Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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People who complain about the Builds of other Players are just looking to scapegoat someone else for their OWN failures. It is kind of pathetic. How people choose their Perks and Add-On(s) is none of my business, nor is how I build mine their business. If I have a problem with a Perk or Add-On, I MIGHT give some feedback on it here in the Forums or in a private email, but I'm never going to grief/shame another Player about making a legitimate choice, using legal options, and employing things they bought with Blood Points they earned. Doing so would make me an obnoxious hypocrite.
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@noctis129 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1800850#Comment_1800850
The only problem here is that, the surviving survivors will tell u that u suck. And if u tell them u let them go, they say they let themselves go, and the insults continue. This is not a isolated incident, it happens all the time. So I stop doing that and just kill all of them. If the survivors survive, it's becuz they did it on their own. And I'll take the insult.
Only time I let survivors go is when I see rank 20 potatoes. I just leave them be. Babies deserve to live to be killed in the future.
But why would I care if they tell me I suck? :) Unless they ask me if I was taking it easy on them, I'm not going to offer that information. I know they only got out because of me. I could care less what they think or know. If they demonstrate bad manners, I just take note of them and if they come up again, I won't be as kind. I play to compete against MYSELF and if I know I won and let them walk, why would I care if they know or not? They are just nameless, faceless voices squawking on the internet.
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@HittingOnHook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1800970#Comment_1800970
If you see in the lobby 4 blendettes with flashlights you could predict they are pesky SWF and equip this offering
No, I think it should be automatic, not an Offering. The game knows when 3+ people joined a Lobby together. The code has a way to identify a SWF. That is the only time it should happen so there is no guesswork. I don't think it should EVER be an offering. It should be tied to the number of people joining a lobby together.
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The only reason I would endorse a 5th Perk would be for the Killer when facing an SWF of 3+ people. This would be done to offset the 5th Perk (Comms) that a SWF employs.
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I think Myers is pretty balanced. There are a few things I would tweak in his Add-On(s). I'm not going to give the full list here, but these are the most telling ones:
Vanity Mirror:
This one could be fixed simply by starting Myers in Tier-2 and providing its limited Wall Hack as is. This would fix it, plain and simple. You start the game as fast as a normal Killer and have a limited Wall Hack, but you can never get to to Tier-3. I would use the item if it did this, instead of always defaulting to the Scratched Mirror.
Tombstone Piece
I would make this one the Ultra Rare Add-On and leave it as is otherwise.
Judith's Tombstone
I change this one to a Very Rare, and have it only do one thing, i.e. eliminate the Red Stain. *It no longer slows you down, etc.
*All of the Mirror Shards and Shards of Glass are pretty much worthless and not used. They would need to be changed so that another key/button allows you to activate them to see Auras for an increased amount of time (at least a few seconds more) and at a good range. I have HUNDREDS of these things and will never use them as they stand.
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I'm a bad person to answer this question because I rate a WIN by how much fun I had in the match. The winning or losing of it doesn't really matter that much as far as "individual" matches go. I look at Dead by Daylight in several different ways. There is the individual match and there are long term goals. Individual matches are about challenge and fun. And sometimes individual matches are about a short term goal involving a Daily or Rift. So in those cases, if the Daily/Rift was the goal, I win if I manage it.
I've had matches where I scored 30K+ and killed all four Survivors and didn't enjoy them at all. Most often, this happens when matchmaking sticks me against inappropriate opponents. On rare occasion, it happens because one Survivor is sandbagging (a pet peeve of mine and they get to bleed out if I realize it). It can also happen when some quitter decides to leave early or even midgame leaving the others holding the bag. These are not going to be fun games for me, and regardless of how good the outcome is for me on paper, it is NOT a win. I don't want gimme games, I want to earn my victories. Gimme games don't count for anything. They are a waste of my time.
I've had matches where I didn't kill a single Survivor; they were that good, the map was hostile, and I still managed to not lose a Pip. I had one of these yesterday where I was up against a Red Rank SWF of seriously good players and got sent to McMillan Estate while using a Spooky Myer's Build. Let's just say things were not weighted in my favor. They all got out but I made them WORK for it, and I still scored just shy of 30K and pulled a Brutal Killer result. I lost the match in that they all got away but it was as serious personal win.
I don't know if I'm making any sense. To me, personally, the game is about the challenge. That is where the fun comes from. The is no shame in losing to a better opponent or drawing the short straw. You still fight your hardest and learn what you can. I feel bad when I don't give my opponents a challenge. I apologize for it if they can hear me in the end chat. Sometimes the Daily/Rift I'm working runs contrary to giving my opponents my best game, which does shortchange them. They aren't getting my A-Game because I have a conflict of interests.
We all want to come out on top, but we all win just by playing the game.
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@noctis129 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1800803#Comment_1800803
So ur toying w the survivors cuz u know u already won. But wants a few more BP so u let them run around.
While I agree w what u do, I think a lot of ppl only care about their own enjoyment. Other ppl's 'fun'? Well... They be alright.
I can't speak for the person you responded to but I can answer this question for myself. Sure, yes. I often stretch out games because it is mutually beneficial. I try to avoid farming because I don't think they learn anything from that nor is it a challenge. I'd rather they NOT know I'm taking it down a few notches to play closer to their level. Am I toying with them? The answer would be subjective, so I'll error on the side that is the least flattering; yes I am. I am letting them get some points, practice, and feel they earned a victory if any of them get out.
There are lots of ways to do this. Sometimes I just let them get Generators I could easily stop. I'm giving them a head start to balance out what is clearly a poor bit of matchmaking. Sometimes I "miss" a lot choosing a basic attack over a lunge. Sometimes I eat pallets I don't have to get hit by and thus they get some ground. The list goes on and on. My point is the game is designed in such a way that snuffing the Survivors fast and efficiently makes you fewer BP and less likely to earn a Pip. It can, in fact, lose you Pips as you get into the more potent Ranks. Why would I want to do that?
