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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201919#Comment_3201919
No, because people ragequit and the current system doesn't seem to dissuade them at all, we should remove the system since it seems to only actually punish people who don't want to DC.
The DC penalty system is the one stopgate keeping DCing from turning from a moderate problem to an all-out disaster.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201468#Comment_3201468
The survivor still has options. They can potentially wiggle free, they could potentially have DS or, if it's their first hook, deliverance. New Mori takes away those options.
That's just slightly better than yellow Mori, though, in that it only applies to the last Survivor.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201432#Comment_3201432
BHVR seems to think so. The straw is that the combination of players doesn't matter so long as there is only one who is still up. One can be dead, another on hook and another slugged, and then you've just gotta get that last survivor downed and the trial is over.
While I think that basekit UB isn't a good change, I also think that the new mori isn't a good change either but I don't see BHVR going back to the drawing board on that one so I've accepted that basekit UB is a byproduct of the new mori system.
Personally, I would've just been satisfied with being able to bleed out faster when there's only one other player left as the solution to being slugged for the 4k.
"The straw is that the combination of players doesn't matter so long as there is only one who is still up. One can be dead, another on hook and another slugged, and then you've just gotta get that last survivor downed and the trial is over."
How is that different to now in practice?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201379#Comment_3201379
I'm assuming it'll be the latter. There's not much that can really be done with UB as a perk outside of reworking it entirely, but basekit UB is absolutely necessary to prevent slugging en-masse.
Slugging all four players previously was more or less a win for the Killer unless someone had UB. Was it that much of an issue before that something needed to be changed now? What straw does the new mori add that breaks the camel's back in this regard?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201314#Comment_3201314
It takes survivors 30.4 seconds to reach 95% recovery. I'm not sure how the new system is going to work. There was no mention of the base recovery speed being slowed to account for this in the developer update.
The new system makes it so Survivors can stand back up after 45 seconds without any need for perks. Either the recovery speed will be slowed to account for this, or you will simply be stuck at 95% until 45 seconds have passed. The end result in practice is pretty similar.
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@Tsela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200806#Comment_3200806
in each circumstance where you can reach the next survivor in a short time.
Assuming both cases, if you hook, you have three Survivors busy (one being chased, one on the hook, one going for the rescue). If you slug, you have two Survivors busy (one being chased, one being slugged until they get back up by themself). How is the slug leading to more time bought?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201157#Comment_3201157
Let's see, Off the Record because tunneling is still very much a thing. Dead Hard for a second chance in chase. Reassurance because camping is still very much a thing. That leaves one perk slot. Do they choose a perk for healing, or do they choose UB?
There has to be some give and take. If killers get A, and survivors don't get B, that's going to lead to killers slugging en-masse and justifying it as playing efficiently, the team being bad, or the survivors not running perk XYZ. Either everyone gets nothing, and I very much doubt BHVR will throw away their finisher mori system, or both sides get something.
Should the basekit UB be 45 seconds? Arguably, it's a little low and should be 60 seconds. Should UB be changed? Yes. Instead of increasing recovery speed, it should let you pick yourself back up as soon as you're fully recovered, which is around 30ish seconds.
They choose UB and bring a medkit. :)
I don't disagree that there should be some give. I simply worry that this is too much give, especially for SWF.
"Instead of increasing recovery speed, it should let you pick yourself back up as soon as you're fully recovered, which is around 30ish seconds."
What? That's what basekit UB does now, except it's 45 seconds. What you're proposing is that UB still increase recovery speed, but less so than what will be in the PTB.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201138#Comment_3201138
Dang do we play the same game? I never have to do this even if i play against a bully squad. Id rather lose and say gg and go next then make the match infuriating or unfun. On topic just go after the unhooker or patrol gens? With some game sense you'll find someone.
What you'd rather do is not necessarily the same as what others would rather do. :P
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200778#Comment_3200778
The finisher mori ends the trial as soon as the last man standing is downed. That means no DS, no 4% when all hope at being rescued is lost, no chance at wiggling free.
