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@DemonDaddy No, it's not the only mean to counter Aura reading abilities, but BBQ is not the only problem: Freddy's dreamworld destroys your tokens, A Nurse's Calling is not counterable if there is a stealthy killer, some Wraith's, Myers' and Doctor's add-ons, Bitter Murmur are impossible to counter.@SnakeSound222 Someone could say BBQ is a product of endless whining from killers who refuse to look for survivors without magic visions... Read above, please.
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@Mister_xD Is it a revenge? Why all this rage? If you want to stay close to the hook, do it, it's your rightful choice, but do it because it really seems like a winning strategy, not to make someone pay it, it makes no sense. The stealth game is not fashionable, you will never find a team of four survivors with Distortion, at most you find four Selfcare and four Decisive Strike... You, and not only you, are magnifying the problem, in my humble opinion: BBQ will remain powerful and useful, it won't ever become rubbish.
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@Peanits The PTB is over, but this thread is still relevant for any future perk change. Could you kindly move it into the Balance feedback section? I thank you in advance.
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@bloxe I respect your point of view, but I think our Developers are working hard to make Dead by Daylight better! I have been seeing a lot of changes since I started playing it and I can guarantee you they read and appreciate our feedbacks and contributions. And I sincerely hope they will consider mine, too.
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@bloxe None of the possible balances convinces you? And don't you even accept that the killer can freely choose between the old and the new system?
I see a lot of users who complain that the killer is not powerful enough, that their perks are weak or useless: what do you expect to open appropriate threads to suggest the changes you think are appropriate? Complaining is fine, but without concrete proposals you do not get anything: help developers with specific ideas!
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I have devised a simple solution to satisfy both the favorable and the opposing players, without even having to tire the developers with new delicate balancing works: I have consequently rewritten the opening post, which I invite you to read again.
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@Crizpen We can continue to discuss it endlessly: I doubt we will find a shared synthesis between our positions, quite irreconcilable. I thank you sincerely for your dialectical contribution to the conversation and for the respectful tones in confronting you with the bearers of different ideas.
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@Crizpen said:
Of course, there are times when the RNG does not work in your favor, when you get a particular killer on a particular map that isn’t favorable to you, but the opposite is also true, and a particular killer on a map which is neither favorable nor unfavorable is most likely.To say a powerful perk needs a buff for those specific situations is hardly a good reason. How could it be limited to only those killer/map combinations you find frustrating, and not when it would only be exploited to god status in the vast majority of map/killer combinations.
If, as you say, a neutral combination killer / map is much more likely than a combination killer / map unfavorable to the stealth survivor, then in most cases Distortion is a wasted perk, as it gives you a protection that you could get for free with the three ordinary mechanics (approach less than 40 meters, lock yourself in a locker or crouch behind a generator). You should therefore be glad that someone chooses Distortion instead of Sprint Burst, because while it is almost inevitable to be chased one or more times in every game and, therefore, Sprint Burst is always useful, on the contrary Distortion is situational, ie shows its usefulness when nobody of the three free remedies is possible, in fairly limited cases. I would understand if your challenge directly hit the new mechanics of lockers, free for all, while I sincerely do not take the sense of fighting a more effective Distortion in its function of ensuring, to those who want it, that is a minority of survivors, a stealth game . Reading the Aura of the survivors is not a basic mechanics: it is generated by a perk and by another perk can be countered (partially: 100% bonus remains, and is an important part of its attractiveness).
@Crizpen said:
Of course, the game didn’t have BBQ at release, but it’s addition was good for the game health. It’s good for the killer to have reasons to leave the hook. Even if it means a different survivor gets chased. Even if that survivor is you.All over these forums are complaints about killers tunneling and camping, and there is one killer perk which specifically discourages that: BBQ and Chili. Why then add locker changes and Distortion which directly counter it?
I’ve asked the question here many times and the best response I have gotten is that 1 survivor shouldn’t be targeted because another messed up. As if this weren’t a team game for survivors.
I don’t want to camp, or proxy camp, as a killer, but what the Dev’s are giving us will only increase the likelihood that it will happen, and you’re suggesting making that worse.
Do killers have to have BBQ? Of course not, and it will be used less with the upcoming changes in favor of perks unaffected by Distortion. But will the game be more enjoyable for survivors? Probably not if you’re hanging on your first hook until you die because the other survivors won’t risk a proxy camp. Probably not if you’re saved off the hook and the killer is still close enough to tunnel you down.
I can understand giving survivors a way to counter Nurse’s, even if they don’t know or realize they’re within range of setting it off. BBQ, though, is an outstanding perk that not only assists the killer, but does exactly what survivors beg for: it gets the killer away from the hook. There’s no good reason for it to be countered any more than it already is since the aura only displays on far away survivors to begin with.
While the changes coming and those you propose might be good for you in specific situations, they aren’t good for overall game health. They aren’t good to keep people enjoying and continuing to play the game.
