Chaos999
Chaos999
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- Chaos999
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I'm not one to camp and certainly not 3 Gen, but with the way these things are being handled on both sides, I get the feeling that soon, the "intended" way to play DBD, is going to become the only way, because it will be enforced, rather than encouraged.
Whether that's going to be a good or bad thing will depend on whether you enjoy that or even can do it with any degree of proficiency.
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@Bardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422253#Comment_3422253
Sorry, you don't get to control the conversation.
Secondly, you stated that if BHVR are concerned about upsetting people "they can just ask the Arab community".
This assumes that the Arab community is a monolithic whole where everyone believes the same things exactly.
No group of human beings with more than one member has everyone believe the same things exactly.
So that's not really feasible.
This is actually incorrect.
It's a well known fact that both the "killer main" and the "survivor main" communities of DBD work on a hive mind basis and all individuals in those communities share the same beliefs and are equitably responsible for the state of the game.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3413205#Comment_3413205
Killers complained quite a lot about healing (speeds, access, all of it) so that was adjusted. But it’s foolish to think that the devs would nerf healing and then also allow killers to heavily manipulate Gen speeds. Doing so would inflate the kill rates too much and believe it or not but the devs do actually want there to be a percentage of survivors who escape the match. The game isn’t a murder simulator.
Largely agree.
In fact I believe no amount of tweaking back and forth to gens speed and regression will ever do.
I'm of a belief that Gen speed and hook progression should be a constant. No gen speed perks and addons, toolboxes can have different uses. Sabotage hooks, repair electrical switches to open shutters, hide gate open progression for a few seconds, turn off certain map lights for a minute, turn on machinery as a distraction (loud noise), etc.
Also scrap all Gen slowdown, defense and regression. Make it a constant (also kobe no longer speeds up sacrifice, make it so you simply lose a % of match BP.)
After this, then you can balance everything else around this one constant. Healing, chase, powers, maps.
Giving any side the ability to manipulate the one objective survivors have to complete if they actually want to win was a mistake. People will always find the most extreme way to use that ability on either side, no matter what you do, it will always be a problem. The moment they no longer are a problem is because you made them irrelevant. We are at that point and seeing the consequences. Survivors will continue to maximize Gen progress to it's utmost extreme, without killers having a counterargument. Killers will now gravitate towards healing interference. But I don't think that is going to work all that well.
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@Solo_Queue_is_Hell said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3413205#Comment_3413205
So you're basically saying killers only win when survivors allow them to, as a kind gesture. Or the 4 survivors make massive blunders, like baby stuff, otherwise it's a no win scenario for killers.
Ok. 🙄
Yes. Though you take it out of proportion by a lot. Massive blunders throughout the game by all 4 survivors is not necessary to win, that's just a slaughter. Sometimes it takes just a few small mistakes to turn a tight match around with the snowball, sometimes it takes more, specially during late or end game if the survivors have been efficient.
But the truth of it is that it's the early game when mistakes matter more. Get a hook or 2 and a few injuries by Gen 4 or 3.5 and you might be able to keep the pressure throughout the match and have a good game for everyone.
However, the fact is that competent survivors will not go down on a map full of resources. It's no longer a secret how to run each tile and stay safe during extended chases by chaining tiles together. The only way for it to happen is.... You guessed it, the survivor made a mistake and went down. Of course the killer also needs to capitalize on the mistake, otherwise it won't do a thing, but no amount of killer proficiency is going to make up for perfect survivor gameplay.
Again, certain killers can subvert this dynamic, such as nurse and blight. Spirit to an extent.
So, yes, weaker killers depend on survivor mistakes in order to have a chance to win. Without those mistakes you will find these killers have little agency on the outcome of the match.
Though somehow I doubt you will really give consideration to my words. Didn't strike me as the reflective type.
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It's kinda funny how many "win chases quickly" I see repeated when, against competent survivors, the duration of the chase is largely based on survivor mistakes, not killer proficiency.
You can't win chases quickly unless the survivor lets you. Unless you're a godlike nurse.
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Could have rescued and then stand there and die.
In the end, everyone wanted to win. Shared responsibility.
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Reality check.
Whatever it's they do on their established deadlines it has to create revenue, otherwise it's bad business.
A chapter without new stuff to sell will not create revenue, so it's highly unlikely to happen.