It doesn't happen often enough for it to be a problem, but there have been killers who've gone on a slugging spree with knockout and just bled all 4 survivors out. To end the trial at 5 gens in the current version without hook states would require doing exactly that.
It's 45 seconds without perks. If it takes you more than 45 seconds to decide to hook someone, they've more than earned the right to pick themselves back up.
Again, though, this isn't a nerf to killers. I'd argue that 45 seconds is a little low, but as this feature is not going to be in the upcoming update and is merely a preview, there should be plenty of time to appropriately voice concerns and provide feedback that isn't just "Us vs Them".
While what killers got is easily inferior to what survivors are getting, that doesn't make it a nerf to killers. That just makes it unbalanced.
"The finisher mori ends the trial as soon as the last man standing is downed. That means no DS, no 4% when all hope at being rescued is lost, no chance at wiggling free."
You're basically describing the benefits to the yellow Mori, the aforementioned meme offering. The only upgrade with this basekit change compared to the previous yellow Mori is that it will also trigger if all remaining players are slugged and/or hooked. In practice, this will usually only come up when there are only two people left.
Also, it's 45 seconds without the new Unbreakable. 22.5 seconds with the new Unbreakable.
I would argue basekit Unbreakable is a net nerf to Killer, at least indirectly, since all Survivors get it at base kit, which means all Survivors get their choice of four perks plus Unbreakable.
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@Tsela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200765#Comment_3200765
probably really depends on the playstyle. for example I slug which I consider buying time in case I'm well aware where some or most of the rest of the survivors are, which helps me chase and down sooner. If I don't know where the others are or they are quite far away, I just hook the downed survivor.
Well I have been playing quite a bit Onryo lately and after downing (provided that I knew where some of the others are) I teleported to them and attacked the next one. Which is still faster than wasting time with hooks before I down somebody else who I know where he is. After hooking I will see what happens with the first slugged one (or if 45 seconds wore out and got up).
In what circumstances would slugging now lead to more time bought than hooking?
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm having a hard time seeing where this becomes hugely problematic. 45 seconds is a long time to be in a 3v1. If you're being forced to slug, 99% of the time it's because you have an immediate chase option and those are situations where you wouldn't be picking up/hooking anyway. They're typically easy wins when teams try to gang up around the killer.
Allegedly Unbreakable cuts that time down by half.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200720#Comment_3200720
It is, but it is also in no way just more nerfs to killers which is more what I was getting at with my response. On the one hand, it's 45 seconds without perks. On the other, without it there would be nothing to stop killers from ending the trial at 5 gens if they wanted to.
Base kit buffed Unbreakable I would argue is a net nerf. Yellow mori base kit is not on equal level to base kit Unbreakable.
Also, how does a Killer end the trial at 5 gens compared to now?
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@Tsela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200663#Comment_3200663
well get ready for even longer 4k slugging session while the killer is chasing the last 2 survivors around and not hooking either of them
well that's already buying time. a survivor is disabled for 45 seconds, while the killer is currently playing against fewer survivors. If they work on gens, that's good. That's their job, and killer's job to find the rest also. I would for example slug one and hook the second downed. Time is a resource.
Isn't that less time bought than just hooking the Survivor, though? At least then, a second Survivor has to go in for the rescue (assuming no kobe). With slugging, no one has to get off the gen.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200220#Comment_3200220
Did you miss the part where killers get basekit mori, regardless of hook states?
What's to stop a killer from slugging Survivor A, B and C, and then downing Survivor D which triggers the finisher Mori and ends the trial?
It's easy to see how, without anti-slugging measures in place, you could end up in a very unfun situation.
I would argue that this is only marginally better than yellow Mori, which was a meme offering. Pretty close to a QoL boost at best, if you ask me.
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I guess my question is "what is the solution to a Survivor being downed at the pallet with a teammate nearby?" What about downed with a nearby flashlight user? Chasing someone else no longer temporarily renders another Survivor busy saving the downed Survivor.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198585#Comment_3198585
I agree with this but I also feel them defining a win condition for MMR has made the community change too.