The killer leaves the hook because three other survivors can take advantage of it for a gen rush, sacrificing the hooked companion: the killer who wants 4k must get busy, cannot stay two minutes to scratch the balls near the first unfortunate who fell in their clutches. BBQ is a big incentive, I do not deny it, but I cannot accept the idea that the killers use it for the benefit of the survivors: the killers use it for their own profit, as it is right in a competitive game, not for philanthropic desire to ensure the adversaries' fun. I repeat, at least 85% of the killer I meet in rank 1 use BBQ and A Nurse's Calling or at least one of the two, while not even 30% of the survivors would choose Distortion instead of Sprint Burst, Decisive Strike and so on. I think your fears are decidedly excessive, in light of the clear preference of the survivors for a provocative gamestyle towards the killer.
However, the DLC will arrive in less than an hour: in the next days we will see if BBQ will really be removed from the killer builds because it has become useless. I do not hide my strong doubts that this will ever happen.
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@Crizpen @Dabrownman1812 You do real examples, but not very pertinent: the point is not to heal in the Trapper's terror radius in Coldwind Farm, the problem is to cure yourself with the Pig crouched in Lery or with the Wraith in The Game or with Myers in Backwater, to say. The problem is not to be seen with BBQ in the first minute of the game, the problem is not having any hope when you face Hillbilly or the Nurse in Shelton Wood, who has just sacrificed the last of your companions at the opposite end of the map. These are the cases in which stealth can save your life, it is in these circumstances that you need a Distortion worthy of the role. I repeat, they invented Sole Survivor, but it does not work, and nobody uses it: if Distortion protects you in the first minutes of play, when you do not need it, because the killer can choose other targets, because, if targeted, you can count on the rescue of others, but abandons you in the extreme need, it will not make a lot of career in the inventory of players, especially those who play alone, without parties and no friends ready to risk everything for you (yes, they're a race in extinction, but still some unfortunate solitary survivors exist...).
You say the truth, Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, Dead Hard and Lithe are very powerful perks for the survivors, and a good majority of players use them, but not me: I do not find any pleasure in mocking the killer, I look for emotional identification, so constant tension, an electrifying challenge for survival, and mocking those who want to quarter you from behind a pallet is not very consistent with the atmosphere of absolute panic that anyone would feel if that situation were real. And we come to your fear that the killer no longer sees any Aura and stays near the hooked guy: as you have recognized, there are other perks of fashion, the stealth style is clearly minority, and there is no risk that everyone uses it, destroying BBQ (without prejudice to the gain of 100% extra blood points, of course): people have fun with the loops, with the flashlights, teabagging the killer whenever a juke is successful, and have no slot to waste with Distortion. In addition, the game was born without BBQ and worked for long months without the imperative need to introduce "spells" to find the prey: you cannot claim that the killer is doomed to defeat if one or two players occasionally shield their Aura reading ability.
Finally, I agree with the killer buffs: I do not like facing an insipid enemy, or being tasteless myself when I impersonate him. Above all, I detest the useless perks: every perk must be a winning card, a special resource that gives powerful advantages to those who choose to invest in it, and this is especially true for those who, with four perks, must deal with sixteen. You will never see me as opposed to the killer perks empowering, unless they give the certainty of victory, destroying the challenge.
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Incidentally, I support the idea that the Distortion buff goes hand in hand with a fair strengthening of Frenzy, which makes it more effective and fearful and truly unique. Regarding the modalities, there are dozens of threads that deal with the matter brilliantly.
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
Still an invalid point, horrible math for a 4v1. It's not a simple addition. You see, the killer can still only go up to and chase 1 survivor. So it still forces a 1v1 chase at most and allows the other 2 survivors to save or do gens. You're calculating use vs practicality and impact on the game.Also for smart survivors. They know the map already and get in range or fake bbq reading by mindgaming the aura reading. bbq has counters already before distortion, and not all of the distortions will go off at the same time which you math doesn't calculate. The survivor on the hook will keep the 3 stacks.
You complain about bbq when many still stealth around it. Etc. Not only that, but some maps are since you wanna do the math, too big to look for survivors without aura reading because not every killer can zoom n search. Did you do the math on how fast gens get done? Lol. About 80 seconds at base and add 10 seconds if gen tapping with ruin. If a survivor is competent and keeps a killer busy for even 2 minutes, then there's the hook time before the travel to a survivor with a bbq reading. What does that make? Makes 3 gens done, 1 killer objective done (3 hooks per survivor so 12 objectives) and 3 survivor objectives done (survivors have to do 5 gens and 1 door so that's half done, 3 left).
Aura reading is there simply because at base, time isn't on the killers side. I'm a survivor main saying this, and I stil stealth bbq, still stealth nurses. Survivors aren't randomly having their auras read.
You are forgetting that information is power, that intelligence is the beating heart of every war: you reduce the Auras shown by BBQ to only one, because only one is the survivor you can chase ... It's not like that at all. Seeing all the distant Auras means mastering the map, and knowingly choosing where to hunt: you instantly discover if someone approaches a hex totem, you know if someone is healing or repairing in collaboration (and you make a banquet, if your name is Leatherface) , you realize the strategies of maneuver of your opponents, you can calculate the probabilities that a survivor, after searching a Chest, go to the generator X or Y (which you see, too), in short, you have an exact photograph of the enemy's moves. If all this really were not useful, then the perk would be: "When you hook a survivor, you see the Aura of a random companion over 40 meters", since it is only one that you can follow, right? I don't want BBQ or A Nurse's Calling or Bitter Murmur or other killer detection perks are nerfed, which means a Christmas gift for all survivors: I simply want the freedom to buy a good shield, paying a fair price. Sole Survivor is not a good shield (not only bad, but also broken mechanic: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/28469/sole-survivor-vs-bbq-chilli ), and nobody uses it: I hope Distortion won't share the same destiny, to be left on the shelves...
