TAG
TAG
About
- Username
- TAG
- Joined
- Visits
- 9,205
- Last Active
Comments
-
Felt compelled to come back briefly just to reply to this one, lol.
Daleks and Cybermen are infinitely more iconic to Doctor Who IMO than the Weeping Angels. I would make the Killer Davros and have his power involve Daleks. Could also do something involving The Master (Missy?) instead. But I would definitely not consider Weeping Angels above all those.
-
Personal opinion: Losing the Jigsaw Box auras is a really significant change because the Pig is no longer able to make reads on cutting off Survivors while gen patrolling and is going to struggle with punishing Survivors who choose to get greedy with the Jigsaw Boxes. Survivors can now feel much more comfortable with ignoring the Jigsaw Boxes until the timer starts (or searching one box and then ignoring the rest until the timer starts), which I think is a noticeable gut punch to her stalling abilities. Amanda's Secret was by far the worst add-on in her kit, and they took the downside of it and made it base kit. The increased timer sucks and exacerbates this problem, but I think it is a minor nerf compared to losing the Box auras.
Base kit combat straps is nice, to be fair. Crouched movement speed increase I think is negligible because the ideal use of crouching will still be to fire off an ambush at a loop (which, to be fair, is better now). Decreasing the hit and miss endlag for ambushes is also okay but I think will still end up being negligible. I think whether this ends up being a buff or a nerf overall depends on how impactful the increased ambush duration ends up being. My gut feeling says it's overall a nerf because 1) I don't believe the increased duration will do enough to mitigate making a bad guess at a loop 2) Pig still has zero answer to pre-dropping the pallet.
Also, +1 to who thought buffing the Huntress was a good idea?
-
@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624374#Comment_3624374
which is absurd
I'll have a killer on video humping me under a hook til I bleed out and will get the usual 'slugging is not a bannable offense' ok but I think this beyond slugging, it's just flat out griefing and keeping me hostage
bhvr has bots for support who read the same prompt
It is by definition not hostage-taking. Hostage taking explicitly requires the game to go on indefinitely for super long periods of time. Bleeding out takes four minutes. There is no scenario where bleeding out by itself is a valid reason for being reported.
-
@GeneralV said:
I like Pig, always have.
But I do remember when she was an endgame monster, and I wish that hadn't changed. Pig got unnecessarily nerfed many times, and it was sad to watch.
It still bothers me to this day that they had a very reasonable problem they wanted to solve (Reverse Bear Trap timer + End Game Collapse Timer = death sentence), there was a very reasonable solution to that problem (pause the End Game Collapse Timer while one or more Survivors are wearing Reverse Bear Traps), but instead of the reasonable solution, they opted for the heavy-handed solution and neutered her endgame viability.
-
@xEa said:
I like the Pig, on both sides. Overall she is in a fine spot. Most people think Pig is trash but often forget that she has the best basekit slowdown in the game. If they want to buff her stealth and her ambush, she has to receive a nerf in that regard.
Out of curiousity: If you mained The Pig, what do you think about Chucky? He is kinda like her, but on steroids. Minus the slowdown of course.
She does have good slowdown (at least, ever since she got the buff to her Trap consistency), but the problem for me is that her slowdown is 100% reliant on winning chases, which would be completely reasonable if her power wasn't one of the worst anti-loop/chase powers in the game IMO paired with one of the worst stealth powers in the game IMO. If you aren't playing against potatoes, you are going to struggle hard with accessing the good part of her power.
At this point, I would gladly accept a nerf to her traps in exchange for her ambush attack not being completely reliant on opponents playing badly. I've actually put the Pig on the backburner in favor of Chucky myself because I think Chucky outclasses the Pig entirely. As much as I enjoyed some good 'ol headtrap shenanigans over the years, they're not worth dealing with the Ambush feeling so shoddy when I can just use perks to provide slowdown to Chucky. Here's hoping the tweaks the Pig is planned to receive will make her Ambush feel better to use, even if her Traps end up being nerfed a bit in the process.
-
@ohheyitsbobcat said:
Pig has the DC build; Ultimate Weapon, Hex: FtD, Infectious, 4th perk here with Crate of Gears and Tampered Timer.
Chucky don't got that.
Admittedly Ultimate Weapon on Pig feels super dirty to me, even as someone who lives for RBT kills.
@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/396970/should-i-drop-pig-for-chucky
Its probably partly as well because chucky is a much stronger killer than pig, there is also wraith or wesker if you like lunging/dashing.
