vladspellbinder
vladspellbinder
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@Khar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975747#Comment_2975747
I still don't see how anything positive can come from punishing a killer for killing. Face camping already can be punished via the other survivors having more than enough time to finish gens and leave.
The problem with a multiplayer game is you rely on other people to get the most out of the game. By face camping the Killer player is purposefully not playing the game as intended and depriving the other four players of a worthwhile gaming experience. A Killer's job is not just to kill one Survivor but to protect the gens and kill ALL of the Survivors. By face camping they are not doing their job of finding, chasing and hooking EVERYONE.
So the Killer isn't actually killing. The get one kill if the Survivors know what they are doing, maybe two only ever rearely more when the Survivors have no idea what to do. The problem is that most people don't know what to do against a face camping Killer so they dive bomb the hook for saves and just get downed and slugged.
And of course sometimes you don't even know the Killer is camping so you go and check and waste time that could have been placed on a gen. Kindred really should be base-kit for Survivors, to help Solo Q be more in line with S.W.F. so people will know when the Killer is face camping and if it IS safe to go for the save is anyone is actually doing so. That would be a major help in removing SOME of the camper if they knew they'd be seen but really face camping as a whole just needs to be hard shut down.
Face camping is not the Killer doing their job, face camping is the Killer wanting to ruin four people's gaming experience to get their own fun off of making other people mad.
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@Khar said:
The answer to camping isn't to punish killers for doing it, but rather giving incentive not to do it. The devs just need to actually put some effort into that.
I've had Killers who, when asked why they face camped at five gens tell me "Because I face camp people" or along those lines. I've run into people that have "Face Camp" in their names in some manner and wow, they only ever face camped the whole game.
These people didn't care about points.
They didn't care about gens or the exit gates.
They don't care about a 4k or even a 2k. They just want to face camp someone to be a [male genitalia].
These sorts of people very much won't stop face camping unless they literally can not face camp, no amount of incentives will make them stop.
So, no, I don't agree that the right way to go about it is not punishing people for doing it, because the only way of stopping some people from doing it will be making it so they can't do it in the first place.
For the record I am a Killer main, one of the main reasons I'm a Killer main is my that VERY FIRST GAME I played was as Survivor and I found first, easily downed and then face camped. My second game someone else was found first, downed and face camped and when they died I was found, downed and face camped so I said "Fine! I'll be the Killer and REFUSE to face camp anyone so it doesn't happen!"
I want to see face camping outright removed from the game. No incentives not to do it, nothing sort of not being able to face camp anyone will be enough for me. But it has to be done in such a way that it doesn't hurt proxy camping with isn't so easy to do and would require testing to get right.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
Wall of text! short answer is: there will never be a solution because devs don't see camping as a problem, they see it as a legitimate strategy that's completely fair so it will probably never be changed (people have posted ''possible solutions'' including ''pause the hook timer if the killer is nearby'' multiple times since the game launched and it's still here and will probably stay forever)
The devs have gone back and forth on FACE camping so many times you can't really use what they say about it as an argument for it to not get changed. In the infamous video about shots on goals camping was brought up and they said that they do want to do something about FACE camping but not PROIXY camping. I'm not sure if they've gone back on that since then or not because like I said they've changed their minds on it so many times it is not funny.
PROXY camping is a viable strategy, forcing a second stage or even a sacrifice while defending one or two gens at the same time. FACE camping is never viable for anything more than a 2k if the Survivors know what is going on and is just over all a ######### thing to do. The Killer is preventing all four Survivors from really playing the game by not interacting with them and making one player's experience even worse.
I'm not sure what the devs current stance on face camping is, but they have at times said they want to change it and other times said it was viable with the latest that I know of being that they want to remove face camping but not proxy camping.
Now as for an actual change, we don't need to be too crazy about it. It was before my time but they HAD implemented a "Pause timer if Killer is near hook" system but it didn't care about other Survivors being around so of course it was abused to get saves and was thus removed. But if it was brought back as a sort of reverse Camaraderie where if the Killer is within lets say 16 meters (inclusive) of a hooked Survivor while there are no healthy or injured Survivors within 32 meters (inclusive) of that hook the timer is paused. This would prevent "looping around the hook" like what had been done in the past while also stopping face camping straight up and not hurting proxy camping because you can still keep your eyes on the hook and a gen from 16 meters away. The only problem here is if you hook right dead in the middle of your three-gen but you'd want to be chasing people away form that anyways and might actually want the save to happen so you don't lose that hook just yet depending.
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@drsoontm said:
To be perfectly honest, I don't play lobbies with ...
- Bans newer than 800 days.
- One-stop shoppers.
- Fully numerical or random names.
- Steam profiles that haven't been setup.
I'm getting way less cheaters that I used to.
- OK, I just want to know: what is a "One-stop shopper" in this context?
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@lewisty said:
"hit 4 survivor(s) with your weapon while that survivor is exposed"
This is not working
Have done this multiple times and it does not register
I've tried with a totem perk (haunted grounds) tried with myers when he gets to tier3, hitting a survivor when they're fully exposed by plague
Have also tried making sure I hit EACH of the 4 survivors whilst exposed in case this was one of those BS challenges where multiple need to be done in one game
I had this happen to me with Shape for a game and haven't tried it again yet.
I just wanted to point out that Plague doesn't EXPOSE Survivors, she makes them INJURED and BROKEN, so even if the challenge wasn't bugged her base kit would not work for it.
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@Mandy said:
You don't lose your offerings if a match fails to start. The offering gets returned to the players inventory.
That is what is SUPOSED to happen, yes, but I HAVE been losing them. As I said, sometimes it was the last Offering of that type I had so I KNOW it wasn't just unequipped as when I went back to my loadout to reequip it it would no longer be in my inventory at all.
And I know for a fact I've gone down from having five of an offering to having only four of it from a "failed to start" game but I didn't keep better track of the other "failed to start" matches I had and if my Offering were returned or bunt to no effect. (Over the past week I seem to have had really bad luck and had two or three such games per night except for last night where I didn't have a single one. I don't know if it was the various testing messing with people or what was going on but hopefully it has settled out now.)
So maybe this should be in Bug Report? I don't know. Before the most recent spat I very rarely had such instance of the game failing to start.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901661#Comment_2901661
The thing you get when you press esc. I guess you can't really "pause" the game though.
Keep in mind this game is on consoles and not JUST PC. Console might not even have a pause screen and if they do it might not have the same information on it. (I play on PC only so I know what you are talking about, it is a bit hidden though and not many people know about it so it COULD be right there at the end screen.)
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2100282#Comment_2100282
Can we stop making this non issue a complaint? Players can be equally stupid across all platforms. Stop with the PC superiority complex.
It's not about "PC is better" PC sucks as well at times because this player base can't seem to not be toxic. I just had a PC only game where three people were being toxic to me so I just stopped playing and stood in a corner. All I'm saying is that every single time I have ever turned cross play on about 90% of the console players I was matched against were toxic.
There are toxic people on both sides, and if you main console then it's probably PC people who are the most toxic to you. It is just that in my personal experience, in the time slots I normally play, console players were MUCH more toxic than PC players was so I turned it off. I get much fewer toxic matches, but I do still get them.
It's not a either or thing, it's not one side or the other. Both have their toxic people. To me console was much more toxic than PC so I stopped playing against console all together and when I get toxic PC players I just stop playing that game as well.
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Well, make it FOUR times because the one I just got tonight was another Blink Daily. Which got rerolled into an Oni Demon Strike Daily with The Oni being a Killer I don't enjoy playing but I guess we're just not supposed to actually have any fun with the game any more anyways so why does it matter?
