ImNotBobDylan
ImNotBobDylan
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"but you know, people here look whatever they want, they see a high killrate on sadako but don't see a very low killrate on nurse, i swear by this point maybe people should make a post about nerfing pig or ghostface clearly they are too strong for "casual players" where ever they are"
Nurse killrate is not low, it's 61% at high MMR. I don't pretend Nurse is OP, but at least have the honesty to understand the problem. The 2 most common nerf requests, are 1) to make blink a special attack to prevent broken combination with Starstruck on Midwich and 2) to nerf range addon. Both of these nerfs are specifically to nerf her at high MMR, so why are you acting like it's such a big thing when most casual Nurse players won't even realize it. Anyway. The "nerf Nurse" threads are targeted for high MMR, and the killrate stats support it. Point invalidated.
Now, about Sadako's killrate, she has a small silhouette and can become sporadically invisible, as a result I find it especially hard to react to her in tiles that would normally be safe. On top of it my guess is that the undetectable helps her getting free M1's against uncoordinated solo. I think you play only Sadako, so you wouldn't know that, you only see that some survivors play better than you and think it's because your killer is weak, you don't even realize the amount of effort they need to invest just to play a regular mindgame against her. Let's be honest here how often have you played AS SURVIVOR against Sadako? If yes, do you even have a >50% winrate against her?
This forum is reaching top level of ridicule, the game has never been as easy for killers as it is now, and yet it seems like people will never stop asking for more nonsensical buffs. I can only laugh imagining BHVR see that the top thread is to buff the killer that already has a 61% winrate, lol.
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OP can you record yourself playing and getting, idk, a 5 win streak? I'm curious to see your gameplay.
I did a 36 win streak my first time playing Nurse, since survivor is so easy and Nurse so bad, you shouldn't have trouble achieving 1/6th of that, right?
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287489#Comment_3287489
It sounds like a lot, especially since you're new but trust me you reach a level where its the norm that people know how to deal with it. Its not that hard. Also this is just showing that MMR is doing its job of separating the newer and experienced players
I've been playing for 5 years, have almost 5.3k hours in the game and the majority of that is on killer. First main was Trapper back in 2018 where he wasn't as map dependent because grass was a lot thicker and there were less indoor maps. There was only Lery's at this point (which had grass before) and even then he also had WAY more spots that he could shove a trap into the floor making it near invisible, or actually invisible. Even then, he was still regarded as weak.
I also see an issue of when you are talking about viability, you're not looking at the top level. When measuring the viability of something you want to do so at the top level and its max potential. Now when seeing a Trapper at his max potential against Survivors at their max potential, thats when you can see he starts to fall short. You won't verse that all the time in normal pub games, hell I do randomizers all the time and still manage to 4k. But the off times where I run into a good team on an unfortunate map, I have a VERY little chance of actually winning
I'm not new, I have around 800 hours, mostly survivor. I'm just "new" on Trapper (30 hours is not new). I know 5k hours is a lot, as I grinded that on a few other games, but you have to realize that 20-30 hours is ALSO a god damn lot, that's about an hour spent per map in the game. In any case that should be far more than enough for the MMR to climb high, as I've 4k'd every game since I played him (excluding hatch and 2 losses on Eyrie). My queue can be 5 min + which defintiely was not the case when I played him at the beginning.
The reality is, the survivors you mention might exist, but they are a minuscule part of the playerbase.
Regarding Trapper being a poor killer at high MMR, Otz got a 50 winstreak with Trapper and no add-on, and that was before the DH nerf which I suppose has been a massive buff for Trapper since then. In 50 games surely he must have fought some of the mighty survivors you mention. And before you say that it's because Otz is an insane player, that's true but even I could probably replicate this streak, at least 20-30 with the Iri stone should be ez pz (if we exclude Eyrie which that I agree with you is an absolute nightmare).
There is no other game that I know of where one could achieve such a high winstreak, so either we agree that Trapper is a very good killer as I said (in any case he's not a bad killer that's for sure), or we agree that MMR gives killer mains easy wins all the time - which is roughly equivalent.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287342#Comment_3287342
The chances of getting an actual good 3 gen on Gideon are EXTREMELY low, and if the Survivors know what you're trying to do they're going to try to break that 3 gen as soon as possible. You also have the fact that there is literally nothing covering up your traps making them VERY easy to spot.
Now one thing I didn't see before is you using Iri Stone. Which every one knows Trapper actually becomes pretty decent. Its just if were now taking add ons in consideration he still falls a bit short compared to the majority of killers. That being said, all killers with their best add ons are all pretty good
Again what do you mean by "Survivors who know what you're trying to do" ?
Do you mean that if I face a team of 4 players who have 2k hours and know all the trap spots, know which pallets are unsafe against Trapper, know how not to get 3-gen'd on Gideon, and know how to play against Iri stone, then maybe I could lose? Imagine the effort for survivors needed to learn how to counter ALL the 30 killers to that level, just in case they face what is supposedly the weakest killer.
My experience so far in 20-30 hours is that there was exactly ZERO instance where the matchmaking was able to find 4 players that follow this definition of "know what you're trying to do". I can count on one hand the number of survivors that knew this, but there was always 1 weaker survivor that would throw the game for eveyrone else. And even the good ones were eventually caught off guard by the Iri stone.
