Abyast1
Abyast1
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@Dipper said:
I am so annoyed when I get into a match and it's the same killer like 5 times in a row. As Killers cannot change their character in the lobby anyway, would be cool to select a killer you really don't want to face, so you don't get into the lobby where that killer is, for a match. Could be token based, when you face a killer, you earn a token for that killer. The last 5 killers get logged. If you have 3 tokens you can block that killer and join a lobby that doesn't have that killer.
I just had 4 slingers in a row and I am just completely demotivated but I also can't just DC the match. And every time that happens, facing the same killer over and over, I wonder why we can't "ban" certain killers for the next match.
If a killer joins afterwards, you could just block banned lobbies for them, so they only join a lobby where he isn't banned by either survivor. In the end that wouldn't even be visible to the players, they would just normally join lobbies as alwaysKiller times are high, this would just make them higher, especially when a new killer comes out.
This wouldn't affect survivors, because theres currently and abundance of killers, but unless it puts you into like a lower priority queue I wouldn't be ok with this, the killers shouldnt have to wait longer cuz they picked a killer you didn't want to play against.
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@ba_tetsuo said:
I find SF enduring bamboozle legion with iri pin and poison hilarious. Watching them fumble around being unable to run after a frenzy+poison is choice. The table only heals mending, they stay injured afterwards
I play forced penance in the event, the broken's strong enough to stop them repeatedly resetting and bodyblocking. I've also (never thought id say this) been enjoying ghoul in this event as the ability to dash around and get a free hit on anyone is pretty helpful. and as you said the deep wound stops instaheals via table setting. It allows me to play a bit more chill when im against causal survivors, and the more bully esq survivors i can play sweaty.
I mean forced penance does nothing against casual because theyre unlikely to bodyblock, point and case. The rest of my build is usually bbq, discordance and i switch between pain res and PGTW. Definitely a stronger build, but not optimum and still allows me to slow it down if needs.
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@cammoking123 said:
That poison isn't random like survivor abilities and it's the strongest ability out of those mentioned. It's like a stronger forced hesitation.
If survivors just got a random ability id agree, however they get to heal a health state, get the buff from eating the cakes whilst also getting a huge buff for setting the table that lasts 60s.
All this whilst the poison gets neutralised after an m1/loss of health state, and you have to make a direct hit for it to apply (its a pretty small hitbox).
Certainly not as strong as extra pallets/infinite sprint burst or invisibility/invincibility and healing a health state
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@slurrrrpppp said:
summary if you cba to read:
his add ons are too strong for a killer that is easy to learn and is stupidly strong overall, in the hands of a half decent killer that has put over 50+ hours in him you could get easy 4ks with a build of solid perks so using a meta build would just secure wins. his spear should have some sort of set back or cooldown, I was looping in the same spot and he was able to pick up 5 spears no cooldown.
Main post in detail of specific issues I have with Jason:
The main issues i’ve had with jason are his add ons being way too much, mainly the exhaustion add on when he uses omni presence imo shouldn’t be 13 seconds should be 5 max considering he gets haste when he comes out of power, also the gen regression and skill check add on is way too much hopefully shouldn’t need to explaining but being being able to regress gens by 5% and have them keep regressing is insane for only having to be near them while moving at double speed, then if a survivor messes up a small skill check near him it regress by 10% is too much gen regression for just an add on is crazy. His spear also has no cooldown or punishment because it is so easily accessible, I had a jason on a loop and he went back to the same hook or spear spawn five times in one chase so, if there is at least some sort of cooldown or fatigue for using it I think that will be better than having some no skill player just chucking spears every 2 seconds and grabbing another.
Add on / spear alternatives:
-for the gen and skill check add on, have it so a gen with no survivor on it but has progress loses no progress when he walks near it but starts regressing, as for the failed skilled check should only regress by 5%.
-the exhaustion add on like I mentioned should be the same as mind breaker so only lasts 5 secs max when he comes out of omni presence.
-with the spear maybe have a timer for when he can get another, when he grabs them off hooks have the hooks not respawn when he picks up a survivor and the hook respawn timer be longer so it punishes him for picking it up.
thanks for reading would love to hear rework ideas or peoples thoughts on Jason.
Ill go point by point on this, so hang with me. I will preface this by saying Jason does need some nerfs, but it seems your focus are on the wrong parts of his kit.
"His addon's are too strong for a killer that is easy to learn"- he has 1 insane add-on (deputy's badge) and a couple ok addon-s, most his addon's suck.
"that has put 50+ hours into him can easily get 4ks with a build of solid perks"- this is the same for most A tier killers, this isn't jason exclusive.
"his spear should have some sort of setback or cooldown"- it does, it has a animation before firing, has a small hitbox, and needs to be reloaded constantly.
" I was looping in the same spot and he was able to pick up 5 spears no cooldown."- even his scrap heaps require him to go into power, once he goes into power, start making your way to a different loop, look at where he spawns and go between the loops every time he uses power.
"Mainly the exhaustion add-on"- ngl, exhaustion perks are insanely strong which is why they mass produce anti-exhaustion add-on's (especially sprint burst/ lithe) and allow you a huge boost at the start/ mid chase. You can still use them, just not when he appears. I've managed exhaustion mid chase to allow me to lithe away. Its 100% possible, especially against current jason's. could see a nerf down to like 8s, but even still I'd advocate nerfs in other places.
"also the gen regression and skill check add on is way too much hopefully shouldn’t need to explaining but being being able to regress gens by 5% and have them keep regressing is insane for only having to be near them while moving at double speed" deputy's badge and one other add on is mentioned here, the skill check isn't difficult to hit at all. its not even a DS skillcheck, its easy as anything. Deputy's badge does need touching up/reworking.
"His spear also has no cooldown or punishment because it is so easily accessible, I had a jason on a loop and he went back to the same hook or spear spawn five times in one chase so, if there is at least some sort of cooldown or fatigue for using it I think that will be better than having some no skill player just chucking spears every 2 seconds and grabbing another." - this i agree with, The nerfs i advocate for are reduced scrap piles, increased power cd, and decreased haste duration when popping out of power. Two of these would target your issue here, and i believe the 3 nerfs would make punishing his misses easier, so these are the nerfs i advocate for more-so than add-on nerfs.
"the exhaustion add on like I mentioned should be the same as mind breaker so only lasts 5 secs max when he comes out of omni presence"- i misread what you said earlier apparently, this is a bad idea. Exhaustion works so you have to manage it mid chase, making it so you only can't use exhaustion perks for 5s would make it useless because 5s later you have sprint burst/lithe and ergo, it does nothing. 8s worth of exhaustion would be balanced for the add-on, so you still have to manage it mid chase but if you do you can use your exhaustion perks.
"with the spear maybe have a timer for when he can get another, when he grabs them off hooks have the hooks not respawn when he picks up a survivor and the hook respawn timer be longer so it punishes him for picking it up."- he al;ready has this, except it resets when using his power. If it didn't, hed need more scrap piles to make his power useable. His power is punishing, and difficult to hit, but he can reload a bit too often right now. If we punish him even further using it (so hooks don't respawn) he just cant use it and becomes an m1 killer with no ability. This is over the top for nerfs.
TL:DR it seems we can agree he needs a nerf, but whilst you have chosen to butcher his entire kit, I would advise for more targetted nerfs.
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@justadreampallet said:
The event is, for kinder words, a bit unfun and bound to cause tension so I wanted to ask something nice
When you main a killer you main them cause of powers first and character second
But with survivor its purely personal preference
So what made you fall in love with your Main
Is it their lore, are they funny, do you vibe with them, or any other reason you decided to find your favorite in the Fog ♡
I've gone between a couple mains.
Was a true blendette between 2018-2019, fell in love with Yui when she came out, and was between her and zarina for a while. Then leon came out, and mained him.