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Having Self-Care stapled onto Circle of Healing like some sort of Frankenstein's Monster Perk has always been my main problem with it. Far too many of my games has a Boon been set up and when someone is unhooked the person just off the hook runs away to the Boon area and the Survivor who did the unhook action goes and works on a gen.
It isn't so much the healing time as it is Survivor efficiency I have a problem with. By just KNOWING you can heal yourself in the Boon you don't have to find someone else to heal you and your teammates can just do gens or go for saves or body blocks or whatever else will help them win the game instead of having to have two people out of the action to bring someone back into it. The distance factor many others have brought up is also a problem, as the Boon can be set up far, far away from the last three or four gens so there is nothing the Killer can do about it that won't basically be giving up the game.
I say bump the healing bonus back to 100% and replace the Self-Care part of it with "Your Aura is revealed to all other Survivors" so people know you need healing while you're there. This also just so happens to give a buff to Solo players without helping out S.W.F. groups at all, which we need more of.
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Dead Hard is my number two hated Survivor Perk and I often see three or four of them in my games. My main problem with Dead hard is that it is EASY to play against (head bob or viable M2 bait it out, wait for a vault or drop etc) but it is not FUN to play against. I am so tired of hearing "Just bait it out" or other such arguments. I DO, that doesn't make it FUN to do. Sure it'll get a sly grin when it works but more and more people are not falling for the fakes because they KNOW your going to fake and if you DON'T fake then they hit it.
Dead Hard needs to not gain you distance, straight out. So many times have i seen people Dead Hard for a pallet or vault instead of to dodge a hit. "Dead Hard for distance" is a thing and you can't even "play around it" or "bait it out". There is very little you can do as Killer against a "Dead Hard for distance" other than "Just be better at chase then the Survivor" and and even then there are lot of times you can run a chase as tight as you can as the Killer you are playing and still fail because of how the tiles spawned.
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The is already enough content in the game as it is, we do not constantly need more more MORE content. I think if the devs skipped one new content update a year and did a "game health" update instead they would retain a lot more players AND attract more people because it shows they care about the long term health of the game instead of just the flash-in-the-pan thing they've got going on right now.
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I've said that baseline kicking should take off two or three percent progression in addition to starting the regression. Either that or baseline regression needs to be bumped up 0.5c/s (Ruin could be nerfed to 100%/125%/150% so it is not 1c/s but is still higher than the new basic regression to accoutn for it being a Hex and able to be removed) AND a Survivor has to repair the gen for at least a second without interruption before regression starts. One of the big problems with baseline kicking is that it takes two seconds perform but can be undone in a tap, so if they don't want to add straight up progression loss on a baseline kick then "gen tapping" has to be stopped instead.
Sadly I COULD see the devs making it a Perk instead of, not in addition to, a gameplay feature. Because that's how they "fix" things.
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As a PC player I'd love to be taken out of cross play with console people because then I could have cross play on and get the Window Store people instead of just Steam folks.
I play cross-play off because every time I turn it on Every. Single. And I mean, EVER SINGLE console player I ever been matched against or with was a toxic [bad word]head. Not that I don't still get toxic [bad word]heads playing PC only but the percentage is a lot lower.
So, sure, remove PC from cross play.
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@Katzengott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784362#Comment_2784362
Question: Did you actually ever get hold hostage ingame by a cheater? Or anyone else in this thread? In my exp it happens "only" to bigger streamers (which is bad enough ofc). But i have the feeling, "normal" players use that as an excuse to get rid of DC penalties.
Best solution would be that the server shuts down at any costs when the EGC timer ends. (and not 2h)
My very first hacker held me hostage for about forty minuets before I DCed. When it was obvious the game wouldn't end (about three minutes after the E.G.C. timer ran out) I got up, made dinner, ate while watching the latest Otz video (which was over half an hour long), washed the dishes, used the bathroom and came back to find myself still in the match with the hacker. So I just DCed and went through the report process. I ran into that same hacker twice the next night, lobby dodging both times, once more five days later and once more about a month ago.
After the match I was held hostage in I got three normal games in before getting another hacker and once they started doing the air dance and insta blinds and so on I just went ahead and DCed instead of waiting to see if they'd also hold me hostage or not. The few other hackers I've gotten as Killer I also just DC as soon as it is obvious. I don't DC as Survivor if someone is hacking because they don't tend to hold Survivor's hostage even if it's the Killer hacking, which I have only had one of thankfully.
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The speed nerf is just slightly above "pointless", an extra few seconds doesn't matter too much. The two big issues are 1) team wide Self-Care, when we already had the Perk Self-Care and 2) the fact you can apply Boons over and over and over again.
I think if they just removed the Self-Care ability entirely and bumped up the healing speed back to 100% the Perk would be fine. My main problem with it is that it allows one Survivor to heal solo making a three gen near impossible to maintain because you'll always have three Survivors. Maybe they could add in a "Show other Survivors my aura" bit so the rest of the team knows you're in the Circle needing a heal.
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@DBDVulture said:
I assume you forgot that : Boon: Exponential exists.
Boons are low risk/high reward. Totems are high risk/low reward. IF hexes are destroyed forever when the bones are touched then boons should get the same treatment. If the killer could rekindle an extinguished hex on a dull totem then hexes would not be so horrible,
Boon: Exponential is not as strong as Boon: Circle of Healing. CoH is the problem, not Boons themselves.
With Exponential you have to be slugged in the Boon's aura so two problems there: 1) Slugging is very conditional and most Killers will pick up right away or maybe do an area check to make sure there is no one else around for a blind save or pallet save but this short check won't be enough to get you back on you feet most of the time if no one else is around to run interference and 2) because you're near the Boon the Killer can likely hear it and find it and snuff it out before you fully recover.
Our of the three Boons we have Exponential is the weakest, because it only punishes slugging Killers and only in a very limited area. So if you don't slug very often as Killer you may never know this Boon was even in play. I wouldn't say it needs to be buffed, but it is very conditional and is rarely ever helpful in Solo Q. (Because everything works better with a S.W.F. it goes without saying.) If you are having major problems with Exponential as Killer then you need to stop slugging so much and put people up on hooks instead. (I'm a Killer main, I very rarely ever slug anyone, even when I play Twins. I've had a few games with this Perk around but it never got value and is so rare I sometimes forget it's even a thing.)
Outside of meme Bully The Killer spots like the R.C.P.S. library or Badham School lower floor with no Basement the majority of the time Exponential won't really help if the Killer plays smart and doesn't slug.
Boon: Shadowstep is more powerful but not broken. It helps in chase and only in a limited area, so if set up somewhere without line-of-sight blockers or places to hide then it doesn't help much. The problem is that a lot of Totem spawns are in places with line-of-sight blockers and places to hide so if used in combination with things like Deception and Quick & Quiet you can easily juke the Killer and hide. Thing is hiding only goes so far and once the Killer recognizes they can't rely on scratch marks they'll be more careful looking at hiding spots so it doesn't work all the time.
Boon: Circle of Healing is outright over powered. Sure it is only in a limited area, when there is only one, but you can have up to four of these healing areas at a time. In these areas Survivors can heal for free, by themselves, at base healing speed. For one Perk and negligible set-up time. For the whole game. If they do so in an area where they've finished the gens and all of the pallets are still up the Killer has no reason to go there. Not even to snuff the Boon because it'll just be reapplied when they leave. So Survivors get hit, run to the other side of the map, heal alone and come back to work on gens.
