StarLost
StarLost
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360264/5-best-designed-killers-in-the-game
- Wesker
- Old billy (remove overheat mechanic FFS)
- Pinhead
- Pre-nerf freddy
- Blight
Prenerf Freddy was a...bit much. The problem is that rather than nerfing, say, his more obnoxious addons, they completely gutted him from top to bottom, so that while he may not be the worst killer in the game, he's probably the most boring. And I haven't faced one since the start of December.
Blight is a fantastically made killer, but a handful of his addons are a little silly.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312587#Comment_3312587
I'm still pissed skybilly got demolished
Billy reminded me of what Demo was before...whatever happened to him happened (honestly, still not sure - he was fine, now he struggles). Every single one you faced was completely different, and there was always some completely insane thing that would happen.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312599#Comment_3312599
Argh! Don't get me started on the new map, Shattered Square. I can't even see scratch marks clearly enough on it to follow them, plus all the pallets and window vaults. Really, in my mind, most maps are a bit heavy on pallets and vaults, which activate certain speed perks.
Eh...there are some maps that are tough and some maps that are fine.
That said - you'll adapt.
(Yes, I did a thing there).
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@Raccoon said:
It doesn't really impact my own Survivor games, but anecdotal experience aside, I think knocking the Incapacitated tiers down to 8/10/12s would be fair.
What do YOU think?
>:3
No...because it's only really a problem against solos.
What should happen is Eruption being reworked a bit to either make it easier for solos to deal with (working on hook not down) or blocking gens rather than incap, so people don't stand around doing nothing for 30 seconds.
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Most definitely. Its so unfair to be forced to do nothing for nearly 30 seconds just because one of your team mates went down.
And because they didn't call it out over vc, and you didn't let go.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
I think Eruption just needs to lose Incapacitated, save that status exclusively for Twins like Doctor and Madness, and give it something else. Something still useful that doesn't lock people out of playing the video game for 25 seconds.
Make it block gens instead. This lets it retain it's character and flavor, but less annoyingly (and maybe reduces it's synergy with other perks like PR).
@Veinslay said:
Putting aside whether the perk needs to be nerfed or not, I'm not a fan of the argument that it needs to be nerfed because of the incapacitated status effect. I don't care if not being able to do anything except unhook and run is "boring" or "unfun" for the survivor. Killer gameplay involves getting stunned constantly over and over during a trial. Victor eats a DS every time he gets a down, it takes forever to ADS as Deathslinger, Pyramid Head's power is intentionally made clunky and slow as hell, Blast Mine stun lasts forever, Wraith gets stunned for an eternity getting hit by a pallet when cloaked or getting lightburned, Trickster takes 8,000 years to put his knives away and kick a pallet and the survivor is halfway across the map as a result. Finally, add up all the time the killer has to spend doing nothing while they wait out stupid ass Dead Hard
The incap is what people are complaining about, so I'd see that changed - if only because it feels good to be right, and it wouldn't stop these threads at all.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312586#Comment_3312586
Did you read the original post? If not, you're lost. If so, you're still lost.
I did. I'm a killer main.
Oh the survivor end of things? Eh...combinations of perks, but you really need SWF to pull it off. And SWF is the gigantic incontinent elephant in the room.
But the only really broken thing that cuts against killers that isn't in some way connected to SWFs are the maps. And somehow, every new one released is nastier for killers.
Borgo has insane pallet density for a map that enormous and often basically plays itself, and Garden of Joy has an actual sodding infinite.
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@NerfDHalready said:
this post is a bit rant-y and i'm sorry about that, just wondering how many people would agree and are having issues with this. before i start i want it to be removed as a survivor player. as a killer i honestly don't care, it's only 2,5k deviousness points which i most of the time have maxed beforehand anyway.
i understand that it leads to cute killer survivor interactions or clutch escape moments, but some survivors are playing for this pity win mechanic from literally the beginning of the match, and an annoying amount of them do after they see things "go south". they should realize that in order to win they need to be useful to the team, doing gens and saving people instead of letting multiple survivors die on hooks. they need to play the game to win. not much to ask i think. i'm just so sick and tired of having a teammate have 1/3 of my points when i die because all they did was hide the whole match. in one match i saw that rat feng hiding in nowhere so i joined. the killer found her and killed her then i got hatch but it felt so pathetic. i had to waste my and the killer's time for literally no reason. ugh
Nah.
Hatch used to be a problem, but now it's just an extra chance for the last survivor to get out.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312523#Comment_3312523
He was well designed in the past. I'm still kinda clinging on to old Billiam honestly. I'm technically coping hard atm
Oh yeah, old Billy was awesome. Just...so many crazy moments, especially skybilly.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
Hello, my killer friends! Survivors need not reply or be involved in this discussion. Who else is tired of some of the broken parts of this game which give survivors a million chances to escape? I'm talking about busted mechanics, like a survivor simply needing to spin and can't be hit easily, or all the second chance perks like adrenaline, allowing survivors to pick themselves up off the ground. Who here loves flashlights? I certainly don't. Especially when a team of them is against you, guaranteed bully squad. What about med kits and CoH boons?
Killers, tell me what you think is busted about this game!
Honestly?
Facecamping on Bubba, Ghostface, IT3 Myers etc.