Right now, i go between leon, rick grimes and michonne grimes. All of my mains hold a special place in my heart tho
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092697#Comment_4092697
Oh brother. And here I thought I was saving you time by not compiling things and you insult me. 😵
I'm merely pointing out you have contributed nothing to the discussion you have repeatedly replied to, and repeatedly point out things that have nothing to do with the conversation, which the nicest interpretation of that is that you cannot understand what I'm saying rather than you being intentionally obtuse and derailing the point for your own gain. This is the most generous interpretation of what your doing, if you'd rather me label you as being a bad faith actor, disingenuous or a troll I can do that, but I took it as a misunderstanding that you have failed to understand the point of the conversation multiple times despite my repeated shift back to it.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093337#Comment_4093337
exactly, plus the side objective can act like a bit of slowdown for gens, if they are doing the plates they arent on gens.
Not to mention if you poison the tables you mess everything up for them, regardless of how annoying it is.
Quick queues too lolYeah, its a bit of slowdown for gens, but they get a huge buff, its a double edged blade.
It does mean if your playing a killer who can't pressure easily, your gonna struggle.
But gotta love quick queues tho
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@Yamalive said:
The only thing that is undeniable is that killer players are super fast in making kneejerk reactions and showing their double standards. It would have been a really good thing if you had played some games before writing this post. Cause then you would see that its not as bad as you make it look like.
I agree and disagree with this post:
Its not as bad as some people make it out to be, if you play to win. If you bring in a strong build/killer you can survive most of what the event throws your way due to the time survivors have to put in to get these buffs. Most games I play killer, I struggle a lot more because the random buffs but can play well, and the poison in chase is nice. However, There is relatively nothing new about the game for killers, and it is essentially an "allow the survivors to play with their new toys that make your game harder" event. I don't hate it, especially since its brought in more casual players so the pool is a lot less sweaty. But its still harder and basically the same game for killers, that much is true.
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@TropesDaMan said:
what made you make the……
interesting choice to join DBD
trying to distract people from being so angry about the cake rate
First time i joined, in 2018, was because it was another game i could play with my brother and other friends. I played mostly survivor, with a tiny bit of killer (i mained huntress/hag when i first started playing killer) and over the years have shifted more to a 50-50 playstyle. The community weren't that welcoming, but my friends and I ignored chat and just had fun where we could playing random builds or all running the same build as a laugh.
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@KaaraUwU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093266#Comment_4093266
Everyone else agrees he's high B Tier, you're literally the only person who's said otherwise, and no, Springtrap's axe is way easier and more generous
Yeah he has good map traversal, but so does just about every other killer these days, Springtrap has immediate access to every generator and hes' still B Tier because Survivors can stomp him, just like Survivors can easy stomp Jason
You're pretty dumb so I see I probably can't change your mind
"everyone else agrees he's high B tier"- no they don't. People are calling him more oppressive than ghoul, some are saying he's S tier, i disagree because the bar for S tier is hillbilly and nurse, but He's certainly strong.
"Springtrap's axe is way easier and more generous" - Its more generous, sure, but easier? its slower, and has a limited range. It is definitionally weaker than Jason's.
"Yeah he has good map traversal, but so does just about every other killer these days, Springtrap has immediate access to every generator and hes' still B Tier because Survivors can stomp him, just like Survivors can easy stomp Jason"- theres so much wrong with this statement, where do I begin. Springtrap doesn't have immediate access to every generaton, he has 8 doors he can move between. Jason can shift from wherever to anywhere theres a pallet, window or breakable door (basically anywhere, including right next to a gen). On top of this "so does about every other killer these days"- and most the recent killers have either been A tier or High B tier. Krasue is the one exception (because their head form is beyond useless), but every other recent killer given map traversal is High B or A. Ghoul, Dark lord, Houndmaster, Lich, xenomorph. Its called power creep, and Jason is a really good example of it.
"You're pretty dumb so i see i probably can't change your mind"- you have refused to address the facts, completely ignored almost all of my comments, and then reduced your comments to ad-homonyms. You obviously don't have the experience, or faculty, to be a part of this conversation, and should probably stay out of posts talking about balancing before you make yourself look like a fool.
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@KaaraUwU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093165#Comment_4093165
If you attempt to tunnel by appearing at an unhook, you will appear WAY slower than usual, and justifying bad add-ons because a killer isn't D Tier is the most braindead ######### I've ever seen
He is not A tier lil bro, the lack of many good add-ons combined with how hard it is to tunnel, and how incredibly hard it can be to hit the spear makes him way more skill based than most other killers, and knowing when and where to appear to cut off a survivor also increases his skill ceiling
"if you attempt to tunnel be appearing at an unhook, you will appear way slower than usual"- yep, and you can still tunnel really easy due to the killer instinct helping you path towards them.
"justifying bad add-ons because a killer isn't d tier is the most braindead take I've ever seen"- im not justifying it because he isn't d tier, theres C and B tier killers who need add on adjustment, and A/S tiers who need power shifting from their power to some of their add-ons.
"He is not A tier lil bro, the lack of many good add-ons combined with how hard it is to tunnel, and how incredibly hard it can be to hit the spear makes him way more skill based than most other killers, and knowing when and where to appear to cut off a survivor also increases his skill ceiling"-
ok kiddo, lets go through some of things you've said here.
"How hard it is to tunnel"- you don't need to tunnel with him is the issue, he can apply pressure quickly and easily, and if your finding it hard to commit to a chase run thanat and force them to stop and heal.
"how incredibly hard it can be to hit the spear"- I agree its harder than huntress, but its the same as deathslinger and easier than springtrap. Its the same size as deathslinger but faster, and you don't need to reel them in and get the m1. Springtraps is big but slow and doesn't go far at all.
"way more skill based than most other killers"- I'd say his skill expression caps out pretty low given how much info and traversal is given in his power, plus hes essentially 4.6 m/s most the time, and has a low power cd so its hard to punish.
"knowing when and where to appear to cut off a survivor also increases his skill ceiling"- yeah, but not by as much as you think it does apparently. Also skill ceiling isn't taken into account when considering scalings. Otherwise nurse would never be S tier, since you believe its bringing back springtrap by a whole tier (which jason is much less affected by mindgames/decision making than nurse btw).
You've dodged around actually addressing the fact he has good map traversal, is 4.6 m/s, has info in his power that can softlock a game and has ample opportunity to tp again, reload and keep track of a survivor, which puts him well above every other ranged killer. And deathslinger is considered B tier, springtrap jumps between B and A depending on the patch and huntress is a strong B tier killer. At minimum hes low A tier, given his dependancy on rng based on where scrap piles spawn for his chases, but he has high snowball potential, can pressure each survivor with his shift (paired with ruin it gets survivors to stop doing gens and buys you a lot more time), and also can push survivors away from certain loops.
But keep dancing around the facts, doesn't make your point any more valid
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092097#Comment_4092097
For a start i know his spears are dodgeable, I have a reasonably good dodge rate aginst them. My point is that on a hit they set up double taps so easily. Because short chases are bad for the game.
And shot for shot they are definitely the best single ranged attack in the game. Idk how you can say a jason spear is harder to hit that a huntress hatchet. The hatchets are slower, have a way more pronounced arc. I myself am pretty bad with huntress's hatchets, but in the few games I've played with jason his spears are laughably easy to hit.
Plus you say you question whether I even play these killers when you don't seem to know the stats involved. All 3 of the examples huntress, slinger and nemesis have a move slowdown after their ranged attacks. I even quoted the huntress 2 secs of move speed drop as a throw recovery but you glossed over that or didn't read it since apparently her only ranged slowdown is reloading. Slinger has a lengthy reload with reduced movement speed plus the time for missed shot to reel back in and nemi has to reel in the tentacle also with a move slowdown.
Incidentally I play slinger and nemesis quite a bit. Huntress not so much because I don't like her gameplay but I have played her enough to be familair with her mechanics.
The whole point of these post shot slowdowns is to give survivors a chance to make a bit of distance since ranged killers don't need to M1 them so more distance is needed to make dodging possible. Jason doesn't have that, and since his spear pickup is intantaneous and there are scrap piles/hooks all over the place easy to pick up without detouring much in chase. So yeah his ranged attack is objectively stronger than the other projectile based killers. Plus he has omnipresent evil too. Huntress and slinger rely entirely on their ranged attack with no other traversal or chase abilities.
