StarLost
StarLost
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@PerfectlyPink said:
Believe it or not, there are content creators and people who think she's A tier.
I'd go as far as saying she's the second worst killer in the game unless you're on an indoor map
In perfect scenarios, she's probably A or B tier. But to do this, you're talking the perfect map with 1 iri and 1 purple addon.
And this is true of most killers.
@Bamallamadingdong said:
I saw the first game or so of his video on the subject and to be honest I don't particularly get it. The first game was a 4k despite an extremely stacked lobby and we're supposed to worry about her power level because it was a stressful match for him? I don't really think we should be calling a killer underpowered because they can't go on a massive 3-4k streak, it'd be like saying survivors need a big buff because people aren't able to get 100+ escape streaks anymore.
Watch more of the streak.
A lot of the time, he got rocked for the entire game and only won because the survivors were incredibly altruistic. Where this didn't happen, he generally got flattened.
In his own words, even when he won as her he didn't feel like he'd actually won - more like survivors had lost.
Also...what? There's a difference between 100 escapes in a row and 13. I forget what his solo escape streak was, but I think it was 20ish, and he got it in 2 days. Again - solo. As a killer main that only started seriously playing survivor a few months ago.
Every killer can 4k if they get lucky, get sent to the perfect map and get mismatched by MMR. So...just don't adjust the balance again, ever?
@Tsulan said:
She has an interesting power, that gets rendered useless for the "rest of the match" if she uses it to much. She would become a true hit and run killer, IF the TVs wouldn´t take so long to turn on again, after she ported there. But as it is now, she´s just a m1 killer with no loop abilty.
Also her stealth is kinda useless against most survivors. Devs need to improve both things before anything else.
A pure addon number crunch won´t fix her.
She needs a substantial rework, but I don't think it'll ever happen.
The best we can hope for is some addons being baked in and some numbers tweaks.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2887219#Comment_2887219
Forgot those players existed 😂 and it certainly is possible I just doubt they would do it, afterall the PC had the lowest player count before crossplay.
I just dont wanna verse cheaters, a man just wants to game yano? It's bad enough I have to deal with DCs or just unbalanced stuff, adding hackers is just salt in a wound during the day
I agree. Hackers suck.
However, punishing all PC players because a tiny minority hacks or allowing people to deliberately isolate weak consoles for easy games strikes me as a case of the cure being worse than the disease.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2887151#Comment_2887151
Facecamping, nodding, teabagging, hitting on hook, letting you bleedout on purpose. Are those not enough?
Facecamping isn't toxic. It's...obnoxious, but it is an actual ingame strategy.
Bleeding people out...in maybe 300 games I've seen this happen in one game where the killer wasn't heavily provoked.
Teabagging - sure? But only 2 killers AFAIK can even do this, and neither are commonly played. We're talking about proportional numbers here.
Nodding is tricky, because it's difficult to infer meaning. I'll sometimes nod/shake to communicate with survivors - as in, 'yeah sure, go open the exit gates' or 'no, I don't want to farm with you'.
Hitting on hook - yes.
Look: I'm not saying that there are no toxic killers. I'm saying that, both in terms of the games I play and the streams I watch, survivors seem substantially more frequently toxic.
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@reeves7 said:
today ptb showed devs are finally starting to litsen and honestly i want to give them kudos.It shows that no matter how much stubborn they were even if they were in the wrong,they are starting to follow the right path for this game. The buff of legion and ghostface,two of the weakest killers of this game should be the beginning of all killer buffs. Except nurse and blight all killers should be evaluated and given buffs to catch up with the evolution of this game. The majority of killers are weak and others are very punishing and they are not worth learning (ex hillbilly ),so please devs keep improving killers because the gap between survivors and killers is still huge.
Eh. I wouldn't go that far. The S and A (and most of the B) tier killers are just fine - most of them just need some numbers tweaks to their addons to make them worth using.
@tenoresax said:
I made a poll about this recently, most people agreed Myers is the weakest and needs to be buffed next so I've got my bets on him.
I wouldn't hold my breath. Myers' kill rates are healthy and he's extremely good at pummeling new players.
@jesterkind said:
Twins are up next, iirc - after seeing how well the Legion and Ghostface changes were done, I have pretty high hopes for them!
Legion looks great. Ghostface...I'll have to see how the mechanical tweaks to reveal operate, as these could end up being a net nerf.
@Ginnypig said:
Any licensed killer that is not a B or C tier minimum should be reworked. Its a marketing necessity, and would be top priority if i would be game cirector.
Remove 'licensed' and yes.
I'd hope that Onryo gets some love next - watching Otz's streak attempts on her is excruciating. In his words 'it feels like she has no power at all'. He also considers her to be the most difficult streak he's ever attempted - including pre-rework Trapper.
Myers needs some love. Give TSP a small nerf if you have to.
PH and Freddy need a complete addon pass.
Nemesis is almost fine, but again some addon tweaks wouldn't go amiss. Ditto Cenobite.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2887176#Comment_2887176
Then they should allow us to pick each and every platform we wish to play with...
I could honestly quite happily just avoid PC players. Yeah it sucks I even want that but in the end itd result in a better gaming experience for me. If I could turn crossplay off for pc only boom.
Sounds great!
When I want easier games, I'll just set it to pair me against Nintendo consoles only :).
(In all seriousness, I don't think this is possible from a technical standpoint).