I suspect, although I have no way of knowing, that the DEV built it this way on purpose. They assume that over time the competitive types, like me, will figure out we get more bang for our buck by making matches go longer, getting more hooks, allowing more saves to repeat said hooks, and so on. That approach certainly does work on a Min/Max Player like myself. I expect it works on a lot of people. That is why you see more Mori, camping, etc. in the less potent Ranks. Those Killers are trying to keep people on the hook. By contrast, I'm trying to let them get unhooked so I have more opportunities to score, or wanting to get the overly altruistic if a match requires bait.
Playing closer to the level of your opponents is, at least by me, preferred to farming. All sides get more out of it. Sometimes Survivors catch on and will comment on it in the end chat. I never lie about it if confronted with, "were you taking it easy on us?" I will admit the truth, and compliment what they did right and sometimes if they sound receptive offer advice on what they could do better. Due to the Console inability to chat with us (and there seem to be more of them than PC Players) many games don't have any conversation of any type at the end. I often think that would be a blessing if it were universal silence. If you want to call it "toying" with the Survivors, I'll accept that. I prefer to call it maximizing my value from a game, and a win/win situation since every second I didn't gut them like fish is time they have to earn more points, learn more things, and SOMETIMES make me pay for it. I've lost kills (even whole matches) because I let things go too long.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1800801#Comment_1800801
If there was something you liked about the way they played then say it. A flat "gg" after a game that ends in 2 minutes is going to piss people off because that's obviously not a good game. To think otherwise is to be purposefully obtuse.
I agree with this completely. I always try to say more than just the minimum. I like to comment on a particularly good juke or pallet stun. Truth be told I eat a lot of pallets on purpose for that reason. ;) The setup of the game doesn't reward a Killer for ending a game quickly. You get more points the longer it lasts. I like long games and thus I tend to make them last a long time whether I intend to win or I intend to lose. The longer the game goes, the greater the opportunity for me to find something I can comment on at the end of the game.
But all that being said and done, I still think people who don't go to that level of effort and just say GG aren't trying to antagonize anyone. They are simply going through the motions of being polite. They can't control how the salty will take it. I've had games where I was detailed and really complimentary of the other side, and still got a heaping helping of hate speech. Bad sports are bad sports. They are choosing to be antagonized and refusing to hold their tongues like adults because apparently they never learned the basic tenets of good sportsmanship.
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@brokedownpalace said:
I mean you wiped the floor with them and then you said gg. You were antagonizing them so you should expect that to upset people.
I don't know about this. I always say "good game" and/or something like it to be positive whether I wipe the floor with them or not. It is basic good sportsmanship. One can always find at least one or two good things the opponent did during a match even if they were mostly awful. I understand that it hurts to lose, but the right response is:
"If you can't say something nice, it is better to say nothing at all."
I've gotten used to the fact that when I demolish people they rarely say anything even if I'm friendly. I respect their silence and understand they are just being adults and holding their tongues. Good on them. I don't think the OP was trying to antagonize anyone, just exercising the same good sportsmanship we were taught from Kindergarten up, i.e. at the end of the game you shake hands and say "good game".
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@Zaytex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799966#Comment_1799966
I don't really understand this idea.
If you're telling people to play how they want and completely ignore the other side's experience, you're basically breeding a toxic game for both sides, where more and more people will become frustrated and unsatisfied with the game.
Imagine if every game, the Killer brought a red mori, tunnelled, camped, and used Spirit/Nurse, etc. Or if all four survivors brought keys, DS/UB, gen rushed. The game would become miserable, whereas, if we tell BOTH survivors and killers to play with some respect and empathy to the other side, the game would become more fun and enjoyable.
Call it entitlement, but I'd argue its reasonable to want to have a fair and fun experience in any video game. I don't expect people to do it, but we should promote the idea to do it.
No, that isn't what that poster was saying. It is rude to put words in their mouth. The rules of this game can be boiled down to:
- Don't cheat, either by hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game finish it.
- Be humble in victory, and gracious in defeat. (This last one is really not a rule just an expectation of good sportsmanship).
Playing by the RULES is not ignoring the other side's experience. We all know the rules of this game when we come to play. We don't get to add ones we like better. You don't get to grief/shame other people for not abiding by your own extra set of morals and morays. I will give you an honest, hard game. When you beat me, you can take pride in the fact that YOU beat me. I won't be blaming it on anything "toxic" or "scummy" or "sweaty" or any other idiot term de jour. I am not responsible for your fun, nor are you responsible for mine. Our mutual expectations should be (no more and no less) that we are going to give a good effort. We bring our own fun to the game. You should be here for the challenge. If you don't like PvP you should find a different game. There are plenty of them out there.
And yes, I will agree you; I think your attitude is definitely a sense of entitlement. I'll go one further, it is unearned entitlement. We all face the same things when we play this game. Nobody likes it when things go south, and few people enjoy losing. We play for love of the game, not the outcome. We should only be promoting that people do numbers 1-3 above, nothing more and nothing less. What you call "promoting" I call giving people salty grief and attempting to shame them. It isn't a good look, so don't try to dress it up as something noble. It isn't.
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@Felnex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799668#Comment_1799668
No. but there are other games that have mature content (and display violence) that don't rely on humiliation and wounded pride as a primary motivator.
The game doesn't rely on those things, nor does it have any control over them. Wounded pride is decided upon by fiat, the person who has no control over their emotions. The same is true of humiliation.
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This entire thread is kind of silly. Most of the things being mentioned as "scummy" are simply the game. The only way to be scummy, in point of fact, is to cheat, disconnect leaving the other players holding the bag, or engage in vile pre-game or post-game chat. Those are the only real criteria for being slime. Moreover, this entire thread perpetuates the notion that somehow Survivors and Killers are separate parties. They are not. Those are merely roles in the match. We are all just PLAYERS of this game, and most of us play both roles from time to time. This false narrative of "sides" is both a lie and damaging to the greater community overall.
I was in post game chatter once (not too long ago) where I apologized for bringing a weak game. I didn't play as hard as I could have because I was more interested in completing a Rift. The Survivor was polite back and said no worries, but I could apologize for the camping. I said, "Nope. I don't apologize for playing the game, nor for whatever legal/valid tactics I employ." He took it in good humor and we left it at that. In short, don't hate the Playa... hate the game. Dead by Daylight is a PvP game where the two roles have mutually exclusive goals. The fun comes in the challenge, not the outcome. This attempt to try and redefine how other people should play is just one more way of trying to shift the blame for one's own failures onto others. We lie best when we lie to ourselves.
