pseudechis
pseudechis
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Well look at it pragmatically, the RSI from clicking the blood web is nothing compared to the RSI of gaming in general, so your rationale for the auto clicker doesn't really stack up against the risk of getting banned.
Its the ergonomic equivalent of eating an ice cream sundae with hot fudge everyday but asking for no whipped cream because you are on a diet.
Sure you want to reduce time spent in the more tedious elements of the game like repeatedly clicking the bloodweb, but if you were generally concerned about RSI you would reduce gaming time altogether not just one minor aspect of it.
Also the act of logging off to do other things (chores or otherwise) is very psychologically healthy, when you are still logged in, even with an auto clicker, you are still logged in.
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DBD is simply a PvP game.
People can define it into whatever subjective category they wish.
In the end you are still gonna have a collection of players who think about, and are motivated to play, the game very differently from each other.
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The great thing about friends, good friends that is, even when you rip on each other at the end you are still friends.
No biggie, don't read to much into it.
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Play Trapper smart.
If chases and general placement isn't going well you need to switch up your strategy.
Don't try and lock down specific areas rather place a few random traps near good hook locations. Not just around loops but on paths where survivors often run. You'll find you catch multiple survivors in pathing traps over looping ones.
Always keep one trap handy, pretend to drop it to make a survivor leave a strong loop, use this to herd and box survivors into weaker areas.
Focus on getting hooks in the basement and lock it down. SWF's are often overly altruistic and fall for this very hard, getting caught up in rescuing over completing gens.
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It’s not like you have to pick one and only play it. Playing games isn’t a mutually exclusive pastime.
I still think DBD is the better and more broadly appealing game of the two. -
@Emeal said:
I see people here talking about secondary objectives and no punishments for Killers here.
Yet Survivors pull off Hooked Survivors still within my TR, and I should not take advantage of that?????
Ah you see, you aren't allowed to take advantage of that its not polite.
I hate it when a monstrous murderer in a nightmare realm kills me in an impolite fashion, its such a social faux pas.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724491#Comment_3724491
Just out of curiosity, what would/did you say to the post like "Chaos Shuffle showed that Killers need slowdown perks"?
There are 140 Survivor perks in the game, having one of them as base kit would still leave 139 for Chaos Shuffle. Besides that, I'm sure there are ways to incentivize target switching that do not include making anything basekit, so that would not interfere with Chaos Shuffle at all.
But my main point is not about Chaos Shuffle, it is just an alternative game mode, it does not need to be perfectly balanced, I think it just shows why people chose what they usually chose (having addons and items available is kinda dumb though and defeats the purpose more than any base kit perk imo, but that is besides the point).
Doing stupid moves is not the same as being tunneled. To add to your examples, if I go back to the gen injured after the unhook and the Killer finds me there it's my own fault. I'm sure there are survivors that would call tunneling in this case but you seem to think the majority would. You seem to think that players are mostly being tunneled because they don't know how to play smart and that is a bit insulting.
When a Killer really wants to tunnel in my experience they stay near the hook and search for the injured person right away, when they don't have line of sight on them at the time of the unhook. Playing sneaky when you are injured and the Killer is already near you is a lot harder because of the cries of pain and blood, also detection perks are popular, so hiding in this szenario ist really hard when you do not have perks available like otr, iw,.. If the Killer finds you, looping well is the only option and then we are back at square one.
"sigh" Why do people always accuse me of being just some killer main with biased views based on that premise alone. I realize the simplest concept is the easiest to argue but frankly its so narrow.
To your question about gen defence… I'd say the same thing.
As killer you have all the tools needed to pressure gens.
Yes gen defence and "anti-tunnel" perks make things easier, much easier, its why people run them, but they aren't mandatory.
There are plenty of vids about how to run structures, patrol and pressure gens, quickly find survivors. All basic game skills regardless of perks.
My advice to anyone who feels they need a particular perk to do well and want it base kit is… play without perks and addons for a bit and be sure to play the opposing side too.
…Or play atypical builds that don't involve common perks, now if only there was a game mode that had all players do that 🤔
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723573#Comment_3723573
I wouldn't say that it would defeat the new game mode's purpose, by that logic base kit bt would have made the Chaos Shuffle needless years ago when it was added.
Chaos Shuffle is still enjoyable to me even with the tunneling it just kinda sucks when you are playing for fun (no items, playing around with the random perks etc) in a fun mode and your opponent isn't. Before you say it, I know that this true for Killers aswell.
As for the normal game mode, I don't mind bringing otr every match, but it is locked behind a paywall and grind (same with ds unless you get lucky with a shrine), so especially newer players might not have it available and they are more vulnerable to tunneling anyway, so I do think some base kit tunneling protection would be nice. I know that would be a buff for survivors, so Killers would need a compensation.