I've had my eye on Wesker, not gonna lie.
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584670#Comment_3584670
Pig's much more than just memes and headpops.
Chucky might be stronger but he doesn't have the strategically component of pig. Chucky is pure chase with stealth. Pig is stealth, weak chase and strategy. Chucky is also 4.4 and Pig 4.6.
Two very different killers.
People don't have to be bound to one killer. You can have the combined meme power of both Chucky and Pig combined for meme-supremacy.
Also, nobody can deny the fact that Pig is the best killer in the game, so there is that. 🐽
What is the "strategic" component that Pig has that Chucky lacks? That sounds like a very vague concept that doesn't adequately explain what meaningfully makes the Pig distinct from Chucky.
Is it trying to catch Survivors searching Jigsaw Boxes? Is it trying to mindgame opponents at pallets?
-
@Dreamnomad said:
Why would you even ask a bunch of strangers? Do whatever you want. It's your life.
For the same reason a person would ask a close confidant: Because they would like other people's input. Given how none of my friends play Dead By Daylight, I only have strangers who do play it to turn to.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584034#Comment_3584034
#5 is wrong. chucky has like 1 second delay before his stealth begins. #4 is wrong. pig has 2 second missed cooldown. chunky 2.25 but pig also has add-on called workshop grease and Shattered Syringe to reduce it by 50% for 1 second cooldown.
Chucky has better stealth, better 1vs1 due to pallet vaulting and a better dash. Pig has game delay and potencial mori's. ultimately it depends whether you play pig because of traps or you play pig because of ambush dash.
Fair enough, I was wrong on #5, though it's still lesser than Pig's 1.3 seconds to crouch and 5 seconds for the TR to disappear. As for #4, I don't know how to explain it, maybe I misrepresented what I was trying to say, but Chucky is able to recover from a missed dash attack FAR better than the Pig. I think this is due to his movement speed when he misses the attack. You miss with the Pig's dash, and you have given advantage to the opponent. You miss with Chucky's dash, you are able to quickly recover and continue the chase or even still land a hit if you missed by a small enough margin. At worst, I didn't convey my point correctly, but I'll need to see video demonstrating that Chucky is punished harder for missing a dash attack than Pig to concede on #4.
I play Pig for the RBTs. That does not matter because you are not using RBTs unless you get downs, which necessitates the use of dashing unless you are playing vs. potatoes. If her ambush game is lacking enough that you struggle to get the downs that allow you to use the RBTs, then the RBTs are not enough of a draw.
-
-
@BlightedDolphin said:
I guess it depends on why you play Pig.
Do you play her mainly for Ambush? Then Chucky is better for you.
Do you want access to built-in slowdown with RBTs? Then Pig is better.
Can you deal with playing a 110 killer? If not stick with Pig.
Do you play her mainly for stealth? Neither Pig nor Chucky's stealth is particularly great so go based on the other points or just play a stealth killer like Wraith.
If you don't like Pig then don't keep playing her but I don't think Chucky is going to play much like Pig does aside from both having a dash.
1 + 2) I was drawn to Pig by her RBTs because I love the idea of an alternate way of kill Survivors by forcing them into a minigame. Stalling is also nice, especially with the buff she received to her Trap consistency. The problem is that she is still dependant on using her Ambush power to get downs on anyone better than potato-level regardless of what your gameplan is. I do not think her built-in slowdown makes up for her painfully limited Ambush power.
3) Definitely I can.
4) A bit, but it most certainly is not the meat of my gameplan with her because she is so goddamn slow while stealthing. I think Chucky is more on par with a Killer like Wraith for stealthing because while he does technically have a tell to give himself away, he can still definitely close a good amount of distance in his stealth before getting caught if he plays his cards right.
I disagree on Chucky "not playing like Pig because Dash is all they have in common" because I think Dash makes up the bulk of Pig's gameplay. Much as I appreciate what the RBTs bring to the table, I don't feel they do much to change Pig's gameplan of "sneak if you think you've got an opportunity to surprise and use her antiloop to try ans antiloop." Chucky has the same schtick, except hos dash can also be used outside of that as well.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584037#Comment_3584037
Because Pig can use her power whenever she want, her cooldown is more forgiving. Headtraps are good slowdown. Pig can use her stealth whenever she want.