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@carnage4u said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799622#Comment_1799622
I have removed the racist players name to protect the racist homophonic human being because we need to keep those people safe I suppose.
Yeah, I'm right there with you. I'm not sure why we have to protect the identity of creeps either, but those are the rules here.
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@PokemonGOPlayer said:
If you are not running a combination of DS, Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, Adrenaline, Borrowed Time and Unbreakable with maybe one of them changed with something like Iron Will and you are in Red Ranks, you are a liability to your team.
Is that a fact? I am a Red Rank Killer and I always take note of the builds of the Survivors at the end. I find a lot of variety beyond that list in the builds, and often in the groups that beat me. Adrenaline only matters if we get to the endgame, and I work to prevent that. Borrowed Time doesn't matter to me at all because I want people unhooked safely, so I can hook them again for points. I'm far more likely to hit the unhooker. Dead Hard buys you, at best, a few extra seconds. Unbreakable doesn't matter to me because I rarely slug. Sprint Burst isn't a problem because I keep Generator Pressure up and chases all the time so that they rarely have it on tap.
I'm not saying those Perks are bad, nor that combination ineffective. What I'm saying is your comment about people not running it being a liability is just straight up wrong.
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@JPLongstreet said:
Bye bye Peak-a-Boo Myers and all other map-dependant builds
Why do you think any particular Myers build would be affected by the loss of the Mori? Myers would be the least affected. He can bring his own via Add-On(s). I think you guys are crazy if you think they will eliminate the Mori. They may tweak them, but they are part of the genre and the theme of the game. They will always be with us.
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@Emeal said:
In this thread we imagine a day where the three Mori offerings have been disabled, They cannot be used.
How would you feel about this Survivors and Killers?
Do you think it will affect kill rates? Would you have more fun?
What do you think would happen?
I think, as both a Survivor and Killer, it would make the game a bit more dull.
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His coding simply does not work. I can say this objectively from both playing him and playing against him. Whatever rhyme or reason it uses is wildly inconsistent. I've had people staring at me from near point blank range while I stood and stared back and they could not drop me out of my power. I've knocked him out of when he was the periphery of my vision and I don't even know how I did it. He needs a fix.
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@Wesker09 said:
I'm so ######### tired of running this perk cause I get tunneled so much and don't get me started where there isn't a single obsession so no ds this is getting to be ######### ridiculous dude, I just wanna use what i have fun with, not what i'm forced to run
Interesting. I don't run DS at all. How is my experience so different from yours?
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@Victor_hensley said:
I just played as killer against a SWF that harassed me the whole match with frame perfect t-bags and taunts, crouching every 2 frames, so they were using some type of external software, and managed to kill all of them in...no joke...40 minutes later (they were focused on F**king with me the whole match. No gens done BTW). Then, despite having an instant medkit with DS, unbreakable, soulguard, and borrowed time, screamed at me that was using "crutch perks" (I'm all ears, tinkerer, pop, and nurses calling). In end game chat, one of them called me a N****r, and the other told me that I "played like a lil B***h" and should k**l myself, finally ending with, of course, a sarcastic "ggez".
I'm not offended by it, or asking for sympathy, but I'm just taken aback by how cruel people can be in this game, and I hope nobody goes through this that might have depression problem, or in phycological distress. (I did report them for harassment, hope these a**hats get what they deserve).
Yeah... you pulled a Bully Squad. They aren't really there to play game, just try to get you to DC. Just milk it for points and eventually kill them all.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795226#Comment_1795226
Well with this way of thinking you will never be happy with anything. You assumed that this scenario meant me wanting an easy win as a survivor. Why? All I said was if there are 3 survivors left with one gen remaining you have pretty fair chance to snowball as a killer as well as get out all remaining survivors. While its more likely that at least one more person will die in order to achieve that the other scenarios are more fun.
I never said that games should be easy, but since you said i will simply assume that yours are. I dont take into account any challengesm because they are not part of the game, they are part of the grind and its up to you if you want to do it or not.
Noed is a horrible perk that no one in their right mind should run, so is DS for that matter (I try not to run it unless I get a tunneling streak). Mories are unbalanced so are keys. I mentioned that i didnt want killer to only partrol a 3 gen, because its boring. There is an easy counter to 3 gen and its called refusing to do gens until you move out of the area. And its technically not holding the game hostage if i taunt you to chase me.
But do as you please think what you want.
Actually, if you are playing at the level I am, if there is only one Generator left and three Survivors standing, the game is all over but the crying. The Fat Lady has sung. It would take a lot of luck to come back from that, and if the Survivors pulled four Generators only losing one person, they are solid enough that luck is not something you should be counting on.
As to what I think, well... I think you don't know what you are talking about.
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@DeliciousFood said:
Camping/Tunnelling/Early Aggressive slugging are easy strategies used by sub-par killer players, or killers that royally screwed up.
The Majority of killer players in this game aren't nearly as good as they think they are, as such making killers that thrive in these practices would please most people. Pyramid Head made tunnelling even more viable. The Twins made Camping and aggressive slugging (more so than even Oni) even more viable. Surprisingly, Blight is the anti-thesis of these lazy strategies. Must've been a slip-up.
Just learn to grief these killers. Hold the game hostage. Form a team and make their lives miserable. They won't hesitate to send you back to 10 minute queues after 1 minute of gameplay and 5 minutes of slugging/camping. Return the favour. It's likely unfun for them since they get nothing, but amusing to you because you're ganging up on the killer to ruin their spree. It's a valid strategy too, since in the end, you're playing on the killer's patience. Just don't do this to those who try to make the game fun and challenging for all, and even less to struggling killers who are trying but aren't very good. It goes from retaliation to just bullying.
EDIT: This applies to killers getting bullied too, just retaliate with aggressive camping/tunnelling/slugging. If the opposition wants to have an easy game, then take the fun away from it before they get their victory.
For the record, you have just advocated several behaviors that draw a ban. Doing so, can (and probably will) get you a warning from the Moderators.
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@Jejune said:
if there is 3 people left in the game with one gen remaining is the most fair game you can have.
If there is no noed and if killer does not only patrol the gens.
