SmolBlob
SmolBlob
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It’s simultaneously hilarious and disappointing to see how eagerly people will out themselves.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Hook suiciding isn't the problem, just a symptom.
And adding a ton of debuffs to players who don't want to be in the game is pointless, because they'll just not play. It's pretty simple lol
People should not be able to bypass the penalty literally meant for quitting. Having a way to do so IS the problem.
If they don’t play, then either they’re AFK (which should get them kicked like it would in any other game anyways), sandbagging (which would get them banned if too obvious), or actually DC (which means they get the penalty they deserve).
Also, 1 single debuff example is "a ton" I guess now LMAO.
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Also no, something being unbalanced (according to you) does not justify DCing. The same way it does not justify DCing, let alone without the DC penalty, in any other multiplayer versus game just because the opponent is using a character/weapon/etc or on a map that heavily favors them or whatever else. Bring it up respectfully with the devs, but if you decide to queue up anyways knowing those things are in the game and that others might use them, that is 1000% on you.
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J-Flick was an unintended exploit and removed.
L-Flick was also removed, I think..?
Hug tech still exists currently, but BHVR has stated they plan to remove it eventually (which is stupid because it’s a fun gimmick that’s weaker than bump logic, but oh well).
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If you can’t beat a SWF, that is genuinely a skill issue.
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Solo queue needs communication improvements, but otherwise, if survivors can’t break a 3-gen, that is literally their fault. A 3-gen is a losing game of attrition for killer. Why? Because literally all it takes is Survivor 1 on Gen 1 and Survivor 2 on Gen 2. If killer chases Survivor 1, Survivor 2 progresses Gen 2, and vice-versa. If the others also help, it’s just a coffin in the nail for the 3-gen. Survivor 3 is on Gen 3, and Survivor 4 gets on whichever gen the killer chased a different survivor off of.
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Take a break then. It genuinely helps.
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People need to get over themselves. SWF doesn’t inherently mean good, and you can also use the fact they have communication against them by misleading them. It also makes them way more predictable than solo queue players who might do just about anything. Get better at playing against coordinated players, or don’t queue for killer. Or just accept you aren’t that good and accept that you’ll lose matches.
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No.
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Take a deep breath. Relax.
Camping and tunneling are strategies that have inherent counters built into them. If a killer is camping or tunneling, that means they are not pressuring gens or other survivors, who can punish the killer by getting gens done in the meantime. There are also perks meant to help with this, such as Deliverance, Off the Record, and so on.
Several survivor perks were nerfed because they were unhealthy design and could be used in situations they were not meant to be used in.
Nurse has already been nerfed several years ago as part of a mini-rework, and the reason she hasn’t been changed since is because her basekit is perfectly fine. Most players just do not know how to play versus her correctly.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306336#Comment_3306336
Oh for sure, there are lots of very good solo players. In the past, I've had very good runs of having very competent solo teammates.
And as I alluded to, quite often the teammates people are complaining about are better than they are. It's kind of like people whinging about console players, regardless of how good those players actually are.
Generally speaking, when trying to deflect blame they'll pick the most obvious differentiator, which in DBD is either that they're in solo, or on another platform. It's just convenient when trying to make someone else responsible for your own failure.
As far as Nurse goes, I do feel like once a Nurse player hits that tipping point from "baby nurse" to having a good feel for her mechanics, they have a distinct advantage over all other killers. She has a high skill floor, but once you reach it, you're a real problem for survs. A Nurse doesn't have to be Supaalf to be an issue.
You have it backwards. Nurse is what it should be. Directly rewards skill and outmindgaming the survivor, and not screwed over by dumb RNG. While all killers are viable in basically everything outside of comp, the majority are handicapped and need to go way above and beyond just to achieve the same result. Which is a problem with them, not Nurse. A high skilled killer player SHOULD be a problem for survivors. Just like how good survivors are a problem for killers.
A standard M1 on a long wall jungle gym will never ever have an even starting ground ever against a decent survivor. Likewise, a survivor against a M1 in a complete dead zone will also start way disadvantaged. Regardless of personal skill, the map RNG has played a tremendous factor in how anything will play out there.
Nurse can’t brute force a tile because she can’t just walk up to a survivor, so she has to win a mindgame to land said hit. But on the other hand, she also isn’t auto screwed over just because of a strong tile. It comes down exclusively to mindgaming, which is personal player skill.
