JasmineDragon
JasmineDragon
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I would put the rocket in the launcher, aim at the survs, and fire. I didn't build the dam thing, to make it work I just use it. What a silly question
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"Bone-Man Wraith". Been playing wraith at rank 1 since 2016 and it remains one of the most consistently oppressive builds Ive found for any killer.
Wraith has never had an issue with speed, ever. The recent speed buff is wholly unneeded and the existence of this build kinda proves it.
Add ons : Bone Clappers / The Ghost Soot.
The combination is the single strongest combination for wraith and no one will convince me otherwise. With the Bone Clappers, the survs do not know the direction of your bell or the distance. It is only a yellow add on, so its cheap and you have a mountain of them.
The Ghost Soot gives you no red stain or terror radius for 6 seconds after your uncloak.
What happens is, survs hear the bell in the distance, look around and see nothing, and then you action interrupt for free. In any given games I get no less than 4 action interrupts before they realize what is happening, and easy hits the rest of the game. The iri bell add on is great, but people instantly know you have it after the first time you uncloak. With this bell you get a similar effect without them having the information, making it objectively better in my opinion
Perks : Thrill of the hunt, devour hope, ruin, haunted ground.
This is where his speed comes into play. Even on the largest maps, he is fast enough to contest every gen and totem early game. If you can sneak in some early action interrupts, their ability to coordinate cleanses goes out the window. Leading to the most important part of this build
Wraith's greatest weakness has always been his second hit. You need to body block, and position well in advance to get your second hit off using wraith. Especially with a build like this, your first hit is particularly easy though. So you remove the issue entirely. 5 hex totems, with thrill of the hunt in play, is literally just meant to hide your devour. Its a shell game that you dont even allow them to play.
So we have a build that farms itself into a snowball quickly, applies pressure to the full map, removes your single weakness, and punishes literally any action the survs try to perform. It is so powerful and usually results in no gens being powered
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2142443#Comment_2142443
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/245629/why-romero-is-banned-from-the-chat
Psst!
Be careful or you might get banned here for bad language
/s
i mean I did :/
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@vladspellbinder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2132204#Comment_2132204
15, 30, 45, 60, 75, and 90. That's six. 100% is already a "check-point" so doesn't need to factor into things and as such doesn't really matter it's only 10% instead of another 15%. The top check-point below 100% probably wouldn't come into play all that often but it'd be there.
that would be seven, and still not even then... Obviously we are including the last check. If 0-15 is a checkpoint why would (whatever the last is)-100 not be one for these purposes? And that still leaves 10% sitting on the table, its uneven for no reason. Sure you can just put 5 extra on the start and end, OR, you just do 16.7. OR just 4 quarters :/
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@vladspellbinder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2129376#Comment_2129376
I've got all the set up for streaming on Twitch (sans face cam) and even not counting that have recording software. I just don't fire it up when I play because I'm playing for fun and the majority of matches I do play are not worth recording.
But every so often you have that one game where dumb and or insane things happen and you wish you had it recorded... .
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2129388#Comment_2129388
This is the first I'm hearing the "check point" idea. One thing to keep in mind is that new people are always coming into the game and onto the forums so ideas that are old hat to you are new to them. I only recently started the game, end of 2020, and have only been on the forums for a few months as of this posting so I'm trying to play catch-up on a lot of things.
I'm not really sure how I feel about having Ruin, even a weaker version of Ruin that stops at key points, being a base-kit sort of thing. It always feels bad as Survivor when you get a gen to the high 90% of completion and are then chased or, worse, grabbed, off of it and when you can finally get back around to the gen you find no other Survivor came by in the time you were gone and it's now either totally dead or in the low 20%. I've been there as Survivor. It makes me want to cry when it happens.
So if there were check-points there would need to be more of them and not less. Maybe something like every 15% was "banked" unless the gen was in "regression mode", which is either active Ruin or having been kicked and not repaired since the kick. It's easy enough to gain 15% and being caught out between those marks won't feel as bad when you can get back to the gen as Survivor. It's also give Killers a bit more reason to kick a gen after downing someone, because if you can get it under one of the check-points before another Survivor comes along and then bother that gen again once they you get more regression.
The only issue when it comes to having check-points is how it would interact with Surveillance. Maybe add in a fourth color for when a gen hits a check-point instead of regression being stopped by a Survivor? I'm not sure if they go from white to red if they hit zero or not or if they hit yellow for a moment before going back to red. Maybe when it hits the check-point it just goes right back to red without having been yellow. Bit of an odd duck.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2129599#Comment_2129599
The repair speed hinderance shouldn't be too high, and I think 30% is just too high. The point isn't to prevent Survivors from repairing gens early to but make the game more fun both both sides. Also I think the main two conditions should be either to escape a chase or change health states. so if the Killer finds you and they either choose not to chase you or do chase you and you slip away you're no longer hindered. It's basically to same as having started the chase but doesn't take into effect until the chase is over.
And really almost anything that gets people to Do The [bad word]ing Bones is a win in my book. Helps me as Survivor, fewer chances for NOED, and helps me as Killer, keeps them off gens for some time.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2130010#Comment_2130010
When I play Survivor I'm pretty much always playing Solo, very rarely do I ever get to play in a SWF. I'm often teamed up with two and three person SWFs though. You are ignoring that if you do anything to a less than four man SWF you'll be hurting Solo players.
I consider myself to be a Killer Main, for every Survivor game I play I play maybe five or six Killer games. Having said that I still say that we shouldn't try and nerf SWF but instead should in some way buff Solo. And then once Solo is on-par with SWF and Killers are starting to underperform then we buff Killers. At no point in time should there ever been a penalty for playing with your friends. For every team of four de-pip squad hard-core gen-rushers out there there are many more teams of four friends who just want to casually enjoy their game of cat-and-mouse together with someone they don't know as the Killer. There is no way for the game to tell two groups apart so anything you do to one will impact the other and make it less fun for the casual people.
And if I haven't made it clear yet my whole goal is the make the game the most fun it can be for everyone. I know you can't totally please everyone but you can make it so that there more people that are happy than there are people that are unhappy, and punishing you for playing with your friends isn't the way to make people happy.
Unless they are the sort of people who like that sort of thing that is. Which I play Dark Souls so... .
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2130286#Comment_2130286
In my example game on this very post I have that exact scenario you talk about early in the game. Getting the Tinkerer proc and bothering two people on a gen, hitting one before looping back to the other person to chase that person off as well and getting a hit. That gen didn't get finished until later in the game. Ruin did it's job and I did mine. I was putting pressure on people to give Ruin time to work. I wasn't always bothering two people at once but I was constantly in chase and I was getting hooks often enough that it didn't feel too bad. At many points I knew where three or all of them were at because of various reasons and most of those times the answer could be summed up as "Not on a gen".
Ruin didn't go down until three gens had been finished, and by that time I had single hooked everyone, second hooked one person (who was saved in the middle of ->) and was in chase with a third who I'd already injured and was in a good position to down because they were in a dead zone.
My problem was that I felt like I was applying decent pressure and gen were still getting finished so fast. There never seemed to be any time only one Survivor was working on a gen, it was always at least two people, so I was really sure it was Prove Thyself but it wasn't.
I will freely admit I'm not the best Killer player, and that I have a lot to learn and get better at. But saying basically nothing more than "Apply more pressure" is not constructive advice. How can I apply more pressure? Without tunneling someone out of the game how can you apply more pressure when there is only one of you and four of them? Slug? Because the answer always seems to come back around to either tunneling or slugging and I don't normally do the former unless someone has been toxic and I don't do the later for a 4k but will do it sometimes to slow things down a bit.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2130515#Comment_2130515
A minute is a long time in this game and 50% is super punishing AND being Oblivious is basically a free hook to every Killer ever, the only reason it's not broken on Nightmare is because of the kid's song. If this was done only the extreme masochists would ever play Survivor and that'd kill the game more than the lack of Killer Players ever would.
Being hooked should already be punishment enough for getting caught, no reason to slap on a repair penalty as well. And, again, a minute is a really long time in this game. The Haste effect is also better than D.S. and is really what D.S. wants to be: true anti-tunnel. You can't get tunneled if the Killer can't catch you after all.