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@th3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2887169#Comment_2887169
I’ve been matched with them more than enough to justify making a support ticket with evidence which is what I have done, and by “harass” I mean what they’ve done according to the rules qualifies as harassment/targeting rather than your snide comment. I’ve not had a survivor do this to me ever.
Really?
Now, I'm sorry you had a toxic killer, but even when I play survivor, I'm more likely to see people cussed out in postgame by my allies than the killer.
On the other hand, this game was the game that made me make my Steam profile private - as a year or so ago, I comitted the mortal sin of killing a TTV and her mates and she sent her viewers to go and take a widdle on my Steam wall.
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@EntitySpawn said:
Title.
While I'm aware every department works on separate issues this is kinda a joke how freely people can cheat...
While I'm no mastermind at coding surely it's not hard to track people that are obviously hacking and then those more subtle ones using more than 4 perks or just straight up moving faster with no active effects or perks helping them?
Is a system that hard to code where it keeps track of the perks in play and then evaluates the game as its played?
Yeah, it sucks. But it's rarer than it was a bit back and...I hate to tell you this, but you can't really 'fix' hacking. Not these days - hacking games has become so profitable and obfuscation so sophisticated that even megacompanies like ActiBlizz and Epic have tons of hackers, despite their expensive proprietary anti-cheats.
Right now, if you can afford $100 a month, you can buy a hacking suite for the game of your choice and can probably evade bans for a long time unless you're overt. For 5x that, you can often get a completely undetectable private hack.
Unfortunately, this isn't something that people have really found a fix for - aside from where it's possible to sue or prosecute the hack developers.
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@Maxitolliony said:
i could not find anything about this on google, how do you do it?
like the dam range is so slow and a low range so idk how your supposed to do this daily, i can skip it but i do wonder how do people do it.
You'll need to get a feel for her birbs.
Long range sniping is unreliable. What you should be doing is birding someone with a single shot during chase (lead them) and then firing a full spread of 3 to hit.
Bring the yellow addon that decreases cooldown time or the purple that gives you 4 birds, plus the brown that extends swarm duration.
Short range shots are very tricky to get right, as most survivors are now smart enough to just leave the loop the second she places one.
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@Bubbalover said:
I meet toxic survivors in every Killer match i play. I never met a toxic Killer tho. Is there a reason for Survivors beeing super toxic?
It's because, unfortunately, this game feels designed in a way to make survivors feel like gods when they get away, and this feeling of utter dominance tends to promote gloating.
The developers have also exacerbated the situation, with them stating on the forums that they believe 'smack talk' to be an essential part of online gaming. Although looking at the recent survey, this might be shifting.
@Marigoria said:
If you never met a toxic killer you probably never played survivor in the first place.
There's toxic people on both sides.
Yes, there are absolutely toxic killers.
However (unless you consider camping to be 'toxic') I see proportionally far fewer toxic killers than toxic survivors.
I think it comes from both the design of the game (killer tends to be very frantic and often feels like you're losing horribly until you eventually snowball while survivor tends to feel really easy and chill and then you die/escape) and the 'strength in numbers' aspect of playing survivor.
It's just the gaming equivalent of a group at school picking on the loner.
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@JohnWick1654 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2887078#Comment_2887078
The concept of rank decay was always cringe in my oppinion,
Well okay, games that don't reset the rank all the way back to the lowest at least preserve the mmr and the starting point of where you left of is not 0, it's similar to other high skill players.
But when games reset the rank completely? Like why? The Rank 1 player's skill doesn't magicaly fly out the window with the rank reset, he will just obliterate noobs and give them unfun experience...
I don't know.
I was away for over a year, and when I came back I might as well have been completely new. So many things had changed.
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@GannTM said:
Plague up that high is quite a bold take imo.
I'd consider Plague to be one of the top 'A' tier killers, the only thing holding her back is a current meta style that people haven't found an answer for (spam cleanse then hide).
@Norhc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886279#Comment_2886279
How are they not? Also, Clown, Wraith and Myers should be much higher than D. Especially Pinky Clown and Tombstone Myers.
Pinky Clown isn't actually that strong post nerf. Deathslinger with his instadown Iri is far more consistent - landing those bottles against good survivors is quite tricky.
Wraith...a little, maybe. But he's still pretty crap.
Myers - absolutely not. If you'd asked me a week ago, I'd have said that TSP and his infinite T3 iri would bump him up a tier, then I watched some games of Otz's 'tier testing' and even using these, he got pummeled. I think that I must have played against survivors who watched that video, as suddenly my Myers games are absolute nightmares - people being very clever about keeping me in T1 for ages and being ultra safe once they hear the T3 cue.
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@JohnWick1654 said:
I am yet to find survivors, that are not walking potatoes,
or survivors that aren't abusing the MMR system to troll.
As crazy as it sounds I would appreciate to play against at least decent survivors that can do couple of generators and have at least small sense of understanding what they should be doing.
It's pretty boring, I'm gonna try playing Bubba to secure fast 4k games, maybe that will speed things up....
Well, if I could send you some of the survivors I had yesterday I would.
That said, I think that if you don't play for an extended period, it considers you a 'new' killer, and you'll have maybe 5 easy games. 4k them and you'll see the quality of opponents you face increase exponentially.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Haven't done one of these in a while so I decided: "Why not?". It's just a basic Killer tier list based on strength, nothing special.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FSGMDI0LFBP6/my-image-2813-29.png
Now, onto explaining a few unpopular picks.
