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The bodyblocking thing seems like it'd be better solved by removing collision after being bodyblocked for too long. The slugging thing doesn't seem like an issue to me, but if it really needed to be solved, I'd make it so Survivors can forcibly die if slugged for the length of time equal to a full one-hook sacrifice (so about two minutes). Neither issue is really solved with making the EGC timer favor the Survivor.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234788#Comment_3234788
The numbers presented go well beyond the variable of skill. This isn't a perfectly balanced game like chess, far from it. Every game you load will have a variety of factors skewed in one direction or another, in a game where all outcomes are forced into cadences of 0/1/2/3/4 kills. You then have factors that can have an overwhelming impact on said outcomes which goes well beyond the maximum possible influence of skill, like killing 3 then the hatch literally spawning under the 4ths feet.
There is no possible way to compensate for enough factors to reach an offset of exactly 1% from perfect no matter your sample set, its impossible to have that level of accuracy making it an impossible claim without having a tremendous degree of conditions to force that outcome (i.e: claiming "that match didn't count" and other such arbitrary disqualifiers) as the variables would force a factual outcome to have more than a 1% standard deviation from an otherwise absolutely perfect record. The game is nowhere near balanced enough for that, so it then becomes a flawed claim by default. Simply put, the game does not have enough standardization to make a claim that specific, which means it has to then be either exaggerated or simply fabricated.
The person you are replying to is being equally disingenuous in the opposite direction to counteract OP's lack of good faith.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234425#Comment_3234425
So there no significant difference between comp survivors and high mmr pub survivors?
The difference is that comp players are good. If you consider yourself to be good, you'd fit right in.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234237#Comment_3234237
That's because it's a calculated bluff most of the time.
People in different time zones, different regions/servers, etc. make it unlikely that these will happen, or need stuff like a VPN to make work, which is a pre-made excuse for a lot of things. I would bet that like 99% (see what I did there) of callouts are bluffs.
It's also why they have no problem with other people showing video evidence of this matchup that will never happen but refuses to show any video evidence themself of their own skill.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234295#Comment_3234295
I have no comp experience, I play pub only
Shouldn't make a difference to someone of your skill level.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234275#Comment_3234275
Who cares about comp? We play all pub matches
What difference does it make to you?
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234143#Comment_3234143
Ahh people ask for proof. I want to deliver and people shame me. Can't win hahaha, that's the true sad thing.
You can always stream uninterrupted for a bit. Seems like a pretty fool-proof way to show your skills off.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234073#Comment_3234073
I read then Dev update back then already.
The thing is, I'm still very curious what streamers bhvr was watching to make those decisions. I would love to hear some names to get a picture on the decisionmaking. Not every streamer is the same.
Also, is bhvr currently still watching streamers for balancing?
Why is bhvr not creating some kind "leaderboard" then? Showing all kinds of statics everyone can pick and chose? Like the leaderboards some fans created. Live updated, showing kill rates of the day/week/month most used perks of the day/week/month.
And then let the community create their own statistics to focus on and share.
The data given out is not enough apparently, so give us the possibility to access more data
It sounds like you are trying really hard to accuse the devs of either not knowing how to read their own data or of lying.
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@Beatricks said:
Because the entire forum throws a baby tantrum with the big common enemy, that people DCing are ruining the game. Not the cheaters, not the godawful MMR system that is utterly incapable of putting good killers against good survivors and vice versa, not the horrificly unbalanced killers, addons, maps, items, SWF, no it's the already completely ######### in the ass SoloQ players that don't want to waste 15 minutes of their lives playing a match that was lost because a player DC-ed thirty seconds into the game that's "ruining the game". But don't worry, BHVR is hard on the case and I'm sure cheaters won't just be back in full force 6 hours after they patch their vulnerabilities. Like the last ######### time.
All of those things can be ruining the game alongside ragequitters.