That Gideon "makes the traps very easy to spot" sounds like a gimmick tbh. Usually you hide the trap behind a pallet and by the time survivors see it it's too late. Yeah there are some nasty spots on other maps but I'd still 100% pick a map like Gideon or RPD over most grass maps. Survivors don't fall in traps because they can't see them, they get trapped because you lead them into them.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287226#Comment_3287226
Yes, you are going up against babies. They may all be running Dead Hard but other than that and CoH thats pretty much the only meta perks they got. If anything just looking at this set up it looks like they were just dicking around and wanted to go more for flashy saves and just prioritized a good time over actually escaping.
No good team who is actually trying is going down to a Trapper on Gideon, Im sorry but thays just how it is
Gideon is a damn good map for Trapper, the underground floor is full of extremely unsafe zones which you can create with only a few well placed traps. I spend a few minutes collecting & placing traps then I don't even have to do anything most of the time, just chase the survivor and they end up cornered. There are at least 2 trap spots on this map which regularly give me 4+ hooks per game. Eg. the bathroom, if survivors don't get out of it in time, I can body block the entrance and trap it, guaranteeing a down on everyone inside. This is the obvious one but there are many other spots like this.
I have not lost a single game on this map. Even in close games I end up with a perfect 3-gen almost every time, always in the underground. Survivors could have infinite amount of hook stages and they would still never win.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286548#Comment_3286548
Against most players, all killers are viable
against sentient survivors? yeah nah
What do you call "sentient survivors"? Do you consider yourself a sentient survivor? I'm pretty sure if I matched you or anybody else in solo queue I would beat you with Trapper easily.
This is a match I just played:
(I gave hatch to Nea)
Notice the Gideon map offering, toolbox with BNP, medkit with syringe, and literally every survivor running DH. Compare with my perks.
Are those survivor babies?
Because I 4k'd easily, despite going for 12 hooks. I also 4k'd the next game, and the next 10+ ones.
And I'm not a god Trapper. I played him for ~30 hours.
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Trapper is an easy 4K against most players. People who honestly believe that he's a bad killer are just incompetent.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280828#Comment_3280828
Still an exaggeration. If I could simply tunnel 1 person, and get a 4k like that every time, why isn't that happening in my matches, either as killer or survivor? Once survivors see what's happening and have any level of awareness of what's happening, they rush gens and 3-4 get out. The matches where a DC/kill self on hook happen, isn't due to tunneling, it's due to the DC.
Watch tournaments. Almost every killer does it, even against the most organized SWFs. See eg. below the Grand Finals of Swish's 2 where already at Game 1 the killer was not only tunneling but also basement camping at 4 gens (timestamped at 6:30).
https://youtu.be/fXlLWcQLufo?t=398Game 1: Nea gets tunneled + facecamped. 4K (3 hooks out of first 4)
Game 2: Jake gets tunneled. 4K (3 hooks in a row)
Game 3 : No tunneling. 2K.
Game 4 : No tunneling. 0K.
Game 5: Nancy gets tunneled. 4K (3 hooks in a row)
Game 6: Claudette gets tunneled. 4K (3 hooks in a row)
Notice a pattern. Do you still think tunneling is a low MMR thing?
I watched the first 4 hours. Literally every single match where the killer won, began with one survivor getting hardcore tunneled and often killed at 3-4 gens. I say hardcore because for most of these matches the first survivor downed by the killer would get hooked 3 times in a row without anybody else getting hooked ONCE.
That was despite DS, which wasn't nerfed back then, and despite the survivors trying to body block, using For the People etc. The situation has not improved since then as far as I have seen.
Regarding public games, don't know about you, but I can guarantee a 4k in 90% of my games by camping+tunneling, yes. As you said, good survivors will try to prevent it by eg. hiding the tunneled survivor or bodyblocking. But it doesn't mean it's not the best strategy.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279968#Comment_3279968
Not making excuses, just clarifying, and I'm on console so I dont do it and couldnt do it anyways.
They are more farming shards and rift xp rather than bloodpoints, and they probably run the script while they are sleeping/at work so its not that they never play the game. The higher end cosmetics are ridiculously overpriced at over 25k shards that is a crapload of grinding, and I can understand why it happens, even though in an ideal world it wouldnt.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279340#Comment_3279340
You cant just punish a killer for getting 0 hook 0 kill games, that is way too broad of a scenario. Matchmaking is completely janky alot of the times, I have had plenty of games where I get matched against survivor way outside my level and will finish a match with no hooks because after playing the first half and losing most gens and getting denied hooks, I'll give up and afk and wait for the match to be over because that is a more efficient use of my time.
Not a single hook in the entire game? You can't be serious. I've never seen that happen, even bully SWFs get hooked at some point. And still the only penalty I suggest is that if you get 0 hooks then you get no XP. That is not a serious penalty considering it happens like once in a million games. Let alone the chance of getting 0 hooks multiple times in a row.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279413#Comment_3279413
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279478#Comment_3279478
Can you show me footage of those 36 games to see how the survivors you went againts played and what killer you used?
