vladspellbinder
vladspellbinder
About
- Username
- vladspellbinder
- Joined
- Visits
- 1,059
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Seraphor said:
Instead of RBT timers decreasing with each one that successfully goes off, they should decrease with each one successfully removed, but not by 30 seconds that's a bit too much.
Also I think she should get an add-on that changes the activation trigger from 'gen completed' to 'unhooked'. So you put a hat on them, stick them on a hook, and then the moment they're rescued it starts ticking down. This would be instead of any substantial timer decreasing add-ons, probably instead of the one that removes box auras too as that's way too evil, and it would make her power valid in the end game after the final gen is repaired.
If combined with the 'jigsaw boxes get used up' nerf, this wouldn't be too overbearing. You'd likely only have one box to go to, which would counter act the fact that there's no gens left to defend, and that the timer will be starting automatically on unhook.
I want to point out that the add-on that hides the box auras only does so [i]while the RBT is not active[/i]. So if the trap instantly activates on an unhook that add-on wouldn't combo [i]at all[/i] anyways.
Now, for the original poster: I love playing Pig, she's such a fun Killer to play. But something to keep in mind is what @Firellius said: her RBTs are not really intended to kill a Survivor, they are meant to be a time waster. A Survivor should really only die to an RBT if they get super unlucky or they play really badly. Depending on the map and the box spawns and where you are when your RBT turns on it is [i]possible[/i] that you might not even make it to the third box if the first two don't have the key in it. This happens only on the largest maps of course. But only on the smallest maps is it not a danger that the [i]fourth[/i] is the one you need.
Really the only reason a Survivor dies from an RBT in the first place is so they have a reason to waste the time getting them off. It's not their main purpose, just the incentive. That being said I do feel they could be tweaked a bit to make them a little more deadly so it happens a bit more often. The tweaks needed would need to be pretty small so on the edge cases of "large map, can't reach third box" don't become too problematic.
Maybe if they had some way of knowing how far apart each box was and had a dynamic time based on that. The further apart each box is the longer the timer is but if the boxes are closer together the shorter the timer is. This could be a bit of a problem on Midwhich and Meat Plant because while technically a box on the lower floor and a box on the upper floor are 'close' to each other you've got to go a bit around to get from one to the other. But that's only two maps and I feel that each Killer should have some sort of advantage based on their Power on their own map.
I think a nice, small buff, would be that any RBTs you put on people after the final gen is done are already on. Survivors can leave with an inactive trap on their heads, but not an active one. I get that having this feature is supposed to make The Pig use her traps early instead of late but sometimes you just get that one Urbane Evading Blendette you couldn't find all game and were saving a trap just, for, her... .
I do somewhat like the idea that as more gens are finished all timers are shorter. Maybe make it so that only [i]new[/i] traps have a shorter time though. That way people already with traps don't have to worry about just suddenly not having the three seconds they need to finish up their last box because someone else wanted to genrush.
I agree with @Seraphor that the timer going down for kills is problematic. Again, maybe if it was only new traps and not current ones it would be fine. Though I do prefer their suggestion to lower the time when a trap is removed. But, again, it would need to be on new traps. It would not feel good at all to be killed out of nowhere because someone else did something that helped them. And by making all of the changes only impact new traps it means you have to be a bit more selective on when you use them, instead of just slapping them on everyone first chance you get.
-
The wiki has a really good breakdown of each Emblem and what gives points to what and how many points they need for each rank.
Emblems are a new Ranking Mechanic that was implemented with Patch 1.9.4 into Dead by Daylight . 1 Overview 2 Survivor Emblems 2.1 Lightbringer 2.2 Unbroken 2.3 Benevolent 2.4 Evader 3 Killer Emblems 3.1 Gatekeeper 3.2 Devout 3.3 Malicious 3.4 Chaser 4 Emblem Qualities 5 Ranking 5.1 Pip Conditions 6 Change Log 6.1 Patch 2.0.0 6.2 Patch 2.3.0 6.3 Patch 3.0.0 7 Trivia The Emblem System is a replacement for the Victory Cube for Killers and the old Bloodpoint-related Rank Mechanic for Survivors. A PBut, yeah, them and the pipping system need a lot of work.
For Malicious you need to make it more like the BP categories in that they each Killer gets points for their powers, that way insta-down Killer don't get punished for using their power to insta-down. So like with Plague you get 1 point whenever they go from Healthy to Injured via Infection and with someone like Cannibal or Ghostface the single hit downs give 2 points instead of only 1.
Devout also needs a rework where you can get more than a Bronze by not sacrificing anyone. It really sucks that if I double hook everyone but don't sacrifice one of them I still only get a Bronze but if I get a 4k from single hooking everyone I get a Gold. It should count total number of hooks, not sacrifices. 4 hooks for Bronze, 6 for Silver, 8 for Gold and 10+ for Iridescent, with there being a bonus 1 point for hooking everyone at least once like there is now and maybe also keep the bonus 1 for reaching a total of nine hooks. This way you have a 3-4 point buffer for if someone goes second stage first hook for whatever reason or even dies on first hook.
Chaser also needs a small tweak in that you don't loose the points for being near a hook if you are [i]in a chase at the time[/i]. Far too many Survivor loop the Killer around a hooked teammate and the Killer shouldn't be punished for that. Punish them for camping the hook, yes, but not for not wanting to just let a Survivor go because they happen to be running around someone else on hook.
I honestly think Gatekeeper is the one Emblem that doesn't need much in the way or reworking. The whole point to to keep gens from being done and Perks are a large part of that. Maybe tweak the numbers a bit so there is some sort of multiplier based on how long it took for the first gen to get done. But even then often times keeping the first gen from being done is the hardest thing a Killer can do. The first and second gens are pretty much free depending on factor like how large the map map and where people spawn and all that so it's tricky, sometimes even the third gen is a lost cause if Survivors got lucky. But it really does suck having to draw out a match to farm Gaterkeeper points so I don't really know what to say here.
Survivor Emblems are also really out of date and need some love as well.
-
@Seraphor said:
So then they'd be SWF sided?
One survivor plays a hatch offering, only they can see it, but they can then tell their team what offering they played.
They don't even need to be in a SWF for that. If you have cross-play off you can just tell everyone in the chat in the lobby.
I really wish [i]all[/i] offering were secret. The fact that only a select few are hidden means you can pretty much easily guess what they are. By making them [i]all[/i] hidden until the end of the game then you have more surprise in each match.
-
@Seraphor said:
New players should get get a +100% innate bonus to bloodpoints for their first x trials.
The first 50 maybe would seem fair?
Giving them a bit of a head start at least.
But in general bloodpoints should be increased a little, especially for survivor. It's so easy to rack up 64k+ bloodpoints with killer using BBQ and a BP offering, but survivors can be tunnelled out of a game and leave with 5k, which is ridiculous.
I don't think giving bonus BP to [i]first[/i] games would help too much because you still need to learn things so really early on you won't be getting much in the way of base BP to apply a bonus to. Now if the bonus applied to the first 50 games [i]after[/i] you reach say, Rank 15, then that should be good.
But really I agree with @gilgamer in that Perk Tiers are just, really, really, really out dated. There is no reason you'd ever [i]want[/i] to use a lower Tier Perk and they are really only there to bloat the Bloodweb. When people talk about Perks they only ever talk about the T3 version of it, because any other version is near useless.
Really the Bloodweb itself is just kind of out dated as well. It's not really all that fun and only there to waste people's time. I'd rather be playing the game with the characters I want to play instead of not being able to run Jake because he doesn't have Balanced Landing for the challenge I'm working on and so on.
-
Not to have a "what about" thing but this is just part of the problem of Survivors not getting enough Bloodpoints over all, which is part of the "the Grind is real" problem.
The only BP that 'easy' to get as Survivor is Objective, and even then to max that out you'd basically have to do three gens with someone else or four gens by yourself.
Boldness is somewhat easier to get, in that totems give it and with a map or a single Perk slot they are easy enough to find. Interacting with the Killer also gives points here but that's hit or miss a lot of games. An away Killer or a camper won't give out much BP here.
Altruism is again Killer dependent. If no one is hurt or you can't get people off hooks you're not getting much here.
And finally Survival. This one is also very much up to the Killer and how they play. And even if you do get hurt most of the points here not based on getting out alive are based on healing yourself, which you either need a sub-par Perk (Self Care) or a medkit to even get.
Survivor BP overall really just needs a rework. The Bloodweb overall really just needs a rework. I [i]get[/i] that the point is to make people play more games, but you shouldn't have to [i]force[/i] your players to play your game. They should just want to play your game for the fun of it and feel like they are being reward for playing the game they have fun with. Playing Survivor does not at all feel rewarding because of how little BP you get.
-
I must be blind because it always seems that my Perks never conformed to a set order when I swapped between my characters and it just looks like they sorted based on the order I got them in instead of anything else. I've not yet ever gotten two character with even close to the same list of Perks so I guess it was just conformation bias.
I feel a bit stupid now in that after looking because yeah this is already a thing and I was just being blind.
And stupid.
-
@TiltedBandy said:
I dunno, You said a lot of reasons why monitor can't be the issue. I dunno what to say sorry
No, I gave a lot of examples of things I've done that normally cause motion sickness in other people but not in me. And then I said that as soon as I played a game with Monitor & Abuse I very quickly got motion sickness.
When I never got motion sickness from playing Dead By Daylight before.
So if you had actually read and understood my post you'd have known that what I said were not reasons why it couldn't be M&A but were examples of things to empathize how badly M&A affected me.
-
Something to keep in mind is that if you have both a toolbox and Saboteur when you are near a hook you'll have TWO options: M1 to use the tolobox to sabo and M2 to use Saboteur to sabo. It may be the other way around but I know for a fact you are given two options on which to use to perform the action they both give you.
I too was running a sabo daily one time and brought in Jake to get it done instead of bringing in toolboxes and found a toolbox much like you said you did. I wasn't trying to sabo save so I had plenty of time to notice the two options. So you may want to test this by running Saboteur and taking in a toolbox with you and seeing if using the toolbox triggers the Perk or not.
-
@TiltedBandy said:
I think that maybe it isn't the game that's 'causing that
What else could it be? As I said I've never been motion sick before. And I play a lot of first person games and do a lot of things that people say makes them motion sick. But the very first time I ever play something that is constantly changing my field of view I get motion sickness?
So what else could it be?
-
@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2143908#Comment_2143908
I still don't agree with this reasoning. Anyone who wants to actively tunnel people out of the game definitely do not need a hook state tracker to help them do that. They just need to not forget who they're tunneling. It is far easier to keep track of who you are tunneling out of the game than to keep track of the individual number of hooks each Survivor has.
That last sentence so very very much.
I've already said I want everyone to get out alive unless they are toxic so when I get that person who rapid clicks flashlight or t-bags from the hill or behind a window or rapid vaults something on the other side of the map from me I lock in "tunnel this person from the game" and have no trouble remembering to doing so. I'm sure someone going into the game with the mind-set of "Tunnel the first person I hook" won't have any trouble remembering who they hook first.
But when I'm in the middle of a game trying to keep track of where everyone is and what they are doing and where I need to prioritize so three gens don't all finish at once on me it's really easy to forget who it was I double hooked three minuets ago when my hook counter is at five and BBQ is at 4 tokens (because you can be at five on the counter and one person hasn't been hooked yet and that's the part I'm really scared of because now it's two people I don't want to hook instead of just one and one I really want to hook for BBQ so I can really set in that one I want but might forget which two I don't).
I've not got the best memory in the world, either short term or long term, and I can only repeat a mantra for so long to try and keep things in mind before too many factors come into play and I have to drop a mental thread and focus on all that's going on now and not stuff that happened before. I keep running into situations where I'm thinking "Was it one or three that was dead-on-hook?" or I'm thinking "Only three is dead-on-hook" and I hook four and, whoops, they were the ones that had already gone second stage not three. Feels bad man.
-
@Firellius said:
While it would help people like you avoid accidentally tunnelling someone out of the game, I'm afraid it would be too much of a supporting tool for people that want to maliciously tunnel someone out, so I don't think it's going to happen.
@JPLongstreet said:
As much as such a change would help out the rare type of killer you are, i too see nothing but tunnels coming out of it.