So you only feel the game is balanced and fair if you get four Generators up, only losing one person along the way, with the caveat that the Killer not bring a Perk, nor do the most basic thing which is patrol the remaining three Generators? I will refrain from telling you how I feel about this notion. It suffices to say we will have to agree to disagree.
A game should be hard fought, and in the games that end up a draw with me, the gates generally don't get opened until the second person is hooked, and the others bail. Two Kills and two escapes is generally seen as a draw. Of course, DbD has lots of different ways to rate a game for the individuals involved. You earn Blood Points, you earn Emblems, and sometimes you finish out Dailies or Rifts (which might have been your real goal for the match).
I just recently finished one of the last Killer Rifts I had from the old Tomes. It was the annoying one where you have to sacrifice (2) Survivors AFTER the End Game Collapse has begun, and you had to have NOED in your loadout. I don't care much for NOED so I kind of put this one off. That was a mistake. Timing two sacrifices in the EGC against Red Ranks is tricky at best. I didn't want to kill anyone too soon, and I wanted them to get the damn Generators up when I was ready for it. It was a tricky business. But even if two had gotten away, I had lost a Pip, but had only finished that Rift, I would have considered that a personal win.
This game isn't fair. It isn't possible for it to be fair. Even when all the people playing are the same Rank there is a wide variety in skills and play styles. Some Killers are your Achille's Heel, and sometimes Add-On(s) and Offerings severely tilt a game. Individual matches offer you a chance, nothing more or less. They cannot, by definition, be fair. Overall, however, the game is very fair. If you look at it as a journey to achieve certain goals, rather than match by match, you will find there is an amazing amount of balance in the big picture.
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I have to agree that is way harder to Adept a Killer than it is a Survivor. They just have to get out alive using their basic Perks. The Killer has to get a 4K using only the basic Perks. I wish I'd done these guys when I was playing back in the Potato Ranks. It is nearly impossible now that I only fight Red Ranks. Imagine trying to take on a squad of Red Rank Survivors with only Dying Light, Save the Best for Last, and Play With Your Food. It suffices to say I haven't managed it yet.
Heck, Survivors get the odd game with Santa Killers who don't interact with them and just let them do all the Generators and get out. Instant Adept. :) I've yet to run into a group of Survivors that line up dutifully and let me dispatch them. I would find that boring, of course, and wouldn't want to do that, but it is probably the only way I'll Adept some of these guys now without purposely holding myself back so I drop back down through the Ranks. And let's be honest, I don't approve of that. I think it is pathetic.
So that leaves me stuck and unable to Adept shy of a miracle. I have to agree with the original Poster that for Killers, if you want it to be comparable to how it easy it is for Survivors, is simply require a 4K with that Killer, and no Perk limitations, or for Pete's sake, at least least us bring one non-basic in our 4th Slot.
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794132#Comment_1794132
There can be no conflict with which to have fun with if the survivor isn't able to engage the game because of those tactics.
When a killer slugs, the downed survivor is made to sit there while not being able to do anything other than recover. When being tunneled there is some engagement, but only in the chase aspect of the game. Where they will be downed, then slung back on the hook. Camping prevents survivors from making an unhook that wouldn't result in the rescuer being put on the hook and camped.
I admit, I've been using the wrong metric to describe those tactics. fun is subjective, but part of having fun with dead by daylight is being able to engage in the game itself. Which those tactics can prevent.
And please stay on topic, poems and evolution have nothing to do with dead by daylight.
I did say that you would refuse to listen. I'm not surprised the poem and the comments on the nature of play from an evolutionary standpoint have gone over your head. It suffices to say that poem has everything to do with our conversation and the topic at hand. I have faith you and at some point you will figure that out. I hope it is sooner than later though. We will set that part aside for now, until you choose to revisit it with me again someday.
You are getting another point I was making, however, and have now admitted (or remembered) that fun is subjective. So, going back to my original points, if the game is healthy, growing, and popular we must infer that people are having fun. That makes more sense than assuming that people flock to games which are unfun in droves right? I think we can assume that if the game is still here after four years (and those tactics are still here and valid after four years) that the DEV are doing something right.
That means that your finding certain things to be NOT fun is a subjective judgement, and you may very well be in the minority. Lots of people complaining here (on the Forum) isn't really LOTS of people. Forums are like holes in the ground; dark water pools and builds up in them. The problem with Forum is best illustrated by having two types of polls to gather public opinion. See below:
Poll-1: Random Gather
This type of poll asks questions of a random people on the street corner. It is not effort on their part, nor were they expecting to take part.
Poll-2: Call/Write In
This type of poll invites people to call in or post their opinions. This takes effort and time, and people have to be motivated.
*The sad truth of the matter is that content, happy people rarely feel the need or take the time to call in or write in to say nice things. People who are angry or unhappy feel driven to vent. This skews Poll-2 violently to the negative. So it is only natural that on this Forum most of the things you see are whines and bile. But all the people who post here (who have ever posted here) are but a tiny minority compared to the total number of players. Do you see my point? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If people were not having fun, they would not continue playing. They would vote with their wallets. So you and I don't matter statistically. We are outliers, people who need to vent. You vent about things you don't like in the game, and I vent about people wasting time not playing the game. :)
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794067#Comment_1794067
Yes, it is the killers job to kill, But this is a game. It needs to be fun on both ends.
I'm not complaining about any one side in particular. But perks should not be used to compensate for unfun tactics that should have been addressed years ago.
I also mention that within the current meta the killers have to use those tactics to have a chance against coordinated teams. Yes they are solid tactics but they are used to the detriment of the survivors fun.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of games. The fun of a game is in the PLAYING of it, i.e. the challenge, the conflict, the pitting yourself against something hard and hopefully getting better. Games, from an evolutionary standpoint, evolved to hone the skills a creature will use to survive. That is why kittens play by hunting and pouncing each other, little goats play smashing horns or climbing things, and so on. Are they having fun? Absolutely. They will keep playing whether they win or lose.
Fun isn't provided by ANY game. You have to bring it with you. You get out of games what you put into them. That is a cold, hard truth that takes most people a lifetime to understand. Many don't figure it out until they are so old that they no longer have the capacity to play as many games as the would like. I'm providing you this information with the understanding that you will refuse to listen. I hope to be wrong, because you will profit kingdoms untold if you do. I'm just pragmatic about it; most people considering being taught something by someone else to have lost an argument, rather than having won wisdom.