All it would take is a simple change to make it balanced: remove the Self-Care line so you either need Self-Care, a med-kit or another Survivor to heal. Being able to heal by yourself at base healing speed is just so very broken.
So, no, I don't agree with you that any Boon other then CoH is broken. CoH is the problem. CoH is the meta. Out of my past fifty games, on either side and yes I have been counting, thirty-nine of them have had at least one Boon: Circle of Healing in them, often two and in once case three. Of those thirty-nine games I was one of the CoH bringers for five games, mostly because for three games I was Mika and she didn't have very good Perks, one I was Jonah and he got it really early and didn't have other good Perks and finally as Ace because I'm still trying to get the "Bless You" Achievement so I bring a Boon if I have it.
CoH is a top Meta Perk for Survivor now, alongside Dead Hard and Unbreakable. The fact that Boon:
Infinite UnbreakableExponential didn't replace Unbreakable shows you how weak it is and how strong CoH is. About the only time I ever saw Exponential being run was when someone was running all three Boons together and if it was by itself the person was normally going for Adept Jonah.As for your other point I agree with the first half but not the second half, I don't think Hex's should be able to be reapplied. It wasn't ever intended they be reusable and they are not balanced accordingly, though some are really super weak anyways. But that was with Totem Cleansing in mind and not Blessing. Even so I don't think you should be able to reapply Hexs that have been overwritten. I agree with your first sentiment because the change I've always wanted to see was that when the Killer Snuffs out a boon the Totems is destroyed as if it has been Cleaned. That totem was found by a Survivor already who spent the time need to Cleanse it, or longer if it had been a Hex before, to apply their Boon. They already know where it is and can come right back to it to Cleanse it if it gets a Hew on it later, be it N.O.E.D. or Play Thing, so that Totem might as well already be broken. This way Boons would become a limited resource that you would need to be strategic about applying and not just throw down willy-nilly and as a side benefit would make Hex: Pentimento actually viable.
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I do like the idea, but I'd suggest a few changes.
Traps are active as soon as they are put on but the timer is halted in all the normal cases it is now: while in the dying state, while on the hook, while in chase. I don't know if I agree with 120 seconds in that case, maybe 140? 150 does seem a bit long for most maps and 130 just seems... awkward.
Each Jigsaw box can only be used once, deactivating the trap and resetting the timer to the max value but now can't be used by any Survivor. to deactivate their trap. We up the number of boxes to 8, giving every Survivor two uses, or more if they want to be greedy or others have already died. Or maybe instead of upping the number of boxes it is made so that any box will work for deactivating your trap but you can only ever use each box once. This would give every Survivor four times they can deactivate their traps but would also allow The Pig to try and zone people out of boxes they haven't used yet to get that sweet head pop.
Any deactivated trap (re)activates when a generator is finished. I don't like the unhook part of the idea, as that seems a bit too punishing and would disincentivize going for saves once everyone has a hat on. But you can't not do gens so it is a good means of activating the traps. And because a trap is active when first put it on The Pig doesn't have to worry about a trap being useless when the gens are all done and not everyone has a hat yet.
In addition to Face Mask and Slow-Release Toxin being changed to read "in an active Reverse Bear Trap" I'd also change Utility Blades to match, but NOT Rusty Attachments. Most of the time someone in an active trap won't let themselves get healed unless they are RIGHT NEXT to a box to search so the Mangled would be pretty useless if attached the the trap being active. The same isn't quite true of Haemorrhage though.
Rules Set No.2 is changed to read "Disables the Survivors' ability to see the Auras of Jigsaw Boxes while their Reverse Bear Trap is not active." Because it is active when first put on they'll be able to see the Auras right away and will have to remember where the unused boxes are after turning off the trap for the first time. But even so someone else might use a box in the time between them turning off their trap and it getting turned back on again if we went with the 8 box option.
Jigsaw's Annotated Plan looses the extra RBT and gains a new the second ability, the old second one becoming the new first one. The new second ability is "Each time a Generator is completed the maximum Death Timer of all Reverse Bear Traps is reduced by -10 seconds." This would apply to ones currently on people's heads and ones sill being carried by the The Pig. If we went with the 140 second timer than that'd make the timer be the now base 150 timer (because the current third ability of the add-on is still there) but it drops down to just 100 seconds if all five gens get done. The add-ons wouldn't "double hit" any traps that had been active before the gen was finished, the first ability just taking off the 10 seconds they now don't have from the max going down, but the new lower max would apply to the traps that are now active from the gen being done.
Your suggested change to Jigsaw's Sketch.
Video Tape specifically says "with deactivated Reverse Bear Traps installed." to avoid any confusion over the now active-on-placement effect from The Pig putting a hat on. And explicitly says "The Pig starts the trial with no Reverse Bear Traps." because it really should already say that to not make people think they get eight traps.
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The really whacky thing is that DbD Mobile already has this feature in it. At least seeing Perks and Item with add-ons. Dropping in another slot for the offering shouldn't be too difficult for PC and console.
I think they might need to have it so you have to hover over a person's name to see their loadout, or maybe just have a new screen in the options screen after the currently last page that shows everyone's ping, where it is the loadout screen from the after game lobby and se Survivor you can see what the other Survivors currently have on and can see the Killer's name but not load-out.
The way the lobby is set up right now it'd be cluttered to have four Perks, an item with two add-ons and an offering hovering over everyone's heads so they'd need to have it on another screen or space everyone out a bit more around the fire.
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I think that if instead of "snuffing out" the Boon the Killer just outright broke the Totem Boons would be fine. If a Survivor has found and blessed a Totem it could be considered as "cleansed" already and broken just like before Boons were a thing. The Totem should also break if the Survivor applies their Boon to a different Totem while the previous one is still active.
This change would mean that each Totem can only ever be Booned once so you'd actually have to be strategic about when you apply it instead of just doing it whenever. If you apply it too early and the Killer breaks the bones then you get no value but if you do it too late you won't have it around to help when needed.
Circle of Healing also needs a half nerf, removing the healing speed boost from the self healing part of it, so you still only heal yourself at 50% speed. Healing other people twice as fast is not too busted, it is still delaying two Survivors instead of three, but being able to heal yourself at base speed without needing someone else around is just too strong. Then you add in med-kits with add-ons and other Perks and it just gets crazy. It'd be too much to ask that the self healing half of it be totally removed because we already have Self-Care so making it just Self-Care with no extra speed boost it what I'd ask for.
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@Underdawg said:
Send yourself to Gideon. I find people are a lot more willing to drop pallets when they have a million of them to burn.
@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2687303#Comment_2687303
You beat me to it.
I'm still in the "Bloodpoints poor" stage and don't have the BP to dump into someone in search of Realm Offerings. So while I would do this when I can it's a Band-Aid not a cure.
@Thunderfrog said:
I don't like to play friendly killer, but I do for these sorts of events. I've found that if I just stand under a pallet and whack it, someone will catch on that I'm after a challenge. And one thing both survs and killers can agree on is that in this games ridiculous BP grind, challenges are important. (And often worth more BP than a 4k).
Once they whack you, got to the next pallet. I've cleared all 20-30 something pallets of Gideon this way. They'll also usually understand that if you whack the generator, that you want to take turns repairing and kicking. Then, if you are REALLY lucky, they will trade you BBQ hooks for healing and WGLF unhooks.
Then its up to you whether you want to NOED/Warden them at end gates or not, but I think its generally bad form to do so.