If you gave Survivors a reward for others dying it would encourage them to be less helpful to the teammates while at the same time also encouraging Killers to slug more often. While the idea seems nice at first glance it isn't in-line with what is intended to be normal gameplay.
I'm all for adding to base-kit gen kicking. 2.5% is really reasonable, I normally say maybe 1 or 2 personally but 2.5 isn't a bad idea. But this topic isn't about base-kit kicking or regression, no matter how many people keep bringing it up. If you have an active Ruin the whole game kicking never comes into play.
If this was done then everyone would switch to using Brand New Parts the way I use Brand New Parts: for the last 25% of the gen, making it pointless. I pretty much always wait to use my toolbox to finish a gen, this includes when I run B.N.P. so making it highlight a gen does nothing to it, unless you also add that it can only be used on a gen under 50% or something like that, which would be a big nerf.
I don't mean to be mean and just shoot down all of your ideas but my goal is to make the game more fun for both sides, not just for Killer. While it most likely won't be possible to make things fun for Killer without making them harder on Survivors in some way there should be something that can be done to make it at least some what more fun and interaction on the Survivor side. Just slapping penalties on them is neither fun nor interactive.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2130540#Comment_2130540
Lack of mobility with stupid large maps. I was playing a slow Killer as well so "lack of mobility" was probably a key factor in why the gens felt like they went by so fast.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2130572#Comment_2130572
I'd rather not get quick time events please. They are one of the things that is putting me off of Home Sweet Home: Survive. I don't mind skill checks because it's the same key every time and you get a good warning. Having to worry about what key to hit is what annoys me about Q.T.E.s and what H.S.H.:S. has going for it, being either "Q" or "E" is not fun to me.
I'd be all for adding more skill-check to gens, but have it so that only a few of them have the "Great" area on them, being more like an Overcharge check or an Autodidact one. Because if they are just base skill-checks having more of them would defeat the purpose because good Survivors can hit that "Great" more often than not and those 1% jumps add up over time. This would interact oddly with Stake Out but it could be changed to say like "for checks with a Great area Good" or something.
I mean 6 check points would be every 16.6%, which is pretty close to 15 as is. Every 15% wouldnt be a round number of checkpoints
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This has been said for a very long time, but give gens either 4 or 6 check points. When a surv leaves a gen it begins regressing to the most recent check point. When a killer kicks a gen it begins regressing normally. This prevents gen tapping and rewards pressure
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2111353#Comment_2111353
This argument is inherently stupid in itself.
He fits almost all the themes of a killer from Dead by daylight his backstory his overall all audio and aesthetic fit into what the game is.
I prefer you make a killer that works with the feeling that you're going for as opposed to just sticking in some random big demon creature that is brand as hell. Because it fits more
Michael Myers is legitimately a lanky guy in a jumpsuit and a plain mask however what makes him feel like a good killer it's because it's blank his look is plain it fits into the theme of there being nothing there no emotion no real person behind it's just evil personified so the plain blank and assuming look fits in very well.
The Legion is meant to fit into the mentality that anybody can be a killer and you wouldn't know. People who seem normal on the surface can possibly be hiding dark intentions within them all those dark intentions or those dark intentions can easily be grown and manifested by somebody.
Legion looking close to normal survivors just with the masks that hide who they truly are really fit in with the character then normal teenagers Frank just turned them dark or darker than they already were.
Aesthetically speaking trickster hits the theme of a Killer artist perfectly from his backstory to his design and as well as his audio and more.
So yes he fits the theme of a dead by daylight killer if you're going to be super narrow-minded about it and complain that he doesn't fit because he know big monster then yeah but he definitely fit.
He doesnt fit because he isn't a slasher killer, hes psych horror. I went into this in super detail in this thread and I said Im not going into it again. If you want to see my point, its there in excruciating detail.
I also need to say in regards to this "Aesthetically speaking trickster hits the theme of a Killer artist perfectly from his backstory to his design and as well as his audio and more."
Lets talk about design then.
He threw knives as a kid.
He was a kpop star
He lured people in and drugged them to then disembowel them
He let his friends burn to death
In game he looks like a Kpop star
In game he throws knives
So his power has nothing to do with his profession, his means of killing, his pertinent story, are all irrelevant to his in game power. Literally anyone can just tag on "they threw knives as a kid" and have the same effect.
In life, he was a kpop star. His outfit resembles, nothing, it signifies nothing. Its literally just him, just dressed in his normal outfit.
So you have a power unrelated to his identity entirely, and an outfit that, while striking, IS just a normal guy wearing his normal clothes with nothing special about them.
He is objectively poorly designed from every thematic avenue.
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@aroell said:
Why not? It’s a very unpleasant experience. I also have every right to complain.
because mathematically, if the killer waits you out, and the survs are all on gens, the rest of them should get out for free at the cost of you sitting there
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the best option Ive seen is that each light is a stage of progress. Each light is a quarter, then you open it. If you let go it regresses back to the last check point. This would mean you can get a gate to 75, but youd need to tap it to keep it 99ed
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@Itslat3ncy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2113299#Comment_2113299
No it's not bait. I do find it to be an issue, and glad more pigs dont do it because it's boring.
you can still be in chase while crouched, it just makes it easier to follow people without being in chase for the sake of sneak attacks
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@DoritoHead said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you get in a chase if you're undetectable as killer? The timer only pauses in a chase, correct?
This is a bait post, and a poorly done one at that.
(or my memory is just trash)
correct, this is bait
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Ive already gone into excessive detail explaining the differences in theming present here in another chain in this thread, Im not getting into this again.
But then you must have an irrational fear of kpop stars, because this is legit just one of the edgier ones with a small amount of fake blood on his face and chest, something they already have done for aesthetic purposes. A bright, open outfit that exposes a lot of skin is inherently designed to be attractive and pleasant, by design. Its an inherent problem when you are trying to make something universally threatening on sight
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2111260#Comment_2111260
For people that don't like persons who are different it may be out of place in the game. For me he fulfills every condition to be a killer in dbd..
I think the ones that thinks this killer don't fit here are the same people that treated rockstars in the past as satanist and effeminate for leaving their hair long and using makeup. Sinceraly this thoughts needs to go away, its time to evolve since discrimination doesn't do any good to the world.
what are you even trying to say,,, Im literally saying nothing about kpop, literally at all? Im just saying this is something a kpop artist would wear, because it is literally designed to be? The problem is he doesn't look like a killer, he literally just looks like a person dressed in an edgier kpop style. Thats not speaking poorly of kpop or anything related to it
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@Irisora said:
He looks quite like a psychopath to me, especially with his p3 outfit. I'll definitely run from him.. I don't understand the ones that say he doesn't fit in dbd.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CRH3XN9EFZEY/20210414215226-1.jpg
because at the end of the day, he just looks like a kpop musician. An edgier one maybe, but hes just a guy. The unusual parts about him are normal for a flashy kpop costume. Hes not an accountant dressed liek this.
But ALL that aside, you can't see why someone wouldnt want an attractive, neon guy in a clashing outfit with blow dried hair, color contacts and lavender highlights as a killer?
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@DeadHardMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2110512#Comment_2110512
Listen, this is clearly going nowhere. Either way, Tricky Boi and his flashy neon is here to stay and there's nothing you can do about it.
As for Hannibal being in the game. I mean... you said it yourself describing Pyramid Head:
"Pyramid head needed a gameplay analog that was reasonable, but he's still a SERIOUS character of menace, not psych horror in the games. I understand that the multiple interactions you have with him are suspenseful, but not only does he show you early on that he is menacing through his actions, but hes a giant jacked, gray skinned, blood soaked, monster who can wield a giant pyramid and sword. He inherently has menace from design, a point I made from the start, because of his design he already succeeds at seeming inherently threatening."
You say that an old man running around chasing Survivors doesn't make any sense but like PH, BHVR can give him a power that can fit with him aesthetically. Why not give him a power that can psychologically affect Survivors?
You seeing PH as threatening is entirely subjective. Others can see Pyramid Head as non-threatening but see Trickster as unnerving and terrifying. It all comes down to personal taste in the end. This is going nowhere so let's just end it here, ok?