If you aren't having fun playing this game, find one that is more to your liking. The health of this game indicates that overall, plenty of people are having fun. What is the difference between them and you? They also encounter (everyone does) tunneling, slugging, camping, and the Mori. Why is it when me and my friends play we aren't triggered into endless tirades of self pity. Why aren't we shoveling grief on other people. We sound like a Football game and will even cheer when downed when we see a wicked good play. My suggestion is that we play for love of the game, not for some weird personal fetish or make-believe power.
When you go into a game and understand its parameters and set no false expectations on yourself (or others) you will have more fun. The game is either fun for you or it isn't. If it isn't, why the heck are you still here? I always doubt the veracity of people making these posts because the logic doesn't track. With the thousands upon thousands of games out there, why waste your time playing one you seem not to like? Why waste even more time coming here to bellyache about it? It doesn't make sense, unless I accept that you are one of those people who enjoys bellyaching about things, and use the internet (and Forums like these) to feel potent and imagine you matter. I can't claim to be that different from you. I'm posting here too. I like to flatter myself that my intentions are different. I do play for love of the game, but why do I post here? I don't have to even be aware of your existence to keep enjoying the game. So we share some flaws.
I really want to help you. The game isn't what is wrong. It is you. You are looking at things backwards:
An old tree obscured my view.
It was sick, it was twisted,
Its leaves mottled, an unhealthy hue.
So I waited for it to die,
But it held on, day in and by and by
So I took an ax to its bough
A fallow field did I plow.
Now I stare at an unfettered view.
It is wide, it is empty.
Why does if feel older than new?
It wasn't sick, that old tree.
I know that now, it was only me.
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@chieften333 said:
So to start off, the twins as a killer have severe issues that the devs did not see coming in internal testing.
Someone has made a post explaining the issues with the twins in an in-depth manner much better than I ever could, read it if you want: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/210797/the-way-people-play-with-the-twins-proves-an-interesting-point#latest
for those who do not want to read it I'll summarize. The twins have thrown the spotlight on the issues of camping and slugging.
Now the devs have said before that they consider camping/tunneling/slugging to be valid tactics. But, they have implemented perks that act as band aid fixes for the abuse of those mechanics. DS for tunneling, BT for camping, and Unbreakable for slugging. It is worth mentioning that the only one of these that completely counters it's related issue is unbreakable. The devs also have somewhat recently brought up the point of how fun it is to go against something.
Those tactics (except camping) can make up for shortcomings in the match. Tunneling can keep survivor on a hook, thus requiring someone to get them off. Slugging is used to be able to apply massive slowdown by preventing multiple survivors from working on gens, while forcing a healthy survivor to pick them up. The main point is these tactics slow the game down to a point where the killer can win against coordinated teams.
So with all of that in consideration, why have the devs not addressed these issues? They are aware that fun is a factor in gameplay. But have not made Any attempts to make protections from those tactics in the base game. Despite many survivors complaining about how unfun they are.
At the same time, they have ignored the issue of match speed, something the 'unfun' tactics are used to address by players. That issue was to be resolved by the Early game slowdown mechanic, something that has not been mentioned for about a year, despite many voting for questions related to it in the QnA vote.
So why have those core issues not been addressed in the four years this game has been out?
Give your thoughts, sorry if this post comes off in a certain way. The intention was not to talk smack about the devs, but ask a legitimate question.
You have answered your OWN question. Let me break it down for you. These tactics have been four years ongoing (always indicated as valid). The game has only grown in size and popularity. Rather than bringing down the game, and ruining its fun (as you seem to infer) the game works pretty darn well. People (most people anyway) like a challenge. There are plenty of games out there where you are not playing PvP and they are rigged entirely in your favor. If this one isn't cutting the mustard for you, seek them out.
Why haven't they addressed these things? It is because they are not broken. They are not a problem. The vocal minority that is the never ending whine and moan here is nothing compared to the vast nameless faces whom we will never see post anything here or put anything up on social media. In short, the game is working out fine so far. They take a slow, meditative approach which honors the notion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." In short, they aren't going to tinker with something that isn't really a problem, and risk creating ACTUAL problems.
I know it sounds cold and all that, but they don't put much stock by the crying off on this Forum. I don't blame them. They have their own metrics they follow, based on statistics and whatever bias the DEV harbor themselves. Our individual experiences aren't on their mind; they are interested in the collective. And let me repeat, this Forum is NOT the collective. That is self delusion. I was tickled to watch the Q&A and see that one of the guys looks exactly like the bald Dwight. It makes me wonder how many of the other cosmetics are actually based on people we don't see behind the scenes over there. Perhaps some of you unhappy types can vent your frustrations killing their avatars over and over.
I'm not trying to trigger anyone with this post. I'm trying to be pragmatic and give some realistic perspective. Tunneling, Slugging, Camping, and the Mori are all part of the game. It wouldn't be an understatement to say that they are integral parts of the game. Changes to them must be very careful and very slow or the whole apple cart gets upended. The DEV understand that better than we do because their interaction with it isn't personal, it isn't colored by having just been tunneled, slugged, camped, and then given a Mori. In short, our own bias and frustration with anecdotal events clouds our judgement. They are tinkering with the goose that laid the golden egg, and cannot risk mistakes.
So, in closing (I've already gone on way too long), I also feel a twinge when I get tunneled. I don't enjoy being slugged for long periods of time (well it is really only a minute or two that FEELS like a long time), nor do I like being camped, and certainly don't want to catch the Mori. However, I will continue to GLADLY endure these things because the game would be more empty and hollow without them. I'm older than most of you. I played Pong when it first came out. I played Death Race 2000 which was basically Pong with a steering wheel where you ran down stick figure people. I was there when Wizard of War made its debut, and ruled the Arcade with PacMan, Donkey Kong, and all the rest. I was there for all the Fighting games, the rise the console, and up until now. Nobody wants to go back to PacMan. Bots that can only loop you in predictable patterns (which you can memorize) are not a challenge. We live in a video game age where we fight/hunt the ultimate game, i.e. sentient, cunning, and sometimes underhanded Players. If you take away their options, you are left with the Ghosts from PacMan.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1789070#Comment_1789070
Doesn't he regrow on Charlotte in 6 seconds if removed?
