StarLost
StarLost
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@Mechanix82 said:
I cant barely stand it anymore with solo q its almost impossible to break with no communication. When killers just hold a three gen at the beginning of the game and my teammates just do all the outliyers and leave us to and unwinnable slug of a game lasting 30 minutes until we get tired and give up. Please bhvr gang it up!!!!
If he's camping a 3gen from the start, making no effort to chase or anything and just stalling the game out (Peanits gave the example of a Doctor who just shocks folks off gens) - that's a hostage situation, and worth reporting.
Because yeah, it sucks.
The problem is that:
A. Defending a 3gen is often one of the few routes to victory a killer has against a nasty SWF.
B. It's hard to know if you're against an SWF at the start.
C. By the time you've realized they aren't, it's too late - because now if you abandon that 3gen, you lose.
Sadly, this is a strategy that really requires coordination to beat. Potential Energy is the best anti 3gen perk in the game, closely followed by Deja Vu, but both really need a team behind them. But...this game cannot be balanced around solo players.
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@Halloulle said:
The thing is, while a killer can give the last surv an out without actually losing anything, a surv giving you a kill does lose something. In the 1v1 a killer and survivor have when it comes to match outcomes the hatch is neutral. Giving the kill is a loss for the survivor. The closest thing survs can do as a gesture of goodwill is getting hit and downed out the gate for the score events (and sacrificing their iri survival emblem in much the same way the killer sacrifices their iri emblem from the 4k upon giving hatch).
That being said, every now and again when I mess around as killer some survs refuse to leave. It happened most as M2 only zooming Billy I think. Had the cutest matching Jake and Kate in Cowboy -style outfits who absolutely refused to leave.
Vice versa once in a blue moon I feel really bad for a killer and sign them to put me on a hook. 99.9% seemed rather offended by the gesture promptly downed me and carried me all the way into the gate. At that point I figure I should respect the killers pride and crawl out instead of insisting on dying to egc.
Yeah that's the annoying thing. Too much of a survivor's grade and BP comes from escaping.
Like...I understand why it is, but I'll often give a killer a kill if I know I pipped and they had a really crap game.
@Pulsar said:
Never.
I would appreciate the gesture, but I wouldn't accept it. If I didn't get any Kills, I didn't deserve them.
Eh...to me it's showing respect. Like 'yeah, you got completely boned by this map but you played well, so I'll at least make sure you safety pip'.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Anything that isn't Borgo, please. At least on Garden I can see you.
Borgo is annoying at times (yeah, the visuals are pure wonk) but at least it doesn't have that hideous main structure with the potential infinite.
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@PokéMaster said:
A friend of mine is upset about the fact that killers can hit over the windows a little bit and they are not allowed to do that so I want to ask around what your opinion is about it?
Why would they be upset about it?
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It's...yeah.
It's fine if you've been playing a while, and it's better than it was.
But holy crap it's still no fun being a new player.
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@skylerbound said:
I think today was the day for me 0/10. I played during off hours, and every match I got a mix of newish teammates and/or killers prepped for a 4 man on comms sweat squad.
Today was not my day.
When my mates aren't online - yeah, I've had streaks like that.
@realflashboss said:
That's most days. Maybe not 0 escapes but around 1in 10 games is pretty common 😅.
It wouldn't feel so bad if bad games or no escape still equalled decent blood points on survivor but you also get next to nothing.
I can go AFK as killer and get more BP than some survivor games where you actually try!
This is the core issue. Unless I get absolutely skunked, I can generally get 20k on killer.
Survivor...sometimes I'll get 20k on a win.
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@solarjin1 said:
Assuming eyrie not so survivor sides anymore! which map offering u burning now????? I'm feeling the new Borgo map myself. Solid loops, good line of sight, and all three chests spawn in main building (basement, upstairs by the gen, one in the hut on the side of main building)
Garden of Joy. The main structure can form a no-kidding infinite if you abuse the vaults right.
No idea how this made it out of testing, it's worse than the old Haddonfield.
Also, Badham.
@jajay119 said:
The borgo has good solid loops? Can someone show me where please?
The raised central structure with the gen up top is nasty. Strong vaults, high visibility.
But Borgo is more about the sheer density of loops and pallets - you can go from one to the next to the next for ages.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314296#Comment_3314296
Thats not your decision to decide for everyone else however.
Think of it this way.
I've had a kobe actually get me an escape...honestly, never. But I can imagine it being a vanishingly tiny chance.
On the other hand, at least 25% of my losses in solo queue are directly because of a super early suicide.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315504#Comment_3315504
Usually a blocked Gen should not regress.
But there is currently a Bug that it still regresses. This goes for all Regression, aka a Gen regresses while blocked via Deadlock or when it with Pain Resonance/Dead Mans Switch.
Ah, if that's the case then yeah, it's a bug.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360759/old-ranking-please
"I just played in a match with someone who had 300 hours. Going up against a killer with 6000."
I mean, that happened in the ranking system too so it's not like this would solve anything.
If anyone on either side took a break and let their rank reset to grade 20 it was a mixed bag with what you got too. It really isn't hard to rank up either, you could get to rank 1 easily and then go against players with 5x your hours and vice versa.
You also had a full reset every month.
Yeah, occasionally SBMM poops the bed, generally when lobby dodges happen - but it's nothing like the stupidity of ranks.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315290#Comment_3315290
A few minor corrections. I don't disagree with your overall point, just supplying additional info.
The only killers with no TR are Wraith and...I guess Sadako and Ghostface
T1 Meyers, Pig while crouched, Spirit while phasing (TR stays at the husk), Twins while controlling Victor, and Dredge during nightfall. Arguably Freddy while asleep, though there is a lullaby (like demanifested Sadako).
The only killer that can instantly kill you is Sadako
Tombstone Meyers has entered the chat.
Devour is also a thing, but requires 5 hooks and can be cleansed.
Eh...technically I guess. I wasn't including addons or minor gimmicks.
@healsoflove718 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315468#Comment_3315468
Yes, I really do and I already said I'm a new player lol smh learn to read instead of rage responding just to call me inexperienced.
That...was absolutely not what he was doing.
He's saying that with a bit more experience, you'll see why these aren't really valid complaints.
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@BlueHorkew said:
So jolt hits a gen even if the gen is blocked, is that intentional or just a feature of the perk that was never changed?
Are you sure? Because yeah, that sounds like a bug.
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@healsoflove718 said:
- Why are hooks so close to each other?? It encourages camping & tunneling!!! If it's not balanced, make hooks further apart and increase wiggle to balance it out.
- Why do 60% of killers have no terror radius?? If that's the case, survivors shouldn't have scratch marks OR instead, give us a perk that allows us to leave no scratch marks behind with a CD.
- A lot of survivor perks are countered with blindness... why bother making those perks to begin with? They're useless. Every perk you bring in should count for SOMETHING, otherwise, it's a used perk taking up space doing nothing. These counters are ridiculous and make the game NOT FUN! We put in a lot of game time/hours leveling our characters just to find out that the perk we wanted DOESN'T WORK!!!
