Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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No worries. It is always risky to use the term everyone, because it is never correct. :)
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
Using filters and stretched revolution isn't bannable. Everyone use em all the time.
I would not use the word "everyone" in this context. A lot of people don't use them as they are and jury-rigged advantage. Myself, I would never use them, as I personally consider them a cheat.
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I don't know that "many" people do want Springtrap. These threads pop up now and then and always have a very weird synergy to them. It is like a guerilla advertising campaign, created by the owners of the rights to Springtrap to try and get DbD to come make them an offer. I could care less about Springtrap one way or another. I'm just saying I've read all these threads and I never get the impression there is truly a lot of people that want this. I hear a lot more people asking for Chucky, Pinhead, Sam (from Trick'R'Treat), etc. And of course everyone wants Jason Voorhees. I'm not the only person who has had this reaction to these posts either.
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There needs to be a third option if this Poll is to have any gravity, i.e. "tweak" OoO. :)
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@DeliciousFood said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1784272#Comment_1784272
I don't think survivors doing this is tryhard or toxic. Unless there's consistent coordination, which would only make this sweaty if anything, it's something that survivors try to do just as much as you try to kill them. There's a lot of points involved in protection hits (bodyblocking) and making saves, as well as challenges involving those things. Besides, killers should be paying attention to their surroundings, and such actions come at the cost of more than one survivor not being on a generator.
Unlike, say, slugging when you're already steamrolling. It doesn't give any points nor is there any sort of challenge requiring you to beat down broken teams. That's not to say slugging is bad practice, it isn't. It's great pressure. But it's usually overkill when there's a DC or a clear skill disparity in the solo team.
Also, easy mode? Just chase normally, lol. Even sweat in your mindgames. I'm just hoping killers don't party wipe instantly because they simply can. It's usually more fun if survivors get some interaction with the killer.
Hypocritical. There is no difference between the two situations that the person you responded to laid out. YOU are part of the problem. You seem to want deference given by the Killer when another Survivor bails on you, but clearly don't see any reason Survivors should give deference to the Killer. Like I said, hypocritical. The CORRECT answer is that neither Killer nor Survivors owe each other anything aside from:
- Don't cheat, either by hack or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Follow these three simple rules as you meet the bare minimum of being a good sport, and won't be a hypocrite. One can CHOOSE to go further, but such concessions should never be expected, nor should people be given grief/shame if they choose not to go further.
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@NotACompPlayer said:
I see a lot of threads complaining about tbagging, clicking etc. Do people genuinely get mad at those?
It doesn't affect your gameplay at all while you are playing killer, it's literally just someone pressing ctrl/m2 with no impact on the gameplay.
If anything to me getting bmed is funny because i already know i'm gonna down them in like 10s max. Why do people get upset and BM?
I don't get upset about clicking. That is just part of the game. I consider Tea-Bagging very bad manners and part of unsporting behavior. It is no different from someone flipping you the bird while playing Tennis, or grabbing their crotch and making the gesture that says eat this jerk. Does it do me any damage? No. It is, however, detrimental to the community on the whole, and thus indirectly hurts us all. Bad sportsmanship is not something to be ignored, condoned, or engaged in. The same people who Tea-Bag often engage in after match chatter which is full of foul language, hate speech, and so on. *Mind you not all Tea-Baggers do, but it is certainly a healthy number. At least I can report them for that. My own view is the followings:
- Don't cheat, either with hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Engaging in foul behaviors in the real world (sports or games) gets you ejected, and for good reason. Games are made up of groups of people and being respectful is the bare minimum we should expect from each other.
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@UkilledLegion said:
i think survivors must found clocks without aura because they can wake up brake gen or wake up from each other.
Because Freddy is strong enough already? :)
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@Parazitul said:
can you get banned for using stretched resolution ? i read about this an some players says yes and some no ! I rlly want to know ! Is this possible ? I want to use this for FPS bcause i have some drop frames sometimes and sometime the games frezzes like 2 seconds.... I want to know if this is bannable
Nope, as others have pointed out it isn't a rule they could enforce, even if they wanted. I would advise against it, as you will always know (yourself) that you are giving yourself an edge that shouldn't be there. It will make every single victory you achieve hollow and unearned.
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For those of you defending this practice, let me lay it our for you:
- Attempting to Kobe off the hook is not a plan; it is what you do when the normal plan fails.
- You attempt it when nobody else is coming to save you, or no one can come to save you.
- If you can clearly see people are making the attempt, you milk that time as long as possible.
That's it. If some of you missed the memo or think it is just FUN to try and Kobe off the Hook despite someone clearly coming to get you, please reconsider your rude, selfish action. All you are doing is taking a needless risk and inconveniencing all the other Survivors, particularly those who just invested time (better spent elsewhere) on trying to get you.
Offerings which increase luck and Perks which increase luck and/or attempts to get free are great. Please communicate these pre-game (if you can) and if you decide to attempt this please do so immediately, i.e. before you see other people going out of their way to come get you. That way at least, they can then see you manage it (and not need to waste time) or see you fail and then milk your struggle bus time appropriately before dedicating time (if any) to coming to get you.
Survivors are a 4v1 team, and every choice (good or bad) made by an individual Survivors affects everyone else.
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When I'm playing Killer I see it all the time. It boggles my mind because I don't fight anything but Red/Purple Ranks these days. I'm torn between thinking they are just trying to suicide on the first hook or are monumentally stupid. I feel really bad for the other Survivors that work hard to get there and save them only to watch them try to Kobe and get themselves to struggle bus for no good reason. Basically they are giving me a free Mori (with the benefit of a it having another Hook).