However, I see a compromise that might do the trick: force an Obsession in every trial. With the decline in use of reworked DS so many matches now have no Obsession, and those that do are caused by a killer perk, meaning likely still no DS in play.
I feel this give and take is fair enough. Thoughts?
As @Jay_Whyask and @Yords put it tunneling happens, even without this feature it will continue to happen. Will being able to track who is already dead-on-hook make it easier to tunnel people out? Yes, it will, but if a Killer player starts a game with either intention or a willingness to tunnel someone they'll do it.
I have heard and seen cases where a Killer player wanted to semi-tunnel someone but couldn't because they forgot was dead-on-hook and who wasn't, it happens to the best of players (Otz: "This person dead now." *Hooks person, was their second hook not third* "Maybe not.") so of course it's going to happen to the average player. But I think for every Killer player who uses it as a tool to tunnel you'll get more that use it instead of spread out their hook states, ensure everyone is hooked once before hooking someone twice, unless given an easy down because even I don't ignore those, and make the game a bit more fun and fair.
I just outright do not accept the "It'll help tunnelers!" argument because of the simple fact a hard-core tunneler doesn't need it. They will still just go right for the person unhooked and ignore everyone else anyways.
@JPLongstreet On the matter of there always being an Obsession: I've wanted that to be a thing long even before the D.S. change was announced. The amount of information both sides get from there being a lack of an Obsession is pretty big in just how many Perks, both Killer and Survivor, it rules out. By always having an Obsession you have to guess what's going on and why it's there if you're not the one running the reason. And even if you are the reason you have to wonder if there is something on the other side that would also cause it. Plus it'd be a few extra Bloodpoints for every game. Killer Mains don't really need it but it'd help a little for Survivors.
On the matter of D.S. being run less: If you stopped running it because of the change you were not running it to prevent being tunneled in the first place. If you are being tunneled you'd not be able to do any of the actions that disable it now anyways so nothing changed there And the distinct lack of Obsession in games shows that a lot of people were using it as sixty seconds of semi-invulnerability than to not be tunneled.
In my opinion D.S. was never really all that good at that job in the first place, really only being useful at end game when an escape option was open and preventing you from being picked at the Exit Gate. So many people just eat the stun and continue the chase and while five seconds is a while the Survivor isn't free to act those full five seconds so it's closer to three, maybe four, seconds of run time. And you're leaving scratch marks and blood the whole time so it's not like you can go and hide without a build totally dedicated to making the best use out of those seconds from the stun. And then if you've used your D.S. at four gens left you've got nothing to protect you the rest of the game.
And even now I'm still getting a lot of people using D.S. offensively against me as Killer. Running in while injured when I'm chasing someone else and going down or being healthy and interrupting a chase and jumping in a locker. It's still sixty seconds of semi-invulnerability, you just can't be sitting on a gen with it any more.
But that's a tangent to the topic. I do honestly think it'd be better for the game if Killer Players had the individual hook states like Survivor Players do. We'll never be ride of tunnelers and campers unless it is made literally impossible so being held hostage to the fear of "It'll make Bad Thing X easier!" isn't worth missing out on "It'll make Good Things A, B, and C easier".
@QwQw said:
-For your financial support.
Have an internet cookie. And by that I mean an up vote.
-
The chat filter was a good idea on paper, but like a lot of good ides on paper was terrible once actually done.
It filters so many non-offensive words and phrases. It just doesn't work.
The chat filter needs to be taken away, removed. Like it was before it was added. Just gone. And instead all games just start with end game chat closed. If you don't want any interaction there, you don't have it. But if you do want to talk you can just open it up and close it when someone gets crazy.
The main source of toxicity in the game is not from the chat, I'm not saying there isn't any in chat but it is not the main source of it. Filtering chat in this game is like Japanese porn censoring: Slapping a little censor bar at the tip of a bellend isn't going to hide the fact that it is indeed a bellend and pound signing out bad words isn't going to prevent me from knowing bad words were said, just which ones.
So, Pretty Good Job So Far on the chat filter there devs. Please stop. Please just do better.
-
When I play Twins I go into the game planning to slug or camp. If The Survivors don't play well and give me the opportunity to slug then I will do so.
The main problem is not the Killer, it is that Survivors just don't know how to play against Twins well. If you pair up then it's easy to kick Victor after he downs your partner, you just have to be in position and be ready for it. And now unless Charlotte is already really close you should have time to pick them up off the ground and move away from the area.
Of course it's also best to just not run injured against Twins, so Victor can't down you, and even when no one is injured you still run in pairs.
I don't change my play style as Twins no matter what the Survivors do, other than taking the chance to down multiples and slug for a bit if they let me. If someone is alone and injured I'll swap back and go pick them up, never just slugging one. But because I always play the same I can tell you there is a big difference between when Survivors run solo and when they run in groups. The latter is much harder to do anything against.
So, no, the Twins don't need any nerfs, not the ones the devs have already said they'll make and not any suggested here. Once everyone knows how to play against them The Twins are a struggle to play as. It is just another problem with Solo queue, in that you'll never know if everyone else knows how to play against them.
-
I bring it up every time someone talks about nerfing Keys: There is an achievement/trophy for all four Survivors escaping through the Hatch. If Keys are removed this achievement no longer becomes possible at all. I know a lot of people don't care about that sort of thing but a lot of people do care about that sort of thing.
So unless there was another way of opening the Hatch for everyone removing Keys can't be done, and if you can open the Hatch some other way then the point of removing Keys is moot.
I personally think Moris are fine, I just wish there were more decent offerings that were "Secret" so when that Killer offering doesn't flip you don't just know that it is some sort of Mori because what Killer burns a Shroud? I honestly think that ALL offerings other than Realm ones should be secret, that way you don't know if there is a Survivor who will be mono-focused on gens (Objective) or one who is going to spend the whole match going for heals and unhooks (Altruism) or if the Killer is going to be using their Power a lot more than normal (Deviousness). The main reason second-hook was such a big a hit to Moris is that because Survivors know it is in play they just let themselves die on the hook instead of getting Moried. If the offerings were all secret you'd have to wait and see if someone gets Moried or not instead of just taking the hug. The Mori just short-cutting the third hook is also fine, the only time this is normally a problem is if the Survivor ran off into a dead-zone with no hooks and would be able to struggle out or need to be left slugged and that's exactly when you'd want a Mori anyways. The Survivor buys time for their team by running so far out of the way and the Killer gets their kill.
As for Keys I think they are fine, and should be in the game. The one change I'd make is actually to the Hatch and that is: make it only spawn once five gens have been repaired or only there is is only one Survivor alive. None of this (gens repaired = (number of Survivors alive + 1)) math it is doing now. This would prevent three or two person escapes while they ignore the generators while also still making the achievement possible and rewarding good teams for making sure no one dies while they get gens done. It'd also prevent the scenario where two Survivors are still alive and one is just hiding out at the Hatch waiting for the other to die. Not doing gens, not helping in anyway, just waiting to easy escape once the other person dies.
-
@RepostRiposte said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2139111#Comment_2139111
Lmao what
You literally can't get 40K in a normal match. The max is 32K without special offerings or BBQ.
You said it yourself, Barbecue & Chilli and We're Gonna Live Forever as well as the offerings give bonus BP after trial. So, yes, you CAN get 40k, or more, in a single trial. The base 32k can be doubled to 64k with one of the Perks and TRIPPLED to 96k with a single "100% all" offering and then you can get even more if a lot of people bring Bloody Party Streams and slash or Gateaus.
As Killer I often rake in around 55k to 65k BP per match because I work on making sure I have all my B&C stacks and then max out everything but Sacrifice as well as having a BP offering of some sort. Meanwhile on Survivor I'm LUCKY to get 20k, because 5k of it is tied into getting out alive and it's really dependent on if you get camped or tunneled first.
I agree with the original poster though, the grind in this game is way to [bad word] high. It is especially painful if you only play Survivor.
I think the best way they could trim out the fat would be to just remove Perk Tiers. They are really only there to bloat the Bloodweb anyways and make the grind longer. If not totally removed maybe make it only two instead of three? Really, there is no reason to have Perk Tiers, at the high end of play they'll always be T3 anyways so all it does is punish lower level characters.
-
@Reinami said:
I'd like to see something that slows down the early game, fixes 3 genning, tunneling and camping and overall makes the game better.
Tweak numbers, but:
Double or even triple the time it takes to repair a generator
Give survivors a stacking buff that increases the speed of repairing a generator by 1%, call it "Hope". Cap it at 150 stacks. Survivors don't gain stacks until either:
- the killer has hit any survivor
- The killer goes within 6 meters of any survivor
- The killer "powers up" in any way (oni, myers, ghostface, etc.)
If a survivor is being chased, they don't gain stacks. If a survivor is hit, they lose 50 stacks. If they get hooked, they lose all their stacks and don't gain any until they are unhooked.
This would slow the early game down. It would also highly discourage tunneling, because the guy who just got unhooked has 0 stacks and is repairing generators extremely slowly compared to the other survivors that might be capped on stacks. It discourages camping for the same reason. This also makes 3 genning weaker. Because survivors could go to the other side of the map, and gain stacks, then go start repairing the generator much more quickly. This forces the killer to leave the 3 gen to go after the survivors, or stay and risk them repairing the gen much more quickly.
@AssassinZodiac said:
Personally, I think we should leave gen speeds the same, or make them progressively slower in the early game at like 60% normal speed and they get faster as the match plays on. So like every 2 minutes that passes the gen speeds go up another 15%. Up to %200 faster after like 15 minutes. That would ensure longer matches overall, but still be fair to survivors. Especially when there are just 2 survivors left. I should mention though that I think this is how gen speeds work in Identity V.
Also, I think skill check should get harder to hit as you level up from yellow to red ranks. Keep it the way it is currently for yellow ranks. Then decreasing the size of the skill check success zone every color upgrade of rank. Being a higher rank survivor should be able to handle a 50% decrease in skill check success zones.
I do like the idea that gens start slower than they are now and get faster as the game goes on. I like the "Hope" idea because it would discourage camping and tunneling. We'll never out right remove either unless it is made literally impossible though so all we can really hope for is some strong discouragements, such as "If you don't hook Survivors they get faster on gens".
That'd help with camping but not so much tunneling, as if you get one Survivor out of the game A.S.A.P. you don't have to worry about their "Hope" stacks at all. Maybe if there was something along the lines of "If a Survivor is hooked a second or third time without another Survivor having been hooked all Survivors gain a stacking permanent X% bonus to repair, healing, cleansing, and unhooking speeds".
I am strongly of the mindset that tunneling is only a viable tactic because of gen speeds, so if something is done to give the Killer more pressure or to ease the pressure they are under then you have no reason to tunnel and should be punished for doing so. But as the gen speeds as they are right now I understand why people tunnel and slug, because they don't really have a choice if they want that 4k. Without Ruin and to a lesser extent Pop tunneling and slugging are really your only ways of slowing things down enough to win. So I do understand why they happen. Not really so much when they happen at five gens but I do somewhat understand.
Camping is a whole other story. There is no reason to ever camp. It is just out right anti-fun and only works against bad Survivors, netting you a 1k and maybe a 2k against good Survivors and you didn't even really play the game at all.
@Starshadw said:
The issue here isn't gen speed per se - it's the simple fact that in almost every situation, longer matches weaken survivors and strengthen Killers. The more time you give a Killer in a match, the greater the Killer's chances are to get more kills - especially if they are using toxic tactics like slugging and camping. Survivors have no good reason to want to do things that make the match last longer. The secondary objective of totems remains just that - secondary. If you find one, you might cleanse it unless there's a gen nearby, in which case you're probably going to prioritize that gen. The only time you see someone prioritize totems is if they are working on a challenge.
I agree, that's why I like the idea of adding in something Survivors have to do that makes the game go a bit longer that isn't just upping gen times, or if gen times are upped then adding in something that either lowers them to and then down past base or having something that makes you repair faster.
I'd rather the later as it feels more rewarding to "Be faster" at something than it does "Make it take less time". The human mindset is a funny thing.
@DemonDaddy said:
Have each hook give the individual Survivor a permanent repair penalty, call it maimed. Killer is rewarded for switching up targets and individual survivors are less likely to be tunnelled but punished for failures.
I strongly believe that being one step closer to being taken out of the game is punishment enough for being hooked. We don't need to layer anymore on people for an honest mistake or just being bad at the game because they are learning.