- Killers that can instantly kill you or 1 shot you? NOT FUN. I just die on the hook. If ONE survivor alone can't do an instant generator, instant open chest, instant anything, killers shouldn't either. Then, you add into account that hooks are so close to each other, smaller maps, it's easy for killers and solo survivors it's a nightmare. In matches where killers just one shot me, I kill myself on hook and move on to the next game which makes me feel really bad for the rest of my solo survivor team but if I'm not having fun, forget it... it's not worth it.
- Create a special slot for both killers and survivors such as a specialty perk slot. For survivors, create unique customization which allows the survivor to become proficient in a particular ability such as healing, totem finder/cleanser, or some sort of buffs that each survivor can bring into the game with their 4 added perks. The same thing goes for killers, killers can have a unique perk slot where it gives them haste, or added buffs to down survivors. So, in the end, you have ONE special ability/specialty and your 4 added perks. OR make exhaustion perks ONE special ability with 4 perks that you can bring into the game.
- Are they? That really depends on RNG. Some maps (Swamp, Eyrie, Badham, Midwich etc.) are notorious for having 1 hook for a huge area, or sometimes areas where you simply...cannot hook anyone.
- What? The only killers with no TR are Wraith and...I guess Sadako and Ghostface, but that's part of their kit. None of these killers are close to powerful. Not sure what the complaint is here.
- Blindness is one of the most useless status effects in the game - the only survivor perks it counters are aura reading. I'm guessing this is a complaint about Fearmonger, which likely means you are newer (not an insult, but Fearmonger is a base perk and so you only really see it on newer killers). Important stuff, like survivors being hooked are not hurt by blindness at all. Also - uhh...if you want to see what it's like to have your entire kit countered, play some killer.
- The only killer that can instantly kill you is Sadako, and that takes some doing. Exposed killers are balanced around this mechanic, and there are ways to offset it. The hooks are not close together at all. Also - suiciding because you got downed is just incredibly bad sportsmanship and one of the things that makes solo queue so miserable.
- That's a cute idea, but likely a bit ambitious as it would completely change the balance of the game.
I get the sense that you are a little newer - and that's completely fine. But...honestly, I'd strongly recommend playing some killer too, as not only will you get a sense of how to counter these complaints, but you'll see that most of them are a complete non issue.
@healsoflove718 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315268#Comment_3315268
I don't find playing killer fun, I like playing as survivor. I have played as killer and although I do see issues that killers are mentioning but again, the issue here is playing as solo survivor against killers who tunnel/camp and can one-shot you down within the FIRST 3mins of the game. NOT FUN.
Tunneling/camping is unfortunate - but understand that killers don't know if they're going to be facing a team of organized loop monsters or a bunch of solos, and sort of have to play mean in case it's the former.
Why are you going down so fast though? If it's a Myers, you can loop him all day and he has a TR when he can instadown. A Ghostface? Just look out for him and reveal him by looking at him, or run away.
@Igbylucy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313978#Comment_3313978
You are right about the hooks being too close. They do need to be spaced out a little. And we were all new players at some point.
Have you tried hooking a survivor on Midwich or Badham? There are spots where it's almost impossible as is.
@healsoflove718 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314043#Comment_3314043
You're talking about SWFs, I play as a solo survivor. Have you?? Have you seen the groups you get put in with? I can admit I still have to learn a lot about the game but, I focus on gens, I can unhook safely, I can cleanse do totems, heal, take hits for my teammates, etc. I suck at looping the killer. Most solo queue is a disaster. It's not fun when you have killers that can one-shot you within the FIRST MINUTE of the game as a solo survivor. Now, if you're talking about swfs players, I totally understand where you're coming from and would agree with you but as a solo survivor who just wants to play alone, you encounter a lot of situations where killers have the upper hand in the end. I just got out of a game where it was Myers, of course, he can one shot within 2 mins of the game with his power, first person to get hooked decided to kill themselves, leaving 3 vs 1 killer with instant kills, with 5 gens to still do. How is that fun? Who benefits at the end of it? The killer with 4 kills! Survivors leave with less than 5k blood points. Then, you have tunneling/camping killers who still just sit there by the hook or still end up chasing whomever they hooked after they were rescued. The rest of the solo survivors aren't doing gens in solo queues. They're either walking around aimlessly, crouching by hooks or running towards the person that's hooked! lol... it's a mess.
Think of it this way.
Survivors can choose to play in SWFs or play solo.
Killers cannot choose not to face SWFs.
Thus, killers need to play every game, at least to start, as if it was a comp squad - and sadly, by the time you realize that you were actually facing a chill group or solos, it's a bit late.
Now...I'll generally try to dial back once I realize that - but after you get crushed by a comp squad who probably deliberately tanked their MMR and tell you to uninstall in postgame/leave nasty messages on your Steam wall, you're going to want to avoid that - and sometimes that means playing hard.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
1. NURSE will always be the strongest killer in the game and there are no reworks to fix it.
2. DH is a balanced perks now ( oh my god, I really said that? No way )
3. Camping and tunneling will always exist no matter how many measures are taken to discourage this type of gameplay.
4. SoloQ will always be terrible because you can not fix bad players.
5. SWF is fine, that's the reason this game didn't die a long time ago.
6. New metas will always come and go because people are crying too much although some perks are fair.
7. FNAF WILL NOT COME TO DBD
8. The old dbd despite being unbalanced is better than the current one.
9. BHVR has made some great changes over the last few months.
10. I'm beautiful boys and girls.
11. Sweet is better than salty.
Eh...okay.
- Define 'strongest'? I see Nurses getting destroyed all the time at my intermediate MMR and I see Nurses getting destroyed on top MMR streams. Her upper limit is probably super high, but that should get reigned in a bit in 6.5.0.
- Eh...hmmm...(non committal noises...)...it's tricky to say. There's a reason it's picked so often - because it can still be a really oppressive perk against weaker killers, but less powerful (or even outright useless) against stronger killers or specific builds. Not a huge problem, but I could go either way here.
- Well...sure? The problem is that these are necessary tactics against very strong teams, but complete and obnoxious overkill against average teams. One of the core issues is the way survivor BP/emblems work, in that there's zero reason for someone not to suicide while getting camped in solo queue - even if their team wins, they're still getting 4,000 BP and a depip for wasting their time.
- Yup. But solo still needs some love. 'Terrible' is relative - it can always be 'less terrible'.
- No. The problem is matchmaking, and that 4 players can team up and still have the same MMR for matchmaking purposes as they would solo, or even have someone purposefully tank their MMR to get easier opponents. This is where you get the really unfair stomps.
- Sure.
- I think you'd be astonished at how few people really care about FNAF anymore.
