LunaticLizzie
LunaticLizzie
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- LunaticLizzie
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Comments
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234051#Comment_3234051
Killers playing at the absolute highest level should be winning games. Unless you are claiming to be a highest level survivor, they why do you think you deserve to beat a highest level Nurse?
winning games =/= using perks to rig the game from the start, at least, it shouldn't
I even dislike that in some scenarios, as Trapper, at any MMR, you can abuse the basement spawns and bushes on Dead Dawg for an instant 4k at 3-4 gens, solely by bringing a Dusty Noose and Agitation+Iron Grasp. Killers or survivors being able to predetermine the outcome of a match entirely with just perks or offerings is a bit... Eh. Doesn't feel good, kinda makes me think there's a little bit of a crack in the hull.
Also,
Cram it with the "oh, so you think you're the best player in the world" argument I see you using all over the damn place lmao, I'm literally not speaking about my own ability, or any other specific person's ability, nor should you, because it's completely irrelevant, and derailing is a silly, silly thing for silly, silly people who don't have a real point.
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@AJStyIez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233992#Comment_3233992
I agree with you, but why did you pick Pablo? What did Pablo Gonzales do to you
common "completely oblivious child whose mum made his username" type username in another game I play, thought it'd be funny lmao
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234076#Comment_3234076
Because Nurse isn't over performing in comparison to the other Killers. I personally don't care if they make Blink attacks a special attack or not but, if they do, that diminishes the argument for Nurse to be slower than survivors. If survivors just run in a straight line Nurse literally needs to use her power to make any hits. She doesn't have an option to basic attack in most circumstances which makes Exposed perks next to useless on her.
So, which sounds better? A faster Nurse but Blink attacks are M2s or a Nurse whose Blink attacks are M1s but can't catch up to survivors without her power? I personally don't care either way but Nurse isn't over performing so I don't see any pressing reason to make changes when items such as solo queue status icons and help for Killers like Trapper are more needed.
Faster nurse with M2s, any day of the week. That way she CAN earn exposed downs, but actually has to earn them the good ole-fashioned way that every other killer has to earn them. I literally never argued Nurse should be slower than survivors. I never argued Nurse was particularly a problem outside of the highest highest levels of play, which is what I consider half-exposed-half-aura builds, whether they occur at "high MMR" or not (especially given that actual MMR is completely intangible to us as players anyways). Even if in effect it looks like the Nurse blinking in front of you to bodyblock, eating the fatigue in your face, then catching back up to M1 you, that's perfectly acceptable IMO.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234036#Comment_3234036
The talking point on this forum has always been that her kill rate is so low because of noobs picking her, which I agree with. But these stats suggest that even at high mmr, she is not the most effective. There is no good excuse; people are just wrong about her being a problem.
Listen, I agree, on the whole, Nurse's mere existence isn't a problem. That's what you guys are failing to see, I LIKE Nurse.
But PLEASE, for the LOVE of GOD, explain to me why it's okay that post-blink hits are counted as basic attacks. Name a single reason that SHOULDN'T be a special attack. I IMPLORE you, and literally everybody on this forum, to paint me the numbers on that one.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234051#Comment_3234051
'Trickle down balancing' is terrible for participation; all skill levels have to be considered. As an example, there's a certain other asymmetrical that tried it and has lost close to 95% of their player base.
If you want spectators as in competitive sports, sure, balance solely for the top. If you want participants and a thriving game community, consider all skill levels in balance.
And, besides, according to the kill rates for the top 5% MMR Nurse is fine. That's not the only factor BHVR takes into account but the kill rates aren't showing any issues.
"But I still fail to see how literally any of that means it's okay that Nurse can teleport to a healthy survivor and instantly down them with her 100% special attack "basic" attack should she use one of the seven trillion exposed perks in the game, and if she knows what she's doing, she probably will be."
Please don't make me repeat myself. Nurse Enjoyers, who I do respect but respectfully tend to disagree with, cannot seem to point out why it's okay that a Nurse can run one perk to see you through walls, run another to squeeze as much exposed out of you as possible, and then run two add-ons that make getting there EZPZ, and have it actually work despite post-blink hits being inarguably a special attack, no matter what way you spin it.
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@sulaiman said:
I think there are way less cheaters around than a lot of people in the forums claim, on both sides. And cheating survivors are not more common than cheating killers, actually, for killers subtle hacks are just a little bit harder to detect.
As somebody's whose spent a substantial amount of time in a game with a legitimate problem of literal cheating bots overrunning official servers, during the bulk of it being at it's worst in that game, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a LITTLE funny watching hacker hysteria play out here knowing it could be so, so, SO much worse and more blatant, and that if it got blatant enough, BHVR could easily jump ship, not say a word, and ignore that it's even happening, as other devhouses and companies have done in the wake of a genuine cheating CRISIS.
