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@SnakeSound222 In my opinion, the opposite is true: since there are no "guaranteed seats" in the Bloodweb for each level of rarity (in which case an Ultra Rare perk could undermine an Ultra Rare add-on), but the RNG selects random resources, it is more likely that a Very Rare perk will prevail over an Ultra Rare add-on, having a greater chance of being drawn, than an Ultra Rare perk over an Ultra Rare add-on.
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@Maximus7 I do not speak of survivors who spend time wandering around on the map without doing anything (they don't reach high ranks!): no, I refer to players who make the generators, cleanse the totems, save their mates, but prefer to avoid chases and loops with a healthy caution moving from one goal to another, unlike those who, just as legitimately, enjoy keeping the killer busy for long minutes. Different and complementary strategies, both worthy.
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@Maximus7 said:
Less immersion, please. The reason people like me (with over 1k hours at least) keep playing is for the interactions between survivor and killer. Hide and seek gets old really quick on both sides. You already got Distortion (which is alrready ridiculous as-is) and locker aura blocking, you don't need any more stealth buffs.People like you deserve the utmost respect, but they are not the universal unit of measure for all players: each of them prefers one or more aspects of the game, and they are all equally worthy of consideration.
Moving on to the practical side, I've never seen killers complaining about Iron Will or Windows of Opportunity or Dance with Me, and I've almost never seen survivors using them. Making the perks I listed in the opening post more desirable means to create a strong competition with the inflated combination "Adrenaline (or Borrowed Time) + Decisive Strike (or Deliverance or Urban Evasion) + Dead Hard (or Sprint Burst or Lighte or Balancing Landing) + SelfCare (a large majority of survivors use it)": the game would gain in variability, and those perks would not take the mold on a shelf.
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@powerbats said:
I understood that as well, but you're asking for a reasonable timetable but if they say 2 days and then the fix is worse than the original or takes longer they get accused of lying. They haven't given a timetable because they don't know yet.Not from me: it is clear that between the planning and the realization of an intervention, many unforeseen events can occur. As soon as they have a clear idea of the times, they will answer, and my simple curiosity will be satisfied: there is no urgency.
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@Nickenzie These are not grammatical errors, but dangerous terminological choices (that confuse "healing" and "mending", "repairing" and "recovery", to be clear), missing pieces, parts left in English or specific words translated in two different ways (so as to make it believe that they are different state effects, rather than simple inconsistencies in the translation of the same concept). I am sure that the developers will quickly and efficiently remedy the problem: I have full confidence in their work, and I always try to support and facilitate them with analytical and detailed reports.
@powerbats said:
@Ryuhi said:
@powerbats said:
Well the patch just recently came out and they've said they don't want to knee jerk reaction changes but stead improvements.Most of the issues aren't game breaking per se and some of it's related to the latest Unreal Engine update so most likely in the next 6 days or so.
The game crash one is a pretty big deal, especially since it happens after offerings have already been burnt...
Yes, but it's also not something super easily fixed and throwing something out there hastily always backfires which is why they need to test it internally and then make sure the fix isn't worse.
Let me be clear, I have no intention to make the developers rush: I only ask for a reasonable estimate of waiting times, which I will willingly accept for the good of this magnificent game.
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@powerbats Maybe I expressed myself badly. I do not speak of changes in the balance of Legion's power and the like, which require observation and weighting times: I refer only to the restoration of the new map (particularly fitting with the Christmas atmosphere), the removal of bugs and crashes (a lot of them have been reported in the proper section of this forum) and the correction of some errors in the localization (I cannot tell you about other languages, but some choices in the Italian translation are seriously confusing and problematic, especially for new users). However, six days are far preferable to having to wait until after the Epiphany: playing the whole Winter Solstice event without the Ormond Resort would be sad, for example.