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I hope the person advocating for turning off the penalty enjoyed their time.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231833#Comment_3231833
That's the thing, it "can". Even reading that there is a lot of room for interpretation.
Ez rule of thumb: Is the game taking a billion years with either no downs or no gens being done? If yes, someone is likely holding the game hostage. Could be the Survivors, could be the Killer. Refer to video footage for judgment on a case by case basis.
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Good thing to keep in mind: BHVR releases these stats more for funsies and don't expect you to put too much stock in them.
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@NerfedFreddy said:
Good data that debunks a lot of killer mains' narratives
"Low mmr inflates killrates" "Pig/Sadako is weak" etc
Wesker needs nerfs. I hope it's pretty clear to devs and won't take much time to make changes
Remember, lesser-played characters are more likely to have kill rates that are less representative of how good/bad they may be. Pig, for example, has pretty consistently been among the least played Killers, if memory serves correctly.
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@blue4zion said:
I don't think its fair to say a flat no.
I did not try him much so I cannot protest to this but big old freddy mains will argue otherwise, there was just a different way to play him from the normal. If you played him like most other killer then yes, "worst killer by far"
I would say that old Freddy was to DBD as Phoenix Wright was to UMvC3.
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"Say whatever negatives you want to me, I simply come with observations and conclusions that you, reader, could make yourself."
The phrase you are looking for is "anecdotal evidence."
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Good ideas mostly, but the exclusive rift costumes leave a rather bad taste in my mouth.
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@Xernoton said:
That is impressive. Would you mind telling the less talented people like myself and pretty much every other killer your secret? I'm legitimately curious.
Never show your evidence. It will cause your win rate to spike by 1000%. The only people you will ever lose to are those whose wins are integral to the point you are trying to make.
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Purely visual changes might be fine, depending on how far they go. Altering gameplay even a little bit is a big no-no.
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@RaSavage42 said:
Why would speedrunners have any interest in this game?
But other then that yea sounds good to me
There are speedrun records for this game, to my understanding. Not super prominent, but they're there.
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@BarnesFlam said:
I really wish we could see the survey results. I cannot comprehend people agreeing to this.
I could believe that a majority said no and BHVR simply decided to go through with it anyways.
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I just get it over with. If I win, I win. Much like if I lose, I lose.
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As long as the other side is not doing so with obvious intent to mock, why not take it in stride and return the courtesy? That's what I do (usually :P ).
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Sometimes a losing game is an opportunity to try and improve.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217011#Comment_3217011
And if there would be no collab with For Honor (or PUBG), DBD-players would also not get anything out of it.
It was once again embarrassing to see how the DBD-Community reacted.
Er, duh? And as a result, no one is going to get upset that they didn't get anything out of a non-existent collaboration.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217022#Comment_3217022
Sure, but I don't see why it should be expected that they must do so every single time it is technically possible.
There's nothing wrong with another game having some DBD stuff in it, there's no reason why DBD must necessarily have a proportionate amount of content at the exact same time. Like, I get wanting it, but there's this weird transposition happening where people put their expectation of what should happen onto what is happening, which is how you get to the For Honor charm somehow being insulting or "dropping the ball" when its purpose was very clearly not to fill that role to begin with.
I think it should be expected that both sides are pulling their weight for their respective games' player bases. Not doing so to me comes off as not really caring as to whether your player base feels like it's missing out. That's dropping the ball to me.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217015#Comment_3217015
I absolutely cannot see any angle through which that could possibly matter, so I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
It matters because there's an expectation for live-service games to be able and willing to accommodate such an event (since that's sorta the whole idea behind live-service games to begin with) when the other live-service game that it is collaborating with is able and willing to make the same accommodation itself. Resident Evil Village isn't expected to have seasonal/quarterly/yearly events and expansions to its game in the same way.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217011#Comment_3217011
I genuinely don't understand that argument.