A lot of folks are wobbly about Eruption at the moment, but that's only really busted against solos.
Uh...Blight with his nuttier addons?
Honestly, nothing much comes to mind.
Well, one thing comes to mind, but there's no way I'm sharing that one.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312556#Comment_3312556
And fixing it with perks would have to be some really nice perks.
Yeah, again - it has to do with the way the game works unfortunately. I can think of a few ways to fix camping and slugging, but not tunneling so much.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312521#Comment_3312521
And healing from slugging actually gives you a decent amount of altruism, even if it is Detrimental to yourself because then you gain a stack
You'd think so, but...not especially. Healing overall doesn't give much altruism unless you're getting a bunch off all game. Which this style makes very dangerous.
For some reason, the primary source of altruism is protection hits and unhooks - which is why there's so often a 3 Stooges reenactment at the hook.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
Sometimes tunnelling is necessary I get it, I don’t like to do it but if all gens are done or the last one is about to pop any second and I need someone dead ASAP then sometimes you have no choice
But proxy camping then tunnelling someone right off the bat, when no gens have even been completed yet is where I draw the line
The big problem is how efficient this is, technically speaking it’s the most efficient way to play killer, make the game 3v1 as soon as possible, so how do we fix that?
Add incentives for the killer not to tunnel? Add buffs to the recently unhooked survivor to make tunnelling harder? Revert the DS nerf? Make ‘Off The Record’ base kit? There’s countless possibilities that could be implemented and I really hope something gets done soon.
It's an unfortunate situation, but I...have no idea how to fix this without completely pooping the sheets balance wise.
The best I can think of is adding perks that incentivize the killer to attack people who haven't just been unhooked - but then you get the problem of survivors hard countering it by trying to force the killer to hit them.
OTR isn't the way - it's already a problem perk, because the weaker killers get smoked by it, as it gives a free bodyblock 3 years from when the unhook happened. The problem with tunneling is:
- Some killers can glitch it out or bypass endurance completely. Clown with his bottles (a direct hit cancels endurance for some unknown reason), PH has some shenanigans with Tormented and others are just too fast for the person to escape.
- It's not enough of a deterrent, as a sufficiently determined killer just won't stop chasing. It may make the game easier for everyone else to win, but it's no less miserable for that person unless they were really looking to practice their looping today while also depipping.
Really not sure what more can be accomplished here without completely changing the way the game works.
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@AverageKateMain said:
Well I'd say the 5 best designed is Wesker, Blight, Billiam the 3rd, Pinman, and Huntretta.
2 of them are simple and strong. Huntress with her hatchets and skill curve and Billy with chainsaw and curve potential. Well Billiam isn't as strong these days but yeah.
The others are more complex with the abilities. Pinhead requires you to not sleep the game away and actually pay attention and interact with the map. Blight is simple but tricky. He has so much mobility and actually has a skill ceiling that seems rewarding. And Wesker has it all. Chase power that also is mobility, passive slowdown that actually has meaning to it, a counter that doesn't cuck him hard, and is attractive so yeah
I definitely wouldn't call Billy a well designed killer. He basically plays like a neutered Oni.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310081#Comment_3310081
Really? Honestly I wouldn't mind going against a condemn only sadako, it would be a nice change of pace of the usual hook killers
And you only depip if she kills you fast, if she is not hooking then the game should be able to go on for a bit unless nobody uses the tapes and therefore you would actually be able to pip
I also don't find it miserable to use either lol
It depends what grade you are at and what she's actually doing. The main issue with the condemned build is you get zero unhooks and very few chases if she's doing it right. Basically just slug, burn TVs, slug, Burn TVs until someone pops.
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@realflashboss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310558#Comment_3310558
3 examples of awful games for you... out of how many other games that were the total opposite to this? Need context.
What do you mean 'total opposite'?
There's no whataboutism possible here, mate. I'm saying that killers need to go in anticipating that it might be this sort of nasty squad - otherwise, if they do run into one, they may as well just take the L.
@realflashboss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311269#Comment_3311269
Not one single statistic released in the past 3 years backs up claims that survivors on the whole have ever had it easier (i.e. escapes outnumbering kills).
There have been no stats released over the years that accurately capture how the game plays out on the ground either.
I mean - I'd reckon that, if you also account for suicides and AFKs, SWFs have maybe a 20% higher escape rate.
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Huh.
That's...certainly odd.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311378#Comment_3311378
It doesn't happen like that everytime
No.
Sometimes it's much, much faster.
You get a SWF that runs Hyperfocus/Stakeout/Fogwise/PTS with 3x BNPs and send you to The Game, and you literally cannot hook and kill them fast enough.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312069#Comment_3312069
- The goal isn't to hit end timer though? Just to outlive the other survivor so you can get hatch or doors. Like your entire point here just seems like trying to argue in bad faith and assuming the survivors are trying to grief rather than just trying to win. Also again if the killer can't find anyone in that time that's on them.
- With how poorly basekit unbreakable was received there's no guarantee we will get it in any form and BHVR has said as much so this is just you spreading misinformation. "Shortly" is relative and again not a reason for one side to throw the game.
- but if there's 3 people and 2-3 gens that's not a reason to DC? Like that's difficult but still winnable so I don't understand what you're talking about. Granted some people will still DC in that situation cuz RIP soloQ but a new mechanic would not change those numbers much. 3 survivors is still better than 2 survivors with faster repair speed depending on what the number is. So I don't know where you think this will encourage people to DC or how that guarantees escapes.
