Doomsaki
Doomsaki
About
- Username
- Doomsaki
- Joined
- Visits
- 549
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495870#Comment_3495870
if you get hooked or hit while holding a tape you gain more stacks
more stacks? it is already relatively punishing to get hit by the tape. for example if you hit by with a tape, you lose 2 stacks+each 10 second that you are not holding tape, you gain 0.75 stacks. so let say it takes 28 second to get to another TV to hold the tape and Sadako uses TP twice. you get 3.5 stacks just for that play. that part is either fine or could be too punishing. it depends how well survivor adapts to finding the tapes.I want to say it is fine but some feedback is suggesting that condemn build-up is too strong. it is something to monitor as survivors evolve towards playing against the ability in a more efficient way.
If there is a little of bit of feedback that condemn buildup is strong, then the devs have done their job of making Sadako's power feel threatening.
-----------
But over and over, playing Sadako, I only see 1 out of the 4 survivors actually grabbing a tape early on at best. I know how to isolate 1/2 of the map and turn off all the TVs on one side; people who are greeding a generator don't try to grab tapes until its too late, but I've already cleared their area of TVs. Someone gets Mori'd predictably quickly as a result, then everyone starts to give up or DC after that; a lot of post-game yelling in chat results.
It just seems as if people aren't figuring out that a decision they made in the first 30s of the game is causing a snowball defeat. It happens over and over and over again. I haven't seen one game where everyone (all 4 survs) hold onto an early tape.
-
@WiseTraveler said:
why should we reward players who are oblivious to changes? The issue isn't that she's too strong and uncounter. The issue is skill expression for both survivors and killers. In solo queue, it's harder for survivors to express their ability to counter condemnation. But at the same time if all survivors grab tapes survivors limit the killer's skill expression of spreading condemnation. Adding this add-on to the base kit isn't fixing this issue. Tapes need to be nerfed in one way and at the same time her ability to spread condemnation against survivors who don't hold tapes needs to be slightly lowered. This way tapes are actually somewhat dangerous.
Possible options
- passive condemnation for holding tapes for long periods
- if you get hooked or hit while holding a tape you gain more stacks
- anything that doesn't limit skill expressions for either side
Well the thing is: whenever there is a choice that has only one obvious answer, its not really a meaningful decision. There isn't a reason to NOT hold a tape at the beginning of a match.
It should just be done automatically.
===========
But if we wanted more skill expression, I''d be all for having teleporting apply only 1/2 stack globally and a full stack to people within 16m. Old Sadakos had to corral people towards TVs to build condemned and such predictive skills were what set a good Onryo apart from a bad Onryo.
-
@Nash said:
I think the deathslinger should have a smaller terror radius other than that he really struggles to traverse the map so maybe he could be 4.6 instead of 4.4 while not in chase? I am not certain about the mobility proposal but he really shouldn't have that big of a terror radius which only introduces boring gameplay and causes frustration.
He could have a "stance" where he uses his gun, the redeemer, like a crutch or a walking stick to help his injured leg. While in this stance, he moves like a regular killer, but can't use his power. Then he needs to take a few seconds to go back to shooting stance where he's ranged capable but slower moving.
-
@Advorsus said:
I never really liked the idea of having two different bottles, it just makes no sense. Like the speed up is nice but why give a downside for an already weak killer? Lol
They should have just made it to where if the clown walks through his own tonic cloud then he gets invigorated and gets that small speed boost.
He'd still be lacking in the 4v1 but he'd still have solid 1v1 potential.
It's a simple concept that was made far more complex than it had to be. Instead we got two different bottles that we're forced to switch between mid Chase and both bottles count towards the same total bottle count? It just made it far more complicated with a very small benefit that can also benefit survivors.
From a consistency standpoint, I do find it odd that the two types of bottles use the same ammo count as you pointed out at the end of that post. Antidote and tonic ought to have 4 bottles each.
Making one gas cloud slow and speed boost simultaneously is actually a very powerful buff. Something like that might be suited for an iridescent addon with other drawbacks.
-
@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2173262#Comment_2173262
You don't get good Hags? Man, the Hag players I've been up against are lethal.
Which surprises me that hag isn't played more often. Usually people gravitate to what's strong, but she seems so rare.
-
My honest opinion about the wraith in his current state is that a very experienced blight with "stealthy" perks (i.e. tinkerer) is much more threatening than any wraith.
They both overlap somewhat with the high-mobility run-down strategy, just that blight doesn't have the weaknesses on certain loops.
-
Wraith is weak vs meta-builds and survivors who have good map knowledge.
Wraith is also one of the default killers and his movement speed is oppressive to people who may not have teachable perks (i.e. sprint burst, self-care, or bond), or do not have a sense of where pallets spawn yet in their first few dozen hours.
-
@lemonsway said:
The game is FUN (despite too simple in concept) but UNFAIR (the power of 4 vs the power of 1, perks, add-ons, etc). There's too much that can make matches UNFAIR. The Matchmaking suffers because of everything around it. You can't blame Matchmaking for facing 4 solos or a SWF where they all have Meta Perks, Matchmaking can't account for what people bring and use so Matchmaking itself isn't the issue and even MMR can't help this.
