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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679509#Comment_3679509
oh, imagine cheating as blight lol
Sad.
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@Gabe_Soma said:
I fear that +200% will only be reached a few days before the event closes.
Hm lets wait and see. We have already surpassed the first Million, within like what? 4 hours? If the speed stays on average the same, we might actually reach it from now on in less then 6 days.
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679463#Comment_3679463
iri tag increase your speed by 20% now
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679463#Comment_3679463
His power literally makes him move twice as fast and the iri increases that even further during attacks combined with the event thing his lunge could be super super long and make it seem like hes going super fast.
I know, its not about addons. The Blight was litteraly twice as fast as he could possible be. Like 3 seconds across the map with his 2nd rush. It was a cheater.
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@Raccoon said:
I usually don't go into games to 'test' people then tell them they 'failed' post game, but then again, I also don't 1v1 the killer in a mutual agreement for 15 minutes while there are other survivors in game.
Given your myriad of complaints about various behaviors in the game, perhaps you could strive to be the positive changes you'd like to see reflected in the behavior of others.
Strange how different people define good behavior.
As if someone was insulted or had a bad experience.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408472/did-i-just-run-into-a-cheater
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679421#Comment_3679421
You could jump to that conclusion, but we don't know what perks or addons were used, or if you are talking about their lunge, because the event can increase killer lunge (which is increased movement speed.)
There are no perks or addons that make blight goes twice as fast. And i have played against Blight a million times, i would be able to tell pretty quick if the Blight runs Rat and/or Crow addons. Unless they just buffed those addons to 50% extra momvement speed per rush.
Thanks tho, thread can be closed. I was only unsure if the event might have caused that.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679310#Comment_3679310
6k points looks like this person was tunneled.
Not anything to do with SM
I could not have played more friendly. She went down within 20 seconds all the time, fully healed of course. To put it simple, she was not a good teammate.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
We'd need to see footage to say for sure. May very well have been a cheater.
So what you are saying is that there is no way the event can increase Movement speed? Then it was a cheater. Thank you.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679258#Comment_3679258
rnt u about to play SM right now?
and chucky i HATE that little gremlin even as a killer main
I am, and it is a terrible designed killer. Me playing her is more for sience reason if it is actually true that so many people DC against her.
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@GeneralV said:
You can take advantage of the event. Huge BP bonus seems to make people less likely to DC, or at least they used to.
I stoped because of it.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
ive done that with nurse but no dcs any of those times i tried it so good luck my friend
and dont forget giving up on hook counts too
I am writing them down aswel, thanks for reminder.
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Game 2 went much better. Only 1 DC and she DC'd the moment i put her on deathhook.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
It doesn't metter how you play to people who give on sight just knowing which killer it is before even giving them fair shot.
Also some people rage quits againts Trappers and Freddys...so yea.
They do. Already over
Lets go for round number 2.
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Skull Merchant.
Because.
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@Shuma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677028#Comment_3677028
Those are the kill rates, you have to do calculations with those stats to get win-rates. Draws aren’t counted in win-rates, so you have to remove those to get the win/loss rates.
We are talking about win/loss ratio here? then that is true, but since so many refere to "winrate", i did not put that into further account. Either way how we see it - winrate or killrate, it is all clearly in the killers favour.
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@Slowpeach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678973#Comment_3678973
To be fair the survivor streak was done with comp restrictions which massively weakens survivor capabilities. To my knowledge this means only one of each item, the whole team can only use the same perk once, certain perk combinations addons and map offerings are banned. Someone can get the exact details if they like but the point is they were rules and restrictions placed upon them.
The Nurse and Blight streaks had no such rules upon them. Still though, it does prove that those killers are basically cheating within the rules. Such streaks just should not be possible. The game is designed in such a way that your luck should run out and things should eventually work against you.
It absolutely boggles my mind how these two have been so dominant since I started playing and have gotten only baby nerfs and some could argue those weren't even nerfs at all. Also just because two killers that can cheat within the rules can create these streaks does not mean the game is killer sided. It's been said before but the game is sided usually to whichever side is willing to optimize the broken state of this game more. Map offerings alone are hard evidence of that.
But to be also fair, the survivor streak was 3 out and not 4, which is a massiv difference. If they try 4 outing and running no restriction, they most likely would not even reach anything close to 170. Above 50 would already be alomost impossible to do.
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3 escapes? Rather 4 outs since killer winstreaks like the Nurse one was also 4 kill and not 3.