- You won't find them. That's the goal. They won't have AFK crows, and will be in a random locker at a random point on Asylum, or hiding in a bush, almost invisible. And it's almost always done as a duo - not to sacrifice someone else, but to stall the game out. Once again - no idea why you are defending this crap. It's obnoxious to play against and really just wastes everyone's time.
- Shrug. Mandy literally replied to me as I was responding to you, which is why I edited. Unfortunately, time is linear. Regardless, it's definitely on their radar. And again - 4 minutes is not 30 minutes.
- Eh. Think of it like this. 3 people remain at 2 gens, with 1 survivor on each gen and the killer chasing the third. Currently, the third gets downed, hooked and then the killer might have time to push one of them off the gen, or they'll come for the unhook. Under your proposed buff, that third survivor could DC after being picked up, which would guarantee that the other two would finish their gens (50% is absurd).
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@sanees said:
This should at least be relatively balanced (let's do without adding 10000 generators or 9999 lives for survivors)
killers: since 99% of totem perks are weak and destroyed in the first second of the match, the killer will have an additional perk slot exclusively for the totem
the survivor can get up if he lies on the ground for more than a minute, it will help against the slug
but this does not depend on perks and works separately from the rise scale, so it will not be possible to abuse this with the help of quick rise perks
Honestly, all I want for killer is a change to AFK crows so people can't drag out games for 20 minutes by playing hide and seek while doing a few simple tricks to never get them.
For survivor? Remove self unhooks completely outside of deliverance. Rework perks as needed.
For both sides? Survivors that DC or get 3 AFK crows are replaced by a bot (and the latter also gets the DC timer). DC timer only decays when you finish games without DCing.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311988#Comment_3311988
With regards to your last paragraph - this isn't something we actually said. I believe what you are referring to is the recent PTB where we tested the Finisher Mori, which I will emphasis was just an early prototype and none of what was tested is confirmed to come to the game at all.
I was referring to the baseline unbreakable thing and the finisher mori, yeah. But ah, okay. I thought that the change was confirmed and you were just testing ideas on how to best implement it.
But while we have you here, Mandy - are there any plans to look into the...increasingly common situation described here, where the final two survivors essentially just play hide and seek while avoiding AFK crows? It's obnoxious to play against and can stall the game out nearly forever if they do it right, especially on larger maps.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311978#Comment_3311978
- The goal is not to make the killer DC it's to survive which is the objective of the survivor. If the killer can't find either of them that's on them.
- It's not that uncommon with how often tunneling happens usually someone will be dead with someone else not having been hooked yet. Again it's 4 minutes minimum in that situation and if the killer is fine dragging things out for a 4k they should be fine with survivors dragging things out to survive. To suggest only one's sides objective is valid and the other side must cave to it if they're behind is ridiculous.
- I mean agreed but I don't even think it would lead to anymore DCs as games are still very winnable with 3 people most times.
- Yeah, it absolutely is. What else would the purpose of hiding and avoiding AFK crows for 30 minutes be? You're not going to survive if the end timer hits, you're just making it impossible for the game to progress, wasting the killer's time to try and make them DC - because there's literally no way for them to end the game. Really not sure why you're defending this - it's basically like saying 'well, walling a survivor in so they can't do anything is trying to win, so it's fine' or 'using level geometry to make yourself unhittable is perfectly okay because it's letting you survive'.
- No, that's just BM. The game will end shortly. Also - it's going to be changed. While we don't know the exact form this will take, BHVR are definitely looking into it. Also also - whataboutism.
- Hahaha what? No, they absolutely aren't. If the killer is playing to win, someone DCing before like...2 gens is an autoloss unless matchmaking pooped the sheets.
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@brokedownpalace said:
Demogorgon, Artist, Nemesis, Oni, and Pyramid Head are some of my favorites. Not that they are flawless but they are the killers I enjoy the most. I actually love playing as Wraith, but not a fan of playing against his hit and run strategy so I didn't include him.
Can't stand Legion, Plague, Sadako and Twins. And while I think Nurse is well designed.. she's well designed for a single player or killer vs killer game.
Wraith is...yeah. Streaky. Get the right map and average survivors, and you can do well. Get the wrong map and a decent SWF, and he feels completely useless.
The big problem with Wraith is that he lacks pressure.
Demo...love him, love his kit but I'm not sure what happened in the 6.1.0 patch - it feels like shred didn't get the buff to hit recovery, and it's just so punishing to use.
Nemesis - he's fun, but also streaky. Zombie AI is still spectacularly broken, and some maps (swamp especially) cause them to constantly bug out and freeze. His addons are also craptacular.
Oni is one of four killers that I have yet to put time into learning. But playing against him, he either gets destroyed or hard tunnels someone out ASAP.
PH - amazing kit - but horrific, boring addons.
Sadako - I do okay as her, but facing her - she either gets wrecked or is running that obnoxious condemn build.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311693#Comment_3311693
It definitely does not do that.
I think, right now and not counting the issue I had yesterday, no more than 1 person has gotten out of the gates against me since the 15th, iirc.
Idk if other people share my experience but that's what i've got.