Ranked and Casual would help if it had defined rules, you'd keep Casual as we currently have it and you'd have Ranked with Set Rules, no stacking of perks for example, no OP add-ons like Tombstone Myers, etc. Rules that within a Competitive Setting make for a Fair match. All of this would force a HUGE and NECESSARY (even without playlist split) BALANCE UPDATE. They could keep the current existing 20 Ranks, they can keep Rank Reset except everyone goes back to rank 20 to reshuffle everything instead of high ranks always being high ranks. And to give people an incentive besides the Competitiveness and to encourage as manny people as possible to play Ranked Mode they could integrate the Archive System to it so it isn't playing the game in sweat matches, it's playing the game in the most Balanced environment possible and giving Progression. Casual Mode would have everything like perk and add-ons unlocked so people can play whatever whenever they want. Wanna do a quick match? Go Casual. Wanna try new killer ? Go Casual. This way everyone gets free practice or quick play options without any pressure where doing good or bad doesn't matter but everyone can learn and get better so that they eventually play Ranked. Ranked doesn't have to be sweaty, ranking up doesn't have to be a must but something you choose to do but should you chose so then there's a environment that is ready for it.
Speaking of creating that Balanced environment it would be extremely hard with just Perk Balancing and add-on balancing. My belief is that the Maps need to be properply Reworked and not just face lifts, coats of paint don't do anything. For example Breakable Walls, they aren't there to help get rid of infinite loops, Breakable Walls themselves are infinite loops in some cases wich killers are forced to break wich results in losing the first chase there and that's just wrong no player should lose anything because the game is terribly designed, the Map Design needs to be properly adressed and not covered by dumb mechanics like Breakable walls. Killers need a better POV and FOV, the taller killers feel exactly the same as all the normal human size killer, Myers's POV and FOV shouldn't be the same as Ghostface's or Plague's and Legions's, to me that makes no sense, i get they need to be consistant but make it consistant with the character's Build, taller Characters = taller POV and higher FOV. I get why they want a lower FOV for Killers but for gameplay purposes it's just not good to have a lower FOV.
Another issues is the Pipin System and the Emblems and how each role fills those requisits. I Like the Pipin System, i think it is good and fair but the Emblem System is a complete joke. Get rid of the Emblems, make each action worth more points and make it count directly towards Pipin so that you require less of the same action to have a chance at progressing your Rank. Needing X amount of this for Y Emblem then needing Z amount of this for W Emblem then the same for 2 more emblems is just too much to do. The game being around who can pressure Generators better isn't good for the game. Killer's can't pressure 4 people at once thus he can't be punished so harshly for losing Gens, gens isn't the killer objective, Hooking is the killer objective, chases is where Survivor meets Killer, the game needs to push this aspect more, promote more interactivity between both roles. One of the best way's to promote this interactivity is to make Gens less important and to do that they can introduce parts needed to repair the Gens instead of just holding M1, this makes for a better early game for all killers, especially Set Up Killers, since Survivors will need to search the map for the parts they need, meaning there's more potential for chases to happen, there's more map to play in and there's less emphasis on kill rushing and on camping or tunneling wich makes for a less sweaty game.
I think most everyone would agree that DbD needs a change to it's core not only to solve it's problems but to be something more than just new content every 3 months. The main problem is whoever is in charge of putting DbD together thinks the game is just fine as it is on a conceptual level and the fact that DbD is self published means there's no accountability to be had, wich is nice when there's a genuine desire to make things well but DbD's track record with quality isn't good but there's no accountability so the quality can't be higher. There have been so manny games that have done things better than DbD but don't stand a chance against DbD's licensing power, where else would you play Myers, Demogorgon, Steve, Nancy, Ghostface, etc.
And here's something else, DbD isn't a cheap game, the base game is 20 bucks but there's only 5 killers and survivor and most of the perks, especially on Killer side SUCK BALLS, there isn't a single gen regression perk, there's only Thanatophobia but it requires to injure people and keep them injured, wich means you'll need Sloppy Butcher, wich then you can compliment with A Nurses Calling and your final perk is whatever else there is: Enduring, NOED, Tinkerer, Whispers. Huntress's, Wraith's and Trapper's Teachable Perks suck balls, out of those 9 perks only Brutal Strength is useful. Oh but there's Shrine, yeah and each perk there is 2k shards, you'll need to play alot frequently to get 1 perk every week and then there's still chances that the Perks in the Shrine are some of the 15 you already have. Everything else you have to buy and then GRIND... DbD isn't cheap and then there's always the Rift pass and the cosmetic shop wich make alot of money for BHVR so there's no reason for DbD to be so low quality sometimes...Take that money and hire some competent people.
Talking about the first part of that post:
A certain degree of randomness and a small amount of unfairness provides a bit of variation in the gameplay experience. But rather than splitting off into ranked/casual with strict rules, I think a big culprit to address instead that ruins people's fun is that good addons/offerings/team perk setups are currently a blind wager.