@SammiieK1991 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2127052#Comment_2127052
Gen times take 80 seconds as it is alone my guy. That's more than enough time. Killers just need to put pressure on gens and patrol more... x2 on time wise to fix a gen is absurd. You'd lose alot of survivors, no survivors no match. Who in their right mind wants to sit at a gen for over 2 minutes 😂
The problem with the "Just apply more pressure" argument is that only a few Killers have good mobility options and some are even actively hindered in getting around the map because of their lower base movement speed. Nurse is really the only "slow" Killer not hurt by her base speed because of her Power. [bad word], because of her Power she's got the best mobility of every Killer with a skilled enough Player behind her. Spirit is also really strong because of her mobility, with Hillbilly being decent in getting around as is Cannibal with the right add-ons. New Wraith might become top tier like Spirit but he's got some things holding him back. Nightmare has his porting, which gets stronger as more gens get finished because he has fewer places he needs to check. Hag is alright but she has to control a very tight area because of distance limitations so her Power isn't about getting around as it is protecting key areas like Trapper.
Map sixes are an issue because of this. I've had a lot of Deathslinger games lately where I go straight from one side of the map to the other and the gen I am heading towards is already at 75+%, because Tinkerer goes off on it, before I even get there and when I do get there it get's finished in my face. Because I couldn't move fast enough to get there even though I had a mostly straight line and didn't get distracted with a chase along the way.
So until maps are fixed in such a way every Killer can "apply more pressure" our only other option is to look at gen speeds one way or the other. Make them slower, make them require something other than just holding M1 (making them slower because you need to find that thing) or just something that makes it so Survivors get one or two "free" gens because you just happen to be playing a 110% Killer.
@SavouryRain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2127038#Comment_2127038
This still punishes solos while also punishing people for wanting to play with friends.
If I'm a soloQ teamed up with 3 SWFs, I'm still suffering the effects of them having basically thanatophobia on them. And then if the Killer brings any other slow down perks? Yeah, my team is basically useless for gens at that point.
Likewise, my friends and I would always have a thanatophobia effect on us? Yeah, that's really fun to work against.
@Palkia123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2127038#Comment_2127038
I'm sorry did this mother ######### just say SWF that want to just play the game to have fun get an instant thanatophobia stack?
I know I'm on page 3 and there is a page 4 but because of the way these forums work I'm responding on page 3 before looking at page 4 so you two may have already done this but I'm going to say : Don't bother with landromat, they don't want to have a discussion, they just want to be right. It seems that they personally don't play SWF and are heavily Killer sided and as such just want SWf punished, they are not looking for a discussion on how SWF could be more balanced or Solo buffed or Killer made on par with SWF. They just want SWF dead and gone and don't care about anything else.
So don't bother responding to them anymore, you are only wasting your time and feeding their ego. You'll notice I didn't @ them for this post myself.
-
@JasmineDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2131018#Comment_2131018
I mean 6 check points would be every 16.6%, which is pretty close to 15 as is. Every 15% wouldnt be a round number of checkpoints
15, 30, 45, 60, 75, and 90. That's six. 100% is already a "check-point" so doesn't need to factor into things and as such doesn't really matter it's only 10% instead of another 15%. The top check-point below 100% probably wouldn't come into play all that often but it'd be there.
-
@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2131018#Comment_2131018
Buffing solo means buffing 2-3 man swf then by your logic
In a round-about way, yes, it does. Because the solos with the SWF do better.
As I've already said Solo needs to be better first then we can make Killer better, the answer is not "Make SWF worse".
But I am getting the sense that you don't care about finding a solution so much as you care about having an argument. So unless you start trying to not be argumentative I'm done talking at you, because I am sure not talking with you at the moment.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2129159#Comment_2129159
Good on you for being willing to look at your own playstyle for ways to improve! You could try recording your games and watching through them after to see if you can figure out moments where you could have made a better decision, or even posting them on the forum to get feedback.
I've got all the set up for streaming on Twitch (sans face cam) and even not counting that have recording software. I just don't fire it up when I play because I'm playing for fun and the majority of matches I do play are not worth recording.
But every so often you have that one game where dumb and or insane things happen and you wish you had it recorded... .
@JasmineDragon said:
This has been said for a very long time, but give gens either 4 or 6 check points. When a surv leaves a gen it begins regressing to the most recent check point. When a killer kicks a gen it begins regressing normally. This prevents gen tapping and rewards pressure
This is the first I'm hearing the "check point" idea. One thing to keep in mind is that new people are always coming into the game and onto the forums so ideas that are old hat to you are new to them. I only recently started the game, end of 2020, and have only been on the forums for a few months as of this posting so I'm trying to play catch-up on a lot of things.
I'm not really sure how I feel about having Ruin, even a weaker version of Ruin that stops at key points, being a base-kit sort of thing. It always feels bad as Survivor when you get a gen to the high 90% of completion and are then chased or, worse, grabbed, off of it and when you can finally get back around to the gen you find no other Survivor came by in the time you were gone and it's now either totally dead or in the low 20%. I've been there as Survivor. It makes me want to cry when it happens.
So if there were check-points there would need to be more of them and not less. Maybe something like every 15% was "banked" unless the gen was in "regression mode", which is either active Ruin or having been kicked and not repaired since the kick. It's easy enough to gain 15% and being caught out between those marks won't feel as bad when you can get back to the gen as Survivor. It's also give Killers a bit more reason to kick a gen after downing someone, because if you can get it under one of the check-points before another Survivor comes along and then bother that gen again once they you get more regression.
The only issue when it comes to having check-points is how it would interact with Surveillance. Maybe add in a fourth color for when a gen hits a check-point instead of regression being stopped by a Survivor? I'm not sure if they go from white to red if they hit zero or not or if they hit yellow for a moment before going back to red. Maybe when it hits the check-point it just goes right back to red without having been yellow. Bit of an odd duck.
@MB666 said:
mmm well...probably maybe adding a ...EARLY GAME MECHANIC
-every survivor at the start of the match get a debuff (maybe -50% or -30% if u want a fair number) of only REPAIR SPEED ACTION.
-to get ride away of that debuff u need to do :
1) start a chase no matter whats the situacion
2) change of health state (healthy ..to injure , deep wound , infected , etc)
and OPTIONAL
3) just cleanse a single totem..
well thats my idea to prevent cases where people doesnt show atlest once to the killer and dont do anything more than sitting on gens hidding ...any suggestion ..or idea can be well recieve
The repair speed hinderance shouldn't be too high, and I think 30% is just too high. The point isn't to prevent Survivors from repairing gens early to but make the game more fun both both sides. Also I think the main two conditions should be either to escape a chase or change health states. so if the Killer finds you and they either choose not to chase you or do chase you and you slip away you're no longer hindered. It's basically to same as having started the chase but doesn't take into effect until the chase is over.
And really almost anything that gets people to Do The [bad word]ing Bones is a win in my book. Helps me as Survivor, fewer chances for NOED, and helps me as Killer, keeps them off gens for some time.
@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2129159#Comment_2129159
So you'll just ignore the fact solo survivors have advantage now because their swf teammates are more efficient. This is not punishing. This just removes advantage
When I play Survivor I'm pretty much always playing Solo, very rarely do I ever get to play in a SWF. I'm often teamed up with two and three person SWFs though. You are ignoring that if you do anything to a less than four man SWF you'll be hurting Solo players.
I consider myself to be a Killer Main, for every Survivor game I play I play maybe five or six Killer games. Having said that I still say that we shouldn't try and nerf SWF but instead should in some way buff Solo. And then once Solo is on-par with SWF and Killers are starting to underperform then we buff Killers. At no point in time should there ever been a penalty for playing with your friends. For every team of four de-pip squad hard-core gen-rushers out there there are many more teams of four friends who just want to casually enjoy their game of cat-and-mouse together with someone they don't know as the Killer. There is no way for the game to tell two groups apart so anything you do to one will impact the other and make it less fun for the casual people.
And if I haven't made it clear yet my whole goal is the make the game the most fun it can be for everyone. I know you can't totally please everyone but you can make it so that there more people that are happy than there are people that are unhappy, and punishing you for playing with your friends isn't the way to make people happy.
Unless they are the sort of people who like that sort of thing that is. Which I play Dark Souls so... .
@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2127796#Comment_2127796
I mean, Ruin only works if you keep chasing people off gens. You could have Ruin up for the entire game without having any impact because people dont have any reason to go off gens. If there is 2 people working on the same gen and you decide to chase one of them, the other one will return within seconds. That's not exactly what we would call gen pressure. That's just you making the gen repairs slower by removing 1 survivor and letting the generator regress for maybe 5 seconds at best.
You could go for an injure on 1 survivor, then go back to the gen to go in chase with the other, forcing the injured one to create distance as they dont know if you would keep chasing while you push the other one off the gen again, forcing the gen to actually regress for a significant time. If there is a survivor nearby to prevent Ruin from regressing, Ruin wont have any significant effect.
In my example game on this very post I have that exact scenario you talk about early in the game. Getting the Tinkerer proc and bothering two people on a gen, hitting one before looping back to the other person to chase that person off as well and getting a hit. That gen didn't get finished until later in the game. Ruin did it's job and I did mine. I was putting pressure on people to give Ruin time to work. I wasn't always bothering two people at once but I was constantly in chase and I was getting hooks often enough that it didn't feel too bad. At many points I knew where three or all of them were at because of various reasons and most of those times the answer could be summed up as "Not on a gen".
Ruin didn't go down until three gens had been finished, and by that time I had single hooked everyone, second hooked one person (who was saved in the middle of ->) and was in chase with a third who I'd already injured and was in a good position to down because they were in a dead zone.
My problem was that I felt like I was applying decent pressure and gen were still getting finished so fast. There never seemed to be any time only one Survivor was working on a gen, it was always at least two people, so I was really sure it was Prove Thyself but it wasn't.
I will freely admit I'm not the best Killer player, and that I have a lot to learn and get better at. But saying basically nothing more than "Apply more pressure" is not constructive advice. How can I apply more pressure? Without tunneling someone out of the game how can you apply more pressure when there is only one of you and four of them? Slug? Because the answer always seems to come back around to either tunneling or slugging and I don't normally do the former unless someone has been toxic and I don't do the later for a 4k but will do it sometimes to slow things down a bit.
@KingFrost said:
-For the first 60 seconds of the game, Survivors receive a 50% generator repair penalty and are oblivious.
-Whenever a survivor is unhooked, they suffer a 25% gen repair penalty for 60 seconds, but get a 7% haste status effect for that same amount of time.
-Whenever a survivor dies, the repair speed of remaining survivors is increased by 6%
-Kicking a Generator instantly applies 2.5% regression.
-BNP's now light the generator up Yellow for killer (as a downside)
A minute is a long time in this game and 50% is super punishing AND being Oblivious is basically a free hook to every Killer ever, the only reason it's not broken on Nightmare is because of the kid's song. If this was done only the extreme masochists would ever play Survivor and that'd kill the game more than the lack of Killer Players ever would.
Being hooked should already be punishment enough for getting caught, no reason to slap on a repair penalty as well. And, again, a minute is a really long time in this game. The Haste effect is also better than D.S. and is really what D.S. wants to be: true anti-tunnel. You can't get tunneled if the Killer can't catch you after all.
If you gave Survivors a reward for others dying it would encourage them to be less helpful to the teammates while at the same time also encouraging Killers to slug more often. While the idea seems nice at first glance it isn't in-line with what is intended to be normal gameplay.
I'm all for adding to base-kit gen kicking. 2.5% is really reasonable, I normally say maybe 1 or 2 personally but 2.5 isn't a bad idea. But this topic isn't about base-kit kicking or regression, no matter how many people keep bringing it up. If you have an active Ruin the whole game kicking never comes into play.
If this was done then everyone would switch to using Brand New Parts the way I use Brand New Parts: for the last 25% of the gen, making it pointless. I pretty much always wait to use my toolbox to finish a gen, this includes when I run B.N.P. so making it highlight a gen does nothing to it, unless you also add that it can only be used on a gen under 50% or something like that, which would be a big nerf.