I don't recall how quickly she can call him forth after he is kicked/crushed, but that is not how I understood the (5) seconds used in context. I understood that as frustration and the poster saying that Victor would be back on the Survivor (5) seconds later.
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@cluedup_survivor1988 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791532#Comment_1791532
Why is it reportable then if it's a legal tactic? You might say taking the game hostage or sandbagging but it changed the narrative of the game completely simply because he body blocked, if it was an intended strategy you would get points for doing it.
Look, some people can't be taught because they choose, willfully to be ignorant of certain facts. Report away if you think it will do anything. Hint: It won't.
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@cluedup_survivor1988 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791427#Comment_1791427
Right so running to a pallet to use on the wraith while he is invis and he purposely gets in my way to block it is not toxic? Body blocking is reportable and what's acceptable to you doesn't mean it's not acceptable in general. He ignored a hit to block me then hit me, it's a scummy tactic.
Nope, not "toxic" not "sweaty" not any of the idiotic terms people throw around. It is just a game tactic and totally valid.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791398#Comment_1791398
Sorry but that wouldn’t work.
i have WAY too many hours in survivor and still can’t loop efficiently. That won’t change with more hours at this point. I shouldn’t be out against any killer players with equivalent amount of hours because they will in all cases wreck me.
it also wouldn’t work well for casual SWFs with different experience, you could argue they would just need to take the highest amount. But then see me and my rank 17 friend with 30 hours in. He doesn’t stand a chance and I am clearly not skilled enough to compensate that. RIP us and our unlucky random teammates
It would work fine. You aren't the only person with this issue. I also am terrible at Looping We aren't talking about individuals who are statistically irrelevant (like you and me). We are talking about a matchmaking system which will service the majority. Most people, statistically, do improve on a curve directly related to time in grade, i.e. practice. How much time you have to practice is the only RELIABLE standard by which we should match Players. Those of us who simply never get better might just benefit from ending up playing against better players. :) People who have less than 10 hours in this game, should only be playing other people with only 10 or less hours in this game. People with 2K hours in this game should be playing other people in their own range.
Will this be harsh to inept Players? Yes, but truly inept Players are rare. Most people get better with practice. If the ranges are forgiving enough, this system would work, and it would in fact work a lot better than what we have now.
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@cluedup_survivor1988 said:
I don't care who you are weather survivor or killer if you body block me on purpose to block pallet use you are getting a report, it's skewed enough towards the killer as it is without them resorting to underhand tactics like that.
What do you guys think?
I think you are wasting our time. Of course a Killer is going to move to intercept you and prevent you from hitting him/her with the pallet. That is commonsense and part of the game. If another Survivor gets in you way, chances are they did it by accident intending to do the same thing you were doing. If they are actively working against the other Survivors, however, report it and provide video evidence (record every game). Stop wasting our time.
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@Orion said:
They do read Feedback & Suggestions, that much I know.
I'm glad to hear it, but I feel bad for the DEV then. Even the Feedback sections of posts tends to get people jumping into the threads to fill them up with contradictory and whine posts. :)
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I think Matchmaking should be simply a matter of how many Matches have you played, i.e. time in grade. I think there are too many variables in this game, so the only thing which is fairly static across all Players is how many matches they have played as Survivor and how many matches they have played as the Killer (or a specific Killer if we want to be really fancy).
So all Players who have played say between 1-25 matches should only be paired with other Players of the same. *You have to have a broad enough number to have enough players for the group. The size of the matches should increase as you go up, of course. I'd say do this:
1-25 matches together.
26-50 matches together.
50-100 matches together.
101-200 matches together.
201-300 matches together
*And so on. Do all people hit the same level of proficiency in the same number of matches? No. But they have the opportunity to do so, and in that broad a listing, they should end up within striking distance of one another. Forget about Emblems, Ranks, and all that jazz. As Otz (all the big DbD players say in fact) there is NO SUBSTITUTE for hours in the game. That is the ONLY thing we should be using to match like players to like.
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@MadLordJack said:
Bit of a rant, I don't normally do this but this one I just have to share.
Just had a trial, as Huntress, in an extremely safe Tompson House. We're talking jungle gyms into jungle gyms, the kind of stuff that isn't really supposed to spawn any more. Every single survivor had the full second-chance build. You know the one I'm talking about. And these survivors are pretty good.
Now, the worst one was this Laurie. I downed her thrice (more than all the rest, because they were NOT allergic to gens (yay, 5-minute gens)), I'm clearly a pretty bad Huntress so I'm not complaining. Gates get opened, she gets unhooked, teammates heal her while I chase a Claudette, I'm just chilling, I know I lost in the lobby and I'm just trying to practice some hatchets.
Then that same Laurie jumps between me and the Claudette, I down them both because the Laurie wasn't that great, pick her up to eat the most obvious DS in history, chase her out (she tried to do the DH-Out-The-Gate and managed to screw it up so bad that I downed and almost picked her up), and the other three actually big brain me and get Claudette out, too.
Then this absolutely lovely Laurie proceeds to berate me in the chat so much that the other two PC survivors actually start defending me. She refused to acknowledge that I got her more than anyone, refuses to acknowledge the map, defends her obvious DS by claiming I tunneled her, she even proudly wore the fact that she never plays killer...
Some people.
By "some" you mean a LOT of people these days. :( I run into people like the Strode you describe quite often, and many of them are foul-mouthed in the extreme. What we have is an epidemic of spoiled, self-involved gits with no sense of personal pride or good sportsmanship. At least the other people in the after match chatter didn't stand by silent and let that nonsense go unchallenged. I think more Survivors standing up and against this bad behavior (and reporting it) is the way to get it solved.
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Weird. I'm a Red Rank Killer and for some reason, this evening, I'm pulling squads that are mostly Green and Purple with perhaps (1) Red Rank in them. It is kind of the opposite of your issue. I'm not too keen on it because I'm used to pulling all Red Rank or mostly Red and the odd Purple. Let's just say these matches aren't exactly fair, nor are they satisfying to me.