In general your original advice kinda has the vibe "just get good and then tunneling want be an issued anymore" which is true in theory but not really helpful, because getting good takes time and is hindered by the lack of a good practice mode and playing cautious is kinda dependant on perks someone might not have available for one reason or another.
No the point is in chaos shuffle these frequently used perks aren't available, making them basekit defeats the purpose. Same way in lights out mode the map was darker and it made it a lot harder, if you want the ability to see well then I wouldn't play lights out mode.
The usual its too hard to play the game so please make built in perks.
Its not as simple as "get gud", its the more obvious engaging in poor play is bad for survival.
Running around making heaps of noise is bad for survival.
Making unsafe unhooks is bad for survival.
Body blocking with BT rather than using it to flee is often very bad for survival.
Getting found first is bad for survival.
Running blindly away from the killer with no plan is bad for survival.
Yes people get "tunnelled" but even without perks you have a myriad of tools to deal with being "tunnelled". They are the same tools you use in any chase "tunnelled" or otherwise.
Until a player does get some experience with skills and perks, cautious play is smart play. It's entirely to possible to exercise caution regardless of perks, none of what I listed above requires perks and will ensure better survival.
It's just a shame that many players, regardless of skill level, appear not very smart. You are gonna die a lot in DBD especially at the start. Some learn from it and grow, some tantrum and quit.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722806#Comment_3722806
I don't want to revieve our old discussion but there is still no good way to practice looping.
And cautious play is a lot easier when you have perks like off the record available (I mean the aura protection and the muffled sounds, not the endurance) which you might not have in Chaos Shuffle.
but if it’s only relevant to the chaos shuffle game mode then adding base kit mechanics that mimic perks that you don’t have due to the new game mode, defeats the purpose of the new game mode anyway.
If you want those perks play the base game.
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@LeFennecFox said:
Mori offerings can problematic gameplay wise and honestly I would be glad to get a nice bp refund for all of the ones I have saved up. I don't think they would change perk related moris just because they're giving some form of basekit mori in the future.
one would hope that mori related perks would remain the same. There is plenty of room for “problematic” gameplay with a finisher mori too.
I just don’t see the change as necessary.
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@aewi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723364#Comment_3723364
yeah bhvr is just scrapping 2 hook moris entirely and reworking the offerings into bloodpoint offerings and are going to change rancor and devour hope, it's not a big deal, everyone should get over themselves, it's such a minor thing. because i don't care about it that means no one should. i'm an empath.
Any Devour changes would be a big kicker for me. I run DH a lot and getting to 5 stacks for some super mori fun is really rewarding.
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@Blueberry said:
Doesn't really affect game play from any aspect. Simply allows us to see cool mori's more often and them make more money selling unique mori's.
actually it minimises content. Takes a gameplay element and just makes it an endgame novelty rather than a playable aspect. It changes things a bit more than you think.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722799#Comment_3722799
I mean when they already quit over nothing then why care about them? Just because some guys will DC over every little thing does not mean we should not add useful features.
fair enough.
Given how voice chat can largely nullify parts of the game I’m still not a fan. Thinking calling out stealth killer locations and trap setups.
The unknown is part of the game and voice chat kinda kills it. -
@aewi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722810#Comment_3722810
I agree saboing is overtuned now.
That’s really the only issue.
I’m already thinking up some strong sabo builds to try out and go for a supportive hook denial role in game.
Which, and I state this again whole heartedly, just like 3-gen, slugging, flash saves and any other unconventional build not based around gens or chases is perfectly fine to play.
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@aewi said:
I definitely get frustrations of slugging being more incentivized and sabo being buffed for some reason… but i'm hearing the words "The sabo squad meta is gonna come back in a big way with the changes"?
Look, I can tell sabo squads are going to be stronger, honestly even overbuffed. But… sabo squad meta? Really? Are we reading the same patchnotes?
The 50% sabo boxes are overbuffed. But I don't think they're reviving sabo squad meta overbuffed. Remember, meta implies this is the Most Efficient Tactic Available. It'll be good, but will it be the most efficient? I don't think so. Not to cast like "oh, your complaints are so invalid", not what I'm saying. But, I think we as a collective need to understand this is a case of overbuffing, it's not a case of it being the end of the world.Alrighty “meta” is the wrong term to use. But sabo squads were a big thing and more common than folks likely remember.
It wasn’t the end of the world but it was largely maligned. Also it was a tool for the teams not focused gens but rather just dragging out the game and getting in the killers face.
Now again not the end of the world but when a killer does that with 3 gen or slugging it’s apparently toxic, when a sabo squad does it it’s not? It’s a tedium design that is perfectly fine but tedium designs are often maligned and complained about.
While the concept of a sabo squad is fine gameplay wise the current speed of the sabo will likely need some toning down.
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You don’t need anti tunnel perks and mechanics to counter tunneling though.
