Just a reminder that dead hard shouldn't exist

Leachy_Jr

Dead hard hate thread number #26789745

Please bring the sprint burst meta, I don't care that SB is stronger id rather lose a game than have 4 people dead harding after I mindgame them.

Also bring back victor being able to hit mid dead hard.

Thanks.

Me? Nah would never be getting kicked after someone dead hards my pounce. Never. Couldn't be me.

SleepyWillo

I'm far happier to see 4 dead hards than 4 sprint burst! Lets keep it please and thanks!

Clevite

I say free yourself from the yoke of exhaustion perk dependence!

Mistakesweremade

@SleepyWillo said:

I'm far happier to see 4 dead hards than 4 sprint burst! Lets keep it please and thanks!

Hell no. Sprint burst does not give you bullshit invincibility.

Mr_K

@Mistakesweremade said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563311#Comment_2563311

Hell no. Sprint burst does not give you bullshit invincibility.

😒

About that

LordSturm

@Mr_K said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563323#Comment_2563323

😒

About that

Sprint Burst doesn't give you i-frames.

Bwsted

@Mistakesweremade said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563311#Comment_2563311

Hell no. Sprint burst does not give you bullshit invincibility.

If only the bullshit iframes actually worked.

Freddy96

Only if u bring back the bug where victor would get stuck in the ground for the rest of the trial

Mr_K

@LordSturm said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563326#Comment_2563326

Sprint Burst doesn't give you i-frames.

The way DBD handles hit detection, if you swing at a survivor that just increased speed, aim assist will move towards the survivor but will miss. This true for lithe as well.

Basically pseudo i-frames.

KingFieldShipper

These threads are so tiring.

You can't even get posters on here to agree how to even nerf it - they either think the i-frames are the issues, or distance. Remove either and it's useless. DH's i-frames rarely works, either you end up exhausted on the ground or you go down seconds after the killers cooldown. 4 sprint bursts are absolutely more terrifying than 4 dead hards. When SB inevitably comes meta if/when DH gets nerfed, then you get hit with 99'd sprint burst squad, you'll call for that to get nerfed, etc etc etc.

I play both sides and I really just don't give a ######### about DH for distance, nor do I care about the i-frames.

TeabaggingGhostface

What if dead hard gave endurance for like 3s, instead of dashing forward, so the killer and the survivor can both benefit from getting hit via certain perks like stbfl or mom

TeabaggingGhostface

Also my suggestion means no more dead harding over trapper traps

SabunoHakia

@Leachy_Jr said:

Dead hard hate thread number #26789745

Please bring the sprint burst meta, I don't care that SB is stronger id rather lose a game than have 4 people dead harding after I mindgame them.

Also bring back victor being able to hit mid dead hard.

Thanks.

Me? Nah would never be getting kicked after someone dead hards my pounce. Never. Couldn't be me.

Yeah, sprint burst where I either chase someone 3x longer or get a free hit on a failed DH or a perfect DH hit which comes a few seconds later, sprint burst causes me to be forced to give up a possible chase to go to someone else using spine and sprint constantly having a bad time. Yeah your a real killer main do you not get many sprint burst users?

SabunoHakia

@TeabaggingGhostface said:

Also my suggestion means no more dead harding over trapper traps

That shouldn't even be a thing.

SabunoHakia

@TeabaggingGhostface said:

What if dead hard gave endurance for like 3s, instead of dashing forward, so the killer and the survivor can both benefit from getting hit via certain perks like stbfl or mom

Endurance for 3 seconds so what your saying is dead hard + built in sprint burst combo? Oh hell. I'll just quit. Lol

SabunoHakia

@KingFieldShipper said:

These threads are so tiring.

You can't even get posters on here to agree how to even nerf it - they either think the i-frames are the issues, or distance. Remove either and it's useless. DH's i-frames rarely works, either you end up exhausted on the ground or you go down seconds after the killers cooldown. 4 sprint bursts are absolutely more terrifying than 4 dead hards. When SB inevitably comes meta if/when DH gets nerfed, then you get hit with 99'd sprint burst squad, you'll call for that to get nerfed, etc etc etc.

I play both sides and I really just don't give a ######### about DH for distance, nor do I care about the i-frames.

The only thing that would make anyone happy is the distance in which you dash is slightly reduced with a slightly higher cooldown, but the saddest thing is this perk never does anything for them when I just hit them a few seconds later due to catching up.

TeabaggingGhostface

@SabunoHakia said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563735#Comment_2563735

Endurance for 3 seconds so what your saying is dead hard + built in sprint burst combo? Oh hell. I'll just quit. Lol

Well maybe knock it down to 2s

MrCalac123

@KingFieldShipper said:

These threads are so tiring.

You can't even get posters on here to agree how to even nerf it - they either think the i-frames are the issues, or distance. Remove either and it's useless. DH's i-frames rarely works, either you end up exhausted on the ground or you go down seconds after the killers cooldown. 4 sprint bursts are absolutely more terrifying than 4 dead hards. When SB inevitably comes meta if/when DH gets nerfed, then you get hit with 99'd sprint burst squad, you'll call for that to get nerfed, etc etc etc.