Mm, MMR starts to break down at the absolute highest levels of play - because they tweaked the cap, ironically due to super top tier players complaining that their games were too sweaty and long queue times.
For us intermediate folks though, it's been a godsend.
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@QueenCaspian said:
Hey everyone! I've been playing the game for around 3 years now and recently I've been playing games with much lower ranked players. It's getting to the point where I don't even want to play without friends as all the games end super quickly. Does anyone else have this?
Rank is meaningless now. Do you mean Prestige? That's also meaningless - I have a P55 Cheryl and I'm not a good survivor, but I routinely run into P10 survivors that spank me.
The only thing that matters for matchmaking is MMR, and nobody gets to see their MMR.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311991#Comment_3311991
Because it was missed from the patch notes. There's a few posts here and there in the PTB forum covering it.
it now also gives a survivor picked up from dying a 10% haste for 10 seconds.
Seems to be the change made
Ah...that's an interesting change. Thanks!
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@Peanits said:
It's normal for those bonuses to change over time, even throughout the day. Since it's heavily based on your region, it's not uncommon for there to be fewer survivors playing in off-peak times and instead waiting to group up with their friends after everyone gets home from work. This (among loads of different factors) can cause the incentives to shift at different times of the day. If there's fewer survivors during the day, they'll likely have an incentive. Meanwhile if a bunch of people group up and play survivor with their friends at night, the could leave killer with an incentive.
That's just one of many things that could be affecting it, of course. There's loads of different factors which could cause the incentives to change.
Interesting - because for me it's essentially inverted. Peak - it's giving me a killer bonus. Offpeak - 100% survivor.
Was just checking in because until...maybe this week, it was almost never incentivizing killer. And now it's mostly killer.
Not going to complain, I'm raking in the BP with my remaining flans.
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@Rulebreaker said:
- Artist: fun to play and face as like nurse you have to be creative if you want to burn her time and can be creative to set up stylish downs. Map wide shots are also so satisfying, but we may be biased.
- Wesker: Aside from running into him 30 times, also fun to face (bull fight boss~) and fun to play (yeeting survivors just makes us smile)
- Huntress: Not counting the ones who keep throwing point blank, she's earned her spot here
- Blight: say what you will, but he is both fun to play and face (unless he's running what we call the basic ##### build). Bounce WAAAAAAGH bounce WAAAAAAGH hit.
- Nurse: similar to the above. Baring certain play styles, we enjoy facing her as we gotta be creative (or more chaotic) to keep the chase going. Being able to go through everything and surprising survivors (or just smacking down the ones who keep trying to abuse Myers house) is a joy.
This is our personal list
I also like facing Blight and Nurse...to an extent. Nurse should be a lot more manageable now. Blight needs an addon pass.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311980#Comment_3311980
PTB, since the new icons overlapped a lot with its role.
Huh. I must be going blind in my old age. Let me check the notes again.
EDIT: Nope, still not seeing it.
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@Erenior said:
had a match with a bubba facecamping the good ol' fashioned way. 1 gen short he got us all down (and the first triple hook guy was tunneld 2 minutes into the game, sadly). i was the last one he got down and he just watched me bleed to death.
i mean, cmon, is this a regular and allowed play?
its not about "get unbreakable"... he got nothing in terms of ingame value out of this.
Okay, so.
- That's not 'taking the game hostage'. It's just BM. Go grab a cup of coffee.
- Taking the game hostage is when survivors refuse to attempt the final gens and just hide around the map while avoiding crows, or when the killer physically bodyblocks someone into an area they can't escape. Basically - preventing the game from progressing or ending with the goal of forcing the other side to DC.
- BHVR have already said that slugging is going to get a baseline change - something along the lines of 'everyone has Unbreakable', but it's not something that can be done in a rush because it's going to dramatically effect the balance of the game - most of the time, slugging isn't done to be BM, it's done as a tactical decision. And the auto-mori change will completely prevent BM bleedouts too.
EDIT: Thanks Mandy - it seems that the slugging thing may not happen after all.
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@AverageAshEnjoyer said:
It's nice seeing an Ash perk finally get some love. But I think the healer should also get the 10% haste. Thoughts?
Where are you seeing changes to Buckle Up?
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311897#Comment_3311897
1. I'm talking about stealthing around not abusing the item glitch to avoid crows. The glitch should probably be patched out.
2. It's 4 minutes if the person hasn't been downed before and then it depends if the two people try to pick each other up. It is definitely not 1 or 2 minutes lol.
3. That's not a guaranteed escape and people already D/C like crazy so that wouldn't really be any different from what happens now.
- You can't really talk about playing hide and seek without talking about that exploit. Either way, it's completely different to slugging - because the goal of slugging is to kill everyone, while the goal of hide and seek is to try and force the killer to DC or AFK. And if it was easy to patch out, it probably would have been already. Again, hide and seek is more analogous to walling someone into the poop room on The Game.
- Yeah, that's a big if. But regardless, 4 minutes is not 20-30 minutes.
- Sure, but the last thing we need is more DCing.
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@HugTheHag said:
I'll preface this by saying that I haven't played all killers, only about 6 or 7 of them, with only 3 I play regularly (Hag, Legion, Ghostface).
So some of those will be from playing against them more than playing them.