For example, if survivors are running 4x purple hook offerings and they're all running breakdown, you don't know about it beforehand until its too late and you're in the game. There is no chance to react per say other than to take a beating for a good 5-15 minutes or not being able to do much. Likewise, if you've ever been playing solo survivor and run into a rusty-shackles 3-gen hag, there isn't much you can do without certain perks/items.
If there was some way of getting a partial hint that you're facing a lot of stacked perks or high quality addons/offerings, the other side might be able to back their wager with their own high end stuff. Or if there was same way to swap-out loadouts to a limited extent mid-trial, then we might avoid situations where one side feels helpless. Just a vague notion to think about for avoiding frustrating situations.
-
Wraith, being a character who moves so fast, is extremely oppressive once pallet deadzones have been created on some maps. Where he really suffers is bad loops against survivors in certain situations like double T or L vault windows. Having to spend so long on certain loops puts a certain ceiling on him in high ranks.
One possibility is making the process of uncloaking create a shade of himself that has collision. Thus the wraith can uncloak at a window at some of the worst loops in the game, then this image will block survivors from vaulting (think like Charlotte, pre-nerf). Put a cooldown and make it last only ~20 seconds maximum to avoid hostage situations.
-
Just throwing something out there about my original point of
"how to make objectives matter less so people can do other activities that are more fun and relaxing"(i.e. chases, helping teammates, etc)----------------
What if
instead of 5x generators to start the end collapse,We had a 30 minute timer until the end collapse started. Then each generator completed removed 25% of the current timer.
----------------
A rundown of a fast game might look like this:
30 min start, 2 minutes elapse then two generators are completed back-to-back:
The timer is now 28:00 * 0.75 * 0.75 = ~15:45 minutes left.
then another 2 minutes elapse, and 2 more generators are completed back-to-back:
The timer is now 13:45 * 0.75 * 0.75 = ~7:45 minutes left.
finally, one more minute elapses, and 1 more generator is completed:
6:45 * 0.75 = 5:00 minutes left
----------------
So what I described in the example was an extremely nasty 5 minute "generator rush". But using a reduced percentage of the current timer system, that "generator rush" is actually a more normal 10 minute game. If you want the game to go even faster, survivors need to do a 6th or 7th generator, but the benefits of that might be slim at only 5 minutes remaining. What you will see if you plug these numbers in for various scenarios is that games are more equalized to last between 15 to 10 minutes assuming 5 gens done.
On the flip side there are possibilities if less than 5 generators are completed. Lets say that we have 4 gens done as described above, but 2 survivors left. Typically this would be a loss for both survivors against an S-tier killer, but surviving for ~8 minutes left in the game isn't an impossible task, just an uphill one. A team might fail, but so long as they did some gens, there is still hope for those that are left.
----------------
Some of the numbers might need slight adjustment, but under this system generators would still matter but not be so rigid leading to the frustration I described in the OP.
Maybe throw in an anti-tunneling incentive where each unique survivor hooked pauses the hidden timer briefly if all others are alive?
Thoughts?
-
@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
Maybe the solution is to stop playing games with the assumption that anyone who does their best to win is 'sweaty' or a 'tryhard'. There are people who do derive their enjoyment from playing their best. Not everyone wants to play chill.
I know, y'all ain't tryin to hear that. But it's true. Not every game needs to be chill and casual.
Well that's what I do every game. I play my best and if I see an opportunity to snowball things into an early 4 man slug, I go for it. Or if I see that the situation requires me to play a bit of defense with 1 hooked + 1 other down, I do that. (for certain killers, its do this or basically lose) On the survivor side, being a distracting/harasser is indeed a role to play in SWF. If you want the killer to come at you, sometimes pointing and crouch dancing is a way to get them to chase you so other teammates can heal/do gens/find totems.
But in the post-game chat (like 9/10 times), I get yelled at saying that I shouldn't do that or that I'm a terrible person ruining people's games. I just feel that there is a disconnect between what the playerbase wants from their matches vs what the game gives them if people want to climb ranks as best as possible.
-
@Dream_Whisper said:
I would have preferred if Laceration would have to be permanent, and the Survivors would need to stop and "Mend" in which they have to do a animation to removed each dagger on the Survivor's body! It would be quite interesting way to removed the dagger and waste time! They would have to do a couple of skill checks, to removed it properly!
Plus, it would be kinda cool if the knifes have some random effects, like Scream at random; or they start bleeding out timer if they fail at skill checks and they need to succeed at more skill checks to fixed their bleed out!
Maybe even a slow down in movement speed; by 1% for each dagger; so having 7 dagger on you can make you moved at 93% movement speed!
While makes Survivor's suffer with slow movement speed and some random effects; would help with tricksters chasing potential!
These different buffs, all together will help with his chase potential; as well as his ability to pressure multiple Survivors instead of just one Survivor! (His power forced him to tunnel a Survivor, which make him quite difficult in a 4v1)
From a thematic/animation perspective, having survivors pull out daggers from themselves could be an interesting place to start for giving the Trickster some split pressure. A huge amount of possible effects and/or debuffs are possible as you said.