However, I don't think MMR has been on (as far as I know) for some time, so it being off is kind of par for the course. I think we must just be having a weird night where the people available at any given time are limited so it is throwing together Survivor squads that are not optimal.
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@jotaro said:
Please rework the reworked maps. The whole ormond is just a deadzone now, which is really bad for the game health. It is driving me and many, many others away from playing survivor, since maps like these new ones force people playing as survivor be stealthy, which is EXTREMELY boring for both sides.
Killer gameplay is boring as well, it doesn't feel fun or rewarding to down a survivor just because there was nowhere they could've ran to or nothing they could've done. Wake up BHVR!! Chases and mindgames are the main point and funniest part of the game, and literally the only exciting part of survivor gameplay, please don't take it away. If you continue doing this, the game will probably die. Please listen to the feedback of your customers, and don't just mindlessly do things.
We will have to agree to disagree. I like the new Ormond map and I have been playing it as a Survivor. I happen to enjoy Stealth just as much as Looping. Spice of life is a bit of both. I've also played it as a Killer and I didn't find myself rolling the competition, not even close.
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@EntitySpawn said:
i have never, and i mean never asked or wanted a killer nerf before not even spirit or nurse but seriously i will not play verse this killer. victor has very little counter against actual good players and when you do get rid of him hes back within 5 seconds. I am not holding victor on my back for 45seconds doing nothing, that is boring AF and my team hardly ever do gens and still go down against basic killers. IM A SOLO SURVIVOR, i am not playing a unfun and unfair match where a killer can camp but also have another killer move at 150% speed hitting and downing players all over the map slugging. Either make the cooldown of victor longer or make him uncontrollable when he downs someone. Id take the most buffed up nurse and spirit over this crap, at least im not punished as much and the killer cant camp and chase all at once with 0 negative even when outplayed or killed. NO THANKYOU
To quote Kirk, "Don't mince words Bones... tell me how you really feel." :)
Look, new Killers are always a nightmare until they are not. Within a week all of us will have adjusted to the new challenges Victor brings to the match and made peace with them. He doesn't trigger Spine Chill, so if you are relying on that, you have to start keeping your head on a swivel again and listening very closely. He moves fast and he has a big hit box, but he isn't the easiest missile to fire. Treat him a lot like the Nurse when you see him gearing up and you can juke that hit. If he lands on you keep moving; you can be moving and removing him at the same time. Chances are his Big Sis ain't that close and you can get rid of him. He is not back in (5) seconds. That is hyperbole but I can understand you are frustrated. He is an annoying little git, but you can manage him. I have faith in you.
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@Eynox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1788918#Comment_1788918
I'm more upset about very upset companies making players test their products free instead of actually highering testers. These guys are out of jobs because Open Beta testing and even one step further, forcing content on us in live servers is just out of hand.
That genie has been out of the bottle a long time. Most games get tested in the field now, and almost none of them are released in proper state. From the point of view of game design companies (all of them), why pay someone to do something when we can get a much larger report and sample data without paying anyone a dime? I'm not saying it is good; it isn't. I'm just saying that is the way things have been for at least 10+ years in my experience. Hell, it could have been going on longer than that, and I only noticed it ten or so years ago.
In a way, it is to our benefit if we want speed. They will pull a data sample and a list of reported bugs in just three days that would take a huge team of testers over a month to pull. So there is a benefit, with the only down side being we have to play through those bugs for a month or so. Is it a great situation? No. In the end, all of us are going to have to accept that there is going to come a point where the game will have to be entirely rebuilt from the ground up, and we will be buying it all over again. Most of the bugs and problems comes from the fact that this game was built into a system that isn't easily reworked. The optimization everyone wants, the quick fixes, and all that jazz just aren't possible.
They have spent four years laying code on top of code on top of code in a patchwork to evolve the game. It is like all those cords that slowly get knotted up under your computer desk. They didn't start that way, but somehow it became a nightmare to move the system. In short, if we want a brand spanking new DbD with all the bells and whistles and none of the bugs, we better be ready to pony up some cash and give them 1-2 years in development to build a new one from the ground up in a new system base. Or we can be patient and continue with our patchwork.
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@Mushwin said:
'Jus saying and he knows of DBD too lol ^^
You should have said, "So I can KICK the b**y!"
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Well... voting with your wallet is an option. It would be strange that this is the straw that broke the camel's back... IF.. you have been here since 2016. :) In fairness to the company, they told us they were releasing it early. They told us it was full of bugs. You didn't go in blind, so the buyer's remorse thing is kind of stale. I'm not thrilled about the bugs either, but I knew going in and I have faith they will be addressed. Still, as upset as you sound, perhaps you should go with your gut and hit the road.
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@senki527 said:
I only read negative stuff about the new maps reworks in this forum.
I just want to make an opposite thread, for all the people who enjoy and love the reworks, cause I do enjoy them for sure and wanna thank Bhvr for that. Please keep up reworking the maps, they look so much better now with new graphics.
Maybe just put a little bit more safe pallets into those maps and it will be perfect.
Thx
I like the new maps. I've not performed too well on them yet, but I like them. :)
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@Slendy4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1788287#Comment_1788287
But then why have a Fog Whisperer program if you don't plan to utilize it? Pretty ######### stupid if you ask me
You completely misunderstand why there are Fog Whisperers. I am going to sound cynical here, but I prefer pragmatic. The Fog Whisperers are free advertising, every streamer is free advertising. Good or bad, if people are playing the game, complaining or not complaining, it is more people that will try it out. That is their purpose as far as the company is concerned.
I'm not saying they don't note down those suggestions too. I'm just saying that they see Fog Whisperers as and advertising boon first.