I don't mean to be mean and just shoot down all of your ideas but my goal is to make the game more fun for both sides, not just for Killer. While it most likely won't be possible to make things fun for Killer without making them harder on Survivors in some way there should be something that can be done to make it at least some what more fun and interaction on the Survivor side. Just slapping penalties on them is neither fun nor interactive.
@Friendly_Blendette said:
Gen times are fine for the most part its the lack of mobility most killers have and the default regression being the worst thing known to man that are the issue.
Lack of mobility with stupid large maps. I was playing a slow Killer as well so "lack of mobility" was probably a key factor in why the gens felt like they went by so fast.
@Raptorrotas said:
Instead of increasing the time we should probably make generators more difficult to repair.
Imagine even good survivors not being able to watch a rwitch stream while repairing a gen 😂
I'd rather not get quick time events please. They are one of the things that is putting me off of Home Sweet Home: Survive. I don't mind skill checks because it's the same key every time and you get a good warning. Having to worry about what key to hit is what annoys me about Q.T.E.s and what H.S.H.:S. has going for it, being either "Q" or "E" is not fun to me.
I'd be all for adding more skill-check to gens, but have it so that only a few of them have the "Great" area on them, being more like an Overcharge check or an Autodidact one. Because if they are just base skill-checks having more of them would defeat the purpose because good Survivors can hit that "Great" more often than not and those 1% jumps add up over time. This would interact oddly with Stake Out but it could be changed to say like "for checks with a Great area Good" or something.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Let's wait until we see how killers are performing with a mature MMR system before doing anything to make gen progress more difficult. Red-rank matches are statistically killer sided with rank-based matchmaking. Killers do not need help with gen progress unless if this trend changes with skill-based matchmaking, but we don't have enough data to comment on that at the moment.
Also, getting a first hook is huge, and not getting one early is probably a big factor in why you lost that game. Thanatophobia helps slow gen progress a little bit. Incapacitating one survivor by slugging or hooking them, forcing a second survivor off of gens to go for the save, and starting a chase with a third survivor helps slow gen progress a lot. The first hook of the game is especially important because at the start all four survivors are doing gens. Forcing them off gens as early as possible is key or you'll be fighting a losing battle.
The other key factor is that, by your own admission, you were outclassed by two of the survivors you were playing against. Assuming the other two survivors weren't absolute potatoes, the survivors should win that match most of the time. In a balanced game the better players should win. So, if there's any real complaint to be had, it's that matchmaking had you play against a few players who were better than you, not that gen times are too fast.
I admit that I didn't place as much portly over the first as I maybe should have. I've just seen a lot of times when someone gets hooked, I don't camp them and the other three Survivors all stay on gens and don't go for the save. Even when I then get in to chase with a second Survivor the first is still on hook and goes second stage while two gens get finished. "Gens before friends" happens uncomfortable often in my games, on both sides. And when I run Thana I tend to focus more on spreading out the injurers than I do on focusing downs and hooks.
I will need to reevaluate my playstyle somewhat.
On the other matter I'm at a point now where I, mostly, know when to drop chase so as not to waste time on lost causes. I would chase on of the really good Survivors for a bit, catch them out of position when I could but often only just chased them from the gen and into another zone I wanted to search for someone easier. My main problem with my example game was Thana was often at three and four stacks of debuff yet gens still went by fast without a Prove Thyself in play.
Maybe it wasn't any faster than normal and it only seemed like such because I was struggling on catching half the team. There are a lot of factors I probably didn't take into account which is why it's such a tough issue to come up with a solution for; lots of interlinking parts to fiddle with and if you change something too much it all breaks apart.
@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2127796#Comment_2127796
i told you debuff is not affecting solos so what's your problem? You can't hurt solos because they already have advantage by playing with swfs. what's you problem? Just accept this is a good solution
I'm going to link back to your original post here again so people don't have to go looking for it:
@landromat said:
Gen speed is fine if you're against solos. Coordinated swf gives info when ans where to do a gen so they are more efficient. Swf members should get gen speed penalty for playing together. Let's say 5% for player. So 2 survivors group will have 10 penalty, 3 survivors 15 and full stack swf will get 20. Solos are not affected by this change so that should be fair
In this is there are only two cases where your idea does not hurt a solo player: a four man SWF or two separate sets of two SWF getting paired together. With a three man SWF or a two man SWF the solo player(s) is (are) being punished by the SWF people not finishing gens as fast as if it were other solos and this makes it harder for them to get out of the Trial alive. If you do anything to hinder a SWF other than a four man you also hinder the solo player(s) that get teamed up with them because they don't contribute to the team overall as much as the equivalent amount of solo players would.
I'm not real hard on the "If you kill SWF you kill the game" as some people are but I understand that SWF is important for the game and should not be removed. I'm really hard on the "Buff Solo" side of things. Once Solo Survivor is more on par with SWF then Killers can be buffed to that level but until Solo is easier any buffs to Killers to counter SWF or nerfs to SWF that don't only apply to SWF will hurt Solo.
And Solo is already painful enough as it is.
-
@ilovedbd123 said:
The fact that it can't be kicked at 50% is stupid.
Plain stupid.
Scott Junds idea was that something has to be acquired to make gen times the same as right now. The part or wrench or gas can is across the map from the gen, and makes the gen cost 80s, otherwise it takes 160s. If you get downed you drop the part and the gen it corresponds to and the part both glow in a clear and identifiable colour for both the killer and survivors. Once picked up by another/the same survivor the aura drops.
It was just an idea, one I wasn't even feeling that strongly about, no reason to be rude about it. But sometimes you do need to call the stupid thing stupid so... .
People kept brining up Scott's idea but you're the first person to actually say what it was and I could never find the right video. I'm not sure how I feel about each gen having a specific item for them and not just a general item that works on any gen. There being specific items for specific gens solves the issue of a generic item spawning right next to a gen but it also causes an issue that a Survivor can pick up what's needed for a gen and prevent everyone else from effectively working on that gen, making them forced to be really slow.
Still, the idea has merit and with some tweaking of things could work.
@Predated said:
The biggest generator issue this game has, is that it takes 2 seconds for a killer to kick a gen with 0 regression and it only takes a survivor 0.2 seconds to stop that generator from regressing.
This is why a lot of people are advocating the 5% regression on a generator when a killer kicks it, meaning that if a survivor taps a generator that's 90% done mid-chase, the killer can actively punish that action by kicking the gen to regress it back instantly to 85%.
While I agree that kicking and base-kit regression is a problem my example game Ruin, which casues double base-kit regression, was up for four gens and I was able to apply decent pressure for most of the match and even so four gens got finished before I had anyone on death hook.
I was "playing fair" when I could, and not going after the people already hooked unless I came across them but even if I had tunneled someone out I'd not have been able to apply the pressure I did so they'd still gone by so fast.
My point is that it wasn't kicking but just gen speed in general. getting a buff to kicking in some fashion would be nice and really help but doesn't address the issue of how fast gens can fly. You can't kick a 100% gen after all.
@MadLordJack said:
Rework gens. Remove the holding m1 and replace it with item fetching to force potential interactions.
I actually like this idea, as both a Killer and a Survivor. It'd make the game more interactive and give the Survivors something to do instead of holding M1 the whole match.
Thinking on it you could set it up that each gen needs two items, from a choice of a spark plug, a gear, some wire, and some fuel, with each gen needing a semi-random set of two from those four. When a Survivor comes across a gen they interact with it and see the aura of all versions of one of the items that gen needs. This aura reading is not permanent but it lasts a long while and is affected by anything that deals with aura reading. Once you've got one of the items the aura of the gen you interacted with is shown to you so you can find your way back to it. Interacting with another gen will show you one of the items needed for that gen and over-rides the previous one you touched.
Gens without the items can be repaired, but can't be finished until it gets both items it needs. This will make it so all of the various perks that care about gen pro/re-gression don't become useless data. Maybe combine it with Scott's idea above and for each item missing from a gen the total time needed is prohibitively high but still feasible.
@RenTheCat said:
They need to force teamwork to fix gens. It's extremely stupid that each survivor can pick a gen on each corner of the map and that's it, in 80 seconds they finished the game, they don't even need the last gen because of the hatch.
Make it like, if 3 survivors are in a gen it takes 60 seconds, if it's 2 it takes 90 and if it's just one like 120 or more. If the killer doesn't feel like tryharding and getting 5 hooks on the very first minute of the match, 3 gens are gonna pop by the time he gets his first hook unless the first survivor you find is trash.
The whole thing is even worse in big maps with slow killers.
I just want to point out that is all four Survivors are still alive the Hatch won't spawn until all five gens are done. So, no, four Survivors can't escape via Hatch by not finishing all the gens.
I do sort of like the idea of forcing teamwork, the problem there is it would make Discordance super powerful and pretty much an "always run" Perk much like Ruin and or Pop is right now. Maybe if this change was made make it so Discordance only goes off if there is only one Survivor on the gen or it is three or more. That way two people can do their job on a gen without having to worry about giving their location away and any solos have to worry about being found because they are alone. This would of course give a [bad word] ton of information if it goes off on four gens at once but then that's on the Survivors for not working together.
@landromat said:
Gen speed is fine if you're against solos. Coordinated swf gives info when ans where to do a gen so they are more efficient. Swf members should get gen speed penalty for playing together. Let's say 5% for player. So 2 survivors group will have 10 penalty, 3 survivors 15 and full stack swf will get 20. Solos are not affected by this change so that should be fair
The problem with punishing any SWF is that unless it is a full team of four you'll always wind up punishing the solo players that are in the same trial as them. The main thing with SWF is indeed the information shared, and the only answer there is to ban outside chat applications. If DBD had some in-game form of proximity chat they could probably get away with "banning" outside chat. Not that it could really be enforced.
There is no good answer to SWF, because "Just remove it" isn't an option because people want to play with their friends.
@papabear2009 said:
I think might be worth to try having a longer gen time but as you complete more gens the faster they go. This would be good for the killers that rely on having a little setup like demo, hag, and trapper. While I think survivors would like to have an advantage against a 3 gen.
I would like something like this cause I think seeing 3 gens pop in the first 2 min is just a horrible feeling as a killer. Even if I'm setting up a 3 gen. It just doesn't feel good.
I also like this idea. The problem is that some Killers can just out-right prevent the first gen from ever being finished so it'd be very hit-or-miss on if this would be fun or not.
@Doomsaki said:
There are a few commonly tossed around ideas that have been discussed again and again, so I'll try to come up with something radically different:
I think generators should be faster, not slower. The less M1 simulator the game has, the better. However, the killer should have greater power to dictate which generators he wants to defend. For example, let's say that each survivor the killer hooks for the first time allows him to completely reset a completed generator (an incentive not to tunnel and spread out damage).
Right now, survivors have to spend 80 seconds multiplied by 5 for a total of 400 seconds minimum. Let's say generators were 50 seconds instead. 50*5 = 250 seconds of generator time. The killer can potentially reset up to 4 generators for an extra 200 of generator time (1 gen per unique survivor hooked). While faster generators are generally much easier to do for survivors, the killer can potentially choose where he wants to cluster generators in groups of 3 or 4 at a time to apply very strict pressure.
This is just a vague concept, but the goal is to make the objective of generators have much greater tension by forcing tight groupings to defend on the killer's own terms instead of generators being uninteractive objects where they get completed in total isolation on opposite corners of the map. Right now survivors dictate the terms of the game, but something like this might put it in the hands of both sides to control.
Hum. While my knee-jerk reaction is, of course, "FASTER?!" this idea does have some merit to it. Maybe not 50 seconds, maybe 65? Split the difference between 50 and 80. And to reset a gen you have to go and physically kick it like normal, and instead of straight resetting it goes to 50%, or 25% if you have an active Pop, and then starts normal regression (which will also hopefully be buffed) or Ruin if you have it up.
Because the main problem I have with a straight up back to zero is even if the gens are faster it'd still feel really bad to the Survivors to have to restart from scratch four times over, basically having to finish nine gens when sometimes five can be a chore. Maybe also make it so a gen can only be "unfinished" once per game, so if they finish it again the Killer is out-of-luck on that one.
And we're never going to fins a solution to tunneling, unless it is straight up made impossible. Even with this change it's still a better idea to get get one person out of the game fast because now you can just reset a single gen that got finished in the time you hunted them down. Maybe make it so the Killer loses a reset when a Survivor dies. That would give them some incentive to not go for early kills unless they don't need the resets.