- Ahahahahaha...no. I started under old DbD and it was awful and janky. I could go on about every map having a 'you can't pick me up from here!' spot, often multiple. Or prenerf OoO. Or prenerf keys. Or MoM. Or DS. Or BT. Or DH. Or sabo. Or infinites. Or monthly rank resets which also reset matchmaking. Or moris. But I won't.
- Yes.
- Okay.
- I'd prefer my coffee and ice-cream to be sweet.
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@loothound said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315074#Comment_3315074
Tunnelling, camping, running 3 to 4 slowdowns isn't necessary on most killers, but it gives an easier win, so why wouldn't they run/do it and get the mild dopamine hit from seeing that 4k screen?
"...if I can disrupt survivors from doing gens long enough, I will win." Its basically what all the other knights are doing to its logical conclusion. "If I can lock down this 3 gen, eventually the survivors will mess up and you win!"
I think winning chases immediately is a pretty good way of wearing the survivors down and disrupting gens. Why chase a good looper at a strong tile when you can plop down a guard, they have to hold W to the next loop or he gets hit by the guard or you and dies if there's no more interconnected loops. Forcing people to go for saves more and heal more often since they dont want to be caught edge map or just no other loops around is game delay in itself.
It's more that...how would I explain it?
There is a certain style of play that you need to adopt against a strong, coordinated team (see: Community Cup). That style of play is overkill against solos or less strong teams.
However, there's zero way to know going in if you're up against some solo bunny rabbits or a SWF pack of velociraptors.
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@TheSubstitute said:
No opinions? I said I don't think camping, tunneling or running more than one regression perk is 100% necessary for the Knight to have success in regular play and that other playstyles are possible and nobody has an opinion either agreeing, disagreeing or otherwise?
@StarLost I'm pinging you simply because you had a thread about how to use the Knight effectively so you may find this interesting because I think we both started Dbd at close to the same time. I'm not on my A-game, more like my C-game because I just took a break over the holidays and I was tired, but you might find the video a more interesting approach to playing Knight.
Not a bad game, but not exactly typical.
Why FOR out of interest? It seems a little redundant. I'd got Lethal Pursuer as that synergizes with NTH really well.
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@dgbug said:
DBD's shrine of secrets is outdated, they have the cosmetic pricing of an f2p game, most meta perks either have to be grinded for for an insane amount of time, or have to be bought, and just because the best killer is free doesn't mean you can use them without either spending an INSANE amount of time grinding, or just straight up paying, and you still can't use perks like eruption without paying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO98DbQr4UU
And no, Mandy. DBD isn't "not pay to win" because nurse exists. That's not how it works.
Eh...depends how hard you want to chase the ever-moving target of killer meta.
That said - 2 killer/survivor combo packs costs the same as a burger and fries. Cosmetics are expensive, but you can earn a ton of awesome ones via events and rifts. The premium rift pass is completely refunded if you finish it.
To me, this has always been a nontroversy. DbD has given me over 1,000 hours of gameplay and I've likely spent maybe $150 on it over 3 years - and that's with me buying a few skins. No matter how you slice it, that's pretty damn good value.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314317#Comment_3314317
Dead Hard: Most powerful, hard to use, can be countered with addons/abilities, no drawbacks.
DH is not hard to use.
That's subjective, but okay - 'Easy to waste and hard to get the most out of'.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314427#Comment_3314427
Peanits broke down escape rates and his explanation didn’t match up with your bogus (“it’s really 40%”) math. He may have even said that hook suicides aren’t considered (survivors failing to unhook). He definitely said DCs don’t. Maybe even AFKs.
There's a lot of 'may' there. And in this case 'may' means 'emphatically didn't'.
He said DCs. He never said suicides or AFKs, and plenty of people mention exactly that in that thread.
I factored everything we know about escape rates when I worked on my little dataset (still working on it actually, will probably post it after the LNY event).
They match up and that's with me being overly conservative with numbers in some places. An organized SWF will have between 15-20% more escapes, meaning that kill rates fall proportionally.
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@lemonsway said:
Nobody should see your Perks!
DbD isn't a Comp Game, it's a CASUAL Game! You're not an Esports Pro you're some random person playing DbD! And "Comp" DbD is full of made up rules already, meaning they're not part of the game but you people want all the crazy BS to actually be part of the game!?
Have you people ever watched "Comp" DbD? It's a snooze fest of tunneling and camping and gen rush.
Why do you people keep asking for things that should not exist? Why do you keep asking for SWEATY things to exist and then complain when people play SWEATY!?
IT'S NOT A GAME MEANT TO BE SWEATY! Nobody has fun in sweaty matches!
Says...who, exactly?
And why does 'casual game' mean 'don't ever improve or balance anything'?
Why does showing your team your perks make this game less casual? It actually helps casual players - you know, people who don't have teams to coordinate. I'm not sure what your definition of casual game means either - because even playing casually, I still want to win.
Comp DbD...sure? But find me any organized tournament that doesn't have house rules.
Either I'm getting jaded in my old age, or this entire post reads like 'if my opponents are trying to win, that's not fair'.
@lemonsway said:
You want to see the game in a healthier state and to help SoloQ? Start by admitting MMR was a colossal mistake. That alone will bring in all the players that left, you'll see more players, faster queues, more people willing to play SoloQ. Then start fixing your game. Fix maps, ACTUALLY NERF NURSE INSTEAD OF GIVING HER BILLION BLINKS AGAIN. BUFF ALL M1 KILLERS and GIVE SURVIVORS SOME OTHER WAY OF WORKING ON GENS INSTEAD OF JUST HOLDING M1.
The game is boring and lacks interactibility. Fix this and the game will feel brand new and fun.
The 2 and half years we've wasted on MMR tests and implentation can be saved...
- SBMM helps solo queue.
- MMR is better for casuals than RBMM. Infinitely better.
- Why does MMR make the game less casual?
- So...you basically mean 'make a completely different game'?
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@Audiophile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313684#Comment_3313684
Lofl. Self pity and crying from the side that has EVERYTHING handed to them. Not a good look….
Survivors were brokenly OP for most of DbD's lifespan. Now that killers finally at least sometimes feels like the power role...well, let's just say that this post made me chuckle.
Want to know what 'EVERYTHING handed to you' looks like at the highest tiers of this game? Watch the community cup.
Even with survivors limited on what they could bring, a fairly killer sided map and killers slugging, tunneling, camping and doing everything they can to win - often 1-2 kills, max.
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@LSFkiller said:
Before you get mad hear me out,I dont mind playing swf. But what if once the game starts ( not in lobby ) an icon appears telling the killer theres a swf . The number or players in the swf are not identified. Just a notification a swf is present. Gaming is a social thing.
Alternatively if there is a swf, it triggers a 50% chance of the icon showing up after the game starts , with a (?) Letting the killer know theres a high chance of one present.
Nah.
I...honestly don't see the purpose of this, besides causing salty killers to DC or just AFK.
@LSFkiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314415#Comment_3314415
😄 if killers dc because of swf they wouldnt get many matches. They should probably play a softer game
Shrug.
