SmolBlob
SmolBlob
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Not a bug.
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@Seraphor said:
What happens when I'm on my first hook state and the only other survivor has just been caught?
How do I attempt to unhook myself?
It’s why I said the other option is making the penalty something other than remaining time on hook. Eg a debuff after being unhooked. Would still allow attempts but not immediate suicide on hook.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/359208/remove-the-ability-to-suicide-on-hook
Why should I get penalized for being left on hook at 5 gens going to 2nd stage watching one teammate get chased and 2 others self-caring in corners instead of going for the rescue. I'm sorry but when those are my teammates that game is already a loss and I have every right to let myself die on hook and not waste my time.
I get what you're going for but your idea is overly strict and @Stabby_Widdershins had the same theory on the first 2 points for sure, I will explain why the first 2 points themselves ate problematic and include a fairer way to work that system that I posted in Stabby's thread.
1. Unhook attempts are removed entirely (unless Deliverance) or penalty is changed to something other than time remaining.This doesn't work because sometimes even without deliverence you need to try and unhook yourself, and if you change the penalty there would be no reason to not always try to uhook yourself every time.
2. Struggle skillchecks are removed entirely or changed to only count for Bloodpoints.This wouldnt be a huge difference but it would take away alot of the tension of being on 2nd hook, while for some players it makes no difference because they always hit all there skill checks regardless, that doesnt apply to everyone and the mechanic is fine as is.
Thus is the response I left in Stabby's thread that Im not sure anyone saw but would be a much better solution in terms of punishing the more problematic hook suicides while allowing some of the more reasonable ones.
The simple answer is to make a hook suicide count as a dc, with the following conditions not counting as hook suicides.If you have been hooked twice. Lets you still leave if being tunneled or hook farmed.Hooked once with 60 seconds of time on hook, add an individual timer for each survivor so they can moniter and make the descision based on why they havent been unhooked in that time and makes sure your not punishing players who just get left on hook to die, or have teammates that are so incompetent the match is gonna be a loss regardless.If there are 2 or less active survivors (not downed, dead, or on hook), to make for still being able to give hatch to teammate.This would still let people do it but apply the dc penalty to them.It can still be worked around so players arent "forced to play" but I dont think requiring 2 hook states or at least 60 sec of total hook time when there are 3 players still standing is too much to ask.Because you queued up for a match. Don’t queue up if you can’t handle it.
- The penalty can be something like being Broken or some other debuff for 20s for every failed self-unhook attempt once unhooked, regardless of by self or others. Still a sizable penalty, but doesn’t allow suicide on hook.
- A "feeling of tension" isn’t good enough reason to let a mechanic used to suicide on hook stay.
- Bad teammates is not a valid or acceptable excuse to suicide. No.
- Give Up should only be at 1 active or less. Because 2 active means they can’t get hatch anyways.
- People SHOULD be forced to play out the match they queued up for.
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A "Spend All Bloodpoints" button would be especially nice. Even if there was an auto-complete current web button, I don’t want to have to press that a mind-numbing number of times to get through literally millions of Bloodpoints. I want to spend 4 million+ BP in a single click.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304481#Comment_3304481
There is a wide gulf between leaving someone slugged because you can't pick them up, and slugging for the 4K.
Neither of those are problems.
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Nurse and Blight are perfectly fine with the exception of a free addons.
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@Eruptionbestperkever said:
Buff ds 5/4 seconds and make it to where the perk is activated until the doors are open and when the gates open it deactivates to stop the free win I feel like it going when the last gen pops especially in solo q is a punch in the gut and happens too often off the record is too boring for me it’s just another endurance perk and not to mention the camping and the tunnelling that goes on in this game it needs looked at because a game is always gonna have a meta why make perks useless and I miss ruin ?
"Healthy" and active after last generator is finished are contradictory. No.
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DBD is not P2W. At all whatsoever.
First of all, you can win with literally any sort of build regardless of character or loadout, regardless of side. You do not ever need any specific anything to win, other than your own skill. Gen regression? Unnecessary. Second chance? Unnecessary. Meta killer/good map offerings? Unnecessary.
Second of all, said content that gives the best advantage would have to be locked exclusively to people that pay. This is also false. All 3 S-tier killers (Nurse, Blight, Spirit) are completely free. Nurse is part of the base game. Blight and Spirit can both be obtained with Iridescent Shards. All perks, licensed or not, can be obtained for free in the Shrine of Secrets with Iridescent Shards.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I've never had a game where this was an issue, personally. So when I read these posts I have to assume the situation where survivors are hiding for 'indefinite or extended amounts of time' is incredibly rare.
A short, 5 minutes timer with these conditions won't resolve the problem of 'extreme hiding'. For one thing, the most common, legitimate gameplay strategy form of hiding is when the killer is slugging for the 4k. There's zero reason, strategically, to reveal yourself as the last survivor standing in that scenario. It takes 4 minutes for the other survivor to bleed out, so the last survivor would be revealed looking for the hatch quite often.