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@TAG @SnakeSound222 I do not understand your fears, since the difference between "ultra rare" and "very rare", in absolute values or percentages, is not known (if you know something, please report it here). And most importantly, if the ultra rare items, add-ons and offerings do not scare you, why should you fear the ultra rare perks? Incidentally, the restoration of the classic system would not be unbalanced upwards: on the one hand, some purple perks would become pink, but on the other hand, some yellow perks would become brown (resulting in less rarity and price), that is, more accessible than they are today.
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@TAG said:
You want to make certain tier 3 perks more expensive to fix what is borderline a non-issue. Not worth it IMO.I repeat, I do not propose to overturn the system, but to restore the original idea of the developers, which was turned upside down to face an emergency, as explained in the opening post: the emergency has passed, the classic system can finally recover the place that is up to it in the game. And 1000 more BPs is a ridiculous price increase, it cannot harm anyone: the greater rarity is more important than the higher price.
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@redsopine01 I accept both natural and supernatural environmental effects willingly. XD
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@Toxicity23 A SWF team does not need this reform to know that they must destroy the Ruin totem, and it's not good to reduce a general discourse to very special cases. I do not propose to overturn the system, but to restore the original idea of the developers, which was turned upside down to face an emergency, as explained in the opening post: the emergency has passed, the classic system can finally recover the place that is up to it in the game.
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@TAG said:
These seem like REALLY minor things that are not worth making several Tier 3 perks rarer/more expensive.Are you afraid that, with the 5-level rarity system restored, you'd have more difficulty finding the perks you want?
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@redsopine01 Blood rain?
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@Incarnate Honestly, I fear that your vision of "balance" implies a flat, uniform, predictable and repetitive game: if you eliminate the rarity even from the items, then there will be only one toolbox, one torch, one medical kit, one map ... And it would be a serious problem to treat Judith's Tombstone and the last of the Shape's add-ons the same way, to give a striking example. I believe in the balance without prejudice to the variety, I believe that the game should tend to guarantee equal opportunities for entertainment to all players, who, for their part, must be able to adapt their strategies to the resources available to them. A perfect balance would require leaving only one survivor, because their different appearance, tones of moans and facial features make two survivors differently visible from the killer: it does not seem a sufficient reason to make a clean sweep of the whole sample. Moreover, in purely practical terms, why should developers dismantle a large network of mechanics, cosmetics and special nuances that have been painstakingly built and perfected over the years?
@TAG I like the color choices of the developers, I have no reason to deny it, but it is irrelevant: my speech would not change a comma even if the levels of rarity of the perks were represented by white, yellow, orange, red and black, or in any other symbolic way. Aesthetics is the last of the considerations.
Taking up the example above, I think Hope has an intermediate strength between Small Game and Sprint Burst, so it should be, as well as shown by the 5-level rarity system:
1) Small Game: Common, Uncommon, Rare;
2) Hope: Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare;
3) Sprint Burst: Rare, Very Rare, Ultra Rare.
Today, Hope seems as powerful as Sprint Burst, and it's false.Moreover, the logic requires to consider Devour Hope 3 rarer than Devour Hope 2, Premonition 3 rarer than Premonition 2, because they are stronger, while they currently share the same level of rarity: it is absurd to say that a musket and a rifle, an apartment in a condominium and a villa, a starred restaurant and a tavern in the suburbs, are classified in the same way. It is not just a matter of classification, of love for the abstract order, of perfectionism: the rarity of perks influences the probability of their appearance in the Bloodweb, and their price. Why should the same frequency and price be given to resources clearly having a different impact on the game? Have an appartment and a villa the same price? Not at all.
Why is the 5-level rarity maintained for items, add-ons and offerings? Why do the perks have to be different? Why must the most powerful tools in the game receive the most superficial and poor treatment? It was a remedy for a bug in the Bloodweb, which prevented the rarer elements from appearing, until all the less rare perks had been bought, but this now belongs to the history, to a far past: today I quietly find purple perks, without having purchased all the green ones, so why shouldn't I find pink perks, without having bought all those purple? I believe that the time is ripe to restore a system not only loved by the community, but also intrinsically more functional, and the Wiki of all languages are there to testify it with a warning to readers: "Our Wiki still uses the colours and Rarities of the old Rarity-System from before Patch 1.5.0, the main reason being that all three Perk Tiers thus can be easily differentiated visually from one another with the way they are formatted on the Wiki. They are not to be changed."