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Turrets and coordination. Alien has one of the best chase powers in the game so you rely on macro more then your looping skills. Crucial positions where rotations are most likely during a chase should have 2 turrets side by side, Pre droping is arguably the best way to deal with the tail, so play it safe.
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It is favouring survivor but not as bad as Badham or GoJ. The strongest parts are not the pallets itself but rather the tiles in between that let you connect with the loop. For example the small graveyard in the middle. Main building, while not loopable is also pretty strong for survivors since it is not worth chasing survivors who are upstairs. The window is pretty good with Lithe to make it back to shack or simple to the 2 Gyms.
@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
It's basically The Game in the sense that literally every pallet and tile on that map is a god pallet. It needs the Borgo treatment.
It is not even compareable with the game the slightest, the power survivors have on this map has nothing to do with "god pallets"
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679050#Comment_3679050
With 4 hooks we can assume, that all survivors play decently well (in comparison to the killer). At that point, when nobody is dead, the killer can only chase 1 person and possibly kill them seconds before the last gen is finished. That's already optimistic. When the exit gates are powered and the killer proxy camps another survivor (assuming they even get someone else before they escape), then the last 2 escape with no trouble.
There is simply no way for the killer to turn this around by tunneling / proxy camping. Not anymore. Back when 60 minutes games were still a thing, you could have argued that it was at least possible but now not so much. You don't get to activate Pain Res when tunneling and Pop will not prevent the last gen from getting done either.
The killer has a disadvantage but it is very far from impossible. I would even argue 0 hooks is still winable. Many resources are most likely gone, sluging may come into play, perks like PR, Pop and Grim are still live. If we have a decent 3 gen, i would not eve be worried to much.
Good example:
https://youtu.be/6YoJQyoh5ac?t=7212 hook stages and yet the survivors are in a difficult postion.
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@Xernoton said:
How does that work? When 4 gens are done and the killer only has 4 hooks, then there is no way they can get a 4k. A 2k is the best possible outcome that they can still get at this point.
Why would that be? Maybe i am missing something here but there is still plenty of ways to get the 4K. Many games fell apart for survivors because they could not finish the last generator.
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@zarr said:
The mental olympics of pretending stats don't mean anything have begun again.
The game is (and has most of always been) statistically killer-sided in its main gamemode. That is simply a fact, that is what these stats mean. Even an average player is expected to kill more survivors than escape against them over the course of their matches, even at "high MMR", and regardless of the killer character they choose to play. Even regardless of the map the match is being played on, at least according to past stats (the least deadly killer on the least deadly map still boasting a killrate above 50%). If you're better than average, you are likely killing the majority of survivors you get. And if you're good, you're likely barely ever having anyone escape. This is also a demonstrable fact as winrates of 90+% and winstreaks (at times of hundreds and thousands of matches) are completely commonplace among good killer players, evidenced by streams and videos.
The fact that even high MMR 4-player SWFs (which constitute a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase, and the strongest configuration survivors can present) on average aren't getting 2 survivors out of the gates is staggering. Consider on top of this that matches with disconnects (which typically happen when survivors get demolished, or regularly mean that they will get demolished thereafter) are excluded entirely, deflating the killrate, and that hatch escapes (which typically happen when survivors got demolished) are included, inflating the survival rate. And yet still, even high MMR SWF groups consisting of 4 players are not averaging 2 escapes. That suggests a grim reality for the average survivor experience.
To address a few things that can regularly be seen in response to stats:
Nurse not having the highest killrate across all MMR ranges does not mean the stats are nonsense. It is nonsense to expect that. Why would we expect the average player to play killers to their full potential? It is obvious to understand that the most deadly killers on a global average will precisely be those that do not have to be played at a high level to be strong. The ratio of the ease of playing a killer as compared to their lethality (particularly in the sense of the difficulty of playing against them) is the majorly determining factor for average killrates. It makes perfect sense that killers like Merchant and Plague are high up in the stats because their abilities are very easy to use and very problematic for survivors. Nurse particularly is the only killer in the game that can never fall back on normal chase mechanics, it could not be more self-evident why she tends to have some of the lowest average killrates. There's just countless new, average and intermediate players not doing well with her because she requires a wholly unique skillset. What has to additionally be considered is that console stats are of course included here, and Nurse is among various killers that are significantly limited by the input potential controllers provide. Even just looking at PC-only stats would in all likeliness already bump her rates up quite a bit even on a global average scale. And last time we got stats on killers in high MMR, Nurse obviously was among the top 4 most deadly killers. The further up in MMR you look, the more the killrates would line up with common sense on who the strongest killers are. There are Nurse and Blight 4k streaks spanning thousands of matches, those players will have the highest MMR, meaning Nurse and Blight at that point would show up as the top 2 killers with 99.X% killrates.