It shouldn’t just be "Oh I got to this tile so I’m guaranteed safe for next 30+ seconds" or "This is a dead zone so I auto-go down and I can do nothing about it." The problem is the majority of people don’t know how to play against Nurse, and the game doesn’t give any help really in teaching how to do so.
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Go downstairs and get a bit closer.
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Pre-nerf Iron Will was unhealthy design. 100% volume reduction that lasted infinitely and was unconditional was stupid design.
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Ideally never, because it was an insanely bad idea that made more problems than it solved.
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I'd rather they rework hatch so the only smart strategic decision on the killer's part isn't to slug the third for up to 4 minutes. It also incentivizes survivors to hide and do nothing until the others die, which is against the rules too.
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@DudelPuma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306160#Comment_3306160
correct! I've already described that above, but if you were to play solo q and your mates are somewhere else instead and you're alone on the gen, it's just boring and very frustrating, what you describe only works in a swf because they coordinate can
So... a problem with solo queue not having ways to communicate. Not a problem with 3-gens spawning.
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@areyoukiddngme10 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306155#Comment_3306155
Wrong. I've DCd a total of 6 or 7 times in the last two weeks in dozens of hours of play time. Nice of you to just assume though. Most of the time I never have an issue but once in a while it just cuts for one minute then goes back.
Uh. 6-7 times in 2 weeks is a huge amount. If your internet is going out a bunch, take a break from playing. Or don't complain if you decide to queue up anyways for some reason.
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@DudelPuma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306154#Comment_3306154
I hope you're not serious xD please, dear dbd community, think for a moment then write, look at the 3rd picture, they made a gene and I've already decided to protect the 3 gens and hook them up (because they all helped life and cannot use fatigue perks)
there is no such thing as "break the 3 gens from the killer" because the killer decides to do so right at the beginning of the round or not, I hung a survivor right on the 3 gens, of course I'll never leave my 3 gens, what's up with them surivor done wrong now ? oh right if you mean you didn't turn on the gene in 10sec when spawening then it's your fault
please dbd community first think then write D:
A 3-gen is a losing game of attrition for the killer. Person A on Gen A, Person B on Gen B, Person C on Gen C. Killer chases, IDK, Person A. Person D gets on Gen A. The killer can't protect them all.
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The only way it can go up to 6 hours is if you disconnected a HUGE amount of times. I have absolutely zero sympathy for you. If your internet is going out that often and you still decided to queue up, that's you queueing up despite knowing your internet can and will probably go out again, despite knowing that will ruin the match for the other 4 players.
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It is on survivors to break 3-gens. Not breaking 3-gens is solely and exclusively the survivors' faults for not planning ahead and playing properly.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305957#Comment_3305957
And what does that have to do with playing Killers in Dead By Daylight? There are no teammates to disappoint.
You ragequitting still screws over the survivors who wanted to play out an actual game. Also means they lose their item add-ons/offerings are basically wasted/etc.
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Window blockers were added to prevent certain loops from being literal infinites. Camping is a strategy with an inherent downside of not pressuring any other survivor or generator.
Also, when will people realize the reason BHVR doesn’t do stupid mechanics like pausing or slowing the timer is because they’re exceedingly abusable, which is already why BHVR has considered and scrapped said ideas?
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This just proves the problem with hatch being bad design for both sides. It incentivizes survivors to hide and do nothing till everyone else dies, which is against the rules and can be bannable. And it incentivizes killer to slug out the third, because that’s the smartest strategy to get the fourth kill.
Rework hatch entirely.
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People need to stop equating lack of knowledge on how to play against a killer or bad matchmaking to something being unbalanced.
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@Jensen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305914#Comment_3305914
"then the goal of forcing them to play instead of quit was still achieved."
Why should that be the goal? The goal is that all players have fun within the match. They will just run into the killer 3 times. How i said its pretty mutch impossible (especally for a program) to detect the difference between a bad player and a player who suicides.
I mean he can also start to make gens, and fail every or nearly every skillcheck. He will find a way to quit the game as fast as possible, the only difference is how mutch dmg he will make the team in the meantime.
Why not just make surreindering players, play with other player who surrender? Than you (who never surrenders) will only play with other players who never or rarly surrender
Because they queued up, and them ragequitting because they’re too childish and entitled to handle a game that isn’t the way they want ruins it for all 4 other players.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304673#Comment_3304673
"I disagree with you, therefore you should not play this game"
Guess what, we BOTH bought the game, and your definition of "etiquette" is not a universal one that everyone agrees to. Maybe your definition of etiquette says that you shouldn't DC, but someone else's etiquette says that the killer should not facecamp, or pick Midwich+Startstruck+Nurse, etc, so from their perspective, the killer broke the etiquette first, and the survivor who DC'd only broke it in retaliation.