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@Incarnate I simply think Hope has an intermediate strenght between Small Game and Sprint Burst, so it should be, as before well shown by the 5-level rarity system:1) Small Game: Common, Uncommon, Rare;2) Hope: Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare;3) Sprint Burst: Rare, Very Rare, Ultra Rare.Today, Hope seems as powerful as Sprint Burst, and it's false.About your point, luck is part of the game: if a survivor is lucky and finds the Skeleton Key, they have a meaningful advantage, and not all survivors have it. Do you consider it a balance issue? The same happens with the perks: even suppressing the tiers, if other people finds DS at the third level and you have to wait until the thirty, is that a balance issue?
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@NoShinyPony It's the same action for the animation, not for the meaning, the usefulness and the tactics choices a large number of objectives implies. For example, is it better a gen rush or to slow down the escape to prevent NOED with the due cleansing of all the totems? If a mate is hooked, is it better to rescue them immediately or to finish the gen (which saves the progresses, but can be damaged in the meantime) or the totem (which, if abandoned, must be fully cleansed again)?Not all parties begin before the matchmaking, with the SWF mode: sometimes, in the lobby, a small team sees a player who speaks the same language and invite them to join... How could the system be sure about solo players?
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@ModernFable When they will release the optimization patch, the environmental effects won't cause any issue.
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I love this idea! Players need detailed statistics to discover their strengths and weaknesses, analyze the efficiency of the various equipments, review their strategies and tactics, and improve more and more. The important thing is that each player has the full right to keep them private: the stats must be hidden by default, but everybody can decide to make them public.
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The new graphic engine is simply divine: what better way to exploit its immense potential than to introduce random environmental effects in the various maps? These could be limited to the portion of the map visible to each player, to avoid frame rate drops.
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@Incarnate Maybe in these two years the Devs have changed their mind about the suppression of perk tiers. If you think about it, it is not mandatory to use the perks or to fill all the slots: those who want an extreme challenge play without equipping anything, and, in this perspective, the perks of tier 1 or 2 can be a valid intermediate solution between the best equipment and the extreme challenge. The tiers contribute to the game longevity and playstyle variability, so I do not consider them bad: it is wrong to treat perks of different strength or tier in the same way, due to a rarity system unjustifiably reduced compared to normal...
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I understand the problem, but gen repairing is still boring: would you add extra time to fix each of them?I prefer secondary objectives, like this: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/27565/secondary-objective-shrines-to-the-entity
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@MyNamePete I can guarantee you that I am the only survivor trying to reach a locker when somebody is downed. XDAnd yes, Distortion needs more tokens...What about the other perks?
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Other contributions from stealthy playstyle lovers?
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Dogmatic sentences are not arguments: think whatever you want.purebalance said:@Entità said:
Dead by Daylight is an online game, so the interruption of the computer connection between guest and host therefore contrasts with the rules, like a football player who arbitrarily leaves the playing field during the game. Suicide on the hook is instead part of the game, like a football player who, despite having the ability to avoid a goal, does not intervene. The reasons can be the most disparate, and cannot be judged: the penalty for those who play badly is defeat, the penalty for those who play incorrectly is the disciplinary sanction. Let's see some good reasons to commit suicide on the hook:
1) altruistic sacrifice for the companion who has found the hatch or who is likely to fall into an ambush;
2) awareness of the impossibility of being saved in time, and conscious renunciation of points for struggling;
3) surrender (you can claim correctness from your opponent, but not that they continue to play a game that they consider lost to humiliate them or to gain more points on their frustration: even in war the surrender is admitted, I do not see what absurd reason it should be excluded in an online game, whose main purpose is the enjoyment of individuals who have paid its purchase price for leisure time).I find it essentially tyrannical to impose on other players what moves to make within the rules, to use the threat of sanction to force them to play in a certain pre-established way: the players are not puppets, they have their own head and are free to play according to the priorities, methods and strategies that they, according to their unquestionable judgment, consider appropriate, within the rules: as long as struggling will require repeated pressure of an X, each player retains the freedom to decide whether to press it and to what extent to press it; when, in a hypothetical future, the struggling will be automatic, the player will have to take up the whole sacrificial process, from the beginning to the very end.