I think part of the problem is that they defined it (at least, by MMR standards) but have done nothing to make the game flow around that standard so it's enjoyable.
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3+ kills as a Killer
3+ escapes as a Survivor
Can't get any more straightforward than that.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I'm almost certain all facial animations are bugged because babes what is this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QGZKXG60D3O9/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/93G06BYZX1CT/image.png
(yes these were stolen from my twitter feed)
That second face looks like it's gonna bounce across the monitor like a winning Solitaire deck.
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I am still convinced that BHVR's claim is a cover-up.
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@versacefeng said:
Growing up is realizing that this selection of outfits.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1XT7U4PLCB7U/image.png
Is better than this.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YL6YIZDWBMVR/image.png
Realistic outfits in this game are criminally undervalued, there's no way you all like dressing up as pastel Disney princesses in DBD.
EDIT: How much do you wanna bet that all the survivor outfits in the winning selection would become sets too?
That ain't growing up. That's deluding one's self. ;)
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
Sure, there are some exclusive cosmetics. This wording doesn't imply that every cosmetic offered would be exclusive.
It absolutely does create the implication by omission, even if they did so unintentionally. The fact that they are planning to change this wording should be evidence enough of that.
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I'm a Vorthos.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the "magic the gathering player" you are referring to is Mark Rosewater, Head Designer of Magic, no?
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New meaning to the phrase "Shirtless Clown."
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Did not catch initially that it has no range requirement. This perk is insane.
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Survivor should be disadvantaged at that point in the game, but at the same time, there still needs to be something to push the remaining Survivors to do anything other than hide beyond "we'll report you if you stall the game for too long!"
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174803#Comment_3174803
Its the speed of the skill check combined with another perk that makes it tiny. You're 1-shot until healed, you miss the skill check and now the killer knows where someone is who is 1-shot so its free tracking too. Don't heal and a killer without a terror radius or a speedy killer can capitalize on it with no real effort. That's the issue. If they changed the speed of the needle, no one would complain. Just change it to like 30% speed but 50% speed is just about impossible to hit with a tiny skill check because of a perk.
How tiny we talking?
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Is Wesker the only reason Coulrophobia is being talked about? Because you just slap a hard range cap on Coulro, and it goes right back into the gutters.
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@Satelit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174508#Comment_3174508
As far as I'm aware trapping someone in the corner all game is not bannable unless no one can do generators anymore and activate the endgame.Idk maybe I'm wrong.
You are indeed wrong. Bodyblocking in the corner for an extended period of time and for large percentages of the match is bannable, regardless of circumstances.
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@JacobiusWick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3172724#Comment_3172724
So you're equating more distance with higher value, but if that were the case, Overcome would still be and have been the most rewarding perk, no? I would say that's not sound because you are arguing distance alone (of new DH) is worth more than the countless broken ways old DH could be used for both distance AND protection virtually automatically. Further, I would say that versatility trumps distance categorically in this regard as the ideal strat for using DH in the first place is to massively extend chase time and provide a buffer against the killer (third health state). Having a perk that barely functions, and is only really valuable at pallets, is not more rewarding than a perk that can do all the aforementioned things and more (with all the techs in mind). Yes, new DH gives you more distance, but old DH gives you more options with a much safer approach. Both of those factor in when considering how "rewarding" this perk could be. If you had played against skilled survivors running it before the nerf.....we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Overcome does not effectively give you a third health state, so the reward for Overcome is nowhere near as high. The comparison does not hold water IMO.
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@JacobiusWick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3171377#Comment_3171377
I think we are actually in agreement here, but are getting lost in language. My point is that new dead hard is much more risky (harder to time and very finnicky) but not as rewarding as old DH to use. I say this because old DH gave you free distance regardless of a hit or miss from the killer, on top of the endurance. You are "rewarded" with two abilities in one. New DH, rewards you distance only in the case of a hit, and that distance is null if you aren't already at a pallet. You're incredibly likely to go down regardless if not. {S.I.C--Decisive Strike- Post 6.1.0} The distance gained from a hit with new DH, is nothing compared to the free extra tile, loop, or etc.. that old DH basically guaranteed. Therefore, lower reward, higher risk.