Chucky and Pig shares only one similar power but Chucky's base-kit built around it. So ofcourse his dash power will be better than Pig's. But this does not remove anything from Pig, you still can play both killers.
Just because i started play Xeno ( which is much better than Nemmy ) i did not stop play Nemesis. They both had similar powers but Nemmy also has some unique abilities. Like zombies and pallet break with tentacle. That's what kept him in my killer rost.
But ofcourse you can play whoever you want, it's your game after all.
Pig can use her power whenever she wants, but using it willy nilly is hugely detrimental due to the time wasted by her slow stealth speed. In practice, she is only using it during specific times at specific points. Hidey-Ho mode has a cooldown, yes, but 20 seconds is not very unforgiving and is more than made up for by being usable a far greater percentage of the time. You are free to use Pig's ambush whenever you want, but it's Chucky's Hidey-Ho mode that is versatile enough to allow you the luxury of firing it off without skipping a beat.
It's not just a matter of "Oh, this Killer is better than my current main, I should switch." It's a matter of "My main has left me increasingly unsatisfied for some time, and this new Killer threatens to be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me."
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
They are different killers tho and you don't need to drop Pig for Chucky. You just can play both of them.
My question, though, is "What reason do I have to stick with Pig gameplay-wise when Chucky exists?"
EDIT: Lemme try framing it in a different way: I'm having a crisis of faith with the Pig, and here comes a shiny new Killer that, at a glance, outPigs the Pig (except for headtraps). What stops me from abandoning her?
-
@NerfDHalready said:
if you are comparing the dashes, chucky's is definitely better and seems more fun too. but they are different killers after all, his stealth is limited with a cooldown, and he doesn't have traps; but he is 3rd person and, well, very small so mind games with him should be very easy and strong. wait until mft nerf and see how you feel playing pig after that and if you are going to enjoy playing her any further i'd say.
The way I personally see it is like this (and anyone is free to argue otherwise):
Pig's advantages are as follows:
1) Faster movement speed
2) Zero cool-down and unlimited duration for stealth mode
3) Full control over turning when dashing (Chucky is limited in his ability to turn)
4) Built-in slowdown in her tool kit
5) No warning that she is in stealth mode (Chucky has fake footprints to warn Survivors, and Survivors can hear him snickering when he is nearby)
Chucky's advantages are as follows:
1) No penalty to movement speed while stealthing (Pig moves slower than a non-teleporting Nurse)
2) Does not have to stop moving while charging up his ambush attack
3) He can go through pallets without having to break them, and can dash over a vault spot as well
4) Smaller penalty if he misses his dash attack
5) Instantaneous stealth (Pig takes over a second to crouch unless she is using Combat Straps)
Out of all of these, the ones that really tip the scales in favor of Chucky are his lack of penalty to movement speed while stealthing and his ability to stay fully mobile while trying to line up a dash attack. Mind you, I think #3 and #4 are live to be nerfed when the chapter hits live, so this all could easily change.
-
I think it's hard to argue against the idea that Made for This is way too versatile. I personally do not like how it can effectively heal a downed Survivor to full health when comboed with Made for This while also severely weakening its downside.
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
Everytime i get more and more dissapointed in what some people call a gamebreaking bug
I pissed that BHVR fixed the gamebreaking bug that was Clown's turbojiggle.
-
@Katzengott said:
Solution is simple: Basekit Unbreakable is only active after all gens are done. On top of that they should finally get rid of hatch.
Because sometimes killers need some slugging pressure during the game. Take that away and they'll tend to camp and tunnel even more.
That doesn't solve the slug for 4k at all because the whole point is that the gens are not yet done.
Easiest solution is to give a downed Survivor the option to let themself instantly die after being slugged for a combined total of all three hook states (two minutes).
-
Three RBT kills. Were they potatoes? Sure. Do I care? Nah.
-
@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318059#Comment_3318059
SWF is an option and not the default play mode. Most players are solo ques so why punish the majority of players to benefit the few?
Because the few SWF ruined it for the majority of solo queue.
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317401#Comment_3317401
Maybe you didn't understand me about vectorising the curve or the difference between more accurate and less accurate data, but that 'dip' doesn't exist.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0NXIYSFB9FEC/sharpdecline.png
This is a vectorised curve that an algorithm has attempted to simplify the data into something that looks neater.
This is the same graph expanded at a higher resolution:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/J8TR2PZDV95Y/sharpdecline2.png
Oh no, is that a huge dip after Jan 9? It looks like a decrease from 40k to 35k in the space of... two days...