Bullshit it isn't. Killing yourself on the hook is 100% the same thing as walking off the field mid game. You can try your mental gymnastics all you want, but they are both rage quitting.
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@Master The game is not ten years old, but maybe you are right. The Devs know if it's possible or not: I only threw an idea.
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Dead by Daylight is an online game, so the interruption of the computer connection between guest and host therefore contrasts with the rules, like a football player who arbitrarily leaves the playing field during the game. Suicide on the hook is instead part of the game, like a football player who, despite having the ability to avoid a goal, does not intervene. The reasons can be the most disparate, and cannot be judged: the penalty for those who play badly is defeat, the penalty for those who play incorrectly is the disciplinary sanction. Let's see some good reasons to commit suicide on the hook:
1) altruistic sacrifice for the companion who has found the hatch or who is likely to fall into an ambush;
2) awareness of the impossibility of being saved in time, and conscious renunciation of points for struggling;
3) surrender (you can claim correctness from your opponent, but not that they continue to play a game that they consider lost to humiliate them or to gain more points on their frustration: even in war the surrender is admitted, I do not see what absurd reason it should be excluded in an online game, whose main purpose is the enjoyment of individuals who have paid its purchase price for leisure time).
I find it essentially tyrannical to impose on other players what moves to make within the rules, to use the threat of sanction to force them to play in a certain pre-established way: the players are not puppets, they have their own head and are free to play according to the priorities, methods and strategies that they, according to their unquestionable judgment, consider appropriate, within the rules: as long as struggling will require repeated pressure of an X, each player retains the freedom to decide whether to press it and to what extent to press it; when, in a hypothetical future, the struggling will be automatic, the player will have to take up the whole sacrificial process, from the beginning to the very end.
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@Master I'm not speaking about restoring the old graphic engine or other difficult things. I simply ask that the files stored in their servers are taken from dusty hard disks and made available to anyone who wants to enjoy them, without costs or additional work, but published as they are: copy and paste, nothing less, nothing more.
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@anarchy753 No, this perk won't forbid who runs it to rescue or heal other people: they cannot be healed by other survivors or do the same action with them. The reward for healing other people doesn't make the difference and I think who uses Sole Survivor will bring in game a good medkit.
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Where are the players looking for an obscure, frightening adventure, with a heartache, on the razor's edge, that really fear the killer and try in every way to disappear to their evil gaze? I'm not the only one to enjoy Dead by Daylight as if I were the protagonist of a horror movie, immersed in a dark atmosphere of torture and terrible deaths, right?
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I prefer a stealthy, fully immersive gameplay, without magic visions: I imagine to be the protagonist of a horror film and behave consequently: fear, tension, panic are my mates when I play Dead by Daylight.Orion said:@Entità said:
I think the question is generic: some do not like the Aura reading per se, others fear that the killer's Aura reading skills destroy the stealthy game, others still want to see the Auras of the allies and not the enemy's, others claim to see the killer's Aura without being seen by them. In short, everyone has their motivations. Which category of players are you asking?I'm asking for the opinion of players who simultaneously claim that aura reading is powerful and don't use aura reading perks themselves.