S+: Nurse
Nurse should probably be in S tier, but because of how she pretty much plays a different game, I decided to put her in her own tier.
S: Plague and Hag
Hag is usually seen as the 4th best Killer in the game, but I disagree and instead have Plague in that spot. Why? Plague straight up removes CoH from the game, aswell as Dead Hard granting a 3rd Health State. Plague also has one of the best snowball potentials in the game.
I'm not saying Hag is bad, far from it in fact, but CoH still hit her, like many Killers.
A: Executioner and Demogorgon
Executioner has the best tunnel potential in the game. Decisive Strike pretty much gets nullified, thanks to his Cages Of Atonement, aswell as his Final Judgement.
Demogorgon is an odd pick for the A tier.
Most people sleep on his Portals and only focus on his Shred, which, in my opinion, isn't better than his Portals but it also isn't worse. They're perfectly split 50/50.
Demogorgon's Portals are a really good movement option, aswell as info gatherers with Leprose Lichen and Lifeguard Whistle.
Shred is still an amazing chase tool. It's quick, it's easy to zone with it, it shreds through Pallets with Barb's Glasses, shreds through Survivors with Black Heart and is versatile. It's not only used for antiloop, but can be used for mobility if it's used from a high spot, like a hill.
B: Onryō
I like Sadako. She's not the best Killer, nor is she the worst. Most people tend to ignore how brutal a 3-Gen can be with Sadako, basically unwinnable in certain scenarios, which you can't always say with most Killers, especially M1 Killers, which Sadako is.
Sadako has a few really good Add-ons too. Iridescent Videotape is probably her best Add-on, but Ring Drawing and Cabin Sign are my personal favorites.
C: Nemesis, Twins and Freddy
Nemesis and Freddy are the Wish versions of Demogorgon. They're not better in any way, especially Freddy, but they got their unique quirks that keep them slightly different.
Twins got hit in the nuts thanks to their constant nerfs. Getting hit by a Decisive Strike every time you use your Power correctly isn't fair or balanced, and along with that, Twins get punished by playing "nice". If you don't slug with the Twins, you're wasting so much time every time you down, pick up and hook someone, atleast 1 Generator should get finished per chase.
D: Trickster
Most people place Trickster around C tier which is something I just can't get behind. His latest "buff", felt more like a nerf tbh, made him deadlier in Dead-Zones...which is something he was already good at. Along with that "buff", he got his amount of Knives reduced to 44, and made Laceration go by so fast, he's pretty much useless at any loop with a high wall.
F: While Tier and Deathslinger
Most people don't include an F tier in their tier lists, which is fine but I believe some Killers 100% are weak enough to deserve an F tier, Deathslinger being one of them.
Deathslinger got removed from the game. His Terror Radius was increased to 32 Meters, and he is a 4.4 Killer. Why is that bad? It means he will never get into a chase. As soon as a Survivor hears his Terror Radius, then can just run away and he won't be able to do anything about it.
That's not even getting to his ADS nerf, which made it so Survivors run faster than he can look around while aiming
Okay, let's dig in here. Assume a non-mention is agreement.
- I'd put both Nurse and Blight at top tier, especially after Blight's addon buffs. They are both...utterly ridiculous once you get the basics of their style. Blight moves up one.
- Hag feels like the game has sort of left her behind - everyone and their dog knows how to approach her these days. The healing meta hurts her, especially CoH. Eyrie is a nightmare for her. She's still good (and will always be my favorite killer), but moves down one.
- Artist and Huntress are both very high skill-cap killers that can absolutely devastate people. Artist in particular has limitless potential and is held back only slightly by her bleh addons. Huntress...in the hands of the right player is almost creeping up to 'S' tier. Both move up one.
- PH...can be good, but like Hag it feels like the game has left him behind slightly. Holding W is so, so effective against him and his addons are crap. Moves down to the bottom of 'A'.
- Plague - great killer, incredible potential but a bit RNG reliant. The current 'overcleanse' meta (which is slowly replacing the 'never cleanse' meta) is actually quite hard to counter on some maps. Smart survivors will basically use all the fountains, then hide and wait out your red puke. Have yet to find a good answer to this - until then, she moves down one.
- Demo is a wonderful killer, but I'd never put him on the same tier as Artist and Huntress...and probably not even Oni or PH. He moves down one - a perfectly balanced killer naturally sits somewhere in the middle. His shred is very telegraphed and too easy to juke - and missing a shred is generally a lost chase. Still love him though.
- Onryo - no. Just...no. Go and watch some of Otz's streak attempts on her - she has one decent gimmick (her teleports) but these are very RNG dependent. Otherwise she's kind of terrible. She moves down one, to either the bottom of C or high D. Wraith is better than her, Trickster, Nemmy, Twins, Doctor and Cenobite are way better than her.
- Nemmy is another 'balanced' killer. He's strong, has a nice chaotic element and with better addons could probably top 'B' tier. As it stands, he's about on par with Demo. DMS+PR+Discordance is incredible on him, as is CoB (the audio cues attract zombies). He moves up one.
- Twins...oh man. Strong, but lose a lot of points because of how abysmally clunky and unfun they are to play. Still...moves up one. Twins can completely dominate small-medium sized maps and aren't that hard to play either.
- Doctor - strong toolkit, decent addons. A bit latency dependent. Throw DMS on him and he's a killing machine. I'd put him low in 'B' tier, moving him up one.
