fluffybunny
fluffybunny
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@Nea_Death_Experience said:
Did anyone else think there were only 5 gens. Took me so many hours to learn there were more.I think I didn't realize there was more than 5 back then.
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We could do something constructive instead. For instance, reward a killer for switching targets and going on independent chases, rather than guarding kills. That reward could be either monetary gain (BP) or in the form of extra help (affected generator times for initiating chases with new victims).
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If you have your settings on Ultra, change it to Low. It makes the game darker for some reason.
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Mine's Wraith because I like the hidden element of his character. I also like Pig 'cause squeak. x3
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Killers are getting buff 'cause survivors are already in a very good position. DS is a crutch that brings low ranks players into the higher ranks. We should be glad it's getting changed. We don't know if the meta's going to change to be more of a slug meta until we test it, too. By all means if killers start slugging more with the change, then complain. Change is scary, but sometimes it's for the better.
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What rank are you? Timing is important for balance. I see plenty of people who have no issues going for pallet stuns. Just because you're impatient, doesn't mean it should change. Not everything is a handout. Work for it.
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There's a lot of benefits to playing killer. It's a change of pace from survivor. You don't have to rely on others to be competent and you ultimately decide what kind of killer you're going to be, so there's some solace in that. You get quite a lot of BP, too. I would recommend picking up LF if you haven't gotten him yet. ^^ I know of people who will play as killer while solo and have been told by some that they prefer killer since you don't have to rely on others with killer.
May I ask what rank you are as killer? If you get a team who're all solid, it's just quite unlucky, though there's still counters to them. A lot of times you'll find weak links in your matches. People who throw down pallets at the drop of a hat are great, for instance. I'll follow one for a bit and then break off them to chase the other people (who often expect the pallets to still be there and will have less to work with).
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@HatCreature said:
@fluffybunny said:
@HatCreature said:
@fluffybunny said:
@HatCreature said:
@DexyIV @fluffybunny I've edited the discussion to reflect a better idea.Well, I believe DS is supposed to be part of a kit. With Laurie, you have someone who'll see you who you will see when she looks at you. That's technically a downside. Her other two perks are balanced around that. DS is to discourage killers from tunneling you while you're weak and her other perk can help her hide her aura, even while looking at you. Both of these don't have downsides, but a condition will need to be met for all of her perks to work. If you DS and the killer has a perk that would encourage them to kill you off, they very well might. I think it's supposed to be a tango between the killer perks and the survivor ones.
Well yeah it already is but I'm saying of the Devs want the Obsession switching between Survivors with DS then maybe there should be a risk/penalty that goes with it, otherwise it being an Obsession perk is meaningless. If the perk doesn't get a downside to it then maybe it shouldn't be an Obsession perk and just be a normal thing.
Could they make it a non-obsession perk, despite it being Laurie's? It'd be on par with something like BT or Unbreakable if that's the case, then, and you wouldn't get the mess of switching obsessions.
In the Q&A they have one of the designers say that the Obsession part of the perk isn't necessary anymore but they kept it in anyway and could be taken out if needed.
I'm bad with keeping up with the Q&A. Thank you for letting me know! I think it'd be best if it was no longer considered an obsession perk so that it wouldn't mess with who's the obsession and so on. It could really screw it for certain perks if there was suddenly a new obsession (like dying light) and that way, it would be doing what they were intending (work as a anti-tunneling sort of perk).
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There is no grass.
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Everything should require the proper butt wiggle dance.
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Someone could have BT or have a good plan for blocking. That would screw over players who are just trying to get someone off the hook for a second chance, for instance. I hadn't thought of what @EntityDispleased and @Sprinkles mentioned, but I could see that being an issue regarding SWF and dampening the experience even more for solo, too.
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@HatCreature said:
@fluffybunny said:
@HatCreature said:
@DexyIV @fluffybunny I've edited the discussion to reflect a better idea.Well, I believe DS is supposed to be part of a kit. With Laurie, you have someone who'll see you who you will see when she looks at you. That's technically a downside. Her other two perks are balanced around that. DS is to discourage killers from tunneling you while you're weak and her other perk can help her hide her aura, even while looking at you. Both of these don't have downsides, but a condition will need to be met for all of her perks to work. If you DS and the killer has a perk that would encourage them to kill you off, they very well might. I think it's supposed to be a tango between the killer perks and the survivor ones.