Just because playing survivor is easier doesn't mean you dont have to get good if you wanna survive
I recorded the streak here:
Share your videos with friends, family and the worldThat was a while ago, since then I also got 10+ winstreaks with each of these killers: Trickster, Huntress, Trapper, Myers, Ghostface, (Nurse)
(I'm much better at killer now so I'll probably re-record a new streak at some point. Looking back at this gameplay now is embarassing.)
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The role that has 39% winrate is the easy role? Lmao.
When I play killer I win 90% of my games. I've had a 36 win streak and I'm not a god at killer, far from it. I'd like to see you do the same as survivor. Would you mind sharing some of your gameplay? Since survivor is so easy for you, it shouldn't be a huge deal.
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I doubt BHVR is aware, and if they are then they clearly don't care, these bots have been there since the beginning of the game. The script they use is literally available on github, it's a super dumb script, basically it just moves the mouse to where the "Ready" button is and clicks it every 10 seconds. That way it can permanently requeue. So in-game you will see the bot do random attacks every 10 sec, in reality it is not even trying to play, just trying to navigate the menu.
This script is literally 30 lines of basic Python code and yet cannot seemingly be detected by a multi-million dollar company, lol... They could put a simple check where if a killer has 0 hooks 0 kills for a game, then he's been farming and should at least not get xp/MMR for that game. If he does it multiple times then he should get auto-banned. But instead, BHVR asks individual players to report them, so that after you have wasted 10 min doing gens, you can also waste 5 minutes filing a report that will never be read. There are farmer accounts with thousands of hours doing this, streamers often meet them when doing the "Hardcore Survivor" series, they report them, and then nothing happens.
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Yes, it's "bugged" in the sense that you can indeed press Dead Hard in time on your screen and still end up downed. This is not just you, pretty much every survivor streamer that I know of has complained about it, and I have multiple clips of them getting downed with frame-by-frame analysis showing that they pressed it in time (sometimes even with very fast reaction).
One of the devs (Peanits) has said it's due to latency and that nothing more can be done. Basically, on your screen you have not yet taken the hit and just pressed Dead Hard in time, but due to ping, the killer has already downed you on their screen. This means that there is a conflict between the information that has been presented to both of your screens, and this information needs to be cancelled for one of you so that you can keep playing the same game - there's no ideal solution here, one necessarily will win and one will lose. If the killer wins, you end up downed even though you have seen the Dead Hard animation on your screen. If the survivor wins, the killer will see you getting downed then suddenly getting up and running again as if nothing happened, which is equally weird.
I am very sceptical that nothing can be improved though. The approach they have taken, is that the server decides who wins based on the actual real world time of when the actions happened. But to me it seems extremely backwards and unfair in this case. While normally you'd expect the server to be a fair middle ground between survivor and killer, the reality is that Dead Hard is triggered by the survivor in reaction to the killer, not the other way around, so it should be survivor's screen -sided. In particular, the way it is now, if the killer has high enough ping, you have literally 0 possibility to trigger DH in reaction.
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Well to a larger extent OP has a point, most of the survivors I've seen BM usually do it to the nicest killers, and I say that as a survivor main. When I was playing killer, I would even seen some survivors tbag me after I literally gave them hatch, multiple times. I usually give 0 ######### about it and still give hatch to most survivors, these guys are viewed as losers by killers AND survivors.
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Yeah I don't think it's exagerated to say that when someones finds a key/map in a chest it is 99.99% of the time not the item that they wanted.
I'd go one step ahead and say that the existence of these items alone is the main reason why Plunderer's instinct sucks. They are so useless that if you'd remove them from chest it would actually be a pretty significant buff to survivors, especially at lower tiers.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269861#Comment_3269861
I know HOW it works and can be baited, but that doesn't make it a 'skilled' perk. Seriously, the definition of 'skilled' is not 'wait until person ACTUALLY swings if the connection is good' or 'the threat of pressing a button means I can get to something safe'.
"Spot the correct animation change" does not skill make.
The definition of a skillful interaction is that it depends on one or both players skill. Let's evaluate which scenario is more skillful.
Scenario 1: Dead Hard exists:
- Killer must predict whether the survivor will DH now or not
- Survivor must mindgame the killer into thinking they are going to DH now.
Either party can win as a result. A good player will, on average, win the interaction more often.
Scenario 2: Dead Hard does not exist
- Killer presses M1, survivor dead
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269787#Comment_3269787
... requires skill to use? Playing with a good connection, I've seen a surprising amount of reaction-based DH since I started playing again. I don't think that counts as much skill. It's like easy mode rhythm gaming.
If you're a killer with good ping and who swings easily, then yeah you'll get screwed by DH a lot, but from the survivor's perspective, you're the only killer that allowed it maybe in their last 5 games. As I advised to the other poster, please try it on survivor's end too and you'll realize the perk is WAY more frustrating as survivor currently. Not only that but after you have played with DH you'll know how to counter it (as is the case with most things in this game). You'll also realize that the perk is straight up broken when the killer has high ping you can't make it work once, because by the time you see their lunge it's already too late.
As OP showed in 1st clip, reactive DH can simply be baited, if you get hit by this then that's totally on you. Once you know the maps & tiles you won't fall for it anymore. The much better case where DH is arguably strong is when used at vaults and pallets (like in OP's 2nd clip), but this requires way more effort to do than it looks; and can be countered with killer mindgames (in 2nd clip, Otz got mindgamed twice, it's not DH's fault, this is a 100% skillful interaction).