Actually, this is still vectorised, this is still inaccurate, because the highest definition graph looks like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G72X2RDIAKF4/sharpdecline3.png
Everything in the red circle represents the data that has been vectorised into 'a sharp decline'. Additionally, even the lowest dip, which would have been the middle of last night, was still higher than the night of December 15th.
Give it 12 hours, and that 'dip' will turn into a sharp increase, as the vector favours the daytime rise over the night time fall.
Seems like OP bailed when the backbone of their claim fell apart?
-
@Firellius said:
Am I missing something?
I'm guessing OP meant that a hacker DDOS'd them or something.
-
In my mind, it would be a perk that lets a Survivor teleport through a locker, it can only be used if not in a chase but within the Killer's TR, it needs a few seconds to charge similar to Head-On (to give the Killer a chance to catch them in the act), you don't get to choose which locker you teleport to (though it has to have a minimum distance from you) and it can only be used once.
-
@SmolBlob said:
I'd rather they rework hatch so the only smart strategic decision on the killer's part isn't to slug the third for up to 4 minutes. It also incentivizes survivors to hide and do nothing until the others die, which is against the rules too.
Well, how could they rework the hatch in such a way that slugging for the 4k is not an effective strategy?
-
Smash Ultimate has a DC penalty. Just sayin'.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303642#Comment_3303642
You want a answer that fits everyone. Your literally asking for an impossible answer. No need for snarky for getting the second best thing.
I'm not, though. I'm not asking for literally everyone to be happy. I'm asking for someone where both sides are generally content with the Killer and consider that Killer fun (along with the other things I mentioned) You said yourself that the opinions vary greatly. How does that fit the bill?
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300077#Comment_3300077
There's plenty past threads for that mate. For us we say look at Wesker as sans a few map, he's pretty well balanced, but opinions vary greatly.
If opinions may vary greatly, then Wesker isn't exactly the answer, is he?
@JustWhimsical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300077#Comment_3300077
In my opinion, there is no way to make a killer that is fun for everyone, because survivors like easy killers, and killers want to feel like their actions have meaningful impacts on the game there is no way to add both because you will just get scenarios where you make a killer that is easy to bully or you have to play in a certain way that is unfun to get greater impact from them. Sadako and wraith maybe can be used as an example. I mean I know people that hate rework hillbilly and hillbilly is one of the more fun killers to face as a survivor. They usually say it's because they have an instant down and go super fast lol.
Sounds like the game is fundamentally flawed then, no?
@Zephinism said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300077#Comment_3300077
Give them a chainsaw.
If you juke a billy or bubba it can be fun as survivor. If you get a saw down with billy or bubba it can be fun as killer. When a Billy curves around a loop and gets you, or the bubba chainsaws around the loop backwards and gets you, you gotta respect the skill in that. Oni, Demo and Pig are similar in that regard. Any Pig that gets me with a dash at a loop outplayed me and I respect that.
I'd add Spirit and Blight but it depends on what add-ons they run as they are significantly easier and have busted addons.
Knight, Artist, Nurse, Pyramidhead, Nemesis, Trapper and Hag don't get the same respect from me at the typical pallet loop and I don't consider them as fun to face.
Do you think the Killers you mentioned as they currently are can be described as strong, fun for both sides, and not heavily reliant on anti-loop?
-
Question that's always been on my mind: How does one make a killer that is strong, fun for both sides, and not heavily reliant on anti-loop?
-
@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299018#Comment_3299018
"Potentially an achievement" - Okay, and where are my free achievements? I can't even get a glyph while injured in front of a killer most times, not sure why I'm going to be handing out 4Ks. Are you implying all survivors should give up and allow the kill to happen after the first tombstone, after all it is an achievement and it clearly has so so so much value... or something.
I'll say it here as I know killers love saying it, it isn't on the players of the opposite team to make sure you have fun, I do not owe killers anything and they do not owe me anything.
and yes, my blood points are more important than someone else's achievement, I didn't get the achievement handed to me when I did it.
Simple conclusion: Neither side is entitled to make the other person play nice by letting them get an achievement out of some courtesy move. As long as neither side is preventing the other side from bringing the game to a close, neither side is in the wrong for refusing to budge. Ut just means that both sides are wasting their own time.
