StarLost
StarLost
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317337#Comment_3317337
First you need to evaluate how much of a difference these survivor buffs make. I don't expect it'll be a massive drop in kill rates, maybe 5% among solo survivor lobbies, less than 2% among SWF if that.
Then you need to work what sort of killer buffs would work in turn.
Personally, I think the best kill buffs that provides the same kind of buff and of the same magnitude, would be increasing killer FoV (via a slider setting) and giving killers hook state indicators. These would be minor info/QoL buffs, that help killers be a little more efficient in their main objective, but crucially don't provide killers who are either already at the top or using cheap tactics as much of an advantage.
The wider FoV would give less experienced killers a better chance at not getting spun out by 360's or survivors hiding on their toes, which very experienced killers can already deal with, while the hook counter wouldn't benefit campers and tunnellers because those players already know who they're targeting.
I'd love hook states, because for the most part I go in trying to 2 hook everyone.
FOV is...eh, tricky.
Honestly, I'd rather see some tweaks to maps and some addon passes, maybe small buffs to Demo, Trapper, Trickster & co.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
When I have time to play I will equip Eruption.
I hope your survivor MMR is low enough that I get to show you every match!
😃
XD
I'm actually getting a feel for survivor now. Only playing solo today, and got about 8 escapes in 15 (and only 1 horrible loss, which was a Spirit hard tunneling at 5 gens, causing someone to DC).
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@Blueberry said:
Not sure where all these unwinnable 3 gen matches are but playing literally 6-8 hours a day I’ve yet to really ever see them. More often than not it’s a skill issue. Just regression perks isn’t winning them the game with a 3 gen and multiple eruption procs means the survivors are getting downed a lot, ie getting outplayed a lot. They also had to mess up in the first place letting the 3 gen happen to begin with anyway.
Ditto. I think I've seen literally 1 in the wild, and that was on someone's stream.
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@stvnhthr said:
When you die why do they not show you the killer's perks without having to spectate to the end? It can't be because of swf because the default is solo que. So for solo players why do they hid the info?
Since broken keys are fuctionless in the game, why not have them reveal killers perks? Maybe one a minute until all four are shown?
Because SWF.
Someone would just call out 'oh, he doesn't have NOED but he does have Blood Warden, so careful' and boom, they know.
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@TheEternalOne said:
Why is matchmaking so broken??? I have been playing 4 months, and one of the months I was traveling, so lets call it 3.... I am CONSTANTLY playing against people who have been playing for years... Why do I get matched up against people who are lvl 100? I would think that should NEVER happen... I get a LOT of lvl 30+... It makes it beyond frustrating when I am new to this game, and really love it.... but cant get matched up appropriately... I have talked to a few players I have gone up against and most have been playing 3 years plus.... Why cant I get matched up against people with my same skills.... I have gone weeks of not playing... within my 4 months that I have owned this game because when I play killer I cant get matched up right and learn how to play better and have fun.... I really hope the devs read these because I doubt im the only one out here feeling this way...
My devotion level is 2 with a level of 52 above it... so i have flipped the 100 mark twice and the people im playing against are devotion level 10 or A LOT higher.... FRUSTRAITING !!!!
As you're new, your MMR is quite volatile. A few wins will make the system think you're pretty good. However, a few losses will drop you fast.
Do you play killer or survivor, by the way?
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318292#Comment_3318292
Okay so then the survivor they quit chasing after 5s gets back on the gen and immediately undoes the generator regression and progresses it again. Congratulations, the killer achieved worse than nothing because the other survivors progressed the other generators and they didn’t get any meaningful regression on this one.
The problem here is that we're all talking about 3 different things as if they were the same.
- Killers who take advantage of a situation survivors put themselves into.
- Killers who play overly defensive and cheesy.
- Killers who take the game hostage.
The first two have counterplay, although you'll generally need a SWF to succeed. The last one is just griefing.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318179#Comment_3318179
Soft capped doesn’t mean good, but good players are among the soft capped players. BHVR also mentioned this on a Q&A stream that there were a small portion of people who had like 3000 MMR and had to be matched with worse players so their queues wouldn’t take literally hours.
BHVR Posts:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/1006825#Comment_1006825
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/1497595#Comment_1497595
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/1259979#Comment_1259979
Ah, okay - that Peanits post is pretty conclusive.
The cap thing is tricky, because it used to be stricter, but people complained that their matches were too sweaty and their queues too long, so they relaxed it.
Heading home shortly, will ask Ryuga about that 150 wins Legion streak you said he did. Very curious if he's got some videos from that era, as that's pretty incredible - considering the only similar streaks I can think of either involved someone deranking or playing much stronger killers.
@oxygen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318258#Comment_3318258
That didn't really seem like what you meant in that case, it seemed more like the concept of "vent games" from how I read it where people have a bad match A and then go into match B with their primary objective being "lets make these people have a bad game too!", going beyond merely trying harder to win.
If it's about people simply putting on stronger stuff after losses then yeah, I have no real problems with that. But that's just not what I associate with terms like "grudge match".
Nah. That's also not the sort of 'vent game' I'm referring to. It's more along the lines of 'okay, well that last game I played a chill Demo with a flan into a comp squad who were jerks, so I'm going back to my stacked Blight'.
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@oxygen said:
I will absolutely blame people for #13, taking frustrations with balance/unrelated players out on someone with no power over game balance or relation to the players that wronged someone is a completely ridiculous thing to do.
The community would instantly improve if everyone that has ever done that with any regularity was prevented from ever playing the game again, no matter if they did it as killer, survivor or both.
I'm more talking about being much less receptive to survivors saying 'well, that perk is OP why hasn't it been nerfed yet lol BHVR only support killers lol'.
@RainehDaze said:
Another thing that seems to be being overlooked:
"Taking out a bad game on the next group" doesn't mean being a complete jerk about everything. It can also just mean "after these really annoying losses, I'm going to play a much stronger build, with stronger addons, and not give chances."
If people think it's petty to respond to a string of losses with trying to win, I'm really confused.
Bingo.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317846#Comment_3317846
MMR is more reliable than rank-based matchmaking was but still inconsistent, and for players above the softcap, they get matched with worse players just off the fact there’s not enough people at their own level for queues to be quick.
Raging_Ryuga did it on his Twitch channel. It wasn’t even a formal winstreak attempt. He just was playing and noticed he hadn’t lost in a while and decided to see how long he could keep it going, but didn’t bother going super all out for it. He did games where he did serious builds, but also games where he ran only Legion’s perks, and games where he did only meme builds, and all of this was on pre-buff Legion. And in doing so ended up getting 150.
I’ve gotten past the point of tilting in DBD to the point it affects gameplay. Even for the things I complain most about on these forums, they don’t tilt me in game, I just think they’re issues that need to be addressed.
Multiple official BHVR posts that state it can be potentially bannable is enough evidence for me. Also a reminder that ban appeals or talking about previous bans and so on is against forum rules. So of course you won’t find much.
I called it whataboutism because people being stupid about defending ragequitting or making dumb complaints about tunneling/whatever doesn’t make things like taking out frustrations on a completely new innocent lobby of players not also stupid.
- Okay...but that's not what we're talking about. 'Good' does not mean 'MMR capped' either.
- Raging_Ryuga did a 150 win streak on Legion with weird perks pre-rework? I literally can't find any mention of this whatsoever...and it's something you'd think people would be all over. Let me see if I can get ahold of him on his Discord when I get back in, because that's amazing.
- Which BHVR posts?
- Okay...but that's not whataboutism.