Let's speak concretely. What do you find unbalanced in my proposal (the three options are obviously alternatives, with preference for one of the first two)?
1) the largest number of tokens (4/5/6, instead of 3);
2) the reloadability of tokens (the @Robb_Stark proposal can be integrated as a recharge mode, for example: if you want to recover a token, then make the equivalent of a generator);
3) the ability to activate the shield on request.The size of the maps (the swamps have been drastically reduced), the gen rush, the ease of destroying Ruin are all interesting and reasonable speeches, but you cannot mix all the game mechanics in a thread about a single, new stealth perk, however still experimental, under verification and settling (PTB means this: try and let us know your feedback).
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@friendlykillermain @DarkGGhost I like "hide and seek": when I play survivor, I like a stealthy playstyle. If I cannot hide my Aura, then stealth is destroyed... But, you know, Distortion is 1 perk among 59: you cannot speak as if it were a passive protection given to everybody, no, you must pay to have it, and a lot of people will keep using other builds. Don't worry: BBQ won't become useless.
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@Bravo0413 I'll summarize you my point. I have compared FOUR Distortion vs ONE BBQ, and the result is the following: the maximum potential of 4 Distortion is equal to 2/5 of the maximum potential of 1 BBQ, in ideal, optimal conditions: this means that the entire team of survivors, considered as a whole, cannot even counter half the killer's Aura readings. Adding Bitter Murmur, A Nurse's Calling and other Aura reading faculties, the balance of power is even more unbalanced in favor of the killer. The bushes, the debris, the wheat fields, the trees, the ruined walls and all the structures are not only aesthetic decorations or obstacles for the chases: they are also hiding places. The killer has a first-person view and third-person survivors just to allow them to watch their backs, sneak in stealth when the heartbeat increases or something else suggests a strategic retreat. Dead by Daylight is a fatal game of hide and seek: the pallets, vaults, torches, are secondary tools, very useful, for heaven's sake, but the primary purpose of the survivor is to remain crouched, to evade the enemy. If you run, you leave red scratches and ravens flee scared; if you are hurt, the blood stains and the moans of pain betray your hiding place: these mechanics are becoming negligible, irrelevant, because the magic of the Aura shows the killer where you are: three quarters of the killers use BBQ, at least a third A Nurse's Calling , it's much easier to go without fail. I do not want the invisibility for free, I'm ready to spend a perk slot to get it, but give me back the atmosphere of tension, the thrill of the challenge, the fear of the unknown. Too many Auras, the rest is becoming side dish.
@DarkGGhost If Distortion counters some Aura-readings, the killer still enjoys up to 100% extra BPs, so BBQ doesn't become useless or weak.
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@Douseelight @Bravo0413 Report all the issues, please!
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@DarkGGhost said:
@Entità You forgot one small detail it's sapost to be 1vs4 if one person is equal to the killer then the killer will lose ( and plz don't try to use the database of dbd the are garbage). Second, they say ( if remember correctly) that it's will not counter killer add-ons. Last survivors have way more info than killers ( especial SWF) so in order, killer to play the game they need some kind of info in the game otherwise it's will pointless to try to find another Claudette.@Dabrownman1812 said:
Word, not bout playstyle. It's 4v1 a killer perk is supposed to counter n be more powerful than survivor perks. Jeff comes with aura reading the killer and aura blocking, killer has gen detection and locker juke reveal, seems pretty solid. Also stealth still works, maybe it's just you but I don't use stealth perks and I can still stealth. I'm not the only one.Are you sure you have read my message before replying that the killer perks must be stronger than the survivor perks? I have never compared Distortion vs BBQ, no, I have compared FOUR Distortion vs ONE BBQ, and the result is the following: the maximum potential of 4 Distortion is equal to 2/5 of the maximum potential of 1 BBQ, in ideal, optimal conditions: this means that the entire team of survivors, considered as a whole, cannot even counter half the killer's Aura readings. Adding Bitter Murmur, A Nurse's Calling and other Aura reading faculties, the balance of power is even more unbalanced in favor of the killer. This is unfair: ONE killer perk cannot count as EIGHT survivor perks.
The bushes, the debris, the wheat fields, the trees, the ruined walls and all the structures are not only aesthetic decorations or obstacles for the chases: they are also hiding places, to escape from the killer's murderous rage. The killer has a first-person view and third-person survivors just to allow them to watch their backs, sneak in stealth when the heartbeat increases or something else suggests a strategic retreat. Dead by Daylight is a fatal game of hide and seek: the pallets, vaults, torches, are secondary tools, very useful, for heaven's sake, but the primary purpose of the survivor is to remain crouched, to evade the enemy. If you run, you leave red scratches and ravens flee scared; if you are hurt, the blood stains and the moans of pain betray your hiding place: these mechanics are becoming negligible, irrelevant, because the magic of the Aura shows the killer where you are: three quarters of the killers use BBQ, at least a third A Nurse's Calling , it's much easier to go without fail. I do not want the invisibility for free, I'm ready to spend a perk slot to get it, but give me back the atmosphere of tension, the thrill of the challenge, the fear of the unknown. Too many Auras, the rest is becoming side dish.