Perhaps it is the new Slippery Meat tempting them to this lunacy. I had a Strode I was playing against in Lerys who loaded up with the Offering for more Luck, Up the Ante, Slippery Meat, etc. Clearly they were intending to get themselves off the hook and had faith in that. Me, I think that is a thing of last resort. I just kind of stood there and watched with mild interest as I had nothing better to do (all Generators were up and the gates open). It didn't work. It struck me that had this person been hooked early in the game (rather than late) they would have done the same silly move. Long story short, I have had a LOT of games of late where I only need (2) Hooks to kill most of the Survivors.
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I don't really have a problem with the Mori as they stand now, but in fairness I decided to play Devil's Advocate and made the following suggestion on how I would tweak them (you will note I don't say Nerf).
Ebony Memento Mori:
4 Hooks = Unlocks 1 Mori
5 Hooks = Unlocks 2 Mori
6 Hooks = Unlocks 3 Mori
7 Hooks = Unlocks 4 Mori
*In this case, no Mori can be attempted until at least (4) Hooks have taken place. They will work on anyone, whether they have been previously hooked or not. This design ensures there is no instant reduction from 4v1 to 3v1 without some effort, and it strongly encourages other Survivors to work as a Team to prevent hooks with shoulder rescues (blind, pallets, protection hits, sabotage, etc.) because staving off hooks protects them as well. *It would also require at least three more Hooks totals than are required right now.
I wouldn't change either the Green or Yellow Mori at all as they are fine.
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I only use a Mori when the Daily calls for it. I had to do one the other day, so I dropped a Green. I don't have anything against the Mori, just find they counterproductive to my BP and Emblems overall. I've only run into like 2-3 Mori this entire month, so I think you are just having a really bad day.
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@My_Aespa said:
^Title, or what perk do you think is the best overall? I am trying to come up with a great Nancy build here
Spine Chill. Adrenaline is great when it actually matters in the game, but it doesn't always come up. It is an End Game Perk. Thus, you must reach the end of the game, and be injured to really get any benefit from it. The extra speed is nice, but again, if you rolled the Killer, you probably don't need it. Spine Chill gives you a return in every single game you play, plain and simple.
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@Tubby_Squirrel said:
So many people putting words in OP's mouth. They never said the killer should go easy on them. I'm not sure if they changed their post and you're reacting to what was there before... or if you just miss-clicked... but you're responding to points they didn't even make. C'mon folks lets stay on topic and not hurl insults in response to pints that were never made.
I'm not putting words in the OPs mouth. I merely pointed out that the focus of the thread, i.e. the complaint seems misplaced. It doesn't belong on the Killer; it belongs on the person who created the imbalance. I just played a game at Lerys where I did the Spooky Myers build. Against me where THREE Rank-1 Survivors and one Rank-4. I thought it was a pretty good game, hard fought.
What did I get post game, a bunch of grief asking me why I was working so hard and sweating. I got a lecture on how that Build is supposed to be fun. I don't know about them (nor care) but I had fun. The word "sweaty" is just the new buzzword now that calling people toxic isn't en vogue. It is the same old song and dance, an attempt to blame one's personal losses on someone else. It is kind of cowardly.
I think a situation where the game becomes a 3v1 too early by no fault of the other Survivors is a TERRIBLE thing. I also find it boring as a Killer. I spend a lot of time pretending to be stupid and letting them get Generators. The win, which I know will come, doesn't feel earned. It is a waste of my time. I sure as hell don't want people piling on and blaming me for their bad experience. I want the blame where it belongs, i.e. loser Players who DC at the drop of a hat.
I was in a game at Midwich earlier today where I literally had them all down in about 2.5 minutes because the first hooks chose to Suicide on the hook and screw over the other Survivors. I felt bad but what can I do? If I threw or slow-pitched EVERY SINGLE GAME where someone disconnects or suicides on the hook early these days, I'd have very few games I could enjoy. I'm not running a charity here. What is particularly troubling to me is how many of these people who DC or suicide are Red/Purple Rank. I'm asking myself how the hell they got there?
Clearly the Rank system needs a look at too.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1782083#Comment_1782083
People don't heal in this meta was his point.
That's a waste of time that cold be spent doing gens.
Well, I can't speak for the games he (or you) play but I still find plenty of people heal up. Nine times out of ten than is where I catch them for the second hook. I think attempting to say what the Meta is right now is all anecdotal and assumption.
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@sekkima said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1782083#Comment_1782083
hahaha with what? Spirit? Freddy? with mori?
I want to think you're in the maroon range; why else your arguments don't hold up.
Myers and Trapper. Those are the Killers I play currently. I am a Red Rank Killer again despite trying to learn Trapper the hard way.
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@sekkima said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1781653#Comment_1781653
- Person unhooked is damaged and will most likely run off to hide from me and heal.
it's 2020 friend, 2016 was a long time ago.
I'm I'm not playing in 2016; just finished matches a few minutes ago, won against Red Rank Survivors. I didn't find the need to Tunnel in those particular matches. Your argument simply does not hold up.