Cautious play and good chases are a great counter to tunneling.
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@duygu said:
once again the same lame excuses for arguments:
"solo q is horrible, we need to buff it without buffing swf"
but when you bring up that tc/vc would equalize things, they respond with this
"it's not gonna be enough to matter and would be worse for the game overall" just false
"there's gonna be toxicity"' name a 2024 multiplayer game that has vc but not a mute option alongside. this is also the same community that finds literal gameplay mechanics and SKINS toxic.
"ruins the immersion" there's no immersion to be had past 20 hours.
"language barriers" regions are separated and most people in the world know enough english, this is maybe a problem in 1/100 games.
"moderation nightmare" bhvr is not a small company anymore
"swf will always be better anyway" so lets not bother making soloq experience enjoyable. sound logic.
sometimes i wonder if the dissenters are actually dedicated killer mains in disguise.
here's why they dont take the only real way to equalize swf and solo q. it's because it would expose how stupidly balanced this game is and how useless a vast amount of perks and certain killer aspects are while also making certain perks OP. they would need to change that much in ONE patch, and bhvr simply isn't up to that task.
they can't admit that the game isn't balanced. they've placed an inaccurate MMR system so killers are satisfied with free 10 wins and 2 losses. meanwhile soloq players are told to accept this 60% average kill rate because it's the norm when you can't trust your teammates and it makes the rare wins more satisfying.
just sad how the same people that want a better gameplay experience will make nonsense arguments against it. the community has no right to complain about this glaring balance issue that has been here since forever if they can't accept the one real solution.
You make some good points but how many players will just quit out if some of the team don’t use the chat.
People already quit at the slightest provocation, and half the team opting out of chat would just give the quitters another excuse.
I doubt it would add as much as people think given how quick a rather large section of the dbd player base is willing to just bow out the moment the game isn’t perfectly what they want.
I wouldn’t be using the voice chat because frankly the game is better without it as survivor.
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if you want what SWF have then find some friends and play with them. That’s what SWF is.
As a solo player I wouldn’t use the random voice chat. The likelihood of having some giant emotional baby scream in your ears or an arm chair general dolling out commands is all to high in a charged environment like pvp.
Also being on voice chat kills a lot of the game’s tension. Even my SWF pals don’t tend to use it much during game except for making funny comments and quips.
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The whole point of the game is kills. It’s a slasher after all.
A slasher where the survivors are not under threat of death is a dull affair.
Your dot points are highly subjective.
As survivor the games where you have to fight to survive are the most thrilling, fun and rewarding, regardless of escape or death.
As killer, killing all the survivors by any means necessary is rewarding and fun. Moris are the best.
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It’s a bit of a stretch because the stranger things Vecna and demogorgon aren’t the DnD Vecna and demogorgon. They are simply nick names for unrelated things because the kids in the show play DnD and that’s their reference point for naming things.
You can see with all the streamers saying “it’s vecna from stranger things!” That the DnD source material isn’t as widely followed as you would think.
Not saying they can’t do a skin but if it’s a dnd licence then it’s not a stranger things licence. Unless there is further collaboration then I’d doubt it.
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it’s more the sabo is a bit too fast and will likely be toned down lil.
The sabo squad meta is gonna come back in a big way with the changes. Which is not the worst thing in the world, until players start complaining about slug builds and gameplay.If it’s that easy to hook deny then slug and mori become more viable strats.
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There is nothing wrong with it. The 4mins provided by bleed out is greater than the 2 mins provided by a hook. A killer is free to use that time if needed.
As survivor when slugged I crawl to a common hatch spawn location and try my luck. I've hatched out more than once.
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@Nazzzak said:
It sucks. Makes me wish I was fortunate enough to die second. I dump all my clean clothes in the theatre room to be folded when this happens, so at least I get some housework done.
So its a good thing, otherwise you'd have no folded clothes!
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There are a few options.
- Chase them out the door, you have a big weapon in your hand… use it.
- Spend two mins breaking stuff and/or spamming your power for the extra BP's.
- Do something else, make a cup o tea, use the bathroom, watch a movie etc.
Lastly don't fret the lil things.
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@haktas said:
Do the survs want to win? Yes.
Do the killers want to win? Yes.
Can survs do gen rush? Yes.
Can killers do tunnel? Yes.
I dont see a problem here. Sometimes im playing 2 perks blight no gen perk but survs do gen rush and i dont cry about that. I cant do nothing about that and if they want to escape then they have to repair gens. Isnt it? Killers have to kill survs thats all. You cant do nothing about that. Also they removed losing pips
Spoken like a true pragmatist and I whole heartedly agree.
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@For_The_People said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719704#Comment_3719704
I agree about the baseline bp bump - I’d even say make it so the category for ‘success’ isn’t just about escaping - I would imagine many casuals can still gain satisfaction from their games even if (like me) they end up dying 99% of their matches.