- Cenobite - extremely hard to play, but quite strong outside of indoor maps. Some solid addons. I'd put him about on par with Demo. Moves up one. Another killer I've played a lot of.
- Freddy - ugh. Against decent survivors, he may as well not have a power. Teleport takes forever, addons may as well not exist. Moves down one, possibly two for just how one note he is.
- Wraith...he's not great, but is helped out by some incredible addons and once you learn how to effectively bodyblock on him, he can actually do okay. All Seeing are some of the best addons in the entire game, particularly his Iri. Moves up one.
- Trickster - not as bad as his kill rates would suggest, but very map dependent. Can snowball like nobody's business. Moves up one.
- Slinger - he's clunky, but can actually do some pretty cool things. His 1v1 is still monstrously strong, if a touch slow. I'd rate him over Trickster. Moves up two.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/317571/dont-let-bias-effect-game-balance
I agree,also I dont mind seeing Dead Hard being nerfed to the ground and make it useless.
Then see perks like Red Herring become meta perks.
I want meta perks to be bad,and non meta perks to become the new meta.
That's an awful way to balance the game and smacks of sour grapes.
This sort of 'to the ground!' thinking is why Freddy now sucks, rather than getting some more surgical nerfs.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886491#Comment_2886491
Even if the camping change comes, which will probably just be a nerf, Killers will just use the next best thing.
Bandaid fixes won't do anything. As long as BHVR doesn't change the core aspects of the game, those being Hooks and Generators, camping won't go away, nor will tunneling or "Gen-rushing"
Hooks and Generators need changes. Going for Hooks as a Killer is not worth it, as all 5 Generators can be finished before a Killer gets 1 Sacrifice if they spread Hooks, and having a Killer that goes for Sacrifices also doesn't feel good, as most teams crumble once the Killer finds and focuses on the weak link, usually not having time to finish all 5 Generators
Eh...I generally don't tunnel or camp unless it's that or lose. Mostly I try to at least spread the hooks around (although I'll certainly chase you if you run into me) and I do...okay. I'll totally agree that some maps (Eyrie, Badham, Mother's, Lodge etc.) are way too safe and if the survivors know what they're doing, you're going to struggle - especially on weaker killers.
Maps as a whole need a top-down rework. Safe pallets should be the exception, not the norm and silly vaults/100% safe vantage points with a gen on them need to not be a thing.
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886501#Comment_2886501
How? Really? As killer you at least get a bunch of points if they kill themself on first hook. What do survivors get if killers just wanna troll and open the gate as soon as possible? Points for maybe one Gen (isnt that much at all) and escape points. Thats it. Sums up to a depip and just wasted time. Thats just a chapter in the "101 on how to kill the game".
You can absolutely depip at Iri if multiple survivors suicide. Had to literally stop playing Hag and Cenobite during my final push due to people doing this. And that's assuming they suicide and don't just DC.
I'd be happy to grant some bonus grading in both scenarios.
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@NAERUUU said:
That’s gonna be really cool to see how changed legion, ghostface and haddonfield was :)
I’m exited as hell
We'll have to see. I'm not all that interested in Legion, but Ghosty...hopefully they've removed at least some of the jank.
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On Killer?
It's tricky, because the killer meta has probably never been as varied as it is right now. I will say that I'm having a lot of fun with CoB+Oppression (oh man does Oppression need a shorter cooldown...).
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@Tiufal said:
Cause it would make a match completely pointless.
How would this make a match 'pointless' in a way that someone suiciding on hook doesn't?
@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886447#Comment_2886447
That is a different kind of problem but I agree
It's pretty much the one time where I go 'holy crap I wish I could just end this'.
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@toxik_survivor said:
People hate a perk or were just destroyed by a killer or a swf team and then come one here and complain about it. The complaining part is fine, this is a forum, go ahead and list your opinion, but don't list your opinion based off of 1 match or 1 very skilled meg that ran you the whole game.
For instance DH... Yes it's very powerful and it needs a nerf but many killer mains hate it so much they provide terrible nerfs for the perk that just absolutly nerf it to the ground and make it a useless perk, when you can nerf it a little bit and make it an average perk.
For instance, freddy. Freddy was really good, and imo he was fine, but many survivors that disliked him asked for a nerf because people just weren't good against him, and now look at him. He's the most boring killer in the game. (After forever freddy was fixed)
Just cause you love a killer dosnt mean they should be buffed into the heavens or just cause you hate a perk dosnt mean it needs to be nerfed to hell. You get facecamped by a huntress and people come on here and say she's "op," you get jebaited by Dance with Me and people are like "too op please nerf." Liker seriously I saw some posts saying DWM is too op like cmon guys.
Overall this bias is popping up towards coh and dh the most, where I fear that the perks will be nerfed to the ground because of bias people, when they could just get nerfed a little bit to where they are still fun and useful to use. Just think of deathslinger. People got demolished by good deathslingers and cried about him being to OP when he wasn't, and he got slaughtered with nerfs and isnt as fun any more.
Sure. But there is a reason for that bias - and that reason generally comes down to 'feel'. Feel can be as importance as balance sometimes.
DH 'feels' bad, because it'll often completely deny you hits that you earned.
CoH 'feels' bad, because you can site it in places where it's time consuming to snuff and covers 2/3 of a map (RPD library, Eyrie main structure etc.).