-
OK, first off, I'm a Killer Main. Getting that out of the way... .
Nowhere was it said they are changing the base core of how Lucky Break works, in that it is one bank of time that runs while injured and pauses when not. All they said was they were lowering the total time down to 90 seconds. So that is a total of 90 seconds with no blood or scratch marks while injured, for the whole of the Trials. That's a long time, yes, but you've got three other Survivors you can be chasing instead of that one and even if they are all running it you've got a lot of information Perks and add-ons to help find them. Maybe Spies will actually be somewhat helpful now. This change also makes Lucky Break a great anti-tunnel Perk, because you can actually hide from the Killer now! So, no, this isn't a super broken change. Just keep injuring them and putting pressure elsewhere when you can't find them and soon enough their minuet and a half will run out and they won't be able to hide any more.
I fully agree that Demo should be able to undo his own portals basekit. Maybe standing on one and looking at it instead of another portal and holding M2 could cause him to rip up his own portal instead of moving to another, at half the speed it takes to place one down, inducing add-ons that reduce that. This should not be reliant on an add-on.
The two changes to Huntress add-ons are very lazy, and we've not seen the others yet. They did say they "did a pass" on them so some of the others are going to change as well. I do not have high expectations. The new Iridescent add-on is a joke, and an unfunny one at that and the Head change is just bare bottom lowest laziest thing they could ever do. But what do you expect from them? This is just how they are.
The amount of progress you get from a Great Skill Check is nice, but not over-powered. Combo it with Perks that care and one person can knock out a gen pretty fast yes, but every Survivor would need to be rocking the same load-out and if they are doing that they don't have B.T. or Lucky Break or... you get the point. Gens speeds are already pretty fast and this will make them ever so slightly faster but it'll still be limited by how many toolboxes they bring in and if they are lucky enough to find more.
-
With Haddonfield being in both of them, because it's half indoor buildings and half outside lawns. And maybe Springwood as well.
There will need to be more "indoor" maps though. Right now we have fifteen different Realms with only five of them being "indoor". Having an "indoor" offering that only picks from those five, maybe seven, maps would get old pretty fast.
Though I do like the idea of offering that nudge towards a range of maps instead of specific ones. I don't really hate the map offerings we have now, I understand why we have them, but it does get annoying being sent to Haddonfield or Ormond game, after game, after game in a row as Killer.
-
@Danoobiel said:
It's really bothering me too.
You are basicly playing chicken against other survs.
I think the challange should be about going back and saving teammates from hook while exit gates are open.
That would be healthier for the game.
There IS a Challenge for safely unhooking people during the E.G.C.! It also sucks! Because you have to not only reach the E.G.C. in the first place but someone else has to get downed and hooked AND you have to be the one to save them. Better hope the Killer isn't camping and grabs you when you go for the unhook or is has an active N.O.E.D. and just smacks the back of your head.
If I had to pick between, say, three safe E.G.C. unhooks and nine "other people exit" I'll take the "nine other people exit" one every single time. Because while theoretically I could get the first one in one game it'll probably take twice as long as the second.
And I'd take a super grindy protection hit challenge over either of them. Something that'd take at minimum five games to finish but doesn't involve the E.G.C. at all.
-
Well, your first problem is that you have cross-play on. Turn that off and you'll get better teammates. And be bale to tell them you need them to leave.
And if you find the queue times to be too long for when you normally play with cross play off you can just turn it back on when you don't need it off anymore. I have cross play off and don't really feel the times to be too bad.
Or you can find some people with SWF with, even if you don't use comms. By having them know they need to leave they will hopefully do so.
It's a sucky challenge because people don't tend to leave as soon as they should, but you have tools to make it easier you just need to use them. The main tool being telling people you need them to leave first.
-
I skipped this one last time it was here and haven't even tried the latest version. How ever I did get the "Repair Four Gens while running Dark Sense" and the key factor on how I got that is the same for this one.
Preamble: I've heard some people on console talk about how they can chat with other console people but I'm a PC player so I don't know about that. But my suggestion is turn off cross-play for a bit, if you normally have it on, so if your platform has it you can chat with all the other Survivors and tell them you are running that challenge and "If they will please 99 gens if Ruin is no active". Most people will probably agree and ask for help with their own challenges or dailies
Getting every else in your solo queue to agree to help is only one factor though, the other of course being the Killer and if they even have a terror radius most of the time. Maybe you'll get lucky and get No Heal Doctor or even luckier, a farmer. Maybe it'll be a Jump Scare Meyers. If you get the other players to agree to just 99 the gens instead of finishing them then all you really need to do is follow the Killer around as best you can until you can pop some gens around them.
@TheRockstarKnight has a really good suggestion of running Red Herring alongside Stakeout though. Red Herring will probably only work once, maybe twice, I know I tend to ignore the loud noise notices on gens after the first two times I go to one to find no scratch marks at all. But with you being there they may think you're just bad at skill checks.
I don't think any of the challenges should ever be one trial, unless it is something you have full control over and is a low number. But we're stuck with what they give us and there are so many other things to get changed first we have to prioritize because it takes so long to get even simple things.
-
@GeneralV said:
I disagree. In my opinion, there is one big difference between DS Nerf and Hex;Ruin nerf, which is the counterplay.
I wholeheartedly believe that Old Ruin was better than New Ruin, because of its global effect. With New Ruin, you can make 1 gen loose a lot of progress, which is great. But it is one, just one gen. Old Ruin affected every single generator in the map, meaning that you could actually chase people without worrying about 3 gens being completed. You still had to effectively pressure gens, of course, but it was much more manageable.
However, both Old Ruin and New Ruin are Hex perks. If you cleanse the Totem, they are gone.
With DS, however, there was nothing you could do. Imagine the following scenario: you are playing your favourite killer on Gas Heaven, and you see a recently unhooked survivor, which happens to be the obsession, working on a generator. What do you do?
-Attack them and slug? Unbreakable and they are up again.
-Grab then? DS
-Leave them be? Gen gets done.
The recent DS nerf is a good thing because it removes the full invincibility. But it targeted a perk which had zero counterplay to begin with, unlike Ruin.
In conclusion, the DS nerf was needed because there was nothing you could do about the perk. The Ruin nerf was not needed because Hex perks have counterplay.
Old D.S. did have counterplay though: slugging. The problem was not with D.S. but D.S. alongside Unbreakable or, in some cases, Soul Guard. And even being able to pick themselves up off the ground doesn't matter as you shouldn't be hovering around them while they are on the ground anyways. Slug and move on to the next nearby gen but be ready to come back either as soon as they are off the ground or after you are sure the D.S. timer is out.
My main problem with old D.S. was is that the game is so buggy I'd go for an M1 at a gen, an unhook, or a vault and I'd get a grab instead. And then get hit with D.S. because the game gave me the wrong action. Same thing with running Save The Best For Last, you go for a grab and get nothing or get an M1 hit.
As for all the people who are complaining about the nerf they were the ones who abused it, and if not then relied on it far too much. And for the ones saying "more people tunnel now", that's true but not to the level they are thinking, they are just seeing it more often now than before because they are getting more matches without an Obsession, because they don't run D.S. anymore of course, so all the Killers who already tunneled in that case now get to tunnel them. The core of D.S. has not changed, and there were Killers who didn't respect it before so of course they won't respect it now.
-
@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094902#Comment_2094902
If they are running Dead Hard and Spirint Burst together, that mean those survivors doesnt know this game. Because both perk have same counter: Exhaustion. So they wasted one perk slot. That is why those perks have same counter because if they are use together, killers cant stop survivors. Simple and fair.
For gens. Same issue. Ruin is strong perk. Pop also strong perk. And they both workes when you use them. Ruin has counter, it is hex. And pop has counter with time limit after hook someone. And they cant use together. Because if they would, games would end before gens done. So survivors will lose most of games. Because killers will defend gens more easly. That is why some perks cant use together. That is same for both roles.
So i am glad you are not dev because clearly you dont know anything about "balance". Maybe you dont know but let me tell you: DbD is not single player game, multiplayer game. Survivors also real players. They are also playing for win. They also need win chance. If you wanna control game you have to play good. If survivors play better than you, they will control gens and game and you will lose. If you play better, you will control game and gens and survivors will lose. Simple again.
Before you call me as "Typical Survivor Main" let me say, i am killer main but playing both roles. % 60 - 70 i am playing killer, red ranks btw. Sometimes i am losing gens and game. Sometimes i am winning game and gens. Maybe you will surprise but this game can finish before last gen done and sometimes i am doing that. You are just need to play careful. If you chasing really good survivor and he wasting your time, dont focus on him. And defend your gen. So many times killers loses gens and game for that. Remember. Killer has to defend gens.
If you have better ideas i can listen but strong perks cant use together. You think devs cant think that? Those perks have counters because they needing. That is why devs made this perks like this. That is for balance. So good day Sir, see you later.
I'm a computer programmer who has taken professional courses in game deign because I want to be a professional game programmer and designer someday, so I do know a few things about game design and game balance. That said I am still new to Dead By Daylight and am still learning how all the various parts interlock and interact with each other. But I sincerely believe that being able to use Pop on a gen that is regressing because of Ruin would not be overpowered any more so than Pop is already a powerful Perk. Taking 25% off of what is there and than having the 0.5 c per second kick in is not anymore painful as Survivor than seeing a gen get hit with Pop already is.
I'm a Killer Main, but I play Survivor as well. As Survivor I always check for Ruin at the start of the match and if it is in play I tend to have either Detective's Hunch or Small Game so I'll go look for it when I can. And even if I don't have either perk or a map I'm always on the lookout for totems. I'm a "Do bones" sort of person.
Both Ruin and Pop give Survivors reasons for finishing gens instead of just 99ing them. When neither is in play I will often 99 gens so as to give the Killer a false sense of game progression. If one gen is repaired and three are sitting at 99 most Killers will play as if there are four gens left to finish instead of only one because they can only keep track of so many things so maybe they'll know that one gen is at 99 waiting to be finished but not know about the other two. I've had this done to me before as Killer. It is not a common tactic but is a viable one when you can pull it off.
Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to Pop is that you need hooks for it to work. If Ruin is doing its job and keeping gens down and you're keeping Survivors off of them but can't catch the Survivors then Pop wont even be a factor. But Ruin is slower than repair, and as Killer you can't be in four places at once so unless half or more of the Survivors are being potatoes they will be making progress on gens. But if you do catch someone and Ruin is still up you should be able to use the other Perk you used a slot for. Pop and Ruin are normally run together because of how fragile Ruin can be at times and without some kind of gen regression perk it's almost impossible to win as Killer against even half-way decent Survivors let alone the really good ones.
Ruin and Overcharge would be more of a danger, but even then you'd have to take the time to kick a gen and two seconds is a long time. Using three Perks to have Brutal Strength would make for a good combo but leaves you only one slot for an information or other useful Perk. Ruin plus Oppression would be very conditional, since those gens are already regressing because of Ruin the only thing you'd get from that combo would be every so often having someone fail the skill check. You'd be better served by running Ruin with Surveillance if you wanted the information.
The core issue is that basekit gen regression is so weak that as Killer you need a perk dealing with gen regression it if you want to have a chance of winning against the better Survivors. It's why Ruin and Pop are both meta perks, and why they are run together so often even though they have anti-synergy with each other. As long as Ruin is up you can't use Pop but Ruin goes down early so often it's very inconsistent on how long you'll even have it. So being able to kick an already regressing gen would be very conditional on having an active Ruin and an active Pop or an active Ruin and Overcharge, neither scenario is overly bad for the Survivors because as long as Ruin is active they need to either just finish the gen, making Pop useless, or not even bother working on it until they find the totem.
@Grimmy_Bluues said:
Imo, they should do one of three things.
- increase base regression speed
- Make all kicks apply 2.5-5% regression
- Survivors have to work for at least 5 seconds before regression stops (progress would still be gained, but letting go would start regression again.)
I personally would like base regression upped to 0.5 c per second, what max rank Ruin does at the moment. Ruin can then be tweaked so it only applies 50%/75%/100% normal regression while active instead of 100%/150%/200% like it is now, or maybe even slightly buffed to be 100%/125%/150%. 0.75 c per second compared to 1 c per second is pretty strong but Ruin is so inconsistent and easily removed at times it should be strong and force Survivors to cleanse it if they want to win.