Lockers? Find someone in Rotten Fields or Shelter Woods or in the Swamps (four typically stealthy maps, full of open-air hiding places) and we'll talk about it.
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
The point is it would be way too strong if you could choose, also if you have to choose then you don't know what perks they have cause that means you'll have to preemptively activate it. It's great because you can go into a locker when someone gets picked up to avoid losing a token. When you're healing you block nurses for some time automatically. Once your aura is revealed for even 1 second, you already gave the killer info. So yeh, it's good how it is.If I don't know what perks attempted to show my Aura is my business, not killer's or other players'. Who wants to be shielded from the trial beginning can let it active: I don't care to be invisible in the first two minutes, I want to be invisible when I have been hooked twice and I'm in extreme danger. The locker reform is not related to Distortion: it's a new passive mechanic for all survivors, about which my ideas are not clear.
@Dabrownman1812 said:
Ummm only jump scare meyers will do that mostly, which isn't common. Most meyers dont attach aura reading while stalk so yeh, not much mentioning. It also runs freddy through the ground as he has to leave the chase, leave survivor, and wait 10 seconds to see the survivor auraVery good point! I've completely forgotten this, because the Nightmare is the rarest killer I meet, when I play survivor: he can destroy your perk by simply bringing you in Dream World: if you are not able to find a gen or a mate within 30 seconds, Distortion has gone forever...
@friendlykillermain said:
NO its a bit too strong actually it needs a 180 second cooldown instead of token useageEhm... some explanation why it would be too strong? I made mathematical arguments: how can you rebut them in a line?
Look at Iron Grasp vs Boil Over: -75% wiggling effects for all survivors vs +75% wiggling effects for a single survivor, i.e. four Boil Over are equal to Iron Grasp (aside the secondary effects: a longer wiggling time in the killer perk and the disruption of hooks Aura-reading ability in the survivor perks). It's not madness: it's math!
Why do you want to destroy stealthy playstyle? If survivors loop, they are bad; if survivors use pallets, vaults and flashlights, they are bad; if survivors hide, they are bad... what the hell survivor playstyle do you want? All these Aura-reading abilities are destroying the game atmosphere, nobody cares about crows or sounds or blood: no, let's see all people with magic powers... What are the bushes, the dark areas for? What is Yamaoka Estate for? What is the use of the Dark Mist? Do all the maps flat like The Game and we'll finish it, then.
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@Crizpen I know how to counter BBQ: I made a comparison between the maximum power of the BBQ and the maximum power of four Distortion, in ideal conditions, and four Distortion are worth 2/5 of a BBQ: this is not a balance. We agree that the reality is different: the ideal consumption of a car, indicated in the instruction booklet, is almost always unattainable under normal driving conditions, but gives an idea of the average consumption of the car you are about to buy, do you understand the meaning of my comparison? In reality both BBQ and Distortion give worse results than expected, but this does not compensate for the initial imbalance.
Now, tell me something: in your opinion, is it different if the killer does not see anyone because of the distance, the lockers or the survivor hidden behind the gen or because of Distortion? The killer goes away from the hook in the first cases and magically becomes a camper and a tunneller in the second? And how do you know why people are invisible? Above all, the first strategies are for free, Distortion is a perk and you pay a slot to get it and it has to live up to expectations, and it's 1 perk among 59: not all survivors will run it, don't speak as if it were a passive protection given to everybody.With the current system, Myers can destroy the perk by simply chasing you and stalking with the right add-ons, you are not master of your perk, it depends exclusively on the circumstances: what kind of protection does it offer? It needs more tokens or a charging system (like Stake Out) or, at least, the freedom of the survivor to activate it when he wants, instead of risking to see the tokens consumed when he does not care to hide. A weak and situational stealth perk would be the bad copy of Sole Survivor: look at it, nobody uses it... ask yourself WHY!@Blueberry I have still to think about lockers reform.
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@Peanits Could you please close this thread? I made the mistake of treating the proposal of pallet regeneration separately from the others, I sincerely regret it, but I remedied with a thread containing the organic, integral, complete proposal, that is here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31911/map-resources-regeneration This thread has exhausted its function. Thank you in advance.
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@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY @FoggyDownpour @MrZapp @Link @powerbats @Tsulan @Master @ReneAensland @Mister_xD @GhostrickSpecter @Dragonredking @Blueberry @Countfunkular @Cymer @Boss @EntityDispleased @The_Crusader @AlwaysInAGoodShape @PhantomMask20763 @Kabu @BACKSTABBER @HellDescent @knell @Fenrir @thekiller490490 @Nickenzie @MrMyers @BieLey @Attackfrog @PiiFree @ToxicFengM1n @AChaoticKiller , who have so passionately commented on the pallet regeneration thread, would you kindly like to read the true, integral proposal, of which that was only a small fraction? If you want to criticize or despise my project, at least take the trouble to examine it entirely, with its weights and balances, with the advantages for both sides, and especially with the timing (a few seconds or several minutes are not the same thing!). Thank you for your kind attention.