@BlueHorkew said:
- I mean, survivors also don't know what killer they go against. I don't see the advantage
- What do you want to say by "mean", playing good or trying to tunnel and camp at 4 or 5 gens? Because if it's just giving it your all, well good, its game. You don't have to be an a**
- I don't care honestly, because i am on console, i always like to be on the exit gate, it's like saying goodbye or GGs. I never intended it to be toxic, mostly xD
- Same xD, some survivors really get salty about that, it's kinda funny
- I mean, why wouldn't you xD
- Meh, debatable. I think most killers just use it because it's easy to use. Probably holds you back against very good teams tho, since you would need other perks to get more consistent downs and earlier
- Hmm, again regression is just easier. But honestly i feel like killers get way more good to very good perks than survivor. I always have more fun doing a killer build than a survivor, it feels way more limited
- Yeah, nothing to say
- True, tho i feel like there is an equivalent for killer that i hope you mention in your next post xD
- True
- True
- Stalling a game is so boring, pls survivors just let the game finish when it's over, what do you gain from hiding in corners or making yourself unhoockable and dumb stuff like that. But the current 3 gen stall meta is still the worst
- Hmm, i don't want to comment, except that i think most people just want the game to enjoyable for both parties, and the mentality of us vs them is bad for discourse in the game
- It's fair xD, I will still bring what i want xD, either that be stacked toolbox/medkit or franklin's
- I will actually agree that killers do that way more than survivors, even if most of them only do it after tunneling a survivor out of the game so early he must have gotten like 4K BPs (definitely not salty xD), but honestly i never see survivors do the opposite. Don't know why, but i assume it's because the Killer is assumed to be the Power role and survivor well survives. Even if the meta has most of the time favoured survivors maybe that type of thinking is just inherent.
- Killers can't play in an SWF. Although that would be sort of fun.
- Playing mean - yeah. Tunneling someone out, running strong perks and addons etc. Basically the opposite of playing chill.
- Okay...
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- Because for some reason people like to compare this to camping.
- Generally, I see strong players run 2-3 regression perks, with the goal being to layer them.
- I'd love some better chase perks.
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- I'll be doing the survivor version in due course.
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- Shrug. Both are obnoxious.
- I agree. But it's sort of inevitable.
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- I don't think that killer has ever been considered the power role.
@DashMonsta008XV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318087#Comment_3318087
You sound like a real Yun-Jin
I'm generally a Cheryl or a Feng, actually :)
@SmarulKusia said:
- You are playing a team-coordinated game. Survivors trying to play together to WIN should be an expectation. If you don't find it fun to face people playing as a team and trying hard to win, then perhaps killer is not for you.
- Don't take out your past games on a set of new survivors, same goes for the other side. If you cannot separate the game from reality/emotions then maybe you should take a break from playing tbh.
- As above, people are always going to be #########. Learn to not take it personal and separate a game from reality. People SHOULDNT BM but people will do what they want.
- Just because you keep running into the same survivor, doesn't mean you have to chase that survivor. Lol. It's not like the next survivor is gonna be 100 miles away.
- ? Okay..
I can't be bothered to answer the rest, because it always feels like rinse and repeat of just excuses. If you're gonna play #########, or be a jerk to the next set of survivors just because you had a bad day or a bad game, just own it instead of trying to excuse it. Emotional control and self-reflection is a good skill to have, not just for gaming.
- That's...not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that we need to come loaded for bear because we might be facing an SWF next, even if it seems like overkill against solos.
- I don't think the majority of human beings can do that at all, and even those that can struggle to do it well. Hell, even Otz loses his cool once in a while.
- Shrug. Once again, you can't blame someone for getting irritated at irritating behavior.
- What? Yeah, no. Passing up a chase against someone vulnerable is how you can lose a game right then and there.
An explanation isn't an excuse. And I'm not saying me. I'm saying 'this is what people are like'.
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@RainehDaze said:
Somehow, there is no more depressing outcome than playing Plague, and being reduced to an M1 Killer as everyone still has two health states and decides "no need to cleanse".
(Bonus points for getting sent to the Game at that point; not much to do except get hit by pallets there)
That's more The Game being very annoying as Plague. Even if they are cleansing, it's so easy to LOS her.
I don't mind if people don't cleanse - you can bait out the DH and instadown them. Or just run Thana (it's about the only use for that stupid perk now).
I'm way more scared of the overcleanse meta against her, still not quite sure how to respond to that.
@HugTheHag said:
I can't empathize with that. Plague is really obnoxious to go against, in my opinion. Her having some form of counterplay is good.
Not trying to antagonize you, just, I really don't agree.
It's weird that people don't like facing her - she's both really rare and pretty damn fun to go against. Her mechanics are just different enough.
And...she has plenty of counterplay, which is why I enjoy her. You can try to stagger cleanses, overcleanse or never cleanse.
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@lagosta said:
Players can get removed from the matches and can opt to leave through in-game means as well. No one enjoys being in a 3v1, but I didn't queue for DBD expecting to get a 20-30 minutes war of attrition. If I wanted that, I would play a ranked MOBA instead.
There was no hyperbole there. Playing against a 3-gen eruption/call of brine is just a check for Circle of Healing and map resources management. It's fun and engaging the first few times, but it wears out quickly when every other killer employs the same strategy and perks.
Mm.
You said:
There are some matches just not worth playing. In the 20 minutes it takes to fight that strategy, you can have fun matches against killers who intend to kill and not just kick gens.
If a killer isn't downing people, kicking gens is pointless. Because you'll out repair COB (I'm pretty sure he can't actually damage the gen while you're repairing) and Eruption won't proc unless he's downing people, which - yes - will kill them eventually.
Or if you mean someone who's just taking the game hostage by blasting you off gens as Doctor or something? Because Peanits recently confirmed that this would be bannable, so that's more a 'report the griefer' thing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317881#Comment_3317881
Key word here is should and it assumes MMR is accurate and works. We know it does neither.
I can go from playing against someone like Yerv or Swarm to playing against someone with 50 hours, which happened tonight.
It works more than ranks did.
And...50 hours actually makes weird sense - that's when you're right out of 'new player protection' MMR and probably your most volatile - a few 4ks and the system might think you're a smurf.
And will usually only face bad killers, once their MMR settles.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317846#Comment_3317846
1) Sure. But a bad Survivor is still bad even if they play in a SWF.
3) I generally want to know if I did something wrong. If I upset them in some way, did something they found egregious enough to do that and so that I can avoid doing that in the future.
6) STBFL is great on a lot of Killers. Even if you have to ignore your obsession, I find it's worth it. Bamboozle is almost always welcome. Lethal. Floods of Rage. Nowhere To Hide. There's plenty of good options.
7) And again, that's two slots for info, one or two for regression and zero or one of another perk. There's plenty of options, just not many easy ones.
9) That's why we need to buff Solo Q to as close to SWF-level as possible, ideally at the same time as buffing Killers.
10) I remember doing that years ago, I think I stopped having fun and started being competitive.
11) Most of the people I play against don't really care. They'd have been salty regardless.
12) No, it's still over in 4 minutes. If a Killer wants to slug for the 4K, the last Survivor up is allowed to hide to try to escape.
13) Both sides will complain endlessly. There's just more Survivors than Killers.
15) You'd be surprised at what a single hook can do.
1 - And, once their MMR settles, will probably play against bad killers.
3 - Ah. That's fair, but just be warned about how it might come over.
6 - Bamboozle is a nice perk...but incredibly circumstantial. I can think of maybe 2 maps I'd get regular use out of it. STBFL - I think even solos are starting to figure out how to counter it, and it's very mediocre on M1 killers. To really get it to work, you ideally want a hybrid. Lethal is great, but I find that any info beyond NTH becomes redundant, and FOR's duration is already long enough not to need Lethal. Regardless, that's a handful of options.
9 - Agreed, but aside from letting them see perks in lobby, I have no idea how.
10 - I see it as part of the fun. A rival adds a certain chef's kiss to a game.