Well yeah it already is but I'm saying of the Devs want the Obsession switching between Survivors with DS then maybe there should be a risk/penalty that goes with it, otherwise it being an Obsession perk is meaningless. If the perk doesn't get a downside to it then maybe it shouldn't be an Obsession perk and just be a normal thing.
Could they make it a non-obsession perk, despite it being Laurie's? It'd be on par with something like BT or Unbreakable if that's the case, then, and you wouldn't get the mess of switching obsessions.
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@HatCreature said:
@DexyIV @fluffybunny I've edited the discussion to reflect a better idea.Well, I believe DS is supposed to be part of a kit. With Laurie, you have someone who'll see you who you will see when she looks at you. That's technically a downside. Her other two perks are balanced around that. DS is to discourage killers from tunneling you while you're weak and her other perk can help her hide her aura, even while looking at you. Both of these don't have downsides, but a condition will need to be met for all of her perks to work. If you DS and the killer has a perk that would encourage them to kill you off, they very well might. I think it's supposed to be a tango between the killer perks and the survivor ones.
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The downside is being the Obsession. If the killer has a perk that would encourage them killer you off and tunneling you, you're the target. It will also have conditions that will have to be met with the update where it doesn't have any at this moment.
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@Cymer said:
It's truly funny and the camps in survivors are split in half.
One side is acting like their life blood is getting taken away, the others are saying they don't even use DS.So either DS was so overpower that too many rely on it or it was in an ok state and nobody really uses it.
In both cases a change was necessary.
If it's a core perk in every survivor build it is clearly too strong and needed adjustments.
If it wasn't that strong and barely someone took it, why will it be missed?Are the survivors really upset or is it just the human mind who entirely dislikes any form of change, be it good or bad.
I realize you're probably only generalizing survivor mains based on those who are a 100% survivor main (or near to that), but I'm happy with the change. The perk feels unfair and can be unfun to go against in its current change and with this coming tweak, at least it'll be reliant on factors beforehand and be (possibly) somewhat of a counter to something unpleasant rather than just a counter to going down. Hidden DS is also atrocious and can be a huge time waster, which time is very important for killer.
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@The_Crusader said:
I'm surprised Tydetyme asked for it to be longer, he's always come across as a killer main.You have 60 seconds from unhook. You can spend 15-20 seconds running to the edge of the map, and do a 40 second self-care with mangled applied in that time. It's actually far beyond what you need. What kind of tunneling killer ever gives a survivor that much time? they always go for the tunnel before you're healed.
If you get unhooked as survivor and someone heals you with We'll Make It, you'd have like 40 seconds of immunity that you don't even need.
I mean you've got....
- not_queen announcing a blog post
- The blog post
- A follow up Q&A
- A new Q&A today from Patricia
- Tydetyme made a vid
- Truetalent did a reaction video and he never does that
- Ardetha made a video
- People joining the forums just to comment on it
- An entire front page of the forums filled with threads about this new change
Does anyone think there would be this kind of reaction if Botany or Spine chill got changed? no. The fact that DS has drawn this much attention tells you that there was a major [BAD WORD] problem with this perk lol
All I'm saying is that it can't be any longer because then it steps into old DS territory and that is never allowed to happen. The devs say they tried 2 mins internally and it went there so yeah, glad they didn't go through with that in the final version.
Isn't Tyde a both type of main? I know he typically complains about issues for the killer base, but I see him playing both. I think it would depend on positioning, though you technically have a chance if you aren't downed immediately. I'm not sure about making it longer. I've seen people suggesting making it like BT where it could be used twice per match if the killer chooses to tunnel. I've also heard concerns about the affects it could have on perks for creating a new obsession with every use, though I'm guessing it was made this way so that anyone can use it. We'll have to see how it goes in the PTB.
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@ClogWench said:
Shockingly I agree with you on this. Honestly I'm excited to actually use DS now when I play survivorI'm excited for the change. ^^
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While playing solo, you don't control the quality of your team and you can't communicate. I could literally get all totems but one and the last one could remain standing 'cause the one working on the gen didn't bother with the last totem that was literally right next to them. They probably didn't know there was only one left and there's no way I could tell them, either. Additionally, survivors are told to rush gens when killers camp, but that often leaves the survivors with little time to do anything else (depending on the circumstance) and that's somehow their fault?