I run a discord server with c. 150+ people (all casuals and in game friends - we don’t do voice comms, just chat randomly while playing and a vehicle for finding people to play with when tired of pure solos) and I can honestly say nobody cares too much about if they ‘destroyed killers’ (in fact about half the peeps are friends I made who are killer mains but had fun with - and I don’t mean through just farming or being ‘friendly’ killers’). I think most people like the horror experience but it just isn’t that great to be tunnelled and slugged. As things stand (emphasis on this) it is a game mechanic to be slugged and camped to a degree so no point blaming killers.
The consensus amongst my server and through my own observations is that repeatedly being subjected to perceived bm (tunnelling, slugging, flashlight, sabo, teabags etc) tends to perpetuate a mentality of us v them and the build up of frustration means at some point people end up doing these things themselves as retaliation against someone - then the cycle repeats.
sorry kind of went of topic but you’re a vet on this forum (and I always have your name in mind when facing myers lol).
Would be interesting to hear your thoughts.Very true as almost anything in game that hinders your opponent can be seen as some form of antagonism. The more one sided its feels the greater the sense of antagonism.
I'm afraid there is a one sided aspect to a lot of survivor play. You don't have control over whether a killer leaves you on the ground or picks you up, leaves or defends (AKA camps) the hook, chooses to chase you or someone else (AKA tunnelling). But that's kind of the point of the game.
DBD emulates a survival horror. You are at the whim of the killer and trying to escape, just like a horror movie. I enjoy DBD because of this, when playing either role.
Unfortunately this can breed resentment among players, especially if they feel targeted. That resentment is projected onto their opponents (and/or teammates) and we go from I don't like this mechanic, to anyone who does this is a *insert chosen expletive*.
Similarly anytime the killer feels not in control it breeds the same resentment and experienced survivor play is personified as "Bully squads".
Players will often engage in the most obnoxious of one sided play themselves even as they bemoan it from their opponents, either out of frustration, or some misguided sense of tit-for-tat justice, or just simple lack of personal insight etc… I don't pretend to assume a player's motivation. But round the merry-go-round we go, for one begets the other.
There is likely only a very narrow bandwidth of players whom are genuinely "bully squads" or malicious players (killer or survivor) out purely to ruin the fun. But we've created the boogieman and now we see him everywhere.
It clouds a lot of discussion about gameplay and mechanics. I do wonder if the opponent was a really hard to beat AI using every tactic to its maximum and not a person, would people still get so riled up over gameplay?
Your discord sever sounds awesome by the way.
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@UndeddJester said:
Hmmmm... it's an interesting debate, and it's hard to deny how scary it is to be up against Devour Hope or Rancor... it'd be a shame to lose their effects, as they both cause a "Oh crap" moment once the survivors realise its in play.
With Mori's being basekit, if its something that needs to be earned, such as a 10 hook minimum to mori the last survivor, then it does attain a certain rarity… not only do you have to win, but you also have to win convincingly...
The creation of more moris for each killer also has potential to retain the novelty of moris, as players who have a Main will have unique flavours for their killers.
That said I'm against being transported off into the somewhere plane of existence. If the camera is a problem, I'd be more in favour of once a mori is triggered the camera gains no clip, and all terrain above floor level between the camera and the killer is occluded.
So overall, I don't hate the idea... but I think I'd prefer somewhere in the middle, keeping perk moris, adding basekit moris and offerings being a mori bloodpoint bonus.
The idea of a hook minimum would preserve their rarity to some extent. But it's still a system that largely takes mori'ing (at least offerings) out of the hands of the player. Also there is a tedium in obtaining hook minimums as its often at the mercy of other players.
I'll acknowledge there can be some serious clipping issues with the animation especially from floor items (grass etc). Some of the more cinematic moris I've seen were due to obstruction though.
I got mori'd by a hag behind some barrels on Hawkins. All you could see was my feet, the Hag's arms flailing and blood splatter. She then emerges from behind the barrels chewing on my liver, it was very cinematic I wish I'd screen capped it.
The whole teleport to a special mori location is so cheesy and on the nose, I really do hope that idea is dead.
Part of the appeal of moris is its another way to die in game, it adds variety and flavour. Relegating it to just a match end novelty is kinda meh. They definitely need to keep it on perks like devour.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Hot take, I think it’s a great idea and hope they make and sell a bunch of moris. You’ll see Moris way more often (because almost nobody uses them currently) If you want to Mori 4 people in a match you can use Devour Hope (which is more fun) And I think the changes are for the best.
Why stifle creativity? What does the finished Mori hurt? The 0.00000000000001% chance you crawl to hatch? It’s also stops you from being slugged out for 4 minutes if you’re the last alive (it’s happened to me plenty of time) People complain and hate on something without having any idea what it’s like, it’s not like the old version where everyone died. It’s better and more fair.You make a fair point, but my concern is that moris will just become monetized cut scenes at game end rather than flavourful aspects of gameplay.