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269787#Comment_3269787
"You claim DH is OP?"
Actually I didn't. I just said it was the most annoying survivor perk in the game. Though, to answer your question, I and most streamers consider DH a top tier perk.
"Then play with it and prove it's OP, it shouldn't be very hard since you pretend DH is "free" right?"
No need for me to play survivor to prove my point. I claimed that DH was an annoying perk. This is something that you will only know from playing killer.
"Because, if you're only here to relay Otzdarva's quotes, then I'd rather discuss with Otzdarva or wait for his next video about how DH is OP, rather than have someone quote 30 sec out of context."
I've been watching Otz for a long time and he very frequently voices his hate for Dead Hard. This isn't just a one-time situation where he is mad. Here's a more detailed explanation of why he hates it https://clips.twitch.tv/CloudyUgliestChickenSquadGoals-ih6QsWm5I2w7X-cE.
"In case you didn't know, the last time Otz discussed the survivor meta perks, he even rated Sprint Burst higher than DH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1us6aSJSk"
False. That video was released near the DH rework when people didn't have much experience with it. His current opinion is that DH is the strongest exhaustion perk. See https://youtu.be/QEA7Pc8_NsA?t=1891. You can also watch that section for Otz's opinion on the strength of the perk since you wanted that.
So you're admitting Otz was wrong on DH, and at the same time totally believing him when he talks about the exact same perk now...? Who tells you he won't change his mind in 2 months? Speaking about Otz, since you think he is a reliable data point to decide balance, his killrate has been 76% since the June patch, does that sound balanced to you? Can you explain why when he's playing as a survivor he escapes far less than <50% ? Can you explain why almost no survivor streamer can reliably get >50% escape, even the ones with 4000 hours, despite DH being so free and easy to get value with?
I agree with you that the perk is annoying. Especially against high ping killers. But you and Otz never play with this perk so you can't realize it is WAY more annoying to use on the survivor side. Watch survivor streamers for a while. They miss most of their DH, once in a whilethey get a baby killer and that one ends up on Youtube, but most of the real games, they die without the perk proc'ing and then they spend the whole game complaining about ping. If DH was OP, then the killrates would not be at 61%, and killer mains wouldn't be able to get 10+ win streaks against survivors who use it, and I'm not even talking about Otz and popular streamers, I've reached 36 myself (all 4K, recorded) and almost every friend of mine has reached 10+.
Yes, DH is still the best exhaustion perk, but that does not tell us much, since you are almost forced to use an exhaustion perk in a survivor build, and you cannot use more than one at the same time, so basically, DH wins by default, if DH is 1% better than SB, then DH should always have 100% pickrate and SB 0%. Then when you make DH slightly less good than SB, suddenly SB will get 100%.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269757#Comment_3269757
It is free. The survivor just doesn't have to press Dead Hard early and the killer is forced to wait out the DH, which wastes their time for free.
"Yeah please share your clips of insane clutch DHs, I'd be curious. You're going to share your own clips right? Oh never mind you won't, because you've never played with the perk, you've only seen it on Youtube."
I don't know what your point is here. What's the purpose of me sharing clips of clutch DHs?
The point is to make sure you're not full of bs and actually play both sides of the perk before claiming it is unbalanced. You claim DH is OP? Then play with it and prove it's OP, it shouldn't be very hard since you pretend DH is "free" right? Because, if you're only here to relay Otzdarva's quotes, then I'd rather discuss with Otzdarva or wait for his next video about how DH is OP, rather than have someone quote 30 sec out of context. In case you didn't know, the last time Otz discussed the survivor meta perks, he even rated Sprint Burst higher than DH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1us6aSJSk
So to me it looks like you're only quoting 20 sec of Otz's random survivor complaint - while he was probably on his 59th winstreak and still got 4K along the way - and concluding that because a top 5% MMR killer sometimes loses to DH then that must be the reason why you're losing to DH too.
DH requires skill to use and the fact you can't even recognize this shows that you haven't played with the perk at all. The game has never been as easy for killer as it is now, especially when broken s*it like NOED and DMS stil exist that give more undeserved wins than all the DHs in the world (at least, for 95% of the playerbase). DH right now is incredibly frustrating to use on the survivor side, especially against high ping killers, so if BHVR wants to address the perk I'd rather have them look into that.
Wasting 2 sec of killer time at the cost of a perk is ridiculously not worth it. By your own logic then Sprint Burst and Head On should be way more OP.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269676#Comment_3269676
The main point of discussion here is that Dead Hard is annoying. It being strong is a different topic. Though, if you want a scenario where Dead Hard buys a lot of time, I could probably find a clip where Dead Hard procs and extends the chase for a minute.
Secondly, you are forgetting that you have to wait out Dead Hard for most chases, so you need to add up the time wasted from all of the chases rather than a single chase. Say Dead Hard wastes 3 seconds per chase and you take 10 chases, that's 30 seconds of time wasted every match for free.
It's not for free. Both the killer and the survivor have to use their brain. If the survivor is incompetent then he'll get nothing out of DH. I play both with AND against DH all the time and the perk is close to balanced. That is, balanced if the killer has decent ping, because if the killer is VPN'ing then DH is useless, as BHVR for some reason thinks it's a good idea to have a 0.5 sec reaction-based ability be server-sided.