Nobody complained about (for example) Resident Evil Village not having any DBD content, nobody said "it's an RE event that RE players get nothing out of unless they own a separate game", so why is the expectation there when it goes the other way?
This game THRIVES on one-way crossovers.
Resident Evil Village is not a live-service ever-evolving game that is continuously worked on over time. Dead By Daylight is (as is For Honor).
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217007#Comment_3217007
IF, yes.
But, considering it was a For Honor event and not a both-games or DBD event, the charm was simply to promote and commemorate it.
And that's exactly the problem. It was an event about DBD that DBD players got pretty much nothing out of unless they owned a completely separate game.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216983#Comment_3216983
I'd be curious about how "promoting an event they were involved in" was dropping the ball, personally!
There was close nothing for the DBD players who don't play For Honor. If this crossover was a celebration of the two games, Dead By Daylight brought the napkins.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216931#Comment_3216931
Bit of a weird flex, but I suppose I can't stop you.
It'd be a shame, though.
Hey, not my fault that BHVR dropped the ball hard last time. :P
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@jesterkind said:
If DBD does put out a charm to promote this one too, I desperately hope people can be normal about it this time.
That was some of the most embarrassing stuff I've ever seen, last time.
At the topic- curious to see what it'll be. Maybe I'll reinstall PUBG and give it more of a chance, lol.
No. :) I will react the same as last time if that's what they do this time.
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I don't think that's the right way to look at it. It's skipping a health state, sure, but it doesn't count as two hits for anything that tracks number of hits. It's still just one hit that puts you into the Dying State, which is exactly what Endurance is stated to do.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215642#Comment_3215642
But then you're just adding insult to injury to the killer instead. They beat the survivors, closed the free escape hatch, now what? You want to give the survivors more chances to escape?
That's not really what "insult to injury" means. It means taking a crappy situation (everyone else is dead and your team has lost) and making it worse (you can't even touch an Exit Gate lever without alerting the Killer). Making this change is more just not making an already winning situation for the Killer easier.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215909#Comment_3215909
Forgive me if this sounds ignorant or naive...
If tunneling someone for racist/homophobic/etc. reasons is considered targeted harrassment, wouldn't it then logically follow that tunneling is harrassment?
At which point, maybe BHVR should be considering doing something about it...?
No, because not all tunneling is done for that reason. They'll only do something about it if there's proof that it was done for one of those reasons.
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You know what, I actually think this is a fine change. At that point in the game, Killer has basically already won. I don't see the point in adding insult to injury for the last Survivor. Luckily, clearing that up it is as simple as changing "When the Exit Gates are powered" to "When the last Generator is completed."
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Removed? No. I do think the game would have benefitted from having them re-balanced around there being fewer rarities, though (either same rarity across the board or divided between basic and advanced or something like that). That way, we might have fewer instances of "this add-on is just this one but with better numbers." Way too late to do such a drastic change to the game, though.
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It's not a true speedrun if you don't got City Escape playing.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212292#Comment_3212292
I wouldn't necessarily call it a huge buff but it was a buff for some of the killer roster that people could argue didn't need it like nurse for example, it takes away moments where you could've used power struggle flip flop, or unbreakable during the time someone is being hooked to reset other players, also the troll squads cant abuse the unhookable builds with no mither because if they're all downed they die so no mither sabo is dead officially when that rolls out , now I don't consider it a big buff because nothing really changed gameplay wise except survivors have to be smarter and spread out when a slug starts, the base kit unbreakable takes 45 seconds so anyone considering that a big buff falls into the same category as people assuming killers were over buffed when in reality nothing changed all that much except you have to play smarter against snowball killers and not be trying to troll with sabo and breakout
I think basekit slow unlimited UB has the potential to be more significant every now and again (because pallet/flashlight saves can still buy time). The buff to the actual UB perk, though, I think is big.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Thank you for this, the amount of people who think this mechanic has been some sort of buff to killer surprised me. Someone even told me every 3-5 games survivors were doing comebacks from full team slugs lmao. It's literally just a "win faster" mechanic, it has next to 0 impact on balance.
