SmolBlob
SmolBlob
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No, it’s as stupid as being able to block specific killers.
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This is as stupid as expecting a way to avoid SWF.
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325250#Comment_3325250
Uhh what? Nurse goes straight through most tiles
If the destination isn’t open space, she blinks to the closest open space, aka shorter. Or has to go around.
example: She’s blinking to point A. Between her is a 2m thick wall right in front of her, and at 16m away, there’s a 5m thick rock or wall or whatever. Then she’s going to blink in front of the rock wall because she can’t go the full 20m.
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@sonata93 said:
In my honest opinion, I think the current hatch mechanic is (generally) okay/fair. Much, much better than the old days when 2 or more survivors would teabag right in front of you and use a key to open the hatch at 2 gens.
The way I see it is: the hatch spawn is pretty random, so both the killer and the survivor have a pretty equal chance of finding it first. It's pretty much down to luck and game RNG, which, in my opinion, is as fair as the hatch mechanic can be.
I do agree that 'slugging for the hatch' can be pretty annoying, particularly if you're the slugged survivor. Similarly, trying to find a stealthy survivor who wants the hatch and is not willing to pick-up their teammate or attempt a gen can also be annoying as killer. But, it's important to consider that the game still moves forward as the slugged survivor would eventually bleed-out anyway and one of you will get their first either way. Boring gameplay imo, and when I play killer or survivor I refuse to play in this way. I'd rather at least try and get more BP's even if it costs me a kill or an escape. As I said though, I don't know how they can fix this issue.
The problem is when they’re all standing and hiding. Finding them is unrealistic without spending an insane amount of time. The survivors break the rules and refuse to play the game. So the game can’t end.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325286#Comment_3325286
She surely is - if someone is not completely biased. A design failure that is allowed far too long in this game.
The next weeks might be alright, because it might happen that not many players will play her anymore (because she is "ruined"), but afterwards, it will all happen again because BHVR only does some half-assed Nerfs to her.
But I dont need to tell you that she is broken.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. She performs evenly against players of equal skill level and knowledge against her, unbalanced maps not withstanding (giant/tiny maps, etc). She also has a negative kill rate at the highest levels of play. And unlike you, I can back up the claims.
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@Xernoton said:
Congrats. You found a setup where Nurse and Trapper have the same mobility. You forgot something though. Walking in a straight line to get from one side of the map to the other only works on maybe 2 maps? 3? Screw it, I'm too lazy to go through all the maps and count so let's say there might be 5. Nurse has the advantage because she can go right through whatever obstacle might be in the way while other killers will need to walk around wasting their time.
If the blink destination is inside an obstacle, she has to under blink or blink to the side. So she also cannot always go straight through everything.
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@Audiophile said:
From the 20 or so games I’ve used it in the past couple days, Huntress is the main issue. A common build has Lethal, BBQ, and then 1 or 2 others like Bitter Murmur, NTH, AA… and shes tricky to recharge with.
BBQ: Be in 40m
NtH: Don’t be near gens she’s trying to obviously kick
AA: Don’t be near a slug
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You don’t need to justify anything within the rules to anyone ever in the first place. Camping two close hooked survivors is just smart.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325269#Comment_3325269
Oh, I play her. And she has the best Map PRESSURE. But not the best Map mobility.
But yeah, you had "countless end game chats". Or just another sad try to pretend that Nurse is not broken.
Nurse isn’t broken.
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If you aren’t recharging them fast enough, you need to get closer. Also it makes it obvious what perks the killer has, so play around them so you don’t need to spend a token. BBQ? Be within 40m. Etc.
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@TheArbiter said:
Tbf though this is assuming the m1 killer can travel to the generator in a perfectly straight line without objects being in the way. Nurse would be faster in those instances
Nurse can’t travel a perfectly straight line either. If the destination is blocked by an object, she has to underblink or blink to the side.
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No thanks, I like going against a lot of the common killers.
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+1.
Anyone who’s ever bothered to do the math would realize they are almost identical across long distances. Nurse excels in shorter distances and when there’s a lot of things to go through that others would have to go around for. Not in overall distance traversal. Blight indisputably hard-trumps her in that.
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Knowingly playing on bad internet is your fault.
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Distortion single handedly almost hard counters even 4 aura perk builds. The tokens are going to be up often enough to block most reads.
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@Quizzy said:
So what i gathered. I believe in order to prevent a report game hostage on the survivors end is to at least show that the gens have progressed a bit even if the killer hasnt found you for an extended time.