Yeah please share your clips of insane clutch DHs, I'd be curious. You're going to share your own clips right? Oh never mind you won't, because you've never played with the perk, you've only seen it on Youtube.
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Wow so much "value" gained from DH, he got downed 2 sec later thanks to it. BHVR pls nerf!!!
(EDIT: OP sneakily edited his post! initially had only the 1st clip)
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Yeah this is ridiculous, people do this to farm ez shards while ruining low Elo games, BHVR doesn't give a f*** about it even though it would be easy to detect.
Everybody knows about these bots, I'm pretty sure there are thousands of them, you check their profile they basically play 24/7, you report them, and then nothing happens.
It started becoming so rampant that even the hardcore survivors series got impacted by it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKwkdsgINccIn one single day Aaron played against 3 bots
I wouldn't be surprised if the extent of this was such that it would impact the overall killrate stats by 1-2 %.
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You are absolutely not alone.
Alby is a 4000-hour DBD streamer, plays all the time in SWF bully squads. Presumably high MMR right?
Look at the kind of teammates he gets (stream from literally days ago):
https://clips.twitch.tv/DifferentHonorableScallionNerfRedBlaster-AYBNWKd35Ng8JfNXImagine how lenient the matchmaking must be to allow this. Throughout the game, this Jake kept doing nonsense, he was so clueless that when the killer gave him escape for free, he didn't understand and died to the entity.
Imagine, in the same game, you can get a SWF bully duo, who spend 10 minutes running the killer and flashlight saving, and somebody who cannot escape while the killer is AFK.
This is not an isolated case. Watch the VOD. The game before, he had a Bill with default cosmetics and 2 yellow perks. Another game before, killer was a Ghostface with 2 yellow perks. Angrypug, another streamer, is at 1800-2000 MMR (his MMR was revealed by hackers) and also gets teammates like this all the time. The worst part is that their queues are almost instant, so the matchmaking probably believes that the game is balanced.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234812#Comment_3234812
Again, you're assuming that MMR goes up or down the same amount every match but that's not the case. It's quite possible, for example, that the average killer MMR is, say, 1100 and the average survivor MMR is 900 and because of that when survivors die they lose less points than they gain when they escape, balancing out them escaping a bit less often than they die. There's no particular reason to think that killers and survivors have the save exact average MMR value.
Did you read my post? That's exactly what I'm saying.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234599#Comment_3234599
It does apply for survivors too, and you should expect high MMR survivors to have higher than normal escape rates compared to average MMR survivors for exactly the same reason. It's very possible for high MMR survivors to have an above 50% escape rate and high MMR killers to also have an above 50% kill rate, they're not mutually exclusive since they don't only play against each other.
Also FYI MMR doesn't count hatch escapes, and it adjusts MMR by smaller amounts for the second and third kill than the first since after one survivor is already killed it raises the chances of the others also being killed.
The issue is that the killrate of 60% is averaged across ALL skills, it's not just the top 5% who have >50% winrate. Thus, we are speaking of a massive part of the killer playerbase having a MMR too high for the matchmaking to be balanced, likely more than 50% of killer players. This to me is equivalent to say that MMR doesn't work (maybe it works mathematically, but the whole purpose is flawed, basically it means that as a killer if you're just in the top 50% the MMR already thinks you're a god that cannot be matched with average survivors).
Re: hatch. Say that ~10% of survivors manage to escape through hatch in a normal game. Then as a killer you would need a 45% killrate to stay at steady MMR (45% wins, 45% losses. 10% draws). So the natural killrate of the game should be 45%, that is what MMR tries to achieve. Since the observed killrate is 60%, it means the actual deviation towards the normal result is 15% not just 10%, making the stat even more abnormal.
This flawed MMR distribution implies that MMR must make some compromise to still give you matches otherwise you'll never be able to play, likely this trade-off is your current queue time. Among all the problems this implies, one is that if you want easy matches you can simply dodge any match where you have too fast queue times, because it means the MMR has been able to find opponents that will give you a challenge, in contrary if you wait 10 minutes for a match it will likely be a stomp as MMR has given up by that time.
And actually, I think this is exactly what happens, in particular I had this 10 min queue for killer a while ago, then this match happened:
mmr.png -
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233982#Comment_3233982
MMR isn't supposed to bring a high skill player to 50% in all matches. It's supposed to bring them to 50% against opponents of equal MMR. But high MMR players also go against a lot of lower rated players and in those matches MMR goes down a lot for the higher rated player if the underdog wins and up only a little if the underdog loses. Ideally the ratio ends up being that the handful of times you lose against weaker players balance with the more frequent times you beat weaker players.
So it's very possible for example for high rated players to have a very high win rate and still have a stable MMR because they spend a lot of time in matches against weaker opponents and it takes more wins to gain MMR than it does losses to lose it.
The thing you describe should apply at both ends of the spectrum, some high MMR survivors should get matched against weaker killers, and some low MMR killers will get matched against average survivors. Both phenomena should lower the winrate and compensate to bring the total killrate to 50%. On top of it, there is the hatch problem, survivors have a way to escape without gaining MMR, so the killrate should not even be 50%, it should be less.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234112#Comment_3234112
So what about Wesker? Highest pick rate by far, should have an even lower kill rate, right?