-
@MadLordJack said:
DbD's design forces players to be as uninteractive as possible. Survivors rush gens with zero input from the killer (and with rather terrifying ease). Killers attempt to retaliate by playing killers with high mobility and an uninteractive chase (that decimates everyone but actual genrushers).
And people out there just play to win in a very casual game. If you find that fun, you do you, but... It really is a problem with the matchmaking that a seperated casual and ranked mode will not solve. At best, MMR will come out and only let the competitive players go against other competitive players. Because it's not fun to load into a trial and get steamrolled by players treating every trial of DbD like Siege. I'm sorry comp players, but that's just how it is. And I know many of you reading this don't do that, but too many do and see no problem with it. And I'm not saying this to target the people that play strong killers or in an efficient SWF, I'm saying this to the people that only do that and genuinely don't understand why the community doesn't like it.
Until they rework the core mechanics of this game, mostly gens but also map layouts and certain killer powers, "high-level" play is just going to be an extremely frustrating and uninteractive experience that the entire community is exposed to thanks to terrible matchmaking.
Personally, I wish we'd get several PTB tests where they throw out random changes to the core mechanics of the game (cloning a build right after a release with some tweaks). Many other studios when faced with potentially risky restructuring changes of their games would do just that to try and find possible leads on the future direction of their games.
Right now, the occasional PTB tests often only showcase a minor early-access look at an upcoming killer. I feel as though more could be done with them (i.e. wacky experiments).
-
@Bonquiqui414 said:
Hag is S tier but people don’t like her defensive play style. People just want to chase survivors and hag is the only killer that doesn’t want to be chasing for a long period. I like playing her though
What dismays me about people not liking her defensive playstyle is that in the same vein, many people also complain about a lack of variety in the higher ranks. Some people refuse to play hag out of principle; a lot of survivors moan in post-game chat and DC when I queue as hag, but we can't move away from the narrow perk meta that exists currently if people keep whining about unique killers once they make it to upper-rank play.
People constantly build around winning the chase, but refuse to run anything else. Hag subverts that.
-
@Ketrab2703 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154558#Comment_2154558
When playing as Hag recently I thought that would be a good idea to remove ability to remove traps with flashlights BUT give survivors "basekit" counter (i used word basekit because i lack better word). It could be a small 2-4 seconds animation of survivor trampling the trap (the triangle symbol). It would be move away from items/perks countering killers, it would just a base feature of The Hag.
My general experience is that survivors can already "wipe away" traps, sprinting to the edge so long as their reflexes are good enough to back away out of lunge range in the briefest instant.
But only 1% or 2% or so survivors that I come across actually do this consistently without getting hit. Overtime, if hag gets played more often, I expect that ratio to rise considerably.
-
After watching a lot of gameplay of people playing him, and playing against occasionally (a bit rare these days), one final thing I have to add on the topic is that I think that Main Event doesn't need to exist as a mechanic in its current form. For example, when a Myers goes into T3, from the perspective of a survivor, there is this real fear moment. If you're a survivor, its not so clear, or visible, or psychologically impactful to see a trickster use main event.
A lot of it boils down to the fact that Main Event just causes the Trickster to do slightly more of the same thing.
Personally I think that they could just make Trickster ramp up his throw speed the longer he holds down his power button (maybe with some other of the frenzy effects too increasing). Then a player has a choice to tap his power button for slower throws or to ramp overtime up for more lethality at the dire risk of running out of ammo.
-------------
Making that change would free things up to make Main Event into something that actually changes up gameplay a bit (bouncing daggers maybe baseline as a buildup effect?) or perhaps give tooltip space to some of the other things I mentioned in the main post.
-
My 2-cents what hag needs versus tournament-tier survivors (not just your run of the mill SWF, but super-super best of the best survivors) is simply a button that deactivates all her traps temporarily.
It might look something this:
Each trap that's interrupted and not teleported to builds up a stack. At maybe ~15 stacks, you get the option to use a button that hides and deactivates all traps for 30 seconds. Stepping on them doesn't do anything; they remain. This is 30 seconds of not being able to teleport, but it gives you time to setup a web if you've been cornered (i.e. i.e. 0/10 traps placed, and survivors are pointing fingers at you next to T and L wall loops ready to pounce on the next trap you place).
Most newer hags are just going to screw themselves over not having their power for 30 seconds, but at high level play, it gives you an option to recover if you truly do get shut out completely.
-
@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154646#Comment_2154646
There is counter played a 1k match where two just wouldn't let me set up. There is counterplay just requires good attention. And when you put Spirit and Hag so close together it's likely to misinterpreted.
I'm a pretty sweaty Hag main that's played hundreds of games at rank 1 and 4-slugs a lot (on NA if you see a blue ponytail hag skin 4-slugging everyone near the start of the game, that's prolly me). But I know what you mean about some coordinated teams that can catch you by surprise. Here is what I run as a result almost all the time:
This build is all about dealing with emergency contingency situations. A lot of people like to run starstruck, make your choice, etc, but I think that Hag's lethality is very strong on its own and are not necessary to 4k very, very consistently against randoms. The perks shown above are mostly for those surprise situations that catch you off guard.