"You seeing PH as threatening is entirely subjective. Others can see Pyramid Head as non-threatening but see Trickster as unnerving and terrifying. It all comes down to personal taste in the end" No... inherently, a giant monster who has super human strength is inherently menacing. A kpop star or old man is not. Ive said nothing subjective this entire time, Im talking about genres and what makes them up. You can like whatever you like, that is subjective. But when I respond to every single thing you have to bring up, respectfully and in detail, and your only response is to try to find another angle or say "its subjective" to anything, then it feels like you just want to be right in an argument because you care about the character. There is no part of the character I dont personally like. Musicians can have great motivation, knife throwing is cool, the lore concept is really interesting. Its just not implemented in a thematically relevant way.
But if we are at the point where you are trying to say that Pyramid head could be seen as non threatening or not menacing, then you really don't care about logic, youre too obsessed with being right. Personal taste has nothing to do with understanding the genres, the precedents, the theming, or even logic (8 foot tall metal man with sword vs frail old man is not a logical quandary). If we're done here, we're done here. But don't try defending this mess of a character if you are only doing so because you like him. At least don't try to say that its okay to shift the entire genre of the game to fit him without a single reason why...
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@DeadHardMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2110104#Comment_2110104
Except in this very game, Pyramid Head is not a killer who runs very quickly and leave trenches, not to mention he can only exist to James Sunderlund. BHR can take liberties with their licenses, if they wanted, they can have Hannibal in as a crazed psycho who runs and slashes if they wanted. I get it, you clearly love horror and its subgenres, but BHR's game is about Horror and ALL its elements.
And with the whole "old man running and killing". Really? With that logic, David, Ashe, and Cheryl should be able to beat up all the Legion members, Trickster, Clown, Hag, etc.
I already mentioned that most people agree the legion were a let down. I dont know how anyone is beating up a 500 pound, 7 foot tall clown, and the hag is clearly super natural at least, like sure freddy is just some guy but hes also a demon so they kinda get a pass on the stature argument.
But you keep saying dbd is about all horror and that just isnt true. All of their killers (and please correct me if you disagree because I very much dont see the argument against this), follow the slasher model in lore and gameplay.
Pyramid head needed a gameplay analog that was reasonable, but he's still a SERIOUS character of menace, not psych horror in the games. I understand that the multiple interactions you have with him are suspenseful, but not only does he show you early on that he is menacing through his actions, but hes a giant jacked, gray skinned, blood soaked, monster who can wield a giant pyramid and sword. He inherently has menace from design, a point I made from the start, because of his design he already succeeds at seeming inherently threatening.
And once again on the hanible aspect, yes they COULD make him do whatever they wanted, but it would not only make no sense for an old man to do so, it would not only make no sense from a lore standpoint, it would betray the franchise and the purpose of the character. Saying "DBD can do whatever they want" doesn't change the patterns and themes they've left present. They COULD add a pink pony covered in glitter, but it wouldnt make sense in game for something colorful and bright and happy to be trying to kill people, and from the lore associated with a pink pony it wouldnt be expected to kill. Lector could be a great villain in a psychological horror game, because that is his genre, its what he does. But if the gameplay of dbd is as Ive said, an active, action based, fast and reactive environment, that is slasher horror, not psychological horror. It IS a different genre.
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@DeadHardMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2109911#Comment_2109911
You STILL don't get it, do you?
It doesn't matter if you call Trickster psychological "horror" and that he doesn't fit "slasher", he's still horror.
What I'm trying to say is that the VISUAL APPEARANCE alone shouldn't determine if a Killer is "horror" or not. You say Hannibal Lecter can't fit because he's "an old man with no context". That is absolutely not true. Hannibal has proven time and time again he is a merciless and psychotic killer JUST like Trickster. Hannibal Lecter can perfectly fit in with the rest of the cast BECAUSE he's a KILLER. Every Killer in the game has a messed up background and committed terrible acts. That's what qualifies as Killer not how a Killer's appearance matches YOUR idea of what a Killer should look like.
you are ignoring like three paragraphs of explanation. Dead by daylight is a slasher horror game. The gameplay, the mechanics, even the base character load outs. Horror is such a huge classification. DBD doesnt have hannibal lecter, or norman bates, or any other psychological horror character because it is based on the slasher horror genre. Slasher horror is essentially a genre of action horror movies. The motivations are active, the fear based on menace. I explained the differences in great detail. Nascar and formula 1 are both racing, they both have their draws and purposes, but they are not inherently compatible.
Is hannibal lecter someone who kills? Yes. Is silence of the lambs horror? Yes. Is he someone who is going to chase you down in the street, over power you, and disembowel you and 20 of your friends because he's a monster? No. He isn't Jason, he isn't ghost face, he isn't here to slash and maime, and that isnt what is IP is about. Its about terror, suspense, it is, as Ive been saying, psychological horror. The fear does not come from active interaction, it comes from suspense.
Like at this point every time I get in a discussion about this the people defending the trickster's appearance don't understand that horror doesn't just mean any scary movie. It has genres and subgenres. It has purposes and directives. Its not this big blanket of horror. And maybe you didn't grow up watching all of these different branches of the types of media and you just want to play a game based on them, but that doesnt mean you understand the history behind these themes and the precedent they set. It would be like calling twisted sister and Alice Cooper the same type of musical artists. I mean yea, they both did rock, they were both around the same time period, but they are entirely different genres of the medium. You can like both, but here is something very base line you are missing here
And just to reiterate one last time, of course hannibal wouldnt fit here. And old man chasing down people in their 20s and trying to overpower them just does not make sense. It would betray his character, his lore. Despite just being impossible... That was the point I was making, he is psych horror, he is a legend in the medium, but he isnt slasher, and calling him that is an insult to his character
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@DeadHardMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2109553#Comment_2109553
Reread my last paragraph veeeeerrrrryyyyy sloooooooowwwllllyy. Then come back with a better response.
My guy I addressed every ######### sentence with its own paragraph.
"Why not just a guy" : Two paragraphs on why that defines psychological horror and why the elements of psych horror do not fit. That is why I referenced hannibal lecter and the invisible man
"Why does this not fit into horror" : I explained that this is psych horror and why it is psych horror, and why dbd is slasher horror. They are different genres of horror
You referenced the history being what makes them important, I responded by saying the history, lore, design, and abilities are all disjointed and unrelated.
Dude what part of ANY of what you said, did I not address in excruciating detail??? Literally find one sentence in anything you said that I didnt address
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@DeadHardMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2109338#Comment_2109338
You did post images, they just didn't go through.
Why are you keep bringing up psychological horror? This is horror, psychological horror is a subgenre of the horror. If Trickster gives you that kind of vibe, that's entirely on you. My point is that a horror character is built on the idea of menace, cruelty, and destruction. I don't about you, but Trickster seems to encapsulate that idea just like the rest of the roster.
Your point on making him a menace by "dehumanizing" him is understandable but is also unsubstantiated and irrelevant. Why? Because like I said a thousand times before, a killer does not need too look like some eldritch being or a creepy-pasta villain or a "dude in a mask". Ultimately, the personality and the history behind the character is what makes them qualify as Killer. I don't like his default design too but only because it lacks more varied visual elements but I can still respect BHR for adding a more "human" looking Killer.
I mean really it's all subjective in the end but stating that a design like Trickster objectively CAN'T fit in a horror game is complete nonsense. God forbid they add a more human looking Killer in this game oh wait Deathslinger, Clown, Legion exist.
The point Im making is in lore and by design, he is meant to be a psychological horror killer. Every other killer in dbd has been a Slasher Horror killer, with no exceptions. Even the pig, based on amanda young for the psychological horror "Saw" is treated as a slasher killer in their lore and design, saying Amanda just wants to kill people in a deranged form of her SAW 3 character.
If hes just going to look like a guy, and his lore says that his scary aspects come from a psychological horror aspect and plot scheme, then that is kinda how we have to address him, because thats what he is? You can't just add hanible lecter and say "but he was scary, why does there need to be more about him?" Well hes just an old man with no context... Dehumanizing a slasher villain is important so they dont just seem like a person. Being a 9 foot monster does that automatically, being deformed like the blight does that automatically, wearing a mask and dark clothes (while the cheapest option), still inherently does this.