"A 60% killrate isn't a 60% winrate" is not the argument some may think it is. The higher the killrate, the higher the winrate, that follows imperatively. What also follows logically is that the higher the killrate, the lower the survival rate - and the lower in turn the winrate for survivors. So if you want to make an argument about the winrate, you have to keep in mind that the 60% killrate means killers also have a higher winrate than survivors. So it's ultimately a moot point. Just because the killer winrate may not be above 50% (we do not know this, and there is no way to infer this from the stats without seeing actual kill distributions) does not mean they are underperforming, because the survivor winrate certainly would also not be above 50% (again because the killrate statistically dictates that the killer winrate is higher than the survivor winrate). It would just mean draws are fairly common, with killer wins being more common than survivor wins.
The people that argue "well, a 60% killrate is what BHVR aims for so things are in a pretty good spot" I can appreciate for at least not letting their bias run wild and claim the stats to be meaningless, instead saying the game is supposed to be killer-sided on average so it being so is not an issue. But for one thing you have to actually embrace what that means and in the future try and refrain from assuming the position that the game is survivor-sided and BHVR caters to survivors, since it is factually killer-sided (in its main game mode, meaning public matchmaking) and BHVR intentionally caters to killers on live balance. And for another, you will surely understand that "BHVR aims for it" is not a be-all-end-all argument. There can be arguments that their target is misguided. Personally I think 60% average killrates would be a fine target if disconnects were to be included and hatch escapes excluded. These things significantly affect the survivor playing experience in any match in which they happen, so to design the game in a way where stats completely ignore these realities to me renders the game too one-sided. Think of all the matches in which survivors get demolished with multiple gens left standing and the last survivor happens to get the hatch - all of those have a 25% survival rate, meaning even matches which survivors lose horribly can still contribute significantly to their overall survival rate. And one more reason to exclude these escapes is the fact that the killer can go out of their way to make hatch escapes nearly impossible, if they simply so desire. Many players don't, but since they can refrain from killing one of the two last remaining survivors virtually indefinitely and circumvent the hatch mechanic fairly reliably, the hatch balance-wise should not inform decisions being made to benefit killers based on their killrate that is deflated by the hatch. To note: I won't argue they should aim for a perfect 60% killrate with disconnects included and hatch escapes excluded (if anything they should improve the 2v1 game scenario that is often a stalemate tilted in the killer's favour, such as by enabling the survivors to kill themselves in the dying state), but at the very least they should look at those stats too and make sure the deviation from the 60% ideal is not more than 2-3%. Hell, maybe count hatch escapes as half an escape. If the killrate without disconnects and with hatch escapes then turns out to coalesce around 50-55% for most killers, so be it. I also think 4-player SWFs should have a 50% average survival rate, although disconnects can be excluded and hatch escapes included in this instance (because full premade groups are only screwing over each other by disconnecting rather than strangers, and because full premade groups can actually coordinate hatch escapes fairly reliably). The game at its core is balanced for the idea of 4 random survivors that have no means of coordinating their builds, plays and strategies, nor to have external communications. If the balance target for that is a 60% killrate, that is fine. But once you have full premade groups of survivors, the game changes completely, and to try and maintain a 60% killrate in that environment would lead the base game balance far astray.
"Solo queue is fine and the gap to SWF has been bridged" is not quite accurate, in multiple respects. First things first, even a difference of 3% is quite significant when looking at sample sizes of millions upon millions of matches. Just think of the fact that 3% can literally be the difference between a killer being top 5 or top 20 in terms of killrate. And in the high MMR bracket, the difference between solo and 4-SWF is 9%. Secondly, like I noted in the previous point, disconnects and hatch escapes affect these rates, and they should be treated differently for solos and SWFs, widening the gap. Then the experience is also different: If in solo queue you die, you will not all too regularly care or even know whether your fellow survivors escaped; in SWF, people are more so actually playing for the team result. A 40% survival rate in solo feels much worse than one in SWF because in solo that means on average you die more than half the time and consider the match a loss, whereas in SWF even if you do die you can still be happy that 1-2 (1.6) of your friends made it out alive. And finally, the gameplay gap between SWF and solo cannot be bridged and it would therefore be asinine to try and bridge it statistically. The differing experiences and potentials simply yield a completely different game (which is a good thing, solo being much closer to the survival horror theme, SWF making it more of a competitive strategic multiplayer) - if a 40% survival rate is the target for solo, it should always be expected that 4-player SWFs will be notably above that, and that is fine. That said, I do want there to be loadout restrictions implemented for SWF, such that any offering, perk, item or add-on can only be present at most 1 time between the party members. At the very least for 4-player SWFs. I don't actually suspect this will decrease their survival rate all too significantly. But it would limit their ridiculous potential ceiling, and at the same time free up design space to make perks (and items/add-ons/offerings) more powerful since they then don't have to be designed with the possibility in mind of coordinated premades abusing multiple instances of them. And more powerful perks existing of course help solos, especially since they can still happen to have multiple instances of them.