If you have a bunch of SWF guys cramping your style, the way to punish them for it is to run play with your food. Find the obsession, and start setting up your web and let them interrupt it. As they are using up a lot time and manpower to keep you from setting up a web, you'll get your stacks and you'll be able to run someone down to good effect. When you don't have those PWF stacks yet, the strategy to get a web up is to go ahead and teleport and start placing 2 traps near each other (around a corner is best, slightly out of LOS is even better). When they interrupt one and run away to get out of lunge range, teleport back, and place 2 more out of LOS if possible. They will miss a few overtime.
Once you have some traps that they missed, go to a different area (preferably a gen with some progress as a delaying tactic) and start doing the same thing again. Eventually as you chase off some of those survivors, they will run in the direction of your missed traps and you can go to town. If you get someone injured, use nurses calling to keep chasing them off occasionally with the intent of setting up traps for future chases. Any item you knock off their hands, trap it.
If they have people dedicated to scouting and harassing you, you have some time as those are people not doing gens; however, sometimes you run into groups that play very purposely spread out. Sometimes you get into huge maps where its not worth going across to defend certain generators. If that ever happens, you can fall back on oppression to run a 4 or 5 gen strategy in one corner of the map.
------------------
A good rule of thumb for keeping survivors very pressured is that if you have someone on hook and you down a second person, just trap and leave them on the ground. If you pick them up, you are just asking for everyone else to take that time as an opportunity to destroy your web and get an unhook very fast without having to slowly crouch and waste time. Keep hard patrolling expanding your web simultaneously and you will often intercept a 3rd survivor. At this point the 4th has to make his move quickly to save people and is often careless, tripping traps in the process. If you interrupt the 4th, you got 2 wounded survivors (aka super nervous about traps) who are easy to hunt down and to keep away from the other 2 out of action.
^^The number of times this has snowballed into a 4 man slug within the first 5 minutes of the game is just too many to count. I've just had tons and tons and TONS of games in a row that end in 4 man slugs in just a few minutes doing this. It depips the entire enemy team.
------------------
Just my personal experience with a lot of hag games.
-
@Beelzeboop said:
I love this idea.
It seems like fairly unique way to implement the offscreen teleportation slasher villains tend to do, while still remaining balanced.
Its not just movies and books that handwave this, but a lot of other smaller multiplayer horror games also feature some kind of fast travel or teleportation mechanic for the killer. In comparison to them, Dead by Daylight is a bit weak on the "we're always worried about the killer". In some ways, DBD feels more like a sports game than a horror games at times when in an SWF currently; I find it less so in other MP horror games.
-
Actually a better idea for that issue after thinking about it for a while:
You would have the killer spawn inside the fog area. Then the spawn distribution of survivors can be 100% random throughout the map with the only logic requirement being that they be a bit beyond lunge distance of the fog wall, center of the map being preferred. In this case, there is no guaranteed situation that they are clumped on the other edge of the map.
-
@Seraphor said:
What if the killer, immediately after spawning, simply turns around, walks through the wall, and appears directly behind the survivors who spawned on the direct opposite side of the map?
Even if that was addressed, I don't think this would be feasible on most maps. However it would be a neat gimmick for a new specific map one day.
If the killer can't see the survivor while in the offmap fog realm, I don't think it'd be used as an early rush or chase mechanic. Survivors would come to know that its good to run away from the fog wall as a precaution though at the start of the map.
If that does become an issue that could make the killer have a 1 or 2 second animation on entering to avoid sudden juke situations before people come back to their keyboard.
-------
It might be a fix for big maps only, but that's what SWF wants to burn for map offerings typically anyways.
-
There are a few commonly tossed around ideas that have been discussed again and again, so I'll try to come up with something radically different:
I think generators should be faster, not slower. The less M1 simulator the game has, the better. However, the killer should have greater power to dictate which generators he wants to defend. For example, let's say that each survivor the killer hooks for the first time allows him to completely reset a completed generator (an incentive not to tunnel and spread out damage).
Right now, survivors have to spend 80 seconds multiplied by 5 for a total of 400 seconds minimum. Let's say generators were 50 seconds instead. 50*5 = 250 seconds of generator time. The killer can potentially reset up to 4 generators for an extra 200 of generator time (1 gen per unique survivor hooked). While faster generators are generally much easier to do for survivors, the killer can potentially choose where he wants to cluster generators in groups of 3 or 4 at a time to apply very strict pressure.
This is just a vague concept, but the goal is to make the objective of generators have much greater tension by forcing tight groupings to defend on the killer's own terms instead of generators being uninteractive objects where they get completed in total isolation on opposite corners of the map. Right now survivors dictate the terms of the game, but something like this might put it in the hands of both sides to control.
-
Using the 3x pwyf agitation and tonic while carrying a survivor example then, making gas a separate multiplicative factor or exponential:
4.6*(1 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.18 )*1.1* (0.8) = ~5.38 m/s
(4.6*(1 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.18 ))^1.065* (0.8) = ~5.51 m/s
As opposed to the ~5.26 by default in the game then.