We are not in agreement. I think new DH is more rewarding than old DH because new DH can give you more distance than old DH if you successfully tank a hit. Old DH is more versatile, but the peak payoff of new DH is higher.
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@JacobiusWick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168590#Comment_3168590
Yes and no. Like I said, it's entirely skill reliant. You can definitely get value out of it in certain scenarios like being dead zoned or right at a pallet. But for the most part, the lack of dash now took away it's God looping power when using it for distance to reach pallets and vaults. On top of that, if the killer misses or you screw the timing (which is incredibly shaky currently) you are literally dead as you've gained nothing. Hence, the aforementioned risk/reward ratio.
I am very much aware at the loss of DH for distance. My point is that while DH for distance is now completely gone, DH to "dodge" a hit is stronger now than it was before (which is fair IMO because that requires precise timing to reap the reward). The risk is higher because of the chance to miss, but the reward now for succeeding on the risk is higher than before.
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@JacobiusWick said:
It's so hit and miss now though.
Old DH was a high risk, high reward. If you knew how to play it well, it was extremely op.
New DH is very high risk, but low/mid reward. At best, it's going to add maybe a couple of seconds or an extra loop to your chases. Even the really good survivors I've played against usually go down shortly after they pop it.
I don't think it should go back to old DH, but it's super buggy on console atm.
Sprint Burst on the other hand, is a nightmare. If they know how to bait and loop. It's over.
Even with the Killer buffs they recently got, don't you still get more distance from a successful DH now than before (on account of the speed boost from tanking a hit plus the hit cooldown for Killer)? I think it is overall weaker than old DH (as it should be), but the reward for a successful DH should be higher than old DH (which makes sense since it is no longer free distance), no?
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@nigylotwitch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165118#Comment_3165118
I wouldn't go afk if I felt like I had a chance if winning that's the point of a game to feel fairly challenged but if I don't ofc I'm going to give up and watch some YT so I can actually play a fun match
Well, enjoy getting reported for going AFK, then.
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@nigylotwitch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165092#Comment_3165092
Bruh I have better things to do I my day then get builled by a 4 man swf with clicky flashlight/med kits if I cant dc then I'll refuse to play and sit in the corner
Then don't play the game. Simple. AFKers can be reported, btw.
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Not a bad idea, but let's punish the DCer anyways so that the goal of this plan is to DISCOURAGE ragequits, not enable them.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162748#Comment_3162748
It quite easily missed that's a small bug that could go un noticed since there were bigger bugs going on in that chapter release anyway. If testers ie us didn't know that's not how the perk works then we won't report it.
It's not like obvious bugs like Onyro, Clown, Meyers etc.
I disagree; I think this is a VERY obvious thing to miss as far as perk interactions. Sure, we didn't report it as a bug because we didn't know (the perk description absolutely does not help), but we sure as heck knew it was a thing.
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@lauraa said:
Yall literally asked for this. We knew a new RPD would be crap, but people demanded a change anyway. Enjoy your change, people.
Brb gonna cry somewhere
We asked for the map to be made at least decent. :P
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@VikingDragonXii said:
They didn't Nerf Blast Mine because of the synergy, Blast Mine was bugged it was never supposed to carry over your charge when the duration expired.
There was a tweet from a programer with DBD talking about it.
I don't believe the dev when they day that they didn't know it was "bugged" the whole time. That is an obvious enough situation such that I cannot accept the claim that it was never noticrd.
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@Gary_Coleman said:
Karen didn't like RPD so they cut it in half, like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, so that everything would be more fair.
Or was it Karens son/daughter/other who didn't like RPD?
Karen, Karen's family, Karen's neighbors, Karen's neighbor's families, etc.
Basically, enough people that it might not just be a matter of unjustified whining. :P
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3158554#Comment_3158554
What's not to understand? Look through the Recent Discussions. You'll see much higher view/reply counts for threads in General than in Feedback.
Feedback and Suggestions are where threads go to die.
