Ranged Killers Should be 115%/4.6 m/s
Killers such as Huntress, Deathslinger, Trickster should permanently be 4.6 m/s because as we currently see with Jason, it's not OP to be 115% with a Ranged Projectile, and Trickster was 115% in the past but it was really dumb to nerf him back to 115%
It wouldn't be op for any of them to be permanently 115% as the current meta is just to hold W and rush generators, and 110% killers like the ones mentioned have a lot of trouble with survivors pre-running, holding W, and even just the killer generally patrolling the map takes too long, ranged killers already get slowed down to 3 M/S while winding up and beginning their ranged attack so why not just make them 115%/4.6 m/s
I know survivors will whine and complain but honestly there's nothing wrong with a ranged killer being 4.6 m/s, Jason isn't busted at all and he's 4.6 m/s for 25s, but imo he should be 4.6 m/s permanently, all ranged killers should be, the only killers that should be slow outside of their power are Blight and Nurse because of their power
Even Springtrap should permanently be 115%, it's really unfortunate they just wanted to make him a gimmick killer with his speed being different without the axe
Comments
Huntress should only be 4.6 when out of hatchets in my opinion
we don't need to be 115 in chase honestly…
Out of chase some kind of way for killers without mobility, like portals from the entity for a fresh hook or something would be wonderful.
I disagree, she could be 4.6 permanently and it wouldn't be an issue, she's already slower moving than other ranged killers while charging/winding her hatchet
I consider myself an avid Trickster hater myself, but it makes literally no sense as to why he is 4.4
Jason's overloaded kit is an issue, but i agree outside of jason being permanently 4.6. he's the only one out of those examples that couldn't use the buff.
Deathslinger,huntress and trickster would all benefit from that buff, and id personally be happy with it seeing as they have no other map traversal. I think springtrap can stay 4.4 m/s unless we get some other nerfs in the near future. But yeah for the most part i agree.
Jason does not have an overloaded kit, he is just the path that killers are headed and need to head to keep up with the meta while not being super insanely busted
He's basically a sidegraded and slightly stronger Springtrap, but Springtrap should be 4.6 m/s without any nerfs, both Springtrap nor Jason are not any higher than the pinnacle of B Tier
B Tier killers do NOT need any nerfs
They only reverted him to 4.4 m/s because of whiny survivors and Trickster mains who don't want anyone to play the killer who aren't diehard Trickster fans/players and they want to gate keep the killer for some reason
After the the first week or two of the Trickster update I haven't seen him since except maybe once or twice
What they did to him made even less people play him overall
"sidegraded springtrap" is wild considering he has info, insane mobility and the same ranged attack.
Hes easily A tier, Ive seen people argue S tier, but i believe he falls short of it considering Nurse and hillbilly are the prime examples of S tier killers.
Hes stronger than all B tier killers you could mention.
Ah yes, just because a new release has an incredibly long haste buff for the most of the trial, every other killer that has range is suddenly eligible for it too.
I think that outside of Deathslinger, all of the ranged killers are fine speed wise. Jason could get a bit of the haste trimmed (15 seconds sound good?).
I'm not fully opposed to upping the older range killers to 115%, but I do want to dispel the notion that 110% killers are meaningfully worse than 115%'s at map traversal. It takes a 115% killer about 22 seconds to walk 100 meters (about the length of Coal Tower), while it takes a 110% killer 23 seconds. This change would have little to no effect on their traversal, it's more about making them more versatile in chase around structures their powers don't work well on.
I also disagree with making Springtrap and Jason fully 115%. Their speed mechanics are designed to add to their skill cap and play style, removing that would just make them blander without meaningfully affecting their strength. Springtrap's the only one of the two that could use buffs anyways, and I'd rather that focus on a 1v4 mechanic with the cameras so that they'd feel more integral to matches with him.
He definitely isn't A Tier, his Spike is incredibly skill reliant, survivors can easily stealth his power so he's one of the hardest killers to tunnel on, not to mention he reverts to 4.4 m/s when downing a survivor and all of his add-ons are terrible except Dirty Money, Deputy Badge, Sauna Rock, and Noisemaker
He is most definitely close to a Springtrap sidegrade
Whiny survivor alert, 115% for the older killers like Huntress and Deathslinger would be fine because that's one of the buffs they NEED at this point, and Jason should've been permanently 115% too
Both of them could use being permanently 115% because a good Jason or Springtrap is 115% for 80% of the match anyway so why not just go the full mile
"his spike is incredibly skill reliant"- same as deathslingers.
"Survivors can easily stealth his power"- so you hardlock people out of the game
"one of the hardest killers to tunnel on"- yes and no, you can just tp back at unhook and tunnel that way.