Or, in a 3-gen scenario (for any reason), you could just have permanently revealed survivors because the 3-gen could take a long time to actually complete one, or never. Even if the survivors are actively trying to break the 3-gen to win, running to avoid damage and not entering chase would trigger your conditions.
But most importantly, survivors who actually do this will just bring a boon and switch between a handful of totems to keep the timer down. The same reason idle crows don't solve this problem: people will just play around them.
What you are looking for instead is a monitor on the match as a whole, not individuals. So the server detects chases, *any* gen progress at all, health states gained or lost, etc. Basically BP gaining events.
If none of that is detected, then a switch spawns at the back wall of the basement that anyone in the game can trigger to start a stalemate collapse. This is just the end game collapse timer, but without opening or powering the exit gates. Progressing the game pauses the timer, but any time is permanently lost, even if the gates are powered later.
And while we're targeting hostage scenarios, any player idle long enough to get any number of idle crows loses collision with other players. Crows also disable that player's items, perks, add-ons, and killer power until they are active enough to have lost all crows gained. Idle killers can now also get crows, but this does not give 'explosion' notifications to survivors.
This is an interesting idea. Regarding a few points you said:
- Hiding during last 2 for an extended time when the other survivor hasn’t been downed yet is against the rules. Because at that point, it’s not a definite 4m timer. It’s an indefinite hostage situation until someone goes down.
- Didn’t think about people running early during 3-gen, which would prevent chase from starting. Good catch.
- A solution to boon-swapping could be making it so booning Dulls don’t reset the timer, only pause while Booning. Getting rid of Hexes makes sense, but with this, they’d have to continuously go across the map to swap boons just to pause the timer, while losing time crossing the map to do so. And by crossing the map, killer is more likely to find them.
- The global monitor idea is interesting. I think necessary criteria would be generator progress, gaining or losing a health state, snuffing or booning a Hex, chase, and being unhooked/rescued from killer grasp. I think that covers all the ones that actually matter. Also generator progress would have to still be a minimum amount, so people can’t tap a generator for 0.01s and then hide again.
- Just for clarification, by stalemate collapse, do you mean a draw? Because I don’t agree with that. If survivors are hiding and refusing to play, timer end should be death for all survivors.
- I agree with the crow idea. It would prevent dumb situations of being bodyblocked into a corner forever.
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@C3Tooth said:
The game has so many escape option for the last survivor: Last one being alive with hatch & 2 Gates.
But the 3rd survivor has remaining the exact escape options like the 1st one: 5 Gen complete
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There should be harsher escape option for the 1st one to escape, but the later survivors who still in the trial, the more escape options they have.
I would make Gen 80sec, but requires 6 Gens complete if 4 survivors still stand. This would make it really hard to have all 4 survivors to escape.
3 survivors alive requires 5 Gens complete to power Gates. When 5 Gens complete and 1 Gen remaining required, this would let killer options to slug the last hook in attempt to get more hook on other survivors to make them have less chance to escape in end game ; or last hook the survivor and power the Gates.
2 survivors alive requires 4 Gens complete to power Gates. If they complete 5 Gens, hatch will spawn, a unique chest that contain Key also spawn on the opposite side of the map.
The last survivors have the same options as usual.
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As long as the 3rd survivors have the same escape options to the 1st survivors: 5 Gens complete. To achieve 40% escape rate, 5 Gens should be done 2/3 of all time, which should not be a thing.
That's definitely an idea. Not sure if it would be a good one, but it'd be an interesting idea I wouldn't mind seeing tested out on a PTB.
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@HugTechLover said:
That is not taking the game hostage.
Wrong.
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006823#Comment_1006823
It is, yes. Blocking someone in a corner is just one of the ways it can happen.
EDIT: Specifically if they're making no attempt to finish generators, and the hatch isn't available (so you can't close it and start the EGC).
@Peanits said:
Struggling on the hook is not taking the game hostage, first of all. It's only considered to be holding the game hostage when it's indefinite or for an extended period of time. The longest you can stay on a hook is 2 minutes (+34 seconds if you happen to have Camaraderie).
Beyond that, nobody is allowed to take the game hostage. Whether that's survivors crouching around in corners refusing to touch generators to drag on the game for half an hour or a killer blocking someone in the corner and refusing to kill them, it's reportable either way.
@Mandy said:
I think the question to this has been answered many posts prior to this, but I will emphasise - Not participating in normal gameplay can result in a ban and taking the game hostage is not normal gameplay.
Video evidence is required of course and an in game report also mandatory.
Furthermore, the Game Rules posted on this forum ARE the Official Game rules, please do not doubt that, it's something we've made clear many times before. And it's a players responsibility to make themselves aware what is in these rules.
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Due to the forum rules, I am refraining from saying it.