At most I think a kick should apply 1%, maybe 2% instant regression. A minor amount that would none-the-less make Survivors think twice about doing a "tap" and not quite enough that it is worth dropping chase to kick again. Surge does 8%, and that is both conditional on getting a down close enough to the gen and the Perk being off cooldown. Overcharge failed checks do 5% so anything basekit should not be as good as a dedicated Perk, even if that Perk is somewhat conditional.
Really Overcharge is an "anti-tap" Perk more so than anything else. Because you can stop the regression but you're taking a good chunk out of total progress already there if you do. Or you are getting M1ed or even grabbed if you stick around for the skill check. It's always so fun watching a gen explode because a Survivor "tapped" it while I was chasing them and they had a good enough lead they felt safe doing so.
As for the final idea I don't think it should be so long, because I'd actually like to be able to kick the gen again if I'm running Pop or Overcharge or Oppression. Even just a second would be enough to prevent "tapping", which is my main issue on how weak kicking gens is along side how 0.25 c per second just doesn't really do anything for the two second hit investment.
@ukenicky said:
It seems silly we're complaining about gen tapping being OP and unfun when literally the same can be said about camping/tunneling.
Both are valid strategies on both sides I don't see much point in complaining since these things are most likely always going to exist and be "problems".
Because that's a whataboutism. This is a thread about basekit gen regression, not a thread about camping or tunneling. There are many threads about both of them to talk about it in that it doesn't need to be brought into an unrelated discussion.
It could be argued that Killers camp and tunnel because they feel they have to because they have no other option to deal with fast gen speeds when the Bloodweb has been unkind to them and they don't have any relevant Perks. Getting one person out of the game right away means one less person working on gens after all. So if basekit gen regression was buffed in some way then maybe some of them would stop doing that sort of thing. I tend to ask people why they camp and tunnel after game and have gotten told "Because gens" various times. Some just say "Why not?" of course but for some it does honestly seem to be because they don't think they stand a chance without doing it.
Until changes are made to actively punish the actions we'll never stop everyone from doing it of course, and even then unless the punishment is literally "can't win the game" they'll still do it anyways. Some people are just going to camp or tunnel because they hate other people having fun, that's how they get their fun and don't care about other's people fun, or whatever other petty reason they have for doing scummy things. Same is true for all of the toxic and ######### things Survivors can do to bully the Killer, but that's more whataboutism that isn't even somewhat tangentially related to the topic here.
Are camping and tunneling problems? Yes, they are. But so is basekit gen regression and how Survivors being able to "tap" a regressing gen means the Killer wasted their time hitting that gen for no gain at all. All of the problems with basekit in the game need to be talked about, and talked about often and talked about loud until they get changed into something better for all players, no matter if they play Survivor or Killer.
-
@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094858#Comment_2094858
This is same like why i cant use Spirint Burst and Dead Hard together. Because combo is so strong. So again, No! Strong perks cant use together. And you know Ruin and Pop cant use together. So dont use it. Simple.
This is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes Sprint Burst and Dead Hard are both "distance perks" and Ruin and Pop are "gen regression perks" but they work in very different ways. And for the record I have seen some Survivors run both Sprint Burst and Dead hard together and make it work out for them because they are just that good. And some combinations of Head On and some other Exhaustion perk for that extra spiciness.
Ruin has generators regress at 0.5 c per second, where as Survivors repair at 1 c per second. Pop takes off a flat 25%, no matter how much progression there is. Being able to Pop a 99ed gen that is regressing from Ruin wouldn't be "so strong". It'd be strong yes, but not overpowered. Since you only get one Pop per hook and have to work for hooks most of the time Ruin would probably run down the gens anyways so Pop wouldn't be much of a factor. But having the option would be nice and not broken. Pop without Ruin is a flat 25% off the top then it starts the normal 0.25 c per second regression and that's strong enough on it's own. Adding Ruin just adds that extra 0.25 c per second which if Survivors are on gens anyways doesn't matter much.
Overcharge plus Ruin would be downright broken if Overcharge got applied via Ruin, but it doesn't. It isn't applied the the three other gens Oppression makes starts regressing, only the gen you kick. Being able to run Overcharge in combination with Ruin could allow for some fun combos, and not the broken sort like old Undying and Ruin but actual "I need to be aware this can happen but don't know if it will" type of moments when a Survivor comes to a regressing gen and they know both Ruin and Overcharge are in play but don't know if the Killer has been by to kick this particular gen or not.
@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094854#Comment_2094854
How is it under the survivors control if I camp the cluster from the beginning of the game?
Because if they see you doing that and know what is going on they can opt to force the issue now instead of waiting till end game. If you patrol a tight set of three or four gens when no gens have been completed the Survivors can exclusively work on those three or four gens and ignore the other three that are not close together. Doing so when they have not been hit or hooked at all is really smart.
Will most groups do this? No. But they can, and some do.
I do not deny that a three gen is strong. I do not deny that it is a three gen no matter how many other gens have been finished. But in the end the way you deal with a three gen is the same no matter the state of the other generators and when that three gen is dealt with is always controlled by the Survivors.
Most teams will wait till it's the last gen left to finish. Some teams will try and break it earlier. Either way it was the Survivors who controlled if it got broken or not, with the Killer only influencing their decision.
Most of the game is controlled by the Survivors, and how they react to what the Killer does. There are four of them and only one Killer so it makes sense that the majority of what happens in the game is driven by their actions. If a Killer tries and force a three gen at end game the Survivors have the choice of letting it happen or not letting it happen, but that is a choice they have. You as Killer choose to stay at these particular gens for most if not all of the game, the Survivors choose to not force the issue early and did the other four gens first. Or they didn't and forced you to move beyond your tight patrol or actually finished one of the gens in exchange for a hook or two.
At the end of the day the game is all about chains of choices. What Killer you chose to play as, what add-ons and offering you bring, what Perks and how you play. Those are all your choices and the reactions to them that the Survivors make are all their choices. But for all that you can choose to try and force a three gen the Survivors have to allow it to happen. Now if they'll succeed in trying to break it or not is another matter, it could very well lead to an early 4k if they don't play well enough. But it wasn't the fact you tried to set up a late game three gen that got you the 4k, it was the fact the Survivors tried to break that three gen and failed.
A three gen is a three gen is a three gen, but it only stays a three gen because Survivors opt to not break it. Doesn't matter if they do so because they don't see it or if they don't try because the Killer is always around it. Smart Survivors will look out for three gens at the very start of the game and work to break them early no matter where the Killer is.
It's a good thing smart Survivors are so rare.
-
@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094802#Comment_2094802
This can abuse. So no thank you Sir.
What's to abuse? There is nothing given to the Killer for kicking a gen without a Perk other than starting regression. A lot of people run both Ruin and Pop because Ruin gets found so easily so they need a backup because gens go by that fast. But while Ruin is still in play Pop is useless as it is right now. Without an active Pop and not having Overcharge there is no reason to kick an already regressing gen. And Pop has limited uses. The only "problem" would be Ruin plus Overcharge and Overcharge only works once per Survivor, or less if they are on coms. And even with Overcharge you'd still have to kick the gen already regressing via Ruin to apply the effect. All Overcharge really does once Survivors are aware of it is prevent "tapping" to stop regression. Which doesn't happen if Ruin is in play.
So, again, I ask what can be abused by being able to kick an already regressing gen?
-
@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094750#Comment_2094750
I'm just gonna go ahead and point out that your "counter" is just how you deal with a 3-gen to begin with.
Yes. Three-gens are powerful to be sure, and not to be underestimated, but they are always in the Survivors control no matter what the Killer does. It's just for the most part four randos aren't going to be corradiated enough to deal with it before it comes down to the last three gens.
@MerryJuanNa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094750#Comment_2094750
I think your forgetting about the flat out instant regression you get when kicking a gen, which is around 10% so if a survivor were to just keep "tapping" the gen then you only need to kick it a few times to fully regress the gen, however i do agree that getting three gen'd i purely the survivors fault, however the killer can influence it, like how as a survivor, your not going to go for a gen that you cant necessarily finish without risking getting 4k'd
I wish I lived in the world that had your version of the game. In the version of the game I play there is no "instant regression" without running Pop Goes the Weasel. If gens actually lost any progression on being kicked then all the times I've kicked the same gen over, and over, and over, and over again would actually show something for it instead of all four cylinders still going at full speed while all four Survivors danced around me to keep tapping it when I moved to hit or grab one of them.
I've also been in a lot of farming scenarios where I alternate between kicking a gen and letting it be repaired and there is no visible change to the pistons unless we let it run down for a while doing other things, like hitting and healing.
And while I know wikis are somewhat unreliable the section on damaging generators doesn't mention anything about it either: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Generators#Damaging_Generators
If there was an actual instant regression for basekit kicking then Survivors wouldn't bother "tapping" in the middle of chase because even a 5% drop of progression would be worth dropping chase to kick it again. 10% per kick would be insanely oppressive.
Pop does 25%, Surge does 8%, Overcharge does 5% if they miss the skill check. 10% for spending two seconds doing the action would be amazing and Killers would be doing it all the time and Brutal Strength would be run more often because of it.
-
@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094536#Comment_2094536
If a killer is camping the same little cluster of gens, it doesn't matter how many other gens there are that are unfinished.
I know. I do it all the time. I learned it from Azarovs.
Even in this case the Survivors can stop the three-gen from happening. They ignore the gens outside of the three-gen the Killer is hovering around and work in pairs to hit two of them at the same time. The Killer can't keep pressure on both gens at once because of how bad regression is, so without Ruin one of those two gens is going to finish and unless the Survivors mess up there is nothing the Killer can really do to stop it unless they are just that much more skilled than all of the Survivors.
Is this something that is likely to happen with four randoms? No, not really. But is it possible if those four randoms know what's-what? Yes. I've been one of those four randoms and was able to literally point out a three-gen to others and work together to break them and have had it happen to me as Killer when when I'm guarding that three-gen harder than a dragon does its horde. Though I also freely admit to not being all that skilled at this game, on either side.
A three-gen is always controlled by the Survivors, they just have to work together enough to keep the Killer from defending at least one of them long enough by going after at least two of them if not all three depending on a lot of factors, such as location of gens and who the Killer is and what add-ons and perks they have and so on. In all my hours of play and watching others play I have only ever seen a grand total of three sets of three-gens that were close enough together for any Killer to easily defend, and one of them was around a tree in the middle of even then you didn't have true line-of-sight on all three at once. Still, even then, if done right one of those deity level gens can still get finished if the Killer steps too far away to go for an "easy down" and misjudges things.
On the main topic. I think base gen regression is a joke. As a Killer I hardly ever bother with it unless I want the Brutality points because I'm not getting in M1s for what-ever reason. The fact that it takes two seconds to start a 0.25% per second regression is laughable. That it can be undone in only a fraction of a second is just insulting.
I like the idea that a Survivor has to spend at least a full uninterrupted second on the gen before it stops regressing. This means that they can't just "tap" the gen while in chase and if the Killer comes back around in that second they don't have the kick the gen again to get it doing down once more. But it's also half the time it takes to start regression so if the Killer takes the time to kick another gen the previous gen they kicked can be started back up with no problem and even gains 0.75% percent progression in those two seconds. That's not even accounting for travel time between the two gens for the Killer. I think it's the most balanced way they could do it without it being oppressive to Survivors.
-
The one buff I really wanted was for Main Event to not be "use-it-or-lose-it" like it is right now. I had not considered making him move super fast while using it. Becoming a 120% speed knife machinegun would actually make it worth being so limited.
My main problem is that unless I 99 the power and stop throwing knives all together I am very rarely in a position where Main Event is useful because the Survivor I am chasing is at a wall or other cover when it procs. But by moving super fast you can get around obstacles to get line-of-sight and it stops a simple L-wall from making his super power a super dud. It'd actually force Survivors to keep moving and find new cover instead of just playing around one or two walls because they know slow a.f. Trickster can't catch up to them.
So, yeah, I do like this idea if no other change was made to Main Event as it is right now.