You'll probably reply something along the lines of "But tunneling/camping are fine strategies" well guess what, suiciding on hook is also a fine strategy, at least BHVR confirmed that it's not reportable.
That is not even remotely comparable, and the fact you tried is hilarious. One is quitting out to stop playing. The rest are continuing to play.
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Just for clarification, Oni is meant to be hard limited to 90° when flicking in Demon Fury mode. That said, it has been bugged for years, and with high DPI, you can push it up to hilariously high amounts like 270°.
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DBD community when satire:
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@Jensen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/359208/remove-the-ability-to-suicide-on-hook
I dont think this is a good idea. If somebody lost the will to play they will do it. Than they "accedently" will run into the killer 2 more times.
I think its not or just very hardly possible to the difference between a bad player and a suicidial player.
The solution is easy, make surrender possible without a walkaround and que surrendering player with surrendering player.
If they are too obvious about it, it can get them banned from the game rather than just a queue ban. And if they’re pretending to play at a normal-enough level to avoid said ban, then the goal of forcing them to play instead of quit was still achieved.
Hook suicide mechanic is outdated and used to DC while avoiding the penalty for DCing 99% of the time.
A surrender mechanic with heavy restrictions is fine, but hook suicide still should be removed for that reason.
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@entertainment720 said:
Thank you for sharing your suggestions on this topic!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305114#Comment_3305114
You can report for AFK under Unsportsmanlike Conduct, as it's not normal gameplay.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304714#Comment_3304714
It's nearly impossible to apply consequences to suiciding on hook the same as DCs due to factors such as lag impacting struggle attempts, failed Kobes, etc.
All that to say, we appreciate the frustration that is being experienced and feedback is vital to the game health.
Which is why the hook should be reworked so suiciding on the hook isn’t possible in the first place. Rework self-unhook attempts so they can’t be used to force second stage on yourself, and remove struggle skillchecks affecting time left, so they can’t be used to die. The feeling of tension on struggle phase is outdated and barely matters in comparison to people having a loophole to ragequit but dodging the penalty.
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@entertainment720 said:
Thank you for sharing your suggestions on this topic!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305114#Comment_3305114
You can report for AFK under Unsportsmanlike Conduct, as it's not normal gameplay.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304714#Comment_3304714
It's nearly impossible to apply consequences to suiciding on hook the same as DCs due to factors such as lag impacting struggle attempts, failed Kobes, etc.
All that to say, we appreciate the frustration that is being experienced and feedback is vital to the game health.
Which is why the hook should be reworked so suiciding on the hook isn’t possible in the first place outside of a situation for giving hatch (when only 1 survivor or less is standing).
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Nurse doesn't need changes to her basekit.
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It's sad to see how many people will defend a loophole to quit but without taking the penalty.
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@Erenior said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305194#Comment_3305194
Your whole comment is just wrong.
First it is not a skill issue. If e.g. a nurse and evenly skilled survivors play against each other (to be exact here: the nurse player knows how to use her power and not some first time pick VS evenly inexperienced survivors) nurse will win hands down.
Blight is a bit behind nurse in terms of raw pressure.
Second I never stated that I assume every nurse or blight player as good. I wonder why you made that up.
Besides that both killers are not that easy compared to someone like trapper for example, that's absolutely true. But if you run into a good nurse... There is just not that much you can do.
Being equally skilled means knowing how to play against Nurse to the same degree the Nurse knows to play against survivors. Get better.
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@TealJade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305211#Comment_3305211
Right now they are reviewing every single case too.
I disagree with your point. If people know that bleeding survs to death to troll is punishable, then less people would do it for 'fun'.
Okay, since you don’t get it.
Is the downed survivor on a pallet/the only path to a hook is through a pallet? Then the report is discarded, because killer has no reason to eat a potential Power Struggle.
Is the downed survivor unable to be found? Then the report is discarded, because killer literally can’t find them anyways.
Is the downed survivor in a place where the killer can’t reach a hook? The report is discarded, because the killer has no reason to let them wiggle off for free.
So on and so forth. And no, you’re wrong, because slugging to death isn’t against the rules. This means they now have to start reviewing an entire new category of reports where every single one needs METICULOUS individual review. And a video also will not be enough to definitively prove everything in some cases. You can’t prove whether the killer just isn’t looking or if they can’t find you. You would have to turn the camera around to show hooks in close enough distance to reach to prove the hooks distance. So on and so forth.