For anybody curious, look into Team Fortress 2, and how Valve "responded" to the issues at hand there, for an idea of how much astronomically and comically worse things could be here in DbD.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234036#Comment_3234036
You can still make general conclusions for the data. In the vast majority of the games that you play against Nurse, she is not overperforming.
Okay? Trickle-down balancing, AKA a pretty widely applicable and, dare I say, "good" way to balance things, dictates that if things function off-kilter or too strongly at the highest possible level, then nerfing it will be fine for the lowest possible level that didn't even know you could do that.
And yes, I'm aware, even top-tier Nurse players struggle with gens and that Blight tends to have a lot more leniency anyways, I have seen Otz' video, you needn't clarify for me,
But I still fail to see how literally any of that means it's okay that Nurse can teleport to a healthy survivor and instantly down them with her 100% special attack "basic" attack should she use one of the seven trillion exposed perks in the game, and if she knows what she's doing, she probably will be.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233992#Comment_3233992
You left out the fact that she is not even top 5 at the highest mmr. She is fine, people just like to complain
Please see
- BHVR said themselves not to take the stats at face value
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@Phasmamain said:
I like the idea of an endorsement system similar to OW. The only issue is that certain killers wouldn’t get any like nurse or legion even if they played nice due to how the community hates them
I feel like even mid-ish-tier-or-slightly-higher-killers who are just mildly annoying to deal with would also suffer this, like Artist (AKA my main) or Clown (AKA my other main).
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@xni6_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233997#Comment_3233997
understandable, have a nice day
You too, then! Pleasant interaction!
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Fair enough but in my defense, tone isn't the easiest to discern from straightforward text with basic punctuation and no indication of sarcasm beyond the idea being presented, which I have seen presented unironically.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232918#Comment_3232918
I mean, Nurse literally has a higher potential than the highest SWF at the moment. SWF is fine as it is, Nurse isnt.
Nurse is preventing buffs to killer. Buffing killers in general by 5% is like buffing Nurse by 20%. You need to nerf Nurse to buff killers.
I wouldn't argue SWF is fine at the moment so much as I would argue that there really isn't much BHVR can do about the strength of SWF since so much of that strength comes from simply having access to comms, and the ability to plan out what your entire team's bringing as opposed to what just you are bringing like in solo.
One idea I had one night to buff solo que to put it on-par with SWF, so they can even the scales even just a little bit, is to just.. Let survivors see their team's loadouts in the lobby. Now, I'm no code-brainer, but I imagine that wouldn't be ENTIRELY too difficult to implement, since at least one part of that loadout is already fully visible (items) and the rest is just some perk/offering icon UI.
As for Nurse,
I can't say her potential is "higher" than SWF, since I've witnessed firsthand some damn-brutal SWFing that made me literally unable to play the game as a fairly strong killer like Artist just by three people camping a pallet with top-tier flashlights, Any Means Necessary, etc., making it so I'm kinda just screwed no matter what I do, but what I can say,
EASILY the most needed nerf to Nurse is just to have blink attacks count as specials and not basics. It's... Honestly kinda baffling that they still haven't implemented that yet, seeing as even Blight's lethal rushes are counted as specials, and far, FAR weaker killers also have healthstate-dealing attacks that aren't M1s counted as specials despite, on paper and in practice, being pretty damn similar to an M1 (Pig's dash for example, AKA M1 with extra steps).
And also,
@xni6_ said:
shes got the lowest kill rate in the game. she needs some buffs.
- BHVR said themselves not to take the stats at face value
- That's lowest kill rate in the game AT ALL MMR, meaning pablogonzales2004 who just installed the game yesterday and happened to pick nurse also contributes to that statistic, as do more experienced players who try nurse a couple times and go "Man, I'm just losing over and over and over, I'm just gonna not do this and stick to a killer I can land a single attack with".
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@Pulsar said:
Some Killers with certain add-ons should not be able to play against Solo Q.
Discussion derailing 101 - Bring up a divisive point completely irrelevant to the topic to get eyes and minds off of the topic at hand.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193803#Comment_3193803
I’d say sweet tooth is a little more buff. He's built like a wrestler. Stocky and wide with a gut.