You cant get banned if you at least have shown you have done a little of progress regardless of how long it takes. You're still progressing the game....little by little of course even if ur hiding alot.
As long as you are attempting to actually progress the game, yes. Note, that does not mean tapping a gen for 0.01s and then going back to hiding.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324021#Comment_3324021
maybe that would lead to the necessary changes.
There are no necessary changes.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323835#Comment_3323835
So you want me to record 15+ minutes of no chases, no hits, no generator kicking, no healing?
It can get them potentially banned.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323425#Comment_3323425
Survivors are not "forbidden" from waiting for the survivors to die, if it's something that happens for a long period of time yes, but this is a situation that very rarely happens and doesn't mean that hatch needs to be changed.
You could just check the dev responses and realize you’re wrong.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323369#Comment_3323369
The goal isn't to buff 12-hooking into viability, it's to make camping and tunneling not the best strategies.
Except:
People that tunnel or camp because they don't care do it no matter what.
So camping and tunnelling need to not just be 'not the best strategies', they need to be wholly incompetent. And you don't achieve that with a 15 second grace period or 'guaranteed trades'.
Also, I don't know why you're ranting about topics that have literally nothing to do with the original thread. Go make one about tunneling/camping if you want to talk about it that much. This thread is about hatch incentivizing poor design. Whataboutism gets you nowhere.
To remind you: You came up with the argument that lose/lose situations are fine if one side outskills the other too much, to which I replied that that argument has never flown for when killers are on the losing end, as evidenced by how tunnelling and camping are treated on the forums.
Again, go make a thread about that if you want to rant about something else. Whataboutism gets you nowhere.
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I’m lost. Endurance is better than the perk you’re suggesting.
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Negating Killer Instinct literally defeats the entire point of Killer Instinct. No. The literal point of Killer Instinct is the power that employs it can see through everything.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323408#Comment_3323408
No, it isn't. Any game mechanic that requires you to sit and do nothing is not a skill. This is bad as "Just wait it out" as an excuse for dealing with Dead Hard.
It doesn’t require you to anything. What I just said is the easiest and laziest available solution. If you want to not wait the 30s, go in and then don’t get downed for those 30s.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322525#Comment_3322525
All of these comments were made before the hatch was changed, which would show the hatch to multiple survivors alive, now, as the hatch literally cannot be available AND closed to multiple survivors anymore, not everything these people have said means a lot as the rules have changed, one survivor cannot "hide forever" and wait for hatch because the hatch will only show when they're the only one alive, which means it will be immediately opened and possible to be closed.
If what you're saying is true, than survivors would literally be breaking the rules by not saving the last survivor.
???
It means the survivors are forbidden from hiding and waiting for the others to die so they can try to get hatch. For example, if there’s two survivors left and both are standing (read: not downed or hooked), they are required to work on gens. Not doing so is against the rules. If one of the last two is downed or hooked, then it’s not because hook timer/bleed out timer is only a few minutes and guaranteed finite.
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Wait 30s. Skill issue.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323061#Comment_3323061
Playing without tunneling and camping should be more desirable.
Yes, and you can achieve that by nerfing tunnelling and camping. Because aiming for the other way around means buffing killers out the wazoo. Currently, tunnelling (And to a lesser extent camping) are the most efficient tactics available. If you want to make 12-hooking more attractive, you'll have to make it easier, more consistent and more reliable than tunnelling and camping.
Also, I've already literally stated in that post that people that want to tunnel or camp regardless will do so no matter what no matter how many nerfs you give to those playstyles.
No. Because if a killer that hard tunnels has to chew through a variety of anti-tunnel measures and is basically guaranteed to prove himself a salty loser, that's probably going to massively diminish the prevalence of tunnelling.
Conversely, you can buff 12-hooking until it's 'more desirable', but that doesn't mean that people can't just knock out a quick 4K by still just tunnelling. You acknowledge that there's going to be people that will continue to tunnel and camp, but then you're opposed to taking the nerfbat directly to them, as if kindly asking them to stop is going to dissuade them from being major trolls.
you'd realize that's why I enormously strengthened anti-camping and anti-tunneling measures
All you suggested was to increase the duration of baseline BT! Which we already know doesn't work, because it's functionally barely distinct from what we have currently!
And what "simple changes" are you talking about that got axed? I'd like some proof.
DS got its stun duration cut by 40%, and Reassurance got a double nerf to its usability, restricting it to, literally, ONCE PER MATCH. Both of these perks were focused on specifically countering tunnelling and camping and both got -decimated- by the changes.