The stats dont tell that story. You are infering that story from other factors outside of what the stats show, and using that to explain the stats.
That doesn't mean it's invalid, but it's not direct statistics.
Wesker is indeed totally broken on a statistical basis. I excluded him because he's new and survivors have seemingly not learned how to play against him yet.
You are welcome to provide a similar explanation for Nurse. I don't see any that could make sense. In fact, DCs being discarded makes me think her true killrate might be higher.
Also notice, I didn't claim that "Stats show that Nurse is broken" but instead that "if stats show something, it's more likely that she is broken rather than not broken"
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233958#Comment_3233958
Stats mean nothing because they seem to imply Nurse and Blight aren't broken and that's not something survivors can conceive.
The stats that BHVR shared DO imply that Nurse is broken at top MMR. She has the highest pickrate and Blight follows not too far behind. Both have 60% winrate wich is high considering their pickrate, notice the other top pickrates (Huntress and Legion) have lower winrates. They also do not count games with DC which I think impact Nurse games way more than other killers. I actually don't think Nurse is broken but you are insane to think the stats align with this. What the stats seem to tell is a story along the lines of "Nurse is broken but hard to play".
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234043#Comment_3234043
They're aiming for 60%, though.
Source? I don't think they have said this anywhere, but if true that would make sense.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233958#Comment_3233958
That bias probably comes from the fact that most ppl on the forum are very experienced players with a lot of dedication to the game. So the skill level is pretty high. And high mmr games survivors tend to do very well.
That claim that "high mmr survivors tend to do well" is directly contradicted by stats. The escape rate of 39% in the stats that BHVR shared IS at high MMR.
If you don't believe their stats, bad news for you, I calculated the empirical winrate of popular survivor streamers, and it seems to be around that number, if not lower: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/339868/massive-discrepancy-between-bhvr-stats-and-reality-solo-queue-seems-to-be-30-winrate (Note: unlike BHVR I did not discard matches with DCs and counted hatch as 0.5)
The reality is, escape rate is just that low. The stats that BHVR shared ARE representative of what you'll get if you queue as a survivor.
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@BasementDweller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233966#Comment_3233966
I'm talking about the top 5% mmr not overall.
Nurse is the most picked killer at high MMR. Nurse also has 3x the pickrate over Dredge and 2.5x over Plague. From this data alone it's very likely that Nurse is the better killer regardless of winrate. They also exclude games with DC (don't ask me why) which likely skews the stats a lot. A lot of people DC against Nurse.
The killrate (winrate) itself is not a very good indicator since MMR is supposed to bring it at 50%. It only shows that MMR does not work.
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Stats mean nothing because they seem to imply that the game is very killer-sided, and that's not something this forum can conceive
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@HellDescent said:
What they could do with tombstone piece though is give you a notification when he reaches tier 3 . Iridescent one is fine though. If you let him chub-up that's on you, since you should be able to tell he has it
Completely useless as Myers can and should keep tier 3 at 99%
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As normally a survivor main, I've played ~20 games with Tombstone Myers and 4K'd all of them, the vast majority of these games went the exact same way: first I would stalk 2 survivors and get tier 3 at 99%, ideally the obsession to gather PWYF stacks, then depending on whether the first 2 survivors I stalked were good in chase, I would drop the chase to find one of the 2 remaining, unsuspecting survivors at 2-3 gens. Most of the time they are totally unsuspecting and with PWYF tokens I would get a kill in 15 sec. Then it's easy to win 1v3.
I'm guessing the way to counter Tombstone on survivor side is to 1) have the obsession hide from Myers at all costs and 2) people need to pre-emptively jump into lockers when they suspect Myers has tier 3 at 99%. But that's a very hard thing to do in solo queue, especially doing 2) when you have no way to know how much % of stalk your teammates have given Myers.
Out of all of the games I played I can recall only 1 where somebody went into a locker right as I triggered tier 3, and I was still able to kill one of their teammates before Tier 3 expired.
I do think tombstone Myers is indeed broken and saying he's the worst killer is extremely misleading. He might be the worst killer against SWFs at Otz' level but not for most of the playerbase, the level of counterplay that is needed on the survivor side requires way more work than what the killer has to do. The killrates right now are above 50% for every killer including Myers, and there are several OP killers like Nurse, Spirit etc. maybe yes Myers is not as strong as those but it does not mean he's weak, Tombstone Myers is also multiple tiers higher than addonless Myers so it's hard to tier list Myers when his potential depends so much on one specific add-on.
On the other hand I agree that Tombstone is a fun addon and rarely seen (probably because of the BP cost) so I wouldn't mind if that stayed in the game. But saying that it's a skill issue is totally wrong and misleading. I am very confident I would beat the persons in this thread who call Myers 'weak', would you play solo queue and face me. Maybe you think you're good and know how to counter Myers, does not mean your solo Q teammates will know how to.
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12 bullets, not a single mention of camping? Your RP as survivor main is not very realistic
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217977#Comment_3217977
My logic is that the killer is a single player facing a team of 4. Being able to see items(not addons, not perks) is hardly gamebreaking as items themselves can be very powerful with the right build behind them and being able to adapt your loadout or your game plan before loading into the match is useful to the side that has a numbers disadvantages.