1- Legion : They're just so fun to use !! I know people hate them, but for me there's nothing more pleasant than zooming around slashing and chaining. Their addons are cool as well.
2- Doctor : I've only played him a little yet, but he's my favourite killer to go against. I just think his kit is super cool, his addons are a mess to read but awesome (I love the fact that some affect the red stain, or make you hear the chase music outside of chase, it's like spicy undetectable).
3- Spirit : I've played her a little bit and plan on playing more of her, she is just really fun to use !
4- Hag : From playing her she feels a touch too clunky, too many counters to her ability and without it she is useless, but from a survivor perspective I appreciate that she is one of the few killers with actual counters. Still fun to use (for me), so she goes on the list.
Honorable mentions : I would have said Nemesis, as even with his issues he's really fun to play as and against (when not tunneling lol), but yeah, zombies AI, funky hitboxes and infection speedboost could take some loking at.
5- I think Pinhead. Never played him, often die to him, but he feels at a nice spot in terms of balance and probably fun to use !
I love playing Legion, but they can be miserable to face. People have twigged onto that their kit allows them to very easily tunnel and circumvent BT.
Doctor is...blaah. Interesting kit, but his shocks have a weird latency to them that make them incredibly unreliable.
I do love Hag.
Pinhead is another snowbally killer.
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@versacefeng said:
It is annoying and rare, but like you said you can report and get those survivors banned assuming you recently encountered people playing like this.
It's...not exactly rare.
There's a trick that's been around for a while that allows you to literally never get AFK crows. Somehow, this has finally caught on so I've had a few games recently where they've 3genned themselves, and the last two survivors will basically go and hide in a locker somewhere and attempt to stall out the game until I quit.
Technically against the rules, but I cannot even find an anecdotal example of someone being banned for this.
@Xendritch said:
1. It's not taking the game hostage it's literally the only viable move for survival if there's more than one gen left and it's a 2v1.
2. Killers drag games out all the time slugging for the 4k. I don't see how this is different.
I agree I'm not a fan of it occurring but BHVR should create a new mechanic for 2v1 situations. Hatch is too powerful with two survivors left in the sense 4ks would never happen but maybe give survivors a mini sole survivor where they do gens 50% faster so there's a chance doing gens is actually viable with two people? Maybe 50% isn't the number but could be tweaked until the right number is found.
- Yeah, it kind of is. You aren't trying to do gens. You're literally abusing a glitch to circumvent the AFK crows to stall the game out for 20-30 minutes in the hopes that the killer DCs. By this logic, walling someone in as killer is 'just trying to win'. I had a game on Myers where they literally 3genned themselves on Asylum (which...actually takes some doing) and after I killed the Dwight, an Ash and a Meg did this for about 25 minutes before we get the timer and they died. Postgame, literally: "Lol why do you need to win so badly, just let us do the gens or we hide". That's literally taking the game hostage.
- It's not even close to slugging for the 4k. That's annoying, but it ends within a minute or two. The AFK trick can go on until you hit the timer cap.
- The problem with adding mechanics like that is suddenly you make losing someone a powerful tactical decision - and you'll see situations where folks deliberately DC/suicide to give the other 2 a guaranteed escape.
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@HugTheHag said:
Your mmr as killer depends on how many survivors you manage to kill.
If you're killing 2, it's a draw, your mmr doesn't change. If you kill 3 or 4, it increases. If you kill 0 or 1, it decreases.
Given enough games with 1K or less, your mmr will eventually get back down to a level that's better suited for you to derust a little. =)
Yes and no.
It depends on who you get put up against.
Since the last MMR tweak, I've seen a lot of games where there's one absolutely cracked, 8000 hour monster and 3 400 hour intermediate players - assumedly trying to get a team with an average MMR close to mine.
Killing that 8000 player and one other will likely see my MMR go up.
@Katzengott said:
DBD - the only multiplayer game i know that punishes you really bad for winning.
And tbf, i think SBMM is never a good thing, in any multplayer game.
Huh. You aren't punished for winning. Playing against better players is neither a punishment nor a reward. It's just designed so that games are as close to fair as possible.
SBMM isn't perfect, but ranks (the previous system) was a million times worse. Pure, unadulterated chaos.
@Bravobro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311833#Comment_3311833
Sweat vs sweat is okay and If you Play every day IT IS perfct. but If you Play Not a Long Time and get rusty With a Long Penalty time to Go in Not sweaty Games. Or better you See IT and will Play nicer over the time, But you Play the next 100 Games for this goal vs Bully Simulator Teams. It IS a Nightmare.
It won't be 100 games.
If you're against a sweaty team - yeah, it can be obnoxious if you don't want to play sweaty. But just try and focus on practicing and getting better.
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@Omans said:
Wesker - fun to play as and against
Huntress - frustration from playing as her is due to current map creation, frustration from playing against her is slightly large hitboxes, but that doesn't take away from how fun it is to dodge hatchets well
Nurse - she has a great design. Too bad she is super OP. Hope this patch goes to fixing that.
Demo - simple, easy to understand. His addons and portals could use some QOL adjustments.
Dredge - if Wesker didn't come out right after Dredge I would have much more time on Dredge
Worst 5 (in no specific order):
Artist (Dead man's switch gameplay is so, so boring.