Psychological horror is horror, but if you want to take the face value pieces of a character that is designed in this way and call it scary, that won't work, because those aren't the aspects that were designed to be scary. He is BY DESIGN, meant to look non threatening. So if a barbie doll was 6 feet tall and started murdering people, yes that could still be horror, but transplanting her into an environment where the prerequisites to make a barbie doll scary have not been set, then there is no fear associated with them.
I shouldn't have to explain why the trickster isn't a slasher killer, that was never a trick question. He is literally a generic psych horror trope. Thats not the part that we should be debating because it isn't an arguable part of the conversation, its inherent to his character. What we need to be arguing is does the traits applied to the character visually and cosmetically fit in adapting this killer into the world, and the answer really is no, in every metric.
Okay so he likes killing, great. Thats why he kills in game so willingly, he wanted to any way. But he wanted to to make music? Something not even touched upon in the gameplay at all. What do the knives have to do with his character? He used them as a kid and thats it. What does his bright outfit have to do with him? He used it to lore people in to be tortured. An aspect that once again, is not in any way translated into the game. So his entire backstory and psych horror themes are ignored entirely in gameplay, so we lose those avenues. All we have now is a brightly colored person who looks visually pleasing, does not maintain even a single one of his thematic reasons to be seen as scary or threatening, and who is literally just some guy who wants to kill. People gave the legion ######### for not being visually threatening or capable of fighting like David King or Bill, but at least they looked threatening, so thats at least something?
The only thing making him a trickster here is that he has the lore of a psych horror character, the outfit and design that serves no purpose despite inherently making him less threatening and thematically relevant, and an ability irrelevant to both.
If the reason he looks this way isn't relevant to how he acts, and the things he does are not relevant to his lore or design, why not just make him some deranged knife throwing acrobat or something... Just everything from a lore and design aspect clashes, and at least making him look threatening wouldn't betray the slasher horror themes dbd has always held
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@Blue_Archer33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2106937#Comment_2106937
Love this. But people in this fanbase don't want to wrap their heads around the fact that a "realistic," "handsome villain" has a place alongside horror icons, "grotesque monsters" and unnerving characters in this game of ultimate horror mashup.
- every killer ever added is either a slasher villain or inspired by a slasher vilain
"tHiS hOrRoR mAsHuP"
You could argue the pig isnt a slasher killer but they really don't incorporate the psychological aspect of the killer in literally every capacity. They gave amanda John's retractable blade, and she puts the iconic bear trap on people hoping they die. They literally took the one psychological horror killer in the entire game and turned them into a slasher villain in gameplay AND lore to fit the theme :/
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@DeadHardMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2107497#Comment_2107497
First off, your images didn't upload, maybe reupload them?
DBD is a horror-themed game. Your idea of horror can be completely different from someone else's. The requirements of adding a new original Killer is their dark history: committing murders, tortures, etc. This doesn't necessarily have to be shown visually on the actual character.
Horror can be shown in a variety of different ways, it does NOT have to be shown in a grotesque or ugly way. Deathslinger and Clown aren't even that mutated or even wear a mask just like Trickster and yet they still fit that dark and grim horror theme.
Why not include a killer who is flamboyant, neon, and visually human? If the killer is a KPOP psychopathic serial killer , why not include him?
Ask yourself this. What make a horror character, horror? What constitutes as horror? Is it just how "ugly" and "creepy" they look? Perhaps there's more to it than just visuals, eh?
I didn't post an image here, so not sure what you are referencing, but I addressed this already. But to restate whats bit said since the first teasers, psychological horror is wonderful. It is some of the strongest and most intrinsically fear inducing genres we have left, as we get desensitized to random brutal murderers and monsters. Hell its not even a new concept, silence of the lambs, psycho, and even modern movies like the invisible man remake aren't necessarily focused on the abilities of someone, but what they do with what is at their disposal, and what they have the potential to do. The concept of the trickster works fine as a horror icon, someone using their influence for predatory purposes is actually really topical as well. So what is the problem with the trickster in dbd? Why do we have this huge issue with him being this neon kpop star? I already said it in the post chain but sure Ill note it again
Psychological horror is built entirely on two things, suspense and the unknown. Minor spoilers for the invisible man as a heads up, but its just a great recent example. At first we are not even sure if he's real or just her psychoses. For the first third of the run time we do not know the nature of the threat to begin with. As we become more sure that she isn't just crazy, we have to ask what he is willing to do, how far will he go? He stalks her, he tries to make people believe she is insane, make others think shes insane. It draws out slowly, methodically picking her apart over weeks and months, until he finally murders, right in the middle of a crowded area. Everyone I was with jumped out of their seats, it was so unexpected, the stakes elevated instantly and the shock was actually a scary and unexpected interaction. From then on we only have more unknowns, but all predicated on this man who has no limits and will do whatever he wants to achieve his goal, which now on the back end of the run time, we are still not aware of. This is psychological horror. Every interaction is drawn out, we are taken on this journey through the lens of the protagonist. That is the suspense. But then even when the stakes are rising at each major plot point, we still do not know what they are doing, we don't feel like we have control because the protagonist has no control. That is the unknown, what is going on, what can possibly be done to protect ourselves?
Neither of the two primary aspects of psychological horror CAN transfer to this setting, its just not possible in dbd.
- Suspense. Well while killers like ghost face, hag, trapper, myers and even plague will often begin setting up traps through positioning and actual traps, giving some form of progression and sense of suspense as the match unfolds, it will never be constant, it will always turn into an active chase, not a passive building up of fear. In this way, in which the game is constantly in an active state of interaction, there can never really be suspense
- Unknown. This is by far the biggest issue. There is no "how far will they go?" there is no "what are they capable of?", you know exactly how far they can and will go. They will try to find you, they will try to down you, they will hook you 3 times. That is what they can and will do, always. You know what they can do, billy and bubba have a chainsaw that down you. Wraith will go invisible. Huntress can throw things. Knowing the capabilities of the killer inherently take away the unknown. They can provide menace, a factor relevant in slasher movies. Menace being the fear of the known, seeing what someone has done, and therefore knowing what they can do. You saw Michael Myers pick up someone with one hand, and carve his chest out, so you run from him because of his menace, you run because you know he can pick you up, and carve your chest out. Its a different type of fear, a fear that dbd has always used. An earned fear of a dangerous threat.
This is why people don't want this neon hot guy as a killer. At least not alone. There are so many easy ways to give him menace, to dehumanize a character. A mask is the first and easiest way, which is why 90% of the characters have some kind of mask or facial deformity. But you want his pretty boy face, okay fine, no mask. You can look at the things that made him less than human. He let his band die in a horrible fire. Burn his clothes, a LOT. Char up his coat, maybe burn some of his flesh or part of his face. This gives a great excuse to provide dark tones to his otherwise colorful uniform. Still dont like that? Give him more blood, more stains on his jacket, maybe some open wounds or deformities from traversing the entity's realm, spikes and chains are not so out of place in kpop that making them a part of his flesh or body would be unreasonable. But the biggest thing is just, make the neon outfit an alternate outfit and no one complains. If his stage attire is just not the base outfit, thats fine, its a cosmetic, no one would really care that much so long as the base character fits the aesthetic of dbd.
DBD themselves are kinda forgetting the reason the game was popular, it was dark and gritty like a classic slasher, that is their audience. These brighter maps and textures really just don't hold up...
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@RileyTheWolf said:
The worst part is, these people try to say "He ruins the horror aesthetic" while also COMPLETELY IGNORING THE FUNNY KILLER/SURVIVOR SKINS
No one thought the bunny skins were good, the "cute" stuff like The pink elephant still have grotesque body hair and proportions and unsettling design elements. I don't see anyone using dwelf skins, ever. I feel like this is a bit of a straw man a lot of people use? The fact that non horror elements exist in the game, is okay if used sparingly. The issue is that the base version of this killer does not in any way seem threatening. And psychological horror does not work if there is no suspense or sense of unknown. There is no suspense, he's immediately coming after you. There is no unknown, it is a kid trying to hook and kill you. How far will he go, what is he willing to do, how will he subvert my expectations??? He won't, he's just going to try to kill you. Calling him a "psychological horror" killer doesn't work if he acts literally exactly the same as the other killers. Its not even an argument
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@shinymon said:
He's a lot more threatening than the Legion will ever hope to be.