12 - Sure. But A. Avoiding AFK crows is still essentially an exploit and B. I'm not talking about that scenario. I'm talking about people dodging AFK crows while stalling the game out.
13 - Shrug. It is what it is. And you cannot deny that killer perks and survivor perks at the very least *have been* approached differently from a balance perspective since release.
15 - Generally...it gets the killer one more hook. Maybe two or three if they camp and survivors play the 'slowly work our way towards the gate' game. I'm not saying do it against an IT3 Myers or a Bubba.
@Halloulle said:
man, you must be playing a different game --- or be in a completely different player pool. Maybe once in ~25 killer matches do I get something that fits one of your 15 points.
That being said, I do have the one or another cent to add.
- Fair enough, you can play every game assuming you face a seal team six swf --- But don't be surprised or do a pikachu face if all the not seal team six players are extremely upset about it and let you know.
- Fair enough, holding a grudge from a previous match against people you've never met and doing to them what you would've liked to do to the previous ones is only human. It's an explanation but neither justification nor excuse. Again, don't do the Pikachu face if people are upset. Hell, the only reason you do that is because you were upset the previous match. Don't tell people to take in stride what you couldn't take in stride.
- Wholeheartedly agree.
- Also true - but then again I'd say accidental "tunneling" is more of an exception rather than the rule....
- Very true & happens a lot. Occasionally I wish I could shake that survivor who is taking me to hook in chase and ask if they are blind or stupid or both. Because they're definitely not new and should know.
- On the fence on that one. There is maybe one in five to ten matches where the outcome would have been completely different if I had stacked gen regression without being completely carried by it. If you need to be carried by stacked gen regression.... maybe losing some matches might be a good idea.... --- that being said; if it takes you a co-op gen worth to get from where you are to that gen in a straight line.... then that's out of your control and regression the only thing that can help with that.
- Bruh. Spies is so underrated ^^ (I'm actually semi serious)
- Fair enough - but there is annoying and obnoxiously annoying. I rather have everyone stay away from the obnoxious ones.
- I wish I could say 'bruh, captain obvious' but.... it's a very valid point.
- Semi agree; hard tunneling someone out is a bit much for my taste ... but they sure are the first choice when it comes to applying pressure....
- True.
- Under the premise that the 3gen was accidental and not the by now probably well known strategy with a set of certain perks..... If a killer plays that way they got it coming that the other side answers in kind.
- Oh, I do understand where they're coming from. But I can still criticise them and I will hold it against them. Knowing why they do what they do doesn't make what they're doing any less bad.
- Very much so.
- I do hope "some" are actually out there. I do that as killer the vast majority of matches (survs need to give me a reason to not go chill mode when I realise I get what I want out of the match regardless) --- but as surv? Once in a blue moon does a killer actually ease up.
Disclaimer: I suppose I am a survivor main - but I do enjoy killer. Actually, the more killer I play, the less sympathy I have for certain people who proclaim that certain strategies are the only way.
- Shrug. It's not their fault - but it's not exactly the killer's fault either.
- Oh, I expect them to be annoyed. But...I guess what I'm saying is that toxicity is a big circle, and that it generally comes from having folks be toxic to you.
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- Keep in mind I'm speaking mostly from my own experiences here. I never tunnel unless I have to - and I still routinely get cussed out for tunneling.
- For some reason, I think a lot expect a free unhook. I have zero idea why else they do it.
- Here's the thing about that. It's point 1 again. It's the same reason I don't run Eruption; it may turn games I'm winning into a stomp, but it's not going to do much against that organized team which will give me hassles.
- It's a great perk - until it isn't.
- Unfortunately, 'obnoxious' generally means 'strongest'. In cases like Knockout then...yeah. That perk is horrible to face in solo and crap otherwise.
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- It's tricky. If you're tunneling on Nurse or Blight then yeah, that's a bit excessive. Especially if you're obviously having no trouble downing folks. But then you get that game where you're Trapper on Eyrie.
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- In my last 250 games, and ton of stream games I've watched, I've seen one person staking out a 3gen from the start and I don't think I've ever seen it in the wild. But yeah, that's basically griefing.
- Good...bad...this isn't really something that you're going to change.
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- I see quite a few who'll ease up if they're stomping, and I see more who'll let the last survivor go or duo get gate.
Just remember, it's not so much about trying to counter every team you face. It's more about setting yourself up not to get spanked by the crazy SWF who might be the lobby you're looking at.
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@Wexton said:
Thought this would be a fun question, I'll go first. I was playing pyramid head on coldwind farm, it wasn't too long into the game at that point. I saw a Nea, and of course I chase her. Hit her once, and she threw down a pallet in front of me. Then this cheeky little Nea teabagged me, so I charged up my ranged attack. And she expected it obviously, which was why she was teabagging. So I aimed slightly to the left, it hit her and she went down.
The Nea died on hook because nobody came to save her, I honestly just love it when survivors teabag and immediately get punished for it. It's hilarious, what are your guy's most satisfying moments?
Like...ever?
Way back when I had maybe 200 hours, I ran a Hag straight into a 6,000 hour TTV playing with his mates, on...I think it was IWOM?
Put down some lucky traps, they were super altruistic and I won.
Of course, this was the game that made me Private my Steam profile, because that TTV essentially directed his few dozen viewers to poop on my wall, calling me a hacker.
It was annoying, but it made the schadenfreude all the sweeter.
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@th3syst3m said:
Seriously? I know it would be unfair to the killers if the match ended as a draw for remaining survivors if someone dc'd or quit or whatever but how is it fair for the remaining survivors? Especially if they're solo? It's equally unfair and kind of ridiculous at this point.
Yeah, it sucks for both.
I'm probably going to struggle to pip now, and the 3 remaining survivors are probably depipping.
I guess the concern is folks deliberately cable pulling in an SWF to force a draw out of a losing game?
@Pulsar said:
I dunno.
I just got slugged for the bleed-out duration because someone DC'd. They said, "Don't let them DC next time."
It's been a weird night tonight.
It...really has. My last game of the evening was a bloodbath - got 1 hook on everyone, somehow turned it around in the postgame thanks to an overly cocky Nea (it's always a Nea, except when it's a Dwight) who got herself hooked trying to show off, and that turned into a 3k somehow.
I got cussed out royally in postgame.
@WesCravenFan said:
I know I am probably in the minority here, but if someone DC's and I have my reason for coming in done (Hits out of Stealth, Hatchets, etc) then I just everyone who wasn't a jerk go.
I am a huge proponent of "Your fun is not my responsibility", but that doesn't mean I actively create misery. I probably get one match a night where I go "Alright, Feng ditched you guys, have a W on me."
I'll 2 hook them, kill as many as I need to pip and let the rest go generally, as long as they are being good sports about the situation.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317831#Comment_3317831
You aren’t playing against comp-level players almost ever. That’s beyond irrelevant. Good players will win the majority of their matches regardless of build because they are just outright better than most of the opposition MMR can give them. It’s why there was stuff like 150 game winstreaks on pre-buff Legion even with meme builds or adepts equipped.
I expect people to not be immature enough to BM. I also expect people to not be immature enough to take out frustrations on unrelated people. Being annoyed? Sure. Taking it out on randoms? Don’t be a child.
Circumstantially bannable. Not always a ban.
Don’t bother with whataboutisms. I think people defending DCing or similar are pathetic. And a lot of the complaints about tunneling/camping are also pretty dumb.
- Zuh? That's...not how literally anything in this game works. No, in a game with SBMM, 'good' is relative. At your MMR, you could get put up against 4 decent solo players, or those same 4 players in an SWF. And SWFs...have, what? 15-20% higher chances of escaping. Skill is important, naturally - but all things being equal, you should be playing against people who you need your best to beat. If you aren't, then you're deliberately playing chill - or the SBMM system pooped the bed.