Yeah but imagine Kenneth in the harness Sweet Tooth wears around his chest. It'd be so good.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085401#Comment_3085401
No exhaustion perks? Blasphemy! 😤
I know this reply is probably super late in a thread that's probably been dead for weeks, replying to what's more or less an exaggerated joke stance, but regardless,
I've never really liked Exhaustion perks all that much, ngl, even back when Dead Hard was one spooky prospect for killers, even when my main survivor (Feng Min) comes with what I consider one of the better ones - They just never did it for me. And in the long run, I honestly think my bull-headed closed mindedness about Exhaustion helped me, because now,
I can run Self-Aware, Lightweight, Prove Thyself and Kindred, AKA no chase perks (unless you count Lightweight but I consider that more stealth than chase), and still get some pretty decent loop time, nothing spectacular, but probably a lot better loop time than if I was Madame Elizabeth Deadhardington pre-patch and was suddenly dropped head first into a world without Press-E-to-get-extra-30-seconds-out-of-chase mode.
So what's the point I'm really tryna make here?
Beats me, but if you can glean anything useful from my rambling tangent here, let it be this:
Sometimes, getting wrapped up in the META can not only make you a worse player over-all, but suck the fun right out of both your experience, and the experience of those around you. Count your blessings, don't be afraid to experiment around with your build or playstyle, and most importantly, have fun :)
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@Phantom_ said:
As a Leon main, I miss IW SO DAMN much. Guy's loud AF 😥 It would've been fine if they had nerfed it to just the 75% loudness, but not working when exhausted? Makes it utterly useless. Or heck even kept it at 100%, but have their breathing be audible.
DH should've stayed at 1s without the weird animation because some of us are being put in lobbies with killers with ping from another galaxy.
Agree on the rest.
I mean, on the IW thing,
You could just not use exhaustion.
Leon is loud af tho lol
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@Gary_Coleman said:
I'm curious as to how common this type of disconnect is for players? Its very frustrating when it happens.
I'm not sure as to the statistical norm of it as a flat number, however, speaking personally, it doesn't happen TOO too much, just seemingly only when I don't want it to happen. Likely some negativity bias thing going on there, but I distinctly remember the last times it happened were on Coldwind, against a Huntress, and on Lery's and MacMillan, both with me playing as Dredge. Likely isn't relevant to anything, but that's all the information I can really provide in terms of my experience with it.
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@Archvile said:
Currency-based punishments are ineffective because they're either too small or too large. If the bloodpoint/shard penalty doesn't grow quickly enough, then you're effectively not being punished for throwing the game. If it grows too quickly, you could potentially be punished so much it'd discourage you from playing completely. Imagine being multiple million bloodpoints in the red knowing you'll have to grind for hours just for a chance to get back to actually progressing. Or, if you don't care about progression for one reason or another, you could simply make your bloodpoint/shard debt grow indefinitely without really being impeded from ruining other people's games whenever you want.
The truth is that, when it comes to playing a game, wanting to play the game is the only assumption you can really make about the player (and even then, knowing DbD players, that wouldn't be correct a lot of the time), thus preventing them from playing when they want to play is the only real punishment you can dish out.
Fair enough then, when you put it like that, it starts to make a lot more sense. Thank you.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079964#Comment_3079964
When you find a way to apply a DC penalty to only the people who yank out their ethernet cables, let us know.
Gee, it's reductive, it's uninformative, it's snarky, and it didn't even make me laugh. Thanks, Tag!
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@Archvile said:
There's an option to disconnect because no self-respecting piece of software would ever ship without providing a way to sever connection with the server. As for the punishment, making it simply a matter of MMR would make it extremely rife for abuse. "Sweats" who care about their MMR don't disconnect for no reason. People who disconnect are people who think they're wasting their time. The thing is, feeling like you're wasting your time because you're playing against a killer you don't like/you don't feel like you can beat/because you're on a map that's got bad rng/whatever other reason is subjective. Leaving your teammates stuck in a likely unwinnable 3v1 match is objective fact. Because of this, the game needs to find a way to discourage such behaviour. Furthermore, if all it did was make you lose MMR, it would make smurfing extremely easy. You could tank your rating and get to bullying lower rate players in less than 30 minutes, probably.
So no possible better solution exists than "You no play game now"? You could eat out of their bloodpoint pool, make it go into the negatives if need be, you could have it cost them iridescent shards, maybe get those things' worth up. I feel like the matchmaking ban, whether for willful DCing or internet stutters, is a bit of a caveman solution. As SonicOffline put it up there, it may even be too lenient, on top of just being an annoying inconvenience that makes the experience of being suddenly booted from a match you may or may not be winning that much more subtly infuriating. Is my head entirely on backwards here, or does the matchmaking ban feel lacking?