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@SnakeSound222 You don't get the point. The perks and add-ons I listed are not a problem per se: their interaction with Distortion is problematic, or in the sense that the killer's Aura reading abilities greatly outweigh the defensive capabilities of four combined Distortion or in the sense that the killer can destroy the tokens of Distortion at will: it is fine that Freddy sees the Aura of the sleeping people or that the Doctor sees the Aura of those who go crazy or that Deerstalker sees the Aura of the dying survivors, but it is not good that the tokens are destroyed in the course of a chase: leave at least the survivor the right to keep them for when they will be awakened, snapped out of it or healed, for a profitable use.
Your irony about using your eyes is out of place: I just say that A Nurse's Calling with a stealthy killer (in Lery or in other closed places) and Bitter Murmur have no defense apart from Distortion, unlike BBQ.
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Any news?
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@DemonDaddy I hope the Devs will read and comment this thread.@Nickenzie What do you think about my OP?
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Yeah, you understood the very core of the balance: one killer perk should be about as powerful as four survivor perks.
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@Peanits Could you please clarify if my suspicions about the mechanics of Sole Survivor are founded? Apart from that, I leave it to your wise assessment if this thread should stay here or be moved to the bugs section.
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@DemonDaddy That a perk I have equipped is not necessary in a particular map or against a certain killer it's part of the game and I accept it willingly.
That a perk I have equipped is unsuitable for the purpose for which it was born, because it is too weak compared to the dozens of Aura reading skills of the killer, I find it essentially an error in the design of the perk itself. I rewrote the OP to better explain this aspect: read it again, please, and give me your feedback.
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@popoles It's not a question of memory: I'm talking about complete information, which allows everyone to identify the perk tiers, both for active hexes and buffs and debuffs generated by other players.
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Hardcore mode is good until it's not compulsory.Nevertheless, here I'm speaking of the classic mode, of the game that is today, not of the game that could be in the future.
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Why not? But as an alternative mode, not compulsory.
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@Incarnate Your suggestion is legitimate, but off-topic: open a thread about perk tiers suppression, then.I believe three things:1) balance tests are made on perks of tier 3, because they are definitive, while tiers 1 and 2 are temporary: they last until you get the best version of every perk, and then are immediately replaced;2) the Developers are busy with bug fixes, localization improvements, frame rate optimization and Christmas event, and I shouldn't charge them with big reforms, not today;3) until perk tiers will stand, a 5-level rarity system is better than a 3-level one, not for colors, but for a proper balance (I explained in the OP why).
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I think the question is generic: some do not like the Aura reading per se, others fear that the killer's Aura reading skills destroy the stealthy game, others still want to see the Auras of the allies and not the enemy's, others claim to see the killer's Aura without being seen by them. In short, everyone has their motivations. Which category of players are you asking?
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@Incarnate You want to reform radically the perk system; I want only to restore the proper classifications and colors, in order to guarantee that more powerful perks are rarer to find and more expensive to buy, aside the fact the five colors are beautiful per se.
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@Orion I'm just explaining why to see the killer's Aura is not a remedy to their Aura reading abilities, aside the fact that killer's and survivors' Aura reading skills trigger in different ways and moments, not at the same time (except Object of Obsession).
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Since the killer is faster than survivors, not being seen by the killer is more important than seeing them.
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I love stealthy and fully immersive gameplay and I opened a thread about Distortion and its weakness: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/32740/distortion-is-unreasonably-too-weak/But BBQ is the last of my problems, there are a lot of ways to counter it even without Distortion. About lockers, I have played a hundred games since the new patch was released and I haven't seen people running to hide inside lockers. In theory it could be a BBQ nerf, but in practice? Most people keep ignoring lockers like they did before, that's my humble experience. Have you noticed a real change?@Milo Yes, the locker shields completely the Aura of the survivor inside.
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@Raptorrotas Camping is a legitimate strategy, like looping.
@SnakeSound222 I rewrote the opening post, so you and not only you won't pretend anymore BBQ is the only problem: it's the last of a long list, indeed.