"they set up double taps so easily" if by double taps you mean ranged attack and then a melee possibly 10-12s later, sure. you should be able to make distance by just holding w if you can't reach a tile from the injury they give.
"shot for shot they are the best single ranged attack in the game" followed by "idk how you can say a jason spear is harder to hit then huntress hatchet"- agree and disagree. Huntresses are pretty fast when charged half way, no matter fully charged. And they have a bigger hitbox, so are easier to clip a survivor. With jason's spear/spike, you have to be precise when throwing it, not so much with a hatchet. Ive yet to see jason orbitals like huntress orbitals.
"in the few games ive played with jason his spears are laughably easy to hit"- and laughably easy to dodge. One well timed crouch/ sidestep and he misses. This is likely because your just trying jason so your mmr on him is rock bottom. Wait till you've played 40+ games as him, and go against people who know how to dodge his shots.
"Plus you say you question whether I even play these killers when you don't seem to know the stats involved. All 3 of the examples huntress, slinger and nemesis have a move slowdown after their ranged attacks. I even quoted the huntress 2 secs of move speed drop as a throw recovery but you glossed over that or didn't read it since apparently her only ranged slowdown is reloading. "- apologies, i forget she gets slowed to 3.74 m/s for 2 seconds. I genuinely hadn't noticed that, and have just under 100 hours on her. Genuinely mb.
"Slinger has a lengthy reload with reduced movement speed plus the time for missed shot to reel back in and nemi has to reel in the tentacle also with a move slowdown."- nemi has a slowdown, but as i said his ranged attack can break pallets making it more than just a ranged attack. And deathslinger has a reload slowdown (which is a reload slowdown, not after his shot) but thats besides the point i guess.
I play huntress and deathslinger a lot, not alot of nemisis to the point i had to google his power and if it could hit multiple survivors ect.
I believe huntresses is because she has 7 on her at once, springtraps can be reloaded whenever he wants rather than at specific locations. Jason has to move out of chase to get a reload, and doesn't have infinite of them unless he uses power.
"spear pickup is instantaneous and there are scrap piles/hooks all over"- i agree and disagree. Its very much rng. Some times scrap piles/hooks are in the perfect place, and sometimes rng ######### me over and i don't have one anywhere near chase to the point id have to leave and re-engage chase to be able to reload.
"his ranged attack is objectively stronger than other projectile based killers)- as said, huntress has 7 of them, deathslinger and springtrap can reload wherever and nemisis' is part of him and break pallets. They all have different pros and cons, to say one of them is objectively stronger i have to disagree. I personally think huntress being able to hold 7 is a lot more forgiving then jason's one and hope theres a hook nearby.
"plus he has omnipresent evil too. Huntress and slinger rely on their ranged attack with no other traversal or chase abilities"- i agree, the issue with jason is he has a lot of things, not one of them being strong.
I genuinely dont think we're gonna agree on who's ranged attack when taken as a whole is stronger, but we both agree he needs a nerf. The nerfs i originally suggested where lower haste time, reduce scrap heaps and increase power/tp cd.
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@KaaraUwU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092689#Comment_4092689
He definitely isn't A Tier, his Spike is incredibly skill reliant, survivors can easily stealth his power so he's one of the hardest killers to tunnel on, not to mention he reverts to 4.4 m/s when downing a survivor and all of his add-ons are terrible except Dirty Money, Deputy Badge, Sauna Rock, and Noisemaker
He is most definitely close to a Springtrap sidegrade
"his spike is incredibly skill reliant"- same as deathslingers.
"Survivors can easily stealth his power"- so you hardlock people out of the game
"one of the hardest killers to tunnel on"- yes and no, you can just tp back at unhook and tunnel that way.
"he reverts back to 4.4 m/s when downing a survivor"- but can be 4.6 when it matters (in chase) cuz when out of chase he can just use power and zoom around. and get free info or softlock the game.
"all his add-on's are terrible except…….."i actually agree with this, his add-ons on large are pretty terrible, but he doesnt need good addons given how overloaded his kit is.
He also has, insane mobility that no other ranged killer has, haste to push him up to 4.6 almost permanently since his powers on a lower cd then the haste, he can reload pretty easily aswell as it stands.
Hes definitely A tier, and the attempt to downgrade him is ridiculous.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092800#Comment_4092800
I think a lot of this is very rng and specific game state dependent. If you’re dead on hook or injured for example obviously you don’t want to be found. If the gen you’re at is out in the open and the only pallet spawn is likely the one he will be teleporting to, you don’t want to be found. If you’re one of the last 2 survivors or and he’s slugging for the 4k, you don’t want to be found. If you’ve finally found one of his hex totems but you don’t want him to spawn on you while you’re cleansing it, then you don’t want to be found. If he’s running Friends till the end and you’re exposed, you don’t want to be found. There’s many instances where you’re better off not actually playing the game.
If you hear a chainsaw billy approaching because of terror radius, you can position yourself. There isn’t a terror radius for Jason in that way, no way to know if he’s coming towards you or not. There are no visual or audio cues, no directional cues. It’s very much guaranteed that if he sees you he’s coming for you, so you have make sure that you’re in a good position for him to show up, and that it makes sense if you were the next one to be hooked.
Im not saying there’s no counter play, there is. But that counterplay is not interactive. I imagine everyone, no matter if they love Jason or hate Jason, can understand the general frustration of this kind of counter play.Agree with this partially.
"if your dead on hook or injured, don't want to be found"- 75% of the time yes, if someone else is on deathhook and nobody is taking aggro tho, you might have to.
"if the gen you're at is out in the open and the only pallet spawn is likely the one he will be teleporting to, you don't want to be found"- This one less so, you can easily take a hit to reach whatever pallet/loop you might need and chain some tiles then, theres very few instances where deadzones are that close together and if you do loop deadzone into deadzone thats probably something you shouldve picked up before the chase.
"If you’re one of the last 2 survivors or and he’s slugging for the 4k, you don’t want to be found. If you’ve finally found one of his hex totems but you don’t want him to spawn on you while you’re cleansing it, then you don’t want to be found."- first one sure, second one not so much. If he's able to pressure you off totems teammates can be doing gens. 90% of the time i've been against the hex build i ignore it and its fine. Focus gens, if he has devour try and get gens out the way before dh pops, because he has 0 other perks you should be fine.
"If you hear a chainsaw billy approaching because of terror radius, you can position yourself. There isn’t a terror radius for Jason in that way, no way to know if he’s coming towards you or not. There are no visual or audio cues, no directional cues. It’s very much guaranteed that if he sees you he’s coming for you, so you have make sure that you’re in a good position for him to show up, and that it makes sense if you were the next one to be hooked."- The issue with this statement is silent bell wraith exists, and you should (if you're seasoned at dbd) be able to hand threats just appearing and being a threat. Especially when jason spawns at pre-existing positions that you can keep an eye on. His playstyle isn't that difficult to play vs.
"the counterplay is not interactive"- quite the opposite tho, as ive said a lot of his counterplay depends on taking aggro and splitting hooks which is exceptionally easy vs him. The issue is survivors don't want to use the counterplay, they just want to complain (as has been for the past week) about how there's little counterplay.
And yes he is strong, I've advocated in my other posts for a few minor nerfs such as increased tp cd, reduced haste duration and less scrap piles so missing is punished. But he has counterplay, it is interactive, and it shouldn't be as frustrating as it is. The issue is soloqueue makes him a ######### to play against, but id also be fine with prox chat or even just full team vc all game, make everyone swf, then buff a bunch of the killer roster to match.
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@MorelClaudette said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092800#Comment_4092800
The comparison is not ideal.
The better comparison would be a Spirit whose phasewalk is indefinitely as well. So she just stays in phasewalk, zooms around the map and only jumps "into reality" when she definitely can hit or grab you.
You can definitely question the particular design choice.
Your comparison there is also not ideal, cuz spirit can hit you out of phasewalk, jason can't.