Killers act like solo players can choose who they play with. They treat every survivor like they're swf, so might as well buff solo players so that that can be true. c: Since people are gonna generalize and assume, anyway.
Another issue people have with NOED is it's like an easy mode unlocked with a perk. Bad at a certain killer? NOED can help. Can't loop well? NOED to the rescue! Going to camp? Put on NOED and enjoy the kills. It's especially strong with solo players, even if there's a duo SWF.
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I think it'd be nice to recycle items/add-ons/offerings we don't like/use! Think of the environment.
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NOED? = Bring small game or SWF, also don't travel in groups end game
Ruin? = Same as above or just learn to do skill checks
Camped? = BT (SWF), Breakdown, Sprint Burst/Dead Hard, loop while alive and do whatever you can to avoid going downHatch = slug for 4k, find survivor before they find hatch or play the waiting game
Looped/in a strong area? = switch targets, bring in Enduring to feel safer swinging through pallets, Bamboozle to counter some window loops
Inta-heals?=Franky's also helps
Gen rushed? = Discordance can also helpJust some addition stuff! ^^
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Some people like playing as Killer.
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While it may seem like survivors are getting all the nerfs, you have to realize survivors can be quite powerful. Multiple DS could be daunting as is and killers can really take a hit to their momentum thanks to a perk that can't be countered (especially if it's a hidden DS). In the past, it was balanced largely in the survivor's favor and the team is trying to fix that to give killers a less stressful match. There's plenty that still needs to be fixed for both sides, yes. They can only focus on a few issues at a time, though. I hope they'll address SWF averaging out the ranks. If you're rank 1, you shouldn't be put against a lower rank 'cause your buddy is rank 10 or higher. I also think reaching rank 1 should have rewards tied to it like shards or something else for each rank reset period to encourage people to stay up there.
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@AshleyWB said:
@EntitledSurvivor Typical entitled survivors.I mean, it's in the name.
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@fcc2014 said:
@ToxicFengM1n said:
Nerfing DS like it needed, it was Overpowered now its weaker than before
It isn't really. Here is why. Every killer who tunnels now has to worry about getting hit with DS. They will have to wait 60's to pick them up or waste a perk slot for Enduring. Killers can't even guess anymore by having an obsession. Lots can be done in 60's in this game. Generators, healing up, hook breaking that area, getting in position for flashlight saves, assembling to body block etc... Survivors constantly adapt to changes. Everyone is celebrating on here just like they did for the exhaustion and self-care nerf . Most considered this to be the next step to nerf survivors and get 4k's every match. This just made every killer that tunnels and a large amount(not all do) much weaker as they will have to decide if they want to pick that survivor up or wait. @not_Queen @Patricia @Giddawid I really hope that your team considered the counter play to this.
This change gives an addition counter to tunneling someone off the hook, but takes away some of the unfun aspects of killer imo. You will no longer have to worry about the fresh person you chased down having a hidden DS as you're taking them to the hook. You no longer have to worry about leaving someone on the ground after spending a good amount of time chasing them just because they're obsession. As someone who doesn't typically tunnel, I don't see this change as an issue. I can see the benefit of this change for both sides.
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@CreeRoyalty said:
Lately, I've enjoyed playing as a killer now versus survivor. Killers are becoming more and more OP and gain 10k more bloodpoints on average each round so it's easier to level up. Ruin, Thanatophobia, BBQ and Chili, and No One Escapes Death are all you need to dominate survivors with any loadout. Not sure why killer mains are crying about nerfing survivor perks. In a random match, killers should dominate survivors. The only hope survivors have is Survive With Friends and even then, killers have it made. I play as both killer and survivor and if you main killers and think survivors are OP...what's the old saying?...."get gud". Whatever. Even Spies From the Shadows or Bitter Murmur give you a major advantage. I dominate matches with level 1 killers all the time. Why do you think you see more and more survivors dc'ing? The hatch is all they have.Oh, so you weren't playing as a killer versus killers? Good to know. C:
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@Delfador said:
@fluffybunny said:
Do you feel it's been worse lately and what do you feel is the cause of it?
Bud believe it or not, I don't have a problem with NOED as a survivor. Detective's hunch is one of my main perks and I am pretty sure that I have prevented NOED getting activated in the last 30-40 matches (don't know if the killers used it or not, I just got rid of all the totems)
NOED just makes weak killers like trapper stronger and I don't want to rely on that perk. It alters the stats and gives us a false image of weak but balanced killers. That's my problem.