Which is why my initial post covered literally both buffing non-tunneling/camping and nerfing tunneling/camping, but it seems like you either can't read or willingly refuse to read.
People that tunnel or camp because they don't care do it no matter what. They don't care if it's inefficient. They do it out of stupid reasons like trying to spite the other survivors.
The goal isn't to buff 12-hooking into viability, it's to make camping and tunneling not the best strategies.
"Opposed to taking the nerfbat directly to them" as I say that pre-endgame basekit BT should be literal invincibility instead and to remove hook grabs entirely so that survivors can at least always guaranteed trade rather than be grabbed off entirely. Please don't bother replying if you're going to blatantly ignore everything said that doesn't match what you want to read. It's a waste of everyone's time.
DS stun duration nerf was stupid. Reassurance nerf was also stupid.
Also, I don't know why you're ranting about topics that have literally nothing to do with the original thread. Go make one about tunneling/camping if you want to talk about it that much. This thread is about hatch incentivizing poor design. Whataboutism gets you nowhere.
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Survivors are gods? Any players are gods? Are we playing the same game? The odds that you'll face literally anyone of that level on either side is so infinitesimally small to the point of being practically negligible.
Just because you lost doesn't mean they're gods. It means you underperformed. Improve yourself instead of blaming others and complaining about them. You can beat 99% of lobbies just off being better than them, regardless of your build or their build. This is a skill issue.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322173#Comment_3322173
So? If people DC for stupid reasons, write off the game and try it in the next one. Killer Adepts aren't going to be so hard that you need the stars to align anymore, it'll happen in less than 5 games.
Mmh yes, an entire game's worth of time should be completely wasted because some moron decided to ragequit. Brilliant idea.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322594#Comment_3322594
It's always the solution offered by killer players: 'Just buff killers out the wazoo and we'll tunnel less!'
Except 6.1 proved that to not be the case.
But this is also part of what I mean with the whole 'that argument doesn't fly'. This whole idea that 12-hooking is too difficult doesn't take killer skill into account the same way that you're fine with forcing survivors to lose because 'the other side just played better'. Say they did everything you asked for, what's to stop you or any other killer from coming back here on the forums as soon as they get a 2K instead of a 4K, to complain about how they're feeling forced to tunnel, because even with gigantanormous buffs to killer, they're still not competent enough to 12-hook?
Not to mention that camping/tunnelling are currently low effort, high reward strategies, so leaving them untouched will keep them as viable options. Yes, you can never truly and completely solve those two, but you can at least make it so killers frustrate themselves more than their opponents with some really simple changes that have already been tried and proven effective. They just got axed because killers whinged about it.
I wish I was as good as you at ignoring literally everything else except just what I want to read after blatant whataboutisms in an unrelated topic. Tunneling and camping are employed as strategies. The game should not be balanced around 12-hooking, because that's a target balance of a 100% guaranteed kill-rate. But tunneling and camping should not be the most incentivized strategies for killers to employ in the first place. Playing without tunneling and camping should be more desirable.
Also, I've already literally stated in that post that people that want to tunnel or camp regardless will do so no matter what no matter how many nerfs you give to those playstyles. Because those people don't care in the first place whether it's actually a good strategy or not. People that complain that they're not competent enough to 12-hook every game and expect the game to change for their sake are moronic and entitled.
Camping and tunneling are high risk options against better players, but difficult for less-experienced players to deal with. Which is literally why if you bothered reading what I said at all in that post, you'd realize that's why I enormously strengthened anti-camping and anti-tunneling measures, in return for buffing playing without camping or tunneling. Then if a killer wants to tunnel or camp regardless for some reason, it's much easier for survivors to deal with even at lower skill levels.
And what "simple changes" are you talking about that got axed? I'd like some proof.
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No game is fully server-sided, because that is an absolutely tremendous computational load for the servers to handle. Which is why even games with really well-developed anti-cheat systems still handle a lot of things on the client-side.
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@AmpersandUnderscore Stop making excuses for survivors literally breaking the rules to the point they could literally potentially get banned. People should not be obligated to be forced to use certain perks/add-ons/killers/etc just in case the other side decides to literally break the rules to take the game hostage. Ever.
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You swing just before they're close enough to drop the pallet. Then they're forced to Dead Hard, but cannot drop the pallet, and you will likely catch back up with them fairly quick.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322577#Comment_3322577
What are you talking about "refusing to participate in normal gameplay"? And who defines this? If there's one or two people left they're not obligated to sit on the gens just so they're "participating" in the match the way you want. I highly doubt BHVR is going to start punishing people in the ridiculous way you're suggesting. Make arguments effective with logic, not Hyperbole.