The better comparison is wraith with silent bell and the gen aura one, you hide and he can't find you as soon as your on a gen he knows, and can appear almost instantly out of sight.
In both occassions, you should do a gen, keep an eye out for where they could pop up, and run accordingly as soon as theyre visible.
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@angel_pellegrino said:
And I say this because the counter to Jason, slowly crouch walking around the map, has got to be some of the most game dragging out mindless stuff since mending simulator legion. It's okay every once in a while, for a short duration, but when you have everybody in the match doing it, and Jason just holds his power until somebody reveals himself, the game gets boring as hell. Every use of power becomes a gurantee chase. Especially the ones who hook then use their power to teleport right back to the hook upon unhook, hook again, teleport right back, repeat.
Then there's the situation of egc where Jason closes the hatch first, because good luck finding the hatch crouch walking around the map. Because Jason can hold his power forever and you're 100% not getting out that gate. What are you gonna do, crouch walk all the way to a chest and then crouch walk all the way to where ever the hatch is? It's just ggs at that point.
I will say this for like the 5th time, hard counters should not be in the game.
You don't want them because then killers need to be balanced around the possibility you run the hard counter, which isnt fun in the slightest.
Killers with hard counters are generally low tier and people accept they need buffs (Trapper and hag as two examples).
"jason hold's power until someone reveals himself"- Thats because its a soft counter that allows one of the healthy teammates to take chase rather than a hard counter that just stops him getting info, onto the next chase. The power allows you to choose who takes chase, thats already a pretty big upside (like the cenobite's box for example).
"especially the one's who use their power to teleport right back to the hook upon unhook"- usually, when im forced to do that, its because likeminded survivors such as yourself refuse to take chase, and so the only place i have info at that point in time is right by the hook. I even run bbq and discordance to try and find somewhere else to go after hook, but the few times i return to hook this is all i hear. TAKE AGGRO, is my response to this.
"Then there's the situation of egc where Jason closes the hatch first, because good luck finding the hatch crouch walking around the map. Because Jason can hold his power forever and you're 100% not getting out that gate. What are you gonna do, crouch walk all the way to a chest and then crouch walk all the way to where ever the hatch is? It's just ggs at that point."- this is a big way of saying that you don't understand how to play his end game. dw, i dont blame you, hes knew. As with every other time he uses his power, the most advantageous thing here is to take chase. He gets more value if you just crouch walk along the place and he finds hatch, which makes end game unbearable for you, so run as soon as hatch spawns and keep running, check as much of the map as possible and if he spawns on you, try and path forward and make as much distance and check as much of the map as possible. This has worked 2/6 times for me ive been in hatch offs against him, 2 times he ignored me and continued searching for hatch, 1 time he chased me and killed me before i found hatch, 1 time i found hatch before he chased.
But even if he ignores you, running is still the optimum call in end game as it increases your chances of finding hatch before him.
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@zonkednb said:
I'm talking no macro, limited micro, just press buttons, hear sounds and leave satisfied.
Bonus points for not mentioning Ghoul.Killers: wraith/deathslinger/jason
Builds: Wraith: bamboozle, thanat, sloppy, corrupt
Deathslinger: forced penance, bamboozle, discordance, PGTW.
Jason: BBQ, Bamboozle/DH, PGTW/RUIN, discordance
All 3 of these i can play pretty chill and just have fun whilst not sweating.
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@Drunkenmunky said:
There's already very little survivor can do against this op boring trash.
Adding hex: ruin and Thrill of the hunt is a serious lack of trying at all.
I can't wait until this boring garbage gets nerfed into the ground.
Making builds specifically against a singular killer takes all agency away from survivors.
It's not even worth playing right now.
Unless you play a different killer as everyone is building against Jason thus they are suddenly ill equiped against other killers.
Other killers are doing really well now.
As everyone is just trying to counter this OP garbage.
The fact he has no animation, stop, reload is so game breaking it's sad.
It's a losing strategy for a short term cash grab.Honestly, a lot of these builds are useless with pentimento tbh. Im starting to see more survivors bring maps (which is my suggested counterplay to these hex builds) and so if they get the hexes out in 1 minute, the killer becomes hexless and has lost 3 perks, the issue is then that they can use pentimento and get even more value, whenever they want, and that can slow the game down even more.
Personally don't run this build as jason, i much prefer discordance, bbq, Devour, PGTW somtimes swapping devour for bamboozle.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092488#Comment_4092488
No, because it has nothing to do with the conversation. If we have a 1k killstreak Blight on video, if we have stats that show that Survivors by design lose more often than not, why would anyone have any reason to go "yeah, well Survivors do pretty well in an incredibly restrictive closed competition"?
The stats take the average survivor vs the average killer, not the best of both.
If your point is on average killer is stronger than all types of survivor, sure I'd agree considering 60% of the playerbase is soloqueue, and comp swf is like 1-10% at best.
But thats not what you were responding to, and is an entirely seperate conversation. You've derailed it from "best survivors vs best killers" to the average, and have made our past 3/4 comments useless because you couldn't comprehend basic english.
And if, i hope your not but it sounds like it, your trying to say "stats say survivors lose more often by stats so survivor is weaker", stats also say nurse is weak so i guess she needs a tonne of buffs. Oh wait no, because one stat taken in a vacuum doesn't help us come to any reasonable decisions.
TLDR: The conversations you responded to, and I reiterated repeatedly, were talking about the best in each roles, not the average, and you have failed to contribute anything to that matter and only now are pivoting to an entirely different and not widely debated topic to make it seem like your comments were worthwhile. Either you didn't read anything said and were responding on autopilot, because your poor feelings were hurt, or you've shifted the goalpost from the original conversation to one nobody was talking about. Almost everyone says soloqueue is weaker than killer, and that takes up 54%-58% according to their most recent stats, so this will largely shift the stats. However, that does not mean the strongest survivors are weaker than the strongest killer.
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@KaaraUwU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092620#Comment_4092620
Jason does not have an overloaded kit, he is just the path that killers are headed and need to head to keep up with the meta while not being super insanely busted
He's basically a sidegraded and slightly stronger Springtrap, but Springtrap should be 4.6 m/s without any nerfs, both Springtrap nor Jason are not any higher than the pinnacle of B Tier
B Tier killers do NOT need any nerfs
"sidegraded springtrap" is wild considering he has info, insane mobility and the same ranged attack.
Hes easily A tier, Ive seen people argue S tier, but i believe he falls short of it considering Nurse and hillbilly are the prime examples of S tier killers.
Hes stronger than all B tier killers you could mention.
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@KaaraUwU said:
Killers such as Huntress, Deathslinger, Trickster should permanently be 4.6 m/s because as we currently see with Jason, it's not OP to be 115% with a Ranged Projectile, and Trickster was 115% in the past but it was really dumb to nerf him back to 115%
It wouldn't be op for any of them to be permanently 115% as the current meta is just to hold W and rush generators, and 110% killers like the ones mentioned have a lot of trouble with survivors pre-running, holding W, and even just the killer generally patrolling the map takes too long, ranged killers already get slowed down to 3 M/S while winding up and beginning their ranged attack so why not just make them 115%/4.6 m/s
I know survivors will whine and complain but honestly there's nothing wrong with a ranged killer being 4.6 m/s, Jason isn't busted at all and he's 4.6 m/s for 25s, but imo he should be 4.6 m/s permanently, all ranged killers should be, the only killers that should be slow outside of their power are Blight and Nurse because of their power
Even Springtrap should permanently be 115%, it's really unfortunate they just wanted to make him a gimmick killer with his speed being different without the axe
Jason's overloaded kit is an issue, but i agree outside of jason being permanently 4.6. he's the only one out of those examples that couldn't use the buff.
Deathslinger,huntress and trickster would all benefit from that buff, and id personally be happy with it seeing as they have no other map traversal. I think springtrap can stay 4.4 m/s unless we get some other nerfs in the near future. But yeah for the most part i agree.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092500#Comment_4092500
https://stats.deadbydaylight.com
Official stats website, all stats from your previous matches will be here after a certain year (can't recall which one). However do note that any abandon on the survivor side treats the match basically the same as you DCing (it completely ignores that the match occurred) and therefore inflates your escape rate. If you abandon on killer it treats the match as if all survivors still alive at the time you abandoned escaped, so even a four slug where you obviously won is treated as the survivors escaping if they abandon and then you abandon from all remaining survivors being bots. Official stats are claimed to not be counted this way but no specificity on exactly how they differ.