- 150 game winstreaks on..pre-buff Legion? On a meme build/adept? That sounds like a fascinating watch - where did you see this? I just did a search and the closest I'm finding is Otz on a 50 game streak. Before SBMM. And that was with the nastiest build he could muster at the time.
- You...play the exact same when you're annoyed?
- Again, even if it's circumstantially bannable - wouldn't you find some anecdotal 'I got banned' threads?
- I'm...not sure if you understand what that word means. A counter-example isn't a whataboutism.
@Pulsar said:
1.) You'll find that being in a SWF doesn't mean people are good. Most of the time, you'll be fine and you won't even realize it's a SWF.
2.) While it can be difficult to put the past in the past, it's best to go into each match with a fresh mindset. Taking out your frustrations on a group of completely innocent Survivors simply adds to the problem.
3.) If I get hard tunneled out (or camped), I'm going to stick around and ask why. That's it.
4.) Sometimes, that's true. Most of the time, it is not.
5.) Sure.
6.) People run max regression because they like making things easy. Same reason why people tunnel or camp or gen rush or stack second chance perks. You can usually get away with running one regression perk in most of your matches.
7.) I feel that there are plenty of great info perks. Likewise, you don't even really need them if you know the birds well :)
8.) True.
9.) If the answer is, "Man, I should've been in a 4-man" then there's a game design issue.
10.) Sure. Although, I've found it's better to ignore them. They get pissy and keep following you, thereby contributing nothing to their team.
11.) Okay?
12.) I figure if people slug for the 4K, Survivors are allowed to hide for the one out.
13.) I literally can blame them. They hold grudges against people who didn't do anything wrong.
14.) Sure.
15.) The game is snowball-y. I personally wouldn't take any chances.
- Sure. And similarly, playing killer doesn't mean you are good. I'm saying that SWF get no MMR changes, so you could be playing against 4 decent solos or those same solos in an SWF - which does confer a pretty big statistical advantage. And sure - but that's not relevant.
- I'm not saying 'I do this'. I'm saying 'this is how people are, and you need to keep it in mind'.
- What sort of answer do you expect to get, exactly? 'Oh, I'm very very sorry, what's your Paypal?'. Yes, I'm being facetious, but it really just comes over as sour grapes.
- I'd say it's at least half and half, based on both the QQ I see in postgame and the QQ I see on streams. I think ol' Otz even had a video called 'Tunneling everyone at the same time' based on this.
- -
- That word - most - is the key. And...as I said, there aren't that many attractive options elsewhere. STBFL doesn't work on a lot of killers, really. PWYF? Starstruck? Agitation? Enduring? Either pretty meh or extremely circumstantial.
- There are. But you usually only need 1, maybe 2 with LP. Otherwise you're mostly getting the same info from multiple sources.
- -
- There is, but not likely in the way you think. SWF and solo...you aren't really going to be able to balance around both. So you need to balance around SWF, while helping solos where possible.
- I love a good chase. But if you annoy me, yeah - bye bye.
- You'd be surprised how often I get called sweaty or unskilled for getting two kills in the endgame.
- One is over in 4 minutes, max - and is, at the very least, on the devs rader in a big way. The other can go for 30 minutes. These are not the same thing.
- They aren't. But they are likely willing to hold up precedent when survivors complain that their complaint choice of the week hasn't already been nerfed.
- -
- Eh...giving the killer an extra hook at 1 gen isn't going to snowball the game, or even giving them a few extra hits at the gate. I'm saying that mannered play informs mannered play.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317828#Comment_3317828
That's assuming my teammates are sentient.
Well, that you can't control (well, you can - play in an SWF) - and it's not something the game can be balanced around, any more than it can be balanced around 1 in 3 matches having a survivor suicide or DC.
-
@C3Tooth said:
Because next Sunday (22nd Jan) is our 1st Jan 2023 Lunar calendar. Less than 10 days left.
I also read the 17th, but I couldn't tell you where.
-
@C3Tooth said:
- I cant pick not to play against tunnelers/campers. Yet I dont prepare my loadout to face them.
- My first match against a toxic squad was as Wraith against old OoO, when they can see my aura ALL THE TIME. I went rampage on later teams for a week. But I understood that later teams have nothing to do with toxic squad. I never put rage on later teams despite getting toxic from previous one nowaday.
- BM happens on both side, I would say they need something to feel better about them, just move on.
I dont spend much time to type all of it.
14- Survivor's bloodweb now flooded with useless stuff, its rare to have 2 items in level 40 BW, while there are more chance to get Purple/Red addon also being far cheaper. You may easily see Brown Toolbox Medkit with Green/Purple addon. But dont worry, if I see at least 3 survivors bring items, I would drop my item somewhere incase killer has Franklin.
- You...could though. That is indeed an option you have. About the only option against the potential of a strong SWF bringing their best stuff is bringing your best stuff.
- I don't rage, but I'm definitely less likely to be merciful or bring an 'everyone gets BP' build.
- It does, but...ugh. I've got about 250 matches worth of data, and another 100 I've cobbled together from streams. Survivors are 8x as likely to be BM as a killer, meaning that it's maybe 2x once you factor in the ratio. The reasons why are...well, I've got a theory, but that's another discussion.
14 - Eh...yeah, both sides have addons and items that need a rework. I'm not sure about purps, but I know that I have more green 'medkit charges' and 'faster healing' items than I have yellows.
-
@SmolBlob said:
- If you were actually good at killer, you’d do fine more or less regardless of your build. Also SWF ≠ good.
- Taking out your frustrations from one match on the next is childish. Grow up.
- Read above.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- All I’m gonna say is, there’s a reason genuinely good killer players do just fine even without regression on weaker killers.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Hiding and refusing to work on gens actually IS bannable by the way.
- Taking out game balance frustrations on people who have no say over game changes is childish. Grow up.
- Okay.
- Niceties are nice, but shouldn’t be expected of either side.
Sigh.
- You...didn't actually read what I wrote, did you?
- See point 1. Or go watch the community cups. Against a certain level of coordinated team, tunneling someone out ASAP is essential, as is trying to play for a 3gen. Now, not every SWF is a comp team, but not every killer is a comp killer. Go from there.
- Killers aren't robots. At least until we get a robot killer. It's pretty basic psychology that someone who has a bad experience will attempt to prevent that from happening again. Also - it's weird how the common response to people being butts isn't 'yeah, less people should be butts' and inevitably 'well, killers should just not be annoyed'.
- (12, but I don't know how to change lists) - Find me a single person who's even been anecdotally banned for this. I've looked.
- (13). Things that are unfair are unfair, and expecting people to not be a bit annoyed about it is naïve. Childishly naïve, even. Also - I see a 'I DC/AFK against Eruption' thread on the page right now.
- (15) And yet I see a tunneling/camping thread maybe twice daily. Actually, I could swear I saw a post along those lines from you, recently...
All I'm saying is - don't be toxic and then complain when your game is toxic.
@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
Nice Killer's rulebook for survivors.
Hah.
Hardly.
It's more 'this is what it looks like from the other end'.
The survivor rulebook is a meme, and boils down to 'let me win'. This is more 'don't be a butt, and understand what it can be like to play killer at times'.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317806#Comment_3317806
People don't go for baits.
Can't bumrush against CoB, tells him when we're on it and he'd be throwing to not return.
And yes, if you don't play SWF you are asking to have a terrible time, I know.
If he's not chasing, then yeah - hostage situation.
If he is chasing, then your team should be on those gens like stink on cheese.
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@Ladyinadress18 said:
Hello! I’m looking for ways to goof off as killer. Any ideas on how to handicap yourself? For example:
1) no blink nurse
2) no audio spirit
3) perkless padded jaws trapper
…. Tell me your ridiculous ideas :)
I prefer not to hobble myself at the selection screen - what I'll do instead is try to two hook everyone before killing anyone. I also have this game I play where if I win on a killer, I have to move to the next killer on my list.