Trickster isn't a strong killer but feels annoying as hell to play against (ditto Doctor).
This can also work the other way. Twins are a decent killer but feel horrible to play.
@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886411#Comment_2886411
I can agree with this.
I think there's naturally a lot of bias towards the side you prefer to play as, and yes it does affect players feedback. However, we're also very aware of that when we make changes and so many factors are taken into consideration when any change is made to a perk or a power for example. Feedback is important and understanding where that feedback comes from is also important and something we have to consider.
I think that where a lot of bad blood comes from is when something gets nerfed in a way that doesn't simply 'balance' it, but removes a lot of the fun and variety from that thing. Freddy would be my best example - he went from probably too strong (but really fun) to feeling awful and being very mediocre. His addons now, for the most part, may as well not even exist.
People look at things like this and go 'well, I need to be as vocal as I can be to prevent any nerfs, because if that thing that I love gets nerfed, it's going to go too far, and hit it right in the fun'. And feedback turns into a nest of whataboutisms and twisty justifications.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Bias is a big problem when it comes to DBD, but there's no way to stop that. You have 2 polar opposites with completely different problems that the either side just can't see unless they play the other side, which most people don't
Mm. I'm going out of my way for a while to play a lot of survivor. I'm curious as to whether this will change my opinion on anything - I will say that man oh man that camping change needs to happen ASAP.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
What's with the Hag pfp?
I'm not sure I'll be able to participate, due to me not being able to play DbD for this week and the next one
Just thought it was time for a change :)
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@BenZ0 said:
Since we have more hackers in dbd then Killer mains why not reducing our suffering abit by giving us also the choice to end the game as fast as possible?
Sure there might be ppl who may give up cuz they got their down after 3 gens and they think the game is over but we all know that hackers are since this year a huge problem.
BHVR pls atleast dont let us waste our time in a game you cannot win anyway, I would like to just move on to my next game without having to play the ENTIRE game through knowing I cant do anything against those ppl.
My name is Starlost and I endorse this post.
My last game of the night...had a duo SWF that, when they started losing, decided to play hide-and-seek on Eyrie - just going from locker to locker, occasionally creeping out to touch a gen, avoiding AFK crows. Took me forever to find them. So bloody annoying that survivors can stall the game out like that out of sheer BM.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886114#Comment_2886114
You know the cheaters will just hold you hostage until 2 hours after EGC has counted down so it won't make any difference, right?
@Satelit said:
Starting the endgame won't even save you from hackers
Sure. But it will save you from the hide-and-seekers and the forever squads.
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@Khelendrose2020 said:
I've seen many of these polls over the years. They all asked promising questions. Few, if any, related changes came from it.
As fo MMR, I personally think the older system was better. Matches varied between sweaty and casual. Now it's just sweaty. Both systems are easily games to lower rank/MMR, so that does not matter. Heck, MMR is easier and more rewarding to lower. Just 2 hook and let everyone go, or finish gens and refuse to leave. You would have to afk in the old system and get less than 2k bp.
I think any MMR system should weigh several aspects of the game, including your devotion level.
The problem was that while your matches varied between sweaty and casual, your 'casual' games were probably very sweaty for the other players involved.
Smurfing was so easy under ranks that even Fog Whisperers openly admitted to doing it. Yes, you can smurf under ranks - but as every killer has their own MMR, it's pretty time consuming and you'll struggle to get Iri 1.
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@dugman said:
I've never had a problem with MMR, when everybody's MMR is in the same ballpark it's a close match. The main issues have always been the matchmaking system itself trying to balance "close MMR brackets" with "quick queue times", and also the possibility it doesn't make good estimates for the net MMR of groups of survivors when they vary (e.g. a high rated player in a swf with a low rated friend, it's quite possible if the system is just taking an average of the two that could be a poor estimate.)
As far as these recent tests, I'm sure they're getting good statistical data. How useful the "feedback" is, though? 🤷♂️ Part of the problem is nobody actually knows what their or their opponent's MMRs are, so there's no way to tell when there seems to be a mismatch in skill level in the players if it's an actual gap in the hidden MMR ratings, or if it's someone who is significantly underperforming or overperforming compared to their assigned MMR, or if it's a case of a backfill in a lobby or a swf, etc.
And honestly the bulk of what they'd probably find useful would be in the data. Like looking at actual queue time statistics, pivoting out how often specific individual players randomly get assigned to the same match (which could be a sign the brackets are too tight), and variance in the kill rates at very loose matchmaking versus very tight matchmaking. All of that is probably good data they'll be able to collect from these tests and none of it would be from player comments.
To be fair, some people are taking the survey very seriously, tracking all their games and posting as much information as they can write down which I'm sure is really appreciated by the devs. 🙂 Me, though, I play one or two matches a night, I have no idea what my MMR is on any of the killers, and I have no idea half the time if me winning or losing had anything to do with matchmaking in the first place versus me just having a good or bad night at the controls. So if they do manage to cull anything useful out of the forum posts, great! But I'm betting the really useful part will be the behind the scenes data collection.
MMR makes veteran games much sweatier - which should be expected.
MMR also (when it works properly) makes intermediate/newbie games so, so much better.
I still have flashbacks to when I started playing - heyday of ranks and killers had just had their matchmaking protections removed entirely. Game after game of smurfing 3-4man SWFs who ran rings around me and were as BM as anything.