I see a survivor DC, suicide or AFK in 34% of my matches - no matter how chill I play or what 'everyone gets double BP' offerings I bring.
The problem is that the DC penalty in this game is laughable.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
After playing an hour or so of DBD, I have been having matches recently where Survivors just consistently DC and ruin the match for everyone; with this happening in both Survivor and Killer matches I played.
But why would someone DC from a match, what horrible act did the Killer (or me in some instances) do to push a Survivor to DC?
They (and I) waited out Dead Hard or outplay the Survivors.
It feels like there are a lot of players that just really do not like being outplayed in the slightest. You wait out DH, they DC. You use your power effectively and down them, they DC. And for SoloQ, I feel like this is a huge issue that ruins matches for everyone; SoloQ Survivors get thrown into a match they cannot physically win, Killers are forced to play a long and drawn out match in which their is barely any action or excitement because the match is already a 3v1 at 5 generators (I personally just find it boring).
And this just leads me to the question, of why do Survivors DC consistently, and what can be done to solve this issue? Killers DCing was a huge issue in my matches pre-6.1.0 Patch, but now the inverse is happening.
Dude, I've seen people DC/suicide because:
- I found them first.
- They tried some fancy tech and it failed.
- They literally challenged me to a chase at shack and lost.
- I'm playing <insert killer here>.
- They were literally only doing an archive.
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@junicorn said:
I really don’t understand how this game can go from memeing in snowmen and having fun with the killer, to getting beaten to death on the hook, slugged as last person alive until bleeding out on the ground, instantly removed from the match because of ultra-rare addons like tombstone or offerings like mori. It seems like camping and tunneling that one survivor for a mori is more important than actually playing the game and letting everyone enjoy it. Why is Behavior allowing this type of toxic behavior? Instead of preventing it, they are making it easier for people. A killer that can send «guards» to camp the hooks for them, seriously? These changes are ruining the whole community and experience. The more toxic players there are, the less wholesome and nice players. Is that really what we want?
Yeah, it can be frustrating sometimes - but a few things.
- Unhooking dispels that guard.
- Camping and tunneling are less rewarding than they've been in recent memory.
- What changes?
It's also no less annoying from the other side at times - super sweaty SWFs who will go out of their way to make sure that nobody benefits from that flan you brought out of sheer spite.
This causes killers to become less likely to play chill, which in turn causes other survivors to be nasty and on and on it goes.
Unfortunately, BHVR have a...bit of an odd attitude towards toxicity, in that you can do anything short of dropping racial slurs and be fine.
@Trev1979 said:
I love all the killer mains bitching about survivors on this thread as if there 60% win rate isn't good enough? Honestly, what ratio do you all think is appropriate? 80%? 90%? Seriously. If you played a board game with someone and they won 60% of the time you would never play with them again. And its the survivors that are entitled....
That 60% winrate is bogus.
Think of it this way.
I see a quitter in maybe 1/3 of my games as killer, and I play chill. Some are DCs, but more than half are hook suicides.
SWF escapes more than solos - around 15%. So let's be conservative and say...the lack of suicides and AFKs alone in SWFs add another 5%.
Suddenly, it's not 60%. It's 40%.
Also - huh? I played board games with my mates in college, as well as chess with one of my former girlfriends. I'd say that I'd lose more than 60% of the time, depending on the game. Why would I quit? A game you always lose is no fun, but ditto with a game you always win.
Oh, I've been putting together some data from both ends of things recently, and survivors are BM at around twice the rate killers are, even accounting for the 4:1 ratio (8x more games have a toxic survivor than a toxic killer).
@junicorn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313906#Comment_3313906
I did play some years ago, but I quit since I was too bad at looping and died every match so I didn't really have fun playing. But you're right, I don't know what the game looked like back then when it comes to perks, moris etc. I only know how the game makes me feel now, and it's been pretty depressing to solo queue last couple of days. That's all I can say. I don't complain about moris, but the type of people using them just to be #########
Solo queue is depressing - but you have the option of playing in a SWF. The DBD discord has groups popping off 24/7 at all levels of skill.
@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313684#Comment_3313684
Take it easy Francis.
Im just waiting for the people who inevitably show up and start calling playing killer "their job".
🤨
I've literally never seen that. Can you give me an example of anyone that's said that recently and not being facetious?
@[Deleted User] said:
This is a new phenomenon?
Sadly this.
DbD is in serious need of a jerk fumigation. There's something about this game that just brings out the worst in people.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310493#Comment_3310493
Idk I play swf my with brother on a rare time and we rarely get out.. you want the game balanced with seal team six vs noob killer haha
No? What?
I want the game balanced with the coordination of a SWF in mind. That can be a newer SWF versus a newer killer or a comp SWF versus a comp killer.
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@DylanLives said:
As someone who has played a lot of solo queue and as Killer, I am completely fine with Kindred being basekit, it is especially helpful for solo queue to avoid having 2-3 people all going for an unhook or worse, risking a hook state on the assumption that someone else will save the hooked survivor. I could see this getting messy with SWF, but even with that they'd be calling the killer out anyways
Eh, Kindred sees use even in very experienced comp teams.
Baseline...you'd have to lose the killer aura, to start.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314300#Comment_3314300
Okay.
If you remove self-unhooks, DC's and AFK's will rise.
Which is why I also made a suggestion about DCs. AFKs...honestly, just DC the person after they get 3 crows.
But at least with an AFK, the killer can get some points.
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I forgot about Overcome...as I suspect almost everyone else did XD.
It's...okay, but a bit of a pain to use as you don't want to lead the killer to your CoH, and without CoH it's taking up a spot that could be CoH.
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@RainehDaze said:
In my case, I really, really hate finding out someone was running Resilience after the game. Just makes me wonder if my distance judgement was off the entire time or if the server was lagging, but no. Turns out they had that tiny vault speed boost.
On killer...
Honestly, the perks I hate seeing tend to be the strongest. Sabo can sometimes be very frustrating to deal with if it's used smartly on a hook 24/7 and that's the literal only hook in a huge area (Badham is terrible for this).
On survivor...
Knockout.
Holy crap, this one is annoying in SWF and an absolute nightmare scenario in solo.
Insidious, because it's always someone who's going to hard camp on the first down.
NOED, because somehow I'm always just about to be in a chase when I pop the last gen, get downed and get camped, which is followed by a Three Stooges reenactment as the entire team dies trying to save me.
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@notclaudette said:
At least balanced landing rarely gets value, but lithe? just sprint burst without the skill, for the same value on any outdoor map. Speed perks should have some crazy drawback, which is the only reason sprint burst is fair because it triggers when you start running limiting its usage in chase to the start, then your skill determines its usage. Lithe is just free distance, balanced landing is the same just never useful. completely rework both perks to being skillful and useful
not saying their overpowered, their just the most braindead perks. the skill ceiling for lithe is literally choosing to use it or not, and it lacks any form of drawbacks.