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@Archvile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079883#Comment_3079883
Since there's no way to discriminate between people who disconnect of their own volition and those who don't, matchmaking bans are applied uniformly, but if we lived in a world where it was somewhat possible to do, then of course you'd have a very easy time punishing the people who are like "I quit!". It'd be like sending to prison the people who go to the police station to confess... way easier than catching those who run away.
And would simply losing MMR grade progression (or not gaining it from that match to begin with) not be sufficient enough? Do we have to bar players from experiencing the game at all? For players who are sweaty enough to DC just because they made one wrong move or were put against a killer they don't like, or on a map they don't like, that'd, at least in theory, be enough to discourage them from up and disappearing at the slightest provocation, and for people like me, with occasionally trash internet, it would make things completely outside of your control a lot less impactful than "Oh damn, my internet stuttered, guess I'm unable to simply walk it off and continue attempting to progress, thanks video game". Why even give players the option to DC in the first place in that case, so that it's ONLY connection fluctuations and the odd ethernet-cable-unplug to account for?
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@Archvile said:
If you're making an explicit request to be disconnected from the server, then yes, of course the server knows about that. But of course we don't really care about the people who are being straightforward, we're concerned with those who would try to cheat it. There's no reliable way for the server to tell what happened when you disconnect. All it knows is that the data you're supposed to have sent hasn't arrived. Imagine your job is, every day, to drop a little paper boat in a river. There's somebody near the sea who checks that the paper boat arrives safely. If one day the paper boat didn't arrive, how could they tell what happened? Did you forget? Did you feel ill and physically couldn't send the boat? Did you actually send the boat, but it got stuck in a rock? Was it splashed away by a fish or bird? There'd be no feasible way for them to tell whether you were negligent or if something happened to the boat.
We don't care about the people being straightforward? What's the point in a matchmaking ban at all at that point? Literally just to catch out dirty dirty ethernet-unplugging match dodgers and people who are already getting punished by their ISP merely for existing in an unoptimal space?
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@Archvile said:
The server doesn't know why you disconnected. All it knows is that it was receiving packets, and then it wasn't. Furthermore, not only not all modems take five minutes to reset (mine can easily reset in a matter of thirty seconds), but you don't need to kill the modem, you can simply remove the ethernet cable out.
Well, surely there'd be some way for the server to be able to tell why you disconnected? Or at least, make an estimation.
i.e., was the player giving movement input when they disconnected? Did they open the escape menu before the disconnect took place? Was the "abandon match" button pressed before they disconnected?
Kinda feels like it wouldn't be rocket science for such a thing to be in place, though granted, I have no idea what the code end of things looks like, and I, frankly, dread to.
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@Chaos999 said:
Let's just get the cyberdemon. OK, fine it's too much. Hell knight? Oh wait, that's just oni.
Ironically enough, you said Hell Knight and I thought of Quake's Hell Knight enemy. And then I got to thinking about that in a DbD context, and I gotta say,
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@Visi said:
I actually think base Nurse is fine, and even fun, to go against. I like that she plays completely differently from every other killer, and that it's reliant entirely on mindgames and breaking LoS in unconventional ways. Her addons, namely her range addons, however, are ludicrously OP. Many people seem unaware just how much they increase her blink speed. She becomes nigh unbeatable when a competent Nurse uses them. Also, her blink attacks should be considered special, as many exposure perks are stupidly powerful on her. Also also, she shouldn't be able to hold her first blink indefinitely, as she can use this to proxy camp; especially when using the aforementioned broken range addons.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062064#Comment_3062064
Then you're either going against really awful Nurses, or have miraculously found the few Nurses who aren't running one or both range addons. Omega Blink Nurse has no counterplay unless the Nurse is inept.
Ah yeah, I didn't realize that was a thing. If it wasn't apparent -
Nurse is not one of the killers I play very much.
That said, this is pretty absurdist, probably shouldn't be in the game the way it is at all lmao
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As somebody who plays plenty of Killer but also just an absurd amount of Survivor,
I generally find that playing against Nurse is one of the easier times I have. You just wait for her to charge her blink, then double back, and she's forced to either downflick to force her blink to be shorter, or try and go for the second blink after, and you can then play around with whether you decide to double back the next time she uses her blink, or keep running and have her downflick for nothing with the expectation of you doubling back - There's plenty of counterplay I've kinda just slowly discovered via facing her.
Playing Nurse is a whole other ballgame, I think I might just be trash with blinks though.
One of my favorite things about anti-loop killers is how it forces me to think differently about how I'm going to loop them, because you CAN loop an anti-loop killer, it just takes a different mindset than the usual, and more than anything, it takes paying attention to what the killer's doing.
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Hell from Hellraiser 2.
Worst part is, it'd probably be easier to navigate than RPD.