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@PowZapBamWoofMeow said:
What happened to the dark atmosphere? The mist? Granted the mist and it’s addons never really had an impact, but still…
Why is BHVR taking this direction with the maps where you can see everything for miles?
I have no idea why this is, but BHVR don't seem sure how to balance the lighting/color schemes in maps.
- Eyrie is absurdly bright, which completely hoses Trapper and Hag.
- Garden of Joy has way too dark an interior on the main structure, even now.
- Borgo...yes, making a map with the same color scheme as auras and scratch marks was a fantastic idea.
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@skylerbound said:
Best advice I have heard was from Swarm. “If the killer is 3 gen locking from the start and you’re in soloQ, just go next”
Literally the best thing I’ve been doing. Had 5 matches in a row when I logged on where the killer had …. The build…. Gave it 2 eruptions then moved on. The rest of my matches were a lot better!
Wait...hang on.
3gen shutdown is one thing, but if you're just being pouty because a killer brought a build you didn't like, that's something else entire.
Why not just play the match out? I see a fair bit of Eruption, and it's definitely not unbeatable.
This is as petty as saying 'well, if a survivor is running Dead Hard I just AFK'.
@[Deleted User] said:
It's pretty unacceptable that BHVR hasn't adjusted Eruption at this point. How hard is it to acknowledge that it's unhealthy and disable it until a solution is found? At no point since last July have they had time to revisit a single perk?
Because:
A. It's far from unbeatable.
B. It's only really strong against solos.
C. They think that the new status icons will help with it.
D. There have been way, way stronger perks that didn't get kill switched.
Imagine if killers did this whole 'well, if I see that perk I don't like I'm just going AFK and pouting' thing? Survivors would struggle to get a single match.
@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317743#Comment_3317743
Its still very good against SWF, if you kick 3 gens you get a 30% regression across the board after a down even if you dont get anyone incapacitated.
If it wasnt good against SWF too nobody would pick it because stomping Solos is not that hard, Ecrutchion or no Ecrutchion.
Eh...
Firstly, if you're getting 3genned as a SWF you've got bigger problems than Eruption.
Secondly, 30% regression for 3 kicks if you down someone is...worse than probably any regression perk that isn't Ruin.
@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317757#Comment_3317757
In what world does empathy counter eruption?🤓
Not hard counter, but I run it for a variety of reasons, and you can often guess fairly accurately when someone's getting close to going down. You need an aura perk if you're playing solo, honestly.
@lagosta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317667#Comment_3317667
There are some matches just not worth playing. In the 20 minutes it takes to fight that strategy, you can have fun matches against killers who intend to kill and not just kick gens.
If a killer is literally just kicking gens, then grats - you've won. Because Eruption needs downs to activate.
Seriously, I get that people find Eruption annoying - but this sort of wall-to-wall hyperbole isn't useful. It's just complaining.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317789#Comment_3317789
So....what exactly are we supposed to do?
Sit in the game and try to keep doing gens where the Killer can hold us forever?
Throw ourselves at the Killer and hope he kills us?
What exactly do you want people to do?
Try baiting him off so that your team can do the gens.
Play in an SWF so you can coordinate.
Bumrush the gen.
If the killer isn't attempting to kill you and just holding you in the game forever - Peanits has already confirmed that this is a hostage situation and thus bannable.
@th3syst3m said:
Mostly that's true, you can't control your team and if they're not pressuring multiple gens the game is over. Pretty sure this was the plan from BHVR so ######### killers continue to play killer so queues aren't so long.
The glare from that tinfoil hat you're wearing is blinding.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
You know something is busted when the only supposed counter to it is “just hang on the hook for 2 minutes to waste his time and hope your teammates do gens and escape”
Even perks like Reassurance and Kinship are only delaying the inevitable, Bubba isn’t an OP killer in most cases but in terms of camping potential he’s just plain unfair
how has it still not been addressed? Surely the devs don’t think being face camped for 2 minutes without any hope of rescue is balanced and fun?
It's...a bit better than it was, but yeah - still brutal.
Bubba needs a rework.
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@HectorBrando said:
No, even the most stacked toolbox barely makes a dent on gen progression.
4x BNPs makes a pretty big dent.
But what's much scarier is 4x commo toolboxes to scaffold onto Hyperfocus chains, combined with Stakeout on a Game offering. Then you add on Fogwise (almost 100% uptime, full vision of the killer in an SWF) and PTS.
I don't think I've ever seen gens go that fast at any point since I started playing.
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@Paternalpark said:
Do you think solo q hud will help this?
Is the game dying?
Are killers just p2w now?
What are your thoughts?
- Not much, but it will help a little.
- Yes, the game is dying. All games are always dying. Hell, we're all dying. Nothing lasts forever, and DbD is already about 65 in 'game' years. But it's still fairly healthy, and while it's inevitably going to slowly decline over time, with spikes and troughs here and there, it's still got a good few years left in it.
- No...not really. Meta is always changing. And hell, a killer/survivor combo costs less than a burger/fries combo so it's not a huge deal with the amount of entertainment this game has given me over the years.
My thoughts are that the game is in a better state than it ever has been, but it's hardly a new title - probably peaked numbers wise around the Nemesis chapter/anni two years ago. However, DbD will remain viable for at least another 3 years.
-
@Batman781 said:
Im not sure what the current escape/kill ratio is but I would say a solid 35% of all 4-kill matches are a direct result of killers being 100% carried by generator regression perks combined with a majority(more than half) of all survivors who refuse to do anything except hide while they are injured and feel the need to heal every time they get hit.
You would be amazed at the number of matches I play where someone has to run across the map to heal after being hit with sloppy butcher every time they are injured. All while the last gen is 90% right next to them and regressing with call of brine and overcharge.
We need to remove everything in the game that speeds up and slow down generators as well as removing the healing mechanic. Once survivors are hit they should remain injured for the duration of the match. This may sound like a survivor nerf but the escape rate will skyrocket as it will force players to learn to be comfortable with playing while injured.
In order to be a top tier survivor a player needs to be about a 1.2 on a 10 scale of natural gaming skill. But to be a top tier killer its close to 50 on a 1-10 scale. The game needs balance in a major way for the simple fact that so many players never learn or improve.
It's not really the fault of killers...ugh. Look at it this way.
There are basically three sorts of matchups.
- Killer versus solos.
- Killer versus casual SWF.
- Killer versus hardcore SWF.
You don't know which you'll be getting. You have no choice in the matter.
If it's the first two, you can generally play chill.
If it's the third, you need to go hard from the start - the best perks, tunneling, slugging, camping, maximum sweat. And you'll probably still struggle.
The problem is that, if it's one of the first two, you'll stomp. And you won't know which it is until it's too late.
If you play chill from the start, and it's #3, by the time you realize, you've already lost. And will get teabagged, gloated at and have people adding you on Steam to laugh at you and call you a coward because you didn't stick around in postgame to get insulted more.
Those are the games you remember - and will take steps in the future to prevent.
Don't blame killers for being sweaty. Blame those poisonous SWFs that go out of their way to make killers miserable, because that's generally what turns killers mean.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317205#Comment_3317205
I mean, you probably have good map awareness and game knowledge from all your hours on various killers. The best survivors are those who know how things look from the killer side. So you'd still put a lot more pressure on me than I'm used to.
I try to keep in mind that they aren't necessarily better at the game, but I can't help being a little skittish.
I'm actually less nervous about isolated P90+, as I've faced a few who were really bad. Somehow, 4 P40 feel more threatening to me. Feels more legit as good players.
One thing I find, playing both roles, is that it's a lot harder to be mean on either of them.
Like...I know how miserable it can be to get 2 hooks in a game as killer because the map played itself or how miserable it can be to get hard camped or tunneled out and depip because you never got a chance to play.