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant with regards to what you were talking about and not NOED. I have hunches on what may be making it more difficult as of recent, but I would be assuming. I'm just curious on what others are experiencing from both Survivor and Killer perspectives. EDIT: Didn't the Trapper get a buff recently? Was it not enough?
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Burn baby burn!
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@Delfador said:
@fluffybunny said:
I don't really think it's good design to have to rely on a perk to make up for the weakness in some of the cast. I think it's also different with Billy 'cause you often know when the one-down is coming and the turning often isn't perfect. Though I'm sure some who complain about NOED also complain about Billy. I've played with people who really didn't like Billy, but I like Billy. He's like vroom and whoosh and stuff.
That's my main problem with NOED actually.
If some killers need NOED, then buff them.
If gen rush is a problem, and it is, then do something about gen rush.
For me, NOED is one of the most boring perks in the entire game and I find it super boring to use Ruin or NOED every other game as a killer but I don't have any choice at the moment.
Do you feel it's been worse lately and what do you feel is the cause of it?
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@fluffybunny said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
I don't agree with NOED giving you an easy mode as you do have drawbacks to it. You are literately giving up a perk for the majority of the game except the last bit of end game. It being both cleansable and having no effect through the majority of the game i would argue isn't a horrible balance. A little tweaking perhaps could be done. It suggests to me more a change of strategies though, that stealth becomes the more desired style once those gates are powered.
People often use it if they don't have good perks, aren't used to/comfortable with a killer, or are generally bad. We have cases where the killer kinda needs it 'cause they need a buff, but those are cases where I've seen people using the perk. Personally, I don't usually care if NOED is used. It's annoying on good killers (like Nurse or Billy), but you can usually sense it coming a mile away. I just know some have issues with it 'cause it gives people an easy kill at the very least, even if they play the game poorly. I've seen people compare it to Adrenaline. Do you think that would be a more apt comparison?
Hmm perhaps so, and I can see the hate for it in lower rank especially. Not quite sure why Billy would have it since he has so much map pressure and a 1 hit KO already, but on the nurse yeah.
I don't usually see him have it. Not very often, at least. That 1 hit down is quite nice for him.
But it's a NOED that can't be removed, is active the entire match from the first second to the last, and comes with a huge speed boost! See the issue? NOED gives less competitive killers a means to average out their kills. Without NOED you can believe camping would reach new heights.The first caught is going to die in many cases.
Did you quote the wrong person?
No. Billy has a permanent Super NOED the entire match. There will be future killers with 1 hit downs. There are others who can run addons to do it. The only killers that need NOED are the ones without and genuinely do need a 1 hit down ability.
I don't really think it's good design to have to rely on a perk to make up for the weakness in some of the cast. I think it's also different with Billy 'cause you often know when the one-down is coming and the turning often isn't perfect. Though I'm sure some who complain about NOED also complain about Billy. I've played with people who really didn't like Billy, but I like Billy. He's like vroom and whoosh and stuff.
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You couldn't go around him?
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@KingB said:
Edit: I'm an idiot.No, it's okay. Some of what was mentioned is kind of confusing.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@fluffybunny said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
I don't agree with NOED giving you an easy mode as you do have drawbacks to it. You are literately giving up a perk for the majority of the game except the last bit of end game. It being both cleansable and having no effect through the majority of the game i would argue isn't a horrible balance. A little tweaking perhaps could be done. It suggests to me more a change of strategies though, that stealth becomes the more desired style once those gates are powered.
People often use it if they don't have good perks, aren't used to/comfortable with a killer, or are generally bad. We have cases where the killer kinda needs it 'cause they need a buff, but those are cases where I've seen people using the perk. Personally, I don't usually care if NOED is used. It's annoying on good killers (like Nurse or Billy), but you can usually sense it coming a mile away. I just know some have issues with it 'cause it gives people an easy kill at the very least, even if they play the game poorly. I've seen people compare it to Adrenaline. Do you think that would be a more apt comparison?
Hmm perhaps so, and I can see the hate for it in lower rank especially. Not quite sure why Billy would have it since he has so much map pressure and a 1 hit KO already, but on the nurse yeah.
I don't usually see him have it. Not very often, at least. That 1 hit down is quite nice for him.