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@TealJade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305205#Comment_3305205
So why is it not against the rules? Why isnt this behaviour considered griefing and trolling and should be punished?
Like you said, there is a significant amount of killers who do this, when bleeding out to death isnt neccessary, it only makes the community even more toxic.
Because BHVR would have to review every single case individually which is way too time-consuming and impractical for something that has legitimate use as a strategy?
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305194#Comment_3305194
Part of it isn’t a skill issue and OP never said all blights and nurse players are “super good”. If you read the title you’d know they clearly stated if the player was decent at the killer.
One part is skill issue. Another part is matchmaking. The last part is solo queue lack of information. That's it.
Also, the initial claim is blatantly false regardless. "doesnt matter how good you play. in the end its a fight you cant win." People do just fine versus good Nurse or Blight players if they're equally good, even in solo.
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@willymancer69 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305120#Comment_3305120
Respectfully, I think there is a way to flag self-killing, airing on the side of false negatives, too. The "trigger" could be several events in short succession (ex. on first hook, going from hooked to dead on hook in 30s and within the first 3 minutes of the game).
There has so be some solution beyond simply "its not possible". That feels so discouraging to hear. Other games have solutions because this is a known player behavior
Or just not having a way to self-kill in the first place.
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Skill issue. Also you have this weird misconception every Nurse/Blight player is super good.
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Only in a community as immature and entitled as this can you find people unironically defending a loophole to ragequit without getting the penalty for quitting.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305171#Comment_3305171
So you rather play a game with people pretending to play "normally", which means the game is already over and you are wasting your time and effort rather than just finish the game as quickly as possible and move on with another game with people actually wanting to play?
Sorry, but these are the kind of mindsets that ruin online games
Yes, people should absolutely be forced to play out a game they queued up for. Not mature enough to play out a game that doesn’t go the way you want? Don’t queue up. Also, you act like I’m saying to somehow magically prevent them from quitting. They can quit. It’s just then they get the penalty they absolutely deserve for quitting.
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If all living survivors are downed or hooked, a 60 second or so timer should start. If a survivor self-recovers or self-unhooks, the timer is removed. If the timer runs out, all survivors are killed on the spot.
This would save time for both sides. Stops killer from having to search for survivors that crawled off into Narnia, or slug to death survivors that intentionally crawled somewhere they couldn’t be hooked. Stops survivors from having to wait out the bleed out timer doing nothing.
60s timer gives time for people that have stuff like Unbreakable or to try self-unhooking or whatever. If it’s been 60s and no one’s managed to turn the situation around, it’s probably game over anyways.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305165#Comment_3305165
People will find another way to do so, like I said
How about fixing the root of the problem instead?
The only other options they have are AFK (which should get them kicked and DC’d anyways), sandbagging too obviously (which gets them banned from the game entirely instead of just queue), or sandbagging less obviously, at which point they’d have to play enough to pass as someone actually trying, even if bad at it. At which point, the goal of forcing them to play instead of quit has succeeded. People sandbag in other games too. That isn’t an excuse to have a way to quit without getting penalty.
The root of the problem is immaturity and entitlement. End of story.
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@Rudjohns said:
People will still find a way to" ruin" the game; Nothing will work unless they balance the game correctly
The point is getting rid of a loophole that lets people ragequit without getting the penalty for quitting.
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It’s hilarious how willing people are to tell on themselves about their immaturity and entitlement.
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@ImNotBobDylan said:
Unfortunately it is not a problem that can be easily fixed, survivors DC'ing is just the symptom of a much deeper problem, not the root cause.
I do not advocate for people DC'ing/suiciding on hook. But you cannot put all the blame on people who DC.
A few days ago my first DBD game was against a killer who picked Midwich offering. Within 30 seconds of the match, you can guess it, I hear the Nurse sound, baby Meg gets downed and then we all get exposed from Starstruck. Just after getting exposed, I immediately thought "This is ridiculous, I should DC" and at the exact same time one of my teammates DC'd in front of me. I decided to stay, needless to say we got spanked within minutes, the Nurse of course did not give hatch and after the game I saw her profile with 2000+ hours and lots of toxic comments implying she was only playing Nurse on Midwich.