Sprint burst triggers when you begin running, changing the function of running for the survivor. Running because a distance maker at the start of a chase, rather than something to slow the killers distance gain on you. After using it, if you want to use it in chase you need to manage walking mid chase when you have the distance, then 99 and use it at the right time. A high-skill ceiling perk, that transforms your gameplay in a meaningful way.
Lithe is not like that. A vault is something used to create distance and maintain a loop with the killer. Lithe? Makes vaults into something used to create distance with the killer, just more. And all you need to do is vault. This doesnt change your gameplay meaningfully in the slightest, as its the same gameplay just on some crack. Lithe isnt overpowered, not saying that. Just saying it provides too much value *for its required skill*.
Balanced landing is just lithe but on falls. Bad perk, rework this period.
Thanks for reading, open to opinions.
Eh...
The 4 primary Ex perks work a bit like this.
Lithe: Least powerful, but easy to use without many drawbacks.
Sprint Burst: Very powerful, easy to use but has a massive drawback.
BL: Somewhat powerful, easy to use but very conditional and map dependent.
Dead Hard: Most powerful, hard to use, can be countered with addons/abilities, no drawbacks.
Head On and Smash Hit...aren't really worth mentioning.
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@sluc16 said:
You can blind a killer while fully healed, make no noise at all, they still know where you are exactly, they even turn their bodied in your direction while blinded, is so dumb that just having a good headset makes a game mechanic completely useless.
If you run, the killer chases and can hear you.
However...I've had some success with blinding, then ducking around a corner and crouching. As in - it works maybe 2 times in 3.
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@DrDofenshmirt said:
and why the cannibal is being removed for. :(
I think @GoodBoyKaru debunked the removal, but it's hard to completely confirm either way.
Bone Chill went longer because of server shenanigans for some folks.
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@djrobert said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314300#Comment_3314300
So the game is balanced for solos and this buff will be huge for them... you don't think killers need balancing?
I don't think this game is balanced for solos at all. If anything, 6.1.0 moved the balance a bit closer to SWF/killer.
Like...before patch:
Solo << Killer <<< SWF
After 6.1.0
Solo <<< Killer << SWF.
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@xfireturtlex said:
Use undying and thrill of the hunt (i think, whichever one makes totems longer to cleanse). Throw some pentimento in there too juat to slow gens if they do get a totem. Finally, use Hag to trap the hell outta totems and defend them at all costs with her range addons. Go to Midwich with that build and it's practically guaranteed as long as they don't dc
ToTT is actually a fantastic suggestion.
EDIT: Oh wait, hang on.
Can't you just run a mori on like Ghostface? That would give you both exposed and a murder.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
Hey all,
I'm looking for some assistance in completing a killer challenge I have. The challenge requires the use of Hex: Devour Hope, the hooking of 5 survivors, putting two survivors into a dying state while they are exposed and finally, killing a survivor with the killer's own hands. So basically, the challenge is to make complete and total use of Hex: Devour Hope.
The challenge I am running into is that the hex always seems to be cleansed way before I can make use of the hex. I have tried bringing Hex: Undying and Devour Hope, but it's the same result.
So please, lend me your tips, tricks and suggestions on how to complete this challenge.
Thanks!
You'll have to adapt.
I know that sometimes this challenge seems futile, but eventually the survivors will not be able to resist.
...Yeah, that's all the Borg jokes I've got.
In seriousness, Midwich, GoJ and Borgo have very tricky totem spots, so those might be worth an offering. Although then you'll have to play GoJ or Borgo - so I'd go for Midwich.
The hardest part is going to be getting through this without DCs or suicides.
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It would stop suicides, and that's...literally half of my solo queue losses.
@djrobert said:
You can never beat communication's, having icons will have an effect but how do we all heal at killer shack or push a gen a killer has just pushed me off?
Can see all the killers getting buffed to match this buff for survivors in... a few years
I don't think killers need buffing relative to solos. And this will be the tiniest of the tiny buffs to SWFs.
@WesCravenFan said:
I'm starting to not see the value in the 4% attempt. At this point it is just an excuse to get around the DC timer. If you have deliverance it can just I've you an activation prompt.
Bingo!
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@bm33 said:
Showing the perks everyone is running should definitely be a thing. Not even to just stop 4 of same perk but so when I'm running Wake Up my teammate understands why I'm pointing to let me open it faster. Would let you know why teammate is likely in locker - perk or just their home. Also seeing players items/add ons would be nice so I know the person with a tool kit is doing gens or wasting time doing sabo challenge.
Chat wheel with basic stuff like "I'm going for unhook", "focus on gens", "killer camping me", "for the love of the entity please leave because I need 3 people to leave while I'm still alive" - basic things you could tell a swf that solo can't. Also have feature that puts it on cool down for anyone that starts spamming it to be annoying.
I'd actually love a chat/emote wheel. Especially for 'there's a Ghostface looking at you, RUN' or 'that's Wraith, don't get...oh you got grabbed'.
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@jamally093 said:
What I mean is Lethal pursuer is good but the I feel like you get the most out of it with other aura reading perks because if you don't have another aura perk it basically makes Lethal a waste of a perk after the 7 seconds are up but putting it with other aura perks makes it better since it adds those extra two seconds which is a life saver.
I love LP and run it on most of my killers that aren't Hag.
Getting a very fast early chase, especially when you can see where the largest number spawned is just so good, and it's synergy with NTH, BBQ, FOR and IAA is the chef's kiss.
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@Justinradtke14 said:
Ideas for balance:
Remove incapacitated from a gen affected by Eruption but make the gen lose 20% progress upon a down.
Gen regression perks can't stack like exhaustion perks can't stack. When a slowdown perk is activated the killer is given an exhausted like effect for 30 to 40 seconds.
When a survivor dies all gen regression perks deactivate like how the new hex ruin does.
Jolt effects every gen map wide upon a down.
Basekit killer regression speed is buffed to 150% upon a kick and the gen loses 5% but the regression speed will be capped at 200% max with perks.
It takes a survivor 3 seconds of working on a generator to stop regression.
Block all gens and totems by the entity for 10-20 seconds at the start of ever match.
Just ideas. Not all of these need to be implemented.
Hmm.
In order:
- No, that's really boring. Change the incap to a block, call it a day.
- You'd have to balance regression perks substantially, and rework them in places because some need to be layered with other regression perks to function.
- Ahahaha no. Ruin is now completely useless.
- That's...actually not a terrible idea.
- Ditto. Would open up far more build possibilities.
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@SweetTerror said:
There's a certain magic about the game when as a survivor you're able to outsmart the killer, and as the killer you can completely decimate the team. However the biggest detriment to any multiplayer game is the community, and the community of DBD can be a toxic bunch.
People will tell you that you're a horrible person that should end their life simply because you're playing your game the way that you want to. I'll be honest, in some matches as killer I'll intentionally avoid a "sweaty build" solely for the reason that I don't want to get crapped on within the end game chat. But nevertheless it can still happen.