"The game is survivor-sided at the highest levels of play so this doesn't matter" - Quite a few issues with statements of this sort. Above all, it's ludicrous to say millions of players' playing experience should not matter for the balance design. Even if the game were to be survivor-sided at a base balance level if you have the best players competing, BHVR designs the game for the live balance environment that actually matters when it comes to the actual playing experience actual players in your game are actually having, which is what these stats capture. It is absurd to even entertain this idea because the "highest levels of play" simply do not exist in this game's matchmaking. Actual top teams of survivors basically never play pubs, and in the exceedingly rare cases where they do, they basically never actually play like they would in a tournament (much the opposite). You can go for 8 years and 10000 hours of playing this game without ever encountering even just 1 top tournament team in your pub matches. Ask any player that has played since 2016 how often they have faced an actual top tournament team in pubs. It never happens. And even if it were to happen 1 time in 8 years or whatever, it still in all likeliness wouldn't be a match where they bring 4 BNPs, do gens and get out - it would more likely be a match where they bring 4 flashbangs and 4 Head Ons and all die after having fun in main for 15 minutes. Moreover, that is only half of the equation of course: for it to constitute an actual "highest levels of play" match where the balance for this would be relevant, not only would you need to have such a top tournament team with top loadouts, but they would also have to meet a top tournament killer with a top loadout. I would not be surprised if this has not happened even just once in the history of this game. The next issue is that not only does balancing for the highest level not matter even in tournaments (balance is established by the fact that both teams play both sides, plus tournaments can implement custom rulesets), but tournaments go to show that the game is not even all that survivor-sided at the highest levels. In tournaments and showmatches without loadout restrictions, Nurse, Blight and Spirit have outperformed survivors. And in tournaments with restrictions (applying to both survivors and killers), most killers perform perfectly well, with 3-4ks being commonplace, average killrates being above 50% and skill still making a huge difference in the results. These killer players can compete with top survivor teams that practice together all the time, have high levels of coordination and communication, and we want the entire game balanced around that when even just 4-player SWFs using voice comms are unlikely to constitute even 1% of the overall playerbase, let alone then also being highly skilled, coordinated and playing like they are in a tournament?
"Killers are better at the game than survivors so it's a skill issue not a balance issue" - First of all, nobody is a "killer" or "survivor". There are simply players and they may (and countless of them do) at any point choose to play either role. Furthermore, every player is simply human. There is no reason whatsoever to assume players playing killer are better at the game on average than players playing survivor. Statistically, both have to be assumed to be precisely that, average skilled. The only way skill could then relate to the rates would be that playing survivor is simply more difficult for humans than playing killer. Which I don't really think is true (killer is easier at the beginning because survivors have to proactively lead the most mechanically skill-based aspect of the game, namely chases; then survivor is easier at intermediate levels of experience because killers have to battle against mounting gen pressure; and at the advanced and expert levels killer and survivor can be said to be about equally difficult, much in dependence on killer, map and loadouts at play). But even if it were true that survivor is more difficult for humans to play and that's why the rates favour killers, and hell, even if it were true that for some reason players playing survivor on average are just worse at the game despite survivor not being more difficult to play, the reality would still be that with the current game balance state, the result favours killers to the detriment of the average survivor experience, so if the rates were to be deemed undesirable, the reasons wouldn't matter, they would still be looking to improve survival rates.