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@SS007 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y6TS2MX48H81/1.png
This is too much since today MMR is too difficult for killers I only got matched against 1% elite toxic bullies, I didn't win any matches at all. I'm barely new to this game but I have to go against pro survivors but that's not the problem I'd try to improve myself against such players but too many bullies when they're better than you.
This match for example played against ACE and another toxic Claudette basically the Ace is too fast dodged every hit and abuses every tile I manage to down everyone once but couldn't so he keeps clicking the flash light in my face over and over and over and over he kept spamming it every second and when ever he vaults or dodges something he teabags multiple times and does 360 rotations as a toxic gesture and the Claudette was his friend I had to protect one camp for at least getting 1 kill out of the match then they managed to open the game but instead of leaving they kept searching the map for me and clicked flashlights to my face and tea bagged and abused dead hard I can't remember how many hits were going to down them but they did use dead hard the second I hit anyone of this duo.
What makes it even worst I got flamed and made fun of in post game chat .
They kept taunting and used dead hard on the exit gate to teabag and escape in the last seconds so at least make some restrictions or fixes:
-Code it that flashlights can't be spammed that way tons of times in few seconds .
-I noticed every game that survivors will spam crouching after they open the gate so block the ability to crouch at the exit gates or something or rework the mechanics so it can't be used to bully others
-Fix the mmr so you don't get matched with survivors that played the game 10000 hours more than you did literally ? at least make it mixed 1 pro survivor 2 decent survivor 1 weak survivor .
-I had no pressure even if I injured everyone multiple times they had circle of healing and I got body blocked and hooks were sabotaged so please nerf COH
-Dead Hard is too unfair denies you a down and extends the chase much longer against good players and I can't count how many auto dead hard hacks I've gone against because it's impossible for a player to trigger it too many times that easy .
Flicky macros - yes. Absolutely. Get rid of them, they make my physically ill sometimes.
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@OpenX said:
I can't stand her without vile emantic or at least rubbing oil. The hit registration robbery happens a lot less with either of those addons.
Weirdly, my absolute favorite Plague addon is her brown tablet that allows you to basically perma-infect objects. I'd say I use it for about half my Plague games.
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@Bullettimegod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886015#Comment_2886015
Do you want some looping guides?
Sure.
@Heartbound said:
If you don't play both roles you're only playing half the game you paid for. With about half a decade of experience I can promise you I'm still terrible at both roles, so just have fun with it.
I'm a...decent killer, without any false modesty. If I'm on Hag, Artist, Demo or Plague I can usually hold my own.
I'm an awful, awful survivor.
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@Microchipd said:
I think everyone should do this at least once
I've tried it before.
It...didn't go well.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
It depends on how good they are. Most swf are garbagio to be real with you. I am scared of 4 competent survivors regardless of rank more than 4 clowns who are coordinating.
Here's the thing though.
4 competent survivors solo will be matched up against the same killer as the same 4 survivors playing a fully coordinated SWF together.
The 4 might be manageable alone. But together, they'll send that killer to Eyrie with 3 further hook offerings and make them want to uninstall.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
just played some plague games.
did not go well.
for some reason I was getting put up against back-to-back 4 streamer SWF sabo squads who were all moderately rude in the postgame chat.
I haven't played plague in forever.
pain.
I'm not even trying to vent or complain.
just feeling bleh about it.
There's something very odd about MMR, in that it seems to reset when you don't play killer for a while, and from what we know - it resets to just under the MMR of your best killer (ditto when you start learning a new killer). I'm not sure if this is just an urban legend, but anecdotally...my experiences bear this out.
I'll start learning a new killer, lose a fair bit, finally get to a sweet spot then don't play it for a while - and when I come back, I get drilled.
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@crimsonlungs said:
Every game I got iri or very strong addons, black incense plague and tampered timer crate of gears pig... today was definitely a sweat fest...
Interesting. I had one mismatched game, which was a very obviously smurfing Bubba (guy 4k'd within 6 minutes without camping, named something like 'MMRDroppin'(not his actual name, but similar). The rest felt...odd. Lots of AFK/botting killers, or killers that just never killed anyone. Very, very scary survivors.
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My guess? The Anniversary.
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@Gameavision said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/07IHGKORZCLB/why.png
Load into a game as Wraith for shenanigans, see we're getting sent to Badham, down someone in the first twenty seconds and plop them on a hook.
The next few moments are typical of your average game, getting in a chase, slapping people who want to loop. Y'know, fun stuff.
The hooked person immediately D/C's at 5 gens and all I can do is feel bad for the rest of the survivors who don't deserve an auto-loss, especially since one of them was pretty decent at looping. So I get everyone on death hook (for more BPs) and then leave them be, free to run out the gates.
We all dance in circles before the game ends and bid each other farewell, spamming bell and dropping items, with plenty of honorable nods on both sides.
I guessed that before the end-game screen popped up it was the disconnect that brought the offering, lo and behold I was right.
My only question, why is it always the offering users?
It's what's known as 'Otzdarva's Law'.
The person bringing the scummiest offerings, perks and addons will inevitably be the one who DCs on first down. It probably stems from performance anxiety.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2885876#Comment_2885876
Camera control is far more clunky & imprecise compared to other modern games that demand similar levels of precision, thanks to a bad response curve & no dead zone slider. It's unnecessarily difficult to translate basic FPS skill into DbD because it simply doesn't feel natural to rotate the camera & make minute adjustments needed to get the consistent skillful hits needed to separate the average from the great players, particularly on killers like Huntress, Nemesis, Artist, and especially Trickster, who along with Blight's initial coding problems, spurred me into calling out this issue. Playing killer on a controller is already a disadvantage in and of itself, but the disadvantage is amplified further by the piss-poor implementation of the controls.
