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You're generally not allowed refunds if you spent more than a small amount of time playing the game.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124264#Comment_3124264
In any shooting game, a person's accuracy will constantly fluctuate above and below their average accuracy.
For example, a player who averages 40% accuracy may end their first game of the day shooting 20% accuracy, while their fifth game of the day might see them shooting 70% accuracy.
This in turn enables players to see variable success even when competing at their proper skill level.
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In the context of our conversation, it is relevant because the human inability to constantly perform at peak physicality has bigger implications with respect to game balance.
Isn't that just gaming? Sometimes you do better than average and sometimes you do worse?
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123396#Comment_3123396
Players who are weak are generally not able to do much vs. players who are strong in games overall
...but they can. Games other than DBD provide players with an opportunity to perform above and below their skill-level over the course of a match, because of the mechanical skill involved.
Anyway... i'm not sure how best to explain myself at the moment, so I'll drop the conversation for now. Perhaps I'll follow-up if I can find the right words to convey my thoughts
"Games other than DBD provide players with an opportunity to perform above and below their skill-level over the course of a match, because of the mechanical skill involved."
What does that even mean?
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123301#Comment_3123301
Right, so that is what I tried to explain with my response.
It largely boils down to the lack of mechanical skill in DBD. It creates a disparity in which players are either good or they are not, and a player who is not can't do much about that during the game. And by nature of the game a not skilled killer is at less of a disadvantage than a not skilled survivor.
Players who are weak are generally not able to do much vs. players who are strong in games overall anyway. As for the Killer vs. Survivor thing, that is mainly due to Survivors requiring better team coordination to win. Bad Survivors can sink a team.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123236#Comment_3123236
Oh, I agree. I'm not sure if that is what you meant with your initial comment about disparity, as that is not how I read it--it sounded like you meant between tiers of players, not match-ups between individuals of varying skill.
It's both. My point is that the idea of "the gap between low skilled and high skilled players is huge" is just a thing across video games and not just a DBD thing, so the idea that DBD shouldn't be balanced around high skilled players because of that doesn't make sense to me because that's not how other games do it when in a similar position.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122718#Comment_3122718
I don't hang around the RTS scene, so I can't speak on how games like Starcraft are balanced between Pubs and Comp, but I can say with certainty that Dead by Daylight's skill-gap disparity is very unique with respect to every popular competitive FPS and Moba on the market.
In competitive sports there are the 3 pillars of mastery:
- Mechanical Skill/Ability to Execute
- Game Sense/Strategy
- Coordination/Team Work
A player's overall skill level is derived from how proficient they are in each of these skills.
Players who lack in coordination or game sense can make up for their performance with great mechanical skill, and vice versa.
In DBD, the mechanical skill ceiling is so low that it has virtually no impact on the outcome of an average game. This means that a player with poor coordination and game sense cannot depend on their mechanical skill to pull enough weight. They either know how to play the game, or they don't.
This creates a scenario in which players plateau until they learn how to play the game, at which point they see dramatic gains in performance. Players in DBD don't improve inch-by-inch--they either improve in leaps and bounds, or they don't improve at all.
This creates a far greater skill-gap disparity than you'll find in other sports.
This wouldn't be problematic if DBD was a symmetrical game. The Killer being the defacto power role means that if the game is balanced around people who know how to play everything optimally, players who lack that knowledge will be unable to influence the outcome of their match until they learn how to play optimally.
In its current state, balancing DBD around "skilled play" means every game is the Killer's game to lose, and survivors can all but hope they stumble into the right strategy every time.
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For the record, I for the longest time have wanted the game to be balanced around skilled play. Even right now, I believe the game is incredibly survivor-sided. I'm constantly left dumbfounded by players inability to grasp basic concepts, like seriously... how hard is it to recognize that looping the killer back to, or around, a hooked survivor is a terrible idea? ffs.
Unless BHVR found a way to raise the skill ceiling in DBD, I don't believe it is in the best interest of the game to balance around the top players.
It's not a "DbD vs. other competitive games" thing. That's just the nature of games in general. The gap between skilled players and non-skilled players will always be pretty wide if the game doesn't have anything that actively mitigates how much skill factors in. Players who aren't skilled will not be able to meaningfully do anything about it in most games if they are paired up vs players who actually are skilled.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121010#Comment_3121010
The issue right now is that there is such great disparity between what the average player can do, and what the upper echelon of players are capable of. You don't want to alienate any part of the playerbase when creating an update, but that is not always possible.
From a business standpoint, the end goal of each balance update is to retain players (and hopefully even bring in a new audience).
What will make most players happy? Answer: Balancing the game around most players.