I don't like to "play friendly" either, which is why I'm complaining about the Challenge via normal gameplay. Some Challenges I've tried to do normally and just couldn't get for one reason or another, mostly the "In one trial" ones, like the "Damage the same gen five times" one (or how many ever times it was). Pallet break Challenges are doable but just plain annoying. I want a Challenge to be a challenge, not just a tedious task. I know that's not how the devs use them but a man can dream right?
@[Deleted User] said:
I don't see the issue. You don't have to do it in a single match. It's one of the easier ones to just leave on in the background that eventually gets done simply through normal gameplay.
The problem comes in when it's the very first Killer challenge in the list and you HAVE to complete it to get to other ones that are more fun to do. I DID have it on "in the background" but for a couple of games I made very little progress with it because either only one or no pallets got dropped and I couldn't apply pressure to kick the gens.
As I said above I want to Challenges to actually be challenging, not just tedious. And also as said above yes I know that's not how they normally are anyways but it can't hurt to at least ask they get changed, right?
@shootaman777 said:
It's more about the killer you are using, rather than the survivors you are playing against. Some killers force pallet drops, others make dropping pallets a bad idea. Leatherface, Deathslinger, Clown, Nemesis, and Doc, for instance, force lots of pallet drops. But very few people will drop pallets against Huntresses, Nurses, Hillbillies, Legions, Plagues, Pyramid Heads, and Tricksters. Nemesis and Leatherface, in particular, are the best killers for this challenge, especially when you run the proper Spirit Fury/Enduring on Leatherface, or hit t2/3 mutation on Nemesis.
Yeah, but even then it's a toss up on if they drop or not. I've played many Leatherface games where a Survivor will play "Pallet chicken" with me trying to get that stun and they loose, going down with the pallet still up. I could have pulled back, to give them the pallet down, but that's not normal gameplay and my whole argument is how hard it is to get pallets to drop though normal gameplay.
At a certain level Survivors just stop dropping pallets, at least during the early-to-mid game. Normally after the last gen is done they fall like timber at a Lumberjack convention but, again, if you're letting the gens get done as Killer you're either doing a bad job or have an end game build and I personally don't do the latter.
I am very much aware that some Killers are better than this than others, but I'd rather the Challenge not be am un-fun slog.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2687186#Comment_2687186
The hatch and keys really were fine as they were. The only issue was - and to an extent still can be - hatch offerings. Those should have never been created, or only available to killers. And it’s hilarious they were introduced in a period hatch complaints were rampant on these forums.
Killers don’t need to have blowout matches every trial.
As @Laluzi said the previous Hatch and Key mechanics were really bad, as there was very little to nothing a Killer could do to stop three people getting out at one gen after Killing the first person. You play a perfect game as Killer, being fair, spreading out hooks and not camping or tunneling anyone, setting up a great three-gen and just after that ninth hook everyone else escapes. It was a really bad feeling and extremely unfair to the Killer.
But the change the devs made was too far in the other direction and now Hatch is near useless unless VERY lucky. It never should have been only "one Survivor left" because that means you either have to wait for your teammates to die or for them to leave, and it's already been covered while the second one isn't a good thing to be waiting on.
The devs just don't really understand how people actually play their game most of the time and design with their perfect ideal of how the game flows. In their minds as soon as the gens are done and a gate opened everyone automatically leaves and if someone is waiting for Hatch they can now go look for it. But that's not what most people actually do in the game, they wait at the Gate for any number of reasons.
@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2687292#Comment_2687292
Again, I know that getting a 4SWF together would be the easiest way - I have acknowledged that in my original post as well as in comments. I know there are sections here in the forums and on discord to find people to play with. The problem is that the challenges shouldn't be forcing people into a 4SWF in the first place. This is an issue in many parts of DBD, the devs keep forgetting there are players that are solo that are being left behind in balance because they only think of 4SWF. Now not only is it balance but it's Tome challenges as well and that's not OK.
Changing a Tome challenge to not involve a hatch would not be something that "takes years to fix", on first archive they changed challenges involving EGC while that rift was still open. All they have to do is change this challenge to do something that would actually make Alert useful like dropping pallets/working on gens and then make a note to not add anymore hatch challenges in future Tomes.
I want to make this clear: I agree with you. You should not be forced to play in a SWF with comms to have a chance at a Challenge. And while you can still do Hatch Challenges outside of a SWF it is just very difficult to do so now because of the changes. I'm just trying to make suggestions on how you can try and deal with it for now until we get a change, IF we ever do.
As for them changing things during a Rift that was because those Challenges were straight up not working at all, you couldn't gain progress in them. It wasn't that they were hard to do, it was that they literally could not be done at all. That's why I see it taking the devs a really long time, if ever, to stop adding or change the Hatch Challenges; because they can still be done, it is just way harder than it needs to be.
@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2687292#Comment_2687292
Wait, I just saw you made a post (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/299164/please-stop-asking-us-to-break-pallets#latest) asking for them to stop adding breaking pallet challenges because it's out of the control of the killer if a survivor drops a pallet and for it to be easier you need to play friendly. Then you came in here saying "we just have to learn to deal with this stuff" when I said hatch challenges should no longer be added since the change in mechanic because they require too much out of your control to complete and are only easier for 4SWF that can coordinate. You also said you don't care if you drop MMR in this post because you get easier matches, so wouldn't dropping MMR to get survivors to drop pallets be OK?
I'm sorry but the fact you argued against my points as survivor in here only to use same points as killer in different post is pretty ridiculous.
Quoting you twice to cover these two topics separately.
I use different logic in the two topics because they are different topics.
As Survivor the Hatch WILL spawn no matter what you do, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to make use of it. If everyone else is hanging around the Exit Gate while the timer ticks down and just won't leave while you're running around the map looking for Hatch (if you were not aware there is a bug in the game where even if Hatch is not visible it still has collision, so if you run over it as Survivor or Killer your character will be 'standing on the air' so you CAN find it this way and wait for it to open) even if you never find it and get killed because of time-out the Hatch did spawn somewhere after everyone else left. Same goes for if everyone else is dead and the Killer found it first; it spawned and you just lost your chance to use it.
My problem with a "break pallets" challenge is that through normal gameplay a Killer can not drop pallets to break them. There are ways of making it more likely they will get dropped, yes, but in the end it is up to the Survivors to drop them for you to break. You can "go friendly" and make it clear you want them dropped, but that isn't normal gameplay.
Killers still "have to deal" with it just like Survivors "have to deal" with how hard Hatch is now. And just like you asked there to be no more Hatch Challenges because of how hard it is to get I was asking there to be no more "break pallet" Challenges because of how annoying they are to get. Same concept, slightly different logic.
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@str4wberryp said:
These challenges usually also comes with "break doors and kick generators".
Just kick gens non stop, survivors will usually help you with that.
We've got the "Drop in chase or break" one as well, which means that as Survivor you have to play like a little [female dog] and just use up all the pallets.
Even with adding in gens you've got to go 'friendly' mode to do FIFTY in a reasonable number of games. And another factor with kicking gens is that unless the Survivors are memeing and slash or being a bully squad they are going to do gens for you to kick, because they have to be done for them to win.
As for breakable walls, well, some maps just don't have very many of those at all.