But it's a NOED that can't be removed, is active the entire match from the first second to the last, and comes with a huge speed boost! See the issue? NOED gives less competitive killers a means to average out their kills. Without NOED you can believe camping would reach new heights.The first caught is going to die in many cases.
Did you quote the wrong person?
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@HatCreature said:
@fluffybunny The comparison to Adrenaline sounds spot on, it's the Killer equivalent to NOED, Adreanline rewards Survivors for Surviving and NOED saves Killers from failing giving them both one last chance and both could potentially be wasted perks never being used. I can see how people compare DS to NOED but Adrenaline sounds closer to it since they both have similar counters.Yeah, with killer their NOED could be countered with cleansing (or they just failed to catch anyone) and with Adrenaline, they could have been fully healed on a gen and therefore not needing the insta-heal. I know a lot of people feel Adrenaline comes in clutch and is very good. I think it's more mild when compared to DS, though still strong.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
One gets DS'd by a bad survivor because a good killer has downed that bad survivor and that good killer can do nothing but eat the DS. The bad survivor had to have been caught by the bad killer to have NOED affect them. You really failed in epic fashion with that one. Last I checked moving faster doesn't reveal the location of a hidden survivor in these huge maps we have. I think maybe it's those bad survivors rushing to the gates that get them caught. While complex perhaps more caution in choosing when to and which gate to exit is a possible counter if cleansing gens is too much to ask.
My point was that it's thanks to a perk it happened. It's entirely possible the killer is already in a chase. Otherwise, they can go to the doors or look around the gens. There really isn't a reason for survivors to be away from the door unless they weren't paying attention to where it was or are looking for hatch, I guess. I'm just saying what I and others have noticed. While NOED isn't always used by bad killers, it does give them an easier time where they may not need to learn as much to get higher in the ranks. A slight tweak wouldn't hurt, though I personally don't care when NOED is present (but I don't use it) and it's nice for end game builds.
And there is nothing wrong with that. You speak as if the slightest hint of an easier time, while playing with three perks all match by the way, is somehow a bridge too far when as a survivor the ENTIRE GAME is easy for you. Nevermind SWF and VOIP.
Don't even bring up ranks. 95% of this community's survivors would not get past rank 5, maybe even 10, if not for SWF. Period. And the people know this which is why they even stand against having it removed from ranked. They wouldn't be able to delude themselves they are above mediocre without cheating their way up the ladder.
Perhaps if you have a set up, that would impact it, but as long as your other three perks are decent enough to make up for it, you should be fine. For instance if you ran Nurses, BBQ, Hex: Ruin, and NOED, you probably would be fine, even if you went most of the game without a perk. If you don't have Hex: Ruin, there are other perks that are helpful in knowing where to apply pressure or where survivors may be. I personally wouldn't flame someone for using NOED as it's a perk and it's well within their rights to use something for the possibility of an easier match end game. By that point, you generally get enough points, anyway, unless the killer camps and stuff. It's also useful for end game builds specifically.
You can usually tell who is being carried by something and who isn't, though, and that was the point I was making. I'm aware SWF can bring people far up the ranks, even though they wouldn't be up there in solo play. I know it doesn't seem fair to you with how the system is currently set up. Honestly they need to give solo players buffs to contest with SWF and buff killers to address both. I think the issue currently is that any buff given to killer would basically be making a no-win scenario for solo players who may lack the communication and the coordination. Often while solo, you're left on a hook and not usually thanks to camping. I will say that much. People like playing with their friends, though. I know some people who only play killer when they don't have people to play with. Do you think they'd be up for making SWF a non-ranked mode if they still acquired BP? I still think it'd be better to buff killers to address SWF 'cause otherwise you'd have a headache somewhere.
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@TeaLeaf said:
@fluffybunny said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
I don't agree with NOED giving you an easy mode as you do have drawbacks to it. You are literately giving up a perk for the majority of the game except the last bit of end game. It being both cleansable and having no effect through the majority of the game i would argue isn't a horrible balance. A little tweaking perhaps could be done. It suggests to me more a change of strategies though, that stealth becomes the more desired style once those gates are powered.
People often use it if they don't have good perks, aren't used to/comfortable with a killer, or are generally bad. We have cases where the killer kinda needs it 'cause they need a buff, but those are cases where I've seen people using the perk. Personally, I don't usually care if NOED is used. It's annoying on good killers (like Nurse or Billy), but you can usually sense it coming a mile away. I just know some have issues with it 'cause it gives people an easy kill at the very least, even if they play the game poorly. I've seen people compare it to Adrenaline. Do you think that would be a more apt comparison?