If you took literally 5 seconds to scroll up, you would realize you are blatantly wrong.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322583#Comment_3322583
That argument never flies when people talk about getting camping and tunnelling nerfed, strangely.
The way you make camping and tunneling go down is by buffing leaving the hook and buffing chasing someone that isn’t the unhooked survivor. Which I support. Doesn’t make this not whataboutism though.
People that do it just because they want to will do it no matter what and no amount of nerfs in the world will stop them.
People that do it because of strategy will do it less if leaving the hook and chasing someone who isn’t the unhooked survivor is more rewarding.
For example: Post-Unhook Endurance buffed to 15s but collision is removed so they cannot bodyblock for allies. If gens aren’t done, it is 15s of Invincibility instead. Deactivates under same conditions as Endurance would.
Hooking a survivor that isn’t the most recent unhooked gives a reward. For example, most progressed generator is damaged by X%, or all gens are damaged by a lower Y% or so.
Leaving 24m? or so radius of the hook gives a reward as long as you stay out if it unless you are chasing someone in those 24m. For example, basekit Ruin-like temporary effect to reward pushing survivors off other generators, or BBQ style aura to chase someone else.
Hook grabs are removed but all unhook speed bonus sources are removed and unhook becomes uncancellable. Attacking someone unhooking has a static unalterable cooldown. This way, camping can be a guaranteed trade but not preventing the unhook altogether, and means divebombing hook still requires a trade.
And obviously, slowdown perks/second chance perks/etc would be readjusted to fit/nerfed or changed as necessary.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322521#Comment_3322521
Also the fact that the game can put them in a situation where doing gens is a guaranteed loss doesnt help
Not necessarily. If one side is overwhelmingly dominating the others, of course the number of options available that aren’t accepting losing will drastically decrease. Killing 2 survivors before gens are done/Opening gate before anyone is dead is a one-sided beatdown. That doesn’t mean it’s an issue (outside of matchmaking/solo queue issues maybe). It means one side did a lot better than the other.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322565#Comment_3322565
Except hiding is a key part of the game.
Hiding and refusing to repair or do anything to progress the game is different from something like hiding when killer comes around. The first is against the rules because you literally are refusing to participate in normal gameplay. The second is not.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322541#Comment_3322541
Except it's way easier to get an endgame kill than it is to clear multiple gens when there's 3 or fewer survivors left. Take away the hatch, survivors literal only avenue for victory in a LOT of matches is to just hold the game hostage until the killer gives up.
Let me reword what I said earlier: Being in that situation means you already lost.
Hiding and doing nothing should not be an avenue for victory, ever.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322525#Comment_3322525
Hon, the hatch is an in-game mechanic, and waiting to escape through it is a normal gameplay strategy. Because it is an in-game mechanic. But if you’re convinced survivors who wait for hatch are breaking, let’s ask a dev in real time. :)
Please stop spreading blatant lies, thanks. You have the posts from devs you can look through. Clicking on them leads you to the original thread. It’s okay to be wrong, but it’s important you learn from your mistakes.
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@HugTheHag said:
The thing is that waiting for hatch is okay if you're the only one doing it.
If your teammate is dying being slugged, it's okay to wait for hatch. The game is progressing, since in a couple minutes the slug will die. If 2 or more survivors are hard stealthing and not doing gens, then the game literally can't progress.
I think hatch is an important mechanic in the game, because snowballing is extremely common, and since it's a 4v1, entire games could be doomed for all survivors from the first 30s (like, if someone DCs or gives up on first hook). In cases where it's impossible to come back from one early mistake that was beyond your control, hatch is the last hope that makes sure not everything is about the snowball.
I wouldn't be against a system that would be akin to : 4 different potential hatches exist, invisible, in the game. One for each survivor. For your hatch to spawn when you'll be the last survivor alive, you have to have done a certain number of actions. It could even be a side objective, like going to flip a switch on a corner of the map , the aura of which you see once you've done the equivalent of 1 gen of repair or been chased for a total of 1 minute. It would add a side objective to slow down the gens.
That way, you couldn't just wait for hatch doing nothing else for the team.
It wouldn't solve the problem of the "2 last survivors each want for the other to be found first", but that's a game design problem that's not linked directly to the hatch, it's about how the objective for survivor is impossible to achieve in some circonstances, and it would need more reworks to be fixed.
If one is already downed, yes. If not, no.