Yea but no one respects legion either. They get the same "David could totally beat them up" treatment. Pointing out a known issue doesn't make this better.
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"WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR SOME PEOPLE TO GRASP THAT TRICKSTER DOESN'T NEED TO "LOOK LIKE A KILLER"?"
The Killers are Characters in Dead by Daylight . 1 Overview 2 List of Killers 3 List of Killer Powers 4 List of Killer Perks 5 Trivia It is highly recommended to thoroughly read up on both Killers and Survivors to fully understand both sides. For tips on playing Killer, please refer to this section of the Wiki: Playing Killer: Tips and Tricks The Killers have been tasked by The Entity to hunt down and sacrifice every Survivor before they can escape. In order to achieve this objective, a Killer sEvan MacMillan - Trapper
Philip Ojomo - Wraith
Max Thompson Jr. - Hillbilly
Sally Smithson - Nurse
Michael Myers - Shape
Lisa Sherwood - Hag
Herman Carter - Doctor
Anna - Huntress
Bubba Sawyer - Cannibal
Freddy Krueger - Nightmare
Amanda Young - Pig
Jeffrey Hawk - Clown
Rin Yamaoka - Spirit
Frank, Julie, Susie, Joey - Legion
Adiris - Plague
Danny Johnson - Ghost Face
Demogorgon - Demogorgon
Kazan Yamaoka - Oni
Caleb Quinn - Deathslinger
Pyramid Head - Executioner
Talbot Grimes - Blight
Victor & Charlotte Deshayes - Twins
Ji-Woon Hak - Trickster
You are... SO close, to understanding this one. Like I feel like you're RIGHT THERE, on the edge of understanding this one. And yet....
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@Firellius said:
It literally only worked for me in a match against a clown where I had direct visual on him. Premonition's trigger angle is extremely wide, so I would often just point randomly, and the quest just wouldn't trigger.
It requires a hell of a lot of luck. You need to have visual on the killer without him or her seeing you. And then hope you can milk that for two in a row. It's a terrible challenge, and another 'throw the game' kind of thing, since Premonition is utterly pointless.
wait so it doesnt work if the killer can see you? Doesn't that kinda defeat the point of the name "Thats Rude"? I thought the point was it would look like you were taunting him. Thats going to be a pain but thanks!
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@Brub said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/241475/thats-rude
it worked for me after an hour of trying. The thing I was doing wrong is the 5 seconds window is counting the whole animation. So you have to actually start the point animation about 2 seconds after the notification. and Make sure your doing the full animation not ending it early. Nothing much I can say tbh this helped for me.
oh so I was actually doing it TOO fast? Thats crazy. Considering how long the animations were I was trying to make sure I fit them all in the window of time it gave you, thanks!
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at rank 1 you dont even use bbq to know where people are, I want to know where they ARENT. I want to know how many people are near where Im hooking, If I see 2-3 people on one gen there is no point in pressuring it, the gen will be done by the time I can get there, my objective is now set up and interception half way between the hook and gen, forcing them to spread wide around me on their way to the hook, allowing me to apply pressure to the group because I know they wont be slipping past me. If I see 0-1 aura I know most people are near me, I check the local gens, then go off and patrol if none of them are close to finished. If I do see all 3 people, just hanging around in different corners of the map, Im not b lining it to anyone, by the time I get there theyd likely be long gone or hiding, it wastes far too much time. It tells me that I have plenty of time before they unhook this person and to begin my patrol rotation. No decent player is using bbq to find their next target in most situations, it happens but its rare. Honestly its primarily used for bp first, and a means of getting general knowledge if you really havent been paying attention
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better =/= good
you could play him well before but his issues are all still there, theres just been a bit of a bandaid fix
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@Mikeasaurus said:
The rift is designed so you need 1 level per day. 70 days - 70 levels. If you miss a few days it's not too bad to catch up but miss a couple weeks and you'll struggle to play catch up even with challenges from the tomes.
you say that but if youve finished all the tomes its 3-4 hours of grinding per level. If youre even just 6 days behind thats 24 full hours of play time to make up. If it were calculated for 1 hour of playtime (3-4 games) or even 2 hours of playtime (4-8 games) per level, that would be tough, but doable. As it stands, seeing as rift fragments pay for about 35 levels, you should expect to have to put in 140 full hours in? Thats insane
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2080790#Comment_2080790
The green Hag vein thing from the battlepass does not have a head because they forgot to add it, it was added in the battlepass after. When you pick the outfit from the outfit menu button you don't get a head, and the icon is also shown shown without it.
Myers hospital gown outfit also does not have a head.
I was going to say that they likely added the head to this outfit because that way they can remove the glasses, as wearing glasses while doing some kind of fighting sport is a really bad idea and the default heads all have glasses. The only problem is that this outfit also has the glasses, so that's great.
So remember: If you are a botanist and are about to fight someone, absolutely wear your glasses and not contact lenses. The glasses will protect your eyes from the attacks of your opponents!
killers don't have bottoms though. Its a head piece and a body. There are some outfits that are linked but thats not the same thing. Survs have a linked head body and pants layer that get linked together for certain cosmetics
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are there any sets of just tops/bottoms without headgear? Id imagine its locked just because they didnt want to have to build that as a functional thing
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there are two easy solutions.
Survs regain their ability to be stalked slowly
He can stalk multiple people at once for an increase speed in stalk
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this would be so abusable
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2058070#Comment_2058070
Hrm. We will have to agree to disagree. I don't think your change in Add-on(s) will have near the effect you think it will, and will have so many negative, unintended consequences that very few people would even be willing to play in it. I don't think you would be able to field enough Killers for one as they will suffer far more than Survivors in your setup. I think both Ques would be slow to the point of detrimental.
Finally, I think my original point to you is still 100% correct and the most telling here. EVERYONE defines a "casual" game differently. Most people do not define it as you are doing. Unless there is agreement by the majority of the so-call community on how a "casual" game is defined, it is never going to happen. It is impossible. That is the point I've been trying to make to you. I have not been ignoring what you write. I haven't been ignoring your ideas. Some of them are interesting but don't need another Que to implement. What I have been doing is cutting to the chase, the cruel, logistical fact that what you want isn't possible for a host of reasons, not the least of which being that there is no demand or agreement on the shape of it.
If I already answered 90% of the questions you kept asking then once again, its not about me, its about you. As I said, you kept shifting the burden of necessary constraints. I even listed the progression of what you deemed as necessary and how drastically it shifted. This was never about me arguing my position to you, it was about you having a knee-jerk reaction and making your decision before considering anything. I addressed the issue with ques, and at this point the only other point you have is "there will probably be unintended consequences"
There just doesn't seem to be anything substantive you want to add, seeing that all of the issues you brought up were already answered. Like that annoying kid in freshmen history class who asks a really dumb question that we had been going over for the first 20 minutes.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2056177#Comment_2056177
I appreciate that you took the time to answer these questions, most of them anyway. But I suspect you still aren't understanding what I'm getting at in asking them. OBX, another poster here, clearly does. Most people define a "casual" mode as less competitive, or less sweaty to use the slang I do not like. The very notion and idea you put forward gives the impression (unless they look at the specifics) that a lot of things they think are problems would be addressed. Your suggestions do not address them at all. People don't spend most of their time calling for a casual mode complaining about the Add-On(s). The spend their time wishing the SWF would go away, tunneling would be a thing of the past, camping would be against the rules, and slugging not allowed.
In short, most people see "casual" games as those where people don't fight so hard to win, using the ANY tactic that gets results. I submit that what you have defined (and I still don't think it is specific enough) wouldn't be casual at all. It would still be just as hard fought and have just as many people complaining. In short, your version of a "casual" mode isn't going to fit their expectations. There are lots of things on your list that think are fine and could go into the existing Que. I think you will find if you went back through my posts (and your own) that we aren't that far apart on some things. The reason we are at odds here is because the devil is in the details. What you are calling casual isn't what most people are asking for when they say they want a casual game.