More than ever this is why I'm glad we now have the bots. When the day comes that we can equip them with perks and play against killer bots, unless I need shards or blood points, I'll probably never hop into a live match ever again.
You won't stop the nasties, because they will always find something to be nasty about.
I've been cussed out (this Christmas):
- For letting a duo go (u think ur good?)
- For having an anonymous profile.
- For running Lethal Pursuer.
- For playing Artist.
- For playing Demo.
- For playing Dredge.
- For playing Doctor.
And my absolute favorite:
- For playing Vanity Mirror Myers.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314054#Comment_3314054
Handicapping survivors doesn’t punish tunneling. Like ??? Are you awake?
Uh, that's not what he's saying.
He's saying that tunneling is essentially required at the higher levels of play (just watch a tournament) - and killers will still routinely finish with <2 kills.
If the devs add additional nerfs to killers, then survivors will need to be nerfed too.
@VideoGameMage said:
Hyperfocus has a 2% pickrate compared to prove which has nearly a 20% pickrate. Hyperfocus is in no way meta. DS got replaced with OTR, COH, and adrenaline imo. Adrenaline solves that endgame tunnel scenario if the killer hooks you before the last gen pops. Which is what DS did before they made it deactivate during endgame.
It's almost like Hyperfocus is a perk that needs a SWF to shine? And also new. And $$$. Give it a year or two and a few rounds in the Shrine - you'll see it more.
It's absolutely meta - but not in solo queue. I think I saw it in almost every single match in the community cups, because it's very strong and also synergizes insanely well with Fogwise and Stakeout.
DS is still bloody useful.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314132#Comment_3314132
Prove is also: A) on Dwight, and B) gives bonus BP.
It's like singling out old BBQ for having a high pickrate and saying that this clearly makes it the most powerful info perk and that must be why everyone's using it. The main difference being it was on a licensed killer rather than one of the immediately unlocked characters.
The question is if hyperfocus is trending up or down in usage.
I'm keeping an eye on it.
I almost never see it when I face solos, but the teams that have brought it and built around it have annihilated me. I'm not exaggerating when I say that these were the fastest I've ever seen gens done since I started playing.
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@johnlikesguns2 said:
I recently started seeing alot of Blights. Before i faced a baby Blight once in a while. But now Blights seems pretty much common and i'm getting really good and high prestiged ones. That never happened before, any explanation for this? It's been happening even before the Nurse nerf announcement.
About the same as always, so...a lot. Not as many as Weskers (I swear, it's still like 25% Wesker) but definitely #2.
What's amazing is that Nurse has seemingly vanished.
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313842#Comment_3313842
Ah yes, the famous nerfed eruption, pain resonance, scourge hook gift of pain, surge and overcharge /s
Not gonna read the rest of that wall of text when the premise is that
Well, of course you didn't. Because then you wouldn't have made yourself look a little silly. Although I'm not sure you even read the premise (unless you aren't sure what 'majority' means XD).
- I mentioned eruption as an outlier which is why, surprise surprise, you see it so much.
- PR got nerfed.
- GOP is a terrible perk only really of use on instadown killers, and even then. There's a reason nobody uses it.
- Haha Overcharge...worse than an empty slot unless you pair it with actual good perks or are playing against actual sloths. 12 seconds before it's as good as standard kick regression. I'm actually not convinced that old Overcharge was worse as a one slot perk.
- Surge is...well, buffed, but the cooldown was never that much of an issue. If you're downing people fast enough for the cooldown to be much of a factor, you were probably going to win anyway.
Cliffnotes as you're not a reader: Regression was supposed to get nerfed while gen timers are longer. But this is only true on paper.
@SmarulKusia said:
Gen rush is not happening because anti-tunneling perks were nerfed and resulted in less chases.
Gen rush is happening because they nerfed how quick a generator can be completed - resulting in people specifically bringing in gen rushing builds and focusing on doing generators more. This is further perpetrated by the fact that Killers have generally gotten more aggressive with tunnelling/camping which gives lee-way to those that are doing generators to keep doing so.
Especially now that the meta is to identify the three-gen and camp it with killers like Knight.
Ahaha WHAT?
Okay, where do I start here?
- Genrush is happening because of Hyperfocus, and the ridiculous synergy it has with other perks in a coordinated team.
- Camping and tunneling have never been harder or less rewarding within recent memory. Assuming that killers camp and tunnel to win easier...why would they be doing it more?. That does not make an iota of sense.
- How are they camping a 3 gen while tunneling a survivor?
- In my last maybe 120 survivor games, I've seen 1 killer camp a 3gen that we didn't do to ourselves. And we were able to bum rush it and eventually get a 2o.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313877#Comment_3313877
Most Killers do tunnel in almost every game, in my experience.
Tunneling may not be fun for the Killer, but it is easy and reliable. That's what casual players are after. What gives me the easiest and most reliable path to victory?
No, it's not quite the same thing as rewarding Killers for not tunneling. It's changing how the game works. It's de-incentivizing tunneling by making the benefit you get from it less. Right now, you get such a huge reward for making the game a 3v1 that it really doesn't matter what you give Killers. Getting someone out ASAP will always be better unless the reward is outrageously OP.
By changing the general balance of the game to be less Survivor-favored in a 4v1, you make those players who feel like they must tunnel a little less likely to tunnel AND you make the Survivors who lost someone almost immediately not instantly lose.
Really? Maybe it's a stupid high MMR thing, but even watching Otz, Tofu and co - the only killers I see hard tunneling on the regular are Clowns, PHs and Cenobites, and that's due to silly design oversights that allow them to ignore BT.
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@Zephinism said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313315#Comment_3313315
We back to this use empathy to guess when survivors go down malarkey? if they're across the map how do you know how much longer they could possibly last in chase? Could be a strong tile.
What if the moon was made of cheese? Would you like a slice?
Again, I didn't say that you could predict it with 100% certainty.
I'm saying that, with a bit of practice, a bit of gamesense and a bit of luck, I can avoid Eruption maybe half the time without wasting too much time - and that if I was better at the survivor side of the game, that number would go up.
This should also become a little easier with the status icons.
But as I and several others have said...how many times now? Just go ahead and made it a gen block rather than an incap.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313900#Comment_3313900
Sure! I will do that tonight and get back to you, don’t want you having to comb through. Lol
Awesome. Always curious about this stuff, because I always learn something new.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313897#Comment_3313897
For sure! I’ll play some mid killer tonight. I wouldn’t say I’m a “sweaty” killer, but I do win a good bit of my games.
I won’t say every single team is a super genrush SWF, but I see a couple good teams every night, especially on blight (but that doesn’t count I guess xD)
As you said above, there are definitely some games where gens are completely unmanageable and they pop faster than you can patrol, but it does not happen often.
Haha okay.
You know what might be a better idea? Play for a bit, timestamp...say 3 games that you feel are most representative of what we're talking about here and I'll pick through them.
Should be fun either way.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313827#Comment_3313827
I do, I messaged you.