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Scummy and valid strategy aren't mutually exclusive so....
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Review bombing doesn’t mean what you likely think it does.
Review bombing is when a large amount of negative reviews are posted due to something not directly related to the game.
For instance, hogwarts legacy was review bombed not because the gam wasn't good or because there was something they didn't like, but because people don't like the author of the source material, who wasn't even directly involved in making of the game.
In DBDs recent case, people are simply expressing their opinion on changes made to the actual game, so it's not considered review bombing.
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Of course they should exist. Without it a single healthy survivor could dive bomb the hook without a second thought (and without a second wasted) ignoring the killer defending it.
Right now it creates mind game potential that should not be removed.
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Title might as well be:
"say something polemic to spark discussions. I'll go first"
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OTR disables on conspicuous actions, so it's better if you struggle with being tunneled or if you intend to goad the killer into chasing immediately off the hook to draw the aggro.
DH remains active until you use it, so it remains a powerful on demand endurance perk that does not preclude you from being useful outside of a chase.
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@ehe said:
Its almost like tying a perk like DH to hooks will almost always encourage unfun gameplay...
sometimes I wonder why the balance team exists lol, so many good community suggestions but nope they need to be original or get fired.
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Funny thing is that it could be argued that the fact that they adjusted some of the changes that people didn't like the most shows the review bombing worked.
Expect to see it more often.
Those who review bombed right now:
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392866#Comment_3392866
Self heal times were kept.
You can only Self heal using either a medkit (nerfed to 24s) or Selfcare (as always, takes ages)
How was it an 'extreme' killer nerf when only three killer perks got nerfed, which aren't at all necessary and many killers don't use anyway?
I never use CoB, Overcharge or Pain Res, my killer games are completely un-nerfed. And I main M1 killers like Ghostface and Pig.
I'm even more inclined to use Pain Res again now, as it'll be much more strategic in choosing when to hook on a scourge based on gen progress, and I just like running healthy anti-camp/tunnel perks anyway, like MYC. (It provides proof I wasn't camping/tunnelling when I inevitably get accused of doing so)
I don't use those perks either. I main wraith with coxcombed/all seeing combo and pain resonance, enduring, spirit fury, bamboozle perks. The update actually greatly benefits me, given my play style.
There is however no denying that I still get destroyed by efficient survivors and that, while sure some killers do fine without heavy regression because they either have it build in or they are super aggressive and can end chases very fast, not every killer is like this and there is a clear portion of the player base that are going to find themselves against the same old super efficient survivors, with nothing to push back.
You seem to like new pain resonance, because you can be strategic with it, but honestly I don't think it's gonna be much use for me anymore. It was never a consistent value perk to begin, but now it's even more inconsistent. I'm gonna try it out, but I kinda feel I'm going to be replacing it with something else soon. Since there is no slowdown perks anymore I'm thinking information?
What could be a good 4th chase perk?
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Mmm. Self heal times should have been kept in my opinion, but let's see how things turn out.
Overall this feels like an extreme killer nerf while only a slight survivor nerf.
Lets me wondering where are slower, methodical killers going to get their slowdown from...
Seems like all recent changes are focused on making the game chase oriented, while discouraging tunneling and camping, but they don't address the fact that survivor efficient gameplay remains just as strong and that chase outcome currently largely relies on survivors mistakes rather than killer agency.
I would be thrilled to see changes made to the maps that actually encourage chase based builds, as well as new powerful chase perks
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I think the main problem people has with dead hard is not the extra health state, but rather the timing of its application.
Exhaustion perks such as sprint burst tend to trigger early in the chase, letting the killer choose not to commit with only moderate time lost.
Other endurance perks also tend to trigger early.
Dead hard, as it is triggers at the very end of a full chase loop, which against competent, defensive survivors can be something like this:
Start chase, loop twice, pallet, run to new loop. Loose mind game and hit, 30 to 45 seconds lost.
Run to new loop, pallet, etc, another 30-45 seconds, hit, dead hard.
At this point, anything from 1 to 3 generators start popping and killer has already committed, leaving now would be a mistake, so he has to go for another chase loop and if the player now chooses to run to a very strong tile or plays very defensively, it can extend for another 60 seconds.