-
Neither in my book. It's not much different from before the Hatch could be closed. First one to make the first move "loses", but nothing is stopping either one from making that move. It'd be hostage holding if either the Survivor was hiding endlessly from the Killer or if the Killer was bodyblocking the Survivor such that they can't do anything except DC. Neither one is happening, so it can't really be called hostage holding because both parties have the means to end the game right then and there without having to DC.
-
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294852#Comment_3294852
Never said it was holding the game hostage.
it’s forcing to farm, which is definitely a grey area and will be determined case by case. It’s not even directly stated in the game rules but probably would fall under griefing or something
I could be mistaken, but I do believe that punishing someone for not farming is punishable.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293663#Comment_3293663
All I can say is that some people here have a very different memory of the old event than I do. I played killer, almost exclusively at that point, and I extremely rarely saw a snowman even be useful for survivors, let alone enough value to warrant these kinds of comments.
Even in theory, snowmen weren't unbalanced without ignoring key aspects of them.
Hey, that's why anecdotal evidence in isolation is only so useful in a discussion.
-
Not entitely related to OP's point (not that it matters as they are hammered) but we need a ranked and unranked queue to separate the people who want to goof off during the holidays and the people who want to play as normal. One should not have to go into the game and just hope that they have opponents who have the same mindset if they don't want to have to choose between two forms of not having fun.
-
What's the bug?
-
"I have magical massage powers that can painlessly heal you right up!"
"Nah, give me the gauze and pop that shoulder back in manually."
I mean, you do you.
-
DBD puts the "FeEeEeEaAaAaAaArRrRrRrR" in FOMO
-
@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283576#Comment_3283576
It feels kind of entitled to me. (Just trying to understand)
I believe the intent is to be seasonal and ephemeral, which is part of the "magic" of celebrations.
The issue is more with BHVR going against what they said in the past for purely an anti-consumer gain. Issue of principle.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284648#Comment_3284648
Yes, a few killers were hit unfairly by the snowmen, that much I'll agree with. Pure M1 killers also had to do a little bit of positional work before they could render the snowmen borderline useless, and I wouldn't mind further disincentivising using them in chase, since that's already not what they're for. Something like not putting the killer into the cooldown wipe would be fine- not necessary, but fine, to make it more clear the snowmen aren't for chases.
As for bad players playing badly, sure. But the problem is trying to use them in chase at all was already using them badly, because they don't actually provide value in a majority of scenarios. The stars have to align that you're playing against an M1 killer that isn't using STBFL and doesn't know the trick about standing in front of the snowman, and it's only at that point which you get... the amount of distance you get running normally from a killer's weapon wipe animation, without any guarantee about what else you have around to run to. IE... a free protection hit, not a third health state, when the stars align to let you get it.
Not a bad place for an event gimmick that clearly was designed for other uses, eh?
I don't know where you're getting that they don't have use in chase because they fundamentally do by being able to eat hits. I think you overestimate the way the stars have to align, and I think you underestimate the amount of distance gained.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284635#Comment_3284635
Deathslinger doesn't either. As for the others, "third health state" only matters if it actually adds noticeable time to a chase, which it does not for the killers on that list. It's also still deeply misleading to use the phrase "third health state" when there is no speed boost. What people are arguing isn't actually that the snowmen are a third health state, it's that they're a free protection hit, which is a different thing. Nemesis, for instance, actually does have to deal with a third health state, because infection gives a speed boost.
You get chased, you run into a snowman, you jump in- oops, you got hit during the animation. Okay, next chase, you run into a snowman, you're far enough away that you finish the animation- oops, the killer's power says no. Next game, you run into a snowman, you're far enough away that you finish the animation, the killer uses an M1- oops, you go down/get injured a few seconds later because you got no distance. They're not designed for chases and the stars have to align before you even get any value from trying to use them that way.
I was only referring to the characters you mentioned. I know Deathslinger hard counters the snowman. As far as the killers that barely lose time as a result, those are the killers that are already considered good to begin with. The killers that already struggle are hurt that much more by that additional bubble. As by my standards, if the Survivor is taking a hit, not going down, and slowing the Killer down while they are able to run at normal speed, that is effectively a third health state. If baiting with old DH was able to count, this definitely does.