@MeanieDeeny said:
I do sometimes. It depends on my mood, but I figure the more toolboxes, they faster they’re going to try to bust out gens and I don’t find that a fun match.
But other times idc, I just make a mental note to find the toolbox survivors first and not give them time to use it.
Toolboxes on their own...meh. That often results in them tunnel visioning gens and 3genning themselves.
Toolboxes plus HSFP in an SWF? Those games are evil.
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@HugTheHag said:
No.
I'll dodge :
- TTVs (gives me performance anxiety)
- Agressive names ('fix hitboxes', 'nurse = no skill', those interesting fellows)
- Full flashlights (I do have Lightborn and Mad Grit and I do know how to counter them, but they're generally gonna be exhausting and I can't be bothered)
- Several high prestige levels (with high for me being 30+). I know it's not equal to skill, but I've got less than 200h on killer and I'm not looking for people with that many hours into the game on one single role. I'll play the game out if there's only one really high prestige, because worst case scenario there are 3 other players.
Honestly, unless it's like P100 (which screams hacker) I don't care about prestige.
For instance, my Cheryl and Feng have a pretty high prestige and I've got fewer hours on survivor than you do on killer - because I put a lot of 'overflow' BP into them when I'm playing killer.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317149#Comment_3317149
It simply comes down to the fact that robbing one player of the ability to even play the match, as a strat, is not healthy for the game.
Agreed - but it's a little deeper than that.
At the bleeding edge of the game, for instance the community cup, tunneling is the only way to get any kills sometimes (seriously, watching that was such an eye opener - even with multiple things tilted in their favor, killers routinely got 1-2 kills and that was with the best perks, a decent map and tunneling/camping/slugging out the wazoo).
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316850#Comment_3316850
I know killers like to say every match is a 4-man SWF seal team 6 and oh god they’re so strong yadayada but what are the actual odds of facing a comp SWF? Less than 5% of all players are top MMR, at least half of them must play killer exclusively. It would just seem super rare to face Ayrun’s team. And he doesn’t do as well when he solo’s (neither does Otz).
...Literally nobody says that. And you know it.
Why strawman?
What 'killers' are saying is that every match has the potential to be a monster SWF who'll send you to Garden of Joy with a full 'melt the gens and see the killer for the entire match' build, and that if you don't go in expecting one and play accordingly, by the time you realize that you're facing one, you've already lost.
@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317164#Comment_3317164
True !
Or like... I've been accused of "mmr manipulation" for just saying I don't care too much about losing as killer and that I'm not gonna sweat to secure kills if I'm outmatched. Which is. The point of the system ? Adjusting according to what you can and can't manage while playing normally.
Competitiveness makes me sad, haha.
I'm pretty competitive, but I also won't super sweat unless it's a sweaty game. I'll generally at least try to ease up if I start stomping - but if I've learned one thing over Bonechill, it's that you need to go into matches hard.
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317134#Comment_3317134
Its weird that whenever I say I play chill and prefer to stay at mid MMR. There is someone telling me to play Fornite or Minecraft (which I dont play both) if I want to play casual.
Im like...then why do you complain when survivors put you through challenge?
'Challenge' isn't the issue.
Sometimes SBMM poops the bed (generally lobby dodges, or it could be SWFs smurfing down their MMR) and puts you up against a monster SWF with quadruple your hours played on their weakest member, who'll send you to an awful map and then gloat at you incessantly before constantly trying to add you on Steam/get their viewers to do the same.
Anonymous mode was a frigging godsend, I swear.
Matches like this definitely stick with you, and - at least for me - definitely make me less likely to play/build chill for a while.
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@Ginnypig said:
Do you change lobby? I do.
Toolboxes? No.
The only time I'll dodge a lobby is:
- Suspicious cosmetics, especially legacy stuff. If your profile is anonymous or hidden and you've got those, there's enough of a chance that you're a hacker that I don't fancy the risk.
- Full 'barcode' names - nothing against you, but you're not going to enjoy my ping and I'm not going to enjoy yours.
- Comp or extremely evil looking SWF and I'm not running a strong killer or build. I'm looking to play chill, I'm guessing you aren't.
- See above, but 3-4 TTVs. Nope. Too many bad experiences.
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@Ghoste said:
Well according to Peanits' post, it would seem the "3-gen til the server shuts down" strat would be bannable. But tbf he said that back in 2019 and things might have changed. The server shutting down after an hour is a recent change if I'm not mistaken.
Also I just wanna say I find DBD incredibly unfun when a match lasts 30+ minutes, and I know I'm not the only one. This strategy definitely needs to be addressed.
Agreed - but I don't see how.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
Killer is the strongest it has ever been. It doesn't need buffs.
Sweeping buffs? No.
Some maps badly need to be reworked, as they can be sodding miserable.
Otz did a pretty comprehensive video on which killers need buffs/reworks/addon passes, and I agree with most of them.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S3BDARRD3WIH/sadako.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UFBSU3EUXZOX/saw.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OB1EE6HFBJR2/trapper.jpg
While I agree yes it's definitely more of a challenge to win with these killers considering certain maps and very good cordinated teams can make it very hard it's still possible to win with these killers.
Uh...nobody.
Nobody says that.
What people are saying is that you're going to struggle to beat an organized team at around the same skill level, particularly on a bad map.
-
@StickyB said:
Now I'm not saying that this is going to be a 100% guarantee that you wont get tunnelled after this but these are the things that'll make me tunnel as a killer (maybe even camp more than I should)
- Taking the hit after being unhooked, ESPECIALLY if your savour isn't injured. You're giving me the choice between someone stage 2+ who I can down in one hit vs someone who could be fresh who I need to down in two hits, it's pretty simple maths. This is probably the number one cause for me tunnelling someone and it's completely preventable on the survivors side. DONT TAKE THE HIT.
- Bringing me to an unfavourable map, this one might sound a bit entitled but I'm more likely to sweat and not even give a hatch if I see someone bring me to Ormand or Erie. Those maps are too large at the moment and makes pressuring gens too hard when they're on the other side of the map. And the only other way to pressure gens without being there, it pressuring a kill. Whether that means people have to come take hits so it's not a 1v3 or or they need 2 people for the unhook, sometimes it's simply to viable to leave the unhooked person if it means I'm pulling multiple people off of gens. However, if I get taken to these maps by random, I'll probs just play for fun since I'm most likely not getting a 4k.
- Running towards gens, so many times will I see someone unhooked and they'll beeline it towards the gens instead of staying away and running off with the person who unhooked them, if I can down you in my gens, I will take it as that's free pressure.
- If you're in comms, and you know the last 1-2 gens are going to pop, don't pop them. This will make me think I have more time then I do and is a very good strategy to give yourself some breathing room. Save then pop the gens. I'm not gonna be camping if I think I have 4 gens remaining and I can defend a couple.
I think this is about it, what makes you tunnel more or less?
TLDR:
- Don't take BT hit
- Don't bring map offerings
- Stay away from the 3 gen
- Don't activate endgame too quickly
- Yup. This is asking to be tunneled. But you're also telling me you have DS.
- Yeah, it's a little bit entitled.
- Eh.
- Also eh.
Here's the thing about tunneling and camping.
It's like eating a puppy.
If you're starving, only a puritan would tell you not to. But if you walk into a restaurant and the first thing you do is ask for the puppy menu, then that's a you problem.
The trick is that, after you face a strong SWF, you start going into every game expecting one.
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@PowZapBamWoofMeow said:
i love a game where there’s lot of chases, gens are popping , killer getting hooks, and maybe 1-2 ppl make it out the gates. A fun balanced match. Doesn’t always happen.
I enjoy facing Myers. But that infinite addons makes the match pointless because it becomes nothing more than a game of hide and seek (solo q) especially when 2 ppl have been Mori’d.