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@DeliciousFood said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1781796#Comment_1781796
No, but a silver lining for being screwed over would make this video game, something that should try to be fun even if frustrating, a bit more pleasant. Quitter bonus could be a little more generous to both sides.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1781824#Comment_1781824
Killers can play with any perks, I never really factor that in. It's more so just the playstyle. Making sure someone goes to second stage before committing to a chase in a 3 v 1 for instance is just ridiculous.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1781832#Comment_1781832
DC's are already punished accordingly, but they don't change the ######### experience that is 3 v 1 with 5 Generators up. I mentioned a potential silver lining above, to mitigate the damage for both sides as I do not thing the current quitter bonus really does much of anything.
Again, that isn't the Killer's fault or issue. The angst, shame, and grief should be directed SOLEY at the person who created the imbalance. It doesn't matter if the DCer gets a Ban. That doesn't mean you then blame the Killer. You should ALSO be directing your bile at the DCer so they get it from all involved. My point is it is not productive to start into these "us versus them" Threads blaming JUST ANOTHER PLAYER who got screwed over by the DCer. They also had to wait for the game to start. They also have Emblems and BP to earn. They also have Dailies and Rifts to work. My suggestion is not to blame them for playing the game. Some of them (me included) will slow things down and throw you a bone, but there shouldn't be the expectation of it. Nor should there be any grief directed at them if they don't.
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@Unseen_Force said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/209347/killers-that-sweat-vs-obvious-solo-queue-teams
So because one of your teammates DC's early, you focus your complaints on the killer?
Your issue is your teammates that DC, not the killer in this situation
Exactly. Instead of running off and creating a Thread about obnoxious DCer Survivors who ruin the game by leaving everyone else holding the bag, we once again see it somehow being the Killer's fault.
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@valvarez4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1781491#Comment_1781491
So many selfish people playing killer
How so? The Killer plays a role with specific, enumerated objectives. The same is true of the Survivors. All anyone can ask is the following:
- Do not cheat, either with hacks or lag spikes.
- Do not disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
That is all it takes to be a good sport. Selfish or Unselfish doesn't come into this equation at all. The expectation is that all Players involved understand the game and are here to play hard. Your fun is not my responsibility, nor is my fun your responsibility. We all get out of games exactly what we put into them. The fun is in the conflict, the playing of the game. We are talking about the journey rather than the destination. People who fixate on outcomes and believe the other Players owe them some sort of unspoken, unofficial leeway in games are the ones being selfish. They are adding an unrealistic and completely subjective standard to the situation.
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It is is all anecdotal of course, but I do see a slightly larger number of Claudette types who seem more than willing (happy even) to let their peers die. I wouldn't say it is a huge number, but it is a slightly higher percentage than I've see in the other Survivors. I've also run into more Bill Overbecks who are actively working with the Killer than I have other Survivors.. I don't know about Felix yet, at least not enough to say I've noticed a trend.
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@sekkima said:
Well I give you a better explanation.
Are you a killer and do you want to win?
Tunnel is required in the current state of the game.
Are you a survivor?
Sorry, you already have like 4 or 5 perks of second chances, put them all on if you can't handle 30 seconds of chase.
I am a Killer and NO it isn't. :) I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Tunneling. It is a valid tactic and sometimes it is the right call. It is NOT the Meta right now, nor it is required to win. Who told you this nonsense? Are you just taking part in the Forum echo chamber? Almost every single match I play is against Red/Purple Rank Survivors and I rarely Tunnel, because only rarely is it to my benefit to do so. Look at it this way:
- Person unhooked is damaged and will most likely run off to hide from me and heal.
- That takes them out of the Generator repair cycle for a bit, and sometimes someone else too (who heals them if they can't self heal).
- I generally know the direction of the person I could Tunnel went (and whomever unhooked them). They are accounted for.
- What I don't know are where the other two people are, and thus I must assume they are banging out Generators.
- Generator Pressure is what wins games. This is because the longer the match goes, the more it tilts to the Killer.
- Lastly, if I downed and hooked that person once, I know I can do it again.
Sometimes I might chase the same person to force them to waste their DS if it is early in the game, but after that, I move on to return to Generator Pressure. That problem is removed. Do you follow? Using Tunneling as your main tactic runs the risk of getting "Tunnel Vision," i.e. becoming too committed to a chase you should have given up. It also makes you PREDICTABLE as a Killer and why would I want my Survivors to know exactly what I'm going to do after every Hook? If they recognize you as a serial Tunneler, you are almost as valuable to them as a Camper. That person you are chasing is going to lead you to the most remote, and unimportant, part of the map so they can to waste your time. The rest of that Survivor's pals are going to make bank on Generator time. I assure you this is real. I do it myself whenever I'm the one the Killer has decided to delete. I just do my best and Loop like crazy and aim for the wastelands of the map.
Everyone likes to talk about the "state of the Meta" like it is something written in stone, a given. It isn't.
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Ghostface is the most annoying Killer, for me at least. His power is too inconsistent. Sometimes I can be staring right into his eyes and NOT knock him out of it. Other times he is barely in the periphery of my vision and he gets knocked out. To be blunt, he is too random and thus what is supposed to be effective counter play is a roll of the dice. It means all games against him will be LONG and drawn out as I'm going to move the second Spine Chill flashes and sneak on away. I find games against Ghostface last a long time because I'm not the only one using this tactic. Don't get me wrong, I don't lose to Ghostface that often, I just don't enjoy playing against him.
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@Ribbles said:
Tunnelling killers should get a massive penalty the same way surivvors get penalized for unsafe hooks. This way these idiots will regress to purple and green ranks and I won't have to go against them anymore. At this point I just DC if I get tunnelled even after I DS them. It is incredibly unfun and frustrating and makes me not want to play the game anymore. So far I am up to a 30 min ban, probably will be 1 hour after the next one. Maybe if i get banned enough I can finally stop playing this game for good.