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Complaints about Nurse will never not get old. People see the explanation, ignore it. Sees her being balanced when she’s put against actually equal skill level players, ignore it.
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DBD players when they have to wait a few seconds
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For example, instead of a failed self-unhook attempt being -20s left, it could be the survivor is Broken (or some other debuff) for ??? seconds per failed attempt after being self OR ally-unhooked. That way, it’s still a sizable penalty, but not one that can be used to suicide on hook.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
I suggested this in my own thread and got told 'You can't make people stay' and other such things.
Apparently having good sportsmanship is considered bad these days.
It’s not like removing the loophole makes people incapable of still ragequitting. It just means they would have to actually take the punishment they deserve instead of having a loophole. It’s hilarious how willing people are to tell on themselves how immature and selfish they are.
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Don’t queue if you aren’t going to play it out.
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@Pulsar said:
Replace them with bots and then remove the penalty.
Keeps everyone happy. Nobody has to play a game they aren't enjoying, Killers don't lose BP and Survivors don't instantly lose. Oh, but people who play in a toxic way looking for reactions get cucked.
There’s a really, really easy way to never get the DC penalty on purpose. People just have to not be immature ######### that ragequit the moment the match doesn’t go how they want. They should be forced to play it out, because they queued up for it. How every other major multiplayer game does, because letting people ragequit without penalty ruins the game for the rest.
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It is standard for multiplayer games to have a penalty for quitting or giving up before the match is over. It is also standard to not have a loophole to bypass said penalty. DBD should not be an exception.
AFKing is reportable and the game can be made so it automatically kicks AFK players and give them the DC penalty anyways. Sandbagging is also reportable, and it boils down to one of two potential results.
- The person is too obvious about throwing, and they get banned.
- They play enough to be a bad player (on purpose) but still play. Which still achieves the intended result of forcing them to play out the game they queued for, which is perfect. And to be frank, it’ll probably be average DBD player level anyways.
Want to DC? Then accept your penalty for ruining a match with your selfishness.
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The reason punishment measures have not been added is because every almost single one has been tested and scrapped by BHVR for being exploitable.
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You sweet summer child.
Old Mettle worked on every 2 basic attacks instead of protection hits.
Old BT worked on the unhooker too, putting killer into lose-lose.
Old DS worked starting from first down, didn’t even need to be unhooked.
Old Balanced literally was responsible for infinites.
Old Sprint Burst had a 20s cooldown. Yes, cooldown. Exhaustion didn’t exist at the time. Which meant yes, it did go down while running.
We’ll Make It used to work on self-healing and could stack up to 3 times for +300% speed.
Initial Unrelenting + STBFL meant basically no cooldown on attacks whatsoever.
Old Tinkerer sped up killer powers, making for absolutely stupid busted cases.
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Is this a joke? If not, that’s bewildering. They were nerfed because of how problematic they were. They should literally never ever go back to that iteration.
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I don’t know where people got this completely stupid misconception the recode made her easier. It didn’t change how she played at all except for bugs like the second blink not working occasionally. The bugs weren’t something that happened every time, and fixing bugs doesn’t make something easier when the player knows what to do anyways but the game just didn’t let them do it occasionally.
Also, the argument that bad killers are harder is also stupid. That’s a problem with them, not Nurse. Part of their difficulty is because they are just bad in the first place. That means they should be made better.
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Her basekit is fine. The add-ons that give her a third blink or extra range are not.
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Nurse isn't a problem. The add-ons that give extra blink range and a third blink are.
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@HugTheHag said:
People can play how they want, that's true. I'm no one to tell them how to enjoy the game.
However, if that player shows no respect for their opponents, and plays in a way to actively prevent them from enjoying the game, I'll have my opinion about it.
No sense in sending them salt, but I'll judge them quietly and I'm not ashamed of that.
Instead, I'll just send love to the next remarkable player I'm matched with or against. Particularly means a lot to killers, since some get called names all day.
Your problem should be with the devs, not the players. It’s not the players’ fault that the most efficient and smart way to play is to use dev-intended tactics that typically are not fun for the other side.
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On one hand, working with the killer is against the rules. On the other hand, so is the other survivor hiding and not repairing.
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All 3 of you broke the rules.
You refused to participate in normal gameplay and took the game hostage by hiding and not repairing.
The other survivor and killer teamed up.
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@Quizzy said:
I believe its more entitled to not expect criticisms over how you played throughout the match. Yes you can play how you want but as long as you're not being toxic or derogatory in endgame chat over the results, then its perfectly fine.
Terms like "sweaty"/"tryhard"/"touch grass"/etc are derogatory. That’s my point.
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@not_requested49 said:
How would that even work for killers with macros tho which make up most of the afk killer playerbase
There are methods to detect macros. And a few general guidelines would also work for non-macro AFK. For example, hasn’t moved more than 1 meter in X seconds. Something that even a single step moves you more than.