I hate to complain but that’s really the only killer addon I hate facing.
when I play killer I NEVER use Mori’s. They are just unfun esp to survivors and they take the challenge out of the game.
Eh...the only really awful Myers addons to face are TSP and to a lesser extent, Tombstone.
IT3 has some huge drawbacks - mostly, if he gets it before there's like 2 gens left, you're doing it wrong.
Be observant, play defensive and starve him of stalks. If you're trying to loop him, don't. Run, and keep LOS blockers between you and him.
Otherwise, if he gets it, you'll need to be very smart about looping. And if he decides to camp, just finish gens and get out. You'll never get that unhook.
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@healsoflove718 said:
I wanna d/c anytime I get a killer that can 1 shot you, it's super annoying & not fun.
Shrug. And I want to DC every time someone sends me to Badham or Garden.
Exposed killers are pretty mediocre - the only one that I loathe is TSP Myers.
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@WarzMyth said:
So, I main Pyramid Head and every game i get gen rushed and its really starting to ######### with me. my current build is dead man's, pain res, lethal, and bbq. what should i change with my build that REALLY works with pyramid head?
A few tricks.
- Drop BBQ and replace it with IAE. BBQ doesn't really work well on PH.
- OR - drop LP and BBQ and pick up Discordance and Devour Hope (PH is incredible at protecting hexes with his trail).
- OR - drop PR/DMS and pick up Call of Brine and Nowhere to Hide. PH lives and dies on info.
- I'm not as in love with Eruption as some people are - it tends to make games I'm winning into stomps, and hard games against SWF...it doesn't do much.
- Always, always try to cage people. If they're looping, put down trails at junctions. When you hook someone, try to put down trails where people will run.
- Defend hooks. You don't need to camp, but you don't need to make them freebies either. PH can always get a trade.
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@SkeletalElite said:
In the past, players using hostage strategies on doctor has been deemed bannable. Wherein players constantly shock people in madness 3 while regressing gens rapidly, usually with ruin/skill check perks. Then sitting in a 3 gen and refuse to chase anyone, only downing people who refuse to move.
See:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R4Y09EKQAN1P/image.png
Recently a similar strategy has popped up with the knight. Players will equip CoB/OC/Eruption and sit in a 3 gen constantly using guard hunts to force survivors off the gens and regressing them quickly with perks, only downing people who do not run away.
Here is a video of the strategy:
The goal of this strategy is to delay until the survivors give up and let you win or until the end of match 1 hour timer hits and the game instantly ends.
It seems clear to me based on what the developers have said about hostage doctor that this is indeed bannable, as it shares a lot of the same characteristics. Purely stalling the game using their power and perks, only downing people who refuse to leave the gens, and doing it for a very long time. However, some people disagree with this assessment.
So my question for the developers is:
I know this might go unanswered for a while because BHVR is likely off for the holiday, but I want to know. Can I be banned if I use this strategy? Should I bother reporting people who I play against who are doing this, or would I be wasting the support team's time?
Thanks
edit: updated image of peanits post
It's a grey area. It really depends on how they play.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316866#Comment_3316866
Survivors GOT 'buffs for camping/tunneling'; Basekit BT. But that's not enough, no. They will whine and scream until the developers make them literally immune to damage. Give an inch, and they take a mile.
Of course, with basekit BT came weaponizing it to bodyblock Killers from chasing unhookers; You know, the literal thing Survivors whine Killers never do. And, of course, Survivors then whine that they were 'tunneled' and demand tunneling punishments, nerfs, and more Survivor buffs to compensate for playing badly, I mean being 'tunneled'.
No, Survivors don't need MORE buffs 'if tunneling stays'. This is literally Survivors bodyblocking and trying for unsafe unhooks, then complaining when they get smacked down, as if their bad plays are a flaw in the game.
Accept that your opponent can play to win as hard as you can as a Survivor. Stop demanding Killers get kneecapped for 'my vague and entirely subjective fun!' 🙄
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316922#Comment_3316922
Give Survivors bonus BP for being camped. Make something like 'Your wriggling distracts the Killer form his true goals'. The longer camped, the more BP gained.
Eh...it's not that simple.
The problem is that those buffs/anti tunneling/camping mechanics can be completely negated by some killers.
@healsoflove718 said:
Unfortunately, tunneling/camping isn't an issue I think BHVR will ever address again b/c it's too complicated. Too many killers already complain that it's survivor sided and since most of them don't have the actual skill to chase, they are just happy with how things are for them. But, a lot of my friends stopped playing dbd b/c it wasn't fun getting camped/tunneled in like 70% of matches in solo survivor queue.
All that really needs to be done is fix the handful of killers that can bypass BT. Bubba's double sweep hit, Clown's trick etc.
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@Dionysus42 said:
What would you like to see? Personally I think an exhaustion effect that lasts until the next health state loss could be interesting, it wouldn't punish being hit multiple times but would be a big negative that can't be ignored without just removing survivors from the game for 30 seconds.
As folks have pointed out:
- Make it block the gen instead of an incap.
- No substitute that keeps Eruption viable will be enough, because it's the current '100% this and only this is what is making me lose games' killer meta scapegoat.
Want to see what I mean?
@SkeletalElite said:
15 second gen block
So...make it worse than the original Eruption by every metric - a perk that almost nobody used.
Yeah, as I was saying.
@BlueRose said:
Personally I want something that keeps it as a slowdown perks. I think a gift of pain or than like effect would be pretty good. If a survivor is near a eruption gen when goes off they get infected with a debuff that slows thier repair speed by some percentage for x amount of time. This way it will hit a survivor no matter if they are soloQ or swf and it's not as oppressive as incap since they will still be allowed to repair but at a slower speed than before.
I know someone ppl want entity block but I think there are already to many perks that blocks gens already. Why run a gen blocking eruption that requires you to kick gens when you can easily run pain res + DMS or deadlock? I would prefer something different tbh.
Because Deadlock is erratic and can sometimes work as a survivor perk. And PR+DMS is a two perk combo that also requires the use of a finnicky RNG SH system.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316817#Comment_3316817
Actually i just thought of another idea, may or may not be better, but at least unique:
Performing the Damage Generator action on a generator applies Eruption:
- Highlights all affected generators in yellow.
- The next time a survivor enters the dying state by any mean, all affected Generators explode and are set on fire, removing the highlighted aura. Eruption applies an immediate -10% progression penalty and immediately start regressing.
- Any survivor repairing a generator when it explodes screams and applies the incapacitated effect for 10 seconds.
- Generators that are on fire are unable to be repaired and regress 100/150/200% faster (.5 charges per second) (perk tiers).
- Generators that are on fire have a (insert color here) aura shown to survivors. Survivors can perform an "extinguish" action on them for 5 seconds to remove the fire.
- 30 second cooldown.
This makes it so the survivor is incapacitated for a short time, just enough to keep them off the gen for a bit, and give the killer a little time to get to the gen to prevent them from immediately removing the fire on a gen, but it doesn't allow them to basically make the survivor completely useless. It also shows the aura to the survivors so they know which gens are on fire and that they need to put out to start repairing again.
Cute, but...that's more complicated than some killer mechanics. It would A. be overcomplicated, B. take a crapton of development resources and C. be complained about incessantly.
@Pulsar said:
Probably a shorter Entity block.
If it's shorter than 30 seconds, the perk would basically be junked. Almost nobody ran it at a 16 second incap+regression.
Honestly, I don't even know if a 30 second block would be worth it.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
It seems BHVR is trying to get their goodwill with the community so low that it goes into the negatives and wraps around to zero.
These will come back, but for now having a rare item is sort of a reward for participating in the event.
@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316832#Comment_3316832
I don't think it did
It did. The zombie one.