-
@SkeletalElite said:
This is kind of already the case. A clown affected by the bottle moves at 5.06 m/s or 126.5%
The only part of your post that is wrong is the part about stacking. The way things stacking in DBD works is that all positive modifiers are added together before multiplied onto the base value where as negative multipliers are simply multiplied on sequentially.
So (base value) * (all possitive modifiers added together) * (negative modifier) * (negative modifier) * (negative modifier)
this applies to action speed as well as movement speed, hope that clears things up
In that case, I guess to summarize, I was suggesting that the formula be one of two things then:
(base value) * (all positive modifiers added together) * (gas modifier) * (negative modifier) * (negative modifier)
[(base value) * (all positive modifiers added together)] ^ (gas exponent) * (negative modifier) * (negative modifier)
-------
the end result being that positive modifiers would have an additional amplified effect when under the effect of gas clouds. (no baseline buff to gas in the first case)
-
The other thing I would add is that if we wanted bigger payoff for yellow gas bottles under certain conditions, we could make it an exponential function instead. If the killer makes the stars align, builds up stacks on certain perks, and runs multiple perks together, it can payoff in a significant way.
If yellow antidote bottles had an exponent of ^1.065 movespeed, then:
----------------
Default Killer: 4.6 m/s ^ 1.065 = ~5.08 m/s (127% speed)
Default Survivor: 4 m/s ^ 1.065 = ~4.38 m/s (109.5% speed)
Agitation Perk: 4.32 m/s ^1.065 = ~4.75 m/s (118.75% speed)
3x PWF Perk: 5.29 m/s ^1.065 = ~5.89 m/s (147% speed)
Full M1 Lunge: (4.6 m/s ^ 1.065) * 1.5 = ~7.62 m/s (190% speed)
Lunge+3xPWF: (5.29 m/s ^ 1.065) * 1.5 = 8.84 m/s (221% speed) [big payoff here!!]
----------------
As you can see from the above, everything would still be in reasonable bounds, but with some synergies having a great boost. The tradeoff would be that certain situations where you are slowed (missing lunge attacks for examples) would speed you up much less than 10%.
-
I would also add that the Trickster, who takes a while to takedown someone at range like the Plague, would benefit from having the tactical flexibility to give up a chase. Right now, you as the killer face a huge dilemma to keep eating loops or risk losing a lot of hard won laceration stacks. A lot of people call for laceration to be permanent or decay much slower, but from the perspective of a survivor being chased, making that gameplay change would remove a lot of the rewards for successful long-term dodging and counterplay in chases. A repeat of the Legion situation would be undesirable.
If the trickster decides to give up a chase, laceration stacks that decay naturally could have some minor effect (and with 7x duration applied if he does deplete a healthstate). Just something to turn the time invested into time that's not 100% wasted. Could even be part of his addons to give him multiple ways to build his perks.
-
@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2047072#Comment_2047072
And they’re still some of the worst maps in the game despite being reworked twice.
I think people are going to be extremely disappointed when Haddonfield gets updated.
Using the previous set of urban map reworks, most of the near-infinites are going to be solvable through kickable doors. Unlike the desert map and Bedham that have 1 primary point of interest, Haddonfield has multiple near-identical buildings that will likely need door kicking. It still helps tremendously, but Haddonfield is a favorite for early game gen-rushing because there are so many indoor locations that can be traversed.
Personally, I think the map would benefit from slightly more spacing between buildings, but keeping the map size the same by eliminating some of the edge of map fences (buildings would be the literal corner of the map). Against efficient survivors, you have to eat one series of nasty loops (or kick a bunch of doors post rework) and then repeat the process as they run towards another building. This is how you get 3 gens popping before a survivor is downed at the start of the game.
Less automatically guaranteed multi-building loops would be a good thing in tight chases. Such multi-building play would be better reserved as a reward for skilled juking where the killer loses track of a survivor indoors and gets a sizeable head start as a result.
-
@Xyvielia said:
Agree on all 4 of your points.
Visionary is the laziest attempt at any form of possible effort that could have been put forth by devs to create a decent perk. Preposterously appalling.
Like the perk ideas, I’d only alter/ add to them slightly, such as:
DeJaVu: I’d lessen the necessary time in locker a bit, and make it possible to choose the locker survivor exits from, since randomly exiting from a locker in the general vicinity of the one entered isn’t as perky.
Detective’s Hunch: Scratches stay visible for 7/8/9 seconds
Your Visionary concept is pretty good, and Beginner’s Luck is EXACTLY what devs should have done
The perks could be renamed to better suit their new functions.
...also, Behaviour should consider hiring you as a creativity consultant or sth.
For Deja Vu, I was just wary and erring on the side of caution because I still have PTSD as a killer main from how problematic the initial release of Mettle of Man was as a 2nd chance perk. But you are probably right that the time to activate might be too high as I had originally listed.
-
@Opekyn said:
Clown and Freddy are really different from each other - Freddy is more akin to a Hag or Trapper than a Clown.
That said, Freddy is default stronger than Clown, but a few adjustments would see him in S Tier.