I'd like to, and I am not being an ass here, point out a few unintended consequences of the changes you propose.
- Killer diversity would take a nose dive. Many of the so-call "less effective" Killers have build changes via Add-on(s) that don't necessarily make them better but do change how they play. Without access to those Add-on(s) they simply won't be chosen. Most Players will gravitate to those Killers who are already plug and play ready. Consider Spirit, even without a single Add-On she is a terror. How much more often will she be played over those Killers that are literally Add-On dependent? And remember, most of the Killer Add-On(s) that mean anything are Purple. Survivors are far less impacted by Add-On changes than Killers.
- Survivors have Perks which allows them to pull fancy Equipment during the match, and even ones with spicy Add-On(s) which will bypass your limitation. This would have to be addressed would it not?
- Wouldn't extending both Generator and Sacrifice time only lengthen a match without altering anything specific? More to the point, if you increased both of those things, would SLUGGING would become the most common tactic in the game. If it takes longer to put someone down, the four person slug before hooking anyone is more effective; then it doesn't matter how long they are on the hook.
- In turn, if slugging is the new competitive META due to the change in hooks and generators, won't that also create less diversity in Survivor Perks? Those that allow people to get back up would pretty much be auto-include.
- In addition, wouldn't it be prudent for the Killer to down someone and then camp in the general vicinity of the downed person to then slug as many in the same area as possible so they can hit the people who try to jump back up? I mean in theory, since slugging would be more effective in this format, it is quite likely that people would spend most of their time on the ground in long, bleeding out matches to only then spend extended time on the hooks due to extended sacrifice time.
I'm not going to go to ten just to be an ass, but when I brainstormed I came up with twenty-two problematic issues that came up. Some of them are new created by your format, and some of them are the same ones we face now. My point, and again I was never against your utopian ideal of somehow achieving your goal, is that there is nothing less competitive in this format. In short order why would anyone stay there if they are still having Sweaty games and earning LESS XP and BP? It would be the same thing with just different tactics and less reward. I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud just to be a stick in the mud. I'm drawing attention to the fact that how YOU define casual is not how most people see it, and there would be nothing casual about your version. It would just have fewer options but just as cutthroat.
Iri Head, long term exhaustion based add ons, infinite tier 3 myers, all exposure and mori add-ons, insta heals, turbo gen boxes, flash lights that can be used with macros to extend their use to over 20 full seconds, would all instantly be removed. And of course the chests themselves wouldn't be able to circumvent the prerequisites of the game.
Longer sacrifice timers would discourage camping, as it would provide much more time for survs to heal and begin gen work.
There are killers who are add on dependant, but no killer whose dependant add ons are of green quality or higher. While there are green, purple, or even iri add ons that make things far more consistent, trapper with yellow bag and trap setters is more than good. Wraith's two best consistency add ons are Bone Clappers (yellow) and the ghost soot (white). Myers can get his movement speed while stalking and stalking boost from white and yellow as well. While not perfect, yellow and white have options for all add on reliant killers.
If slugging were really that much of an issue, which I still don't think it would be (Ill go into why after), then you can just increase bleed out timer. Its already insanely long as is, but death by bleed out is meant to stop someone from going down and crawling into a corner to kill time, it takes far too long to actually be a strategy for kills. This aside, the fastest way to kill, and the most efficient for points, will remain going for 12 hooks. Letting someone bleed out has no associated reward and will not help towards a decent score. Slugging is just too slow and too easily countered to be worth the point loss you are taking.
Overall, a casual mode isn't meant to be easy. Its not suppose to be a candycane and gum drop romp. Its still the game, you still want to win. The point of a casual mode is games are slower, actions aren't optimized, and you really aren't playing the game at its fullest realization. It isn't a "chill mode" so much as its not so much of a "sweat fest. It isnt the hardest core environment, it is an environment to experience the game in a less competitive setting. You are so focused on trying to poke holes, (in ways that are really stretching it), that you keep ignoring the existence and purpose of casual modes in literally every other competitive game
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2055032#Comment_2055032
All sound and fury, signifying nothing... I read every word you wrote. You stated what you wanted, what you think it will be, but not really how. That is a pretty big omission. And to recap, insulting me in no way strengthens your argument. In fact, it undermines you. Also, the fact that you can't keep up with my arguments, or understand them, doesn't mean they are wrong. I'm perfectly happy to let you keep making a fool of yourself, and discuss this for eternity with you. The longer we discuss it, the more clear it becomes to anyone (masochistic enough to still be reading) why your idea of a casual mode will never work. In short, you are the perfect sounding board for me. You make your position sound utterly ludicrous. But let's get into specifics...
- How will you keep out the people who SAY they are there for a casual game but are really ruthless Killers?
- You say they will get less rewards for playing casual, but why should they get ANY rewards?
- And if they are getting rewards, what percentage are you suggesting?
- What metrics will be used to kick people out of the casual play?
- If someone is always winning, does that mean they aren't casual enough?
- Will we need another casual Que for those who find the one you suggest still too competitive?
- What about people who just make another account to pretend to be casual?
- Should people in the casual que be eligible for certain cosmetics, charms and such that people have to earn?
- And who will decide what (if any) special casual rules apply?
- And who decides what Killers, Perks, etc. are not fit for casual play?
I could keep going, and probably will as our discussion progresses. If you truly want this thing, then you need to give a LOT more specifics on how you think this will work, so we can figure out the unintended consequences. Going back to that earned rewards thing, let's talk some more about why some people should be able to earn ANY rewards and thus unlock certain things if they aren't really playing against the same odds as everyone else. Would casual preclude SWF, i.e. all casual games must be Solo then? A SWF is not casual for the Killer.
- My initial post said exactly what I suggested. White and Yellow add ons/items only. 15% longer gen and sacrifice speeds
- Every other casual mode in every other game rewards all play, but incentivized ranked/comp play with far greater rewards and daily challenges
- I literally said half
- why would anyone be kicked out of casual play, as I said it would match make off your earned rank but not effect rank, and it locks what you can use
- there is no definite win con in dbd, but with the decreased bp gain you'll need to play ranked to rebuild up your add on pool either way
- Every other game has a casual and comp pool, usually ranked has longer que times but that shouldnt actually be an issue here seeing as most people are used to ranked play
- casual isnt like a separate bracket, as we've been discussing, every game has a ranked game mode, and a casual game mode, they are separate and you choose when to play them
- the only cosmetics you earn from gameplay are through rift, trying to grind such things in casual would be foolish seeing as youd have reduced rift gains. It is likely certain tomes would be locked to specific modes, as that is how other games often handle battle pass challenges
- The Devs would have the final say, but in general, the difference between ranked and casual games is that you have shorter times to accomplish goals, and things take longer to do. Going off rainbow six as the example we used before, in casual you get an extra minute of play time, and the bomb defuser takes half the time to plant. The only timed equivalents are gens and hooks, so the obvious answer is to make each of them take slightly longer. Disabling the highest tier add ons also limit the more aggressive mechanics, so thats kinda an obvious choice.
- Realistically there is no perk or build that is so oppressive that it should be game breaking in this environment. If you HAD to remove perks, the simplest answer is no hex or exhaustion perks can be used in this mode, but I personally would not advocate for that
As I keep saying however, you are clearly not reading my messages. I have said, literally each of these things already. Literally not a single one of these are new to this conversation.
And once again, Im not proposing any crazy new idea, DBD is the outlier. Every other competitive game has a Ranked setting for high risk-high reward, optimized play, a casual mode for a matchmaking, qued game for intermediate play, and a custom game for an unrewarded, friend v friend environment, with no matchmaking system. This is not a new concept, we've had these systems for as long as online gaming as been a thing. We're talking almost 20 years now... I shouldn't have to spell these things out for you
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@mexicowl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2053798#Comment_2053798
You know, thank you for actually having a decent response that provides a suggestion for a better way to work it. Much kinder than the other twats saying "go play another game" and "it wouldn't work"
it was a good question, and some people just wanna be angry, have a good one <3
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2054843#Comment_2054843
Right now I'm laughing at you. Are you seriously calling ME a troll after all the personal attacks you have lobbed along with your edited language? :) This is the situation. The OP (and you) have said you want a chill/casual/relaxed/whatever mode. I advised you:
- That is isn't going to happen.