I play both sides and I really just don't give a ######### about DH for distance, nor do I care about the i-frames.

Dead Hard's distance with no I frames is NOT useless lmao, that's still a massive chase extender if used properly

Bran

If people didn't need to rely on I frames removing the I frames wouldn't matter.

Do I also say remove unhook I frames 🤷

RenRen

Even though I'm reminded very often cause I literally see that perk every game thank you for the reminder.

Still don't understand how this perk still exists tbh.

Blazelski

@KingFieldShipper said:

These threads are so tiring.

You can't even get posters on here to agree how to even nerf it - they either think the i-frames are the issues, or distance. Remove either and it's useless. DH's i-frames rarely works, either you end up exhausted on the ground or you go down seconds after the killers cooldown. 4 sprint bursts are absolutely more terrifying than 4 dead hards. When SB inevitably comes meta if/when DH gets nerfed, then you get hit with 99'd sprint burst squad, you'll call for that to get nerfed, etc etc etc.

I play both sides and I really just don't give a ######### about DH for distance, nor do I care about the i-frames.

TBF anyone who is calling for Sprint Burst to be nerfed too are correct as well. They are both overpowered Exhaustion perks. The only difference is that Dead Hard is more annoying to most people. There are fair Exhaustion perks like Head On and Smash Hit and maybe even Balanced Landing and Lithe, but they mostly aren't used because why would you use something that's fair when there's OP perks you could use instead that also happen to literally be "fun on demand almost anytime."

Just because people can't agree on how to nerf something doesn't mean it doesn't need a nerf. People couldn't agree on how to nerf Decisive Strike and it was still definitely the right call to nerf it. People always have different opinions, doesn't mean that there isn't one out there worth listening to.

Freddy96

@Blazelski said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563726#Comment_2563726

TBF anyone who is calling for Sprint Burst to be nerfed too are correct as well. They are both overpowered Exhaustion perks. The only difference is that Dead Hard is more annoying to most people. There are fair Exhaustion perks like Head On and Smash Hit and maybe even Balanced Landing, but they aren't used because why would you use something that's fair when there's OP perks you could use instead that also happen to literally be "fun on demand almost anytime."

Just because people can't agree on how to nerf something doesn't mean it doesn't need a nerf. People couldn't agree on how to nerf Decisive Strike and it was still definitely the right call to nerf it. People always have different opinions, doesn't mean that there isn't one out there worth listening to.

Smash hit is the most useless exhaustion that ever existed and head on is a borderline meme perk.

The only decent exhaustion perk except sprint and dead hard is lithe but as all others it's rng dependant because goodluck using it on shelter woods with only c walls

Blazelski

@Freddy96 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564267#Comment_2564267

Smash hit is the most useless exhaustion that ever existed and head on is a borderline meme perk.

The only decent exhaustion perk except sprint and dead hard is lithe but as all others it's rng dependant because goodluck using it on shelter woods with only c walls

I think we have different opinions on how strong survivor perks should be. I think Exhaustion perks should be dependent on something, otherwise they are too strong (unless their potency was much less than it is). Sprint Burst and Dead Hard are more or less only dependent on you having the right keys on your keyboard.

NekoTorvic

Sprint burst makes it so that any killer that relies on standard M1s needs to spend upwards of 30 seconds catching up to a survivor before chase even starts mate. They're both horrendous perks that shouldn't exist imo.

landromat

@KingFieldShipper said:

These threads are so tiring.

You can't even get posters on here to agree how to even nerf it - they either think the i-frames are the issues, or distance. Remove either and it's useless. DH's i-frames rarely works, either you end up exhausted on the ground or you go down seconds after the killers cooldown. 4 sprint bursts are absolutely more terrifying than 4 dead hards. When SB inevitably comes meta if/when DH gets nerfed, then you get hit with 99'd sprint burst squad, you'll call for that to get nerfed, etc etc etc.

I play both sides and I really just don't give a ######### about DH for distance, nor do I care about the i-frames.

I play both sides too. dead hard is op

Canas

Dead Hard should disable the survivor's ability to interact with the environment (no vaults, no pallet drops, no gentapping) for 3 seconds after dashing, that way it would become somewhat balanced and survivors wouldn't exploit it to extend loops with after already making a mistake.

jesterkind

@Canas said:

Dead Hard should disable the survivor's ability to interact with the environment (no vaults, no pallet drops, no gentapping) for 3 seconds after dashing, that way it would become somewhat balanced and survivors wouldn't exploit it to extend loops with after already making a mistake.

Not a terrible suggestion, actually. It'd still be useful for dodging a hit, and it'd even still be useful for distance, but there'd be a bit more of a chance for a killer to get a hit if you use it that way.

Nathan13

@TeabaggingGhostface said:

Also my suggestion means no more dead harding over trapper traps

yeah I can't believe that's still a thing.

LordSturm

@KingFieldShipper said:

These threads are so tiring.

You can't even get posters on here to agree how to even nerf it - they either think the i-frames are the issues, or distance. Remove either and it's useless. DH's i-frames rarely works, either you end up exhausted on the ground or you go down seconds after the killers cooldown. 4 sprint bursts are absolutely more terrifying than 4 dead hards. When SB inevitably comes meta if/when DH gets nerfed, then you get hit with 99'd sprint burst squad, you'll call for that to get nerfed, etc etc etc.