My main problem is that the Killer has no real control over the challenge to break pallets. Gens will be done because they HAVE to be done, but a lot of Survivors would rather take a nap on the ground than drop a pallet too early or at all, even when you're trying to force the drop. Pallets are hard to get to drop playing "normally", that is not being "friendly" and not going for hits at pallets so you get stunned instead.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2687186#Comment_2687186
Console doesn't have chat, even if it did it would take the entire time of 1 minute in lobby to type out anything with a controller. Same goes for typing out a message to anyone - and that's if they don't have their profile set to private to avoid the toxic messages that come with this game. Like I said before a 4SWF can coordinate for this challenge to work, all the others just need 1 random to prevent them from getting hatch - that's not OK.
I know hatch is possible, I'm not saying it's not. I've gotten hatch by pure luck of it opening next to me when killer has slugged for 4k. The problem is how you now need multiple things outside your control to now escape through the hatch. You need to be the last one in the match so either your whole team dies before last gen finishes (which would be best way outside a 4SWF to find hatch) or hope your team leaves before the EGC timer runs out (and hope none of the randoms are also running the same challenge and waiting for people to leave). If you had to wait for team to leave during EGC timer you need to hope you can find the hatch before the timer runs out.
This challenge also does not help your MMR - you could die trying which will lower your MMR or you escape through hatch and your MMR doesn't go up because hatch escapes don't count towards MMR.
I agree with you that because of the Hatch change Challenges that involve it are not fair. I'm just trying to give some suggestions on how to help make it easier because we've got Hatch Challenges and will get more Hatch Challenges, it's just how the devs work.
And to each their own, I could not care less about my MMR, because it is a number I can't see and having high MMR means I have less fun games. I am very willing to tank my MMR as Survivor and the only reason I'm not already doing so is because I'm trying to reach Rank 1 for the Achievement. I understand that other people care about their MMR and that it is a factor in these Challenges but it's not a major factor.
Really your best bet would be to find three other people to SWF with. If you lack friends (like myself) there are a lot of recourses to find them. Make a thread on the forums here looking for a group, or join Twitch streamer Discord and pair up with them when you can. You don't HAVE to do these things solo, and until you can try them with SWF do others.
It doesn't fix the problem, but with this game and the devs working on it we kind of just have to learn to deal with stuff like this because if it ever gets fixed it'll take years and then it might be "fixed".
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@Bwsted said:
They can do it. But they can still look at games where dh wasn't used.
For bloodlust, it was different because it's an ever present mechanic. You can't test its effect without turning it off.
You...get games...without Dead Hard? You mean this is actually possible?
Hyperbole aside I played nine Killer games and four Survivor games this morning, total number of games without a single Dead Hard: 2, one on each side. Two of the Killer games had four Dead Hards, another had two. For two of the Survivor games I was the only one without Dead Hard (as I sort of refuse to use it unless a Challenge makes me, I'd rather just not have an Exhaustion Perk than run Dead hard).
My "Streak of Killer games with at least one Dead hard" hit fifty-three before being broken. I stopped counting the number of games with four of them when that number hit fifteen. It was too depressing. The streak got back up to twenty-two before being broken again and is now at two.
What I'm saying here is I'm really, really, REALLY sick of seeing Dead Hard. It is not fun to play against. It is easy enough to play against, just not fun.
I wouldn't mind it being yeeted out of the game into the Abyss but I know that is never going to happen. Really, I just want the distance to be nerfed, either removed totally or cut in half. I don't mind people having invincibility frames and making me eat an attack cooldown, what's annoying is people playing sloppy and making mistakes and just undoing all their mistakes by using The Almighty E to jump to a vault or pallet.
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I don't know if console players can chat in the lobby before game as I am a PC player but if you're on PC and have cross-play off you can just use the lobby chat to ask people to leave so you can find Hatch. It's not a perfect solution but it helps somewhat. Another option is as you said going S.W.F. and if you lack people to do that with again, use a lobby chat if you can or messaging on console, asking the people you just played with to team-up to try and help out.
But I do agree, with the changes to Hatch spawning any such Challenges are indeed much harder to do. As Killer I've seen several Hatch escapes and as Survivor I've gotten two myself and seen a few more but they are not as easy as they once were.
@GoshJosh said:
Alternatively, undo the hatch nerfs.
Not undo, but change. There NEEDED to be a change to Hatch and slash or Keys, they were WAY too powerful before. The change I WANTED to see done was "Hatch only spawns when five generators are fully repaired", none of that "(gens done) = (live Survivors +1)" math. The main problem a lot of Killer players had was with two or three people managing to escape via the Hatch without having to finish the last one or two gens, making any sort of three-gen useless. Remove the Hatch math and you remove that problem. The devs just went a bit too far in the other direction is all.
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First off, I'm a Killer Main. I feel I need to lead with this any time I want to try and defend the Survivor side of things. I am a Sometimes Survivor, I play the role infrequently and play Killer much more often. It's something close to a 85-15 split between the two roles. OK, having got that out of the way... .
I don't think gens should be blocked on both hits, or if so not for 8 seconds each time. If you go with "Block on each hit" then make it only 4 seconds. There is also a small problem of what counts as "a freshly chased Survivor", because you can drop chase for all sorts of reasons and as Play With Your Food has shown us you can just moonwalk after someone to start and stop chase as desired. Maybe it should be more "the first time you down a Survivor in a trial" you get this block effect, without it being a Perk, it just being basekit. That would give you 32 seconds of basekit gen delay for downing each Survivor once. This would be more powerful on instadown Killers of course, but that's a reoccurring balance problem with instadown Killers so... ~shrugs~
As for the other one, I like the suggestion Otz made when it comes to Toolboxes; instead of (most of them) adding to gen repair speed they add "true repair" (Video ID is N7RkW1dw5BM, toolboxes start at 11:09). "True repair" is a percentage of the gen that can now no longer be regressed through any means, but you only gain it at the normal 1 charge per second. He fully agreed that repair speed buffs could get really crazy and that something needed to be done about them but that you have to factor in how powerful Ruin and or Pop can be. So you make it so things are not done faster but you have baseline progress that can never be taken away. He didn't make any suggestions on the add-ons that bump repair speed but if (most of) the toolboxes themselves are not adding to it then they shouldn't be too bad, the charge add-ons are almost universally better anyways. B.N.P. might be a littlie tricky but the other change would need to be tested first before fiddling with B.N.P. to make sure it stays powerful but not broken.
I don't think gen repair Perks are too bad, maybe Prove Thyself could be dropped a few percent so it doesn't just outright negate the repair penalty for more than one person working on a gen, or maybe only applies per Survivor working on the gen in question. Because as it is right now you can have two people working on a gen and a third nearby and the two on the gen get a net +15% repair speed (base -15% for two people on the gen +30% for 'two other' Survivors nearby). At least that how it is WORDED that it works, I've not tested it myself to see if it ACTUALLY works like that or not. Either way it should probably only give +10% per 'other Survivor' so that it is still better to split up and do multiple gens at once but it can come in clutch when you need to break a three gen.
I think the other Perks that involve gen speed repair are fine as they are, because they are pretty conditional most of the time.
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Yeah, I agree. When I first loaded my Survivors screen after the update and saw Dwight's new portrait my first though was "Why is his face so shiny?" and my second being "Oh honey, what did they do to you?"
They need to change it to be somewhat closer to the previous version.
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@Voodoo101 said:
Most killers don't bother with camping, because it is not productive. Staying around the area and being close enough to go for the survivors when they are unhooked is a different thing. The only time killers camp is when the survivor is being toxic, such as just running round the killer using the flashlight every opportunity just to be annoying. Then it is your own fault because you are probably the person that teabags at the gate when you escape
My very first ever game of Dead By Daylight I get found out in the open by an Executioner, haven no idea what I'm doing so I go down easily and I get face camped. I wasn't toxic in anyway because I barley did anything other than run to a T-L wall which I failed to use at all. My second game was against a different face camping Executioner that found one of my S.W.F. and me teammates out in the open, downed the other person before they had a chance to be toxic and face camped them.