The first two examples you mention are bad gameplay, and the third won't happen if they successfully tank the hit. I repeat, bad players being bad doesn't make the unbalanced tool balanced. It's like saying new DH sucks because the Survivors can't time it right. The better you are, the more you'll be able to abuse it.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284629#Comment_3284629
Cannibal and Trickster pop the snowman without ending their power, so they can both just keep going and damage the survivor too. Cannibal and Deathslinger are the best picks if you really want to just ignore the snowmen entirely, but the others all pop the snowman and can ready up another hit very quickly, given the lack of distance and randomised placement.
Yep. But that shield isn't a tool given to survivors for chase-based gameplay, it's a gimmick for an event that is geared towards either goofing off or stealthing. That context doesn't go away and can't be ignored, it's just as important as every other element of this discussion.
Fair point on Cannibal, but for the rest (including Trickster), that still means they have to deal with effectively a third health state.
How is it not a tool for chase-based gameplay? You get chased, you run into a snowman/pallet, you jump in/drop it before getting hit, you survive, you keep running.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284622#Comment_3284622
Off the top of my head- Doctor, Deathslinger, Cannibal, Trickster, Huntress, and Pyramid Head all directly prevent snowmen from being useful in some way or another. Demogorgon, Nemesis, Nurse, and I'd imagine Wesker all make getting that extra hit so trivial with the lack of distance that they functionally also do the same.
Yes, STBFL needs high stacks. You also get high stacks by hitting snowmen.
Certainly, but we aren't talking about an unbalanced tool. We're not talking about a tool at all, we're talking about an event gimmick, and it's balanced enough to be presented for a brief window with the intent of either goofy fun or hide and seek.
From what I am reading, Cannibal, Trickster, Huntress, Demo, Nurse, and Pyramid Head all only pop the snowman.
I stand by what I said about the rest of STBFL.
We are talking about an in-trial object that grants a Survivor immunity from a single hit from most attacks in exchange for being slowed down and being unable to do anything else while the shield is up. That is objectively what we are discussing.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284609#Comment_3284609
I said the opposite- it's not reasonable to assume no killer will have STBFL in an event where it will be much stronger. If nothing else, if we're talking about survivors who insist on trying to use snowmen in chase and we're acting as though their minimal value is still too much, then circumventing it with STBFL and the many powers that either directly eliminate the snowmen or diminish their effectiveness even further are pretty much the only fair thing to start talking about.
I remember the old event. I remember how many survivors were hit during the enter animation, and I remember how many survivors went down a handful of seconds after the snowman they hid in was hit. I remember how many powers just did not care about the snowmen, too. It was a massively overblown and frankly embarrassing reaction then, and I'm not looking forward to it picking back up again when this event hits.
Of course, I still hope they made some changes to let the three or so specific killers who were harmed by the event flourish, but even if they didn't... it's no huge burden to just not play those killers for two weeks or so.
From what I am reading, most powers do not beat the snowman. As far as STBFL, that is only reasonable once it is at high stacks. It also means the obsession has free reign over the snowmen. Even if it were a viable answer, not everyone has it, and they certainly shouldn't feel obligated to get it to not be at the mercy of a seasonal event.
Bad players making bad use of an unbalanced tool does not make that tool balanced. :P
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284597#Comment_3284597
Right, but they have to move through the killer and they have absolutely zero control over where the snowman is, so it's dramatically different than old Dead Hard. Old DH gave you more distance at the specific point where distance gets you to a loop, but the snowmen spawn randomly and you'd need to be pretty lucky for that smaller distance to be anywhere near as impactful as old DH.
The weapon-wipe animation isn't actually that long if you don't have the speed boost from being injured. Once again, we're also assuming it is an M1 and that the killer isn't bringing STBFL, which are both pretty huge assumptions to make during an event where doing the opposite of that is a better idea.
(We're also assuming both parties are stubbornly refusing to engage with the event as intended, but that's a more fair assumption for this type of conversation. Just should be acknowledged.)
Again, not much different from pallets that they have no control over where they spawn. They are occasionally scattered throughout the map, and they enable a Survivor to jump in to avoid being downed. As far as DH for distance, I specifically said DH for bait becaus obviously the real power of old DH was DH for distance. The snowmen were still better than DH for bait.
I'm looking one or two videos right now, and I'm seeing Survivors making good distance from a tank hit. Obviously not to the same extent as a god pallet, but it ain't just a few seconds from running from a weapon wipe animation.