They can absolutely fix it if they tried, but they seemingly have no desire to. Likely because they simply don't know how bad and amateurish it really is. Or they don't care enough and keep prioritizing other things, like tinkering with MMR 30,000 times.
@[Deleted User] said:
To put it in perspective, imagine every time you used your knives as Trickster you had to lift up and flick your mouse instead of sliding it back and forth with the occasional lift when you run out of mouse space, both to line up the shots and deal with the recoil. That's how much effort it feels you have to put in on controller. And not just with Trickster, but with every precision-based mechanic.
I swear to god even Elden Ring, a primarily singleplayer RPG action game experience, has better camera control than DbD, and that game barely requires precision outside of a few playstyles that are generally weak & underutilized anyway. It's a sick joke.
Interesting. I must say...I haven't really seen that, but (granted) I don't really play killers that require that - with the exception of maybe Doctor and Nemesis.
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@[Deleted User] said:
i'm so hellbent on controller changes that i don't think anything else will make me play this game consistently again. they can completely change the meta, nuke or perfect MMR, delete every cheater from existence, give everyone millions of bloodpoints & shards & auric cells, and none of it would matter because the game feels like ######### to play. like it was coded by a 5 year old.
also what pulsar said.
Really? I play on console from time to time at a mate's house, and the only thing I don't enjoy is the chain prompt on Cenobite and the vault prompt being the same button.
What's the issue?
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@danielmaster87 said:
It's always a waste of time. The devs don't really care what we think.
They very clearly do. Hell, a suggestion that I personally made was implemented, and it looks like another might be.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2884166#Comment_2884166
I always thought it was someone holding down a bicep
YES!
Literally what I always saw. Although...now that I think of it, I have no idea why.
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@SMitchell8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2885587#Comment_2885587
When was the last time you saw the ring in popular culture or on TV? When was the last time someone even mentioned the ring to you in conversation? It was a decent flik/concept like 15 years ago when I was at high school, but imo she's a b list horror icon with a b list character in the game. She didn't even come with a map. Im not a horror icon fanboy, but imo, the bigger names like Jason would be way more of a hit on here. FNAF would destroy the ring chapter on here for example.
Sadako herself? Seldom.
The iconic image design? Constantly. You only need to go shopping for Halloween decorations to see the familiar 'girl/long black hair over face/white dress' visual everywhere, right alongside zombies and skeletons.
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It does look neat, but what's going to determine my fun level isn't so much how it looks, but how it plays.
Eyrie makes me...leery. Such a gorgeous map, but I'd rather eat a kitten sundae than play killer on it again.
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@SMitchell8 said:
The ring was popular like 15 years ago, its not in with the times, for a starter its a video tape, not even a dvd or blu ray, yet alone netflix. Just not that popular a chapter imo.
Chucky
Pennywise
Jason
Fnaf
Would all be way bigger hits than the ring. Pinhead was the same, hadn't heard of it for 20 odd years and then all of a sudden, its in dbd
Huh.
I'd...totally disagree here.
Jason is iconic, but also sort of boring. Chucky would be fun, but who knows what's going on with that copyright? Fnaf...somewhat inevitable, but I think you overestimate how many people are familiar with the franchise compared to say Scream or Ringu.
Pennywise...cool, but we've already got a scary clown.
Hellraiser is a horror icon, as is Sadako. Even people who haven't heard of the movies will immediately recognize the spoopy girl with the hair over her face as a trope.
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@Sir_Kazi said:
Everyone DCs or suicide when Nurse is killer. I'm iridescent 3 and every game, someone just runs up to her, drops their item and follows her until she kills them. Is she this broken? I struggle juking her but I try to have fun with it. Does no body want to work to win anymore?
It's not because she's OP (she's very strong, but I don't see this much against Blight or Huntress).
Sadly, there are just a few killers that survivors hate playing against. Cenobite, Hag, Plague, Nurse and Doctor are the first ones that come to mind.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2885556#Comment_2885556
its suppose to critic how everyone in this damn forums these days just want to nerf everything, even things that are dare i say "balanced"
Pigs go 'oink'.
Cows go 'moo'.
Players in PvP games go 'things aren't balanced'.
That's just the nature of the beast.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
Bots in game, im not looking forward to. They can't even get zombie AI to function right and get proper pathing, theres no way they can fully code a killer to be worth facing in case of a DC, nor a survivor.
Zombies are zombies. I think they're designed to be deliberately derpy.
The training AI is...promising, at least. AI killer I can take or leave, but I really loathe it when a survivor DCs early - especially if I'm trying to finish getting to Iri 1.
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@AcelynnBen said:
They just want everything nerfed
Nurse : NERFED
Blight : NERFED
Spirit : NERFED
Trapper : MAKE IT SO HE CAN"T PUT TRAPS NEAR SHACK
flashlights : BLIND BOTH SIDES
Fang : REDUCE HER SCREAM TO -0000%
ACE : WHO?