You are comparing apples and oranges. The Killer's JOB is to sacrifice you, and tunneling is a valid tactic (albeit niche) for doing so. Unsafe Hook rescues are just a bad call on the part of your fellow Survivors. The disconnects you do are an offense and draw a ban (as you clearly just explained yourself). I am not being snide when I suggest you find another game. Clearly the rules of this one do not appeal to you. Let me reiterate a few basic facts:
Camping, Tunneling, Slugging, and the Mori are all valid tactics the Killer can (and sometimes will) employ. They have ALL been cleared by the DEV many times over. This is just the game. I would also point out that your perception of things will often be wrong. Most Killers do not tunnel with intent. They simply take the next target of opportunity that is closest. Very rarely does a Killer CHOOSE to tunnel someone, and when they do, they generally have a pretty good reason.
My suggestion is (if you haven't already) is to play Killer for a while. Everyone should play both roles in my opinion, to get a better perspective and understand the context of how things work.
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I'm kind of in the same boat. I stuck with Myers until I got him to Rank-1, and now I'm trying to learn new Killers. :) The problem is I constantly pull Red/Purple Rank survivors. It is hard ground to till. But, on the bright side, most Killers employ the same basics. I'm not great with the new Killers, but I am improving however slowly.
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@Xyvielia said:
Giving shout outs like a Christmas List to Santa🥳
These Lovelys make the forums a bit more Merry❣️
Thankful for you all 🥰
Thats better😌
Thank you for including me! I appreciate it, and feel honored to be in such good company. Your list pretty much mirrors my own, so I'll probably steal it and add a few names and post when I am off work.
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I think many Survivors worry too much about whether they are being tunneled or not. Nine times out of ten the Killer is just taking the next person they see that looks easiest to reach. If you are unhooked and closer than the person who saved you, why would you think the Killer would ignore you? If the Killer stumbles upon you somewhere else on the map (this happens all the time to me) why would I ignore you? I'm not picky. I neither try to tunnel, nor go out of my way to avoid it. *If and when I tunnel there is a match specific reason for it, and thus very rare. I expect most Killers are the same as me. We take the next target of opportunity. It isn't personal; it isn't by intent.
I barely noticed when Bloodlust was gone for the weekend, and I didn't notice squat when it came back. It certainly doesn't factor into whether or not I chase you any longer. The only reason I'm chasing people longer than (20) seconds is because I have a Rift or a Daily that says I need a massive amount of chase time to complete it, or I have the luxury of chasing you do for match related reasons (you are the last one, everyone else is slugged, or half of you are gone and there are still 3+ Generators to be done.
Most Survivors suffer from TUNNEL vision. They think if they get hit again next, they were tunneled by some malign intent. Nope, they were just the weakest link who happened to pop up on the Killer's radar. The role of the Killer doesn't have a lot of time to work out who to go after and who not to go after for silly reasons such as, "hrm... that Survivor will be mad because I haven't hooked anyone else yet."
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@VanitasRyuzaki said:
Has anyone ever had a fellow survivor literally body block an exit after unhooking them?
I had a bad match where a survivor body blocked the exit and gave the legion the opportunity to down me. I took protection hits for this person and pulls that stunt. And all because I tried to make sure it was safe enough to unhook him and the other survivor after they both got downed and hooked in the basement on the Haddonfield map.
Then he goes and throws insults about intelligence, eyes and hearing. Seriously, if you've played this game long enough, people know its a gamble to unhook a teammate with a killer thats in close proximity. I try to avoid doing that especially when the killers proxy camp.
This honestly isn't the first time I got double crossed by a teammate.
It happens, sadly, and far too often. There are some weirdo Survivors that are working against the others from the START of the game. I'd say these defective people are in the minority, but they exist as do the sad sacks like you describe.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1780863#Comment_1780863
Streamers don't want to show their losing games or games not pushing their agenda. If they are one of those toxic Killer mains, they will not show any survivor games where they actually die. It's only the bad or unlucky Killers they showcase that they go against. Same for the opposite side. And even split players only want to show themselves winning.
Meanwhile I have gotten multiple low rank Survivor matches tonight working on the Tome that basically sabotaged the entire match. One of them even waited to kill themselves till I got to them to save them. She was spiteful I didn't let her kill herself at the start of the match. Most of these matches haven been complete slaughters cause bad Survivors sink the ship so fast.
Yeah, they tend to only show themselves in the best light (most of them anyway... there are exceptions). I've considered Streaming at some point, but I'd show every match, win, lose, or draw. Tips from a Mediocre DbD player!
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1778251#Comment_1778251
and I don't see that as a big problem.
As killer, if a survivor gets stronger as the ratio of survivors to killer lessens, I'm okay with that. As survivor, I'm cool with survivors having a reason not to hook bomb and suicide for a chance of maybe having the killer mess up along the way.
It's neat game design that allows DbD to be more diverse in survivor tactics and approaches.
This was a short comment, but I'll get back to you.
As a Killer I don't have a problem with it either. You are missing my point. It is a Perk designed in such a way to encourage you to Sandbag. I've seen it in combination with a lot of Stealth Perks and the Perk to highlight the hatch. The whole point is to get them killed and exit.