Hmm perhaps so, and I can see the hate for it in lower rank especially. Not quite sure why Billy would have it since he has so much map pressure and a 1 hit KO already, but on the nurse yeah.
I don't usually see him have it. Not very often, at least. That 1 hit down is quite nice for him.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
One gets DS'd by a bad survivor because a good killer has downed that bad survivor and that good killer can do nothing but eat the DS. The bad survivor had to have been caught by the bad killer to have NOED affect them. You really failed in epic fashion with that one. Last I checked moving faster doesn't reveal the location of a hidden survivor in these huge maps we have. I think maybe it's those bad survivors rushing to the gates that get them caught. While complex perhaps more caution in choosing when to and which gate to exit is a possible counter if cleansing gens is too much to ask.
My point was that it's thanks to a perk it happened. It's entirely possible the killer is already in a chase. Otherwise, they can go to the doors or look around the gens. There really isn't a reason for survivors to be away from the door unless they weren't paying attention to where it was or are looking for hatch, I guess. I'm just saying what I and others have noticed. While NOED isn't always used by bad killers, it does give them an easier time where they may not need to learn as much to get higher in the ranks. A slight tweak wouldn't hurt, though I personally don't care when NOED is present (but I don't use it) and it's nice for end game builds.
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@TeaLeaf said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
I don't agree with NOED giving you an easy mode as you do have drawbacks to it. You are literately giving up a perk for the majority of the game except the last bit of end game. It being both cleansable and having no effect through the majority of the game i would argue isn't a horrible balance. A little tweaking perhaps could be done. It suggests to me more a change of strategies though, that stealth becomes the more desired style once those gates are powered.
People often use it if they don't have good perks, aren't used to/comfortable with a killer, or are generally bad. We have cases where the killer kinda needs it 'cause they need a buff, but those are cases where I've seen people using the perk. Personally, I don't usually care if NOED is used. It's annoying on good killers (like Nurse or Billy), but you can usually sense it coming a mile away. I just know some have issues with it 'cause it gives people an easy kill at the very least, even if they play the game poorly. I've seen people compare it to Adrenaline. Do you think that would be a more apt comparison?
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@Tarvesh said:
fluffybunny said:@Tarvesh said:
I completely agree. This DS change wasn’t a nerf. It was an extreme buff.
Adding a caveat doesn’t stop it from being able to reward a survivor for losing a chase. But making it so that it essentially wipes almost every obsession perk a killer can have up to four times a game just cranked up it power dozens of times over.
If it wasn’t OP before, it sure as hell is now.
I don't know how anyone thinks it's a buff. Have you never faced DS in a match? Most end up leaving the survivor on the ground 'cause they don't want to mess with it or they juggle if they can manage it. A lot will even avoid chasing after a survivor as it's a free escape. With a caveat, it's no longer free. Certain circumstances have to play out for you to be able to use it now. That's like saying Unbreakable is OP 'cause it gives you a free up, but the killer left the person on the ground. They could have not and that perk would be useless. It also counters an annoying aspect of the game, especially in solo play. Being that person who's tunneled off hook because either people can't do good saves or the killer assumes you're in a SWF and wants to punish that sucks. Having something that counters being downed after being unhooked in bad places is great. You don't need to tunnel the survivor. If you don't wait around the survivor, you won't see DS at all. If you wait around the survivor, you'll only see it if you decide to take out the easier target, rather than the one who did the save. It's like some people don't know what "OP" and "buff" means.
Changing the obsession will be weird, though. I say it's not needed.
It’s almost like you can’t correlate adding DS and a multi-perk reset ability being combined together makes it OP/buff.
Comprehension is hard, I know. It’s ok.
Did you even bother to read what I said? Comprehension is hard, but apparently reading is harder.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
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@Tarvesh said:
I completely agree. This DS change wasn’t a nerf. It was an extreme buff.Adding a caveat doesn’t stop it from being able to reward a survivor for losing a chase. But making it so that it essentially wipes almost every obsession perk a killer can have up to four times a game just cranked up it power dozens of times over.
If it wasn’t OP before, it sure as hell is now.