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@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY @FoggyDownpour @MrZapp @Link @powerbats @Tsulan @Master @ReneAensland @Mister_xD @GhostrickSpecter @Dragonredking @Blueberry @Countfunkular @Cymer @Boss @EntityDispleased @The_Crusader @AlwaysInAGoodShape @PhantomMask20763 @Kabu @BACKSTABBER @HellDescent @knell @Fenrir @thekiller490490 @Nickenzie @MrMyers @BieLey @Attackfrog @PiiFree
To tell the truth, this speech was intended as a fragment of a larger mosaic, like a piece of the Enigmist's puzzle. Here, I personally believe that the challenge must remain exciting from the first to the last moment, that a player must lose because his opponent proves more skilled or clever, not because the tactical resources offered by the map are now exhausted: I do not like the idea of this going to die of the trial, I do not know if I can explain myself. For example, I would agree to allow the killers to reactivate a curse by lighting a dull totem or repairing a shattered curse totem: if the killer is willing to spend valuable time on a secondary target, it's OK to return him Ruin or Devour Hope or NOED. Of course, all this would require delicate balancing, but I understand the frustration of a killer who feels he has spent a slot perk unnecessarily: the Devs could, to say, impose a repair time directly proportional to the duration of the curse, so the killer re-activates easily if he lost it at the beginning of the game, but had to work hard to get it back if he already enjoyed it for a few minutes. I recognize the guilt of having treated the pallet theme separately from the others, I apologize, and I suggest you to read and comment on the complete, full, organic proposal (possibly in a civilized manner, but now I do not hope so much), that you can find here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31911/map-resources-regeneration
Incidentally, it is very interesting the moral stoning put in place against the promoter of a "heretical" idea, there would be material to revolutionize sociology studies about the fact that the Middle Ages is not set at all, that the burning of witches is still in vogue, and no, I have no prejudices against the Hag...
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@Master said:
@Entità said:
@Master said:
@Entità said:
Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.
MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!
First you need to bring up some arguments, then we can have a civil discussion.
I take the trouble to answer you analytically, since I have always discussed with pleasure and constructively with you.
To argue means, in sequence:
1) analyze and report the facts (premise of being);
2) apply a criterion of value, justice, opportunity to these facts (premise of having to be);
3) logically infer from the premises 1) and 2) a consequent conclusion.If:
1) the description of the facts does not correspond to reality, then the argument is false;
2) the applied criteria are not universally shared, then the argument is questionable;
3) the process of logical inference is wrong, then the argument is invalid.Here is my topic:
1) I analyzed the history of the sabotage of hooks, which today are regenerated in a certain period of time, and the different regime applied to the pallets, which remain broken (and is irrefutably true: just read the patch notes of the game, regarding hooks, and play it even once, regarding the pallets);
2) I applied a criterion of justice, consisting of the principle of equality (perhaps you do not share, then argues, as others have done meritoriously: @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD );
3) I have logically drawn from the premises 1) and 2) the conclusion that even the pallets should regenerate.The existence of an argument is objective, while you pretend to consider this only the topic you share, as if to say that only the opinions that you arbitrarily decide to approve are debated, instead dialectic does not work like this: you do not have any title to disqualify the opinions of others, considering them non-existent ("First you need to bring up some arguments..."), instead you only have the right to:
A) choose whether or not to spend your time for a replica;
show that the argument of others is false, questionable or invalid;
C) share the argument of others.1) Yes hooks regenerate over time, pallets are broken if the killer breaks them.
2) Criterion of justice? Excuse me?
With the same logic you can argue that the killer should have the ability to activate some kind of sprintburst because survivors can, or even a dead hard. Does that sound like a criterion of justice or equality? Or how about
I want you to provide actual arguments why pallets should regenerate over time. In my opinion this would immediately break the game if implemented.
And just a side node. Killers were ok with the sabo-meta and adapted accordingly (as usual). The outrage came from the survivor side because they were slugged and were left bleeding out on the floor because the "toxic killer" didnt let them wiggle out. Guess why we have regenerating hooks now
The killer already has a sort of "sprint burst": it's called "bloodlust", it's automatic, it was not there originally, it was added later and I fully endorse it. The killer is meant to hurt, down and hook up survivors to death, and enjoys special tools, which help him in chase, ambush, attack. The survivor is meant to escape the killer's attacks, and we know very well that no escape is possible by running in a straight line, so pallets and vaults are crucial to offer the survivor an opportunity to escape: the vaults are blocked, in case of triple use, only for a few seconds, after which they can be used again, by the same and by the other survivors, so even the pallets should be usable again, after a congruous and not short period of time. The killer has a power basically equal to a team of four survivors: as they die, the power of the killer over the survivors grows enormously. Now, I ask you: would a killer be in crisis if the last survivor could use a previously spent pallet again? The killer who chased a survivor without problems with all the pallets intact, while another three of his companions worked on generators or totems, would be desperate to follow the last victim left with some recycled pallets, while no one else does anything, because other people are dead? I do not speak of a regeneration after a few seconds: six or more minutes, will be the tests to quantify the most appropriate waiting.