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@Slendy4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1788208#Comment_1788208
Yet you had streamers play the PTB for a week straight (most streamers) Saying what's wrong with it but it's funny that they IGNORE those people and do something completely different. What were they doing the entire PTB? One of of the PTB yet nothing gets done but a timer for people kidnapping Victor. Yay 1 thing out of the entire chapter works good job
Again, since they identify as a statistics driven company, they are unlikely to put any great weight by Streamers, only numbers. Does that make sense? They are also unlikely to want to balance against Streamers. I'm not defending them. I'm simply telling you my best guess as to why this choice was made. I do give them the benefit of the doubt that they have a good reason for it. I doubt it is anything as nefarious as simply needing our money this week to keep the doors open. :)
Streamers aren't the community. We here at the forum aren't the community (as much as we delude ourselves otherwise). The community is actually the vast thousands of nameless faces you and I will never read a post from or see on the internet. I expect, that they are looking for a sample size big enough to make sure they have all the information they feel they need. I wish they had released it all 100% perfect, or at least far more finished than it is now, but things are what they are today.
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Well, I do know that Victor does NOT trigger Spine Chill so you have to keep your head on a swivel and listen for him. I have, since yesterday, played against the Twins a couple of times. Spine Chill will still tell you if big Sis is heading your way while you are working on getting the imp off your head. You know, at least, if you have the luxury of time in crushing him or have to keep moving.
I think to get to the Red Ranks as a Survivor probably requires the full package, i.e. great looping skills, good evasion, timing and knowledge of maps, as well as good planning and logistics with the other Survivors. You have to milk those hooks, protect when you must, and somehow (even when not a SWF) work as a team. Unlike Killer, your rise or fall is dependent on the others.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1788192#Comment_1788192
dunno if you're mocking me or if you mean it, but if it's the latter:
As said, the above is what people say is the proper counterplay to the killers in question, even if the killer's mechanic calls for evasion.
If it's the former: screw you.
No, I'm not mocking you. I hide, evade, and sneak. I've never gotten below Rank-6 as a Survivor so far (so I have no idea if I've peaked until I learn to loop better). But what I can (and will) say is that you can beat most Killers simply by not letting them see you. My standard build is Iron Will, Calm Spirit, Spine Chill, and Self Heal. I support my team, but I tend to do it by not getting caught. Looping, for me at least, is a bad idea. Running around in a chase is what I do when a plan has gone WRONG.
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If I were to guess (and that is always a bad idea), I would say that they released it in this state because they weren't getting enough activity in the PTB to feel comfortable with the results. In short, the PTB is just a limited release where they use us to find the problems. They don't fix them as we report them. They fix them all at once. So with that in mind, if they don't think they have enough people playing in the PTB it just makes sense to make us ALL part of the PTB and release it so they get maximum reporting. I expect you will start to see the fixing go on in about 1-2 weeks after they have collected all the info they feel they need.
Remember, they are a statistics driven company. Thus, if they don't feel they have a good sample, they are going to wait and get a bigger one.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
(Yes, this is a joke post, but the statements about how to counter killers are genuinely what people have said on this forum and other platforms)
Trapper: Loop
Wraith: loop
Hillbilly: loop
Nurse: pray she's new and loop
Shape: loop
Hag: loop then dc
doctor: loop
huntress: loop
bubba: give up, don't get near other survivors, don't ever unhook anyone or heal, have him have the kills
freddy: wake up. what do you mean all the means to wake up give survs a disadvantage in some way? well, then stay asleep and loop
pig: genrush and loop
clown: loop
spirit: see nurse and pray harder
legion: loop in case they actually get near you
Plague: loop and don't cleanse
Ghostface: loop
demo: loop
oni: loop
Deathslinger: DC
PH: DC
Blight: loop
Twins: point and laugh
It's so easy, innit?
Or you can do it my way and evade, evade, evade (because I'm a terrible looper) and only get in chases when the first plan falls apart. I consider it a good game when I barely see the Killer.
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@Valkyra said:
Before I took a break from the game, you could get matches in seconds, and both survivors and killers were fun, but I think they tried to change the game based on the community feedback, which should be good, but from what I can see no one actually agrees on anything, the community thinks the game is simultaneously too hard and too easy
Oh, and remember, you losing doesn't mean the game is bad
I don't disagree. I don't think the "community" has much of anything valuable to say because they say EVERYTHING and thus nothing at the same time. However, we would be deluding ourselves to think of this Forum as the community; it isn't. All the posters here combined (past and present) would only be a tiny minority against the total number of people who login and play. We are, like it or not, the vocal minority. For the most part, people who take the time to post in Forums are the worst possible bunch to seek feedback from. Most such people aren't actually interested in a serious discussion. They are here to make noise and make sure you know they are important. I say this with full understanding that I TOO post on this Forum. Does that mean I think I'm different? I hope I am, but I'm not so unaware of my own bias to truly believe that.
I am interested in the game because I enjoy it. I do give feedback now and then, but I am not offended if they don't take it. I'm interested in serious discussions, and could care less about the endless whining. The worst part of the ridiculous, self-important whining is that the din of it tends to drown out anything substantial anyone has to say. Do I think the DEV spend a lot of time reading here? No. Why would they? Nobody wants to read the posts of a bunch of people who do nothing but crap on them day in and day out. :)
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I just think people enjoy raging; I think some of them enjoy it more than playing the game. They warned us it was bugged. They listed the known bugs. Anyone who paid for it did so with full disclosure and just wanted access to the Twins and/or the new Survivor. I'm sure they ALSO know the bugs will be fixed in due time. They simply want a head start on practice now, and unlocking those things they want for their other Killers and Survivors. I don't think you are giving the people who made the purchase early enough credit. Me, I think most of them knew and understood exactly what they were getting.
So, if you didn't buy it, but just want to rage about an issue that may not even matter, go right ahead. Just don't blow smoke up our collective butts and tell us it is because you "care" or feel righteous indignation about it for someone else. You don't. You just want to bellyache. If there are bugs, report them. I played a game as the Trapper earlier today on the Ormond and a trap spawned where I could see it, half in a wall, but could not interact with it. I didn't rage about it; I reported it and got on with my life.
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@KingOfGhost said:
This " DLC" is trash and nothing work ( killer and survivor). So they right things is to refund everyone who buy it ( only currency they use ). Then after you fix it you releases it and ask again for money.
I have been lucky not to buy it and I really hope most of the community do the same. This can't go more the devs this time literally trying to sold us a PTB.
No matter what side you are preferring you must support this because no one know what unfinished PTB they will try to sold us.
Sorry for my bad English.
So why did you buy it when released when you KNEW it would be buggy? I never buy anything right away.