Regardless of the killer choice at this point, he has already lost the match unless something major happens, and he has very little agency about it.
This is why I think the changes are exactly what's needed.
Now survivors cannot pre win the match during early game and DH should start appearing when at least some map resources have already been used up.
Dead hard will still be a powerful, change the course of the match, skill, but just one per match, per player, which is balanced considering how much it can affect the outcome with just one good chase.
Dead hard will now be used by survivors who are actually confident in being able to get value out of a chase in the right moment, maybe to push back against a pressured game, or get that last Gen done.
I think it's mostly modestly skilled players who liked the low risk, low skill, high reward, who are complaining.
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Isn't DBD in the extended support part of its lifespan?
I don't think there is a full active development team working on it anymore, so they probably don't have dedicated testers.
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Well, you can play the way of the Bush. Or you can punish tunneling. Sure sometimes you will get outplayed, but once you learn how to play chase, you can draw chases for ridiculously long times.
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While there is definitely a subset of players that play specifically to make other players miserable and that sometimes you see them in coordinated groups, I overall agree with your point.
The actual occurrence of this kind of matches is actually quite low, of course from my own gameplay experience, can't speak for everyone.
Even in such case, what happens in those games can hardly be characterized as bullying, but people sometimes are overly sensitive and very vocal about it.
The funny thing is that when playing killer (which is 90% of my gane time) there are few things I enjoy more than a good ol "bully squad". Because I'm almost certainly going to win and I can enjoy their crazy stunts without worrying too much about gens.
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@Phasmamain said:
I’ll have you know as a 10 thousand hour trapper main I win every match with no perks or add-ons
I’m currently on a 200 win streak too :)
Please VOD, how can I find you?
I really enjoy trapper and love big brain trapper moves and would love to learn more.
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SB does work wonders.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383837#Comment_3383837
The game is not, no. Some people might be, on the other hand, and their use of meta perks can further drive others to use meta perks to counter them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using the best perks to improve your chances of winning, but you should always expect them to be adjusted if that's the case. It's on us to make sure that there aren't undisputed best perks and instead a lot of different options to pick from depending on your playstyle.
I think the issue with this approach is that in this patch it was largely just nerfs. With players choosing "the next best thing" as the new meta, we end up with a weaker meta, but a meta nonetheless, that will still favour the same things. Regression, Gen speed, etc, just weaker.
And next time? Nerf the new meta again and so on? Until perks become gimmicky and inconsequential.
That in essence isn't that bad, until you factor in the elephant in the room. Not all killers are made equal. Sure some might do well with weak perks or no perks at all against similarly skilled survivors. But not all of them. You are fostering a "character meta" rather than a perk meta and does not sound fun at all.
And if this leads to character powercreep where every new chapter releases killers and survivor perks tailored to do well with the current meta, well....
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I can't believe the amount of serious response this thread got!!!
I mean how isn't that nobody just called bait?
There is no way this is a serious suggestion xD
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Circle of (come) heal me.
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If we can get base healing changes reverted, maybe there is hope for pain resonance as well, so let's hope for that.
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Love the leaps of logic people come here to validate.
I did something good, then someone else did something bad. Now I'll stop doing good things and be mean instead.
And of course you expect people to tell you it's ok .
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@Belzher said:
So, I've just read the new patch notes for PTB, and the only thing that came to my head was: "why is there not a single change about Blight, Spirit or some other super strong killer addons?"
Let's take the sonic boy for example, Alchemist Ring and double speed are still a very common thing, because why wouldn't you use such a strong thing that helps you being even better at the game? Blight is almost 3 years old now, and instead we had a Billy change that even people who plays him didn't like. I don't understand how they make decisions there, but looks like some killers are really more loved than others even when comes to balance.
Office work logic.
I have a to do list of problems, goals and projects, every month I'm evaluated based on how many of them get done vs how many new pop up.
So in the alloted evaluation period I can work and finish 5 of these goals because I already understand the problem, have a rough idea of the solution and can do it relatively fast.
Or I can spend resources in a complex issue that I don't really know how to approach and requires analysis and testing to maybe have a chance to get solved. Of course this will also cause my list to actually grow by the deadline.
Which one you think will look better during my evaluation?
See the issue this is why in most objective based office works there are always lingering problems that don't get solved, because no one want to be the one to do it. It takes either strong leadership, highly competent workforce or external help to finally address them.