If BHVR's business model put heavy importance on entering and establishing the competitive scene, then yes... they absolutely should balance around the best players. But seeing as this game is only competitive to those who wish to make it so, BHVR should continue to focus on balancing the game around its largest population of players.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3120952#Comment_3120952
Her killrate doesn't prove it.
Go read How to Lie With Statistics, i'm sure you'll find it fascinating and informative. Maybe even a little eye-opening.
Unless a game is so luck-driven that it doesn't matter, there's always going to be a big disparaty in what high-skill players are capable of and what low-skill players are capable of. Dead By Daylight is not unique at all in this regard. Many games opt to balance for the skilled player, not the less skilled players because game devs don't want the game to be too easily broken in half balance-wise by people who know what they're doing.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117554#Comment_3117554
I don't watch tournament DBD (it's a joke) and I don't play tournament DBD.
I was asked to build a comp team by people who play(ed) for the Golden Wolves, and I declined.
Myself and 99.9% of DBD players should not care about tournament DBD.
Joe Schmoe may have learned how to loop Wraith for an hour, after 9,000 hours of game time, but the average survivor can't even loop Wraith for a minute. Why should the game be balanced around Joe Schmoe, when he makes up less than 1% of the playerbase?
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✅ Balance the game around the average player, and players will engage with the game longer.
--> The longer players engage with the game, the better the average player becomes.
----> The better the average player becomes, the more the game needs to be balanced around higher skill play
------> The more the game needs to be balanced around higher skill pay, the more likely the game will be balanced around competitive play
⛔️ Try to balance the game around higher skill play before the average player is ready, and the average player will just leave.
This seems contrary to how most games are balanced. That isn't to say that Average Joe should never be considered, but most games are balanced around what players at their peak are capable of, not people who are only capable of basic-moderate skill.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3120581#Comment_3120581
Buddy some people dc when they are being carried to their death hook just to not get sacrificed. To loads of people being able to say i didnt lose is pretty important and if you give them a way to ''escape'' losing they will take it.
And nobody just hides and waits for the killer to dc because killer has infinite time, that doesnt sound very in survivors favour. But if you instead say, you just gotta survive for x minutes it sounds way more appealing.
I guarantee you at least 10 times more people would do this instead of hiding and hoping killer dcs, because this is a guaranteed method with a fix time. Hell, its a secondary safety net.
I think some of that could be fixed by modifying the AFK crow system to hit people who take way too much time away from gens. You rat them out, they can't hide anymore to stall.
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That's...not the worst idea I ever heard, tbh. The main question here would be "Is there a way to abuse this?"
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@Hammie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119303#Comment_3119303
that means they have a valid reason to be blocked. You dont block people who are not doing anything wrong. If you get blocked often it means you throw, are a hacker or very toxic. Setting a cap will ultimately prevent people from blocking too many people so the queuetimes wont be affected except for the the individuals listed above.
That is very much not necessarily true, as the article once again demonstrates. There is nothing stopping large numbers of people from gradually blocking the same one person for simply being too good, which is exactly what happened according to the article.
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@Hammie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119257#Comment_3119257
You can put a cap on the amount of people you can block (as long as its either a vpn block or a hardware block) so hackers will have a harder time yet queuetimes wont be as affected.
It doesn't matter if one person can only block ten people. What matters is if a ton of people block one specific person.
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@Hammie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119241#Comment_3119241
And those people wont be matches with them anyways if they can't keep up with their skills. This really wont matter other than people eventually cockblocking themselves from their own matches. Again, a person can block 10 people. Those 10 people wont notice being blocked by 1 person but that 1 person will have longer queuetimes because they blocked 10 people.
People will only screw themselves over.
According to the article, they absolutely will because matchmaking will take so long that the player will eventually be forced to matchmake with people way worse than them.
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@caramelpudding said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3119218#Comment_3119218
Uhm, yeah, that is why some people would love being able to block, even when it means longer time to queue up. That's on them then, but personally I wouldn't mind if it means to get good games.
You might not mind, but the person who gets blocked by too many people for playing too well certain will.
https://www.eurogamer.net/overwatch-will-remove-the-avoid-this-player-option
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Golden rule: If the most effective way to win is unfun and boring, blame the devs for making unfun and boring tactics the most effective way to win.
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@BlazePyron2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113562#Comment_3113562
The difference is that I don't regard The Colonel as an emotionally complex character. When Behavior asked me a year ago what genre of game I'd like to see in the dbd franchise I said Dating Sim because I thought it could be an entertaining mix of humor and horror while preserving the elements of the characters players find interesting and appealing.
I didn't expect the resulting game to feel like sitting at a school lunch table laughing with a group of friends and slowly realizing everyone else at the table is laughing at you for thinking they're your friends.