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I have to say that I'm pretty dissatisfied with the current state of matchmaking. Overall, I like the game. I think the DEV do a good job. This is their one great failing, at least in my opinion. This is a PvP game which only works if the participants are matched with people of more or less equal skill. That makes a WORKING matchmaking system the single most important mechanic in the game. It should take precedence over literally everything else. That doesn't appear to be the case. I make allowances for the fact that we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. That being said, I can't help but feel a twinge of annoyance when I see things like the weekend to test out whether or not Bloodlust should be removed from the game. That doesn't even seem like something that needs priority over the Fonts used for the after game stats. My personal request would be that everything, and I mean EVERYTHING should take a backseat to fixing your matchmaking. A PvP game lives and dies by the quality of its matchmaking.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1778237#Comment_1778237
If we are talking about "desing and intent", then how is that any different from a decent killer dodging until they get a full console lobby or a bunch of baby-looking survivors?
Look I agree that its dumb when survivors go against lower rankers with a single minded intention of making the killer dc, but there are many higher level players out there who derank because of the amount of sweat lords at red ranks. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that but there are more reasons as to why survivors smurf than to simply just "bully the killer".
Also I'm pretty sure almost anyone would rather vs a bunch of agressive survivors who may be a bit annoying and tedious as opposed ot a belndette swf with bnp's and who pop all the gens before you even find one.
I'm glad we agree that Bully Squads, at least, are inappropriate. But while I see where you are coming from about other Players purposely lowering their Rank without ill-intent, it still results in the SAME thing. It puts relative newbies, who should be fighting against other Players equal to their Skill, up against those whom they are not yet prepared to deal with. Their less-malign motivation doesn't mean squat to the relative beginners they proceed to curb-stomp. Do you follow? Those people being taken advantage of are now subject to what YOU would call a Sweat-Lord, because they won't be able to deal with it.
This is a PvP game, where the intent is to match relatively equal Players against one another for the fairest contest possible. Gaming the system to fight people who you know you are better than is no different from me insisting on playing Dodgeball with a bunch of 3rd Graders. It is no fun for them, and cowardly on my part. The proper response to not being able to handle the intensity of playing this game at your own level is to TAKE A BREAK, not go beat up on 3rd Graders.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775763#Comment_1775763
but that's not in the spirit of sole survivor. Have you watched this?:
[I'll embed it when I find it XD; it's too good!]
Edit: I may not be able to find it... :,( It's a clip of the 1978 movie with Sole Survivor on Laurie equipped.
The point is the Perk, as it is built now, is either not taken or taken by Survivors whose entire purpose is to screw over the rest of their own team. It is a problematic design for a game wherein the Survivors have to work together to win. The purpose of the Player (is also not in the spirit of the films) when they are actively benefitting form the death of their peers. It creates a situation wherein someone actively wants to sandbag the others so they can get the Hatch.
Consider the combination of OoO and Sole Survivor. The Player can use their aura (which is visible to the Killer) to lead him/her directly to the other Survivors every time. They are a literal beacon if they have ill-intent. Then as each person dies, they get more powerful until the end where they can always see the Killer but he/she cannot see them. I've seen it done.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1771459#Comment_1771459
So you're saying ppl should play the game to hold m1? The funnest part about this game for both sides is teh interactions between killer and surivor. This is why so many survivors like the chase aspect of the game and being near a killer. It's no fun for both sides holding m1 and genrushing.
Look as annoyign as smurfing is for killers, often it's the one game where they don't 4k especially at low ranks, so often i'll say to them just take it and suck it up, sure it's annoying but if you're smart and strategic it'll be a huge learning point for getting better at the game. You don't get better by destroying bad teams, you get better by going against good teams. Matchmaking also plays a huge part in this as many red rank teams get matched with lower ranks quite frequently, so it's not their fault if the killer genuinely cannot catch them.
With all due respect, no. This is a lot of hot air aimed at defending a practice which is cowardly. Smurfing and Bully Squads exist because some Players simply lack the spine to play in their own Ranks. They want to beat up on people they know they can curb-stomp. This isn't about making newer Players better. That isn't the purpose of a Bully Squad. They are trying to make the Killer DC. They are impotent, worthless garbage who couldn't take the heat in the Ranks (where they belong) so they are gaming the system so they can beat up on people still (by comparison) learning the game. Sometimes it is done just to produce comical content for Streamers. That is the long and the short of it.
You are effectively defending having 300lbs. Professional Football Players show up to play as Ringers in High School games at full speed. Don't try to spin this as something fun or noble. And lets not make a mistake here, we aren't talking about "accidental" matchmaking. We are talking about design and intent.
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@Heartbound said:
Ruin/Undying is meta right now and Discordance is a solid perk. I'm pretty sure they were just trying to get a rise out of you and...it worked.
Decisive survivor victory.
Hey to make you feel better I play an absolutely terrible huntress and I've been imprisoned in red ranks for a long time. I just don't ever play her and I dusted her off yesterday just for filler while I was rushing through the archives.
The survivors were nice but I think my accuracy that round hovered around 25%. I was so embarrassed.
The rise wasn't the insult itself. I'm not self-conscious about my builds. I have always said I will camp, tunnel, slug, and Mori if a match requires it. I will use whatever Builds are legal. It just bugs me that nobody can take any personal responsibility. They played BADLY. They should own it. How the hell else will they get better? I just got my butt kicked by a great Team on one of the Japanese maps. No two ways about it; I played poorly and they played great. It is as easy as that.