No one is trying to stifle creativity rather we'd like to see it implemented in a better way. Teddy bear trapper already demonstrates that its possible to tie a custom mori to a cosmetic.
As for bleeding out etc. all the things that supposedly annoy people at game end are still there. There is just a tacked on mori cut scene that you also have to skip now if you simply want to move on with your game.
While its just and announcement and we'll have to see how it works in the PTB, the new concept really isn't a great one compared to the current system. I'm not against change but its gotta be change for the better and this doesn't seem like it. It wasn't last time its likely again not great this time.
Outside of offering another option to shill out money for a new cosmetic, it seems the concept detracts from gameplay more than adds to it.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718634#Comment_3718634
still haven’t gotten around to play any of these (and only watched Until Dawn and Quarry)
But yeah, Quarry had a promising beginning I think, interesting cast, the old lady with the tarot cards reminding of the therapist from Until Dawn while not feeling like a copy but then it was just… over? No climax, many characters were just there and nothing else.. it felt rushed. And thinking about the layoffs at Supermassive i don’t have the highest hopes for Frank
Man of Medan is pretty consistent throughout. Sticks to the robust 3 act system of story telling for the most part. I'd recommend it.
Problem with the Quarry (avoiding spoilers) is you have the build up which works, it's a lil romance novel dramatic at times but overall good. There is foreshadowing and bad decisions setting up the second act where it all goes to pieces and then…
We hit a road block, multiple chapters of flashback exposition telling us stuff we largely already know and the story, and gameplay, falls off a cliff.
This forces new character interactions trying to build rapport/animosity in the middle of what should be the 3rd act lead-in to the finale, but instead becomes the 4th act post flashback drag.
In the middle of building to the finale we have all this dialogue trying to further character development that's completely out of place and kills all tension. They really try to sell the risk and time limitation to build that tension, but it's all forgotten for scene after scene pausing to discuss unrelated character tropes that should have either been written into the first two acts or just dropped completely.
They could cut roughly a 3rd of playable chapters from The Quarry and still tell the exact same story with much tighter and more thrilling narrative.
These are narrative driven games, basically playable choose your own adventure novels. If you kill the narrative you kill the game. I still generally enjoyed it but The Quarry really shoots itself in the foot and I probably won't replay it.
I hope the Casting of Frank Stone doesn't repeat this kind of story mistake.
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@aewi said:
yeah.. i agree with others, they must be planning some monetary system with moris… i don't see why they're pushing out finisher mori otherwise with this much backlash. they make it seem like they've cracked the code, when even a lot of the people fine with basekit yellow mori are AGAINST the mori offerings being turned into bp. this at LEAST needs to be cooked in the oven for longer, preferably not added at all.
Moreso when they have demonstrated its possible to customize moris with custom cosmetics. If wanting to monetize moris do it that way and leave the current offering, perk and addon system intact.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I agree. Imo moris are special and fun because they DON’T happen every game. Making them a common occurrence is going to ruin them.
I would definitely be disappointed to see Devour Hope lose its moris again like it almost did last time, it made the perk very boring and removed the part that made it fun to use.
Yeah any changes to DH in that respect would really suck.
DH is a staple in a lot of my killer builds simply because of how rewarding it is to get those 5 stacks. Both mechanically and fun wise.
Mori's are interesting because of the limited nature of their deign. You either have to spend BP's for offerings or build up to it with game mechanics.
Having the last kill just just play a mori animation, is a really lackluster idea. Its going to become one of those repetitive cut scenes you have to sit through at game end that don't really add any flavour.
Especially when you consider it will likely remove the actual flavour of moris in order to implement them as a built in cut scene.
Its almost as if someone sitting in a development meeting said "how can we make this interesting and impactful thing less interesting and impactful?"
"I know just take it out of the hands of the players and make it a generic cut scene"
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719697#Comment_3719697
Did I change the match result though?
we’ll never know, you quit before you had a chance to make any difference.
Also if you simply quit a game when facing something about legitimate play that you don’t like, then you really shouldn’t play.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719704#Comment_3719704
Well, in my case, I was genuinely being tunneled by a Blight with double speed add-ons. He didn't care at all about the other survivors. He just wanted me out asap. I got mad, DC'd in his face.
That was after facing Huntresses in 4 prior games - Yes, I absolutely hate Huntress, and with a good reason.
When I said 9/10 games of tunneling, I wasn't really lying. Granted, I did not get tunneled in more than a few games, but I had teammates who did, including my friend whom I duo'ed with.
I did not face versus you, but I understand the frustration of being constantly accused of tunneling, despite not doing it.