Your idea is interesting. I had a similar concept recently where the hatch outright would not spawn unless enough progression (chase/gens/etc) was done, and only survivors with enough PERSONAL amount of progression could use the hatch. So between Survivor A that does a ton and Survivor B that does nothing, B literally can’t use the hatch. Furthermore, that the hatch could spawn at 2 left instead of 1, meaning killer would be incentivized to kill the third ASAP so fourth doesn’t have enough time to get the progression to escape.
Furthermore, only one person of the two could use the hatch and EGC starts after. EGC was also changed so unless the remaining survivor got enough progression, gates also will not be powered unless all gens are done. This way, they can’t just hide and hope to get a gate escape instead. Obviously, this would mean gens are still reparable instead of auto completed and blocked.
Pair that with survivors that hide and do nothing being revealed by Killer Instinct, and hiding becomes guaranteed death.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322530#Comment_3322530
So you want to create a solid lose/lose situation where the survivors are forced to lose, without any control on their part?
If you’re at 2 survivors left and you still haven’t completed the generators, if the killer has a brain, you lost regardless. Also the control survivors had was not ending up in that situation in the first place.
Much like how if a killer gets no one on death hook or dead when gates are open and the survivors play it well, that is at least guaranteed 3 out if not 4. By that point, it already has long since reached a tipping point. The chance to change things has mostly already passed. Yeah, a last second turnaround is possible, but extremely unlikely without a miracle or massive misplays.
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@Mr_K said:
Without the hatch they will sit and hide for as long as it takes for the killer to find them.
Maybe its really the player and not the mechanic.
So then implement a mechanic that reveals survivors hiding and doing nothing to the killer. Then hiding becomes certain death.
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@Ayodam said:
Waiting for hatch isn’t against the rules (I believe Mandy stated such a couple months back). Deliberating playing in a griefing or trolling way is. Survivors don’t have to complete gens to advance the trial. They can wait for hatch and play as selfishly as they want and that is perfectly fine. Peanits specifically said survivors can play for themselves if they want. Slugging for a 4K is closer to breaking that rule you’re referencing than a survivor waiting for hatch.
Wrong. You are required to attempt to repair.
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006823#Comment_1006823
It is, yes. Blocking someone in a corner is just one of the ways it can happen.
EDIT: Specifically if they're making no attempt to finish generators, and the hatch isn't available (so you can't close it and start the EGC).
@Mandy said:
I think the question to this has been answered many posts prior to this, but I will emphasise - Not participating in normal gameplay can result in a ban and taking the game hostage is not normal gameplay.
Video evidence is required of course and an in game report also mandatory.
Furthermore, the Game Rules posted on this forum ARE the Official Game rules, please do not doubt that, it's something we've made clear many times before. And it's a players responsibility to make themselves aware what is in these rules.
@Peanits said:
Struggling on the hook is not taking the game hostage, first of all. It's only considered to be holding the game hostage when it's indefinite or for an extended period of time. The longest you can stay on a hook is 2 minutes (+34 seconds if you happen to have Camaraderie).
Beyond that, nobody is allowed to take the game hostage. Whether that's survivors crouching around in corners refusing to touch generators to drag on the game for half an hour or a killer blocking someone in the corner and refusing to kill them, it's reportable either way.
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If a 10 hour player beats 10,000 hour players, those latter players are actually trolling.
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Ah yes, let’s buff Sprint Burst into the exact reason that got Dead Hard nerfed for being overpowered and uncounterable.
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@Seraphor said:
With how easy killer Adepts are about to be, I don't see why. It'll only take a few games to get a 4K when you get your quota of potato survivors. Otherwise the Adept meta will just be camping until survivors DC to spite you.
Survivor Adepts shouldn't count killer DC's either btw.
On one hand, yes. On the other hand, people DC for stupid reasons.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Win the game as completely as possible, but without playing like a jerk to do so.
That sounds like an actual challenge. An... Achievement even.
People DC regardless for stupid reasons.
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Worth noting that this also smooths over the inconsistency between Survivor and Killer Adepts. If Killer DCs, it counts as an Escape and thus counts for Survivor Adept. But for whatever reason, Survivor DCs do not count as a Kill, and thus do not count for Killer Adept.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
First fix matchmaking so it actually works then maybe you can do that.
??? What does matchmaking have to do with people breaking the rules by being AFK?
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Nurse is perfectly fine.
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Because free infinite self-action speed is not healthy design?
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@Sparxlost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320010#Comment_3320010
it is not a NERF thread it is a rework thread....
i personally think these changes would make nurse more accessible and easier to play...
She doesn't need to be more accessible or easier to play. She's perfectly fine the way she is.