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1776254#Comment_1776254
Jund the Scott says there are 0 counter plays to spireh. He even has an open challenge for a survivor to prove him wrong
Well, I don't play Survivor on his level, but I can tell you I'd rather fight a Spirit than a Pig or a Ghostface. I do very well against the Spirit, at least so far in my own weight class. The lowest I've gotten as a Survivor is Rank-6 so far. I can't address whether or not it is possible to counter a Red Rank Spirit because I haven't fought one yet.
That being said, I fight Spirits with Spine Chill. The second I see it light up when I know I'm against Spirit I start walking a short bit and then run. I do this so when she arrives there is no clear indication of where I went. So far, it has worked just fine for me.
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@tj0108 said:
Would genuinely like to know, currently shes absolutely disgusting.
She has counter play. The best one is the Perk: Spine Chill. She homes in on landmarks (normally) and the second you see Spine Chill light up you start moving against a Spirit. Chances are she will arrive where you WERE and be empty-handed. The most effective Spirits I've seen load up on "info" Perks. I fought one using Barbecue & Chili, Nurses Calling, Discordance, and Tinkerer. This allowed her to home in on people in all sorts of areas you wouldn't normally think she could. She didn't need landmarks to find you. Against that build you have to use those Lockers when you see someone about to be hooked. You take your chances healing so you try to time it right, and you keep on the move and wear down her Generators through teamwork and attrition.
Fortunately, super-info Spirit has been rare so far. I probably shouldn't have talked about her at all on the Forum. :) The Spirit is very easy to mind game. Like the Nurse, she WANTS to use that power, even when simply chasing you down old school would be a better choice. If you watch her you can pick up on her hunting pattern. People who run routes on Generators via teleport/haunt/etc. almost always fall into a pattern so they can maximize the speed of it. The Spirit is particularly vulnerable to this as she has to cross the distance flying around. The Spirit finds what appears to be the fastest route and tends to repeat it.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1776121#Comment_1776121
I'm saying that I'm talking about which is better between Tombstone Piece and Ivory Mori.
Hrm. It depends on what you are taking it for. If you want to Mori EVERYONE, the Ebony Memento Mori is still the most reliable play. The Yellow & Green Mori are just useful for doing a Daily or Rifts. The Tombstone is NOT the best tool to try and Mori everyone. The amount of Stalk it takes (and time) make it far more likely you will give up a win trying for the Mori. This is what it is good for:
- It is excellent for killing Tea-Baggers either during the match or at the exit gates.
- It is excellent for dropping a 4v1 Red Rank SWF (w/5th Perk: Comms) down to a 3v1 to level the playing field.
- It is excellent for a surprise disruption, like taking out someone carrying a Key without warning.
- It is awesome for a fun surprise against Bully Squads.
- It is useful for intimidation, say charging up early, going into a group and just killing someone in front of them.
*I assure you that once someone sees that Mori happen on the run early, it puts the fear of the Boogeyman into them and they are way too cautious and attrition falls to you. You are correct in pointing out that Survivors do have more ways to counter a Tombstone Piece than they do a traditional Mori. They can try to avoid giving up much Stalk. They can work to make sure you don't get that close. The Mori aspect requires you to be point blank rather than just a normal attack. So safe looping works pretty well. However, you never know if the Tombstone Piece is in play until you do. You always know (or have a good idea) that a Mori is in play.
So when you are talking about which is better, I'd have to ask you what do you want to use them for? Killing Survivors by one's own hand is cool and all, but it isn't good for Emblem Advancement or BP. Unless you have a cool Rift or Daily, the act sets you back more than helps. Tactically, I'd say the Tombstone Piece is better because it brings options and surprise to change the course of a hard game against difficult opponents. The traditional Mori is niche.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1776077#Comment_1776077
Sure, but this discussion isn't really about whether basics win the game (since it is naturally agreeable that good fundamentals are important to doing well). We're talking about playing vs. a Mori (Ivory mori specifically) vs. playing against a Tombstone add-on (specifically Tombstone piece).
And playing against the Mori (or the Tombstone Piece) requires basic fundamentals and no deviation from them. There is no magic bullet against the Mori. It is countered by simple, good play. That's it.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775830#Comment_1775830
Yeah, I'm very aware of the knife pointing thing. I'm saying that I THINK (I will admit that I'm not 100% on this) he also has a tell in Tier 3 if he also has Tombstone Piece/Judith's Tombstone.
Killers will always take bait, even when they know better. A good bait, is a good bait.
Ehhhh, I don't really see it that way. If everyone is hawking around the Killer shack because someone is in a basement hook, and I see someone trying to conspicuously lead me away, I'm going to take a few steps away and then double back. What you're describing is just typical Survivor gameplay that can and should be played around in general. Even the crouch thing, if I notice that pressing the hook button somehow did nothing, the first thing I will do is look down to see if someone is trying to be cute.
Once a person has been on the hook, the other Survivors should make SAFE rescues, and that person should stay at the periphery and work Generators as far from the Killer as possible.
Again, this is kinda just general tips to play the game decently (again, barring Borrowed Time). The thing that the Ivory Mori does is shortcut by a lot the amount of work that the Killer needs to put in to knock someone out and gain momentum. You say "why not get the Killer to go after you and get them off the Survivor who has already been hooked?" I say "why bother changing targets when the one I am going after is going to net me an incredible amount of momentum because they are primed to be Mori'd?" Unless the one you are initially chasing is super good at being chased to the point where it becomes a liability to chase them too much (which ALSO is lessened in penalty if you have the Mori to make that whole chase effectively count for two chases AND two walks to hooks), you don't really have good reason to switch courses beyond "I don't want to tunnel people too hard because I'm just playing for funsies".