To touch on some of my opinions surrounding these stats:
The "high MMR" range is simply still much too broad a spectrum to actually show problems that experienced players are aware of. Even if it is only 5% of the playerbase, it has to be kept in mind that huge swathes of the playerbase are sub-100-hour newbies. Look at the 1% and 0.1% of playerbase and you will see that there are a lot of killers out there that are basically never losing or even having anyone escape, especially on characters such as Nurse and Blight, as well as a whole bunch of SWF survivors that are almost always escaping. The issue precisely is that "high MMR" is capped and matches the 0.1% among the 5%, meaning a Knightlight even 500 matches into his "no loadout Nurse 4k streak" can regularly face a Meg that thinks hunting for dull totems is a great idea to counter NOED (all the more so against Nurse, of course). There is a plethora of players in your game that can and do demolish 99-100% of the opponents they get, that is a huge problem. It has to do with the matchmaking (remove the "soft" cap, make the matchmaker less lenient), and with the overpoweredness of specific killers (nerf them - most of all Nurse, Blight and Spirit), specific strategies that still need rebalancing (mostly tunnelling and camping, 3-genning to a lesser extent), specific maps (a few being too killer-sided, a bunch too survivor-sided) and SWF (implement loadout restrictions for SWF, at the very least for 4-SWF).
On the flipside, there are also quite a few killers that will need to be buffed to be able to compete in such an environment where the matchmaking is less lenient and tunnelling/camping rebalanced. Same for solo survivors. Billy is a great example for a killer that was lifted to a state where he is now viable in a competitive matchup. The same thing would have to happen for about one third of the cast (for most other killers slight basekit adjustments and add-on changes would suffice). Solo survivors would already benefit a lot from tunnel/camp/3-gen rebalancing, and more HUD improvements (such as seeing each other's loadouts) can be a great help (the latter can even be part of the solution for the former).
The major reasons why killrates are and have most of always been as high as they are I think are the following: Skill and sweat is much more impactful on the killer side. This is simply because on the survivor side you have 4 players, which have varying levels of skill and of trying to win, with weak links of subpar players that can doom an entire match even if the other 3 players are better than the killer player, and with people not playing in earnest (i. e. not trying to win, but to do funny or stupid things, or tome challenges, or at least not trying hard to win, or just playing for hatch). On the killer side, there is 1 player, their skill level therefore obviously determines 100% of their skill-based performance potential, their degree of "trying to win" 100% of how sweaty their side will be. Any survivor on the other hand can only determine 25% of their side's skill and sweat levels. There is the disparity in strategical game approach as well - again, with 4 players things can be very disconcerted and downright chaotic, whereas on the killer side, even if their approach to the game may not necessarily be good, at least their approach is as concerted as can be, the decisions they make translate into the game as well as the gameplay design allows for them to. The asymmetric nature of this game favours the killer player's skill, tryhardiness and decision-making to have a more notable impact on the outcome of matches. And this of course starts before the match has even begun, at the loadout screen (it is infinitely more common to have a killer that has the best thing equipped in every slot than an entire group of survivors doing the same, again simply because they are 4 players - when have you last seen even just 4 BNPs in a match?). From this viewpoint a 60/40 ratio may also seem sensible, although it further supports the idea that remedying the tunnelling issue is paramount to alleviate the negative impact a weak link can have on the survivor side (and this wouldn't necessarily have to happen by nerfing tunnelling itself (although that seems like the preferable route), it could also be something like increasing generator repair speeds for the remaining survivors if someone dies). The next major reason for the high killrates I think is simply that the game is actually a bit killer-sided in its basic competitive premise, which is the idea that all 5 players are roughly equally skilled and experienced and trying to win, and that the 4 survivors are randoms that have no coordination or communication. Of course it depends on the killer, map and loadouts too, but as long as the killer is using good add-ons and a sensible build, I think about half the killer cast is actually favoured to kill more often than not in that base balance premise.
There is much more that could be said but I've clearly already said too much as is. I don't really care about balance bickering much anymore anyway, these days I mostly play 4-SWF with voice comms with other good players so I have no issues winning 80-90% of our matches, and on killer I haven't in years had issues winning to begin with. If this post has a purpose it's saying BHVR has to do something about the atrocious matchmaking that allows good players to basically never lose (as killer or in 4-SWFs). They don't even have to have it affect 99% of the playerbase, just make the matchmaker much more strict at the highest MMR levels. And bring down the performance potentials of some of the most egregious killers, maps and 4-SWF. I guarantee BHVR knows this perfectly well, they have the stats, they can see the kill and survival rates of the 0.1%, and the fact that they are almost never facing each other.
I almost never respond to you, because i dont think there is much to add. Spot on and as always an unbiased point of view. Hard to deny any of those facts.
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@Firellius said:
Sounds like it's time for some Nurse and Blight buffs. I mean, this proves survivors are OP, clearly?
Waiting for the "I knew it, survivor can actualy beat the Blight if they are really good" post. 😂
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Survivor OP.