Ive never abandoned a game so dw about that, thanks a tonne
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092434#Comment_4092434
My Last 30 Day escape rate is 45.59% and thats with even trying some saves I should had not tried. All are solo queue matches and I play random builds too so I am not stacking the deck for my benefit. So have to admit everytime someone complains of soloq being impossible or similar I just roll my eyes.
When people say soloqueue is impossible i agree to an extent:
If your playing well, you remove one variable from the 4 survivors playing badly. Statistically, you should have at least 1 other decent teammate who can loop ect, so around 40-50% escape rate sounds about right.
It is however more down to chance, and when you only play on weekends ect, you get a larger pool of rando's who play extremely casually so your more likely to have bad players ect.
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@YaBoi0215 said:
I have recently come to the conclusion that playing soloq survivor is infinitely harder than Killer ever could be. I want to say that every 2/10 matches I play soloq they're enjoyable and skillful. The rest are just the most braindead people on my team. Soloq is filled with people who do not play for the team, run meme builds, run builds with playstyles that they are incapable of pulling of, or are just outright bad at the game. I honestly don't know what can be done to fix this issue. I mean 99% of people I play with don't even look at each others perks when all it takes is a button press at the start of the match or just do it on a gen. Now, I will say that killer is far more stressful than soloq survivor is. I don't ever find myself being as pressed to try my absolute hardest though unless I am playing soloq survivor. I think the one thing that can possibly change this would be a ranked mode but the issue comes down to how to implement a ranked mode with a proper wincon for both sides that isn't what it is now. Because clearly our current MMR setup is just incapable of putting you with proper teammates.
I agree, in the sense that its harder for you to escape and killer's should on average have a Much easier time. Its a lot less stressful for soloqueue survivor because your not always IT, and so can spend downtime, whereas killer feels like you have to feel much more constantly on it.
However, the amount of sway (i forgot the technical term) you have over the match is balanced by there being 4 of you against 1.
@100PercentBPMain said:
I play solo survivor to de stress from 4x Finesse abusing pre runners. The thing about solo q is the variance and not understanding your team roster but as a rule of thumb, if everybody on a team plays in good faith then I don't think its so bad. But people genuinely can have thousands of hours in dbd and never strive to improve or reflect on their gameplay, always use the same perks and strategies and never adapt etc. this makes losing as killer more bearable.
I get worked up and get misanthropic but that's because I actually try. For example, on the weekend I had a Vittorio getting tunneled out by Jason after somebody else got tunneled out on Lerys, a map infamous for being hard to coordinate. However, I like to pretend I'm a SWF so I like to roll Strength in Shadows+Bond. With perfect Discord accuracy, I kept taking hits for him and running back to the basement. I could only do this thanks to perks, but the tools are there if people want to try. I've also been the world's biggest Empathic Connection fan anybody who plays in my games can count on me.
This is why i love playing survivor as you wait, because ill play 1-2 games of survivor, match up for a killer game, play another game of survivor, then play some killer. Stops me tilting from either side too much tbh. One bad survivor/killer game wont automatically make me tilt out of my mind. I can destress in survivor the issues i have in a bad killer game, and if i enjoyed the killer game ill just queue killer again and play a survivor game inbetween. Really helps my mental.
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B36V9HPIXKLD/image.png
Usually my escape rate is around 40 percent, but the last 30 days I've been doing a lot better, maybe because I kind of thrive against ranged killers since i play them mostly.l
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C1KBUE9J4JVW/image.png
I do also play with friends in some sessions though, so it's a mix of both. Seems their balance is working as intended overall, my high escape rate probs comes from all the newer jasons since he just came out. Not to mention I've been really selfish recently and left if I felt I couldn't save solo.
p.s. I love vigil don't hate me, it's a great perk for helping randoms with debuffs <3 I've used it in most of my builds since it came out, even before the live balance changes, that will never change.What site/app is this, might use it to track my games and get some stats.
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@Wyndsor said:
I agree killers shouldn't complain about bully squads or tbagging.
It isn't personal. Just a game!
Agreed. Especially about bully squads. At the end of the day the only way they can bully you is if your worse, so play better/sweatier in the chance that you are against a bully squad.
And therefore, by same logic, survivors shouldnt complain about killers perks, slugging to death, jason, or any other facet of the game. After all, its just a game.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092089#Comment_4092089
What does that have to do with anything? Those are custom games with a tiny, curated group of players. Even if we were to take it into account, how often does it happen? More than 50%? What do the hook states look like?
"what does that have to do with anything"- these are the best of each roles somewhat balanced to allow for the games to actually go fourth. Both sides are nerfed so that the games are interesting to watch, some would argue one side more than others, but most well known tournaments (European pro league, Lawless trial and the invitationals) Are run with the best of the best past qualifiers.
"even if we were to take it into account, how often does it happen?more than 50%? what do hook states look like?"- how often do you go against top tier killers? If we're talking about the probability of these events occuring we shouldn't even be talking about top tier nurse/hillbilly since you'll see them once every blue moon. But we are, we are talking about the best of the best, and so we must talk tournaments since thats the best example of top tier killer vs top tier survivor.
Now then, the other question you asked there that actually had any merit, what do hook states/stats look like. You know what, ill compile the dbd league 2026 results for you so you can see what happens in each, hook states and all. If i go to the effort to do that, and it shows exactly what i was saying, would you then, finally, accept that the best killers lose to the best survivors?
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091351#Comment_4091351
I mean I'm pretty sure the streamers are the ones with the big egos. They make sweeping statements and generally only consider their own gameplay experience at their own skill bracket (usually super high)
And often they are completely wrong. Had a streamer who claimed to have over 9000 hours in game cuss me out after I played killer against them. He accused me of breaking the rules on 3 counts:
1. Tunneling: laughable because it's not against the rules even if I had been hard tunneling, which I wasn't.
2. Guarding a 3 gen. Also laughable not against the rules and i was guarding the last central gen on dead dawg because the pther 2 had popped and it had 70% on it.
3. Lighting pentimento twice. Astounds me that a 9000+ hour player didn't know that pentimento can light on multiple totems.
Streamers come out with all sorts of nonsense about balance and people just parrot it back.
So the statement i replied to,(which you've either not checked the comments linked to see the whole discussion or are intentionally being ignorant, either of which is fine ig) stated that these opinions arent generally accepted. I mentioned the dbd streamers who have the highest subscribers and have been a part of the community for way longer than the majority of people, and have devoted a large amount of time to debate the specifics and figurehead these opinions (which could make or break their community, given how shallow dbd players can be).
Most people would agree that these streamers are some of the most knowledgeable and well versed people in dbd, scott jund makes constant videos critiquing BHVR's choices and going in depth into his own thoughts, and has done so for years.
Otz, whilst more well known, definitely leans towards the more gaming side of things then the theory side, but even he has thousands of hours, has played in comp tournaments, and is incredible at the game.
Now then, your own criticism doesn't work in this case. We are talking about their skill bracket. We are discussing which role is the strongest. The skill bracket we are discussing is the optimum players from both sides. And whether the best SWF would beat the best killer. In this area, you should agree due to your last statement, they are the king in that court. And so you should respect their opinion there, in which that is what we are discussing.
As said, I personally, and a lot others it seems, believe that casual swf can contest vs killer making them if not the same, slightly weaker on the power scale. Even if i give that casual swf are weaker than a killer, that doesnt matter to this discussion. When talking about which side is stronger, we should look to the best of both.
You wouldn't ask bronze players/100 hours in dbd who the strongest killers are, because bubba will appear on that list whilst nurse won't due to not seeing them at the lowest of mmr.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091561#Comment_4091561
Well what is a healthy length for chase then? Starting a chase with a ranged hit then following up with an M1 down in 10-15 seconds is a very short chase. Plus he can just insta grab another spear.