To tell the truth, this speech is a fragment of a larger mosaic, like a piece of the Enigmist's puzzle. Here, I personally believe that the challenge must remain exciting from the first to the last moment, that a player must lose because his opponent proves more skilled or clever, not because the tactical resources offered by the map are now exhausted: I do not like the idea of this going to die of the trial, I do not know if I can explain myself. For example, I would agree to allow the killers to reactivate a curse by lighting a dull totem or repairing a shattered curse totem: if the killer is willing to spend valuable time on a secondary target, it's OK to return Ruin or Devour Hope or NOED. Of course, all this would require delicate balancing, but I understand the frustration of a killer who feels he has spent a slot perk unnecessarily: the Devs could, to say, impose a repair time directly proportional to the duration of the curse, so the killer re-activates easily if he lost it at the beginning of the game, but had to work hard to get it back if he already enjoyed it for a few minutes. As you see, I'm not a fanatic, I do not hate killers, I do not want to ruin the game to anyone: I dream of a richer mechanics, but I recognize the guilt of having treated the pallet theme separately from the others. I apologize, and I will remedy with a special thread.
@AlwaysInAGoodShape @Countfunkular The answer above is also for you. I do not reply in detail to your specific objections because, as I have already said, this thread is born as a fragment of a wider discourse, that I would have to set integrally from the beginning, to avoid any misunderstanding: what was meant to be a more orderly treatment was instead perceived as madness against the killers and attack against the game. It never has been. My mistake, I will remedy with a special thread, which addresses the whole matter.
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@Entità said:
The developers composed dozens of songs from the release of Dead by Daylight until today, and each soundtrack has lasted just a few weeks. Instead of forgetting the fruits of your labors after a short use, would not it be better to allow players to customize the main menu by choosing their favorite piece of music among those released so far?I submit this proposal to @not_Queen @Peanits and other great guys who created this amazing game!
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@Countfunkular said:
@Entità
Well here's the thing.
1. With the first one it would be rather difficult for the developers to say which one is safe or not. This is mostly based on the killer because if you're playing clown, doctor, or the chainsaw brothers then no pallet can be considered safe.I hate to say it it would be too map based as well. Fighting a killer in an open field is much different than fighting them on a map of the game. Especially that hospital considering that they are at least five unsafe pallets there at a time.
Has for reworking an existing Perk. That would be interesting but would take way too much time just to get it destroyed by a random teammate you didn't want using it in the first place. Also that would encourage building teams to literally have one player that goes around a bunch of safe pallets for survivors and do nothing but rebuild all the used pallets. You would have one being chased by the killer 1 rebuilding every pallet was broken especially the god pallet. 2 working on generators.
It would make matters much more difficult for the killer because if it was a perk only survive with friends would use it. It would make no sense to carry around and solo play just to have some random guy use the pallet I was planning on using.
1) Maybe, the procedural algorithm could put some regenerating pallets among normal pallets: a surprise for every player.
2) See above.
3) It would be a secondary objective, useful to slow the trial: if you spend 10 seconds to rebuild every pallet you meet, that means less time to heal, rescue, repair, cleanse...@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Entità
You see, giving hook generation to killers =/= giving regeneration to pallets.
If killers get hook generations after sacrifice then this might help then hook a survivor 5 seconds faster because they have to walk slightly shorter, but giving survivor pallet generation makes the game unplayable for killers. (pallets already do)I don't see why, when you love playing stealthy, you'd want there to be more pallets? The developers Bully Stealth oriented players with all type of anti-stealth perks/location revealing perks/abilities/addons etc incentivising survivors to go for endless loops.
If anything, you should advocate for less pellets and more stealthy tools in the game.
Killers don't have that much options against pallets, but all killers would be able to catch a survivor off guard or could stumble upon them, creating more healthy gameplay.Pallets shouldn't respawn; they should be lowered in numbers/ killers should have more tools against them.
I do not want the pallets to regenerate for me: many of my threads are not functional to my personal interest, but respond to my desire to see more varieties of play, more tactical opportunities on the field (see: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/25052/new-perks-offerings or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/28160/six-perks-system or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30705/about-the-release-of-a-map-editor ), or aim at perfectionism in aesthetics or in game mechanics (see: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/28110/about-restoring-the-5-level-rarity-system-for-perks or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30297/decisive-strike-possible-changes-reworks or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31674/environmental-effects ; and sometimes they are even contrary to my prevailing interest: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/29692/memento-moris-buff ) or at peace among players in the Community (see: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/28414/lets-speak-clearly-of-toxicity-from-definitions-to-remedies or https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31329/lets-speak-clearly-of-the-hatch-issue-from-definitions-to-remedies ).
About more stealthy tools, I wrote https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31203/detection-and-stealth-perks-buff Your contribution is welcome in every thread I opened.Aren't Spirit Fury, Brutal Strenght and Enduring good killer tools against pallets? What do you suggest to add?