Knight - such a shame to make a killer like this after such a great killer like wesker
Trickster - enough said
Hag - boring to play as and against
honorable mention to Legion when they first came out (worst character design decision I've maybe ever seen).
Also, Cannibal is a great design, but he is still able to face camp with impunity, so until that changes he is down at the bottom
All of the above 5 worst killers have the potential to basically remove any interactivity between players.
Interesting. We see this game very differently.
I'd never describe Hag or Artist as boring to play against. Hags can be irritating when they just poop traps around hooks, but otherwise pretty damn fun. Artist - don't think I'm ever sad to see her. So much interesting play/counterplay.
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@Jensen said:
I often get written after a game from survivor that they are mad because i tunneled them. I realy dont understand why they are mad.
1.) If you are on hook stage 2, and still think its a smart idea to unhook your friends even when im closeby dont blame me.
2.) If noone of the other survivors bait me, why should i go for them, when you are close by?
3.) Survivors are doing everything to win, endurace perks, exhaustion perks, pallets, flashlights.... Why should the killer not do everything to win?
Somehow, some survivors think that there is a etiquette that killer should follow. Strangly there is no etiquette for Survivors....
It's...eh. Tricky.
Especially as I started survivor last year, I know how bloody miserable it can be to depip because someone stuck to you all game from word one. I feel a little gross doing that, especially when I see in postgame that they brought streamers and pretty chill perks.
On the other hand, with gen speeds honestly faster than they were before 6.1.0 at times (frigging stake out and hyperfocus man), if you play nice you could easily get destroyed.
I'll generally play hard from the start and if I'm stomping, I'll ease up, let them get some gens and heals then finish them.
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@HugTheHag said:
Do you decide who gets it throughout the game or is it just the last one alive ?
I tend to be very friendly as killer, some would say the 5th survivor, and I come across plenty of survivors who are either really cute (and I want to give them hatch), goofy (too fun to kill), or very cool/good (and I want to reward them).
Like I'll run into a game and see :
- A David messing with No Mither and using DH to dab around me more than to dodge hits. Maybe trying for adept, and it's a tough one ! (He actually was)
- A Cheryl happily crouching whenever I come near because she likes the chase music (fellow Legion main doing a survivor challenge)
- A Yui actually doing sabo saves and who's the most decent looper of the bunch (congrats to her !)
- (And then a random survivor who's not particularly noticeable in any way and who DC'd mid-match.)
Strong contenders all around !!
(In that particular game, we ended up just farming challenges and hiding in snowmen after the random DC'd, couldn't bring myself to kill any of them.)
Anyway.
How do y'all choose who to kill and who to spare ? =)
Usually, it's a decision of exclusion.
- Did anyone BM? Nobody gets hatch.
Aside from that:
- If someone is obviously trying to do an adept, I'll see if I can let them escape on 2 hooks.
- If someone is obviously the carry of the team, they'll get hatch.
- If there's an especially fun duo, they'll very occasionally get gate. Especially if they do something creative that makes me laugh.
- Rare survivors (Quentin, Jeff, Yoichi) will often get hatch.
- If it's a complete blowout game, but nobody DCs or quits, someone gets hatch.
- If it's a game with a quitter, but the other three stick it out, it could easily be 3 people getting an out at 2 hooks a piece, depending on where my grade is.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311575#Comment_3311575
I fail to see how this change would make it more common.
Because previously, you did adepts early on into the grade reset and if you 2 hooked everyone, you could squeak it out without killing everyone.
Now, DC and you 100% deny killers the adept.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311545#Comment_3311545
I guess so. Will many survivors pay attention to that and care so much that they'll DC? And even if some do.. they would have done the same thing when getting adept was harder.
As someone who took ages to do that Myers achievement...people don't need a reason to be nasty in this game. They just need an excuse.
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@Murgleïs said:
My top 5 :
5. Plague. Unfortunatly she has to get redpuke at a fountain, wish she could pop it anywhere on the map as long as it is available somewhere.
4. Dredge. But his tp is kinda slow and easy to counter.
3. Blight. Speed is always fun.
2. Nurse. Teleporting is ton of fun and she is one of the most unique killer of DBD.
1. Sadako. Again I love teleporting and mini mori is always satisfying. She is hard to play without good addons but you don't feel bad if you lose, she is a m1 killer after all.
Ah. That's interesting. I'd consider Sadako to be one of the worst in terms of design.
Like...I see where they wanted to go with her, but her TVs can be really RNG, her small size hurts her as much as it helps (grass basically becomes a cornfield) and her Condemned mechanic is just...that was never going to be balanced, and also causes both you and that survivor to automatically depip unless you go out of your way to two hook someone before killing them.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311526#Comment_3311526
I don't think too deeply about DBD, but Plague is about "macro gameplay" and most players (including myself) aren't good at that. As far as 4 escapes when playing Survivor, it's against Plague and Ghostface most often. It's not a coincidence. Ghostface can lose gens quickly and Plague can lose time trying to infect Survivors or getting her red puke. It's not surprising that Otzdarva likes playing her.
Ah, that makes a weird kind of sense - I prefer a tactical style, which is likely why I've mained Hag and Artist since forever.
The only thing that grinds my grapes on Plague is how bad the RNG can be on her fountain placement at times. One game, you'll win because they were all clustered around the gens and main structure. The next, you'll lose because there's one in each corner on Grim Pantry or Eyrie.