I still never got an answer from people who think this is a big buff as to how this is anythjng more than a marginally better Cypress Mori offering. :/
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Regarding why this change probably took so long to happen, good rule of thumb: Be wary of attributing to malice what can be merely attributed to incompetence.
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You'd think people would use Shadowborn more often with these claims of an FOV slider screwing up the game balance. Maybe the fact that Shadowborn isn't this meta force is a signal of things?
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203940#Comment_3203940
In chase vs out of chase is probably the best way to handle the idea, particularly if the killer leaves the hook and chases a survivor who leads them back to the hook.
I'm still a bit wary of how this will play out when the killer knows someone else is nearby but can't find them right away.
A justifiable concern; I admittedly don't know how that would play out in the grand scheme of things.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
I would love to see an actual solution for camping but I don't think one can exist based on killer proximity to hook because one side or the other will game that line to their advantage.
And no solution for camping will work as long as Hag or Twins exist. Possibly even Huntress. They can camp from the other side of the map.
My idea has always been to instead tie it to whether or not the Killer is in a chase or carrying someone else while anyone is on a hook. If the Killer is out hunting others, reward the Killer somehow. If the Killer is standing by, punish the Killer somehow.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201613#Comment_3201613
We're going in circles here. It doesn't matter that it's only marginally better than the yellow Mori, I'd rather not have the system to begin with, but I just don't see BHVR scrapping it.
I've always been of the opinion that base kit yellow Mori was all that was needed as far as the Mori system.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202230#Comment_3202230
Thanks for the insult, I think?
It seems like you're getting upset and we aren't getting anywhere, so I'm going to suggest we just leave it, sound good?
No upset here. I simply think this is enough of a bad idea that it's about as close to "objectively bad" as one can get without actually being objectively bad (purely on the grounds that it is technically your opinion to disagree).
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202212#Comment_3202212
People have different experiences.
It can be easy to forget, but the Forums aren't full of casual players. We're the weirdos in the community that care too much, ya know? What we find miserable and objectionable probably doesn't even register on the casual players radar.
I think it's worth seeing what the average player thinks. There's no better way to do that than by turning them off and then posting a survey in the in-game news.
The only people who don't mind excessive DCing are people who DC and you.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202203#Comment_3202203
So you aren't actually interested in seeing if it would be better or worse.
Damn, I'm really disappointed that you decided to take that route.
What do you mean that I'm not interested? We've already seen the end result more than once, and it's miserable. I have no reason to believe that testing misery for a limited time is a good idea by any stretch of the imagination.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202193#Comment_3202193
Every time it's been disabled, it's been than it was prior to it's disabling, that much is true. However, I'd say we are already on that level.
Do a weekend test and see if it gets worse.
How about, and just hear me out in the interest of healthy debate, no.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
To be fair, it's much more than a cypress mori. In theory, you can 4K without a hook.
There are tons of scenarios where you will be able to end games quickly and easily where before you'd have to plan around hooks.
I think that on balance it's a close to neutral (in terms of killer/surv) update, but I don't like it. It's a lot of trouble to shoehorn in a mechanic that wasn't really asked for. And yeah, it drains the fun out of a couple perks.
It's very much a "but why?" update; must be someone's pet project or something.
Eh, not much more, honestly. Assuming no one had Unbreakable before, slugging everyone was a 4k anyways. I would say this is only marginally better than a Cypress Mori.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202091#Comment_3202091
I really don't think that's true.
It already is an all-out disaster and it's just as bad as it was before the DC penalty system was in place.
The penalty system should have been temporary. They should've continued with the bot replaces DC'd player idea.
Instead, we have a penalty system that doesn't seem to actually stop people from ruining matches.
However bad you think it is, it gets monumentally worse if you remove the penalty.