Imagine coming back from work and expecting to play a chill game, and this is what you get, people would rather not play. I don't even think Nurse is OP (at all), but when the game starts like this you can tell within seconds that you're going to have a very unenjoyable match. Add stupid teammates to the equation, a dysfunctioning MMR, repeated loss streaks, unhealthy playstyles (facecamping etc.) and toxic end game chat, yes I know people will come here and proudly say "I never disconnect, it's poor sport etc.", but showing the world how moralish you are is not going to address the problem: DBD is a game where the worst possible unfun situations can happen out of any video game I've played.
A game is supposed to be somewhat fun, but if 5 people play and within the first 30 sec of the match already 4 of them have the impression that they are wasting their time, but the game forces them to stay, then something is severely wrong with the game itself, and of course people will DC no matter the penalty.
A good start to fix the problem would be to fix MMR so that you truly have 50% chance of winning. Getting 10+ loss streak in a row puts everyone in a very defeatist mindset that is not healthy in a game where you can suicide on hook.
Yes, we absolutely can put all the blame on the people that DC. It is literally exclusively and solely a problem with their maturity. If they can't handle going against certain parts of this game, they should not queue up. In fact, stick to single player games entirely, if they don't care about ruining the game for everyone else the second the game isn't the way they want.
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Simple. Because she's perfectly fine, with the exception of 3 blink/range.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304589#Comment_3304589
1. If they are trying to get out of the game being broken isnt a debuff.
2. They designed the mechanic so you can get out of the game because sometimes there is no point in continuing or when you are being griefed by teammates, while missing skill checks does makes you die faster, you only instantly die if you dont try to hit them at all.
3. It very much is if I run the killer for a full minute and then spend a full minute on hook and dont get rescued and no gens get completed, the game is basically over and we are gonna lose and there really isnt any reason for me to sit on hook for another minute. Bad teamates are one of the most legitimate reasons to let yourself go on hook.
4. At 1 remaining there doesnt need to be a give up option, at that point if you are hooked your dead, at 2 active is where you need it to make hatch spawn.
5. Again, there is a point in the match where there is no point in continuing, and both sides should have a concede option.
- The only way for them to get out of the game without getting a penalty would be to get re-hooked. And if they make it too obvious they're throwing, they can get banned from the game instead of just a queue ban. Same with sandbagging teammates too obviously. If they play enough to be at a typical "bad solo queue player" level, then the goal of forcing them to play it out instead of quitting was still achieved.
- Wrong. The hook suicide mechanic existed to try to prevent people from staying to sandbag instead, which was a flawed reasoning in the first place. Whether someone ragequits, suicides on hook, AFKs, or sandbags, the match is ruined regardless. Suiciding on hook is exclusively a loophole for quitting but without getting the penalty for quitting. Which is stupid and dumb design that defeats the point of said DC penalty.
- Even if hook suicide was removed, all you'd have to do is wait around 2 minutes. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't queue up in the first place. And if your teammates are ignoring you, you could just watch YouTube or something while you wait anyways.
- I said 1 ACTIVE remaining, using your own terminology. If there's more than 1 person still standing (injured/healthy), then they can't get hatch regardless. If everyone else including you is downed/hooked/dead except for 1 person, then that 1 person has a chance to get hatch when the remaining downed/hooked people die. Which is why it doesn't make sense to be any higher than 1.
- I'm fine with a concede option. But the current iteration where people can just DC without getting the penalty is unreasonable and unhealthy design.
@willymancer69 said:
I wish I could upvote this topic more than once. People self-killing on hook and how rampant its gotten made me leave the game for half a year this summer. I just got back, and its somehow worse. It's how folks get around DCing; because of this, it should be treated in the same wave of punishment rampup.
It's the biggest scourge in this game.
@Entitled_survivor said:
Nop,,,you cannot force people staying in a game they no longer wanna be in,,,and even if that's not enough you need to realize some games when killer snowballs hard are unwinnable and become a hook trading simulator that serves no purpose other than gettin consolation points,,people would much rather take the L and go next
You remove the ability for them to suicide on hook which means they can no longer ragequit but bypass the penalty for quitting. You kick and give AFK players the DC penalty. And you ban people that sandbag too obviously. So their options are to either take the DC penalty, or to play at enough of a level it still passes as normal play (even if not playing well).
You can't force people to stay. But you can force them to either play it out, or take the DC penalty. Which absolutely should be the norm. If you can't handle playing out a losing game, don't queue up for multiplayer versus games ever.
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I don’t think either need nerfs at all, with the exception of range/3 blink addon.
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The problem with hatch is it incentivizing survivors to break the rules by taking the game hostage and making the smartest gameplay decision for killer one that is unfun for survivor.