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775836#Comment_1775836
Sorry, when I said "different from how you play normally," I was referring to how it's different from how one should ideally play against a Killer, not how that difference from your own personal play patterns. I'm asking how playing super safe against a Mori player is any different from playing super safe against a non-Mori player. As a follow-up, how is that any different from playing super safe against Myers?
I wish I could tell you if that "tell" about the open hand is true. I know I'm never looking at Myers long enough to know. But as to the advice I'm giving being basic... yeah... BASICS win games.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775811#Comment_1775811
Here's the problem: If the Killer has a mori, what incentive do they have to take any sort of bait? All they need to do is take out a single person with the Ivory mori, and the momentum shifts in their favor considerably. The Killer has no problem with taking the one-for-one trade because that's still going to slow things down for the other side, and you can only willingly do that so many times before you run out of people who haven't been hooked yet and have to face the inevitability of someone being knocked out early.
Also, I'm not exactly sure I can verify this, but I have heard that Myers has a tell with regards to whether he has one of the tombstone add-ons or not. I think if his free hand is open-handed while he is in Tier 3, he has an insta-kill primed. Also, if Myers is taking a noticeably long time to reach tier 3, you know that he has either a Tombstone add-on or Fragrant Tuft, both of which you wanna REALLY go out of your way to avoid letting him reach too quickly.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775815#Comment_1775815
How is that any different from just how you play normally? What makes that a better strategy against a mori specifically? The Killer doesn't need to play any differently until they get their first hook.
Myers has a tell when he is in Tier-3. His knife is changed to a high position like he is going to stab downward. They did this specifically to remind people that THIS Myers will Insta-Down you at a minimum. I think it was a good change.
Killers will always take bait, even when they know better. A good bait, is a good bait. But remember, Survivors are part of a 4-Person team. Nothing prevents Survivors from making shoulder rescues with flashlights, pallets, or even sabotaging hooks. They can get in the way and take protection hits to allow the downed person to struggle out and avoid that first hook. I've even had clever, crouching Survivors get in close with me where I couldn't see them to try and trick me into thinking I was getting the "can't hook bug" because they were blocking me and I didn't know they were there.
Once a person has been on the hook, the other Survivors should make SAFE rescues, and that person should stay at the periphery and work Generators as far from the Killer as possible. It is commonsense stuff. And if you see the Killer chasing someone you know has been hooked (and you haven't) why not get yourself into the chase and get the Killer to peel off? I've done this a LOT. When I do get to play with my friends, I'm the better looper of our group. That is kind of sad because I'm garbage. Be that as it may, I've run interference and gotten the Killer to go after me instead. I might get away, or I might get MY first hook, but the point is I prevented the Mori and my teammates are still in numbers to keep working those Generators. Hell, they might even get to milk my Hook time if we have a camper.
The very existence of Bully Squads (as much as I dislike them) proves that you can engage a Killer with coordination even on the offensive.
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@ChainsawsChickenNBBQ said:
That's why i keep my killer and survivor rank around 14-15, any higher and I HAVE to play like a scumbag to keep in the game
I don't know about that. I don't go out of my way to tunnel, nor do I go out of my way to avoid it and I regularly play against Red Rank Survivors. For the record, I will Camp, Tunnel, Slug, and use the Mori if a particular match calls for it. I don't consider these valid, tactics "scummy" but for the most part I consider them niche. I've never found just trying to tunnel one person after another off the hook to be particularly effective at advancement or winning overall. So, I don't do it because it doesn't work consistently enough, not because there is any moral reason. Does that make sense?
By in large I think the most important thing about fighting Red Ranks is playing against type, doing things which screw with their information advantage, and simply never taking your foot off their throat. There is just a much narrower margin for error. You want them running from you all the time. That means you have to find them and then not lose them. You have to herd your chase, so that you can drive more off the Generators as you go. And I, at least, am always thinking about how to get a good 3-Gen while herding too. I'm not sure if you would call that scummy or not.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775772#Comment_1775772
I mean, how safe can you play against a Mori offering, really? There's really nothing you can do about it. Against a stalking offering, you can still outplay Myers the way you normally would, only it would be more effective because of the increased stalk requirement. Sure, you can offset that with the increased stalk speed add-ons, but I don't think against competent players, that would end up being more effective in terms of momentum than booting out a single survivor with an Ivory mori.
Well, I think MadLordJack is talking about playing it safe as a team (but I could be wrong). Consider this, if you are part of a well-oiled machine, you might be willing to take your time on the Hook just to make the safe rescue, and/or lure the Killer away from your team while they work some Generators. If you have faith in your teammates, you are willing to trade Hooks or get on one. If there is a Mori in play, i.e. a Secret Offering, you don't even want a single hook if you can avoid it. You aren't going to be thrilled to be the looping bait. You won't commit to Generators and will move off the second Spine Chill lights up. You can play safe against a Mori, which amounts to SERIOUS caution.
With Myers, you have no way of knowing. I kind of think that is part of the fun. You never know WHICH Myers has come to the party. Is it Spooky Myers who can see you through walls, but is slow? Is it Maniac Myers who can tier up to Insta-Down you and/or just delete you right then and there without so much as a single Hook?
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Personally, I think they designed Sole Survivor BACKWARDS. I think it should start the Survivor with the maximum range at which their Aura cannot be detected, and have that range decrease until the ability vanishes when they are the last Survivor standing. This would encourage said Player to be invested in using their stealth advantage to keep to keep the other Survivor's alive, rather than only making bank off their deaths.