@Alcuin said:
- Nurse
- Artist
- Blight
- Twins
- Huntress
Spirit and Plague are strong, too. Maybe Artist isn't better than Blight but I'm betting if more people played her you'd see crazy win streaks on her.
Artist is held back by her addons. Her second best addon is a brown. Her iris are utter garbage. This also makes her a bit one dimensional.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311493#Comment_3311493
I'm more curious as to whether a DC will count as a kill
Peanits says "no":
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310714#Comment_3310714
:(
That's...oh man that's silly. Going to be endless 'lol no adept 4u' in postgame with folks deliberately DCing to deny the killer.
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Surprised at how many people still list Spirit here...she's far from a bad killer, but I'd hesitate to say top 5.
Also surprised at how many folks forget Plague. She's volatile, sure - but I think most of my 'wait, we were at 1gen with nobody dead, how did we get 4k'd?' moments are courtesy of the Vomit Comet.
Wesker and Artist...love them to bits.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311029#Comment_3311029
VHS balanced for tournament play it killed the game.
Sprit Detective/Soul Dossier balanced for top tier play 1 ghost vs 5 SWF on comms at top level, died, and dying.
HSHS balanced around SWF, survivors stopped playing now, game shutting down.
@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311037#Comment_3311037
VHS was having much deeper problems than balancing for competitive play. They were hacked numerous times. The other ones I am not as familiar with. Either way, most asyms are small, indie games. Those type of games don’t always last. I sincerely doubt it’s due to balancing issues.
Eh...VHS died the same death most MMOs did. World of Warcraft just has the establishment and years upon years of content and refinement.
Now, there may be a Final Fantasy-esque dark horse in the making (honestly, Evil Dead at a conceptual level is pretty damn close) but I'm dubious.
APvP is a niche.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309377#Comment_3309377
I mean speaking solely from my own experience I've never disliked getting sent to The Game. I usually do well there and I play mostly m1 killers. There's a lot of pallets but not really anything else for survivors.
There is one incredible vault that's pretty easily accessible. But it's more the sheer density of amazing pallets on a small map, meaning that it's bonkers strong for Stakeout.
@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309465#Comment_3309465
You mentioned it yourself, but the stats revealed that Sadako was tied for first as the deadliest Killer (tied for 4th in the top 5% of players). That doesn't mean that she won't receive any changes at all, but it certainly makes her less pressing. The other Killers you mentioned are similarly performing well or average, making them less of a priority.
Even still, this doesn't mean that they'll never receive some quality of life changes, but you have to consider what's more important: A slight quality of life change to a Killer that's already doing pretty well, or changes to a controversial Killer that gets discussed on a daily basis?
I'm curious as to how much of this kill rate comes down to either: '1 solo queue player didn't realize they started with a video' (I see this...almost every game someone brings this) or that obnoxious condemned build.
Because outside of this, there's no reason for Sadako's rates to be as high as they are.
That said...
@Th3Nightmare said:
I read the developer update and I laughed.
The Eyrie of Crows is NOT the only surviving sided map. They only named the map they were going to change, why don't they say more maps? To keep the community informed?
I will name: GARDEN OF JOY, Eyrie of Crows, GIDEON MEAT PLANT, SPRINGWOOD, HADDONFIELD, somes AUTOHAVEN MAPS, somes Mc MILLAN MAPS, and somes COLDWIND FARM MAPS.
I am surprised to see changes to the nurse and the knight that only 1 month has passed, since... other killers need it more than the knight: PIG, Sadako, FREDDY KRUEGER, the TWINS, Myers, and much more... all this seems unfortunate to me.
When are we going to expect changes in killers that really need it? The development and balance changes of this game are GOING very slow.
I don't think they said 'only'. And please, in the name of small fluffy kittens, let Garden of Joy be next. Or Badham.
Haddonfield is honestly okay now.
Killers that need love:
- Pig is fine.
- Sadako...yes, but she'll also need some nerfs to the condemned build.
- Freddy - yes. At least an addon pass.
- Twins - absolutely.
- Myers...yes, but nerf TSP.
- You forgot Trapper and Demo...as did BHVR.
Aside from that, there are some killers that need an addon pass but otherwise it's okay.
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@Blueberry said:
For me personally it’s always for survivor during the day and then switches to killer at night
Ah, interesting. It could well be when I play - I generally knock out games before work, to help me wake up. My wife calls it my 'daily rage coffee'.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
Now we're going to be forced to always 4k if we're going for merciless. I mean, I suppose it makes sense in the name, no mercy LOL but still, would be nice to have options for killers who aren't sweating for a 4k. If the match is over, I tend to not try to rub it in and just let the last survivor hatch.
True.
But I'm more curious as to whether a DC will count as a kill, because if not...oh man, it's going to be that frigging Myers achievement at a massive scale.