@Boss said:
@Entità said:
@Boss Two simple replies:1) after 180 seconds the gen near the broken pallets will reasonably be repaired, so that zone of the map will lose the most part of its tactical relevance;
2) Cymer did an interesting proposal to amend mine: read it, please.
Alternatevely, what would you think of it if:
1) the pallets regenerated, but were not safe (ie the killer can reasonably circumvent them)?
2) the pallets could be repaired with a new perk or the reworking of an existing perk?If you have a zone where pallets get repaired and there's no generators, it's the perfect place to kite killers to.
And the killer only patrolling the generators would then lead to no result for either side.
Since there's already enough opportunities to kite killers away, i myself am not satisfied with #1.Cymer's suggestion's fine if the killers had the time.
They don't, not with generators being done in 5 minutes.Your alternatives...
1's very vague, i'll need an example.
Tell me if i'm wrong, but i think the devs already said no to #2.In addition, it's helpful to others if you put info that's added later into the topic.
Not everyone likes scrolling through every comment & you'll create clarity quickly.It is an undue generalization: not all games end in five minutes and in any case I think it is the individual killer's business to decide whether to spend time on pallet sabotage or not. Do not you think it's a bit too "paternalistic" to want to protect the killers from possible loss of time, freely chosen by them as part of the challenge and their playstyle?
About your replies to my alternatives:
1) read my reply to @Countfunkular, a few lines above;
2) I really don't know.
I'm periodically editing the opening post. -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape My proposal was amended with other people's contributions: please read the opening post again, I adjourned it.I seldom use pallets and never do loops: my strenght is stealth playstyle, with excellent results. And I'm fine with hook regeneration after a sacrifice.
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@Boss Two simple replies:1) after 180 seconds the gen near the broken pallets will reasonably be repaired, so that zone of the map will lose the most part of its tactical relevance;2) Cymer did an interesting proposal to amend mine: read it, please.Alternatevely, what would you think of it if:
1) the pallets regenerated, but were not safe (ie the killer can reasonably circumvent them)?
2) the pallets could be repaired with a new perk or the reworking of an existing perk?
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@Cymer I'd try with pleasure the rework you said (the killer can sabote a unused pallet with a special interaction, which requires a just amount of time, but pallets can regenerate), to verify the proper balance.
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You cannot interact with a photo, put the circle over it to read its description... Of course, it's not the most urgent thing to do, but I understand the OP point.Hitm3on3mor3tim3 said:
Then why not take a screenshot.Entità said:BigBubs said:@MegaWaffle said:
@willcenx @Hitm3on3mor3tim3Lots of people prefer to save these items/offerings as souvenirs and I agree it sucks to lose them if you prestige. Why should you be punished for that?
"Punished" by losing something that is useless because you want to keep it for...looking at it? xD
If the offering is so important to you then they probably worth more than a bloody piece of clothing. It used to be nice to get a piece of cosmetic back when there was no store , but now it's nothing special.
So yeah , if you want to keep the offerings that you can never use then don't prestige.Why these maximum systems? Precisely because the items and offerings of the event are unusable, they can be made immune to the reset of equipment due to prestige: utility is not the only criterion of choice, there are also beauty, nostalgia, memory.
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Something really strange: last night ten Father Campbell and four Badham, without any offering. O.o
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@Countfunkular Oh, you have all my esteem for the argumentative capacity on the merits, the calmness of the style and the propensity to respect others, unfortunately rare qualities nowadays. Thanks to @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD too, for their contribution.
On the merits, what would you think of it if:
1) the pallets regenerated, but were not safe (ie the killer can reasonably circumvent them);
2) the pallets could be repaired with a new perk or the reworking of an existing perk?
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I take the trouble to answer you analytically, since I have always discussed with pleasure and constructively with you.Blueberry said:So this isn't supposed to be a troll post...just wow
To argue means, in sequence:
1) analyze and report the facts (premise of being);
2) apply a criterion of value, justice, opportunity to these facts (premise of having to be);
3) logically infer from the premises 1) and 2) a consequent conclusion.
If:
1) the description of the facts does not correspond to reality, then the argument is false;
2) the applied criteria are not universally shared, then the argument is questionable;
3) the process of logical inference is wrong, then the argument is invalid.
Here is my topic:
1) I analyzed the history of the sabotage of hooks, which today are regenerated in a certain period of time, and the different regime applied to the pallets, which remain broken (and is irrefutably true: just read the patch notes of the game, regarding hooks, and play it even once, regarding the pallets);
2) I applied a criterion of justice, consisting of the principle of equality (perhaps you do not share, then argues, as others have done meritoriously: @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD );
3) I have logically drawn from the premises 1) and 2) the conclusion that even the pallets should regenerate.
The existence of an argument is objective, while you pretend to consider this only the topic you share, as if to say that only the opinions that you arbitrarily decide to approve are debated, instead dialectic does not work like this: you do not have any title to disqualify the opinions of others, considering them non-existent (like @Master did), or to insult others ("troll post..."), instead you only have the right to:
A) choose whether or not to spend your time for a replica; show that the argument of others is false, questionable or invalid;
C) share the argument of others.