Solution: Start reading the Feedback section more often. There's nothing stopping people.
Anyways, this change seems extremely unnecessary, and I can't imagine balance being the reason behind such a nerf.
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@Shadowwander said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161207#Comment_3161207
Killers don't need to camp hooks during endgame; endgame is literally designed in their favor and for their benefit. All they have to do is patrol two doors, often times both spawning right next to each other. It's not that hard.
That's only true if there's one person left. At three or four people, Survivors are favored. Killer is usually better off trying to secure a final kill at that point.
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My understanding is this:
"Tunneling" is derived from "tunnel vision," which refers to a loss of peripheral vision. When one is described as having a "tunnel vision mentality," it means they are focused entirely on a singular goal without any consideration of outside circumstances surrounding you.
If you as a Killer are dead-set on knocking one person out of the game as soon as possible while generally ignoring everything and everyone else, you are in a tunnel vision menality and are thus tunneling. If the Killer is keeping gen pressure going, keeping Survivors off gens and also making sure that they secure a kill as quickly as possible to screw up Survivor momentum, that's not tunneling so much as playing efficiently.
A Survivor would be said to be in a tunnel vision mentality if and specifically if they are hammering out gens without any consideration for who is on a hook, who is in danger of dying, where the Killer is (unless they are directly on top of that Survivor), etc. If they are hammering out gens but still keeping the Killer busy when needed or still unhooking when the opportunity arises or still knocking out Hexes as seen/needed, that's also not tunneling so much as just playing efficiently.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3133470#Comment_3133470
That doesn’t work in reality (especially solo queue) and as more generators are fully repaired throughout the match.
Not only does that indeed work in reality, but it is considered the optimal strategy against many Killers in general because it makes it harder for the Killer to pressure the gens.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3133450#Comment_3133450
These all have limitations of some kind, though. Kindred: only while the survivor with it equipped is hooked. Doesn’t help against undetectable killers. Whispers: simply tells you a survivor/survivors is/are nearby or not, and not anything more than that. Call of Brine: as you said, requires a killer to damage the gen. Blast Mine and Wiretap are limited to one generator at a time, with activation and deactivation conditions.
Discordance just is what it is all match, up until five generators are fully repaired anyways.
The limitation is that it only works if multiple people are on the same gen. The counterplay is to split up.
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A dev has literally said this is a buff.
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The way I see it, if you can properly make not-camping the ideal, rewarding, strategically advantageous strategy, you can then nerf camping into the ground.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125649#Comment_3125649
This build was popularized by, i think a streamer? Benjo Kazooie or something, build is meh but a good blood warden play can usually carry a 0-1k to 3-4k which is what made it pretty funny imo.
Lol, fair enough. I would use that build minus Bloodwarden to meme around.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125635#Comment_3125635
Wait is that the Agi/Mad Grit/Iron Grasp/Blood Warden one? Nothing but respect for that one lol
Why Bloodwarden, out of curiosity?
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@Dead_Harder said:
Starstruck is overrated on nurse, wasting a perk slot to see people within 20 metres even more so.
Starstruck + Awakaned Awareness will be oppressively strong against potatoes and below average swfs.
It will do nothing against people that dont actually suck at the game and spread out because spreading out is an incredibly efficient way to play the game in the first place and understand that grouping up means giving free pressure to the killer.
Imagine actually using 3 perk slots Starstruck + Awakaned Awareness + Agitation just to do well against below average survivors and get crushed by good ones... Insane.
How dare you implicitly dunk on the meme taxi build. D:
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124819#Comment_3124819
The nuance that I'm talking about is not present in DBD.
At its core, high level DBD is just a bunch of human computers executing a series of 'if-then' command sequences.
Have you ever seen the movie War Games?
Balancing DBD (in its current state) around the highest levels of play would turn it into tic-tac-toe. Every game would end in a draw at the highest levels, because there is simply not enough mechanical skill involved for players to actually influence the outcome of their game.
Not saying that I think DBD is the pinnacle of mechanical execution, but I'm not sure I agree with your stance.