"he reverts back to 4.4 m/s when downing a survivor"- but can be 4.6 when it matters (in chase) cuz when out of chase he can just use power and zoom around. and get free info or softlock the game.
"all his add-on's are terrible except…….."i actually agree with this, his add-ons on large are pretty terrible, but he doesnt need good addons given how overloaded his kit is.
He also has, insane mobility that no other ranged killer has, haste to push him up to 4.6 almost permanently since his powers on a lower cd then the haste, he can reload pretty easily aswell as it stands.
Hes definitely A tier, and the attempt to downgrade him is ridiculous.
"if you attempt to tunnel be appearing at an unhook, you will appear way slower than usual"- yep, and you can still tunnel really easy due to the killer instinct helping you path towards them.
"justifying bad add-ons because a killer isn't d tier is the most braindead take I've ever seen"- im not justifying it because he isn't d tier, theres C and B tier killers who need add on adjustment, and A/S tiers who need power shifting from their power to some of their add-ons.
"He is not A tier lil bro, the lack of many good add-ons combined with how hard it is to tunnel, and how incredibly hard it can be to hit the spear makes him way more skill based than most other killers, and knowing when and where to appear to cut off a survivor also increases his skill ceiling"-
ok kiddo, lets go through some of things you've said here.
"How hard it is to tunnel"- you don't need to tunnel with him is the issue, he can apply pressure quickly and easily, and if your finding it hard to commit to a chase run thanat and force them to stop and heal.
"how incredibly hard it can be to hit the spear"- I agree its harder than huntress, but its the same as deathslinger and easier than springtrap. Its the same size as deathslinger but faster, and you don't need to reel them in and get the m1. Springtraps is big but slow and doesn't go far at all.
"way more skill based than most other killers"- I'd say his skill expression caps out pretty low given how much info and traversal is given in his power, plus hes essentially 4.6 m/s most the time, and has a low power cd so its hard to punish.
"knowing when and where to appear to cut off a survivor also increases his skill ceiling"- yeah, but not by as much as you think it does apparently. Also skill ceiling isn't taken into account when considering scalings. Otherwise nurse would never be S tier, since you believe its bringing back springtrap by a whole tier (which jason is much less affected by mindgames/decision making than nurse btw).
You've dodged around actually addressing the fact he has good map traversal, is 4.6 m/s, has info in his power that can softlock a game and has ample opportunity to tp again, reload and keep track of a survivor, which puts him well above every other ranged killer. And deathslinger is considered B tier, springtrap jumps between B and A depending on the patch and huntress is a strong B tier killer. At minimum hes low A tier, given his dependancy on rng based on where scrap piles spawn for his chases, but he has high snowball potential, can pressure each survivor with his shift (paired with ruin it gets survivors to stop doing gens and buys you a lot more time), and also can push survivors away from certain loops.
But keep dancing around the facts, doesn't make your point any more valid
"everyone else agrees he's high B tier"- no they don't. People are calling him more oppressive than ghoul, some are saying he's S tier, i disagree because the bar for S tier is hillbilly and nurse, but He's certainly strong.
"Springtrap's axe is way easier and more generous" - Its more generous, sure, but easier? its slower, and has a limited range. It is definitionally weaker than Jason's.
"Yeah he has good map traversal, but so does just about every other killer these days, Springtrap has immediate access to every generator and hes' still B Tier because Survivors can stomp him, just like Survivors can easy stomp Jason"- theres so much wrong with this statement, where do I begin. Springtrap doesn't have immediate access to every generaton, he has 8 doors he can move between. Jason can shift from wherever to anywhere theres a pallet, window or breakable door (basically anywhere, including right next to a gen). On top of this "so does about every other killer these days"- and most the recent killers have either been A tier or High B tier. Krasue is the one exception (because their head form is beyond useless), but every other recent killer given map traversal is High B or A. Ghoul, Dark lord, Houndmaster, Lich, xenomorph. Its called power creep, and Jason is a really good example of it.
"You're pretty dumb so i see i probably can't change your mind"- you have refused to address the facts, completely ignored almost all of my comments, and then reduced your comments to ad-homonyms. You obviously don't have the experience, or faculty, to be a part of this conversation, and should probably stay out of posts talking about balancing before you make yourself look like a fool.
HA! Completely wrong start to finish.
I am a killer main, almost exclusively play killer.
Except, unlike many, I can see when people use a stupidly strong mechanic to make other mechanics seem fine.
That's rich.
I wouldn't be spewing crap about belonging in balance discussions with takes like yours, especially with the fact you are just parroting what Scott Jund said.
Additionally, if I'd truly been biased, I would have agreed with you.
The call is coming from inside of the house, Kaara.