Trying to make this is into "survivors should see killer addons and perks then" when the killer doesn't even see that information in the first place is an irrelevant point. And survivors aren't going to see killer powers, because when that was possible it made playing certain killers practically impossible.
The survivor advantage is being a team of 4. The killer advantage is the element of surprise (not knowing who the killer before loading) and being able to adjust their build based on items survivors are bringing into the trial.
You could simply run Pharamacy or Residual to get a guaranteed med-kit or flashlight during the match and the killer wouldn't know to counter t.
I'm sorry you had a single bad game where the killer counterpicked your build, but that's far from a good reason to remove the ability to see items.
Your "logic" is not a logic. There's no logical link between all the things you list and the conclusions you draw from them.
The fact that items are powerful and that survivors are a team of 4, does not imply that the killer should be able to "adapt their loadout and game plan". No, it does not imply that. In fact, these 2 statements have ZERO connection to each other. And in fact², if there was a world in which your reasoning was true, then survivor perks should also be revealed to the killer, but they are not, so your logic is not even consistent with itself.
In the end, you might just as well say that killers can see survivor items because water is wet.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217955#Comment_3217955
Killers have powers, because they are the single player vs a team of 4. Killers also can't opt to not bring their power into a match.
Killers do not get to see the perks and addons of survivors so it wouldn't make any sense that survivors get to see that information of the killer.
You really don't understand that the game is asymmetrical. The killer gets more advantages because they are a single player.
You are saying that survivors shouldn't see X because killer cannot see X. So, applying your own logic in reverse: killers get to see the survivors, then survivors should see the killer too. And survivors can't see killer items (since they don't have items), so killers should not be able to see survivor items. I'm literally reusing your own logic.
The fact the game is asymmetrical does not mean one side should have more advantages then the other, no. It means both sides should be balanced differently, but in the end their advantages compensate for each other. And it clearly isn't the case, since the killrate is 61%.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217924#Comment_3217924
The survivor is the team of 4 and items are optional.
Does it suck to have your build hard counter by a killer's perk or power? sure
Does it prevent you from completing the objective and escaping? no
Since the beginning of the game's life, the killer has always been able to see the items survivors are bringing into trial. Items can be completely game changing. A flashlight save can really set a killer back on pressure. Toolboxes can mean sabo plays. Med-kits reduce the effectiveness of hit and run. Being able to adapt to a team of flashlights is important for the killer as it's the side with a disadvantage in numbers.
Double standard again
The survivor is the team of 4,so what? Killer also have powers, which survivors don't have. They already have much more powerful perks and add-ons to compensate for the disadvantage in numbers. As illustrated by the killrate of 61%...
You say that items should be hard-countered because they are optional and getting hard countered doesn't prevent you to reach your objective. OK let's assume that makes sense.
But then, killer perks and add-ons are also optional, right? And they do not prevent you from winning, in fact many streamers got 10+ kill streaks with perkless/addonless M1 killers.
So BY YOUR EXACT SAME LOGIC, survivors should be allowed to see killer perks and add-ons in order to hard counter it.
You are not making an argument, you are just enumerating random survivor advantages, and concluding that killer should have the same advantages, but not realizing that killer also has advantage which survivors don't have.
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@supersonic853 said:
So make franklins and lightborne useless? This is supposed to be a killer advantage so they can prepare for the match and to make their 4 perks more valuable. If you don't want to deal with it. Last second swap.
Perfect illustration of double standard:
A perk is useless for killer => super unfair, BHVR needs to patch it asap
Survivor items are made useless by said perk => totally fair, survivors need to git gud and adapt
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217185#Comment_3217185
You made them probably uninstall. Go easier on babies. Good thing I don't get them as I could not kill them I would just let them escape.
Trust me I have better things to do in my life than to stomp baby survivors, and especially waste a huntress Cornfield offering in the process. In fact, I always dodge baby survivors. But the thing is, I didn't know they were babies here: I normally face decent survivors on killer, and this specific instance was after 10+ minute queue, so when I saw 4 Bills prestige 0 in the lobby, I thought they were a troll squad. Then after getting 2 hooks quite quickly, both suicided immediatly and only then I realized they were actual noobs. But at this point 2 of them are dead at 5 gens so not much I could have done except sitting AFK.
And btw I tried to give hatch to the last one but he was such a baby that he didn't even realize I was being nice, kept constantly fleeing and wiggling out so I ended up hooking him, giving newbies free MMR is not gonna help them anyway.
This is why I take with a big grain of salt people who say they are "high MMR". MMR maybe exists, but if you spend too much time in the queue it throws literally anything at you.
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That's still better than the baby survivors I get as killer sometimes:
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That all your soloQ teammates are braindead is perfectly normal: if they were sane people, they wouldn't play soloQ in the first place.
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Coincidentally I did the same "strategy" a few months ago:
Facecamping experiment - 36 game win streak
I wish more people would do this and realize how absurdly rewarding it is. These were literally my first games with Nurse (supposedly a hard killer) and yet I won 36 games in a row. To this day, my killrate is 98.8% (2 people escaped out of 164). I won all these games simply by facecamping, slugging and tunneling, and not even good perks equipped.