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Controlversal opinion incoming.
Maybe those techs were not ment to be but i am glad something like this is in the game. Killer should also be able to express their skill. Some of those technique are hard to pull off, especially in the heat of the moment, and learning and then landing those techs make killer more exciting.
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@Reinami said:
This is a result of survivor players getting exactly what they ask for.
Every single time the devs release a killer, or update a killer to play differently, I.E. Sadako, Pinhead before the box nerfs, old SM (not 3 gen) etc. Survivors complain. Anything that forces survivors off of gens and forces them to do some other action is complained about. So if you can't delay the game with killer powers, then the only other option you have is some kind of utility like stealth (just look at how many posts complain about wraith) or anti-loop.
So survivor players are just getting exactly what they ask for.
I firmly disagree and argue it is much more likely reversed.
Killer complain that they dislike getting looped and are incapeable of getting a downs before the first 2 gens or so pop. So they get those braindead easy anti loop killers that guarantee hits. And lets be real, when we look at the current version and the changes in the past years, which scenario is more likely?
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678721#Comment_3678721
It's a matter of opinion, personally I love playing against macro killers much more then mobility killers because it feels more strategic than running around the same pallet 6 times.
As far Xeno specifically goes yes Xeno can get it's power back very quickly but that's the point, it's testing can you keep pressure on the Xeno with turrets or do you fall behind on keeping turrets up and let the Xeno start downing people. It's just as intense as going against say Billy but in a more team based way instead of 1v1.
Absolutly, it is based on opinions, and everyone has a different taste.
However, if we nail it down to what the majority preferes, Oni, Huntress, Blight or Wesker easily are more well recevied then Alien for example. At least acording to surveys about which killer are most fun to play against.
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So, i have been doing tons of 1v1s against this killer and to put it simple:
Unique Pathing is by far the best counterplay against Unknow. LOS is your best friend. Idealy aproach Main buildings if you can, in a perfect scenario before you get rid of the weakening effect. Awareness if TP is on cooldown or not and where hux are is important.
As silly as it sounds, i have made some very interesting plays like standing still for a very short period of time right before the shot to simply get directly hit by the projectile.
Breaking away (unique pathing again) and be extremly unpredictable is the ultimate goal to last long in chase.
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@Yharwick said:
I personally think the side quest killers like Xeno and Singularity are great, everyone complains about gens being boring. Here are killers that give you something else to do to be useful to your team and people don't wanna do that either. I truly do not know what some people expect.
I am personally however not a fan of those turret side quest. It barely has much impact since Alien can get its power back within a few seconds. Most Killer would simply not chase as a killer without power. This makes the game against Alien very macro heavy but this is not what the majority would prefere.
What some people expect are more fun killers for survivors. And those are usually fast pasted movement based type of killers like Blight, Wesker or Billy. The cool part of that: Killer and survivor should actually be on the same page here. All those named killers are not only insanly fun but also very strong.
But currently we are getting mostly killer that put a thing at a loop and get a hit or at least forces the survivor to not play the tile at all. Look at the releases: Knight, Skull Merchant in some regard Alien and yes, also Chucky. Chucky still has the potental to be a fun killer, but the power is just close to anavoidable. Scamper and S&D works perfectly hand in hand and often times leaves the Survivor with little to no choice. Please dont come with the "but survivors are not supposed to last forever" argument since this is not about that. Its about how a fun killer should look like.
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While beside Hyperfocus they are not that great, they are still interesting.
Obviously the best Skillcheck perk for killer is Merciless Storm on Doctor but there are a few builds like for Freddy that can be okay. Normally they dont work very well against good or even decent survivors but it is still something different, and i like doing different stuff here and there.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677830#Comment_3677830
He is C+ / B- - against decent Survivors he needs best Add-Ons to actually compete, but avg Bubba will not get a good result...
I would agree with B tier, and thats perfectly fine. Really good bubbas will even make you rething if B tier is actually accurate. Perfect his power and become a very powerful force in chase.
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It is true. Those very few people i reported with evidence are still playing the game without penalty. Getting called nasty things is one thing and i just ignore that, but crossing the line (family should die on cancer, get raped ect) should not left unpunished.
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You know, i like the idea but it is not enough and wont help much, if even any. See, i rather would like to go for a better and more effective aproach that actually helps then this - just because i dont want to give killer an argument or a justification for tunneling.
"You have now anti tunnel, what else do you want" while in reality, it changed barely anything.