However, my point is that in 90% of my games today, someone has been tunneled out at 4 or 5 gens, with the killers running the same 4 out of 6 perks (Pain Res + Pop, Deadlock, Dead Man's Switch, Grim Embrace, Nowhere to Hide). It gets repetitive and boring, really fast.bummer no but why DC it doesn’t punish the killer player it only punishes yourself and your team mates. It’s like seeking revenge by just punching yourself in the face.
As for other players being tunnelled and the frequency of tunnelling. Well if chased yourself you can say hey I was tunnelled.
when I comes to team mates well that can be a little greyer. Most times if I do hook a survivor again off hook it’s because a scenario organically arises giving me the chance to do so.I.e. - Their rescuer sprints off and they run into my face. I fail to find another survivor and happen across the same one healing in a weak position. You can’t blame a killer for taking advantage of that. So not all “tunnelling” is the implied malicious targeting of a player that people like to make it out as.
The killer isn’t expecting their opponents to stop doing gens for a bit so they can have a breather so why should a survivor player expect the killer to pause their objective. It’s a real double standard on what’s permissible in game.
A lot of players claim unfair tunnelling in those scenarios and not having a front row seat to it as another survivor you only have their subjective take on what happened. I see this a lot from streamers who like to claim tunnelling in any scenario and always frame it maliciously as the killer out to ruin their fun.Now as for frequency we as humans have a tendency to only note the outcomes we are looking for. It’s a form of survivorship bias where you only measure one respective result and ignore the others. The Murphy’s law effect, “why does this always happen to me” well because we really only focus on it and remember it when it happens. So we gloss over when it doesn’t and its very easy to create a narrative that it happens all the time.
Sure you can get tunnelled it happens but as a recent user poll showed it’s not happening as often as the narrative around it would like us to believe.
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I’d rather a classical original Dracula over the more modern iterations that Bram Stokers novel spawned.
You know a pinnacle piece of work when everything that comes after it mimics it. -
So no 3 gen, no antiloop, no teleporting, no insta-downs, no moris, no eliminating early, no defending hooks, we have a never ending stream of complaints just basically all on the same topic.
If the killer can kill you by any means then its somehow broken or boring.
Seems the end goal is to remove the dead from dead by daylight.
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To play devil’s advocate here I haven’t tunnelled anyone all evening and have been accused of tunnelling and/or camping on multiple occasions.
Are players really being tunnelled or are they just choosing to see it everywhere because it’s easier to blame it than to admit and assess their own poor play.
The one thing I will say toward a lot of the comments is yes survivors in general need a baseline BP bump.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719627#Comment_3719627
2500h of playing this game, I had only 1 match where survivors could finish the last Gen when a teammate die at 4 Gens. So
- I sweat out and the result is 3 Gens remaining with a teammate escape through hatch.
- Or I just tab out to draw and the result is 4 Gens remaining with a teammate escape through hatch.
Point out the part where I throw.
It’s the part where you tab out.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718648#Comment_3718648
Glad it's not just me, I thought the same about The Quarry. Started off strong but struggled to hold my interest in the end. I kind of felt like they were trying to capture the same sort of Until Dawn vibe but it was overall a bit meh for me. I am hopeful for Frank Stone though.
I’d agree about the quarry it did peter out a lil. Was still enjoyable overall though.
Hoping Frank Stone can maintain a better narrative throughout.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718536#Comment_3718536
I have responded to every single one of your comments where applicable.
I've written a list of ways survivors have been butchered (or for simplicity nerfed); causing players to quit in past games prior to today, which you clearly disagree with and you still have a problem, so tell me, what is it?
Something must have changed? My first point was gen times being increased (something that has been changed), I couldn't be anymore direct with my answer, especially having it written before you've even commented it.
"No one really demanded anything of you they just said with a laundry list like that you probably shouldn’t play and they have a point."- This sounds very personal and objective tbh."The thread is about quitting, the point is to keep it on topic. You have advocated for quitting by providing reasons to quit."- I have provided my witnessed reasons for players quitting midgame in the past, not reasons players should quit in the future, there is a clear difference, you also want to influence my opinion and try to sway it, which will never happen.I would also like to highlight the following, in almost each and every single one of your comments on this thread you have attacked someone personally, directly or indirectly, So I ask you, why don't you keep it on topic?
Your comment to @Rudjohns you commented the following:
"Tunneling is not the problem, players like you are."- stating he was the problem.Your very first comment to me you reiterated that I should quit indirectly: "
So if you don't really enjoy a large number of aspects of the game then it's not wholly unreasonable for someone to ask, hey why do you play?" - Knowing full well that I just clarified that what he wanted was a demand not an ask prior, which I have to repeat once again. On top of that, that interaction had nothing to do with you.Then you brought up some points about an agreement, when none were mentioned above your comment in this thread, thus, no correlation at all to my original post or any other.