DBD has by far the most broken balance state I've ever seen out of the any PvP game, and I've played many, many games. If I would get such high kill streak in any other game I would probably get auto-banned for cheating, but this is normal in DBD, in fact when I created my threads some people missed the point of the thread and came to brag that they reached longer streaks.
BHVR gives absolutely 0 ######### about facecamp and other cheap strategies, they think it's easy to counter because they design the game for an organized SWF, not realizing that soloQ lacks the critical information needed to counter it, instead they are going to patch flashlights, rework Moris and anti-cheat etc. because clearly that is the main problem of the game right now.
I did not BM when I did my facecamping streak, but next time I will, as I think it's more in the spirit of DBD in 2022. Maybe once the whole soloQ playerbase has left BHVR will implement some sort of incentive for the killer to not play like a douche, or maybe they'll implement survivor bots instead so killer players can still continue to play and reach the highest streaks ever recorded, idk maybe one day someone manages to reach 1000 win-streaks? that would be neat.
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No you can't, and BHVR totally supports these playstyles. The only toxic thing apparently is flashlight clicking since it will get patched out next update.
I played like this for a while as an experiment. Would regularly facecamp people, hit on hook, leave them on ground until end of EGC etc. especially if they were streamers. People would report me after the game but I never got banned (I ended up getting bored, but looks like the guy you screenshotted did not)
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I think you are missing some scenarios. For example on live it is quite common to have 2 survivors downed near the gates and by the time you hook one of them the other one manages to crawl and escape. With the change they would now both die.
I don't think it's a major buff for killer but it is a buff that makes no sense. Now survivors will have to stay near the doors for as long as other survivors remain in the trial, otherwise they will put their teammates in sudden position of Last Man Standing.
And all of that, for a Mori rework that nobody asked for, part of why the Mori cinematics were so cool was also because they were so rare, I don't see the appeal of having them become an unskippable cutscene over and over at the end of every 4K (which I think I get in 1/3 of my matches at least). I don't understand why forcing the Mori instead of letting the killer decide, I don't understand why they remove the offerings, why rework Devour and Rancor, why suddenly teleport the survivor in the middle of the stage (very unnatural on some maps), why remove photobombing and glitched walls which sometimes made for hilarious moments.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
There is always the option to turn off the end-game chat, but honestly BHVR needs to kill the chat altogether.
It boggles my mind that they are so sensitive to things like “accessibility” yet they’re totally OK with keeping this end-game chat which serves no purpose other than to be a forum for toxicity and bullying
TIL that talking with people serves no purpose other than bullying and toxicity
Wait, you are the BHVR dev who implemented the chat filter, right?
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@Robotfangirl67 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210125#Comment_3210125
I guess I misunderstood what people were saying. I apologize for that I thought the change seem like they were going in the right direction for helping people with disabilities.
I totally support initiatives for people with disabilities (and so do 90% of people I assume), the problem is when this is done with incompetence or dishonesty then these initiatives should be criticized. If they made it optional I would be all for it
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People are mad at this change because:
1) The patch note makes it look like this change is designed for "accessibility" when it's clearly not the primary reason, if it was just for epilepsy then they would make it only visual and optional (eg. an "epilpesy mode" in the settings) but here it is an ACTUAL game-impacting change for the 95% people who are not epileptic.
2) Flashlights don't need a nerf and flashlight saves are already hard enough to pull off (before you could use clicky-click technique if you started a flashlight save too early to delay it, now it's probably not possible anymore)
3) Flashlights are already super bugged after they keep messing with them for no apparent reason in the previous patches (currently they don't even aim in the same place depending on the character you pick)
4) BHVR prioritizing accessibility and cinematic QoL changes while ignoring massive core issues (streamers getting held hostage, solo Q miserable)
5) I am slightly colorblind, I cannot see green nuances very good, BHVR can you please remove the green color from the game so other people would not get an advantage vs. me?
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Solo queue in 2022. Hopefully they'll rename the button "Play as Survivor" into "Play as a punching bag" to reduce the confusion. ("Play as Killer" could be renamed into "50-winstreak simulator" since it seems like a sizeable portion of them plays for it)
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There is a way to differentiate between network issues and rage quitting, actually.
In DBD, a game is never going to end in more than 1 hour, realistically it will be over in ~20 minutes. So once they get a 20 minute penalty or more, a player has to be a complete idiot to keep DC'ing, they could instead sit AFK as killer or suicide on hook as survivor and be out after 5-10 minutes without penalty.
As a result, any penalty above 20-30 min is almost guaranteed to not affect players who willingfully DC. It will only affect the innocent players, eg. those who have network issues, or streamers who get DDOS'd / held hostage.
I can then say very confidently that the DBD penalty system is the worst I have ever seen implemented in a game. It somehow manages to have all the downsides of a penalty system (punish innocent players), without getting the upsides (everyone is still complaining about teammates who suicide/DC). They copied a system from other games (eg. OW, cs) without even realizing that unlike these other games, DBD allows players to legitimately leave a match early by suiciding, completely circumventing the penalty.
The solution imo is just to cap penalties at 15-30 minutes. There is literally no reason to have 6-hour penalties in a game where someone has a way to leave in 2 minutes. The only thing that does is make innocent players get disproportionally affected, streamers especially.