And for the other ranged killers ranged attacks are all weaker than jason's spear and yet they come with recovery times even on a miss. Huntress hatchets are much harder to aim and hit than jason's spear and they don't push the survivor in a way the survivor has no control over she also has a 2 second period after the throw where she moves at 3.74 m/s. deathslinger isn't guarenteed to down with his ranged attack on an injured survivor, a bad hit to an injured surv is literally a self stun and even a straight miss his movement is slowed for a second or two as the spear reels back in. Nemi has a second or two of slowdown after he fires the whip and that needs the surv to be infected for it to work.
For jason to have an objectively more powerful ranged attack than any of these and have no recover time after throw or pick up animation is a but nuts.
I'm not asking for his spear to be gutted or even dragged down to the same level as huntress or slinger (they are both mid/low tier killers at best. I'm just saying he should have a huntress like slowdown applied for a couple seconds after the throw because currently he has absolutely none. I'd also like to see a slight animation to pick up spear midchase to allow survivors a bit more breathing space, bot a long one, maybe 0.3-5 secs since he nay detour for the pickup and would stand still as he grabs it.
Well what is a healthy length for chase then? Starting a chase with a ranged hit then following up with an M1 down in 10-15 seconds is a very short chase. Plus he can just insta grab another spear.
This screams you cant dodge ranged killers, as you can, and many have, dodged jason spears. If your losing in 10-15s against jason thats a definite skill issue, theres no way to put that politely. Most survivors should be able to last 30+s in a chase vs jason, using loops/pallets to hid/break LOS. If you cannot survive even that then you are the problem here.
And for the other ranged killers ranged attacks are all weaker than jason's spear and yet they come with recovery times even on a miss. Huntress hatchets are much harder to aim and hit than jason's spear and they don't push the survivor in a way the survivor has no control over she also has a 2 second period after the throw where she moves at 3.74 m/s. deathslinger isn't guarenteed to down with his ranged attack on an injured survivor, a bad hit to an injured surv is literally a self stun and even a straight miss his movement is slowed for a second or two as the spear reels back in. Nemi has a second or two of slowdown after he fires the whip and that needs the surv to be infected for it to work.
This is wrong on so many levels, your just factually wrong. Huntress hatchets are easier to aim and hit, they have a bigger hitbox and if you charge them for slightly longer than the time it takes for jason's animation you can go as fast as his. And she gets 7 of them basekit. The only thing you've said correct about this comparison is they don't push you away, which should be an advantage you use as a survivor knowing your going to get pushed.
Deathslinger isn't guaranteed his down, but has an easier reload and has no animation between aiming and shooting so its harder to predict, and the projectile shoots much faster.
classing nemi as the ranged killer you next want to talk about shows how disingenuous your being when theres other ranged killers you just haven't mentioned yet (springtrap for example) because it would make your point look ridiculous.
For jason to have an objectively more powerful ranged attack than any of these and have no recover time after throw or pick up animation is a but nuts.
Again, as i said before , your just objectively wrong on this. Also he does have an animation between picking up a spike and m1'ing that lasts 2s.
I'm not asking for his spear to be gutted or even dragged down to the same level as huntress or slinger (they are both mid/low tier killers at best. I'm just saying he should have a huntress like slowdown applied for a couple seconds after the throw because currently he has absolutely none. I'd also like to see a slight animation to pick up spear midchase to allow survivors a bit more breathing space, bot a long one, maybe 0.3-5 secs since he nay detour for the pickup and would stand still as he grabs it.
Again so much wrong this statement, lets pick it apart.
"huntress like slowdown"- you mean, the only slowdown she gets is when she reloads (like jason) or is holding her hatchet down, she has none during the animation of the hatchet and it stops her m1 for the same time.
"slight animation to pick up spear midchase"- there is one, where he cant m1, he already has this. unless your asking him to be stunlocked for this, which is stupid, considering unlike huntress he has 1 shot, unlike the 7 she reloads at a time.
This whole Comment has just highlighted how little you know about all of the killers you've talked about, to the point im questioning if you've actually played any of them. Now this could just be some disingenuous farce seeking to point score on the internet, which if it is ive divulged way tooo much of my time answering it. In the case this is a genuine question, i hope you even slightly reflect on all the statements you've made and how wrong they are.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091351#Comment_4091351
It's a tired narrative. It might've been true years ago, but nothing supports it anymore.
I mean have you watched comp tourney's? Comp SWF can easily get a 3e if they misread a couple mindgames.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091531#Comment_4091531
The distance after being hit is really all about luck. If you hit a solid object your flight distance is cut down AND you have to waste speed boost on circumventing whatever you hit before you can run directly away from him. The double tap is the most egregious example but you do very often end up in a situation when you can't make a pallet or vault quick enough. And i run windows so my situational awareness isn't at fault because I use a crutch perk to know where the nearest chase resource is at all time. When you fly the full distance you have a decent chance to extend chase it's very rare that you fly the full distance.
Tbh I'm all for him having no recovery on a missed shot. The projectile is fast but it isn't diabolically hard to dodge. So i wouldn't want to see misses made too punishing (despite the fact they they are for all other ranged and dash killers huntress, slinger, wesker, nemi etc)
Im not talking about your ability to reach another tile, im talking about the ability to move forwards away from the killer and just hold w away from them after getting hit. Even after only flying slightly forward the speed boost from injury should allow you to hold w for a bit and make some distance. You might get caught before the next tile if unlucky, but you should be able to reach something to loop (even if its just a z wall) if you can path efficiently. To call a hit 10-15s after a ranged attack a double tap is a bit disingenuous.
And the second part just means your punishing him for hitting his shots then, which again doesnt make sense. There are other nerfs that can be given, and you can dodge his ranged attack relatively consistently, so theres no need to then allow you to freely get to a new tile because you got hit. Again, no other killer does that, and I've yet to hear an argument for that. You say misses are punishing for huntress and slinger, when both of those are nowhere near what your suggesting. Huntress especially can just throw another hatchet, she has 7. Wesker gets a miss from his power because the hitbox is his entire body, which is an incredibly forgiving hitbox unlike jason's who is the same size as deathslinger shot rather than hatchets/weskers entire body. Nemisis doesnt get a slowdown after the slash, just whilst slashing, but his slash also destroys pallets. Slinger can just reload or choose not to and go on to m1 and most people run keys to make it take next to no time. None of these examples get punished anywhere similarly to what your describing and you are at best stretching these examples to fit your narrative here.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091478#Comment_4091478
The killer instinct is OP combined with the ranged attack because it lets him pre aim through walls. I'm happy with a bigger range to trigger the scream and it not being counterable by crouching.
I'm more for a recovery after throw than I am a pickup animation. The throw m1 double tap is starting to get hugely annoying. Because the spear blasts you in a direction that often slams you into a wall so you either don't gain distance or actively lose it when you get pushed into a dead end and he doesn't even miss a beat just keep strolling towards you. There's a reason killers have a wipe animation after hitting an m1. After taking a ranged attack from jason you need to be able to get a bit of distance to avoid the follow up m1.
The first part is chill.
The second part im not so agreeable on. If jason's able to get an m1 on you instantly after using his ranged, thats a missplay on your end. I've played as jason for about 35 games now, and 20 survivor, and the handful of times thats happened have been survivors not paying attention to their surroundings and then not using their speedburst correctly from being hit by the ranged attack and injury and failing to make any distance and instead running into a wall.
Recovery after throw wouldnt really help in these situations. And the only time it would punish is after a miss, in which punishing his reload/power cd would be much better at punishing instead of a small recovery after ranged attack (which no ranged killers have btw, no ranged killers have to animate after throwing/shooting something that stops them m1'ing), You can make distance after a ranged attack, you just need to be aware of your surroundings and how you loop him. I've yet to be put in one of these situations, so apologies but i cannot see a situation where he forces you into this outside of you messing up (except from that one room in the game).
