put up with. They don't consider the fact that they're employees and don't run the show. I don't see how I was being hypocritical in the slightest.
Yes, the devs do mess up, they're human and fallible to the pressures that you mention, but the loss of their jobs and having to answer to superiors needs to be considered when people are so quick to disparage the devs, and not just in this game, but with other companies. To go back to my original point, players need to stop being hostile to them and just rationally discuss the issues they have. They don't deserve the disrespect, especially when I've never seen them disrespect us.
You complain about Behaviour and their greed, but they are literally no different than any other corporation on the planet. You can hate the company all you want, just don't hate people trying to survive and make a living.
No hate on individuals at BHVR from me, save Cote - I don't jive well with smarm. Disappointment abounds, though, and people who screw up should be held to account. The devs aren't evil, but they're not in touch with their game, and they're not working with an eye towards the health of the community.
I say it elsewhere, I'll say it here: they're not a small indie company. They really don't deserve coddling, especially with all the benefit of the doubt and second chances the game and those devs have burned through. People should ideally refrain from supporting them monetarily until there's a semblance of game/community health taken to the forefront, and the community ought to seek a transparent influence on the game's direction.
If someone has a job, they choose to represent that vocation. Saying otherwise is just shirking responsibility.
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My Pig and Leatherface both love that main building, and Pig/Blight/Hillbilly can all get to some silly spots with their powers.
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I'm okay with a maximum (you said minimum) of 3 pebbles at a time. I also like the idea of being able to actually aim the pebble by holding the button versus the typical throw with just a button press.
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@Huge_Bush said:
This is off topic but you know, your message would be better received if you didn't try to put down the devs and just tried to discuss the issues that you want to discuss. I'm not happy with all of their decisions, but in the end, they're just human and they have people they answer to. They still need to take the orders they get and provide results according of whats expected of them and they can't always do what they want since they can get fired and lose their livelihoods which will cause lots of trouble for supporting themselves and their families.
Not everything is as one dimensional as you think.
This is a pretty earnest reply. It's also pretty hypocritical in saying OP's being one-dimensional.
You're ultimately saying a nuanced take can't be summarized with "the devs ######### up" - which is empirically wrong, because the devs do ######### up. Sure, they're human. They're thus both fallible and susceptible to outside pressures - which is one of your points, but them having superiors and families to feed doesn't mean much when there's basically an open call for game devs in the industry to jump ship.
BHVR gluts itself on corporate and consumerist greed, and by and large gets a pass because of people saying "won't somebody think of the feefees of the people involved?"
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Do we not even have a spoiler tag?
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I'd suggest a detriment. Consuming the toolbox, for example, but only applying the BNP when you "use" it - similar to the medkit consumables.
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@FellowKillerMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2607780#Comment_2607780
Unfortunattely, I think you're right. A little bit later, or possibly earlier, in that same interview Cote criticizes "The King", "Paulie" and other players when he says "you guys invest too much time into the game". He trying to explain why he thinks some things become problematic, and he suggests (my interpretation) that playing the game too much leads to learning too much about the game, and allows you to take advantage of the developers' design flaws. This stuff makes me so frustrated to hear, because it's just pointing the finger.
"Look, it's not our fault the game we made for your entertainment was fun. Don't enjoy it too much, or you'll end up realizing it's not just imperfect, but a heavily flawed piece of software cobbled together with superglue and gaffer's tape."
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2617133#Comment_2617133
You really think all that time investment is really shorter than 16 seconds? And your point about subsequent heals are dependent on the totem still being up.
I do, from experience as a survivor and as a killer. A well-placed CoH can heavily mitigate even 3-gen pressure, as I've been experiencing in SoloQ and killer - and it can get downright oppressive when used by SWFs.
My conclusion, as I stated, is that CoH is conditionally the same or better than Self Care for time investment - but with bad placement or choices by survivors it can be made worse.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Do you really save that much time though? In between finding the totem, blessing it, and then healing, how much time have you really saved?
It's the same reason why lucky break still exists, despite shadowstep now in the game.
The time investment is roughly equal for the first heal, but is between 8 and 16 seconds saved per heal past the first per blessing.
There's almost no time actually lost, survivor-side, for that first heal, because Self Care is slower and you'd be using two survivor's time without.
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@dspaceman20 said:
I love playing stealthy. Quick aide not maybe it's just me but i feel stealth is not really viable without iron will
Mild disagreement. Even without Iron Will/Urban Evasion, walking a circle around the right rock can juke a lot of killers in the beginning of a chase - at least long enough to get you to a loop.
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Agreed - with a caveat. If I'm searching for you, or on your team, and you're choosing to hide rather than helping/saving a teammate, you're a detriment as a survivor to the survivor side. There's "not progressing a game" and then there's simple inaction, but both are bad.
Full props to someone just playing things smart, though.
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So do killer dailies and get BP. What are you actually complaining about?
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@coolmacc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2616034#Comment_2616034
Not when you have to do it on a survivor with no perks are you kidding me
Is that a joke? "Power Move" is one of the easiest achievements to get, and you're not getting it without some chasing
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Claudette, if we're counting Tome content.