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@TigerSnake said:
I’ve noticed the exact same. When Project W dropped which is when the que incentives were working properly, survivor side almost always had a 100% bonus incentive to play except when closer to 8 pm CST when it would either switch over to killer and last there for a good 3-4 hours, or survivors’ que incentive would lower to 25 or 50%. As the months went on though, the time it would stay at killer would increase and it seemed to switch over to that role earlier especially on weekends. Now as for these days, 100% incentive for killer begins as early as 4 pm CST, and lasts nearly 12 hours where survivor will get the incentive again at 25 or 50% and it may fluctuate between the two. It’s actually been awhile since I’ve seen a 100% bonus on survivor last for long, as it’ll usually lower or switch to killer. I think the reasons would be that the hype for 6.1 died, and people realized that 6.1 wasn’t the massive killer sided update that ruined survivor, and also people getting tired of Wesker since he undoubtedly also raised the numbers of people playing killer.
Yeah, I'd be curious as to the why.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309738#Comment_3309738
SWF is not cheating, neither is using voice communication in game - please do not spread misinformation.
Giving Solo Survivor similar information to SWF is just bridging the gap slightly and a nice Quality of Live update for Solo Survivor which is unarguably seen as the more difficult role in the game right now.
True, but there's also a design problem here that I'm not sure has an easy fix.
Survivors can choose to play in SWF.
Killers cannot choose not to play against SWF.
You can't really buff solos in meaningful ways without also buffing SWF, and in the same vein, nerfing killer tools for the sake of solo feels a little unfair.
Really not sure what the solution is. Oh - maybe removing self unhooks completely outside of deliverance, so that every second game isn't an autoloss because someone suicided?
@Nihlus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311095#Comment_3311095
You would think the scream and 10% regression were punishment enough.
...Uh, no?
Keep in mind that it's a kick perk. So that's time already spent by the killer.
10% is nothing for something that a survivor is already on, unless it also blocks the gen in some fashion. It would have to be substantial regression.
@Rootlo said:
It dosent need a nerf. Survivors just got an unnecessary buff being closer to SWF. I play solo survivor and I love the no communication aspect of the game. Now im worried if we can see everything everyone is doing at all times its gonna make the game way easier.
Eh...
I'd hardly say unnecessary. Solo queue is miserable right now.
I don't want to see Eruption nerfed for the sake of solo queue, but part of that is on principle, because it seems that whenever a regression perk gets in front of the forum complain train, it gets Thana'd or...Ruined (bdum tish).
Two good suggestions from others:
- Make Eruption work on hook, rather than on down. This gives it a bit more counterplay for solos.
- Make Eruption block the gen rather than the incap, so people aren't useless for 30 seconds.
That said, there's a reason killers run deep regression now - between the new gen perks, folks twigging onto how strong some of the reworked ones are (cough Stakeout cough), gens feel faster now than they did in 6.1.0, and regression was nerfed overall. And killers...don't really have many universally decent chase perks.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309738#Comment_3309738
Funny.
Killer is stronger than its ever been.
Also, we're still stuck in the whole 2017 SWF is cheating thing?
I could swear we just did this one, with both of us on the opposite side. Did we convince each other we were wrong?
About two weeks ago, I'd have agreed with you. But suddenly, folks seem to have been leaning really hard into faster gens in SWF and it's insane how little time it takes. I've had matches where I got fast chases, fast downs - and still had all the gens finished before I was 6 hooks in.
@Dustin said:
I feel they didn't nerf Eruption because BHVR wants to gauge how people use the "I am being chased" UI widget they're adding and seeing if it becomes necessary to nerf the perk.
To be honest though while I'm assuming that's their reasoning I still feel the perk should have been scaled back a bit.
The core issue is that BHVR sadly...don't scale regression perks back a bit. They go at them with pliers and a blowtorch.
People have been making suggestions on how to make Eruption a bit less obnoxious for solos while also keeping the fun and unique nature of the perk, but...yeah, I'm not optimistic.
A big part of why killers run so much regression is because 1 regression perk...just isn't enough right now. Between Fogwise giving SWFs almost prenerf OoO levels of information and Hyperfocus/PTS/Stakeout just melting gens, if you aren't heavy into regression you can easily have games where a single bad chase loses you 3.
@th3syst3m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309941#Comment_3309941
There might be some truth to that. I feel killers who complain about windows are just very inexperienced and want a reason other than their own lack of skill why a team ran them so well. But I don't feel it's weak, it's a good info perk in solo to know what has been used and also a great perk for new players.
Yeah, the WoO thing feels more like 'well, they complain about whatever our most used perk is so turnabout is fair play', but...honestly, survivor would be nearly unplayable for me without it, because of my dark screen and the sheer amount of glare I have for most of the day. And how sodding difficult it can be to see on some maps.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311453#Comment_3311453
That's just not true, Pain Res is still very popular to just run on it's own.
Huh. I figured wrong. In my defense, this is what looking at web pages is on my screen right now.
Looking into it a bit I'm guessing it's part of the COB/Eruption combo, but that's actually interesting.
Regardless, my point is that the specific nerf I was responding to would junk Eruption completely, because it would basically be a much worse PR.
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@SweetTerror said:
For the last couple of weeks I've noticed it's been 100% on killer in the evenings (CST). Prior to the event it was 100% on survivor in the evenings, but lately I think this is showing just how few people are playing killer right now.
Not saying there's a reason for it, but If the incentives truly highlight the role that's needed most, then clearly no one's preferring to play killer much right now.
I wonder why.
Not being sarcastic - about the only thing that changed was Fogwise coming in and SWFs starting to gravitate to a heavy genrush meta again.