-
One the the main things I wanted was for Main Event to not be on a timer. I want to be able to use it when I want, not when it just so happens to become available. The very nature of the knives and how you gain Main Event charge means that while you have some control over it you don't have full control. You can "99" the power and then you become an M1 Killer until such a time that you think throwing one more knife and going Main Event will help. His super power M2 encourages you to not use his base level M2, which is very counterintuitive.
Also having any Killer with a "use-it-of-lose-it" power sets a VERY worrying precedent. All other Killers are in control of their power, with Plague having a very rare edge case of her last fountain being used but even that can be worked around if she drinks from at least one fountain when she notices there is only one clean on left or even used to her advantage to get Corrupt Purge in the middle of doing something else. Trickster being the only one with "use-it-or-lose-it" is very unintuitive if you've ever played Oni, who is the most direct comparison, with Shape being a close second. But with Shape you can control when you go from 99% to 100% and his M2 isn't a ranged attack and it doesn't start dropping if you never actually go T3.
If I had to pick only one buff for Trickster to get it would have been this one, being in full control of Main Event. And it is not one of the things being done so I'm super sad about that.
All of the changes other than Iridescent Photocard are good changes and will make him better yes but are not my main problem with him. As for Iridescent Photocard it shouldn't be able to wound. The whole reason to run Photocard is you make Survivors go from Healthy to Dying in one M1, it being able to go from Healthy to Injured defeats that point. Now if they made it instead that with Iridescent Photocard your knives can make Survivors go from Injured to Dying that'd be fine, or even just while in Main Event it is ignored, but that is not what I think of when I read what they said it'll do and because I have no faith in the devs to do "smart things" it is not what I expect them to do. With the other changes Iridescent Photocard as it is now is more viable, because the main problem was being close enough to M1 while they were Exposed so with less slowdown over all that'll be easier.
-
"Allow players to select up to TWO challenges at once, as long as ONE challenge is exclusively actionable to survivors and ONE challenge is exclusively actionable to survivors."
I think your "survivors" at the end of this sentence was meant to be "killers".
As someone who has multiple times gone into matches with no Archive Challenge or the wrong type of Archive Challenge selected I fully endorse this idea. Being able to have both a Survivor and a Killer challenge running at the same time would save me time when I flip between the roles, which I often do to get in my "first game as" games of the night.
For the corollary it should be easy enough to "pulse" the Challenge bar in the lobby to show that, hey, something is wrong, you may want to fix it. And for the people who have finished all of the possible Challenges for their lobby they don't get the pulse.
The very nature of the Challenges means two things 1) they track what characters can do them, so they already know that if you're in the Survivor lobby with a Killer only Challenge selected that's not right and 2) if a Challenge has been finished or not since you can only do them once. With those two factors in play it's easy enough to set up what is needed to check what Challenge is selected, if it's viable and if not if there is a viable option or not.
If the game wasn't run on spaghetti code that is.
-
@Shenshen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2088765#Comment_2088765
"And by facecamping you get good Survivors who know how to deal with it to make the games go even faster, because good Survivors will finish gens against a facecamper" Nice, you found the counterplay to camping. If you are a good survivor you will manage to deal with face campers, it is not that hard. Sure it sucks for the camped person but the killer bought the game and he can play how he wants even if you don't like it. If face camping had no counterplay it would be an issue but it has, so it's fine. People also complain about sweaty survivors with BNP's, flash light clicking and teabagging but in the end, they bought the game and can play how they want. I understand you don't like it and that it's frustrating but BHVR will do nothing about camping any time soon. It might sound rude but as of right now, there are two options for you. Either you just accept that it is part of the game and deal with it, or stop playing. As I said, BHVR will do nothing about camping, they said it years back, there are clips where they say "We said it multiple times that camping is part of the game" I can even provide if you want. You don't have to respect someone who camps, you don't have to like it but it is what it is.
The problem with your "counter-play" of "just hit gens" is that it requires all of the non-hooked Survivors to do it. If even one person hovers around the hook waiting for the Killer to leave the other two won't get the gens done fast enough so what should have only been a 1K at most will probably turn into a 3K or 4K depending on if the Killer is super sweaty and slugs the third person or not and somewhat on where the Hatch spawns.
This is part of learning the game, sure. New players will want to go for saves, yes. But because of just how bad this game is at teaching new players anything and how a lot of people don't look up things outside of the game it leads to bad experiences and people stop playing. I was lucky enough to not have my very first game be against a face camper, but it was my first day of playing when it happened, fifth or sixth game maybe where I had the first one, then another after it, then a third in a row. Had those been my first three games I probably would have asked for a Steam Refund and never played again. There needs to be an actually helpful tutorial in the game for both Killers and Survivors. How to loop, as both sides, what to do if the Killer facecamps, what to do if Survivors bring flashlights or toolboxes and so on. The "How to Play" guides in the game are laughable right now.
And @Aquamarine also has a very good point in that the camped Survivor gets nothing for their time. OK, fair, they failed to loop properly and are getting punished for that by being hooked. But then the Killer not leaving and thus not giving them a chance to even play anymore is on the Killer and not them. The only reason for them to stick around and not just die on hook is to be a good team player and give everyone else a chance to get out. But not everyone is going to be a team player, they will just want to go on to the next game. If they were compensated with Chase points for the Killer sticking around then maybe more people will stay. It shouldn't ever be a lot of points, but as long as there is something to make sticking around for your teammates more worthwhile than "being a good sacrificial lamb" that'd help out a bit.
And on a final note the devs have said a lot of things, and have gone back on them. They said they wouldn't be changing the new U.I. when people complained about it. Not just that they were not going back to the old one but in not making any changes to what they had. But, oh, hey, they changed the new U.I. to be more like the old one than what they had originally done instead of sticking with that statement. That's the only example I've been around for and cared enough about to remember but I am sure there are others in the past or more recently. Like maybe Trickster buff since it has been announced they'll be making changes to him even though they released him as-is because whyevenP.T.B.?. If enough people complain about it for long enough, and it looks like it might cause actual monetary loses, then they'll change things. If facecamping becomes such a problem that enough people stop playing, and thus are no longer buying new D.L.C. or cosmetics, or new players just keep getting refunds, then you can bet your bottom dollar they'll change it. So, no, I won't accept "The devs have said-" as a valid response. The devs say a bunch of [bad word] all the time and then wind up eating crow for it later on.
-
@Shenshen said:
They get literally no points for the hook when they straight up face camp. When a killer is face camping he gives survivors pretty much a free escape. If you are efficient on gens, the killer will lose this round.
I'm tired of people always bringing it around to the points. Most people who facecamp don't care about the points. If you play Killer often enough, even just getting one or two kills you'll make points hand over fist. Even without chase, even without a lot of hits, even without using your power. The shear fact you can get games really fast as Killer the number of points you make per game may be low but you are getting so many games it doesn't matter. And by facecamping you get good Survivors who know how to deal with it to make the games go even faster, because good Survivors will finish gens against a facecamper.
So, no, "They don't get any points" isn't an answer, or even a factor. Nor is rank. Depip, black-pip, single or double pip are all non factors. Because, again, the facecamper doesn't care. All the facecamper cares about if getting their one, maybe two kills. What needs to happen is there has to be some punishment in the trial when it comes to facecamping. Not just in the game because that's what the points are about and the Chaser Emblem punishment for being near a hooked Survivor. It has to be related to the trial itself.
There needs to be something that actively punishes facecampers for doing so. We already have things that care about distance between players that are not attached to chase, so it is not like we can't check that. I think that it should be that if there is no other Survivor within say 26 meters of the hooked Survivor but the Killer is within that distance the hooked Survivor's hook counter doesn't go down, be it stage one or stage two. Doesn't matter if the Killer is Undetectable or not, if they are with-in that distance with no other Survivor the hooked Survivor can stay on that hook for literal hours and never progress.
This would fix the problem of Survivors looping the Killer near hook, like I have been told was the case in the Olden Days, because they are in the distance them being there is detrimental to the hooked Survivor.
One thing that would need to change is that other Survivors can't see hook progression of other Survivors. I think this would actually be beneficial overall because it would incentivize people to go rescue sooner rather than later. I've had a lot of games as Survivor where I waited on a gen as long as I could before going to save someone because I knew they could just keep mashing space and it wouldn't matter if I got there with only a fraction of a second left before the hug if I tap their waist before it happens. So not knowing how long someone else has on hook would make some interesting game-play decisions and allow them to make use of the now hidden information in various ways.
A lot of updates are about giving Survivors more information, but there are some things that by not knowing could make the game more fun over all. We should not be afraid of taking away information we do have in order to gain a better over all play experience. I know I'd give up hook timer and hook states being displayed if it meant never having to deal with another facecamper again in less than a heart beat. Shoot, I'd give up total gens repaired on top of those two if it meant not having to deal with that sort of Killer.
Your job is to kill the player characters, not the fun of the game. Facecamping kills fun and maybe one player character. Something needs to be done about it.
I say all of this as a Killer Main who plays Survivor because of The Archives and so on. I don't facecamp, and seeing other Killers do it makes me not respect them.
-
I got a Trickster daily as well, four max lacerations. I did it, getting only one hook the whole game because Survivors don't care if the Killer has any fun. I'm a rank 12 Killer.
You can do it in Red Ranks. Just don't expect to get any kills.
That's all it takes. Just never expect to kill anyone with Trickster.
-
@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2062690#Comment_2062690
Yup, Trick Blades and Edge of Revival (ricochet and shatter) should definitely get the Freddy "pallets or snares" treatment. Low rarity add-ons to switch between the two as they're his most fun add-ons that aren't even really powerful. Also think the Cut Thru U (pierce through blades) add-on should maybe be base-kit, as it's extremely rare that survivors will just be standing on top of each other for you to get any actual value from this add-on which is very rare.
The difference between Trickster and Legion in this regard with opening lockers is that Legion can actually still open lockers while in Frenzy without going into fatigue. Bubba on the other hand can still pressure survivors in lockers by bumping into it and forcing them to time their exit or risk being instantly grabbed, and even if they can't grab the survivor, they can still get a hit on them.
7 is mainly an issue for me because it seems especially harsh on the console side of things and also poorly contrasts with Plague's absence of the climb with her Purge. The two abilities are functionally pretty similar so I don't really see why Trickster needs to have a draw back when Plague, Huntress, and Deathslinger all don't have it.
You're right with 8. 6 may be a bit overkill and 7 sound fine when considering the movement speed increase and the single shot bonus.
Thanks for stopping in Vlad. :)
As an Ellet PC Gamer (tm) I don't really think of the console experience, so my condolences for the trials you must go through in that wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Jokes aside while we should indeed compared new Powers to old Powers I see the climb with Trickster's blades as part of the learning curve on Trickster. Knowing when to time your tantrum with Cannibal, Nurse's Blink window, Deathslinger range, Huntress pull and lead time, Blight distance for a bounce before the Rush ends, and so on. Having to deal with blade pull is all part of his learning process.
What really needs to be fixed to make the pull on the blades balanced is console latency and other console issues. Fix that and then it becomes part of the "learn this Killer" package instead of a hardware issue.
As someone who really enjoys his Dream Pallets having low rarity add-ons that change powers around is a win in my book. Everyone keeps calling for rebound to be base-kit but I've only played with shatter so I don't know which should be base and which should be the add-on. One idea I read that I liked was rebound base but they shatter if you hit the ground so just aiming at Survivor's feet won't work. If you did that then just remove the add-ons that make it bounce or shatter all together, or have a shatter add-on at a lower rarity that makes them shatter on any contact, including a Survivor, as well as the ground. I've also not run the pierce add-on yet but in my experience Survivors very rarely ever form a straight line. Even when someone is running behind someone else for protection hits they tend to stagger a bit and not be right behind slash in-front of each other.
-
I'm a Killer Main and I support the first suggestion.
I don't support the second one because, contrary to what some people might think, there are other perks besides D.S. that use the Obsession mechanic. Shocking, I know! Well, everyone knows about Object but Mettle of Man is a thing! It's a Perk in the game, really, I swear!
Jokes aside making it so there is an Obsession in every game means you have to think about all of the perks that obit around that mechanic, both Killer and Survivor.
-
Because of how bad the devs were in taking feedback I didn't buy the chapter, and just bought the characters with shards. Having said that before this whole debacle with the U.I. and the P.T.B. for all Kill I had just gotten into the game at the tail end of last year and I bought all of the D.L.C. up to that point other than the purely cosmetic charity bundle.