Thanks! Just keep in mind the conditions I've outlined:
- Strong SWF, preferably a genrushy HSFP sort of team.
- Strong map.
- Mid tier killer.
- No regression.
That's what I'm curious about, because those are the teams 'sweaty' killers are generally trying to preemptively counter.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313794#Comment_3313794
I mean tbf I never made attempts to provide more details than a gif about the match because my intention was just to show that the wiggle bar is an issue atm. Considering it was still at 100% wiggle bar seconds later. This could have been easily been a gif of someone simply wiggling out without body blocking and I would have still pointed out the issue.
I find it amusing that this is where this community has gotten to. Someone posting about a specific topic and all they could focus on is the way a killer got body blocked without them even having been there in the first place. (Not directed at you but an earlier post)
Which is the only reason I brought up camping and tunneling because against that body blocking is yet another effective way to attempt to get the killer off of someone. Even though some people just want to focus on the part where the killer got body blocked and not the part where they set the tone of the match by focusing a single person in the first place.
I'm confused. But okay, let's try.
- The 'wiggle bar' does not always represent the exact break-free time, generally because of latency. You're still breaking free in the same amount of time though.
- People took issue because you look like the typical bully squad that killers hate to face. Just...always BM, always out not only to win but to deny the killer as much BP/emblem points as possible.
- Especially since you said that you didn't care about what sort of experience the other side had as long as you and your mates are having fun. That really comes over as 'yeah, we really want to make the other side suffer and extract a sort of sadistic enjoyment' justified by 'well, another killer a while back did something we didn't like once so now we punish all killers'.
- There's a huge difference between bodyblocking to stop someone from dying and trying to win the game and doing this sort of wretched borderline exploit (abusing the way the hook box and survivor hitboxes interact to block the hook from an area where it visually doesn't look possible) when you've already won the game...presumably to annoy the killer, deny them BP and depip them? That's what people are taking issue with, because it really does come over as deliberately cruel.
- While we can't see what happened in the game, the killer does have hooks on everyone and is playing a weaker killer. This doesn't look like someone who camped and tunneled, it looks like someone who tried to play fair.
Regardless, you do you. I'm just trying to explain why people reacted so negatively to you here. People...generally don't like bullies, especially bullies who engage in whataboutery to justify their behavior.
Again - I'm not saying that's what you're doing. Just how the post and your responses came over.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313794#Comment_3313794
I was playing a match yesterday and had a SWF team doing the usual of trying to set up flashlight saves, head on, spinning and moonwalking around me, body blocking, all that Jazz. I’m a pretty chill killer and was going let them go. I just wanted my challenge where I needed to hook the obsession 4 times. I even equipped Nemesis so I wasn’t just targeting one player. Boy, oh boy! I hated to go there and be one of those people but I was thinking “no wonder some get so sweaty when playing killer if they are dealing with this type of play a lot”. Thankfully they were nice in end game chat.
Yeah.
This was a game from Christmas Eve.
I loaded up a really funny build on Demo, alongside a flan and ran slap bang into a 3man comp squad with over 20k hours between them.
First time I'd ever experienced a HSFP squad and...it was memorable.
They went out of their way to deny me any hooks, had all the gens done by 5 minutes and were obnoxious in postgame. And it wasn't like I was running a heavy build or going hard from the start either - very clearly someone looking to ensure everyone got a bunch of BP and had an entertaining Christmas game.
These are the games that tend to stay with you - because after that, I definitely didn't feel like being chill.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313842#Comment_3313842
- BHVR buffs faster gen perks (or leaves strong ones untouched).
- BHVR adds in very strong gen perks. PTS/Hyperfocus/Stakeout are the big 3.
You're kind of losing me here, because the only perk that was added was Hyperfocus, and none of the gen perks were changed in 6.1.
Mm, okay I should have been clearer.
PTS was left untouched and that perk was strong before 6.1.0. BHVR said they'd 'keep an eye on it' but nothing happened.
Hyperfocus, yeah.
Stakeout (for some reason I keep thinking it was buffed in 6.1.0 but it was yonks ago) has crept back into the meta thanks to Hyperfocus and, honestly, Fogwise. The synergy between these three perks in SWF is absolutely insane. Gens just liquify, especially if it's a SWF that builds around this and sends you to The Game, where Stakeout will just constantly be getting charges.
@EntitySpawn said:
The line "killers change their strat to tunneling to improve the chances of winning" highlights the issues well enough.
Killers arent able to win equal matched players without such tactics and then even stacked slowdown is needed if you're playing anything but the top killer on a decent map..
I'm not sure why people dont see how certain changes or balances force certain playstyles. Ever since tunneling has been a thing iv been saying you need to reward and encourage players that dont alongside slightly punishing those that do as atm tunneling can often be more beneficial for the killer.
As for the perk changes OTR will replace DS simply because is so much stronger and before the DS nerf the OTR change made it's way to meta just because of it's pure strength as its not just good for a single use.
The meta shake up change killer more imo, while it's still gen defense (needed) its different. Only thing changed on survivor is DS for OTR and base BT so you kinda get a 5th perk now.
I'm not sure what your post is actually aiming for though? DS basekit? Probably be abit much now but I have always said DS could be basekit if the killer got some love to allow them to go for chases over kills, base corrupt and a reward for actually hooking someone new would be a start
Eh...again, I don't think you can really show causation either way. It's a chicken/egg situation.
I do think that what's driving things forwards though is how toxic survivors can be in victory, which definitely encourages killers to play sweaty to prevent this.
DS is still a good perk. I was also surprised at the nerf, but watching it constantly pop up in the recent tournaments...it's still plenty strong. OTR is a problem perk because against weaker killers, it can be obnoxious while other killers can essentially ignore Endurance, or abuse one or two tricks to completely negate it (Clown, PH and Cenobite are the three I can think of).
The problem with killer and meta is that you've got less room for fun stuff - you need to build around 16 potential perks on the other side that can range from 'chill' to 'you'll lose 3 gens between starting a chase and hooking - and it's not a long chase!'.
DS basekit - no. Like...I go out of my way not to tunnel, but you'd just have people endlessly bodyblocking to force you to eat it.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313842#Comment_3313842
Well, here's the thing with your stats, you aren't all 4 Survivors.
The Killer could very well be head-shaking or nodding at other Survivors and you'd have no way to know.
Likewise, that ratio you have is actually pretty good. You see 4x as many Survivors as you do Killers, so that tracks pretty well.
Also, Ruin and PGTW got nerfed, but PR got left the same and Eruption and Overcharge got buffed. I'd say that's a net neutral change for gen regression.
Eh...sure? And maybe that tips the stats a bit either way, but not significantly. A killer isn't going to be obnoxious to one survivor and not others - unless that survivor has gotten under their skin. It just wouldn't make sense.
Head shaking/nodding...I don't think that's always BM either, from either end. When I'm talking about BM, I'm not talking about playful banter.