You won't see the last 2 in a maintenance crew for a years old video-game service, the competent, talented and overachievers will be working on new projects and there is no budget for expensive external problem solvers. The first one, well you might have it or you might not. Care to wager which is the case?
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I'm seeing pharmacy becoming meta in the near future, so, definitely getting ready to complain about it and have it nerfed
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I'm calling now. Self care use rate is going to increase after this, and then is going to be nerfed as a result.
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Can't wait for survivors to start running self care again and heal for 40 seconds straight, instead of working gens.
On the other hand, playing plague now will actually buff survivor healing rather than neutralizing it.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377342#Comment_3377342
This raises a really good point and its often the point I'm trying to convey.
Another player isn't immediately a terrible person just because they really get into a game, even a PVP game.
Most of the posts bemoaning this are making pretty negative assumptions about the other player.
i.e. To play like this you must be...
- Angry
- out to ruin other peoples fun
- just out of a bad game and wanting revenge
- a bully
- a bad person
You don't know anything about your opponent so why assume.
To equate a bad game experience with real world bullying just does a disservice to people who've suffered from real world bullying.
Well, it's nice to see someone who shares my POV. It means I'm the only one crazy. I mean.
Honestly the dbd community has always struck me as strange.
I have played my fair share of online games that are somewhat infamous for their toxic community and taking the game too seriously, such as LOL and WOW, but dbd stands out.
It's not that there are toxic players, you can find those essentially in any online game, except lotro, and DBD doesn’t seem to me to have such a big toxicity problem.
Rather is the community's negativity. I mean even in other games people will just call others names or wish them harm or even be idiots in the match, but nobody gets their day ruined for it or suffers anxiety and calls out bullying. They just trash one another and move on. Like drivers honking at each other on the street. Sure you have your extreme cases, but not like this.
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I can understand how your attempts at being nice being met with such behavior could be demoralizing, however being nice should be its own reward.
Be nice simply because you want to, not because you expect something in return from those you are nice to.
As a side note, if you managed 3k playing nice with demogorgon, then you more than likely were significantly more skilled than the survivors and while that doesn't excuse them, it certainly explains the saltiness
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377342#Comment_3377342
Pulsar doesnt play hero, he just want to play the game.
Yes, yes of course. I've said my piece and evidently it doesn't fit with the official narrative sanctioned by the forum concensus, so I'll leave you all to your thing.
See. You in the fog.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377011#Comment_3377011
I'm not convinced that uber tunneling and killing someone off at 5 gens, then bleeding people out, then refusing to let them bleed out is simply "oh, he's just roleplaying being a Killer"
This was four Solo's. He had literally already won a minute into the game. There was no bully squad.
You just don't get it and that's OK.
I know. You're the heroic type, a lot of people like to be play being the noble hero. I like to as well, sometimes, but there is also those who like to play the villain. There is a reason why the villains are often among the most popular characters in fiction works, sometimes even more than the heroic protagonists.
Like I said, I do believe that, in the example you gave, that was quite a bit much and I have very little doubt that the killer player was indeed trying to be a toxic AH, personally I wouldn't have gone that far, but nevertheless I find the sanctimoniousity and self-righteousness often displayed in forum posts not entirely unlike this one laughable.
I believe the root issue is people has trouble separating real life social interactions from social video game interaction. Chill out. Enjoy the ride. Laugh at the killer tripping over and letting you escape. Laugh at you messing up and ending up in the killers cruel hands.
Anyway, I like DBD too so at the very least I can understand your point of view, even if I don't quite share it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376995#Comment_3376995
Mmmm, no.
That's just psycho behavior
Lmao OK.
Guess there is no arguing with a zealot.
I hope your next games are more rewarding.
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@Pulsar said:
I know why people play like this. I understand that they've likely just come off of a very bad game.
However, holy ######### ######### dude. Immediately tunnel someone off of hook, hold a 3-gen, slug to death. I get it, you need a bounce-back game but some people get WAY to into this power fantasy.
I'm not allowed to bleed out, my teammates won't pick me up and I'm definitely not allowed to play the game. This Doctor had zero interest in playing Killer, he just wanted to make other people as miserable as possible. Nobody was even good on my team, myself included. Jonah and I kept missing skill checks, David got instantly turbo-tunneled and Thalita wasn't even sentient for the first two minutes. She had three crows the first time I saw her.