I find this part particularly intriguing tbh. You specifically mention what your goal in this post is. - "
Nothing wrong with giving feedback and saying there are changes you don't like", I take it my original comment was what you don't like.Again, directly attacking @Rudjohns this time: "
You haven't really exposed anything other than your inability to deal with tunneling and a quitter mentality."Again to me: "
If your goal was to clarify “why people quit” thenyou framed it very poorly and have made even weaker attemptsto clarify.I understand why you struggle thoughbecause you don’t even understand your own point so how could you possibly understand someone else’s?"Another directed towards me with your first sentence: "
I’m afraid here you simply quibbling overpoorly thought semanticsto avoid making any valid point."Here's the cherry on the cake, you even went as far as trying to mock and belittle me: "
That is kinda funny. But such is the value of online interactions."All of your insults are under the guise of "feedback". This will be the last post I reply to you.
Re-read your laundry list of why players quit and how you framed it. If you didn’t believe survivors have been butchered you wouldn’t have worded it the way you did. If you don’t believe that then you worded it poorly. That’s a critique of your argument not you. Stop taking it personally. It’s not that I didn’t like your original comment it’s that it was severely flawed.
When pointed out that a laundry list like that brings into question why someone would play at all your response was “Don’t tell me what to do”. Which was either facetiousness, which is fine, or some form of narcissistic inability to take critique without responding to it in a defensively personal manner. Given how this exchange unfolded I’m thinking it’s the latter.
Yes the topic is tunnelling and quitting… the players who just quit because they get tunnelled are the problem. If players are going to quit in the face of specific gameplay they don’t like then they shouldn’t play. At least not until till able to do so without rage quitting when they don’t get what they want from the game.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
Not pleased with WotC currently, but this is just mindless hate.
yeah WotC stewardship of DnD has been less than stellar. I’m not under whelmed but I’m not over whelmed by the idea either.
Guess I’ll have to settle with being indifferently whelmed. -
@ArkInk said:
This thread is maybe the closest I've ever felt to 2017 DBD since that time. It's like Freddy just came out all over again. I'm frightened, and yet, it feels good to be home.
It’s definitely been the highlight of my afternoon meandering through the forums.
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Well that clears that up then.
Have fun quitting I guess. -
Why not just play?
I don’t think how recently the reset took place has that much of an impact on how some folks choose to play.
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Play Myers.
Classic horror icon.
Differing builds that mix up his play style.
Stealth, insta down and mori he has it all.Either that or Leatherface and just brute force your way through games with a simple yet highly effective killer whom is also a horror icon.
For a more thought out killer Trapper is the go to classic. A good set up can destroy even the best teams. Good luck getting out of the basement if a Trapper locks it down well.
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I’ve enjoyed Man of Medan and The Quarry so I’m looking forward to this.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718225#Comment_3718225
lol I just noticed the edit.
The term butchered means "to spoil something completely by performing or dealing with it very badly", ie it has been nerfed.
The term dislike means " to feel distaste for or hostility towards" or for simple terms, to hate it.
There is no correlation between the two, stop trying to find one.
PTB is on PC so only the PC audience is being taken into consideration when getting feedback (one sided feedback, you do the math)
This one here is also a fact LMAO
I’m afraid here you simply quibbling over poorly thought semantics to avoid making any valid point.
If presenting a list of reasons to quit on the predisposition that the game has been butchered then you must dislike the state of things. Otherwise you wouldn’t consider them butchered or reasons to quit.
Making a coherent point is very easy if you try. Why not give it a try.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718225#Comment_3718225
In the entire thread above where does it state the following words: "I disliked the survivor changes"?
Let me spoon-feed you the answer., it does not.
You mentally decided that upon reading it as it was never stated. OP was confused as to why survivors are suddenly starting to give up, I clarified my own personal summary of reasons that could be the case from what I had witnessed so far.
As for your prior comment, asking and demanding are two different things, as I clearly stated above but I guess I have to reiterate. Telling someone they need to do something is a demand, not an ask.
Also, not once did I state I had an issue with camping or tunnelling in this entire thread, again that was from you mentally.
I would also like you to elaborate on your last point, where exactly did I say I quit mid game in the thread above? 🤣
how have survivors been butchered then? Your words.
If they have been butchered then something must have changed.
No one really demanded anything of you they just said with a laundry list like that you probably shouldn’t play and they have a point.
The thread is about quitting, the point is to keep it on topic. You have advocated for quitting by providing reasons to quit.If your goal was to clarify “why people quit” then you framed it very poorly and have made even weaker attempts to clarify. I understand why you struggle though because you don’t even understand your own point so how could you possibly understand someone else’s?
That is kinda funny. But such is the value of online interactions.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718196#Comment_3718196
I mean if you want to look at it objectively, at what point in the entire post did I say I disliked the survivor changes? 🤔
Feel free to pick any from the collection you previously listed below.