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@Ayodam said:
I don’t believe you were working with the killer here. The Mikaela probably didn’t know you’d be in chase or farming for so long. She became suspicious. She may have mistakenly believed the Bubba didn’t down you because you were working together searching for her.
Bubba downed me multible times and let me struggle out of their grasp. Then we went to a different part of the map and we repeated the process. I also got downed one time where she could see what is going on.
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No, it is trash. One person sitting down in the basement and doing absolutly nothing for 2 minutes is throwing the game or at the very least an unnecessary penalty for the entire team.
Besides the fact that you basically play a 3v1 during that time and usually dont gain much if any gen progess, you also have insanly difficult other issues to face. If it gets interupted, you lost an insame amount of time. If the ritual gets done during Gens are blocked, survivors get no value at all. The one who does the Ritual is broken for the rest of the trial and a vulnerable target.
And this all just for a few seconds cut off the gens?
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A bit early to judge.
From my first impression, UK is pretty strong and there are many things going for this killer. Jungle Gyms are compared to most killers pretty weak. Splash goes through wall and the projectiles can bounce off. Insta teleport is often helpful in chase, to pressure gens and simply catching survivors off guard. On top of that, UK can do all these things while moving at 115%.
The only real weakness this killer has is ... as for so many... SWF. Communicating is a key element to defeat the Unknown.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
As for me:
- He seems like B tier (mid) Killer. He can be top B tier if you are really good at hitting his shots which is not easy.
- Its pretty easy to remove the Weakend effect before he can hit you twice with your power, you would have to hit two shots ASAP and have window of opportunity to do that which usualy isn't the case.
- His add-ons seems okay, nothing crazy but nothing weak lets say.
- I don't think he will be much popular, prob around Dredge level or bit higher (still below avarage pickrate).
It really depends on how a tier list would look like, so B tier is pretty relative. I dont think he can compete with a strong A tier killer like Wesker, but UK is for sure better then Deathslinger, Knight or Demo (i would considere those 3 B tier)
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There is nothing besides an emergency that will ever make me stay afk. And even then, i would rather DC so they get at least a bot or can move on to the next game.
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Killer.
I dont know how to explain it properly, but survivor also is stressful when i play but it is positive stress. It is excitment. Killer... not so much.
And that is probably also the reason why they keep buffing killer and not going for ballanced aproach in my opinion. Because killer mains are, even tho they win most of the time, probably less satisfied with the game.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677936#Comment_3677936
Well I'm someone who loves Area control/Denial. Yeah just throwing a drone down is easy but this is where the whole 'adapting to who you're against' comes into play.
When you throw a drone you have to keep in mind not only does it deploy where you pressed the button, but the beam is always facing the direction you are meaning if you play with it properly you can deploy a drone in chase while also forcing a survivor into a stack of lockdown. That and using game/map knowledge to identify which loops are priority and what loops chain into what for example I could throw a drone on a loop which might give me some good coverage in that loop OR I could throw it between that loop and another and force a survivor to play the loop in a way that leaving the tile to try and go somewhere much stronger would result in them getting lock on which is a strategy which is so fun and strong on maps that I otherwise hate like Borgo.
Then theres the beam rotation aspect where you have to actually keep in mind the cooldown of bringing up your radar, reversing beam rotation, and then putting it back down in time for some value. Rotating beams is something I don't have fully down yet but in the few games where I do get big brained and have utilized the beam rotation during chase it has helped immensely. Survivors can also loop drone areas if they play it smart which is why I'd rather place them in spots that are transitional as well as some loops that an M1 killer will just usually waste so much time on I can actually play around it with a survivor in a way thats engaging for both of us with them monitoring the drone and me monitoring them and us both trying to figure out the next move. Situations like that are more common with SM when you play her in a very aggressive almost prison warden type style. Watch everyone and strike when you know it'll play out the way you want. Shes such a domino effect killer where making a mistake can cost you the game but playing perfect feels like you're actually being rewarded.
So the strategic factor is the one that is the most interesting for you. Understandable and overall reasonable answer. Personally i much prefere Trapper and Hag over SM by a long shot, but to each their own.
Thanks again for the input. And big YIKESI for the other thread. You know what i am talking about 😆
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
Well I don't get that many DCs with her truthfully and when I do get a DC or someone trying to give up I just sorta laugh but whatever
My main love for her is in everything about her. Cool lore, cool design, cool voice, amazing power, I've been a skully fan since her release. No other killer besides maybe Hag has the area control that SM has and not in the way she has it either. I love the web playstyle of getting survivors into an area that they don't know is exactly where I wanted them to go and getting rewarded for playing smart. Regardless of what people say, matches against good survivors as SM are very largely about how well you can play her and how quick you can adapt to the survivors playing and stuff like this is so fun for me.