It's just extremely frustrating to want to play DBD but to be unable to have even a half-quality experience with the game. I'm close to P100 and I want to get there but when the bonus is on Survivor, I think I'm just going to sit out from now on.
Maybe look at this in a different light.
Maybe that killer player was roleplaying as the big bad wolf villain. An utterly unredeemable, cruel monster.
And by doing so he is giving the survivors a more authentic game experience. People often complain DBD has become a party game and that there is no longer any tension.
Perhaps relish the opportunity of a different experience? After, things could have been different and you might have won, overcome the terrible monster hell bent on reaping your suffering.
I do rolpeplay sometimes, though not to this extent and on a side note, as a killer main, there are few things more satisfying than facing a so called "bully squad" and ultimately break them, have them scatter before my superior power. And maybe, if I'm in the mood, let them go rather than giving them the finishing blow.
Just my 2 cents, a lot of things can be different depending on your POV
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I tend to agree on this, though I would not think a FOV is the way to go about it. Rather a higher base FOV for all killers.
360s should definitely not be a thing, counterable or not. Or at the very least should not be so easily done.
New perk please? Reduce FOV in exchange for buffs xD
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@Pulsar said:
That's all. Even with the bonus at 100%, I still find Survivors who often get less than I would if Killer had no bonus.
The BP discrepancy should be reduced, is there any reason why it shouldn't be?
Can we increase plague's BP gain while we are at it?
Please
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@Jurizaurz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373634#Comment_3373634
The killer's job is to find survivors and kill them, that's their primary options.
The survivor's job is to repair, and hide, help teammates. The 3 generators were nearby so we went into stealthy option, which is a part of survivor gameplay.
Thus saying, slugging is considered to be game hostage scenario because survivors aren't able to repair and help their teammates, yet killer doesn't use his option to hook survivors. So?
Actually, the survivor's main objective is to escape. Hiding indefinitely is not a survivor objective. Is a tool to help you progress your actual objective.
Thus hiding without attempting to do your objective does not progress the game and squarely falls on the holding the game hostage side of things.
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@Wewantjason said:
Dredge impacts survivors so he was killswitched
ormond impacts killers so it’s fine
it’s not really surprising at this point
This is actually an incorrect statement, which is also why the problem isn't considered game breaking.
The ormond bug does not only affect killers (neither the wagon). Both survivor and killers can get up there, so if a survivor gets cute and does this, you can just follow after them and hit them.
Honestly it's more of party trick than an exploit.
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Nightless city skyscrapers' roofs
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370080#Comment_3370080
Which is why Spirit has been left in the game, because the bug that basically unnerfs her doesn't affect survivors at all (or maybe it's because it isn't gamebreaking and thus doesn't meet the criteria to use the kill switch but that's just not as divisive of an argument is it)
Spirit is in The game? Where? I haven't seen her when I play there
I'm sorry....
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Mmm. Let me try giving you a different perspective.
If you play perfectly (or almost) do you expect to win by a fair margin and 4k the survivors? Based on your takes on the thread I'm gonna guess your answer would be yes.
What if the survivor players play perfectly? Should they expect to escape from the killer through the gate no problem? I would think so.
Both sides are entitled to agency from their performance, not just killers.
And when both sides play perfectly? You should expect a challenging match that ends with gates open and about 2 kills.
Also in this situation, the tiniest thing can easily sway the match to either side.
The problem here is that everyone want 4ks every game or 4e with 0 hooks every game.
Holding your fun to unreasonable expectations is the problem.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369537#Comment_3369537
I can deal with 2 of those but how exactly would you nerf gen rushing while making it a fair change for both sides. Are suggesting a basekit Corrupt or something?
Scrap all Gen speed modifiers. Make it a constant value. Balance. Profit.
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What exactly is a sex grab? Somehow I don't think it means what you all seem to think it means....
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This is more entertaining than playing the game.
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™
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I like when the other survivors gather up to try and save the poor guy, thinking they might be able to bodyblock or Sabo.
So everyone get to enjoy the view :)
Not everyone has witnessed the moris from another survivor perspective. Bonus points if their teammates tbag the moried XDDDDD