- Why it isn't going to happen (logistics of the Ques).
- And offered you an option that gives you a work around (Custom Game).
You didn't like my answers. Not liking my answers and attacking me personally (as amusing as I find it) doesn't alter any facts or refute my points. The discussion between us was over a long time ago in so far as the debate. But since you seem to want to continue our little chat, let me ask you exactly HOW you think this casual game should be achieved, how it will keep out the wolves among the sheep, and why you think people who are playing "casually" should earn as much BP or XP as those who are working for it?
People who heckle and demand things from the DEV from the cheap seat are always endlessly fascinating to me. To hear you guys talk, balancing the game, fixing that bug, creating an alternate casual system is a snap. Why I'll bet you think you could have it coded and whipped up over a weekend right? The DEV, you know the people whose very jobs depend on this game being successful, they clearly don't know near as much as you. Why they should give you a job! There, now I'm trolling just a bit to make you happy.
Again, you can already play as casually as you like with people of like minds in a Custom Game. It exists as an option for you 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. The DEV created that with people who to set their own limits in mind. The complexity of the game for NORMAL matchmaking is already proving to be a tough nut for the company to crack. Now you want them to put another pot on the stovetop and somehow create this relaxed version where everyone taking part will magically conform to the standards you want? Really?
You still cant ######### read. Jesus #########. I literally said a casual mode would deserve some, but far less rewards. Your mention of ques was not your first point, I pointed out the flaws in your original points so you kept jumping ship until I agreed that it is the single POSSIBLE issue. I also mentioned how the influx of players would likely counteract that, but that both of us were being speculative which is unfair.
You keep going in circles, you keep backtracking, you cant ######### read.
I explained the point of all three gamemodes. I explained why literally every other major title has them. I explained the difference between a casual and custom gamemode. But because all you want to do is make... honestly really poor... analogies over and over again, and keep talking down to someone who is actual listing points and using examples while all you do is say "that cant work because... uh uh... I dont know how it would?" then you're just a ######### dipshit.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2054608#Comment_2054608
I didn't pull anything; the theatrics were all YOURS. You are the ones asking for something, demanding it in fact. You gave us a lot of jive about other games having what you want. Go play those other games. :) If you keep playing this one, then clearly the game is fine and doesn't need what you are asking for.
"hey you have a car, and I have a car, so why do we need a bus service in this town?". Its still such a non argument. Other games have less competitive sections for availability, expanding the community and allowing people to learn a game in a semi competitive environment so they can then experience what a game really has to offer. The lower ranks in dbd really are awful. They are full of campers, tunnelers, and overall just really poor players trying to rank up with non-viable gameplay. A casual setting, as in all games, provides an opportunity to walk before you can run.
I can't figure out if you are literally just trolling or actually this ignorant at this point
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2054524#Comment_2054524
Sure, I can do that for you. DbD is a successful game NOW. They do that by keeping their Ques moving. They aren't going to fix what isn't broken. :)
So your final reason, be all end all, for all the theatricts and ######### you were pulling, is ######### "meh" XD
Im ######### dead
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2054457#Comment_2054457
Actually it is SUPER easy, barely an inconvenience. Whenever I want a custom game, and my regular pals aren't available, I jump on to Discord and it takes a few minutes at most. I've even picked up casual players with a post. Again, do not blame the game or the Dev if you can't be bothered to FIND the people who want to play by your terms. They are out there; I'm sure.
*P.S. I said the kind of casual game YOU want mandated into a Que is impossible. I have now pointed out an alternate way for you to get one. You should be elated. And you don't need XP or BP or any of those things when everything is UNLOCKED in the Custom Game. And you don't DESERVE those things earned in a game with less work than everyone else.
99% of all games : Have a designated casual mode with functioning matchmaking : reward the play against people
99% of games : Have a designated, harder, more competitive ranked mode, with greater rewards for playing
99% of games : Have a custom mode with your ability to choose maps, abilities, and other modifiers you normally have no control over
When you can explain wh dbd needs to follow a different pattern, for literally any reason, you can get off your high horse. Because false equivalencies still aren't an argument
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2054406#Comment_2054406
Heh. Watch your blood pressure there champ. If I trigger you that easy, I can only imagine what the game does to you. The option to have casual games ALREADY exists for anyone who wants to use it. If people choose to disregard it, they have only themselves to blame. Custom game exists for people who want to implement (with like-minded folks) whatever rules they want, and try out whatever they want. So let me REPEAT: the mode already exists.
Getting angry at me doesn't in any way negate the points I've made. You said that the DEV should make a casual mode for people who want to play it. I've pointed out (and you are ignoring) that mode already exists. If people go into the Ques, they get whomever they get matched with and should understand that. If people don't like the heat, they stay out of the kitchen. The game provides them with an alternate way of playing.
yes because everyone always has five people available. You also get literally no reward of any kind for this, no bp, no xp towards tomes, but if you want to say ignoring the fact that customs games physically exist as ignoring the "many points" you claim to have made, then that is just very diluted... The games listed all have custom games AND casual modes, there is a time and place for each and you know that. Its okay to be wrong, but if you want to just keep changing what your goal is then this isn't a discussion, its me explaining at you for twenty minutes :/
You went from "no game would ever do such a thing" to "yea but its just the same" to "yea but no one would want it" to "yea but we have it already"
Your first and most recent points are literally antitheses to each other. You are arguing for the sake of it. Doubling down on a wrong answer is so much worse than just admitting you might have been wrong
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2054196#Comment_2054196
I am reading what you are saying; it is a pipe dream. It doesn't exist. As to whether or not I play in competitive formats, I gravitate toward them. I live for them. I'm one of the most competitive people you are ever going to talk to here or anywhere else. Perhaps what is odd about me is that I largely am competing with myself. At the end of the day, you are all just Bots to me. I'm trying to beat my last best record, not you.
In regards to PvP games, I'm simply more pragmatic than you are in this matter. Games are not MADE casual by the designers. They are only as relaxed as the Players engaged in them. This is a huge player base in a PvP game. That means most matches are going to be hard fought by one or more of the people involved. The only time you are going to hit a casual game is when matchmaking puts you up against someone you should not be playing. That is reality.
I've pointed this out before, and I will again many times I'm sure. If you want specific limits, choose CUSTOM GAME and get together with like-minded individuals. You can play as casual/chill/relaxed/easy-going/etc. as you want. DbD has given you this mode already. Go use it. Quit trying to insist the rest of us have to cater to YOU. You have the option; use it.
For literally the third time now, and Im opening with this because for as far as your head is up your own ass, you still can't read ######### english. I have no intention on using a casual dbd mode. I personally do not want or need that environment, I prefer the optimized competition of a rank 1 swf trying to survive against me, playing out a fair game where I get my 12 hooks without having to rely on crutch perks or tunneling or some #########. Im here for the difficult, highly optimized game. I think disregarding the less competitive setting as pointless and as something that isn't integral in a game's health is ridiculous though, and I think many people would enjoy such a mode.
You haven't given a single reason as to why it wouldn't functionally work other than "different people call chill a different thing". The argument for slower que times is not a problem with the system itself, it is a potential issue with matchmaking. If more people were playing in general because of the casual mode that wouldn't be an issue, but if thats the route we want to go down neither of us can speak on fact, those are both pure speculation.
You're 100% just talking out of your ass whenever you reference a different game. Different gamemodes 100% have different mechanics. In rainbow for example, ranked games have a pick/ban phase and the defenders get to select which bomb site they want to defend. The ranked diffuser has DOUBLE the activation time, and they get a minute less per round. Ranked Siege has even outright banned new ops in the past in ranked. There are also more rounds in a game.
This is just one example, but each of the games I listed have vastly different casual and ranked gameplay mechanics that force a more team oriented and calculated play style. You aren't being pragmatic, you're just talking out of your ass because you realized someone actually put some amount of thought into something and you can't poke holes in it because you don't know what the ######### you're talking about.