It wasn't a bad thing that I found some of her perks fun, I just REALLY wish they'd buff Leverage and THWACK! cause THWACK! got outranked pretty quick and Leverage has always been a weak perk that had great potential.
Thanks for an actual response of a SM player.
Can you clarify in all seriousness what you mean by that:
amazing power
You set a drone. Whats so exciting about that? Some may think i am joking but i really want an answer to that question.
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@Bloodartist said:
- New killer gets released
- People dont know how to play against it
- People complain
- Time passes
- People learn to play against the killer
- There is less complaining
Complains are less, but that does not change the fact that most recent killers are a chore to go against
- Chucky braindead chase power
- Xenomorph braindead chase power
- SM Breaindead chasepower
- Knight braindead chasepower
Did i forget anybody? Singularity is the only killer that is not braindead in chase and has at least some serious counterplay outside of placing turrets and hold W. Not much, but something at least.
Do not want to judge Unknown yet, but from what we have experienced, he is potentially another candidate for that list.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHePmjLpzlkSmall sample size of this epic gameplay.
"Just dodge and look at it"
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Dont even dare to touch my boy Bubba. Thank you.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677768#Comment_3677768
I post 1 art per day. Banned for spamming and bot like behaviour.
Someone said they're a mod in another sub and there is no bot doing such thing; so its may be from human mod. And people are thinking there is a mod in DBDsub has hate toward me.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677740#Comment_3677740
I hired a mini painting artist to paint these, I dont want to ruin them, my board game is probably one of the last, they dont sell Collector edition anymore, only Basegame edition.
Are we talking about this one?
The Complete Dead by Daylight™: The Board Game experience. -
@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677710#Comment_3677710
Ooo that’s a fantastic idea actually, not looking at him to get rid of the weakened state would actually be really interesting IMO.
Kind of goes against his lore but I think this would be a great change to help out newer players and put more experienced players in a unique spot compared to how everyone else is played against.
@Manky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677710#Comment_3677710
That's a really interesting idea, I'm a fan. Making looking at him a punishment rather than a requirement would mean you can still make it to loops without walking into rocks and stuff but not necessarily have a great grasp on how far away he is. It would make survivors who aren't great at checking behind them have to think about when they can look rather then forcing them to look constantly. This seems way more interactive and friendly to more skill brackets.
Not familiar with the lore, but the gameplay would help new players and actually make it harder for better players instead of making it only hard for beginners. I am suprised that BHVR did not do it this way. It was litteraly my first thought when i played my first match against this killer.
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So nice! Have you done the painting by yourself?
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If we ignore Slinger (tome) chucky is still top 5 most players killers at the moment.
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@Feneroe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677444#Comment_3677444
BHVR can't design everything for people incapable of doing the most basic things. Eventually, people just have to learn how to play the game.
BHVR cant design everything for new players? Excuse me...
What exactly is design for new players? Name one thing. Tutorial? Pretty bad. Tons of Maps, Perks, Killer, structures, techs ect ect to learn? Sure thing. Questionable Ballancing? Absolutly. Millions upon Millions of Bloodpoints to spend to get anything decent? You can bet on that.
And now, a killer that is designed the dumbest way possible for beginners. They easily suffer the most, while experience players have it much more chill, even in comparison. They should reverse it that you cant look at it rather then look at it. That would actually be much smarter and would put a layer on it we have not seen yet.
And dont make me even start with the Hux thingy. SWF already have an advantage over solo, but in particular with this killer.
"Going from main to shack"
"Roger roger, i destroy the Hux there for you"
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@GeneralV said:
The only reason why this perk isn't the worst perk in Dead by Daylight's history is because original Déjà Vu existed.
Original Deja highlighted 3 gens for a short period of time. That is not much but something.
Using Weaving Spider actually puts the team in a disadvantage.
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The way survivors get ride off the weakening effect is by looking at the killer. Great! BHVR must hate their beginner to average playerbase who are not always looking behind during chase. What a questionable design desicion.
Sorry that i can not give good advises at this point since i also dont have many hours with/against this killer. How i won my rounds against Unknown is by destroying as many Hux as possible. How i lost my rounds is people being unpredictable with their movement and actually not running to close to walls. Walls are dangerous, thats for sure.
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Sure, its an option, but what would survivors get in exchange?