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BigBubs said:
@MegaWaffle said:
@willcenx @Hitm3on3mor3tim3Lots of people prefer to save these items/offerings as souvenirs and I agree it sucks to lose them if you prestige. Why should you be punished for that?
"Punished" by losing something that is useless because you want to keep it for...looking at it? xD
If the offering is so important to you then they probably worth more than a bloody piece of clothing. It used to be nice to get a piece of cosmetic back when there was no store , but now it's nothing special.
So yeah , if you want to keep the offerings that you can never use then don't prestige.Why these maximum systems? Precisely because the items and offerings of the event are unusable, they can be made immune to the reset of equipment due to prestige: utility is not the only criterion of choice, there are also beauty, nostalgia, memory.
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@Master said:
@Entità said:
Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.
MrZapp said:Intensity intensifies intensely
Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!
First you need to bring up some arguments, then we can have a civil discussion.
I take the trouble to answer you analytically, since I have always discussed with pleasure and constructively with you.
To argue means, in sequence:
1) analyze and report the facts (premise of being);
2) apply a criterion of value, justice, opportunity to these facts (premise of having to be);
3) logically infer from the premises 1) and 2) a consequent conclusion.If:
1) the description of the facts does not correspond to reality, then the argument is false;
2) the applied criteria are not universally shared, then the argument is questionable;
3) the process of logical inference is wrong, then the argument is invalid.Here is my topic:
1) I analyzed the history of the sabotage of hooks, which today are regenerated in a certain period of time, and the different regime applied to the pallets, which remain broken (and is irrefutably true: just read the patch notes of the game, regarding hooks, and play it even once, regarding the pallets);
2) I applied a criterion of justice, consisting of the principle of equality (perhaps you do not share, then argues, as others have done meritoriously: @FoggyDownpour @powerbats @ReneAensland @Mister_xD );
3) I have logically drawn from the premises 1) and 2) the conclusion that even the pallets should regenerate.The existence of an argument is objective, while you pretend to consider this only the topic you share, as if to say that only the opinions that you arbitrarily decide to approve are debated, instead dialectic does not work like this: you do not have any title to disqualify the opinions of others, considering them non-existent ("First you need to bring up some arguments..."), instead you only have the right to:
A) choose whether or not to spend your time for a replica; show that the argument of others is false, questionable or invalid;
C) share the argument of others. -
@sulaiman I know, in fact about the hatch issue I opened a thread, now huge: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31329/lets-speak-clearly-of-the-hatch-issue-from-definitions-to-remediesIt's almost impossible a dying survivor reaches the hatch, without exceptional luck...
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Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:I seriously hope this is a joke or bait thread.MrZapp said:
Intensity intensifies intensely
Your inability to face a discussion civilly, arguing on the merits, as instead @FoggyDownpour has done, is really unseemly. We are on a forum: explain your opinion, give a reasonable contribution!Link said:gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8
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@Peanits Something really strange: tonight ten Father Campbell and four Badham, without any offering. O.o
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@Peanits Oh, yes, let the weather be a "character" during the trial, like General Winter was during the Russia invasion.
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I have in mind a more elaborate system: the map is revealed during loading, immediately after the offerings, and each player can cast a vote from 1 to 10. This vote does not affect the current game, but the probability that the map is randomly selected in the future games of that player, obviously taking into account the preferences expressed by the other four players involved.
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Other contributions? I'd like to read more people's opinions.
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I have also noticed the particular recurrences of maps of a certain realm every day, but I could not detail which ones.
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Entità said:In practice, you suggest who runs Small Game should have the normal perk effect and see how many totems are still in the map. I agree: you pay a slot for this information, nobody can complain it's free.
Meeeh. I mean, would be better yes. But still a perk slot wasted while swfs don't have to use it.
It's not a waste: Small Game, if buffed, should provide you that info and the alert when you are near to a trap or a totem. Do you suggest that info should be given everybody without any perk?
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
Remember [...] when Perks could be Ultra Rare?This system of rarity has been removed for the wrong reasons and should be restored for balancing needs and reasonable differentiation, in costs and rarity, among perks of different impact on the game (three tiers and three levels of rarity simply do not work, involve distortions and flattening in the classification): https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/28110/about-restoring-the-5-level-rarity-system-for-perks
I really like to rediscover the origins of this game, its slow evolution towards the current mechanics, the progressive enrichment of new characters, maps and perks.
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In practice, you suggest who runs Small Game should have the normal perk effect and see how many totems are still in the map. I agree: you pay a slot for this information, nobody can complain it's free.
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I just had a trial as a solo survivor with 4 kills and 0 gens. I was found first and my mates did the worst rescue ever. Disappointment, of course, but I'm glad for the killer fun: this time other people won, the next trial you'll find a better adventure.
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A few weeks ago I suggested the same idea: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/22749/new-killer-the-thingIt would be really interesting! **
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If the Community agrees, maybe the Devs will be glad to satisfy our desire!
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I'd love it! **I think I have read that this chapter will be the culmination of a very old project: maybe the ability to climb? A Wendigo enjoys supernatural agility, the heights are great for launching ambushes against the poor prey...
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Other contributions?
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It could sound like this:BACKPACK: You can equip a third add-on, if none of them is upper than uncommon/rare/very rare.
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Are you all gone? XD