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@JediWithASniper said:
As a PSA, I’m a survivor main that plays a bit of killer from time to time. I have wanted basically this exact update for quite some time as far as bringing solo queue’s quality up a bit. However, this will be a massive buff for survivors, and I think it’s effect may be being underestimated. I predict that killers are about to start experiencing mostly 1k’s due to this buff. So the question is, how will killer’s be buffed to compensate?
Uh...no, it won't.
I don't even think it'll be that big a buff for solos, to be honest. Communication isn't the core problem. Coordination is, and finding people who won't pout and suicide/DC because they got downed.
There are plenty of things about the game that needs fixing on the killer end - stupid hook spawn logic, the Garden infinite, unhookable spots on Badham, genrush squads - but these changes aren't anything to worry about at all.
@Mandy said:
I'm not expecting things to change hugely tbh, I think QoL will be improved for our solo queue players, I don't think it will impact the kill rates too much however. We will of course be monitoring and seeing how much it impacts and whether changes would need to be made, on either side - as we always do.
Honestly, one thing that solo desperately needs is to be able to see everyone's perks in the lobby, so you don't end up with 4x Kindreds and 3x CoH's because nobody spoke the same language.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316414#Comment_3316414
No it's not. Patrolling the gens is not bannable. You sound like the killers who think "looping" is an exploit.
Uh...yeah, it is?
You can go and check the dev post on it. It was fairly recent too.
It's a grey area if they've locked it down as a strategy to bait survivors in, but if they're just doing it to stall the game out by making it impossible to die or do gens, then that's absolutely bannable.
@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316886#Comment_3316886
Technically speaking stalling the game to the limit kills the survivors, so it is progressing the game.
The doctor example was very specific because he can spam keep people in tier 3 madness so they cant do gens because they are incapacitated. Patrolling a 3 gen does not stop survivors from teying to do gens.
Technically speaking, BHVR makes the rules for their game, and they say that trying to stall games to force survivors to DC/hit the timer is bannable.
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@CompleatBeet said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QWDEW5JP2PZS/my-image-282-29.png
Honestly just delete Hag and Doctor please nobody would care.
Uh, I'd care.
I love playing against Hag and I love playing as Hag. She's my first main.
I enjoy Doctor too.
Oh, and I get cussed out for playing Dredge, Artist, Myers, Ghostface, Nurse and Pig constantly.
I swear, I could make an entire bowl of potato salad with the salt from this post.
@SilverShamrock said:
Ghostface, and basically any stealth killer would get my vote.
As for non-stealth killers, Legion easily gets my vote with Plague being a close second. I don’t remember ever having an enjoyable match against either one. I don’t have to make it out to consider a match enjoyable either. Their mechanics are just not fun in my opinion.
Stealth killers are probably one of the most fun thing in this game, with a hard camping T3 Myers or Ghostface, or a TSP build excepted.
It's one of the few times it actually feels scary.
Legion...yeah, but they are what they are.
I love playing against Plague. Just overcleanse if she bothers you, that is honestly too effective against her.
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@zerayan said:
Hey heres he hard but true meaning ur game sucks more and more du finally something against tunneling and camping it isnt that hart to do something against it, like a timer stop on hook if the killer still stays near u or like the cage from Pyramidhead teleport the hooked one away , but in this state this game sucks rly hard nearly every round a tunneling killer and/or a camping killer, if u are serious to ur self no one has fun with it in this state .... and the penalty for leaving a game sucks too my game crashed hey a penalty it crashed multiple times hey more and higher penaltys ....
Uh...
Okay, not quite sure what I read here.
- Some killers are too good at camping and/or tunneling folks off hook.
- Bubba, Billy & co. need a rework, because these are killers that aren't much fun to play against a good team unless you camp and tunnel.
- Clown's <redacted> trick to bypass Endurance needs a fix.
- However, if you want high MMR/tourney gameplay, you aren't going to win against a strong team on a strong map unless you tunnel someone out.
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315002#Comment_3315002
Making the other side feel miserable just one reason why. Something more fun for both sides should be viable. Even most killers probably feel bad using these stragedies but because they're the best options to win so they use them.
If you watch this game played at the highest level - and that's with some pretty severe handicaps on survivors (limited items, perks, killer sided map), replace 'best' with 'only'.
And in this case it's winning against other killers on points - by getting 1-2 kills.
Yes, not every team you face is a crazy SWF - but the possibility that the next one might be, and by the time you know you've already lost...yeah, best to play hard.
@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314917#Comment_3314917
I love how whiny survivors call removing the easy target early (An intelligent play) 'brainless' because they get violently screechy when Killers don't 12 hook in the genrush + 500000 second chance perk META.
Every Survivor who whines about tunneling is saying the same thing: Genrushing (Survivors winning ASAP) is OK, because Survivors win. Tunneling (Killers winning ASAP) is evil, because Survivors lose.
That's all it is: Survivors expect Killers to play sub-optimally because 'WhAt AbOuT oUr FuN!?' but the second the Killer points out 'We can't 12 hook in games under 5 minutes', the reply is 'Get gud'. 😂
Because Killer fun does not matter. Only Survivor fun is expected. 🙃
Part of this comes down to how stupidly survivor BP/emblem gain works.
The 'distraction' BP/points you gain are pathetic. If you're chased from the start with LP, and then tunneled, you're getting 8k BP max and depipping, even if the others finished 5 gens while this went on.
If you get camped, it's worse - because you get literally nothing for staying on the hook, and you may as well just suicide if it's a solo game.
That needs to be fixed.
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@Mew said:
got sandbagged 2 games in a row today
first game a meg dropped down from the top of Chapel and blocked the one way doorway going out... against a plague... when someone had kindred...
second game i was death hook and a zarina led the killer to the boon for 0 reason. like, there was literally nothing around the boon.
Ahaha I had a wonderful survivor game on Sunday where I was being hard tunneled, ran to the only pallet I had available - and David and Meg were hiding there, right at the pallet.
It was a 3 Stooges reenactment as nobody knew whether they wanted to drop a pallet, vault a window, bodyblock or run away. I got killed, but it was a genuinely funny moment.
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@IWantCandys said:
Now and then.
The problem is, I intentionally play in a way that I don't kill anyone. I just want 8 hooks and then let everyone go. But since I don't farm but play seriously until I have 8 hooks, the survivors don't know that. And when we're in endgame and I didn't have a kill, there were times when some stayed no matter how hard I tried to make them go. I do not know why either. Maybe because I never slug, camp or tunnel (because I don't want to kill anyone and try to avoid people committing hook suicide or dc) and that's why people seem to enjoy the matches with me and want to gift me kills when I haven't had any whens the gates are open. It´s cute xD
I do it myself from time to time too. Just not that often. In solo queue, every escape counts, because the lower your MMR, the worse and more frustrating the matches.
That's why I have to like the killer very much in order for me to do that. There once was a Billy. He really struggled (which I can understand, I suck with billy myself) and yet he played totally fair. I was so impressed that I just wanted to make him happy. He did the same what I always do as a killer, he tried to get me to leave and didn't wanted to sacrifice me, but I stayed with him until the timer ran out.
After that we had a very sweet chat. I will never forget you, Billy !
Interesting.
Don't you find that you've then crashed your MMR, and are facing players so new that it becomes boring?
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@stvnhthr said:
Reporting them does not do any good, so that is off the table. What is the proper response to cheats? The number of cheaters is way down, but I still get one or two a week. In game what is the proper response? If you dc you get punished, so it seems like cheaters just trap you in game. Could you make a dc option which can be used for cases of cheating?
Reporting them absolutely does work, but BHVR - I think - bans in waves.
The problem with an option like that would be that everyone would just use it when they want out of a match/to BM.
If you don't want a DC penalty, your best bet is to basically park somewhere, facing a wall and go get a cup of coffee. They'll get bored.