And Jesus ######### christ, lose the god complex. "YOU ARE ALL BOTS TO ME", "ITS A PIPE DREAM", "LET ME GIVE YOU THREE CONSECUTIVE ANALOGIES SO I CAN JERK OFF MY GIANT PENIS". Holy ######### who do you think you are? Its so ######### cringy. Its a discussion board, make some points and discuss or go back to your living inside your giant ######### head
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2053904#Comment_2053904
I play all of those games. Their "chill mode" as you put it is no less competitive than the main one. Sell bridges somewhere else. :) Again, this is the game. It isn't going to change for lots of logistical reasons. Let me explain:
- The spice must flow. Please forgive my inner geek coming out there, but that analogy is the nail on the head. This game only works with there being enough Killers to Survivors so that the Ques don't grind to a halt. Breaking the game into multiple Ques will dilute the Player Base which is why they haven't fixed a more PRESSING problem of the SWF. They are adverse to breaking up the Ques into more than one because it is hard enough keeping one running smoothly. Do you see my point?
- Nobody agrees on what "Chill Mode" would entail. Nobody agrees on anything.
- All the games that have a so-called Chill Mode are lies. I play them too. They are still not chill.
Again, we circle back to my original point. This is the game. You accept and embrace it, or you find one you like better. There is no shame in saying, "You know what, I don't enjoy DbD, I think I'll vagabond on to something I do enjoy." I won't judge you. We won't even know you are gone. Those of us who do enjoy the game are too busy, nor do we care. What is important is that you find the right game for you. The success of DbD (and it is very successful) indicates that there are quite a lot of people who enjoy it. Why do some insist that it be fixed to their liking rather than the more practical realistic solution of them just finding something they like?
Thats just... really not true. Like in any metric. There is no dialogue or focused strategy in casual siege, its you play your role and then execute. In ranked everything is calculated, every position is held, no one is dicking around, it is optimized. In overwatch it really is just deathmatch in casual. Ranked has such an important balance that needs to be kept to maintain in the higher ranks. You need to optimize positioning in ways that just will not be seen in unranked. League... holy ######### if you think their casual gamemodes are anything other than casual then you are playing at some low ######### ranks in the ranked modes...
Im not selling bridges, you are just being wholly unrealistic. Optimization and execution are the key factors of a competitive setting, and if you can't understand that then its clear you've never experiences a highly competitive setting...
Im not calling it a chill mode at this because that is an oversimplification, its casual, it isnt optimized, its just people playing the game. By every definition, it is not a competitive setting. If you are so hung up on the word "chill mode" you are either 12 or just don't want to address the discussion.
I never sad that there weren't flaws, the biggest certain is que times. It is also possible that the many people interested in asymmetrical horror but who are too frustrated to learn the optimizations would thrive in a casual setting, one we are not providing for them. While yes that is far less likely, it is possible that the community size would increase with such an addition.
And almost as if you aren't reading anything Im saying, as if that weren't already obvious, I said it is not a feature I would use because I prefer the competitive setting in general. That doesn't change the fact that this addition needs to exist in some form
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2053798#Comment_2053798
Except for the fact that doesn't work. People sandbag themselves to be wolves among the sheep. People create dummy accounts to be the fox in the henhouse. There is no way to create a "chill mode" for this game because all that would do is ensure that some non-chill types would go get their sick jollies at the expense of those looking to relax.
This is a PvP game. The theme is horror and the design is stress. It is not compatible with a "chill" mindset. The measures needed to accomplish this are almost impossible. More to the point, "chill" is a state of mind and very subjective. No two people are going to agree on what it means. The more direct, honest answer is that if you are not enjoying the game, take a break, find another game, or read a book. Be realistic.
Half of your argument was a list of analogies and the other half was deconstructing the world chill. A casual mode still exists in most games with competitive PVP, its not that that isnt a good argument, its that that isnt an argument. Its done in literally every other example of game, saying it wouldnt work because its PVP makes no sense. The point of a casual gamemode is the stakes are low and everyone's abilities are kept to a minimum.
Look at R6, Overwatch, LOL, there are casual gamemodes for every very competitive game. Its not that people aren't trying, its that they aren't trying as much. They don't want to have anxiety playing a game they enjoy all the time. This isn't about toning down dbd, its about letting you choose when you wanna really go at it.
The measures were listed in my first message. Its done in literally every other comparable environment and setting, so Im not the one being unrealistic. And personally I would literally never use the casual mode, I play at high red ranks and don't mind having to play in a highly optimized way, doesn't change the fact that I think there should be a casual mode :/
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237447/can-we-please-have-a-chill-mode
Lose. That is how you get back to "chill mode." It is a problem that self resolves. I'm not trying to be snide. This is a PvP game and the better you play (in theory) the better your opponents are going to become. For the record, there is no such thing as a "normal" game. Every match is its own thing. This is the game; if it isn't your thing, there are other games to try.
there is no other competitive game that doesn't have a casual mode. There is always a ranked setting, and a casual setting. The only exceptions are battle royales which do not have a ranked mode of any kind in the first place, because how the hell would you matchmake 100 people?
the solution is simple. just limit add ons and items to the white and yellow tiers, boom, instant casual mode. Maybe slow gen and sacrifice speed by 15%. There you go, unranked, casual mode where everything is a bit more relaxed. It could still use your rank for matchmaking, but there would be no reason to sweat. It could prob give less bp too, for the sake of incentivizing the ranked mode, but it 1000% would work and should exist in some form
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051371#Comment_2051371
back up meaning a lot of game I don't use it still 3k or 4k but to get that you have to sweat or lose the match as killer for survivor not that hard to win even in solo.
if your in rank 1 all the time that good but I'm sure you have your bad games
btw how matchmaking is being being a rank 9 killer I don't need to be in red rank to face red rank survivors which most what i face.
also my main is mikey so you can see how I could have a hard match sometime and I don't use noed on him still win but sometime games go bad.
Im not saying I win every game, but you get to a point where 4 escapes in unheard of. A bad game for me is two escapes with at least one on death hook. You optimize play styles to a point that unless you are facing an incredibly efficient team, your loses are games slipping through your fingers, not steam rolls. Noed will get you maybe one unearned down? If you must rely on an end game perk, BW is honestly the way to go. Its easy enough to stall, and can and will get you more kills than you would with noed. Either way though it really is a waste of a perk slot. In the long term the consistency of having four perks being used to their fullest effect is so worth. Its the reason people at higher ranks use devour instead of noed. It instantly stops all progress, as soon as they know its in play, you have free reign until it goes down. If you play off it well enough, or get a great spawn, it will be devastating most games. Noed on the other hand, shouldnt even be an issue. "Do bones" is kinda a meme, but there is no reason any totems should be left by the time gates are powered. Its just too inconsistent , and honestly too weak to be useful
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2038114#Comment_2038114
the thing is he stalked me the first 30 seconds of the game then 5 minutes later he activated it mid chase
I mentioned the counterplay to exactly that though. If you detect him and can body block for someone else in chase, you can force him to lose the effectiveness of his power. In that split second he has to decide "do I keep my 99 or do I just hit them", which I promise you, is a choice they are not prepared to make. You will disrupt the chase, they will lose time, or they will regret their choice. Either way you have successfully counterplayed him
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051185#Comment_2051185
are you sure that you not just lucky on getting bad survivors.
I mean for the most part I do good I get 3k or 4k before all gens are done and 3k is a good game to me but sometime some survivors can pop tho gens like crazy if they want to win badly.
why I run noed as back up on some of my killers who can't handle swf groups because I know if the gens going that fast they not doing totems a lot of the time I don't need noed but sometime I do.
the fact that using noed as a "back up" kinda proves my point a bit? Not trying to be rude, just objective. Im not getting lucky if Im rank 1 every season for a few years, consistently 4king 9/10 games with every killer in game. Any killer can be good
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2049063#Comment_2049063
in short I play both side as a survivor I see gen are going to fast.
I get in a short chase with the killer get down and hooked and 3 to 4 gens are done I play solo.
not even good at looping and I waste the killers time to get 3 to 4 gens done.
yea someone explained it. It really just sounded like you were playing poorly as killer, or against poor killers.