Harland Sanders has more than 80 years of backstory and character development above any non-licensed character in Dead by Daylight.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113519#Comment_3113519
Removing the hatch WILL fixes the problem of encouraging people to hide.
It does not. People can and do hide just to draw the game out as long as possible if they know they are unlikely able to finish the gens.
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@BlazePyron2 said:
Yeah ok i didn't know these devs made the kfc dating sim, now I understand what I'm dealing with and I was foolish to expect a game that respected what I enjoy about the complexity of the characters behavior created.
I wonder if you would have felt this way about the KFC dating sim not taking rubbing lotion on the fried chicken seriously. :P
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112702#Comment_3112702
Yeah that's not how DBD works sadly, and people just suicide on hook and refuse to play among the DCs so that wont help.
They will keep doing it till nurse is gutted, like every other killer that gets nerfed.
It's bad enough I see nurse as often as I do but when those games are just unplayable because of my team what's the point in even having them in
Let's punish the hook suiciders, then!
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113110#Comment_3113110
Then we should add hard time limit of 30 minutes, it can also fix other hostage problem too.
And if that is what they do, the problem is on them, we can already do that from beginning with four man if we REALLY want to not die, but you know we won't do that.
So removing the hatch fixes no problem.
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I'd say that unless add-on acquisition is comparable to old system by, like, Prestige 10, then the problem isn't meaningfully fixed.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112790#Comment_3112790
Actually, two people alive will not hide like they do it now, because their only chance of escape will be generators only.
Current implementation encourage them to hide since they don't need to do generator, as opposed to killing them.
They will simply hide to avoid death as long as possible. They won't march to their deaths like you think.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111343#Comment_3111343
Current implementation does, with my changes they won't try to hide because they will die either way.
Yes, current implementation does that too, but your idea has them hiding out still with two people alive. It's not making the game better at all.
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"YOU WILL GIVE ME AN EGG."
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@Alen_Starkly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111759#Comment_3111759
Chris Redfield is not a dev, it's a fictional character. A playable character in Dead By Daylight.
@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111759#Comment_3111759
Did you read what he wrote? He didn't insult a dev...
My bad, I assumed Chris was the name of an IRL dev on stream, not Chris Redfield (I didn't watch the stream).
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I don't think I need a whole post warning me not to directly insult a dev's physical appearance on the stream.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111728#Comment_3111728
I mean, obviously they have to write their opinion somewhere.
I just think it is sad that the DBD-Community is THAT whiny.
That's how feedback works. If they don't like it, they voice their feedback (some more crude than others). If enough people voice the same feedback, devs look into the issue and make a call from there.
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If it allows multiple players to escape before all the gens are done, then no.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111719#Comment_3111719
I dont think that a Map someone dislikes is not really a problem. It is one Map.
But I understand it, DBD-players have their "I dont like it, change it"-Mentality.
That doesn't answer my question.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111526#Comment_3111526
Yeah, but whenever DBD-players dont like something, the mass-crying starts until it is changed. DBD-players are basically like Babies.
Like, nobody had a horrible gameplay-experience overall if they ended up on RPD once in a while.
And as I said, two small indoor Maps will also be quite miserable to play on. At least for Survivor, cant wait to play against a Nurse on those small Maps. Midwich 2.0 and 3.0...
How exactly do you propose devs be aware of changes that players want?
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110958#Comment_3110958
That is already against rules anyway, just add hard time limit and kill last survivor when all other died.
It can slightly help for hostage situation too.
You don't want your game to naturally encourage them to break the rules.
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@fulltonon said:
Yeah, it's just extremely weird to have two seconds chance mechanics which can be ENTIRELY DENIED by killer's action for some reason.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110849#Comment_3110849
We don't need one, just finish a match quickly and they will be more happier due to not wasting time.
If you don't have one, you encourage players to hide forever.
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Only if you provide an alternate viable means of escape for the last Survivor.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093916#Comment_3093916
Highest kill rate in the game.
I mean, Pig had one of the highest kill rates in the game, but most people were smart enough to know that Pig was not a strong Killer. Just sayin'. :P
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092944#Comment_3092944
I heard through the grapevine (DBD community on xbox one was small) that they tried to hit some dude off but he was on a military base, in barracks or something and so they were being prosecuted for it.
Happy if true.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092692#Comment_3092692
It was every ######### week on my Xbox One, almost daily, iirc.
Had a wonderful group of people keep hitting me off. Funny what happened to them tho
"Funny what happened to them tho"
Admittedly curious to know myself.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081906#Comment_3081906
I think this is alright. Again, this is a reason to use White Wards or Black Wards.
And it applies to Survivor anyway, even before, since they have so much ######### in their Bloodweb that it is hard to get the things you actually want. For Killers this means that there is not one guaranteed Alchemists Ring (at least) in each Bloodweb.