I've had many, many games where I get face camped first and wasn't toxic. I sometimes get to play in some S.W.F.s with people I know are not toxic Survivors and they get face camped. You cannot make a blanket statement such as "The only time kilter camp is when the survivor is being toxic" and have it be true. I go very much out of my way to not be toxic as Survivor because I can't stand it as Killer so I'm not going to be part of the problem. I still get face camped all the time.
I will admit that as Killer I do face camp the toxic ones from time to time, but it's a bad habit I need to break. It never feels good in the end, sinking to their level, even they do die. It's just not worth it to give them what they want.
@Shaped said:
How it's always the same idea?
Stop the timer. Every thread ever about this.
I never saw any other suggestion that differ much from it.
Because there really isn't much else you can do about face camping that would matter. The only thing a face camper cares about is getting a kill. They don't care about BP. They don't care about their grade. They don't care about anything but that one kill.* So doing anything that punishes face camping in any way other than making it so they don't get that kill won't work.
If you give the hooked Survivor a better chance of escaping they'll just be downed anyways. If you give them that plus free BT from a self unhook they'll get tunneled and hooked again anyways. If you give them both and a free DS as well they'll still be tunneled and hooked again. Because the face camper doesn't care about gens or wasting time. They only care about getting one kill.*
The only viable thing to add that punishes a face camper is giving the person on the hook more time on the hook, so either stopping the timer or extending the timer. If you just go with an extension the face camper is still gaining progress and has no reason to stop camping so it isn't a solution at all, it just gives the other Survivors an even better chance of getting a three person escape over a two person one.*
So out right stopping the timer is the only full solution to face camping. The problem is that a lot of people don't know that this was tried in the past so they don't put any qualifiers on it. Just "Killer is near stop the timer" with no regard to anything else. The problem with that is it just means a Survivor can forever loop the Killer around the hook while the other two do gens and if the Killer can't down the person in chase they have no real options other than just leaving and letting the unhook happen. I have no problem with that against actual face campers because [bad word] them but it also punishes non-camping Killers, of which I am a member of so I'm not a fan of that.
My suggestion is having a sort of reverse
CamaraderieKinship being game basekit, no Perk needed; If the Killer is within 16m of a hooked Survivor with no non-Dying Survivor also with 16m of the hook the Sacrifice timer is paused, during both Summoning and Struggle Phases. This will stop face camping while not stopping proxy camping, the very thing the devs have outright sated they want to do.Getting face camped isn't fun. It isn't fun, for me, to face camp someone. I have no problem with face camping just being outright removed from the game, as long as it is done in some way that doesn't punish non-face camping Killer play.
*Many campers will run NOED so that they camp out the first person, get their second to camp out at one or two gens and then get a third during the E.G.C. so they are still going for a 3 or 4k but really they only care about getting one kill via camping and anything else is just a bonus.
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@IWFreak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2583510#Comment_2583510
Check your controls.
I had the same thing. The cause is probably you having bound Q and E to turning your camera. Mainly for use with Hillbilly. These controls overlap with survivors ability button, which is E.
I changed the ability button to F, so I don't have the problem anymore.
@oxygen said:
You probably have Q+E bound to turn left and turn right. I know I do, ever since I did so for easier cruise control as Billy.
So yeah, my camera spins to the right whenever I use AME or boon a totem, because my E key is bound to both look right and that special ability action.
@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/289321/please-stop-the-spinning
Didn't you change camera control on keyboard to E?
I have done that for Billy etc. and then had this issue, because multiple things on E....
Yeah, I feel really dumb now. I've got E bound to rotate the camera. I'll rebind the action key. Derp.
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@crowmeo said:
sounds like joystick drift
I sue keyboard and mouse, not a controller. If I remove my hand from the mouse the camera spins around without any input from me whatsoever.
@jesterkind said:
That feels like a bug, my friend, I don't think it's supposed to be doing that.
So this doesn't happen to you when you use these Perks? I may have to try and get someone to go into a custom with me and get a recoding of it for a proper bug report.
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First off, I'm a Killer Main.
I hate camping Killers, I have sworn to never camp someone who hasn't been toxic to me first. I think a modified version of Camaraderie should be base kit for all Survivors.
"When a Survivor is on a hook and the Killer is within 16m of the hooked Survivor with no non-Dying Survivor within 16m of the hook the hooked Survivor's Sacrifice Progression is paused until the Killer moves further away than 16m or a non-Dying Survivor moves within 16m."
This would straight up prevent face-camping while not impacting proxy camping, which the devs have outright said they want to do. That is fix face-camping without hurting proxy camping. I know that there was a text done in the past where if the Killer was close to a hooked Survivor there would be no Sacrifice Progression and this just lead to people just looping around the hook all game so it got removed but that's why you add in the "non-Dying Survivor is close" bit. And you have the "non-Dying" clause to force the Killer to pick up instead of slug under hook.
You'd need to make it so Survivor's can't crawl under someone hooked if that is still in the game, I've not seen it done in a while so I don't know if that was ever changed or not.
Camaraderie can then be changed so that if you are on hook your Sacrifice Progression doesn't start if someone else is nearby AND if someone else is on the hook you do not start theirs. Both effects would share the same amount of time it can be used.
@Nayru said:
i'd run it constantly in solo and theoretically turn one person's 1st+most of 2nd stage into literally all 4 other gens popping
but in reality they'd punt themselves to 2nd stage after 5 seconds of being stared at by killer and then miss two skillchecks
people, the absolute best thing you can do vs actual campers is make them burn every god damn second you possibly can if you're the one on the hook and genrush if you're not, kindred tells whoever has it or everyone what to do in this scenario, and even bubba can't prevent a bt trade
I wish more people knew this, both aspects. I see so many people kill themselves on first hook because they are getting camped, might as well just DC when the game starts. And then the other side, people hovering around the hook wanting to save with the Killer right there waiting. Just. Do. Gens. People. I've had a few games where I was the only one doing gens because one person was on hook and the other two skulked around it wanting to save but never moving in to try and trade. I just stopped doing gens in those cases because I can't do all five by myself damnit!
I will respectfully disagree with you that Bubba can't stop BT trades. With the right add-ons or even just a good position like basement and some other non-basement hooks he can very easily get double hits with an even half-way descent chainsaw sweep. I believe the speed you get with The Beast's Marks alone is more than enough to catch up with the speed boost from the first hit if you time your second and third charges right and the Survivor just holds Shift+W. If they have no windows or tight corners to use the BT hit wastes only just a few more seconds of time.
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I am also having this problem, checked my local files and they are all correct.
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Huh, maybe I should actually try and raise my Killer MMR then. At least the pallets would be dropped instead of running around them nine times and winding up with the Survivor on the ground because they got greedy for another loop... .
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@ShadowNurseZFX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2566132#Comment_2566132
I am aware, and can I just say. Why do you care so much about spelling and punctuation? It does not make any sense.
It shows me you are inconsiderate with your words, so why would I think you've considered what the changes you want to make would actually do to the game?
There is no rush to type a forum post, especially if you are the original poster. You've shown me that you didn't take the time to read though what you typed and make sure it was correct so how can I trust that you took the time to think on your suggestions?