As far as M1s and STBFL, only a handful of M2s beat the snowmen, and as you said, not reasonable to assume the Killer does or does not have that perk, so injecting it into the convo doesn't seem reasonable on either end.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284565#Comment_3284565
It's very different, it's more like being hit during the window vault animation. It's more than long enough that a survivor needs a head start before jumping in a snowman is even remotely viable, which leads us to the second point again.
It matters a lot, actually. Yes, you can say that extending the chase by five seconds is strictly longer than it would've been otherwise, but to say that's unbalanced and an "objective buff" for survivors would be laughable. It'd be like getting mad at being spun.
This is all, again, giving the extremely charitable assumption that it's an M1 hit that we're talking about, and not a power.
The time extended is definitely going to be longer than five seconds, considering the Survivor gets to move at normal speed after tanking the hit but the Killer still has to go through the hitstun animation. So yeah, at minimum, it is creating more distance than a successful bait using old DH.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284554#Comment_3284554
Two things- you are missing that jumping into the snowman had an animation that you could still be damaged during, and you are missing that you got zero speed boost from the snowman being hit. You get precisely the distance you'd get during the killer's weapon-wipe animation, if they hit you with an M1 and not one of the many powers that just completely invalidates the snowman.
Assuming they did hit you with an M1, they could also further minimise the distance you got by hitting the front of the snowman, as the survivor always jumps out facing forward, meaning they jump into the killer and have to run further away.
The snowmen did screw over a handful of powers, though, so there are valid criticisms to be had of the event, but it wasn't an "objective buff" for survivors like some are claiming.
1) No, I'm aware of the animation. To me, that's not much different from getting hit during the pallet drop animation.
2) It doesn't matter if you get zero boost because you still extend the chase longer than you would have by just going down.
-
@jesterkind said:
We're back to this before the event even begins?
It wasn't a third health state last year, so if it remains the same in the important areas, it won't be this year either. Survivors could be hit going in so they couldn't be used in chase, and survivors were slow as balls + couldn't perform actions while inside the snowmen so they couldn't be pre-entered without serious downsides. They had no tactical use unless you were playing against specific killers, and even then it was situational.
Hopefully, they fixed specific killers being screwed over, like Ghostface and Twins. But for the majority, snowmen provided zero tactical use for survivors and were only fun goofy nonsense.
My understanding and watching of videos indicated to me that it was a third health state, though. Jump into the snowman before the Killer landed a hit, and they'd tank the hit. The slowdown did not matter because Killer either accepted the free health state (which negates the slowdown penalty) or ended the chase. Lose/lose for Killer. What am I missing?
-
@NODD3RS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284138#Comment_3284138
The us vs them mentality is really depressing. Oh no survivors walk 15% slower and cant do anything. Why are you so upset over some event.. let alone a video game? Just chillax and if it really grinds your gears that bad dont play the game jesus. Lighten up.
That's not all the snowman does, and leaving out the part people complained about is disingenous.
-
@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284426#Comment_3284426
I just think the previous balance shake up really highlights the flaws of DBD and what needs to change. Both sides shouldn't be blamed for trying to win, but the devs do need to make better balance decisions because they just made the experience worse for everyone.
Would it be safe to call the big rebalancing a failure? From my understanding, the very strategies the devs were trying to quash are now more prominent than ever.
-
The only thing that they need to do to solve the issue created last year is simply make it so getting inside the snowmen does not create an additional bubble shield and also does not slow down the Survivor in any way. Now the snowman is just a goofy temporary cosmetic rather than one-time extra defense if timed correctly.
-
@HoodedWildKard said:
Yh the bots act weird. They all split up unless one needs a heal. And they genrush like mad 🤣
Legion is perfectly fine against human players. They make mistakes. And tbh getting a 5 hit combo on legion is pretty rare. You need to entire team pretty close to each other. And for them to be dumb enough to not haul ass away when they see the first deep wound pop up.
I usually get 2/3 hits out of it and thats damn good value multiple injuries quickly. That they will struggle to heal safely and cost them lots o.f time
Sounds like the humans are the ones acting weird if they're not splitting up against a Legion. :P
-
I believe usernames should be removed, but seeing items is fair game to me. Survivors are supposed to have the numbers advantage, and Killer is supposed to have the power advantage, and part of that is being able to prepare better.
-
@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282383#Comment_3282383
It was two birds with one stone.
The primary intent was to stop the ability to ninja away, to my understanding. The other thing is no different from just hiding from the killer indefinitely, a problem that still exists even with current Claudette. Not the same as a Killer throwing away the game.