I play both sides and I really just don't give a ######### about DH for distance, nor do I care about the i-frames.

1. Doesn't matter if people agree on how to nerf it, that's completely irrelevant. They're obviously agreeing it needs nerfed, because it does.
2. DH's i-frames work if you're good enough to use them, don't blame the game for your own mistakes.
3. Sprint Burst is OP too, so yes, that only makes sense.
4. "you'll call for that to get nerfed, etc etc etc" The same thing happens with survivors calling for every killer and killer perk to get nerfed, and again, it's only natural to focus on what is most offensive in terms of balance before moving on to the next thing that also isn't balanced.
5. If you don't give a ######### about DH either you enjoy losing or you aren't a high MMR killer, simple as that.

KingFieldShipper

My computer BSOD'd while working on two very long replies to my original comment, but oh well. I don't feel like typing it up again, sorry to my other responders.

@LordSturm said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2563726#Comment_2563726

1. Doesn't matter if people agree on how to nerf it, that's completely irrelevant. They're obviously agreeing it needs nerfed, because it does.
2. DH's i-frames work if you're good enough to use them, don't blame the game for your own mistakes.
3. Sprint Burst is OP too, so yes, that only makes sense.
4. "you'll call for that to get nerfed, etc etc etc" The same thing happens with survivors calling for every killer and killer perk to get nerfed, and again, it's only natural to focus on what is most offensive in terms of balance before moving on to the next thing that also isn't balanced.
5. If you don't give a ######### about DH either you enjoy losing or you aren't a high MMR killer, simple as that.

1. It does, though, with a caveat (at the end of this paragraph). Let's take DS, for example, got changed several times, and people still complain about it the healthiest it's ever been, and is still meta. The DS nerf was something I remember reading a lot of people suggest on the forums to make it true anti-tunnel/not as abusable, and was generally agreed upon. There are four different types of people; people who think DH is fine, people who think iframes are the issues, and then people who think distance is the issue, or both and call for the perk to be removed. We know they aren't going to remove a perk, I don't know what a rework would look like thematically with David, and regardless if they remove iframes or distance, it's still going to be called for nerfs. Although I agree, though, partially, because in a way it doesn't matter, no matter what BHVR does or doesn't do, everyone is just going to ######### about things (which I think you were talking about in #4, which I feel like you are accusing me of doing so)
2. I don't blame anything other than myself, when did I say otherwise? If I mistime a DH (which I don't use anymore because meta is boring), that's on me. This game is essentially punishing mistakes on both sides. That does not negate the fact that ping is a factor as well, leaving the time to properly time a DH slim, hence 'exhausted on the ground'. And if you dodge an attack with DH in a dead zone, you are still in a dead zone, and then you go down seconds after, which is what I was referring to in the first place.
3. I don't think DH or SB or OP. Frustrating sometimes, but not OP.
4. I feel like you are accusing me of being a survivor who complains for every killer perk to be nerfed, which I'm not. I don't complain about either, although I think the meta on both sides is boring. I don't think nerfing DH/UB/SB/Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer/*insert other meta perks here* are the right call, I want other perks on perks to be buffed so we see more variety or synergy, or have more than the same 4 perks every match.
5. Can saying stuff like this just like, stop? I don't know my mmr, and neither do you. This argument is irrelevant, but I get meta perks every match although the qualities of my killer matches vary. I still have fun, I don't take the game seriously and don't let perks ruin my day if I get outplayed and if I get frustrated I just take a break.

vladspellbinder

@Canas said:

Dead Hard should disable the survivor's ability to interact with the environment (no vaults, no pallet drops, no gentapping) for 3 seconds after dashing, that way it would become somewhat balanced and survivors wouldn't exploit it to extend loops with after already making a mistake.

This! My main problem with Dead Hard is that people will play fast and loose in chase, making suboptimal moves because they know they can just E to the pallet or window and then suddenly they start being much more careful and precise in their movements.

I find Dead Hard extremely not fun* to play around because of this, you can very clearly tell when someone has it because of how they play. If people didn't have the safety net of "Dead Hard to pallet and drop it" then they'd be forced to actually play well ALL the time and when the Survivors are playing well that is what makes for the fun chases.

Dead Hard for distance, to get into that TL tile, run around the outside NOW vault, great! We get some real chase and not just time wasted for your buddies to do gens. Almighty E to the pallet in the junk loop for an extra go round THEN drop it. Still annoying, I hate the "Run seven times then get hit anyways" meta when it comes to junk loops but still better than what we have right now.

I'm just so tried of seeing Dead Hard. I had a streak of fifty-two Killer games in a row (over a few days) with at least one in the lobby. I had one game without one and it was just so refreshing. I'm now on a twelve game streak with at least one Dead Hard in the lobby, with two games having four. I'm with the OP here and that I'd rather see 99ed Sprint Bursts than more Dead Hards.

*Dead Hard is easy enough to play around, yes, doesn't make it any more fun to do so though.