You not caring that your grammar is wrong is another red flag, because if you don't care about that what else do you not care about? What part of game balance are you willing to ignore to change something else? It might be a small thing, but small things matter and I find this one important. When making a forum post your are trying to get others to agree with you, being inconsiderate with your words is not a good look for that end.
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@ShadowNurseZFX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2566092#Comment_2566092
I changed it. Happy now?
I had been working on a reply to your first response but got a game so then when I come back from that I see you responded again.
I refresh to check and you didn't even fix the very first one that was wrong and removed the one that was correct in that sentence AND you have an incorrect usage later on now that I don't think was there before (" if your tunneling"). Is English not your first language? Any time you would say "you are" is when you use "you're".
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I'm sorry I can' keep reading this, the constant misuse of "your" in place of "you're" makes it hard for me to take anything you type seriously. If you can't take the time to check your grammar how can i trust you've thought out changes to the game?
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@Canas said:
Dead Hard should disable the survivor's ability to interact with the environment (no vaults, no pallet drops, no gentapping) for 3 seconds after dashing, that way it would become somewhat balanced and survivors wouldn't exploit it to extend loops with after already making a mistake.
This! My main problem with Dead Hard is that people will play fast and loose in chase, making suboptimal moves because they know they can just E to the pallet or window and then suddenly they start being much more careful and precise in their movements.
I find Dead Hard extremely not fun* to play around because of this, you can very clearly tell when someone has it because of how they play. If people didn't have the safety net of "Dead Hard to pallet and drop it" then they'd be forced to actually play well ALL the time and when the Survivors are playing well that is what makes for the fun chases.
Dead Hard for distance, to get into that TL tile, run around the outside NOW vault, great! We get some real chase and not just time wasted for your buddies to do gens. Almighty E to the pallet in the junk loop for an extra go round THEN drop it. Still annoying, I hate the "Run seven times then get hit anyways" meta when it comes to junk loops but still better than what we have right now.
I'm just so tried of seeing Dead Hard. I had a streak of fifty-two Killer games in a row (over a few days) with at least one in the lobby. I had one game without one and it was just so refreshing. I'm now on a twelve game streak with at least one Dead Hard in the lobby, with two games having four. I'm with the OP here and that I'd rather see 99ed Sprint Bursts than more Dead Hards.
*Dead Hard is easy enough to play around, yes, doesn't make it any more fun to do so though.
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This is an on-line multiplayer game, if your connection is spotty and not stable you should not be playing any on-line multiplayer games because each time your connection drops it impacts more than just you.
This is very elitist, I know, "Don't play if you don't have the money for good internet" sort of thing, but it is the cold hard truth. If you are racking up high DC timers because you keep dropping from games, well, you're constantly dropping from games and ruining other people's experiences by doing so.
The DC ban timer is there to prevent this exact sort of thing, along side the "Join, start, leave" some people try and do.
You are not the first to have posted on this matter, you will not be the last, but you and everyone else with this problem needs to stop and think about how your spotty connection impacts other people and not just yourself. If you drop out of every third or fourth game because of bad internet then every single one of those games is ruined for at least three other people. (Because I know some Killer players just love seeing an early DC because it's now an easy 3k.)
It sucks, yes, but it is better for everyone this way. If YOU had good internet and kept getting matched with the same person who DCs every third or fourth game because of their internet and no there was DC penalty then I'm sure you'd be rather upset and wonder why they were allowed to keep playing.
Sometimes there are solutions for bad connection that don't require more money, look into fixing your computer/console and connection issues so you don't keep dropping out without picking the disconnect option. There are tons of resources on-line for this sort of thing if you look for them.
I hope you can get better hardware or a better connection so you can keep enjoying the game and not have to worry about it disconnecting on you.
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I, too, have this same issue. Gen four is silent when finished. It has happened pretty much all of my Killer games as of late, it just happened in the one I finished. I've not noticed if it ONLY does it in chase but this last match I was indeed in chase when gen four got finished and didn't make the sound.
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@Clowning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2527242#Comment_2527242
Wait, you actually did? Lmao my 6th sense is real.
I only did so after you mentioned it, so you're not so much prophetic as you are causative.
@Baby_Victor said:
I only play pig to down and t-bag those who come looking for a free boop. You earn those from me.
It's your snoot, so it's your right on who gets to boop it or not.
I'm more of a "free snoot" sort of Pig but to each their own.
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@Clowning said:
Is this Reddit?
You're totally right, I have also posted this on reddit...now it'll be a few weeks before I remember to check back there and see if anyone has commented on it.
@Barbarossa2020 said:
Come near me with your grubby fingers and ill give you a shiny necklace.
Don't mind the beeps, that's just to let you know you're about to get a prize. You'll never have to bother with a dentist again.
So you're a Mean Pig breeed then. That's fine! Mean Pigs keep the Pig population up when MMR gets rough, so we do need Mean Pigs around. I'm more of a Nice Pig myself but I play the game for fun, not 4ks so to each their own.
@PureDoctorMain said:
I feel like i'm watching the discovery channel.
I was aiming for that sort of tongue-in-cheek campiness so good to know I hit it.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2522812#Comment_2522812
The gen perk as long as the radius was pretty decent i think i would overall be happy about. in theory it should be pretty simple and not have the ability to clog your sound with notifications.
With the locker perk it could pair with furtive chase, give it some value. otherwise i'm fine with a weaker perk that can give at least 1 or 2 good grabs a game. and in gameplay you probably wouldn't be able to get a lot of value out of it. and i would be fine with it countering deception or quick and quiet. killers deserve counter play too.
I'm a Killer Main, I play about 80-20 Killer-Survivor. When I play Killer I see the following Survivor build most often; Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Iron Will. I've had games where all four Survivors run this same build. Sometimes Unbreakable is replaced with Soul Guard (because of how prevalent Ruin + Undying is), sometimes DS or IW is replaced with Bowered Time and rarely Spine Chill. Very rarely is DH another Exhaustion Perk, normally either Sprint Burst or Head On. I'd rather see four Head Ons with four Vigils for perma-stun than a single Dead Hard.
I love getting people who run Deception, Lithe, Quick & Quiet and some other Perk, normally Spine Chill or Resilience for that little extra vault speed.
I agree that Killers should have access to counter play against the Survivors, but right now "counter play" consists of "1) Find someone on a gen holding M1 and hit them. 2) Chase after them as they Hold W and pre-drop every pallet. No mind games, only W and pre-drop. 3) Once you actually catch up to them wait out Dead Hard. 4) Repeat step 2 after they Dead Hard to a pallet or a vault and continue holding W. 5) Finally get a down and don't ever slug, hook right away." and then when that person is unhooked you can't hit them right away because of BT and you can't pick them up or grab then because of DS and you can't slug them because of Unbreakable so it's all just no fun, no counter play, not interesting.
What I'm getting at here is I don't want any Killer Perk that would remove what little incentive there is for people to run off-meta Perks and combos. If we got a Perk that just outright shut down Deception and slash or Quick & Quiet then we'd see less of them and more DS + DH + IW + Unbreakable slash Soul Guard and I'm already totally sick of it.
I'd love to see some kind of Perk that gave Exhaustion on hit. We have Mindbreaker, which shuts down "Sprint Burst off gen" but doesn't do anything against DH. There's the Huntress add-ons that helps a bit as well but it's, well, only for Huntress. I want some FUN counter play to DH that isn't just "ride their butt until they dash away". Just some kind of incentive to shake up the meta Perks.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2522747#Comment_2522747
the gen perk in my eyes shouldn't have too many requirements knowing that gen defense perks are borderline useless. and in game where the survivors are bound to get on and off of gens it can be used as a proxy rather and not be too much an issue. maybe the same 5 second cool down though per each gen? or in general would be okay.
the locker perk i can see as being within conditions like being the obsession to balance it out and not ruin stealth gameplay and give too much away.