I'm talking more like:
- Teabagging from the exit games (unambiguously BM gloating)
- Hitting on hook while camping/a survivor is being sacrificed (ditto)
- Postgame nastiness.
Survivors are significantly more likely to engage in this sort of behavior and you can test it out for yourself. Over the next while, do 100 games of survivor and 100 games of killer. I'm building a little dataset of my own right now, over 8 weeks, which will hopefully be done by the 16th (I'm ending it once all my flans are gone, then taking a break from the game).
The interesting question is - why?
Oh, naturally I'm accounting for the 4:1 disparity here. But I'll go into that more when I do my thing later this month, it's actually been...eye opening. On average, survivors are significantly more likely to be BM within the definitions I've set (almost double the rate, if I account for the ratio).
As for regression perks:
- Ruin is useless.
- Thana is useless.
- PGTW is...not useless, but incredibly niche and situational.
- PR lost it's info component, but still decent. Just an annoyingly volatile perk with how stupidly big the new maps always are. I only use it on Hag, Slinger and Trickster, for obvious reasons.
- DMS got nerfed, but still decent if you pair it with PR.
- Overcharge got buffed, then nerfed hard, to the extent that it's generally worse than an empty slot unless you're pairing it with other regression perks (and even then...). Keep in mind that it takes 12 seconds to reach standard regression rates - and 12 seconds is a pretty long time. Yes, it's better than the old Overcharge, but, honestly, not by much.
- Surge is...a perk that can feel good, but if you're getting downs fast enough that the cooldown removal really comes into play, you'd probably win anyway.
- Penti is okay, but the counterplay is stupidly easy and most groups know what to do now.
- CoB is still good, but that's more about it fitting into the new kicky meta well.
- Eruption is the only outlier here.
I probably could have made it better, but my point was that most of the regression perks that killers have access to now need to be paired with other regression perks to shine. That should have come with the baseline slower gen speeds (your 'net neutral'), but in practice that's not what actually happened.
What seems to have happened is strong teams making gens go faster than before, and killers now having to dedicate more of their build to reach that net neutral - the exact opposite from what was intended.
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@Firellius said:
Ostensibly, it's OTR: Both are very clearly marked as anti-tunnel perks since they offer protections to a survivor that has been unhooked as long as they don't get/take the opportunity to help their teammates. OTR is basically couched in the same language that DS was, that marked DS as an anti-tunnel perk, so it's reasonable to assume that OTR replaced DS.
And while I think that was the intent, I also think that the result was something else entirely.
First off, one thing I've noticed is that, despite the gen times going up from 80 to 90, a lot of killers still complain that gens are going too fast. I'd say almost more so than before 6.1. I initially wrote it off as shifting standards, but then I saw a response to someone complaining about the gen-regression meta, where someone said something along the lines of
"Suck it up, we've dealt with a DH, DS, UB, BT meta for years"
So I made a half-joking response of 'how nice, survivors coming in with only DH, as long as you don't play like a jerk'.
But that got me thinking about what happened with DS going out and BT becoming partially basekit. UB is basically collateral, since its primary value was in weakening the killer's counterplay to DS, which was to just slug and not pick up. But with those three meta perks out of the picture, that opened up three new slots for survivors to pick perks in.
And I don't think OTR is one of them.
I think it's Prove Thyself and Hyperfocus that took their places.
Which is why the gens feel like they've been going faster. Without anti-tunnel and anti-camp clogging up the survivors' loadouts, they've got space for new perks. And you might think that that would make for more variable gameplay, but then we run into another problem:
Tunnelling and camping still need to be countered, as they're extremely efficient strategies.
So what counter do people gravitate to, now that perk bandaids are a non-viable solution?
'Just do gens'.
Unfortunately, unlike with tunnelling, where a killer can decide to adopt this strategy halfway through the game in order to improve their chances of winning, survivors don't really have that choice. They can't wait for the killer to start tunnelling someone off their first or second hook and -then- decide 'well, time to grab my genrush perks'. Which leads to teams picking and using genrush tactics against killers that don't tunnel.
And unlike DS, those genrush tactics -do- work really well against killers that don't tunnel.
So to summarise, I think that the replacement for DS was intended to be OTR, but it worked out to being 'genrush'. Is that a crazy interpretation?
Nyerr...tumpty tumpty (and other non-committal noises) - here's the thing. (Long answer incoming).
- BHVR buffs gens by 10 seconds.
- BHVR nerfs the majority of regression perks.
Okay, makes sense.
However:
- BHVR buffs faster gen perks (or leaves strong ones untouched).
- BHVR adds in very strong gen perks. PTS/Hyperfocus/Stakeout are the big 3.
Now they've basically undone what they were trying to accomplish, and killers have to stack more regression/rely on the only regression perks that weren't destroyed.
Beyond this...meta here is a toxic ouroboros.
A squad of survivors come in with a 'win no matter what' mindset, doing everything they can to get a 4o. A killer comes in for a fun, chill game - runs into that squad, gets two hooks with all the gens being done in about 4 minutes and told to uninstall in postgame.
So that killer goes 'yeah, sod this', loads up their strongest perks and addons - then runs into a group of survivors looking for a fun chill game, 4ks them at 4 gens and they get annoyed. So that squad switches to HSFP and pummels their next killer, and because they feel justified in 'punishing' killers, they are jerks to her on top of it.
On and on it goes.
Now - watching some of the recent tournament games, you can see how - in lab conditions - killers need to tunnel, slug, camp and use every single tool at their disposal...often to get at most 1-2 kills on a pretty killer sided map. That's how strong SWF is at the redline.
When you run into a strong SWF, this game can feel completely unwinnable unless you play equally sweaty yourself. So you go sweaty from the start, because if you don't - and you are facing a strong SWF - you're going to lose and get gloated at. And by the time you realize that it's actually a bunch of solos, you've already got 2 DCs.
Genrush isn't a response to tunneling. Tunneling isn't a response to genrush. All of these 'sweaty' strats are generally a response to running into a few nasty opponents, getting BM'd and deciding that you're going to try and stop that from happening again.
But...
I do lean somewhat towards sympathizing with killers, because there's a definite double standard here. For some reason, it's completely acceptable for survivors to do anything to win (and be nasty after), but a killer going all out - that's somehow a problem.
Best example: mercy. There is a clear expectation for killers to show mercy to the final survivor, and if they don't they're going to get cussed out and called sweaty. But there's zero expectation of a team giving a killer a mercy kill to stop them from depipping.
Ditto - BM. I've been putting together some numbers, and - even factoring in the 4v1 nature of the game, it's maybe 8x as likely for a survivor to teabag and sit in the exit gates to gloat than, say, a killer hitting the last person on hook.
Similarly, I see a killer bail in less than 1/20 of games.
I see a survivor AFK/suicide/DC in almost 1/3 of games (I think that right now I've got it at 32% of games, which is *stupid*) - and that's with me playing incredibly fair and bringing flans or streamers.
There's clearly a psychology at play here that's different between the two sides.