I don't think this is alright. I don't think a non-F2P game that already monetizes itself like a F2P game should further raise the grind of stuff that can't even be bought directly with premium currency and can only ever be obtained through grinding. That is actively choosing to inconvenience players for no benefit, which can only ever be a bad thing.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The Devs said at one point (when Survivors lose their Add Ons when they escape) that it is intended that you run out of Add Ons at some point.
Same applies to Killer now. At least there is a reason to use Black Wards now.
Except you could just keep grinding for either side before to stock up. Now that becomes MUCH harder for both sides (until the devs fix that problem). If it applies to Killer "now," then it applies to Survivors much harder than before this update.
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@LunaticLizzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080066#Comment_3080066
Gee, it's reductive, it's uninformative, it's snarky, and it didn't even make me laugh. Thanks, Tag!
It's the truth, though.
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@LunaticLizzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079935#Comment_3079935
So no possible better solution exists than "You no play game now"? You could eat out of their bloodpoint pool, make it go into the negatives if need be, you could have it cost them iridescent shards, maybe get those things' worth up. I feel like the matchmaking ban, whether for willful DCing or internet stutters, is a bit of a caveman solution. As SonicOffline put it up there, it may even be too lenient, on top of just being an annoying inconvenience that makes the experience of being suddenly booted from a match you may or may not be winning that much more subtly infuriating. Is my head entirely on backwards here, or does the matchmaking ban feel lacking?
When you find a way to apply a DC penalty to only the people who yank out their ethernet cables, let us know.
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@Zeidoktor said:
"Why have you eliminated Kate's jiggle physics?"
So that they could be given to the Clown.
A worthwhile sacrifice, then.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078677#Comment_3078677
The main reason why i think OTR sucks as a anti-tunnel perk even when it works is down to 2 things, the buffs to killer-basekit, and the nerf to Iron Will and survivor-basekit
when the killer hits you and OTR goes off they'll still be able to see you, compare this to DS where the killer was animation locked, and could be blinded with a flashlight, then add old IW onto that and you would practically disappear if the killer wasn't running Bloodhound, the killer can very easily track you down after OTR goes off, and since they know where you're going they can either ignore you, meaning the perk actually worked, or chase you, making the perk completely wasted, this is compounded by the faster swing recovery and break speed, as well as the decreased distance you make after getting hit, as well as the fact that IW is basically useless now, and even if OTR does work and the killer does decide to leave you alone, you still have to mend afterwards, wasting time, old and even current DS didn't have that problem, as soon as it was used, you could escape and get back to doing the objective, with OTR you have to waste more time getting rid of deep wounds before you can actually be useful to the team again
It wouldn't be nearly as bad if it didn't give you deep wound and if DS was actually useful, but unfortunately this patch basically buffed tunnelling and made the only 2 perks that are meant to discourage it either worthless or awful at it's job
You're complaining about having to mend after successfully escaping the Killer with OTR?
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@JibbyNeutron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075561#Comment_3075561
I have a family who are heavily using internet. Especially my kids. Dont try to give me advice im not dumb moron
Do it at night, then, when everyone's asleep and not using internet.
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@JibbyNeutron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075417#Comment_3075417
My download speed is good enough for normal content consumption. Not enough for 4k videos. Uploud speed is abysmal and is only really enough for minimal uploud stuff like gaming. Uplouding actual content not only takes forever but also crumbles download speed and makes gaming during that time impossible. German internet is just dogshid and cant change it
Well, then just upload the videos when you aren't gaming.
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@JibbyNeutron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075120#Comment_3075120
If you get a lot of upvotes on your comment I will do that and link it here. Not going to crumble my internet an entire day just for 1 click on my Video
If your internet is that bad, how are you able to play DBD online?
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@JibbyNeutron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075041#Comment_3075041
what do you want exactly? 40 Killer matches? I could do uploud it but with my shiddy uploud speed it would take me 1 month to upload all while having the internet crumble for everyone else in my house. If I get better Internet I will actually start streaming. Its the only reason why Im not a content creator already.
Just upload a few matches of yourself to Youtube. Doesn't have to be 40. :P
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Let's see some footage of your gameplay to verify. ;)
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ME.
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@tendyhands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070475#Comment_3070475
Yeah but once again all the killer mains said "bbq doesnt need a nerf it's only useful for the bloodpoints!" and here we are and people still running it like I knew they would. BBQ is an insanely strong perk and missed out on the nerf train because it also gave bp.
I never once said this, personally. I also don't think it's OP because it can be played around.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068729#Comment_3068729
Minus the NFT problem with them and banning people who say they shouldn't be supporting them?
Okay, it's like the collaboration with Crypt TV, except they're not banning people who say they shouldn't be supporting them. :P