My main problem with the gen Perk is it's not a gen defense Perk at all but an information Perk. A very big part of this game is finding Survivors, that's why Aura reading perks and things like Whispers and Spies are used and why a lot of people suggest your Perk loadout always have at least one Info Perk of some kind. Having easy access to knowing what gen to head towards is huge and is one of the reasons Tinkerer is so strong. If it was only limited range than I think it would be fine, really strong if you could set up a good three-gen but rarely helpful on its own in the beginning and midgame.
As for the other one, I don't like super conditional Perks. If it only worked with the Obsession then as soon as they are dead you have an empty Perk slot for the rest of the trial. Or as soon as they work out you're always finding them when they enter a locker they stop doing that just like how a lot of Obsessions will try and body-block when you're running Save.
Being told when a Survivor enters a locker just seems really conditional and also shuts down some good plays like using Quick & Quiet, either by itself or along with Deception or just taking the risk and Iron Willing it out in a locker you slow entered after breaking line of sight. I find that if you really, really, really don't want Survivors to use lockers then Iron Maiden is more than enough.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2522669#Comment_2522669
probably, but i wouldn't want it to make wiggling even worse for survivors.
Buff Iron Grasp so that while a Survivor has less than 25% wiggle they can't be knocked off your shoulder via pallet stun. This would prevent stun drops when first picking up (unless Flip-Flop) and not interfere with Power Struggle as that kicks in at 25%. Give Killers more of a reason to run Iron Grasp and Survivors more of a reason to run Flip-Flop.
For the other two ideas, well, both of them would need to either have small ranges, somewhere in the 16-20m range, or have somewhat long cooldown. And #3 is a bit too close to Iron Maiden, and paired together you'd basically just prevent anyone from ever entering a locker ever so if you ran BBQ or were on Doctor it just cuts out a gameplay factor entirely which isn't a good thing.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
My solution wouldn't help save that much time, but I believe we need a surrender option at 10 minutes. That way, you can still keep your bloodpoints and leave without an escalating penalty.
That would be ideal for the higher rated players who run into cheaters more frequently, at least. It would also solve the hatch stand off problem too.
I like the idea of a "Surrender" option, because in addition to cheaters just not being fun to play against they can also lock the game so the Killer can't leave unless they DC and in one case my game crashed when I tried to do even that.
On another matter though, "hatch standoff"? That's not a thing any more, the Killer can close the Hatch if they find it first. Sure you may be worried about an Adrenaline play if they are wounded but if you're patrolling the exit gates that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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Also, another heads up, even though The Legion uses an M1 attack while in Feral Frenzy this DO NOT COUNT for the challenge. I found this out the hard way and brought it up in aftergame chat and one of the Survivors claimed to be a Legion main and had found out the same thing.
I don't remember who I wound up finishing this challenge with, but map offering are your friend here. Go into smaller maps, run as many info Perks as you can and don't worry too much about gen defense.
The sad thing about a lot of challenges is you basically have to ignore normal gameplay to get them. Combo King isn't really one of those but it's a bit awkward at times. Dark Devotion is fun with it though. Find the Obsession, hit them and go find someone else. It also gives you a 30 second clock so you have a somewhat better idea on when that 60 seconds is up.
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I've not spent any money since The Twins came out, I bought the All Kill characters with Shards and haven't bought the Resident Evil DLC.
I spend Auric Cells on The Rift Pass when I reach the level where I get it all back anyways and haven't bought any new Auric Cells since my initial purchase when I first started playing.
I am refusing to give them any more of my money until they start being more honest about things and doing actually good changes for game balance and performance and am encouraging other people to not spend any more money either.
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@shalo said:
I did it in a single match with Legion, I can't say for certain that Frenzy hits work with it, i got a lot of consecutive M1 hits that game.
Which is odd because I also tried it with Legion and it didn't count for me. I know for a fact I hit two different Survivors within 60s of each other more than four times that match. Someone in after game chat also had the same problem when I brought it up, as they claimed to be a Legion Main and had tried to same thing.
I I don't think I even ever M1ed outside of Feral Frenzy that game, maybe once or twice.
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@mexicowl said:
I agree from a killers perspective, occasionally I used to just say "If the dbd gods let you jump off this hook then I'll let you live." Who am I to deny a second life given from the gods? (If they jump off with deliverance which is shown by them being broken then its no longer the gods and instead a perk so they died anyway)
I just want to point out something that I myself forget every so often but there is another Perk that also gives the Broken status effect when coming off the hook: Second Wind. If you're not feeling charitable enough to give a Deliverance person the escape maybe give then half a minute and see if they heal? Personally if someone managed to evade me as Killer long enough to have Deliverance at the end of the match as the last person I'd still let them go anyways, because it means they did at least one unhook so weren't total no-shows for their teammates.
@kaeru said:
Hook stage is actually team asset. Effective way to escape with your team against good killer is share hooks. If there is no teammates left you no longer need hook stages.
It depends on how the game flows. I play Solo Q a lot, so no coms and while I try to run Perks like Bond and Empathy to be able to find and help other people I'm one of those people that cares about Prestige so I stop spending BP on characters when they hit Level 50 sub-3 Prestige so I don't have all Perks on everyone and as such can't always run the info Perks I want to.
This is a long way of saying that some games I personally just can't get out there and give up my hook states like I want to because Solo Q is a special kind of [bad place]. If the Meg who's dead-on-hook goes down on the other side of the map from me because she didn't stay on the gen were were working on there isn't much more I can do. And if you've got a hardcore tunneling Killer they will just ignore everyone else anyways to remove that one person from the game so even if you try and give up your hook states for your teammate the Killer won't take them.
But the game that drove me to finally post this topic was one I had against a Myers on Chapel. Not the best map for Myers, and this one seemed kinda new to the Killer. I was thinking he was a Mirror Myers because he never tiered up but no, just Earrings and Memo. Anyways, he gets no hooks all game and opens the door at the end and waits there. I wait a bit to see if he's going to leave but, nope, just standing there. He already hit me and I don't know where anyone else is so I don't take the run and instead go looking for the other door. While I'm looking everyone else gets out alive so I think other door is open. Find it and no dice, not even been touched and at this point I don't have enough time to open it myself so I go back to the first door. Mikey is still there and knocks me down as I come around the corner and hooks me, no chance of even getting close to getting out.
So, in scenarios like this, where no one had any chance of "giving" up hook states for a good reason the last person should be punished? Not even given their attempts because the Killer only ever got one hook at the very end after everyone else left and you were just unfortunate to not be able to get out before someone else?
@Raptorrotas said:
No.
It was removed because it wastes everyones time.
And if it was added back.... you'd either waste time or jump into the arms of the killer who knows you can still jump off and has no reason to leave.
As a Killer Main I'd like this to come back because it means I could get a second hook on someone who I would otherwise only get one from. Very likely though is they mange to jump off I'd actually let them go if there is enough time for them to get out.
But if you think one or two seconds is "wasted time" then we need to put conveyor belts on the floors of the Exit Gates that push Survivors out the door when they step inside of it so they can't "waste time" wanting around to be chased out by the Killer or get in some last second t-bags in. If everyone is healthy and just standing with their faces a gnat's breath away from the the escape line that's nothing but "wasted time" and is still in the game.