1) Make the "VHS Porn" & "Fingerless Parade Gloves" add-ons default. Clown's biggest issue is mobility, exacerbated by additional slowdowns when reloading bottles.
2) Remove the grunt when vaulting. Seriously, why was this even a thing? Literally no one else makes a noise. I love to know which meeting determined adding this was a necessary investment of time; I'd like to stop these meetings going forward.
3) Fix stupid gas collision at windows. Gas can actually float through windows - I promise you BHVR, it is a thing.
4) Copy another killer's power - Now we are squarely in the BHVR wheelhouse. Do what was done with Doctor's shocks, now make a slightly weaker version apply to being in a gas cloud.
Congrats, you now have a powerful Clown.
Regarding 2). What if you could press a key to trigger the grunt as a mindgame (and suppress future grunts for a brief duration simultaneously)?
-
@Sylorknag said:
Come on guys, you're all just bad.
Clown is clearly just underrated, yet to be played at his full potential by someone. -the devs.
Now, devs, I mean, jokes aside,
What if, just if
Everytime you throw a bottle, you have small window to press the power button again, and throw a dart at the bottle still in the air? Thus making the gas area expand, in the same way that happens when throw a bottle into a tree upright.
It would add some layer of strategy to his bottles, and help him cover a bigger are during a chase.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1565348#Comment_1565348
Hmm, I mean it’s not a terrible idea, but there’s so few maps where there wouldn’t be geometry Clown can throw bottles up high anyway.
But then one has to wonder, if the clown is carrying a bunch of darts in his pocket, why isn't the clown throwing his darts at survivors?
-
From a mechanical standpoint, what would be the difference between jumping over obstacles and just phasing through them like the Nurse does? (would a cyberpunk robot skin for the nurse do the same thing?)
-
@blue4zion said:
4 bottles is more than enough if you can place good bottles. You can't just keep throwing them at the survivor to try and close distance, they need to be used at loops. If you do want to throw a bottle ahead, it seems best to throw it up high and spread the area more. It'll also make it slightly more difficult for the survivor to dodge as they'll have to look up and see where the gas is falling.
Yet as a comparison, there are killers whose powers can be used to close distance and be used at loops (spirit, hillbilly, etc). Many killers have strengths in multiple categories and clown is just a 1-trick pony at loops and he's not even best in class for the single thing he does.
-
@PassarinoT said:
Concept: Clown has an alt ability where he chugs a tonic, curls into a ball, and rolls around map at 200% speed. I think that's fair. Kidding please never make this.
But some kind of effect if he drinks his own potion is a potential way to make him very unique while being thematic to his concept as well.
-
When it comes to perks, I'm baffled at why the devs feel the need to put so many restrictions on indirect utility perks.
Perks that directly impede generator progress or aid in chases or assist in scouting are often the goto perks virtually all builds. But with an indirect perk like knockout, they removed its usefulness from the killers who'd benefit from slugging the most (i.e. those who can 1 hit down).
Instead they should be looking at making utility perks very versatile and perks with more direct effects lean towards situational advantages and less cookie cutter goodness if we want to see more variety in-game.
-
@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
Perhaps he could take a finger off each survivor and have each power the ability more. They would have to change his mori but I think it could work.
I'd imagine that it'd be harder to work on a generator with a missing finger.
-
@slim0b said:
Well we need something to work on his mobility, and reloading bottles is what messes it up.
Clown has 4 bottles and you need to use at least 2-3 to hit an ok looper at a jungle gym. You always run out to get a down on a healthy survivor.
You can easily compare him to doc or huntress, and as you said he just lacks so much. There's a video of Yerv making suggestions, some of the ones below are his.
1- He should have more bottles by default, 5 or 6
2- The whole bottle reload thing should be gone for good and the bottles should recharge passively, 1 bottle/3 sec
3- Gens that he damages should be trapped with a gas cloud, this gas cloud emerges as soon as a survivor touches the gen, and obviously causing them to scream like default. It could act as a built in surveillence
4- Allow gas clouds to also penetrate like 1-2m only on the other side of a wall.
5- Direct bottle hit = 3s exhaustion
It'd help, but to put things into perspective,
1). Freddy doesn't need to reload to begin with
2). Freddy doesn't need to worry about the rate at which snares are placed
3). It'd give the clown some scouting tools, but Freddy's is still more flexible being able to scout doorways.
5). If close range enough to land bottle hits reliably with that arced trajectory, you might as well M1 swing instead.
-
Well a very straightforward way to solve the mathematical problem would be to make lives be shared among ALL survivors. For example, if hooked, so long as your team hasn't exhausted all its lives, you will have a hook struggle. To prevent hook camping, running out of a timer on a hook uses up a life and you keep struggling. Hooking a different survivor each subsequent time could also have a bonus effect of draining 2 lives instead of just one.
But some rebalance would need to be done as it would make the survivor team much stronger.
-
The vanilla perk numbers are just: Time to wiggle free from your grasp is increased by 4/8/12 %. That's 7 meters of extra hook distance at tier 3.
It is bad. I don't even know if pallet protection, and almost double the bonus distance are enough to save it.