I don't know how anyone thinks it's a buff. Have you never faced DS in a match? Most end up leaving the survivor on the ground 'cause they don't want to mess with it or they juggle if they can manage it. A lot will even avoid chasing after a survivor as it's a free escape. With a caveat, it's no longer free. Certain circumstances have to play out for you to be able to use it now. That's like saying Unbreakable is OP 'cause it gives you a free up, but the killer left the person on the ground. They could have not and that perk would be useless. It also counters an annoying aspect of the game, especially in solo play. Being that person who's tunneled off hook because either people can't do good saves or the killer assumes you're in a SWF and wants to punish that sucks. Having something that counters being downed after being unhooked in bad places is great. You don't need to tunnel the survivor. If you don't wait around the survivor, you won't see DS at all. If you wait around the survivor, you'll only see it if you decide to take out the easier target, rather than the one who did the save. It's like some people don't know what "OP" and "buff" means.
Changing the obsession will be weird, though. I say it's not needed.
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Good job! That's awesome.
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I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.
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I may or may not, depends. I won't feel as dirty if I were to use it, though. It's more on the same level as unbreakable now.
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I quite like the change. It feels more fair for it to have prerequisites and to have a time limit, too. That way you won't have killers afraid to pick up an obsession because they may have DS and you won't get those hidden DSs throwing off your pressure.
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@ShrekIsHot said:
@fluffybunny said:
Bad computers can impact performance. The complaint about KYF people "bossing" you around is laughable. You chose to play with them and there's no points involved. Often they won't use certain items, themselves, and if you really have an issue with it, don't play with them. There's absolutely no reason to complain about what you choose to subject yourself to on the forums.If they go for an insta-save and don't give you a chance to move away, that's on them and a bad play by them. Camping isn't against the rules, anyway, and they're just being delusional. Survivors can't camp gens, though, and if they keep going back to one you're pressuring, that's typically a bad play by them unless others are working on other gens, too.
While playing against a killer, he had StBfL and I was the obsession because no one had an obsession perk. I was playing solo and when end game came, the other person DCed to try to give me hatch. When the chat came, I was called names and he flamed us both, assuming with were SWF and (seemingly?) that I had DS.
Trust me, I regretted it, I didn't talk to them after that but right you are on the kyf.
If someone gives me red flags, I'm very likely to bounce. I'm also fussy, so I'd refuse to go in without a counter if they could just bring in flashlights. I mean you could still bring in light born or overwhelming presence, but it's not very nice when they make rules that you have to follow that they do not. At that point, I'd probably tell one of the others to play killer or just leave. Sounds like they were just trying to pick on you or something.
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A buff? Shall we remind you that the current DS has no prerequisites and can be used from the start of the match. You can also waste time getting someone to a hook just for them to have a hidden DS.
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Bad computers can impact performance. The complaint about KYF people "bossing" you around is laughable. You chose to play with them and there's no points involved. Often they won't use certain items, themselves, and if you really have an issue with it, don't play with them. There's absolutely no reason to complain about what you choose to subject yourself to on the forums.
If they go for an insta-save and don't give you a chance to move away, that's on them and a bad play by them. Camping isn't against the rules, anyway, and they're just being delusional. Survivors can't camp gens, though, and if they keep going back to one you're pressuring, that's typically a bad play by them unless others are working on other gens, too.
While playing against a killer, he had StBfL and I was the obsession because no one had an obsession perk. I was playing solo and when end game came, the other person DCed to try to give me hatch. When the chat came, I was called names and he flamed us both, assuming with were SWF and (seemingly?) that I had DS.
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Isn't what the OP saying is that it priorizes mending self over taking someone off the hook. If someone's camping and you're attempting to do a swap, that would mean you wouldn't be able to because of deep wound. No other killer has this potential. There is an issue with self-care similar to this where it prioritizes healing yourself with you're injured, rather than pulling someone off the hook.
It's a QoL update and nothing else. People who are acting like it'll increase camping are confused. It's about it working smoothly and not being janky.
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@ShyN3ko said:
@fluffybunny said:
It isn't. I've had games where my key was in the last box I check.Was the RBT active?
Most of the time, yes. The box is chosen at random when the helmet is applied. Most of the add-ons that affect the boxes either make it longer to take off or add another box to check through. It's usually based on luck if you get the right box the first time.
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It isn't. I've had games where my key was in the last box I check.