Twins : NER-
ENITITY : NERFED
BEHAVIOR : NERFED
DEAD HARD : N- (sorry im not allowed to say that according to every entitled proud survivor main)
how about we just delete the whole game and call it a day
Look sure there are somethings that need a buff and need a nerf if not a whole rework BUT THOSE AREN"T EVERYTHING
does anyone even ask for buffs for perks that aren't META or so annoying for both sides?
How about we buff BabySitter or maybe Dying Light, you know something that actually helps survivors and killers and its not crutch or complete and utter bullsh*t
To answer your question:
Yes, people often suggest buffs to things.
Also: I don't understand about half of your post. I'm not sure if you're trying to be humorous and I'm just tired, but I really have no idea.
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@The_Krapper said:
To be 100 percent honest, I could see Noed every game and it not bother me it's not a strong perk, most complaining about Noed is from someone who got camped in the endgame while their team either just leaves them or doesn't go for the totem to even try
I've found leaving to be the best option.
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@Pulsar said:
They've been asking the right questions for years.
Whether or not they will come to a sensible conclusion remains to be seen.
@AGM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2885512#Comment_2885512
They always ask the right questions. But then barely anything comes of it. I'm not hopeful.
We'll have to see I guess. Maybe I'm not quite old and jaded enough to be completely out-of-hope for positive changes.
I am starting to play less and less these days though - making it the first time that I've basically been done for a while this soon after a new killer.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Now people realized NOED is stronger when you play it with slow-down perks.
I am seeing more killers using NOED with Corrupt, DMS, PR, Pop, Deadlock etc. It is more stronger with this builds.
We know CoH will get nerf. We know BHVR is looking Dead Hard, all good changes. But we have another unhealthy perk, known as NOED. But no news for this perk sadly.
I'd be happy to see NOED get reworked - it's a perk that I almost never run, as it can be completely useless or turn a 1k into a 4k.
That said - I think the devs have higher priority fixes right now.
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@Advorsus said:
Yes, I think it was in terms of how they expected it to do vs how it actually did.
This is for a couple of reasons.
1. Bad timing for this type of killer. With the healing meta the way it is and current matchmaking issues, this title was never gonna be enough to actually bring people back in.
2. Underwhelming survivor and killer with underwhelming perks. Until the current meta is brought in line with other perks all newly released perks are gonna seem underwhelming. Unless they release something completely busted again which doesn't solve any issues, as seen recently.
3. The main draw to the title was the killer and the psychological aspect of her power that we were promised. What we were given though is an extremely underwhelming killer that has an easy to learn, hard to master power with very little payoff in the end.
If you look at other killers like blight, nurse, spirit, their powers are also pretty easy to learn but hard to master. But the payoff for mastering them is massive, and it's why they always sit at the top. However with sadako, even if you master every bit of her, her payoff is very small in comparison to most other killers due to the nature of her power. The psychological aspect we were promised was a very easy to learn mechanic that survivors already figured out and knew how to easily counter it before it ever got out of ptb.
Overall it was a release I was hoping wouldn't be underwhelming, but not surprised that it was sadly.
Her kit makes me wonder if this was a case of 'holy crap, we're out of time - let's just release the slapped together abomination that is Sadako and fix her in a year or two'. It's just a mess - two of the three aspects (stealth and condemn) are borderline useless and her TVs, while cool, are so RNG and so easy to deal with that...well, the more I play her, the worse she seems.
She also has an annoying 'x factor', in that her camera is so stupidly low that at best I'm struggling to see through grass and over loops, and at worst makes me motion sick. Blight released in a similar state and you'd think that the devs would have learned their lesson then.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I need everyone’s opinion on this cause this is kind of tricky. Do you think the Ringu Chapter Flopped or didn’t? I think it did cause everyone has stopped talking about Sadako and her impact isn’t as big as Michael Freddy, PH or nemesis.
the fact that the player count didn’t even go up on a LICENSED character, and that no one is talking about her anymore. I need your opinions
Yes!
About the biggest change was the addition of CoB (allows for a solid kicky style).
The survivor perks are a nothingburger.
Onryo...may be the most disappointed I've been with a killer since I can remember.
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@[Deleted User] said:
There is no SWF problem in DbD. It's a matchmaking issue if a killer is completely overmatched.
Yes and no.
The issue is that a killer is matched correctly against a bunch of people at 1350 MMR (hypothetical). They're all solo players, and the match is pretty even.
Then the killer is matched against the same survivors, at the same MMR, but now they have the advantage of coordinating perks, addons, map offering, sharing information, coordinating unhooks and sabos and all that horrible stuff. Now the killer gets stomped, despite being at the 'right' MMR.
The issue is that the MMR system does not account for premades, which a lot of other games do better.
@Tiufal said:
There is absolutely no reasons for any change regarding the group size. Stop blaming SWF for every loss.
SWF does not need any changes.
The game as a whole needs to change to account for SWF. Solos need better means to communicate, SWFs need a temporary matchmaking adjustement and the majority of killers need a hefty buff to compensate. Let's do that and see where we land.
@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883170#Comment_2883170
then most killers would dodge SWF is the dev cashcow.
And...if they do, then doesn't that indicate that SWF is a problem?
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@GannTM said:
Oh god please don’t make Dried Cherry Blossom basekit. Her fun factor would be ruined with that. I think just directly nerfing Iron Will would be a way better decision.
This. On one hand, making a purple baseline on an already decent killer would be a little silly.
On the other hand, it's no fun having your killer hard countered by a single perk.