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091440#Comment_4091440
I'm not saying to remove one of them completely. But it is true that either one on their own would make for a viable killer. But both powers just have way too many upsides for the killer. They need toning down.
He shouldn't get any haste at all after leaving OE
he needs some kind of slowdown on his ranged attack (animation to pick up and recovery after a throw)
And he shouldn't get killer instinct after leaving OE, just a scream notification.
Your saying an m1 killer with no spike throw would be "viable"- and by viable we're talking above B tier. Competitively viable. Because we see a killer with insane info be locked into C tier for years (Doctor). We've seen a killer with good mobility (much better than jason's) and another power not being able to enter A tier (dredge). Your just wrong on this. Most A/S tiers either have 1 thing theyre oppressively good at, or a decent mixture of them all. There is no single part of Jason's kit thats oppressive.
I agree with some of your changes, however.
Removing killer instict after leaving OE leaves the only RELIABLE information he can get, unless your all for increasing the range the scream can occur to the range killer instict can occur. His phase shift's info can be removed by crouching. otherwise he gets 0 info. Again, removing a part of his kit isn't a viable option unless you match it with a buff to another part making that part strong rather then mediocre.
I can see removing all haste from leaving OE, but that in itself is a huge nerf, removing other things with that would be gutting the guy. A reduction in haste duration from 25s to lets say 10s matched with a phase shift increased cooldown would be a better solution (allows for punishing his bad choices, without making chases harder for him which would just incentivise tunneling/camping hook in phase shift)
Slowdown on his ranged attack already occurs, i could see a world in which he gets a slow down picking up a spike but not that and a recovery from his ranged attack. My suggestion would be limiting scrap heaps making it harder for him to reload, whilst matched with the power cd increased it punishes misses.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091414#Comment_4091414
Hard agree. I made a ranty but informtive post about and got downvoted to hell.
Either power on it's own would make for a strong killer. Both combined is nuts. I also love crouch walking and being unable to do anything for extended periods of time.
Disagree on this, if you removed any part of his power hed be weak. The issue is he has too much and each piece is mediocre on its own.
The nerfs I suggest are: Increased power cd, decreased scrap piles, decreased haste duration after exiting power.
Other nerfs either don't target his issues, or make one part of his power useless (and ergo, he becomes a C tier killer).
Mind You, doctor, who has all the information in the world and an antichase power, is C tier.
There is directions to go, but just removing part of the power isnt it.
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@Jay_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090231#Comment_4090231
I was preparing a response to OP and happened to read the rest of the responses first and you posted nearly word for word what i wanted to post XD.
As you said guys first post so likely hood is they have lost a lot and want to find any excuse as to why other than the fact that they are just not good at DBD lol.Nah, they got back to me and said they'd had a few harsh games and were looking to vent about some things they found incredibly unfun. I don't blame them, sometimes this game does test it's most loyal players, but yeah I don't agree with most of what they said.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090500#Comment_4090500
Most agree because Killer has an ego problem. Naturally the narrative would be that Killer is always the weakest even when the data says otherwise.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090513#Comment_4090513
Absolutely. They consistently choose the options that keep the worst parts of the game alive. The "balance" has always fallen on the kindness of individual players, which of course went out the window when they started encouraging more aggressive play.
Lmao, and playing with Comms in a game not balanced around it and then pretending it doesn't make you insanely strong isn't egotistical?
Killer is stronger then survivor soloqueue, "casual" swf are on par with killer. Comp swf beat killer. These are generally accepted. And are Stated by big streamers, it's you who has an ego that your ability/knowledge of the game is better than those.
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@Yamalive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090516#Comment_4090516
None of them said something like this. Youre just generalizing discussions.
Otz has specifically said this.
Scott junf said this and stated that swf is stronger and has used this to justify why voice chat should be in the game to make balancing easier.
Hens refuses to say which side is stronger, but has said swf is on par if not stronger then killer when people asked for swf only queues.
Jrm mentioned he agrees swf is way too strong and skews balancing, but doesn't want swf only queues.
I can probably find more instances of this.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090871#Comment_4090871
Just realized what you meant about it being a problem that it only applies to gen kicks, as in the gen kick bonus would not be nearly as helpful to killers that are running pain res or something. In that case I honestly think the 5% bonus regression could be added to the next gen regression event, if they kick a gen then it gets applied there, or if they Pain Res it gets applied there instead.
Is all good DW.
And yeah that'd be a good change aswell.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091023#Comment_4091023
I have to disagree with that. Omnipresent mode is definitely good, just like his chase, but none of it is too oppressive in my opinion. There is enough counterplay to Jason.
The nerf I suggested is just to keep hex builds on him in check. Because I don't really believe he needs any other nerfs.
No individual part of his kit is oppressive, but together with a good build he's insane. Easily rivals hillbilly (another s tier killer).
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090463#Comment_4090463
That sounds like serious overkill for Jason. To me he seems like a solid A tier killer, and A tier killers don't really need to be nerfed in any impactful way. The only nerf I would suggest is him not being able to see survivors in Omnipresent Evil when they work on totems. And maybe a very small cooldown increase for his Omnipresent Evil mode.
He's s tier. Easily.
Right now, he has decent mobility, info, a ranged attack that also has a Mori for free.
And the nerf you've suggested is A) useless and B) doesn't stop the issues people reasonably have with him.
You can stop him getting info by crouching. Even without red mist you can hear people.
The real nerfs he needs are:
Increased power cd, decreased haste duration and less scrap piles to force him to rely on hooks more and punish him missing his ranged attack.
Then he'd be a low a tier killer. Still strong, but not busted.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090941#Comment_4090941
Yeah but an automatic 20% off a gen just for marking someone? it needs a cooldown at the very least
Yeah I'd be fine with that. Also it's not just for marking someone, it's marking someone on a gen. But yh a cd wouldn't be amiss
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090927#Comment_4090927
Giving Ghostface a buffed TBTC basekit on mark is insane
Ghost face isnt good, and it would allow him to snowball a bit more. Especially without requiring 4 slowdown perks
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@Doctor_Xenomorph said:
Post is self explanatory
Don't know the names for most of these so ill keep it to their descriptions:
Trappers add-on that makes it so that when you disarm a trap it damages you
wraith's bell that makes the sound come from all over the place
Hag: rusty shackles
doctor: calm (purple)
Huntress: aura reading on hatchet hit
Pig: crate of gears and razer wire
clown: increased move speed whilst reloading
Legion: Token add on that makes it so after hitting a bunch of feral slashes in the end game he gets movespeed
Trickster: bouncing blades addon
nemesis: aura reading on those unlocking chests with serum
Deathslinger: mangled add on after shots
ghostface: drivers license
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090875#Comment_4090875
Hillbilly is significantly better than all of those killers.. Billy is pretty much inside of S tier he is just held back by like 5 maps.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090875#Comment_4090875
I dont know, IMO Billy is Top 3 without a Doubt. In general, I feel that the Top 3 are pretty set with Nurse, Blight and Billy and then afterwards you can discuss, I see different people putting Killers in the Top 5. I have seen Twins, Dracula, Ghoul, Spirit seen in different Tier Lists.
But usually the Top 3 are Nurse, Blight and Billy, most of the time in that order, but sometimes people rank Billy over Blight. (Which I would personally disagree with, @pidgeon made the perfect point that Billy is just held back by a few maps where he is really bad on)
I disagree with the significant part of that statement, but this is an opinion on both ends so ill let you be.
Haven't played against an insane billy in a while, so that might be changing my opinion slightly, but Dracula definitely can compete with him.
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@BruceCampbell said:
Matt said in a recent interview that the game is not only receiving a graphical update, but it's basically being entire rebuilt. This is great news! Maybe now killers can be upgraded with new stuff, like:
-Kaneki being able to switch floors with his power (actually I want this killer deleted, but he's a great example of what a killer could do to change floors in certain maps).
-Dracula's bat being able to move vertically.
-Alien walking on walls.
-Twins not being the buggy mess it is because the game does not support flying and Victor is the only killer who actually jumps/takes their feet off the ground (Vecna's Fly and Dracula's bat are just workarounds).