(EDIT: I highlighted some for your convenience. But lets just say changes/ game state in general rather than survivor specific changes for further objectivity. *Also see the bolded heading… your point is framed specifically as survivors having the following butchered).
"You have frustrations with other survivors not enjoying the game? Let me easily explain why, killers will hate this post because they know most of it is true but I'll be straight to the point with it.
*Survivors have had the following butchered:
- Gens take longer to do
- Healing is currently ridiculously too slow so if a killer is fairly close it is virtually impossible to finish one heal if they have even 1 slowdown perk due to how fast killers currently move.
- Maps are ridiculously small or terribly redesigned
- Loops are 50/50 but with killer speed they start becoming useless fast
- survivor perks that would give you some sort of protection like dead hard is now butchered
- Boil over is useless and should be deleted from the game already
- Most PC killers still don't even feel the wiggle when carrying someone
- If you don't have at least one healing perk in moderate+ MMR games you can forget healing most of the time
- Survivors quit when 3 people are injured at the start before a gen is done because of the above healing issue, knowing it's useless to continue.
- Still nothing can be done about stopping a killer hard tunnelling without throwing the game unless your team is good
- Pallets are still 50/50 when they should 60/40 to survivor due to all the killer buffs and outdated pallet drop mechanics (Getting hit when you're in the pallet drop animation and the killer hasn't even finished the animation on their side)
- If a survivor does not bring a toolbox, unless the killer is bad you can forget finishing all the gens in time
- Ridiculously large hitboxes for killers still exist (huntress hatchets hitting you around corners for example)
- Nurse still exists in the game and impossible to beat unless she's awful at the game (killer has a headset which you can't reduce them hearing you at close range like iron will used to
- Unlimited map distance for range killers with miniscule objects in the way to stop them
- Still getting stuck on absolutely everything for no reason (Garbage map optimisation)
- PC players being able to play with filters (Clearly borderline cheating because it gives a lighting/tint advantage but if dev's don't want to address and accept that then so be it)
- Survivor perks are starting to become borderline useless and will continue to be when they continue to get massacred
- Killer movement speed is starting to get out of control when using survivor perks like lithe and they are still directly behind you within 3s (I honestly think this is a bug somewhere because killers should lose bloodlust but they don't, I also had a killer traverse 8 different rooms with me on his shoulders with 0 movement perks and without iron grasp (so clearly something is wrong)
- PTB is on PC so only the PC audience is being taken into consideration when getting feedback (one sided feedback, you do the math)
- Foliage such as bushes have also been nerfed on some maps so it's just chases unless again, the killer is bad as they were in 1 of my games today
- Turning animation for survivors needs to be adjusted and sped up slightly.
- Targeted before the game has even started for being TTV or a high prestige when you're just trying to chill
- Being forced to save teammates but they don't do the same back
- Being left on the hook"
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718067#Comment_3718067
No, I'm just exposing how tunneling is a broken way to play the game that, if the player is at least decent at the game, theres nothing the other players can do, and I will proudly contribute to that until they do something to fix it
Thats my way to protest against tunneling
Also, adding to that:
So let me get this straight… you tunnel as killer because its the best thing to do even when you bemoan it as a tactic and then quit immediately if tunneled as survivor.
This is your form of "protest."
The concept of protest is to highlight and strive for active change which you are doing neither of here. So you are just quitting you aren't protesting. You haven't really exposed anything other than your inability to deal with tunneling and a quitter mentality.
Let's implement your "make tunneling impossible solution." What's to stop me just body blocking the killer with my permanent immunity for the rest of the game?
Your suggestion is more broken than even the most egregious of tunneling could be. Unfortunately making survivors immune to elimination really undermines the concept of the game and isn't a great solution to any scenario.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717608#Comment_3717608
Once final time, else I'll take your replies as satire.
who are you to ask me to quit a game?
Well lets look at the point objectively.
You have a really long laundry list of changes things you dislike about survivor changes and play and what appears to be a bit of a chip on your shoulder about the opinions of "killer players."
So if you don't really enjoy a large number of aspects of the game then it's not wholly unreasonable for someone to ask, hey why do you play?
The whole "players have a right to choose" element of your point is kinda exercised at the wrong moment. You choose to sign up to play DBD when you hit the queue button. That's basically your agreement with a group of other players and BHVR to play out the game. If any aspect of legitimate gameplay makes you want to quit early then that decision should be made prior to queuing up to play.
Camping and tunneling are part of the game and should be expected as potential play you'll face. If you quit when facing expected and accepted play then you need to quit prior to queueing up, not during game.
Nothing wrong with giving feedback and saying there are changes you don't like, but even changes you don't like aren't rationale for quitting mid game. Again make that decision before you sign up to play.