-
@Seltas0208 said:
So..... Mad grit just looks like
"survivors can wiggle out easier with a side of preventing body blocking"
The rest of them are fine but that one I don't like
The idea was at least that you run around with Legion feral frenzy speed, but keep the same hooking distance. By itself, its not much, just a minor time saving perk, but could be comboed with other things like agitation for more movement speed, or iron grasp for more time for a rushdown build to down groups of survivors near each other.
Maybe I was too cautious on the numbers, but what would it take to make such a rushdown build viable?
-
@NullSp3c said:
I love all the other ideas except the fact that Montrous Shrine spawns a random portal anywhere on the map because that portal must be very important for the killer and shouldn't be dependant on RNG.
And I think that the duration of Knock Out's broken effect should be increased to 20/30/40 seconds, because it has some potential like that.
Maybe the first non-basement hook used could turn into a shrine by the entity once the survivor is rescued. Then it becomes a gateway to traverse the map or hook survivors in the basement.
-
@Aura_babyy said:
I like a whole lot of these.
Teleporting for survivors and killers who are not Freddy or demi is a bit weird but more of a funny.
The insidious one is a bit icky because it's pretty much discount spirit. Here's my suggestion for that
Insidious;
Hooking a survivor will grant the undetectable status for x/x/x seconds.
The insidious idea comes from a Rank 1 Doctor I saw who used insidious to trick people at gens. He would stand next to generators and trick people into thinking he was an illusion. Even after starting the generator, he would still stand there for a few seconds. I fell for it and got grabbed to my surprise.
-----
Temporary undetectable is another potential way to go about it too.
-
@Revansith said:
I would like to see more matches pop quicker for lower ranks as right now new players, or players trying out killer get dispirited if they have to wait twenty minutes for a match compared to survivor which tends to pop instantly in comparison.
But as regards your proposal, what if each killer that was considered weaker was given an add on to compensate for their perceive weakness.
The only caveat to that is that there are stacking interactions that need to be taken into account.
Like a green, yellow, and a brown addon that stacks. The clown bottle fiasco and the mend time addons on legion come to mind as previous examples where that was an issue.
-
Sabo as a concept certainly needs adjustment. I could see something like this as complementing it.
-
@Edilibs said:
I dont like your suggestion about Insidious. You already get penalized for activating the perk next to or near a hook because of the changes to the ranking system. If you get a basement hook then that can give you a lead to a bad situation (gen rush for instance) so it should not be nerfed
The new insidious as shown here still allows for basement strategies. Instead of sitting still near the hook, you can instead pretend to move away a little bit, stand still, and then double back to patrol the basement with no terror radius and repeat.
Being able to patrol around the basement with no terror radius periodically is more powerful in my opinion but requires more finesse on the part of the killer to fool survivors..
-
@Micheal_Myers said:
The only thing I disagree with is how you nerfed Unrelenting..
Since Unrelenting is literally the only perk (besides save the best for last) that decreases your recovery time. So having the recovery time increased would make the perk more useless. But, I understand having more of a lunge would be nice for killers like:
-Freddy
-Huntress
-The Pig
-Etc.
So instead of Nerfing Unrelenting just make another perk that Combats it?
Example:
Killer Perk:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/399/MTKGBHJK2XIY.jpg
I could see this as a separate perk. But, not a buff to unrelenting.
So I fixed it for you ;)
Name of the Perk obviously needs to be re-decided but either way I think a new perk would work =P
A lot of people (or at least my understanding of the general consensus) see the vanilla unrelenting as a very weak perk.
But if there is a playstyle that wants the old relenting effect, they could just merge into a perk like Fire Up for example where it affects picking up, dropping, pallet breaking, generator damaging, vaulting, AND missed attack cooldowns.
Edit: List updated with Fire-up and Tinkerer
-
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
I kinda wanna make a Survivor version of this now.
Making a list for survivors is a tricky beast.
BHVR has themselves in a balance corner because many of the survivor S tier perks are 2nd chance perks that have a super powerful sudden effect (see sprint burst).
To get a lot of perks on equal caliber would mean printing a lot of 2nd chances or things that prolong killer chases.
------
But a lot of their perks could still be made more "fun" with wacky things.
-
After brainstorming a bit more, do you folks think this might be better?
Think of all the times that killer shack window caused you so much grief. Would you spend a perk slot to get rid of it?
-----
Added iron grasp to the list as well.
-
I don't know if I phrased it well, but currently the mist is modified by bottle offerings. I was thinking something along the lines of: the effects of 5 of these offerings are burned with this perk, but it renders less for the killer. Then each generator completed removes 1 bottle offering's worth of effect.
I assumed it was particle effect. I don't know actually.
-
Updated with knockout + deerstalker.
-
@Boss said:
Btw, are there any Perks that you do consider meh, but didn't put on here for whatever reason?
While brainstorming, I went through and made a list containing most perks, but I didn't bother to post every single one as I thought at the last moment that some were TOO radical and might be potentially broken/problematic.
For example:
SURPRISE, REMEMBER ME??
--------
I don't know, would survivors find this fun as well?