BUT a basically new game means that all the exploitable, unfair bugs like crouch tech and heal tech have no reason to be "re-introduced".
I think this last part specifically will create rivers of tears on how much crying they'll generate.
What do you guys think?Changes i'd prefer would be:
Deathslinger able to grapple to certain points on the map giving him some form of small mobility.
Nemesis can now rope swing using his tentacle in t3, allowing him to have a tiny bit of mobility.
trickster rework so he has more of an agile power allowing him to dash and inbetween dashes can throw out a blade.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W8ILW623H373/screenshot-2026-06-21-110743.png
Ok this my newer and better tier list. im sure Xeno in A is controversial but i feel hes strong and worthy of low a tier
Having hillbilly above ghoul , dracula and jason is an interesting choice.
Outside that its pretty standard
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090756#Comment_4090756
If that was an issue, I think increasing instant gen regression to 10% (15s or charges) or regression rate to 0.35 charges/second (4m 17s from 100% to 0%) might be fine as long as changes to regression perks accounted for the increase properly.
Otherwise, a couple random ideas from the top of my head come from making certain perks partially base kit. Almost like Ruin, perhaps if a gen is left alone for say 60 seconds, the gen begins to break down again and regression starts on it's own. Or like Pain Res, maybe another benefit added onto the list of hooking an unhooked survivor (before a survivor has been killed) would be to regress the most progressed generator automatically by 5-8% (of course Pain Res would have to be adjusted accordingly).
I think out of all of these, I'd maybe be most averse to increasing the gen regression rate and adding the base kit Pain Res, namely because the gen regression means that if someone goes on just a minute chase while their gen regresses or it takes a minute for someone to find the gen they were working on, almost a fourth of the total gen progress would be gone, and a base kit Pain Res might make DMS annoying to run into every game. But either way, just throwing out some ideas here
These are interesting thoughts, and definitely one's I hadn't considered, but the basekit pain res might be enough to do something to help. I'd be interested to see these at least tested.
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The changes themselves are well thought out. My only issue is the slowdown for killers only occurs when they kick gens.
Gen speeds would need an adjustment if these changes were to go live, and that might mean an extra gen needs to be done, or that gens take longer.
Gen speeds as they are right now would not be fair if anti tunnel, slug and camp measures of this proportion were added.
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@Veroscis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090251#Comment_4090251
I would argue that I wouldn't mind taking the chase from him if whenever he spawned out of omnipresent, resources such as windows and pallets weren't blocked for free, it's almost like asking for a free hit or down. And as I've argued before in previous posts when it comes to "conveniently" placed windows and vaults it's the same situation with gens. Most gens are placed to where there's one good way to go, and one bad way to go, usually the good way (which is where most mindful killers will contend) will be guarded while the bad way, will also likely lead you to get a spear in the back. I'm definitely not saying its never possible. I've had a few good runs and loops against him. But, in most of those cases it's been because he decided to start a chase out of omnipresence or for whatever reason, user error, spawned from a less optimal resource. That said, forcing chases against him is quite boring especially speaking against well experienced killers who are used to throwing projectiles. you just get hit and die no matter how good you think you are.
If this is your issue id advise running windows of opportunity, most the time you can get to a pallet/window before he gets to you. If your struggling to spot them this perk is a must have.
"Forcing chases against him is quite boring"- sadly this is not a reason to say he's busted, just that you don't find him fun. I know people agree with you, I personally don't. I love going against him as his spike has a small hitbox and is easy to juke. I often am the one to force chases and have managed a few times to force them to switch targets.
I love the challenge personally.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090453#Comment_4090453
Springtrap does not give hindered when removing the ax but yes, they both give aura reading. Also no his animation is much faster than huntress, consider the time it takes to fully charge a hatchet, he has that all the time faster than it takes for huntress to just pull out a hatchet.
Ghoul's map mobility is so good it's almost a killer power by itself, I just wanted to use them as a benchmark to show that Jason's broken.
You are right that it's only when every part of his power is together is he op, the spear alone would make him slightly weaker than springtrap. Likewise if he just had omnipresent evil he's probably be on the same tier as doctor. It's only the fact that he has so much going for him that he's overpowered.
Also you are welcome, I hope you are having a good day.
If your fully charging hatchet as huntress as the majority of your shots you doing something wrong.
Most the time your holding it for a second more maybe.
2nd point is fair.
And yeah my day is going amazing, hope yours is too :)
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090598#Comment_4090598
If you abuse/exploit the good thinks given to you, you lose them
Idk who this "you" you keep referring to is but if this were true, something would have been done about egerious tunneling and slugging. Sometimes they're tactical, sometimes they're desperate, but often they're abused. I just got out of a match with a Billy using the slug build that's been going around. Everyone slugged with no gens done. I got less than 3k points you can't tell me that's not abusing a bad system. Yet anti-cheese survivor perks get nerfs.
But do you not see the issue with saying "just bring perks" and I say "those perks suck" so you go with "well, there's a reason for that"?
So yes, regression was hit, massively.
I was talking about diminishing, which hit almost all gen perks. The increase did come with nerfs to regress, yeah, but diminishing hit gen speed boosters drastically more than gen regress. This idea that killers will be nice if gen times go up is nonesense. Gen speeds can't be changed without anti-cheese going through too.
The only reason currently it gives slowdown is because people are too scared to take chase and just sit there hoping someone else does.
Yes, that's how you do it. That's how we've been doing it in SWF, which is the only way I'll touch survivor right now. How often do you see soloers electing to take chase? The matches are stalling to a halt constantly even in SWF. The few solos I attempted were even worse.
Genuinely, running a map, or a perk like detectives hunch in your build and bam you can smash out those totems.
Finding them isn't usually an issue if you know the game. It's having enough time to get rid of them with Thrill and often FtD while managing his free info. Also, Detective's Hunch is behind a pay wall.
However, this isn't a argument against jason (the third one), but an argument against that hex combo. Other killers also use that combo a lot, so maybe you should focus your energy at that here.
Thrill is bad as is, but these builds have been basically autowins on Jason. If you don't do the totems he keeps chasing you off gens and they regress. Most are using Badge too, so free regress just for existing. If you do the totems you'll likely be found cause of free info. It's hard to do them against a halfway decent killer without coordination.
You, is in general. If either side abuse something given it is taken away. It goes to show that tunneling is not seen as an abuse of the killer, moreso that the killer is just doing their job efficiently.
Let me rephrase your second point. "I don't like the killer playing efficiently", "we can give you perks that make it harder for the killer to play efficiently, but casualising the game isn't something the community as a whole wants" , "why don't these perks stop the killer playing efficiently". The whole point is there is perks that make tunneling less efficient, but removing tunneling /making it entirely inefficient isn't good for the game because it forces the game to go in a casual direction and force things like longer gen times, easier regression, less skill expression on both sides ect.
"The idea killers will be nice if gens times go up is nonsense" I agree. But casualising the game must be on both sides or it becomes unplayable for one side. This is why monstrum failed. They tried to casualising their killer side whilst the runners could endlessly respawn and had plenty of time. So if you want tunneling removed, the other necessity is it's easier for killers to apply pressure/ less punishing when they don't. For example, increasing gen times. This won't make killers play nicer, but it will allow the Devs to implement proper punishments for it because they're heading in a more casual direction.
"How often do you see solo'ers elect to take chase"- out of my 20 games of Jason, about 5 of them people have just hid and hid for a minute+ and then elected to take chase. The 15 games I played against Jason, I was electing to take chase most of them, and when I was death hook someone took chase relatively quickly. This is as a solo surv.
Id agree with the fourth point. I think thrill needs some sort of nerf. It's too oppressive as is. I personally run corrupt, BBQ, discordance and bamboozle as Jason. Sometimes switching bamboozle with ruin if I'm having a rough few games and need the extra slowdown (happened once, switching it for three games, then continued). A fun build with info and chase perks to help with the harder tiles.
I've got a 76% wr as Jason, and a 67% escape rate Vs him. As a survivor I run lithe, decisive, kindred and deja vu.