Had the devs done more to listen about the U.I. changes and about The Trickster I'd have gladly bought the D.L.C. instead of just the characters. But because they didn't listen I didn't buy.
I've been playing Trickster for about three hours now, started with no add-ons to get a feel for things. At first I thought his power was bugged, because no where in the description does it say you have a limited window to activate it and why would you ever put a limited window to activation in the first place? Because Behavior I guess. I only found out about this after looking to see if someone else had already made a bug report about it and found the thread on how it's not bugged at all. So I fully agree with number 3. I am getting punished for using my power to down people and having my secondary ability taken away from me because of it. What. Just, what.
I agree with numbers 2, 5, and 10 wholeheartedly. 2) Lower speed makes sense on the other Killers that have it but with Trickster his power isn't so much a "ranged power" as it is an "anti-loop" one. Being able to build up Laceration over short walls, pallets and windows is great but without the normal Killer speed you don't have any real threat unless Survivors play really badly. 5) Again, I am being punished for using my power. There have been times where I have activated it and started throwing and the Survivor jukes out of line of sight and because I can't stop throwing I fall behind. I've not really noticed number 4, why I didn't include it above, but maybe that's why I'm falling behind and not the auto throw. 10) It going down on it's own is just, why? Why. No other Killer has a Power that just... goes away if the Survivors wait long enough. Make it so they have to Mend for a short while to lower the meter. I don't care if they can do it by themselves with no Medkit or Perk, just anything other than it going down automatically.
I have no comment to make on number 1 because I've not used that add-on yet, only have one of them. I'd say either this or the shatter effect should be base kit instead of just having to hit with knives.
I don't really have a problem with number 6 because you can cancel your ability at any time, and picking up or opening lockers should probably cancel it. I see the lockers thing being a problem as you have to wait for the cooldown animation to finish but that's the same with Legion and Bubba so I don't really agree with number 6.
I've also not had a problem with number 7, it's just another factor to the skill in playing the killer, like you have to compensate for the pull on Huntress hatchets. I'd be fine without number 7 being done but I totally agree with number 9. Being skilled and hitting with single blades should be rewarded.
I don't know about 8. I've not had much trouble getting to eight hits and six seems like a bit much. I've used the add-on that makes it the "Laceration meter capacity" is lower but I'm not sure by how much, if it makes it seven or six knives to wound. Maybe drop it to seven base and keep the add-ons the same. Making it an odd number will also allow for interesting skill plays when running lower on knives. Unless you're using the plus fifteen add-on and are already at an odd base number. Also, going from eight to six while also doing suggestion 9 and having single shot knives count as two would be really powerful so it's probably one or the other and personally I'd rather have suggestion number 9 over 8.
In the end I'm just not having fun with Trickster. At all. So far maybe two of my games have come close to being fun but in the end I had no real pressure and didn't ever feel like I could win. The one game I was one hook away from a 4k wasn't even all that fun because I didn't use my power for much of it and really only got that close because Survivors kept hiding in the bushes in obvious walking paths so I literally kept bumping into them.
-
I try not to camp as any Killer, not even The Twins. The way I use The Twins is at a loop I'll place Charlotte near but not in danger of being hit by the pallet and pop Victor out. This makes the Survivor I'm chasing have to go to the next loop and if I'm on the correct side of the first loop they won't have the time before I can land a pounce on them.
It seems a lot of people really underestimate Charlotte's potential to body-block. I especially enjoy parking her in front of a one-man gen and using Victor to pressure the other two gens in my three-gen.
-
"Prefect game" from a Survivor point of view would mean, in order: 1) No one is ever downed, thus they can never be hooked, 2) Five generators get repaired, 3) All totems are cleansed, 4) Both Exit Gates are opened, 5) All chests are opened and every Survivor has an item, and 6) All four Survivors make it out out alive without ever having lost a chase and gotten injured.
Clearly you didn't play a "Perfect game" because condition number 3 wasn't meet. You just played a "Very Good" game and got the gens done fast.
The two perks I hate seeing most as Survivor are Franklin's Demise and NOED, and I always try and do my part to prevent NOED by cleansing any totems I come across. I pretty much run Detective's Hunch on every character that has it and if they don't then I'll run Small Game.
NOED is your punishment for focusing on gens and not doing totems when you're winning. When you've got four gens finished and no one has been hooked yet instead of just pounding out gen number five take some time to look around and find as many totems as you can. You don't even need to cleanse them right away if you have a good enough memory and can come back to them later. (I do not have a good memory, so I cleanse them when I find them if I can.) Then when you get that little HEXED status when someone is downed do a sweep of the bones you found and break the one now glowing.
And before you say anything about not being able to do all the totems as a solo player I play solo for the majority of my Survivor games, I, personally, have done all five totems in one game three times and gotten four of them twice. And every game I did so was because we were winning so hard against the Killer it wasn't even funny. I'm talking not even a single down at four gens done not funny. Because I had the time, and I looked for bones. No one was in danger of dying from being hooked unless the Killer facecamped. And if they did facecamp I had Borrowed Time to counter that so I did bones.
The games that NOED actually makes me upset are the ones where it's really close and we barely get the gens done only to be cut down short at the end. And even in those cases I take part of the responsibility that NOED is even a factor because I wasn't good enough to get away from the Killer so I could cleanse the bones.
Does NOED need a bit of a rework? Maybe, it's considered a crutch perk for a reason and it rewards bad gameplay choices on both the Killer and Survivors' parts. Is it overpowered? No, not at all.
-
Open the options menu, there is a panel on the left that shows the four Survivors in boxes. The top part of the box is their ?User Name and the lower part of the box is Survivor Character Name.
-
Added what it finds to a map that can track that sort of object would be fine, seeing the aura is a bit too much and too much like Detective's Hunch.
Personally if I was to buff Small Game I'd lower the cool down by two seconds, making it 13/10/8. When it goes off unless the totem or whatever is right out in the open from the angle I'm looking I won't find it and have to try and triangulate things and ten seconds is so long to wait to get another data point on where whatever I'm "pinging" is located.
-
@Baby_Victor said:
You know when a survivor drops a pallet early and points at you, your not allowed to break the pallet, you were actually stunned. Be sure to stand still the appropriate amount of seconds, and then you can resume chase.
I'm not sure what sort of scenario you're talking about here. In my experience I only ever always get stunned or we run around the damn thing nine times and it never gets dropped even when it should have been and now the Survivor is on the ground. You mean some Survivors actually drop them early?
No joking whenever I'm a Killer other than Deathslinger and sometimes Doctor, when people know how to play around his stun ability, you'd swear those pallets were epoxy bonded to the walls next to them for the amount of trouble it takes to get them to drop at times. And when I play as those two Killers pallets drop so early I'm not even in the same tile most times.
-
As long as a challenge doesn't have "within in a single trial" somewhere in it that means you can do it over the course of multiple games.
-
@Eninya said:
As a killer, I wish the stupid aura bubble didn't block vision around the area.
As a survivor, that bubble never works for me. lol
This, so very much this. That bubble has caused me no end of grief as a Killer.
-
@Clünge said:
The amount of matches I'm in where someone actually successfully uses a key is incredibly low. Probably less than 5% (1 in 20 matches)
The amount of matches where multiple survivors escape through the hatch is even less.
As a killer, you can see the item the survivor brings into a match. Then if they get lucky and find one in a chest, you can see the item in their hand. You can then adjust strategy accordingly.
Unless you're having key / hatch / escape matches every other match then it isn't a problem
I just want to touch on the "can see items in lobby" portion, because as it is right now Survivors can swap characters last moment and as such give the Killer very little warning about what is being brought in, none at all if the Killer player is distracted and not watching at that moment. I've had a lot of people swap last second into Flashlights and Keys and it is really frustrating when that happens.
@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2024274#Comment_2024274
I disagree with the chest part because keys are “items”. I’ve been running plunders more because it gives me a greater chance of finding a key. And I can have a backup plan if my team isn’t gonna reach the endgame.
As I said I don't agree that Keys shouldn't be found in chests, I just think their percentage chance of being found could be lower. They are currently the seconds lowest item at 7% default, with Maps being the lowest at 2%. I think dropping them down to 5% and upping Maps to 4% could be a good idea.
I've escaped via Hatch from a Key I found in a chest while on death hook and two other people alive. All the gens had been finished and I used myself as bait to lead the Plague away from the others so they could get out as well so I get that finding a Key in a chest can be super exciting at times but as someone who plays more Killer than Survivor I can understand why the Killers who care about 4ks find Keys showing up midgame to be annoying. And on my Survivor side I'd rather have a Medkit or Toolbox over a Key most times and am pretty much disappointed every time I see a Key in the box. I play solo and most of my games rarely ever get to the point a Key would be useful so that's part of it.
@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2024274#Comment_2024274
This achivement would still be possible all 4 survivors would need to bring a key and escape (which should be the requirement rn anyway not 4 people escape in 1 key). They are allowed to change achivements not names of those achivements though.
Point of order: there would only need to be three Keys, as I said in my post. If only one Survivor can get out via the Hatch per Key then the first three would need Keys but the last one would get the Hatch opened automatically. Unless they changed that part, and the Hatch doesn't open for the last person if it had been opened via a Key before which is a really bad idea because that just screws the last person and from what I've heard the whole point of the Hatch in the first place was to give the last person a chance to escape.
As it is the achievement is still really though to get solo. You have to have a Key and keep everyone alive for five gens. All it takes is the Killer tunneling out one person and whoopsie no achievement. The game I had got it in was rough, three of us were on death hook and had the Killer been more of a [bad word] we'd not have been able to get it at all. And I constantly have games where Killers face camp and tunnel someone and other games where even if that isn't the case people kill themselves on first hook or miss their button mashing in struggle and so on. Just having all four people alive with five gens done is already so hard there doesn't need to be a three item requirement as well.
For people who care about getting a 4k the main problem is that more than one person can get out via the Hatch by ignoring the gens. You don't need to make it so it's only one person per Key but make it so that the Hatch isn't even a factor if there is more than one person alive and the gens aren't finished.
-
@TheArbiter said:
They are reworking keys, and I would not be surprised if that is one of the changes made
This is to both you and the OP: this change will not happen.
The reason? The achievement "Where Did They Go?!?", which requires that all four Survivors make it out through the Hatch in a trial. I, personally, already have this achievement from a lucky break in one game. According to various achievement tracking places anywhere between 5.3 and 8.9 percent of people who play the game have this achievement, with Steam itself saying 6.6%. I do not expect them to make a change that makes it so this achievement will require three Keys.
Right now the Hatch has some really funky math to it: "Does ((Number of survivors alive + 1) = (number of repaired generators)? If so spawn closed Hatch". So if four Survivors are still alive it takes five gens, if three are alive four gens and so on till you get to only one alive which just ignores the math and spawns an open Hatch.
The idea I like best and the one that I think is most likely to happen is that Keys themselves won't be changed but how the Hatch spawns will be. Instead of the above math there are two conditions that will spawn the Hatch: "Five generators repaired OR only one Survivor left alive in the trial". This will prevent three or two people from getting out via the Hatch while ignoring their Primary Win Condition: the generators.
If you are the sort of Killer who cares about 4ks then having all four Survivors still alive when they repair the last gen such a change won't really be much different than it already is, excluding N.O.E.D. cases and maybe a few other not so common Perk and Power combos. But if you get to the point where you've got four people alive and all five gens are done you've basically already lost anyways so them getting out via Hatch or Exit Gate is a moot point.
The main problem with Keys and the Hatch as it is now is that it allows two or three Survivors to get out while they ignore the last gen, making any work you put into a stable three-gen useless and any sort of late game planning worthless. By forcing them to finish five gens if they want to use that Key it means you can actually plan ahead for it and have viable counter play against the Key without having to run Franklin's.
To be thorough the idea I like second best is that you can't open the Hatch instantly with a Key, but have to take a few seconds to open it. The same time as with a chest, with no Perks buffing this time. Time spent unlocking the Hatch stays added to the total just like a chest if interrupted no matter what Survivor comes back to it later or what Key they use.
The third idea I like the least is that you can't find Keys inside of chest in the Trial. I think Survivors should have the chance of finding one, but maybe work the numbers a bit so they are less common than they already are so dedicated Looter Builds aren't pulling them so much.