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My favorite thing about the Tombstone Piece is the fact that you don't have to down a Survivor to use it. Once it is keyed up, i.e. you are in Tier-3 you can grab them while they are still standing and running and gut them like fish. Why do I like this so much? It is great for Tea-Baggers at exits. This is the other reason I often add it, and pretty much the only time I actually find myself using it these days, is if I lose the match and there are a bunch of yahoos hanging at the exit Tea-Bagging me knowing that when I hit them they will fall outside of my range to pick them up and the crawl away. I can't tell you how priceless it is to run up and instead of getting hit the animation starts and they get the Mori for being bad sports.
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@crazygiles52 said:
So I came across a Myers this evening who used NoED and a tombstone piece and says that a tombstone piece is not a mori. He says that a tombstone piece is NOT a mori but an add on. A tombstone piece is an add on and the mori is an offering, but their performance is the same. So is a tombstone piece a mori or not?
It is and it isn't. Just like PH, Myers can kill without the permission of the Entity. He has to bring his Add-On(s) to do it, either the Tombstone Piece or Judith's Tombstone. I take it all the time, to be honest, but rarely use it. I bring it along as insurance against the odd Bully Squad or Red Rank Survivor Squad all using the 5th Perk (Comms). I like the option of reducing their information advantage to a 3v1 quickly if I find I can't overcome the advantage. So for the most part, it is something I add but rarely use, sort of a wasted add-on slot.
The Tombstone Piece only works in Tier-3 and makes getting to Tier-3 the first time take additional time/evil. It cannot be combined with the Fragrant Tuft of Hair; well you can, but using the Tombstone Piece will instantly drop you out of Tier-3 when you use it. This means you would have to get back up to Tier-3 all over again, and you better hope there is enough evil left to do it. :)
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I play Myers because:
- He was listed as difficult and I wanted to learn on a hard Killer rather than an easy one.
- He is the spiritual Godfather of the entire genre that spawned this game.
- He is Michael "Freaking" Myers.
For the record, I disagree with the notion that he is Low Tier. I'd put him in the middle at worst.
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I was playing on Midwich going for an unhook, still didn't know who the Killer was (as I play Solo Que usually) and I looked down the LONG hallway past the lockers and debris. It took me a moment to focus and saw that far away there was a Deathslinger standing in that broken alcove created by bent lockers. He was using the Hook as a honeypot, camping it from the maximum range of his harpoon. I literally snorted soda out my nose and had the mother of all jump scares right before he took the shot (and me down).
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775584#Comment_1775584
I believe Keys and Moris are among the most problematic balance issues. As does a majority of people who have vocalized any sort of opinion on this issue.
Fair enough; we can agree to disagree. For the record, the Ebony Memento Mori fix I suggested in Feedback was as follows:
4 Hooks = 1 Unlocked Mori
5 Hooks = 2 Unlocked Mori
6 Hooks = 3 Unlocked Mori
7 Hooks = 4 Unlocked Mori
*Said Mori can be used on anyone, whether they have been previously hooked or not. This method ensures that an Ebony Memento Mori requires at least (3) more Hooks than currently (to Mori everyone), and encourages Survivors to take protection hits, try to pick up the killer from a chase going badly, do flashlight stuns (or any kind of stun) to prevent hooks before they happen, and work more as a team since their own overall survival is tied to there being fewer hooks. It also takes away some of the impetus to Tunnel as immediately going after the same person doesn't give an instant Mori at the start of the game. The Hex: Devour Hope requires one more Hook, but it also provides other benefits as well as being a Hex that people can destroy so this runs in line with being balanced against that.
*I don't think the Yellow or the Green Mori need any changes to be honest.
As for the Keys, the only change I would do is have it so only one person can get out the hatch per Key, and leave everything else the same.
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@MissTea91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775603#Comment_1775603
I understand that too. It does just feel like bullying. I get it that when I mess up, they're gonna come for me, but when I don't understand how things escalate, because I'm not a brilliant player, then it gets pretty frustrating. I was playing with a SWF and just didn't bother to struggle, because I couldn't be bothered to be chased almost straight off hook again. It really does suck the enjoyment from a game.
I'm still relatively new myself. To put this in context, there are Players (and Posters) here that have been around since 2016. I've been around perhaps a little over three months. I ran into the same things you are now, but I can promise you things get better. The game has a steep learning curve. But once you get a few things down (and you will) many of the things sucking the fun out of it for you will vanish.
You might decide this game isn't right for you, and that is ok too. I'm just saying not to get tilted or discouraged. Some things are ridiculously hard. Otz has a great video on how not to let this game get to you. I do suggest finding it on Youtube, but in summary he says that the best way not to get tilted in a match is to be working towards long term goals. Don't set any expectations for the match you are in; just play your best and laugh off the adversity. Take pride in the little victories. They will become more and more frequent.
The ridiculous, silly goal I set for myself was to only play Myers as my Killer from zero to hero. I would not play any other Killer until I got him to Rank-1. With that as a long term goal, I took each curb-stomping I experienced in stride and learned what I could from them. I also played a lot of Survivor (although I haven't set a goal like that for my Survivors yet). Playing both sides gave me a lot of perspective and probably helped me get better as a Killer. I am not exaggerating one bit when I say that I felt exactly the same way you do for the first couple of weeks. It shall pass.